Hi Folks!

Every year I post a special offer here on rec.woodworking to show my
appreciation for all your help and support. This year is no
different.

TS-Aligner Fall 2007 10% Mail-in Rebate Offer!

Buy a Genuine TS-Aligner product and related accessories from any
valid woodworking tools and equipment dealer between September 1, 2007
and December 31, 2007 and receive a 10% factory direct rebate. Any
dealer will do, even if they have never sold TS-Aligner products
before. Just have your favorite dealer give me a call or send me
email. I'll provide them with everything they need to facilitate your
purchase.

Follow this link for details:

http://www.ts-aligner.com/announcements.htm

Please let me know if you have any questions or comments. If you
think the group would benefit from the answer please feel free to post
your question/comment here. I will keep track of this thread and
answer promptly.

I will be posting reminders to this thread throughout the promotion to
make sure that everyone who visits the
wreck gets a chance to see it.


Thanks,
Ed Bennett



http://www.ts-aligner.com
Home of the TS-Aligner

"Ed Bennett" wrote in message

TS-Aligner Fall 2007 10% Mail-in Rebate Offer!

fwiw soap box

Ed, you're a good guy with a great product, but I gotta tell you, I've
personally reached the point where I see "mail in rebate" and I immediately
run the other way.

No way in hell I will ever buy _anything_ using that method of promotion.

/fwiw soap box

Sorry ... It ain't your fault, but you don't often get the opportunity to
tell it to the horse's mouth.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/8/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Swingman wrote:
"Ed Bennett" wrote in message

TS-Aligner Fall 2007 10% Mail-in Rebate Offer!

fwiw soap box

Ed, you're a good guy with a great product, but I gotta tell you, I've
personally reached the point where I see "mail in rebate" and I immediately
run the other way.

No way in hell I will ever buy _anything_ using that method of promotion.


Me neither. Not knocking the product but that's why I buy much more stuff from
Best Buy than Circuit City. An offered rebate is ignored.... the price had
better be right to begin with or I ain't inclined to buy.

I've been screwed by big companies like Western Digital because I bought TWO
instead of one hard drive (isn't that the point?). Wel, screw them... and
that's my feeling toward any rebate offer I read.

There are better ways to promote a product.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

So, am I correct in my understanding that the negative aspect of
rebates is a bad experience with a poorly administered rebate
program? If you really received the discount that you expected then
you wouldn't have such a bad opinion of rebates?

The pricing thing is actually a rather difficult challenge. As a
manufacturer, I can't dictate retail pricing and terms to dealers.
All I can do is offer incentives for them to participate. If I knock
10% off of their wholesale pricing, they're not likely to knock 10%
off of the retail price. If they do, it's viewed as a penalty, not a
benefit.

You say that there are better ways, please share them!

Thanks,
Ed Bennett


http://www.ts-aligner.com
Home of the TS-Aligner

On Sep 3, 4:24 pm, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com
wrote:
Swingman wrote:
"Ed Bennett" wrote in message

TS-Aligner Fall 2007 10% Mail-in Rebate Offer!

fwiw soap box

Ed, you're a good guy with a great product, but I gotta tell you, I've
personally reached the point where I see "mail in rebate" and I immediately
run the other way.

No way in hell I will ever buy _anything_ using that method of promotion.

Me neither. Not knocking the product but that's why I buy much more stuff from
Best Buy than Circuit City. An offered rebate is ignored.... the price had
better be right to begin with or I ain't inclined to buy.

I've been screwed by big companies like Western Digital because I bought TWO
instead of one hard drive (isn't that the point?). Wel, screw them... and
that's my feeling toward any rebate offer I read.

There are better ways to promote a product.

--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Ed Bennett wrote:
There are better ways to promote a product.


How is it that companies like Best Buy can offer competitive pricing to Circuit
City while at the same time avoiding the ubiquitous rebates that CC offer? I
don't know how they do it but I do know that they do it all the time.

