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TS-Aligner Fall 2007 Promotional Offer!
Hi Folks!
Every year I post a special offer here on rec.woodworking to show my appreciation for all your help and support. This year is no different. TS-Aligner Fall 2007 10% Mail-in Rebate Offer! Buy a Genuine TS-Aligner product and related accessories from any valid woodworking tools and equipment dealer between September 1, 2007 and December 31, 2007 and receive a 10% factory direct rebate. Any dealer will do, even if they have never sold TS-Aligner products before. Just have your favorite dealer give me a call or send me email. I'll provide them with everything they need to facilitate your purchase. Follow this link for details: http://www.ts-aligner.com/announcements.htm Please let me know if you have any questions or comments. If you think the group would benefit from the answer please feel free to post your question/comment here. I will keep track of this thread and answer promptly. I will be posting reminders to this thread throughout the promotion to make sure that everyone who visits the wreck gets a chance to see it. Thanks, Ed Bennett http://www.ts-aligner.com Home of the TS-Aligner |
TS-Aligner Fall 2007 Promotional Offer!
"Ed Bennett" wrote in message TS-Aligner Fall 2007 10% Mail-in Rebate Offer! fwiw soap box Ed, you're a good guy with a great product, but I gotta tell you, I've personally reached the point where I see "mail in rebate" and I immediately run the other way. No way in hell I will ever buy _anything_ using that method of promotion. /fwiw soap box Sorry ... It ain't your fault, but you don't often get the opportunity to tell it to the horse's mouth. :) -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 8/8/07 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
TS-Aligner Fall 2007 Promotional Offer!
Swingman wrote:
"Ed Bennett" wrote in message TS-Aligner Fall 2007 10% Mail-in Rebate Offer! fwiw soap box Ed, you're a good guy with a great product, but I gotta tell you, I've personally reached the point where I see "mail in rebate" and I immediately run the other way. No way in hell I will ever buy _anything_ using that method of promotion. Me neither. Not knocking the product but that's why I buy much more stuff from Best Buy than Circuit City. An offered rebate is ignored.... the price had better be right to begin with or I ain't inclined to buy. I've been screwed by big companies like Western Digital because I bought TWO instead of one hard drive (isn't that the point?). Wel, screw them... and that's my feeling toward any rebate offer I read. There are better ways to promote a product. -- Mortimer Schnerd, RN mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com |
TS-Aligner Fall 2007 Promotional Offer!
I appreciate the feedback. Thanks. Can you elaborate a little? What
exactly is the problem with a mail-in rebate? So, the goal here is to provide some sort of benefit to dealers and customers at the same time. I want to reward existing dealers with more business. I want to attract new dealers by creating some direct demand. And, I want to reward customers with some savings on their purchase. A "sale" depends on participation of existing dealers. They aren't generally very motivated because the retail discount doesn't translate to much at their wholesale pricing. And, it does nothing to attract new dealers. Besides, it tends to devalue the product in the eyes of the customer. If you have an idea which is better than the rebate then by all means share! Thanks, Ed Bennett http://www.ts-aligner.com Home of the TS-Aligner On Sep 3, 1:11 pm, "Swingman" wrote: "Ed Bennett" wrote in message TS-Aligner Fall 2007 10% Mail-in Rebate Offer! fwiw soap box Ed, you're a good guy with a great product, but I gotta tell you, I've personally reached the point where I see "mail in rebate" and I immediately run the other way. No way in hell I will ever buy _anything_ using that method of promotion. /fwiw soap box Sorry ... It ain't your fault, but you don't often get the opportunity to tell it to the horse's mouth. :) --www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 8/8/07 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
TS-Aligner Fall 2007 Promotional Offer!
So, am I correct in my understanding that the negative aspect of
rebates is a bad experience with a poorly administered rebate program? If you really received the discount that you expected then you wouldn't have such a bad opinion of rebates? The pricing thing is actually a rather difficult challenge. As a manufacturer, I can't dictate retail pricing and terms to dealers. All I can do is offer incentives for them to participate. If I knock 10% off of their wholesale pricing, they're not likely to knock 10% off of the retail price. If they do, it's viewed as a penalty, not a benefit. You say that there are better ways, please share them! Thanks, Ed Bennett http://www.ts-aligner.com Home of the TS-Aligner On Sep 3, 4:24 pm, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote: Swingman wrote: "Ed Bennett" wrote in message TS-Aligner Fall 2007 10% Mail-in Rebate Offer! fwiw soap box Ed, you're a good guy with a great product, but I gotta tell you, I've personally reached the point where I see "mail in rebate" and I immediately run the other way. No way in hell I will ever buy _anything_ using that method of promotion. Me neither. Not knocking the product but that's why I buy much more stuff from Best Buy than Circuit City. An offered rebate is ignored.... the price had better be right to begin with or I ain't inclined to buy. I've been screwed by big companies like Western Digital because I bought TWO instead of one hard drive (isn't that the point?). Wel, screw them... and that's my feeling toward any rebate offer I read. There are better ways to promote a product. -- Mortimer Schnerd, RN mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com |
TS-Aligner Fall 2007 Promotional Offer!