To respond to your reply to the other poster, yes, the negativity associated
with rebates is directly related to poorly administered programs. They make you
hop through the hoops... if you forget to include one little requirement you're
out of the running... there are unreasonable restrictions. "One to a
household"? What the hell difference does it matter how many households are
involved? Isn't the whole idea to sell MORE items? Or would you rather it
remain "one to a customer"?

But let's say you jump through the hoops, cross all the t's and dot all the i's.
Then they just claim they never received it. Please remail it. However, since
the original proof of purchase was in the first envelope and the company won't
accept copies, that become a joke. However, the joke's on the original company
as I no longer buy their products. They only get one chance to rape me.

You had to ask these questions? You've never tried to get a rebate yourself?
You must lead a sheltered existence. I don't know anybody who hasn't been
screwed by a rebate offer.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in message

How is it that companies like Best Buy can offer competitive pricing to
Circuit
City while at the same time avoiding the ubiquitous rebates that CC offer?
I
don't know how they do it but I do know that they do it all the time.

Also why I will not buy most electronic items, like printers, from CC. If
the "mail in rebate" is a good thing for the customer, fine ... let the
retailer pass on immediate savings to the customer, and send in the rebate
themselves.

I would be willing to bet that's what you're seeing in many instances at BB
(although still not my favorite retailer for electronic goods).

Even with shipping, I often get a better deal online ... Web 2.0, doncha
know!

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/8/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Sep 3, 5:02 pm, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com
wrote:
Ed Bennett wrote:
There are better ways to promote a product.

How is it that companies like Best Buy can offer competitive pricing to Circuit
City while at the same time avoiding the ubiquitous rebates that CC offer? I
don't know how they do it but I do know that they do it all the time.

I can't comment on how multi-billion dollar outfits like Best Buy and
Circuit City make their marketing, pricing, and promotional
decisions. I suspect that the process is significantly different from
mine ;-) I'd bet that the monthly mortgage payment doesn't figure
into the formula.

To respond to your reply to the other poster, yes, the negativity associated
with rebates is directly related to poorly administered programs. They make you
hop through the hoops... if you forget to include one little requirement you're
out of the running... there are unreasonable restrictions. "One to a
household"? What the hell difference does it matter how many households are
involved? Isn't the whole idea to sell MORE items? Or would you rather it
remain "one to a customer"?

Yes, I have gone through all the hoops on a number of occasions to get
the rebate. It is a PITA to be sure. There are no hoops with my
rebate program. The form is included in the box for every TS-Aligner
product shipped to dealers. I just want to make sure that you
actually purchased the product(s) and that you are a real person.
Just fill out the name and address (without which you cannot receive
the check) and mail it back within a month of the purchase. I
personally receive the mail and process the payment. The name and
address get filed away forever - never to be used for spam or junk
mail.

Contrary to popular belief, a lot of rebate programs aren't about
increasing sales; they generally have ulterior motives. Often, they
are collecting demographic information. It's cheaper to pay end users
to fill out the form than to pay a market research firm to hunt down
the info sometime later. So, "one to a household" makes sense. My
ulterior motive involves building a dealer channel.

But let's say you jump through the hoops, cross all the t's and dot all the i's.
Then they just claim they never received it. Please remail it. However, since
the original proof of purchase was in the first envelope and the company won't
accept copies, that become a joke. However, the joke's on the original company
as I no longer buy their products. They only get one chance to rape me.

Won't happen with me. But, I understand why people might believe that
it would.

You had to ask these questions? You've never tried to get a rebate yourself?
You must lead a sheltered existence. I don't know anybody who hasn't been
screwed by a rebate offer.

Yes, I have, on several occasions. Once they decided not to award the
rebate. But, it didn't bother me all that much because I wasn't
actually betting my financial future on receiving the rebate. The
rebate just prompted me to take a closer look at the product that I
wasn't paying much attention to. It added weight the decision
process. I didn't feel as if I had been ripped off because the
product didn't cost any more than it normally did. The rebate would
have been gravy. No real regrets.

Ed Bennett


http://www.ts-aligner.com
home of the TS-Aligner

On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 19:02:02 -0400, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote:

Ed Bennett wrote:
There are better ways to promote a product.


How is it that companies like Best Buy can offer competitive pricing to Circuit
City while at the same time avoiding the ubiquitous rebates that CC offer? I
don't know how they do it but I do know that they do it all the time.

To respond to your reply to the other poster, yes, the negativity associated
with rebates is directly related to poorly administered programs. They make you
hop through the hoops... if you forget to include one little requirement you're
out of the running... there are unreasonable restrictions. "One to a
household"? What the hell difference does it matter how many households are
involved? Isn't the whole idea to sell MORE items? Or would you rather it
remain "one to a customer"?

But let's say you jump through the hoops, cross all the t's and dot all the i's.
Then they just claim they never received it. Please remail it. However, since
the original proof of purchase was in the first envelope and the company won't
accept copies, that become a joke. However, the joke's on the original company
as I no longer buy their products. They only get one chance to rape me.

You had to ask these questions? You've never tried to get a rebate yourself?
You must lead a sheltered existence. I don't know anybody who hasn't been
screwed by a rebate offer.

They invest the rebate money on the spot market and the earned
interest makes up fot the discount to you. Plus any they can avoid
paying out is gravey in their pocket.
Made it simple for myself...I don't shop Circuit City ever, rarely
Office Depot. If I have to buy I pay full price over a rebate or wait
til there is an instant rebate somewhere else.
I have always been a fan of HP equipment until they bought Compac.
Having been royaly screwed by Compac on a lap top problem they knew
about in advance now HP is off my list! (helped my attitude some when
HP lost their ass in than purchase).
The old addage screw me once good for you screw me twice bad for me!

"Ed Bennett" wrote in message
ps.com...
So, am I correct in my understanding that the negative aspect of
rebates is a bad experience with a poorly administered rebate
program? If you really received the discount that you expected then
you wouldn't have such a bad opinion of rebates?

The pricing thing is actually a rather difficult challenge. As a
manufacturer, I can't dictate retail pricing and terms to dealers.
All I can do is offer incentives for them to participate. If I knock
10% off of their wholesale pricing, they're not likely to knock 10%
off of the retail price. If they do, it's viewed as a penalty, not a
benefit.

You say that there are better ways, please share them!


The problem with a rebate regardless of whether you get it fulfilled or not
is that it takes a minimum of 2-4 weeks to receive. Typically this goes
up to 3 months. The poor performance by many of those responsible for
delivering the rebate has left a very bad taste in the consumers mouth.
Foe me, the rebate IS NOT an incentive to buy a product. If the product I
buy also has a rebate then that is a plus, but certainly not a reason to buy
that product.
Basically the customer has to work to get his hopeful discount.

The better way that you want to know about would be the same one that the
automobile manufacturers use. They advertise "X" dollars cash back and this
translates to immediate price reductions to the consumer. The dealer simply
provides proof of the purchase to the manufacturer and is reimbursed the
discount.
You could simply request the copy of the invoice from the distributor or
reseller and give him back the 10% of the sale price or credit his account.
The customer comes out ahead and really and truly you are here to serve the
customer, not the other way around.

"Leon" wrote in message

You could simply request the copy of the invoice from the distributor or
reseller and give him back the 10% of the sale price or credit his
account.
The customer comes out ahead and really and truly you are here to serve
the
customer, not the other way around.

There, Ed, is your answer on how to approach your "sale" in a manner that
does not make the thoughtful, informed buyer feel like he is being scammed.

Well put, Leon!

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/8/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

This works great if the dealer can't live without your products.
That's not exactly my situation ;-). I don't think there's much hope
getting them to cooperate.

On Sep 3, 5:04 pm, "Leon" wrote:

The better way that you want to know about would be the same one that the
automobile manufacturers use. They advertise "X" dollars cash back and this
translates to immediate price reductions to the consumer. The dealer simply
provides proof of the purchase to the manufacturer and is reimbursed the
discount.
You could simply request the copy of the invoice from the distributor or
reseller and give him back the 10% of the sale price or credit his account.
The customer comes out ahead and really and truly you are here to serve the
customer, not the other way around.