Ed Bennett wrote:
There are better ways to promote a product. How is it that companies like Best Buy can offer competitive pricing to Circuit City while at the same time avoiding the ubiquitous rebates that CC offer? I don't know how they do it but I do know that they do it all the time. To respond to your reply to the other poster, yes, the negativity associated with rebates is directly related to poorly administered programs. They make you hop through the hoops... if you forget to include one little requirement you're out of the running... there are unreasonable restrictions. "One to a household"? What the hell difference does it matter how many households are involved? Isn't the whole idea to sell MORE items? Or would you rather it remain "one to a customer"? But let's say you jump through the hoops, cross all the t's and dot all the i's. Then they just claim they never received it. Please remail it. However, since the original proof of purchase was in the first envelope and the company won't accept copies, that become a joke. However, the joke's on the original company as I no longer buy their products. They only get one chance to rape me. You had to ask these questions? You've never tried to get a rebate yourself? You must lead a sheltered existence. I don't know anybody who hasn't been screwed by a rebate offer. -- Mortimer Schnerd, RN mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com |
TS-Aligner Fall 2007 Promotional Offer!
"Ed Bennett" wrote in message ps.com... So, am I correct in my understanding that the negative aspect of rebates is a bad experience with a poorly administered rebate program? If you really received the discount that you expected then you wouldn't have such a bad opinion of rebates? The pricing thing is actually a rather difficult challenge. As a manufacturer, I can't dictate retail pricing and terms to dealers. All I can do is offer incentives for them to participate. If I knock 10% off of their wholesale pricing, they're not likely to knock 10% off of the retail price. If they do, it's viewed as a penalty, not a benefit. You say that there are better ways, please share them! The problem with a rebate regardless of whether you get it fulfilled or not is that it takes a minimum of 2-4 weeks to receive. Typically this goes up to 3 months. The poor performance by many of those responsible for delivering the rebate has left a very bad taste in the consumers mouth. Foe me, the rebate IS NOT an incentive to buy a product. If the product I buy also has a rebate then that is a plus, but certainly not a reason to buy that product. Basically the customer has to work to get his hopeful discount. The better way that you want to know about would be the same one that the automobile manufacturers use. They advertise "X" dollars cash back and this translates to immediate price reductions to the consumer. The dealer simply provides proof of the purchase to the manufacturer and is reimbursed the discount. You could simply request the copy of the invoice from the distributor or reseller and give him back the 10% of the sale price or credit his account. The customer comes out ahead and really and truly you are here to serve the customer, not the other way around. |
TS-Aligner Fall 2007 Promotional Offer!
"Ed Bennett" wrote in message I appreciate the feedback. Thanks. Can you elaborate a little? What exactly is the problem with a mail-in rebate? So, the goal here is to provide some sort of benefit to dealers and customers at the same time. I want to reward existing dealers with more business. I want to attract new dealers by creating some direct demand. And, I want to reward customers with some savings on their purchase. A "sale" depends on participation of existing dealers. They aren't generally very motivated because the retail discount doesn't translate to much at their wholesale pricing. And, it does nothing to attract new dealers. Besides, it tends to devalue the product in the eyes of the customer. If you have an idea which is better than the rebate then by all means share! "Mail in rebates" are _specifically_ designed/used to sucker that part of the population who are indeed suckers. I'm not a sucker, I want to know what the selling price is on the BIG tag up front, not in the fine print; and I want to pay that price and walk out the door, done deal, and to hell with a "mail in rebate". In many retail establishments these days you have to read the fine print to find out that what you see on the big, easily readable price tag is ONLY the price should you choose to be a sucker and jump through hoops to go through the "mail in rebate" scam/promotion. If you can sell if for $100 and make money, the only reason for the "$25 mail in rebate" scam at $125 is to play the odds and the sucker. This is one of the most despicable practices in modern retailing and, if it can't be outlawed, it should be shunned by anyone with any sense until it becomes obvious to those who use the scam that it will no longer work. Unfortunately, 50% of everyone who walks in the door is, by definition, below average IQ, and the "mail in rebate" scammers continue to get away with it. Personally, I would not knowingly tar myself with that brush were I in the retail business, but that's just my opinion. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 8/8/07 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
TS-Aligner Fall 2007 Promotional Offer!
"Leon" wrote in message You could simply request the copy of the invoice from the distributor or reseller and give him back the 10% of the sale price or credit his account. The customer comes out ahead and really and truly you are here to serve the customer, not the other way around. There, Ed, is your answer on how to approach your "sale" in a manner that does not make the thoughtful, informed buyer feel like he is being scammed. Well put, Leon! -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 8/8/07 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
TS-Aligner Fall 2007 Promotional Offer!
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in message How is it that companies like Best Buy can offer competitive pricing to Circuit City while at the same time avoiding the ubiquitous rebates that CC offer? I don't know how they do it but I do know that they do it all the time. Also why I will not buy most electronic items, like printers, from CC. If the "mail in rebate" is a good thing for the customer, fine ... let the retailer pass on immediate savings to the customer, and send in the rebate themselves. I would be willing to bet that's what you're seeing in many instances at BB (although still not my favorite retailer for electronic goods). Even with shipping, I often get a better deal online ... Web 2.0, doncha know! :) -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 8/8/07 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
TS-Aligner Fall 2007 Promotional Offer!
"Swingman" wrote in message "Mail in rebates" are _specifically_ designed/used to sucker that part of the population who are indeed suckers. I'm not a sucker, I want to know what the selling price is on the BIG tag up front, not in the fine print; and I want to pay that price and walk out the door, done deal, and to hell with a "mail in rebate". The seller is also banking on a lot of customers buying the product because it is such a great deal with the rebate, but then they forget, lose the paperwork and no money is ever sent. Good deal for the manufacturer. I've bought products with rebates, but not because of them. If it is only a buck or two, I don't bother with it. Staples has a good program where you can send the info on line. I've done that with success a couple of times. |
TS-Aligner Fall 2007 Promotional Offer!
On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 15:28:05 -0700, Ed Bennett
wrote: I appreciate the feedback. Thanks. Can you elaborate a little? What exactly is the problem with a mail-in rebate? I think one difference between what you're doing and the typical rebates is it sounds like you are handling the rebates yourself - though I don't see a link to the actual rebate form in your link. Usually rebates on stuff bought at retail use a fullfillment center, whose sole job is to look for any reason to deny the rebate. I've heard they actually get rated by the percentage of rebates they reject, so there is tremendous pressure on them to find, or make up, any reason to deny. I've never ever personally not received a rebate, though I haven't really done that many. I don't see what's so difficult about reading instructions and sending the thing in within a month. I did recently send in some pretty large rebates on Pentax camera stuff. On the forum I read people used to glow about the handling of their rebates. Then they changed fullfillment centers and I've heard nothing but complaints since. For a company that has had perpetual rebates for a very long time (every few months the rebates end and they announce a new set of pretty much exactly the same rebates) it's just very bad to be having bad word of mouth. And it makes you wonder if the word of mouth was good about your rebates will be handled well, why did they change centers? So if I were you, I'd make it clear I'm personally making sure the rebates are handled properly. And I would have the rebate form up on my website as a pdf. I would make sure I have the absolute minimum of stuff the customer has to fill out and fine print on the form. It's of course necessary to have reasonable limitations, but go through the rebates looking for reasons to give the money not reasons to deny it. -Leuf |
TS-Aligner Fall 2007 Promotional Offer!
Ed Bennett wrote:
| Every year I post a special offer here on rec.woodworking to show my | appreciation for all your help and support. This year is no | different. I've noticed. I haven't bought, but I've noticed - and appreciated your willingness to offer people a break on what I understand to be a good product. | Buy a Genuine TS-Aligner product and related accessories from any | valid woodworking tools and equipment dealer between September 1, | 2007 and December 31, 2007 and receive a 10% factory direct rebate. | Any dealer will do, even if they have never sold TS-Aligner products | before. Just have your favorite dealer give me a call or send me | email. I'll provide them with everything they need to facilitate | your purchase. If I decide I'm going to buy a tool, it's because I've decided that I have a current (and nearly always, also a future) need and the tool in question meets or exceeds my needs. I don't want to be a participant in a sales and marketing process - I just want the tool so I can put it to work. Like many others, I don't trust rebate offers. At this stage of the game I've come to believe that rebates provide the offerer with (another) opportunity to clutter my mailboxes with wastepaper and spam and to sell contact info to others, and I won't even consider putting first class postage on an envelope and going to Kinko's to make a copy of my receipt unless the rebate is large compared to the dollar and time cost involved. Having said that, I'll follow on with the info that large rebates (the kind I just said might prompt me to take action) set off my internal alarms that a product is normally grossly overpriced to begin with, and that I need to be wary of the manufacturer/vendor involved. Worse for you, if I decide I need your product at a time when it's not on sale, I'm likely to feel resentful because I know I'm paying 11+% more than if it were discounted 10%. I realize that this isn't completely rational - but that doesn't change the fact that I'm not feeling good about either you or your product, even though I've never met you or tried your product. -- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/ |
TS-Aligner Fall 2007 Promotional Offer!