"Ed Bennett" wrote in message
ps.com...
So, am I correct in my understanding that the negative aspect of
rebates is a bad experience with a poorly administered rebate
program?

You got it! My definition of a poorly administered rebate program is any
program that doesn't give me my rebate as quickly and painlessly as they
charge my credit card.

I have been burned so often that if given a choice I usually select the
rebateless product.

-- Mark

Ed -- Reading more of the thread it seems the word "rebate" bothers lots of
us.

Why not call it a "Cash Thank-You for Buying from a Dealer"? ;-)

-- Mark

I appreciate the feedback. Thanks. Can you elaborate a little? What
exactly is the problem with a mail-in rebate?

So, the goal here is to provide some sort of benefit to dealers and
customers at the same time. I want to reward existing dealers with
more business. I want to attract new dealers by creating some direct
demand. And, I want to reward customers with some savings on their
purchase. A "sale" depends on participation of existing dealers.
They aren't generally very motivated because the retail discount
doesn't translate to much at their wholesale pricing. And, it does
nothing to attract new dealers. Besides, it tends to devalue the
product in the eyes of the customer. If you have an idea which is
better than the rebate then by all means share!

Thanks,
Ed Bennett


http://www.ts-aligner.com
Home of the TS-Aligner

On Sep 3, 1:11 pm, "Swingman" wrote:
"Ed Bennett" wrote in message
TS-Aligner Fall 2007 10% Mail-in Rebate Offer!

fwiw soap box

Ed, you're a good guy with a great product, but I gotta tell you, I've
personally reached the point where I see "mail in rebate" and I immediately
run the other way.

No way in hell I will ever buy _anything_ using that method of promotion.

/fwiw soap box

Sorry ... It ain't your fault, but you don't often get the opportunity to
tell it to the horse's mouth.

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/8/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Ed Bennett" wrote in message
I appreciate the feedback. Thanks. Can you elaborate a little? What
exactly is the problem with a mail-in rebate?

So, the goal here is to provide some sort of benefit to dealers and
customers at the same time. I want to reward existing dealers with
more business. I want to attract new dealers by creating some direct
demand. And, I want to reward customers with some savings on their
purchase. A "sale" depends on participation of existing dealers.
They aren't generally very motivated because the retail discount
doesn't translate to much at their wholesale pricing. And, it does
nothing to attract new dealers. Besides, it tends to devalue the
product in the eyes of the customer. If you have an idea which is
better than the rebate then by all means share!

"Mail in rebates" are _specifically_ designed/used to sucker that part of
the population who are indeed suckers.

I'm not a sucker, I want to know what the selling price is on the BIG tag up
front, not in the fine print; and I want to pay that price and walk out the
door, done deal, and to hell with a "mail in rebate".

In many retail establishments these days you have to read the fine print to
find out that what you see on the big, easily readable price tag is ONLY the
price should you choose to be a sucker and jump through hoops to go through
the "mail in rebate" scam/promotion.

If you can sell if for $100 and make money, the only reason for the "$25
mail in rebate" scam at $125 is to play the odds and the sucker.

This is one of the most despicable practices in modern retailing and, if it
can't be outlawed, it should be shunned by anyone with any sense until it
becomes obvious to those who use the scam that it will no longer work.

Unfortunately, 50% of everyone who walks in the door is, by definition,
below average IQ, and the "mail in rebate" scammers continue to get away
with it.

Personally, I would not knowingly tar myself with that brush were I in the
retail business, but that's just my opinion.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/8/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote in message
"Mail in rebates" are _specifically_ designed/used to sucker that part of
the population who are indeed suckers.

I'm not a sucker, I want to know what the selling price is on the BIG tag
up
front, not in the fine print; and I want to pay that price and walk out
the
door, done deal, and to hell with a "mail in rebate".

The seller is also banking on a lot of customers buying the product because
it is such a great deal with the rebate, but then they forget, lose the
paperwork and no money is ever sent. Good deal for the manufacturer.

I've bought products with rebates, but not because of them. If it is only a
buck or two, I don't bother with it. Staples has a good program where you
can send the info on line. I've done that with success a couple of times.

Ed Bennett wrote:
I appreciate the feedback. Thanks. Can you elaborate a little? What
exactly is the problem with a mail-in rebate?


1. The mail in rebate tells me first that the product is over priced as
the manufacturer is willing to send me the rebate.

2. I have to pay sales tax on the price initially paid.

3. I then have to gather the necessary rebate forms, fill out an
envelope and pay for postage and mail the rebate request in hoping
something doesn't get lost/trashcanned along the way.

4. Somebody at the other end has to process the rebate and send the
check to me.

5. After the usual three to six months time lapse, all the while tying
up my money, I have to waste more time cashing the check (providing I
even get it).

If the item were priced at the point of the original price minus the
rebate to begin with, I would have saved the cost of the extra tax and
postage and a number of people would have save a lot of time and wasted
energy.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

On Sep 3, 5:40 pm, Nova wrote:

1. The mail in rebate tells me first that the product is over priced as
the manufacturer is willing to send me the rebate.

Actually, I'm willing to pay you to do some work for me. I want you
to buy it through a dealer. Ideally, this would be a dealer that I
haven't made much progress with. It proves to him that there is some
demand.

2. I have to pay sales tax on the price initially paid.

You mean the full retail price, right? Sorry, not much I can do about
that!

3. I then have to gather the necessary rebate forms, fill out an
envelope and pay for postage and mail the rebate request in hoping
something doesn't get lost/trashcanned along the way.

The form comes in the box with the Aligner. You don't have to mail it
in unless you want the money.

4. Somebody at the other end has to process the rebate and send the
check to me.

That would be me.

5. After the usual three to six months time lapse, all the while tying
up my money, I have to waste more time cashing the check (providing I
even get it).

If it's worth your while.

If the item were priced at the point of the original price minus the
rebate to begin with, I would have saved the cost of the extra tax and
postage and a number of people would have save a lot of time and wasted
energy.

But if I don't get any value for the rebate then it's not worth my
while either. It's not about giving away money. If I were just
looking for a way to discount the products then I wouldn't need to
involve dealers.

Ed Bennett


http://www.ts-aligner.com
Home of the TS-Aligner

"Ed Bennett" wrote in message
ps.com...
On Sep 3, 5:40 pm, Nova wrote:

1. The mail in rebate tells me first that the product is over priced as
the manufacturer is willing to send me the rebate.

Actually, I'm willing to pay you to do some work for me. I want you
to buy it through a dealer. Ideally, this would be a dealer that I
haven't made much progress with. It proves to him that there is some
demand.


Unless I am getting the product and ending up with more money than before I
buy the product I am not being paid by you to do some work for you. I am
simply getting a partial refund.


2. I have to pay sales tax on the price initially paid.

You mean the full retail price, right? Sorry, not much I can do about
that!


If you have the dealer handle the rebate up front, the sales tax would be on
the sales price less the rebate.


3. I then have to gather the necessary rebate forms, fill out an
envelope and pay for postage and mail the rebate request in hoping
something doesn't get lost/trashcanned along the way.

The form comes in the box with the Aligner. You don't have to mail it
in unless you want the money.

Otherwise you pay more than you should be paying.


4. Somebody at the other end has to process the rebate and send the
check to me.

That would be me.

Regareldss of who is refunding us with a rebate, we have to go to the store,
buy the product, PLUS fill out a form, mail that form, and wait a lot
longer than the date purchased to eventually receive the refunded rebate.


5. After the usual three to six months time lapse, all the while tying
up my money, I have to waste more time cashing the check (providing I
even get it).

If it's worth your while.

If you have not noticed, your end users are trying to tell you that it is
not worth our while.


If the item were priced at the point of the original price minus the
rebate to begin with, I would have saved the cost of the extra tax and
postage and a number of people would have save a lot of time and wasted
energy.

But if I don't get any value for the rebate then it's not worth my
while either. It's not about giving away money. If I were just
looking for a way to discount the products then I wouldn't need to
involve dealers.