On Sep 3, 5:02 pm, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com
wrote: Ed Bennett wrote: There are better ways to promote a product. How is it that companies like Best Buy can offer competitive pricing to Circuit City while at the same time avoiding the ubiquitous rebates that CC offer? I don't know how they do it but I do know that they do it all the time. I can't comment on how multi-billion dollar outfits like Best Buy and Circuit City make their marketing, pricing, and promotional decisions. I suspect that the process is significantly different from mine ;-) I'd bet that the monthly mortgage payment doesn't figure into the formula. To respond to your reply to the other poster, yes, the negativity associated with rebates is directly related to poorly administered programs. They make you hop through the hoops... if you forget to include one little requirement you're out of the running... there are unreasonable restrictions. "One to a household"? What the hell difference does it matter how many households are involved? Isn't the whole idea to sell MORE items? Or would you rather it remain "one to a customer"? Yes, I have gone through all the hoops on a number of occasions to get the rebate. It is a PITA to be sure. There are no hoops with my rebate program. The form is included in the box for every TS-Aligner product shipped to dealers. I just want to make sure that you actually purchased the product(s) and that you are a real person. Just fill out the name and address (without which you cannot receive the check) and mail it back within a month of the purchase. I personally receive the mail and process the payment. The name and address get filed away forever - never to be used for spam or junk mail. Contrary to popular belief, a lot of rebate programs aren't about increasing sales; they generally have ulterior motives. Often, they are collecting demographic information. It's cheaper to pay end users to fill out the form than to pay a market research firm to hunt down the info sometime later. So, "one to a household" makes sense. My ulterior motive involves building a dealer channel. But let's say you jump through the hoops, cross all the t's and dot all the i's. Then they just claim they never received it. Please remail it. However, since the original proof of purchase was in the first envelope and the company won't accept copies, that become a joke. However, the joke's on the original company as I no longer buy their products. They only get one chance to rape me. Won't happen with me. But, I understand why people might believe that it would. You had to ask these questions? You've never tried to get a rebate yourself? You must lead a sheltered existence. I don't know anybody who hasn't been screwed by a rebate offer. Yes, I have, on several occasions. Once they decided not to award the rebate. But, it didn't bother me all that much because I wasn't actually betting my financial future on receiving the rebate. The rebate just prompted me to take a closer look at the product that I wasn't paying much attention to. It added weight the decision process. I didn't feel as if I had been ripped off because the product didn't cost any more than it normally did. The rebate would have been gravy. No real regrets. Ed Bennett http://www.ts-aligner.com home of the TS-Aligner |
TS-Aligner Fall 2007 Promotional Offer!
On Sep 3, 5:55 pm, "Swingman" wrote:
Also why I will not buy most electronic items, like printers, from CC. If the "mail in rebate" is a good thing for the customer, fine ... let the retailer pass on immediate savings to the customer, and send in the rebate themselves. Yep, the instant rebate. It requires the dealer to do something. For high volume products which have good demand from a manufacturer that they cannot live without this works. But, it doesn't work for my products or my purposes. Ed Bennett http://www.ts-aligner.com Home of the TS-Aligner |
TS-Aligner Fall 2007 Promotional Offer!
This works great if the dealer can't live without your products.
That's not exactly my situation ;-). I don't think there's much hope getting them to cooperate. On Sep 3, 5:04 pm, "Leon" wrote: The better way that you want to know about would be the same one that the automobile manufacturers use. They advertise "X" dollars cash back and this translates to immediate price reductions to the consumer. The dealer simply provides proof of the purchase to the manufacturer and is reimbursed the discount. You could simply request the copy of the invoice from the distributor or reseller and give him back the 10% of the sale price or credit his account. The customer comes out ahead and really and truly you are here to serve the customer, not the other way around. |
TS-Aligner Fall 2007 Promotional Offer!
It just doesn't fit my situation. I really wouldn't expect a dealer -
who doesn't know anything about me or my products - to go out of their way to administer the "instant rebate" thing for me. I would be embarrassed to even suggest it. Ideally, the transaction should encourage the dealer to carry the products in their store/catalog/web site. It definitely makes it more attractive for the customer. But, I could do that much easier if I wasn't interested in building a dealer channel. On Sep 3, 5:29 pm, "Swingman" wrote: "Leon" wrote in message You could simply request the copy of the invoice from the distributor or reseller and give him back the 10% of the sale price or credit his account. The customer comes out ahead and really and truly you are here to serve the customer, not the other way around. There, Ed, is your answer on how to approach your "sale" in a manner that does not make the thoughtful, informed buyer feel like he is being scammed. Well put, Leon! --www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 8/8/07 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
TS-Aligner Fall 2007 Promotional Offer!
Hi Lee,
Thanks. I'm not sure that the sentiment is quite as universal as you suggest, but the point is valid and well taken. If you've got better ideas (and don't mind doing some freelance) I would be interested in talking to you. Thanks, Ed On Sep 3, 6:23 pm, "Lee Michaels" wrote: From an old marketing man's perspective; Almost everybody has been screwed by a rebate at one time or another. Therefore all rebates are considered scams. Therefore all stores/businesses who offer them are considered crooks. And if you should offer a rebate, you will be lumped into the afore mentioned crook catagory. Don't get angry with me Ed. The number one problem I had with marketing clients was their howls of protest that they were not the bad guys. Even though their business practices were exactly like the bad guys. Remember, from a marketing perspective, perception is everything. For many (most?) folks, rebate means there is some kinda lie'n and cheatin' goin' on here. |
TS-Aligner Fall 2007 Promotional Offer!
"Ed Bennett" wrote in message ups.com... This works great if the dealer can't live without your products. That's not exactly my situation ;-). I don't think there's much hope getting them to cooperate. So build a product that the dealer wants to have in stock. If it is a good selling item, he will want to stock it and put up with marketing techniques. That said, don't ask the end user/customer to do something that you would not ask your dealer to do. The dealer is not as important as the end user, period. If your product is good, the customer will find a way to buy it. |
TS-Aligner Fall 2007 Promotional Offer!
"Ed Bennett" wrote in message ups.com... Yep, the instant rebate. It requires the dealer to do something. For high volume products which have good demand from a manufacturer that they cannot live without this works. But, it doesn't work for my products or my purposes. Well Ed, you are getting answers from your target audience. You need to please us, not the dealer. The dealer is in a business relationship with you. The customer does not want to be in that relationship. The customer is not profiting from your product, the dealer is. You may need to do more homework to determine how to get the dealer more interested in selling your product. Asking the dealer to handle rebates is less work than asking each and every customer to handle his own rebate. By-pass the dealer if he does not want to cooperate. |
TS-Aligner Fall 2007 Promotional Offer!
On Sep 3, 5:40 pm, Nova wrote:
1. The mail in rebate tells me first that the product is over priced as the manufacturer is willing to send me the rebate. Actually, I'm willing to pay you to do some work for me. I want you to buy it through a dealer. Ideally, this would be a dealer that I haven't made much progress with. It proves to him that there is some demand. 2. I have to pay sales tax on the price initially paid. You mean the full retail price, right? Sorry, not much I can do about that! 3. I then have to gather the necessary rebate forms, fill out an envelope and pay for postage and mail the rebate request in hoping something doesn't get lost/trashcanned along the way. The form comes in the box with the Aligner. You don't have to mail it in unless you want the money. 4. Somebody at the other end has to process the rebate and send the check to me. That would be me. 5. After the usual three to six months time lapse, all the while tying up my money, I have to waste more time cashing the check (providing I even get it). If it's worth your while. If the item were priced at the point of the original price minus the rebate to begin with, I would have saved the cost of the extra tax and postage and a number of people would have save a lot of time and wasted energy. But if I don't get any value for the rebate then it's not worth my while either. It's not about giving away money. If I were just looking for a way to discount the products then I wouldn't need to involve dealers. Ed Bennett http://www.ts-aligner.com Home of the TS-Aligner |
TS-Aligner Fall 2007 Promotional Offer!
Hi Leuf,
Yep, I'm doing it myself. The form comes with the product. It only requires name and address. I'm not looking for ways to avoid paying rebates. It's simple, I just want people to buy from dealers. Ed On Sep 3, 8:35 pm, Leuf wrote: On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 15:28:05 -0700, Ed Bennett wrote: I appreciate the feedback. Thanks. Can you elaborate a little? What exactly is the problem with a mail-in rebate? I think one difference between what you're doing and the typical rebates is it sounds like you are handling the rebates yourself - though I don't see a link to the actual rebate form in your link. Usually rebates on stuff bought at retail use a fullfillment center, whose sole job is to look for any reason to deny the rebate. I've heard they actually get rated by the percentage of rebates they reject, so there is tremendous pressure on them to find, or make up, any reason to deny. I've never ever personally not received a rebate, though I haven't really done that many. I don't see what's so difficult about reading instructions and sending the thing in within a month. I did recently send in some pretty large rebates on Pentax camera stuff. On the forum I read people used to glow about the handling of their rebates. Then they changed fullfillment centers and I've heard nothing but complaints since. For a company that has had perpetual rebates for a very long time (every few months the rebates end and they announce a new set of pretty much exactly the same rebates) it's just very bad to be having bad word of mouth. And it makes you wonder if the word of mouth was good about your rebates will be handled well, why did they change centers? So if I were you, I'd make it clear I'm personally making sure the rebates are handled properly. And I would have the rebate form up on my website as a pdf. I would make sure I have the absolute minimum of stuff the customer has to fill out and fine print on the form. It's of course necessary to have reasonable limitations, but go through the rebates looking for reasons to give the money not reasons to deny it. -Leuf |
TS-Aligner Fall 2007 Promotional Offer!
"Ed Bennett" wrote in message ups.com... It just doesn't fit my situation. I really wouldn't expect a dealer - who doesn't know anything about me or my products - to go out of their way to administer the "instant rebate" thing for me. Whoa, wait a minute, how is it that your dealer does not know a thing about you? Use your head, offer a 12% rebate to the dealer and let him discount the product 10% to the customer. If you are billing him, let him use the 12% rebate forms work to debit his bill or to immediately suppliment his payment. I would be embarrassed to even suggest it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. |
TS-Aligner Fall 2007 Promotional Offer!
I think you're just missing the big picture here Leon. Kind of
reminds me of the guy who said: "It's easy to make money in the stock market - just buy low and sell high." On Sep 3, 10:02 pm, "Leon" wrote: So build a product that the dealer wants to have in stock. If it is a good selling item, he will want to stock it and put up with marketing techniques. That said, don't ask the end user/customer to do something that you would not ask your dealer to do. The dealer is not as important as the end user, period. If your product is good, the customer will find a way to buy it. |
TS-Aligner Fall 2007 Promotional Offer!