Actually Ed, you stated quite the contrary in the beginning of the thread
with your opening sentence,

Every year I post a special offer here on rec.woodworking to show my
appreciation for all your help and support. This year is no
different.

Now you are claiming no value from the rebate, I thought it was all about
appreciation. ;~)

On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 15:28:05 -0700, Ed Bennett
wrote:

I appreciate the feedback. Thanks. Can you elaborate a little? What
exactly is the problem with a mail-in rebate?

I think one difference between what you're doing and the typical
rebates is it sounds like you are handling the rebates yourself -
though I don't see a link to the actual rebate form in your link.
Usually rebates on stuff bought at retail use a fullfillment center,
whose sole job is to look for any reason to deny the rebate. I've
heard they actually get rated by the percentage of rebates they
reject, so there is tremendous pressure on them to find, or make up,
any reason to deny.

I've never ever personally not received a rebate, though I haven't
really done that many. I don't see what's so difficult about reading
instructions and sending the thing in within a month. I did recently
send in some pretty large rebates on Pentax camera stuff. On the
forum I read people used to glow about the handling of their rebates.
Then they changed fullfillment centers and I've heard nothing but
complaints since. For a company that has had perpetual rebates for a
very long time (every few months the rebates end and they announce a
new set of pretty much exactly the same rebates) it's just very bad to
be having bad word of mouth. And it makes you wonder if the word of
mouth was good about your rebates will be handled well, why did they
change centers?

So if I were you, I'd make it clear I'm personally making sure the
rebates are handled properly. And I would have the rebate form up on
my website as a pdf. I would make sure I have the absolute minimum of
stuff the customer has to fill out and fine print on the form. It's
of course necessary to have reasonable limitations, but go through the
rebates looking for reasons to give the money not reasons to deny it.


-Leuf

Hi Leuf,

Yep, I'm doing it myself. The form comes with the product. It only
requires name and address. I'm not looking for ways to avoid paying
rebates. It's simple, I just want people to buy from dealers.

Ed

On Sep 3, 8:35 pm, Leuf wrote:
On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 15:28:05 -0700, Ed Bennett
wrote:

I appreciate the feedback. Thanks. Can you elaborate a little? What
exactly is the problem with a mail-in rebate?

I think one difference between what you're doing and the typical
rebates is it sounds like you are handling the rebates yourself -
though I don't see a link to the actual rebate form in your link.
Usually rebates on stuff bought at retail use a fullfillment center,
whose sole job is to look for any reason to deny the rebate. I've
heard they actually get rated by the percentage of rebates they
reject, so there is tremendous pressure on them to find, or make up,
any reason to deny.

I've never ever personally not received a rebate, though I haven't
really done that many. I don't see what's so difficult about reading
instructions and sending the thing in within a month. I did recently
send in some pretty large rebates on Pentax camera stuff. On the
forum I read people used to glow about the handling of their rebates.
Then they changed fullfillment centers and I've heard nothing but
complaints since. For a company that has had perpetual rebates for a
very long time (every few months the rebates end and they announce a
new set of pretty much exactly the same rebates) it's just very bad to
be having bad word of mouth. And it makes you wonder if the word of
mouth was good about your rebates will be handled well, why did they
change centers?

So if I were you, I'd make it clear I'm personally making sure the
rebates are handled properly. And I would have the rebate form up on
my website as a pdf. I would make sure I have the absolute minimum of
stuff the customer has to fill out and fine print on the form. It's
of course necessary to have reasonable limitations, but go through the
rebates looking for reasons to give the money not reasons to deny it.

-Leuf

In article .com,
Ed Bennett wrote:
I appreciate the feedback. Thanks. Can you elaborate a little? What
exactly is the problem with a mail-in rebate?
Ed,

I believe you've gotten a few replies as to the perceived problems. You
also have the real problems: misplaced the receipt (probably #1
problem), tossed the box (and thus proof of purchase), set the thing
aside to fill out later, and missed the deadline.

I'm with the majority of the folks who responded; if I'm going to buy
it, I'm going to buy it and realize that I have maybe a 25% chance of
getting the rebate.