"Ed Bennett" wrote in message ps.com... On Sep 3, 5:40 pm, Nova wrote: 1. The mail in rebate tells me first that the product is over priced as the manufacturer is willing to send me the rebate. Actually, I'm willing to pay you to do some work for me. I want you to buy it through a dealer. Ideally, this would be a dealer that I haven't made much progress with. It proves to him that there is some demand. Unless I am getting the product and ending up with more money than before I buy the product I am not being paid by you to do some work for you. I am simply getting a partial refund. 2. I have to pay sales tax on the price initially paid. You mean the full retail price, right? Sorry, not much I can do about that! If you have the dealer handle the rebate up front, the sales tax would be on the sales price less the rebate. 3. I then have to gather the necessary rebate forms, fill out an envelope and pay for postage and mail the rebate request in hoping something doesn't get lost/trashcanned along the way. The form comes in the box with the Aligner. You don't have to mail it in unless you want the money. Otherwise you pay more than you should be paying. 4. Somebody at the other end has to process the rebate and send the check to me. That would be me. Regareldss of who is refunding us with a rebate, we have to go to the store, buy the product, PLUS fill out a form, mail that form, and wait a lot longer than the date purchased to eventually receive the refunded rebate. 5. After the usual three to six months time lapse, all the while tying up my money, I have to waste more time cashing the check (providing I even get it). If it's worth your while. If you have not noticed, your end users are trying to tell you that it is not worth our while. If the item were priced at the point of the original price minus the rebate to begin with, I would have saved the cost of the extra tax and postage and a number of people would have save a lot of time and wasted energy. But if I don't get any value for the rebate then it's not worth my while either. It's not about giving away money. If I were just looking for a way to discount the products then I wouldn't need to involve dealers. Actually Ed, you stated quite the contrary in the beginning of the thread with your opening sentence, Every year I post a special offer here on rec.woodworking to show my appreciation for all your help and support. This year is no different. Now you are claiming no value from the rebate, I thought it was all about appreciation. ;~) |
TS-Aligner Fall 2007 Promotional Offer!
"Ed Bennett" wrote in message ups.com... I think you're just missing the big picture here Leon. Kind of reminds me of the guy who said: "It's easy to make money in the stock market - just buy low and sell high." Well really the big picture is to make money while pleasing the customer. I have been successful with that most of my career. Long term Successful Marketing is always about gaining customer trust, repeat business, and providing an easy buying experience. Nothing worth doing is always easy. We are just telling you that the approach of offering a rebate is one that is generally despised by your target audience. It's your business, what you make of it is up to you. You want valuable information, process what we have been telling you. Your customers are telling what they don't like, don't argue with them. |
TS-Aligner Fall 2007 Promotional Offer!
"Leon" wrote in message et... "Ed Bennett" wrote in message ps.com... On Sep 3, 5:40 pm, Nova wrote: 1. The mail in rebate tells me first that the product is over priced as the manufacturer is willing to send me the rebate. Actually, I'm willing to pay you to do some work for me. I want you to buy it through a dealer. Ideally, this would be a dealer that I haven't made much progress with. It proves to him that there is some demand. Unless I am getting the product and ending up with more money than before I buy the product I am not being paid by you to do some work for you. I am simply getting a partial refund. Well, that's not really true Leon. You are indeed getting paid by Ed if he sends you back some money, having been told by him why he's doing the rebate program. The difference in what you suggest and what Ed's doing is the amount of the pay. You are right of course, that you pay is in the form of a refund, but it's cash all the same. Otherwise you pay more than you should be paying. Or... you pay what you should be paying instead of taking advantage of a deal which is driven by the need of the manufacturer. Ed is suffering from a need in his distribution chain and is willing to extend a benefit to the end user in order to bolster up that end of his business. There is a big difference between paying more than you should and getting a deal. I've never used Ed's alignment tool and I likely never will, but I have never heard anyone say it was not worth what they paid for it. In fact, the roaring feedback from those who have used them is that they were indeed worth every cent they paid. 4. Somebody at the other end has to process the rebate and send the check to me. That would be me. Regareldss of who is refunding us with a rebate, we have to go to the store, buy the product, PLUS fill out a form, mail that form, and wait a lot longer than the date purchased to eventually receive the refunded rebate. Yeah, but come on Leon - you're making it sound like you're doing a lot of work here. Hell - anyone who is interested was going to go to the store anyway. Filling out rebate forms - even the most painful ones (Cingular telephone rebates come to mind), really takes about one minute. Certainly no amount of effort for any of us. If you have not noticed, your end users are trying to tell you that it is not worth our while. This is the one point that I've observed watching this thread unfold. Just for the record, I don't mind rebate forms too much. I do think the principle behind rebates usually borders on unethical - it's all about the gamble that most people won't complete them, so the manufacturer never incurs the cost, but does gain the bump in sales that the rebate temptation brings. But - that's just the way it is. I generally send mine in and I grumble when a month after I send my in, I get a notice from Cingular that my rebate will be processed within 10 weeks. 10 freakin' weeks! But that's not what Ed is offering. He's offering a quick turn around. A lot of good suggestions have come up about using different techniques and practices than rebates. Most of these Ed has demonstrated present a difficulty to his business. He has no control over his distribution and his retail arms. They do present problems for manufacturers and more so for smaller ones like Ed. He's trying to leverage the one direct way that he thinks a manufacturer can offer something to the end user that can have the effect of driving other areas of his business. I'm not sure the rebate will work as Ed plans, but I'm also not trying to re-write his business plan with this reply. What really struck me in this thread was the number of replies that talked about how much extra work rebates would be, how taxing they were, etc. My lifelong experience is that most people do not look at rebates this way. Rebates are indeed an attraction to most consumers. But - this is a niche group of people. Woodworkers are grumbly, stodgy old farts with one sided perspectives of the world. God made us that way, so it's the way it should be. Nothing is ever good enough for woodworkers unless they did it, or unless it's really, really old. Hey Ed - I just stumbled on it! A real eureka moment! Print your rebate forms in black and white with pictures of old table saws on the forms. Really old table saws. Throw a couple of pictures of hand planes and buck saws in the background. Get that nostalgia thing working. Throw in some text about prices from yesterday... Maybe even make it look like the rebate form was printed 60 years ago. Then... when a woodworker - and I mean a real woodworker like us here at the wreck, stumbles across it in the store, they will think they found a treasure from the past. Of couse since it's "60" years old, it has to be good - right? Oh yeah - dust - ship the product with a good stout coating of dust inside and outside the box. The best is yet to come Ed... Imagine the press you get when one of them (us) posts a thread in the group heralding this great deal they stumbled on where this small, customer oriented manufacturer honored a rebate from 60 years ago, and refunded half their money. Surely the refund was more than what the product sold for 60 years ago. But - this noble vendor did the honorable thing... -- -Mike- |
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In article .com,
Ed Bennett wrote: I appreciate the feedback. Thanks. Can you elaborate a little? What exactly is the problem with a mail-in rebate? Ed, I believe you've gotten a few replies as to the perceived problems. You also have the real problems: misplaced the receipt (probably #1 problem), tossed the box (and thus proof of purchase), set the thing aside to fill out later, and missed the deadline. I'm with the majority of the folks who responded; if I'm going to buy it, I'm going to buy it and realize that I have maybe a 25% chance of getting the rebate. I learned my lesson with CompUSA -- lots of crap free after rebate, so I bought a bunch, even though I didn't have a real need. Spent $150, got maybe $30 back, and had $120 worth of crap that I couldn't even dump on eBay, because so many other people had the same idea. No more rebates for me. How about compromise? Do an online rebate. Let people scan in the receipt and email it to you or upload it to a web site? Yeah, you might lose a little with the dishonest people, but chalk that up to a marketing cost and you'll do fine. Keep the mail-in for the people that can't figure out a computer. Costco offers rebates, and I *will* go after those, because the process is so quick and easy online. (Technically, my wife fills them out, so they are *very* easy to do, but I believe you can even get an instant credit back on your AmEx Costco card.) Regards, -Steve in Banks, OR http://woodworking.bigelowsite.com |
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Thanks Leon, your comments are always very entertaining. So, what
exactly did you do in your career (given all the time you spend on the wreck, I just assume you are retired)? It would seem like you want us to believe that you were the owner of a business that invented new products and introduced them with very successful marketing campaigns. Please do tell us all about your experience. In addition, I wouldn't mind your answers on a few questions. These are topics that you raised in your reply. Perhaps you could reach down into the depths of your knowledge and expertise to elaborate on each one with a bit more detail. Do you think that my customers are happy or unhappy with my products and service? Do you think that I have a high or low level of customer trust and loyalty? You know my product line, how much repeat business do you think I should expect? Based on what you know of my business and products, do you believe that I'm always looking for easy solutions? Does it seem to you like I'm disinterested, inattentive, or argumentative to what people are saying in this thread? On Sep 3, 10:54 pm, "Leon" wrote: Well really the big picture is to make money while pleasing the customer. I have been successful with that most of my career. Long term Successful Marketing is always about gaining customer trust, repeat business, and providing an easy buying experience. Nothing worth doing is always easy. We are just telling you that the approach of offering a rebate is one that is generally despised by your target audience. It's your business, what you make of it is up to you. You want valuable information, process what we have been telling you. Your customers are telling what they don't like, don't argue with them. |
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Thanks Mike! Many things said that I could not have said better. It