I learned my lesson with CompUSA -- lots of crap free after rebate, so I
bought a bunch, even though I didn't have a real need. Spent $150, got
maybe $30 back, and had $120 worth of crap that I couldn't even dump on
eBay, because so many other people had the same idea. No more rebates
for me.

How about compromise? Do an online rebate. Let people scan in the
receipt and email it to you or upload it to a web site? Yeah, you might
lose a little with the dishonest people, but chalk that up to a
marketing cost and you'll do fine. Keep the mail-in for the people that
can't figure out a computer.

Costco offers rebates, and I *will* go after those, because the process
is so quick and easy online. (Technically, my wife fills them out, so
they are *very* easy to do, but I believe you can even get an instant
credit back on your AmEx Costco card.)

Regards,
-Steve in Banks, OR
http://woodworking.bigelowsite.com

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

On Sep 4, 11:23 am, (Stephen Bigelow)
wrote:
Ed,

I believe you've gotten a few replies as to the perceived problems. You
also have the real problems: misplaced the receipt (probably #1
problem), tossed the box (and thus proof of purchase), set the thing
aside to fill out later, and missed the deadline.

So, with the rebate program being administered by me, I figure that
these problems can be worked out as they crop up. None of the issues
that you mention are insurmountable. I'm not looking for excuses to
avoid paying people. I'm looking to incent people to buy my products
through dealers.

I'm with the majority of the folks who responded; if I'm going to buy
it, I'm going to buy it and realize that I have maybe a 25% chance of
getting the rebate.

Your chances improve considerably if you put your name and address on
the form, include a copy of your receipt, and mail it in to me! Proof
of purchase is necessary to avoid fraud. Name and address make it
easier for me to send the check.

I learned my lesson with CompUSA -- lots of crap free after rebate, so I
bought a bunch, even though I didn't have a real need. Spent $150, got
maybe $30 back, and had $120 worth of crap that I couldn't even dump on
eBay, because so many other people had the same idea. No more rebates
for me.

Well, this does seem like a completely different sceneraio.

How about compromise? Do an online rebate. Let people scan in the
receipt and email it to you or upload it to a web site? Yeah, you might
lose a little with the dishonest people, but chalk that up to a
marketing cost and you'll do fine. Keep the mail-in for the people that
can't figure out a computer.

Sure, no problem. I don't mind the scan/email thing. Works for me.
Unless you want your money by PayPal, I would still need to get a name
and address.

Costco offers rebates, and I *will* go after those, because the process
is so quick and easy online. (Technically, my wife fills them out, so
they are *very* easy to do, but I believe you can even get an instant
credit back on your AmEx Costco card.)

I just need proof of purchase and a means to provide payment. The
"mail-in" thing seemed to be the easiest thing to me. I'll modify the
web site to include the scan/email method.

Ed Bennett


http://www.ts-aligner.com
Home of the TS-Aligner

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 14:56:55 -0700, Ed Bennett
wrote:

My 2 cents worth is to offer the purchaser, proportionate to the
amount spent on your items, a coupon code that will give him a
'dollars off' amount applied to his next purchase with the dealer. So
if I spend $200. on a Bennett product at Homer's Tool Outlet, Homer
will give me $20 off my next purchase from him and so on up and down
the price range of your products.
ROY!

"Ed Bennett" wrote in message

that you mention are insurmountable. I'm not looking for excuses to
avoid paying people. I'm looking to incent people to buy my products
through dealers.

Ed,

Be assured that no offense was intended, or to insinuate that you were doing
any "scamming" yourself.

That notwithstanding, the connotation of the phrase "mail-in rebate" does
seem to incite strong opinions/feelings in more than one of us. g

Anyway, good luck, understand your predicament, hope lots of folks take you
up on your "dealer incentive" program, and look forward to using your
product.



--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/8/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Stephen Bigelow" wrote in message
I learned my lesson with CompUSA -- lots of crap free after rebate, so I
bought a bunch, even though I didn't have a real need. Spent $150, got
maybe $30 back, and had $120 worth of crap that I couldn't even dump on
eBay, because so many other people had the same idea. No more rebates
for me.

You made a bad business decision. You got your rebate, you got your free
stuff, you got exactly what the seller intended. You have no complaint
against the manufacturer or the seller. What you did not get was the
opportunity to make a quick buck. Can't blame the rebate program for that.

In article ,
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

"Stephen Bigelow" wrote in message
I learned my lesson with CompUSA -- lots of crap free after rebate, so I
bought a bunch, even though I didn't have a real need. Spent $150, got
maybe $30 back, and had $120 worth of crap that I couldn't even dump on

You made a bad business decision. You got your rebate, you got your free
stuff, you got exactly what the seller intended. You have no complaint
against the manufacturer or the seller. What you did not get was the
opportunity to make a quick buck. Can't blame the rebate program for that.

No, the intent wasn't to dump on eBay, the intent was to truly get them
"free after rebate". The thought of dumping on eBay came after I
realized I got screwed by the rebate company (and hence CompUSA for
choosing the rebate company) and the thought of recouping some of my costs.
This was close to 10 years ago now, but even back
then, I truly didn't need 150 blank 3.5" floppies for $50. $50 minus a
$50 mail-in rebate sounded like a deal. Turns out the 25 pack for $5
would've been a better deal, seeing as how I never received my $50
rebate. At that point in my life, I was making 1/10th of what I make
now, and losing that $120 hit hard. (Anybody need any floppies? Still
got two boxes of 50, unopened.

Ya missed my point, though, in that rebates just tend to leave a bad
taste in my mouth. I'll still buy something with a rebate, but the
value of the rebate doesn't in any way factor into whether or not I'll
buy the product. Caveat: if the rebate is greater than about 25% of the
cost, I'll shy away.

Bringing this back to the topic, the 10% rebate on the TS Aligner
wouldn't make me run out and get one. If I had been planning on buying
one sometime, it might make me go out and get one during the rebate
period. Having been a lurker here since 1996, I was always under the
impression that if I really wanted one, I could buy directly from Ed.

Knowing that I could now convince a dealer to sell me one, honestly, I'd
still try to buy directly from Ed first, rebate or not.

lurk mode on

--
Regards,
-Steve in Banks, OR
http://woodworking.bigelowsite.com

Ed Bennett wrote:

| Every year I post a special offer here on rec.woodworking to show my
| appreciation for all your help and support. This year is no
| different.

I've noticed. I haven't bought, but I've noticed - and appreciated
your willingness to offer people a break on what I understand to be a
good product.

| Buy a Genuine TS-Aligner product and related accessories from any
| valid woodworking tools and equipment dealer between September 1,
| 2007 and December 31, 2007 and receive a 10% factory direct rebate.
| Any dealer will do, even if they have never sold TS-Aligner products
| before. Just have your favorite dealer give me a call or send me
| email. I'll provide them with everything they need to facilitate
| your purchase.

If I decide I'm going to buy a tool, it's because I've decided that I
have a current (and nearly always, also a future) need and the tool in
question meets or exceeds my needs. I don't want to be a participant
in a sales and marketing process - I just want the tool so I can put
it to work.

Like many others, I don't trust rebate offers. At this stage of the
game I've come to believe that rebates provide the offerer with
(another) opportunity to clutter my mailboxes with wastepaper and spam
and to sell contact info to others, and I won't even consider putting
first class postage on an envelope and going to Kinko's to make a copy
of my receipt unless the rebate is large compared to the dollar and
time cost involved.

Having said that, I'll follow on with the info that large rebates (the
kind I just said might prompt me to take action) set off my internal
alarms that a product is normally grossly overpriced to begin with,
and that I need to be wary of the manufacturer/vendor involved.

Worse for you, if I decide I need your product at a time when it's not
on sale, I'm likely to feel resentful because I know I'm paying 11+%
more than if it were discounted 10%. I realize that this isn't
completely rational - but that doesn't change the fact that I'm not
feeling good about either you or your product, even though I've never
met you or tried your product.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/