shows a lot of thought and understanding. I appreciate it a great deal (especially since it saves me the trouble of answering Leon's quips ;-). I'm afraid that no feasible alternatives have surfaced. A few replies seemed to show promise but ended up revealing a lot of pretense instead of expertise. So, the rebate is still on. Several people have already taken advantage of it. I'm a bit bemused by those who would call them "suckers". Yes, I'm trying to "wag the dog" so to speak. Marketing folks would say I'm trying to create "pull" in the dealer channel. Many companies would just throw tons of money at the problem - create a huge amount of demand with some sort of advertising/awareness campaign and then tell the dealers to stand in line. I don't have tons of money. I measure my money in grams and I have to be a bit more creative in my efforts. I'm sure that many here have no idea how much money is spent by big companies when they launch new products or open new channels. They probably think all the publicity is free. Attitudes about rebates do seem to be quite phobic among some members of the wreck. There seems to be no end to the pain and suffering that rebates cause. Sorry that they are so afflicted. If they felt the same way about test cuts I would be a rich man! Alas, the 30 second rebate form has slain them but 2 hours of test cuts doesn't phase them in the least. A couple of suggestions have been incorporated: - The offer on the web site has been expanded. I acknowledge that many people have had bad experiences with rebates from other companies. But, I assure people that this will be done right because I will be administering this rebate program personally. No bizarre hoops to jump through, no long forms full of personal questions, no tricks designed to avoid payment. - I provide a link to the PDF rebate form which will be included in the box with all TS-Aligner product going to dealers. - I explain that the program is designed to reward those who choose to buy their TS-Aligner through a dealer. The nostalgia thing sounds like fun! Not sure it would work though. "Old" is just one component of the formula. It also needs to be tedius and frustrating. Nothing seems to have more virtue to a "real woodworker" than a task or tool that requires hours of hair pulling, foot stomping, fist pounding trial and error. Then, and only then, can they feel as if they have avoided "cheating" and have exercised great "skill" in their pursuit of fine woodworking. Thanks, Ed Bennett http://www.ts-aligner.com Home of the TS-Aligner On Sep 4, 6:11 am, "Mike Marlow" wrote: "Leon" wrote in message et... "Ed Bennett" wrote in message ups.com... On Sep 3, 5:40 pm, Nova wrote: 1. The mail in rebate tells me first that the product is over priced as the manufacturer is willing to send me the rebate. Actually, I'm willing to pay you to do some work for me. I want you to buy it through a dealer. Ideally, this would be a dealer that I haven't made much progress with. It proves to him that there is some demand. Unless I am getting the product and ending up with more money than before I buy the product I am not being paid by you to do some work for you. I am simply getting a partial refund. Well, that's not really true Leon. You are indeed getting paid by Ed if he sends you back some money, having been told by him why he's doing the rebate program. The difference in what you suggest and what Ed's doing is the amount of the pay. You are right of course, that you pay is in the form of a refund, but it's cash all the same. Otherwise you pay more than you should be paying. Or... you pay what you should be paying instead of taking advantage of a deal which is driven by the need of the manufacturer. Ed is suffering from a need in his distribution chain and is willing to extend a benefit to the end user in order to bolster up that end of his business. There is a big difference between paying more than you should and getting a deal. I've never used Ed's alignment tool and I likely never will, but I have never heard anyone say it was not worth what they paid for it. In fact, the roaring feedback from those who have used them is that they were indeed worth every cent they paid. 4. Somebody at the other end has to process the rebate and send the check to me. That would be me. Regareldss of who is refunding us with a rebate, we have to go to the store, buy the product, PLUS fill out a form, mail that form, and wait a lot longer than the date purchased to eventually receive the refunded rebate. Yeah, but come on Leon - you're making it sound like you're doing a lot of work here. Hell - anyone who is interested was going to go to the store anyway. Filling out rebate forms - even the most painful ones (Cingular telephone rebates come to mind), really takes about one minute. Certainly no amount of effort for any of us. If you have not noticed, your end users are trying to tell you that it is not worth our while. This is the one point that I've observed watching this thread unfold. Just for the record, I don't mind rebate forms too much. I do think the principle behind rebates usually borders on unethical - it's all about the gamble that most people won't complete them, so the manufacturer never incurs the cost, but does gain the bump in sales that the rebate temptation brings. But - that's just the way it is. I generally send mine in and I grumble when a month after I send my in, I get a notice from Cingular that my rebate will be processed within 10 weeks. 10 freakin' weeks! But that's not what Ed is offering. He's offering a quick turn around. A lot of good suggestions have come up about using different techniques and practices than rebates. Most of these Ed has demonstrated present a difficulty to his business. He has no control over his distribution and his retail arms. They do present problems for manufacturers and more so for smaller ones like Ed. He's trying to leverage the one direct way that he thinks a manufacturer can offer something to the end user that can have the effect of driving other areas of his business. I'm not sure the rebate will work as Ed plans, but I'm also not trying to re-write his business plan with this reply. What really struck me in this thread was the number of replies that talked about how much extra work rebates would be, how taxing they were, etc. My lifelong experience is that most people do not look at rebates this way. Rebates are indeed an attraction to most consumers. But - this is a niche group of people. Woodworkers are grumbly, stodgy old farts with one sided perspectives of the world. God made us that way, so it's the way it should be. Nothing is ever good enough for woodworkers unless they did it, or unless it's really, really old. Hey Ed - I just stumbled on it! A real eureka moment! Print your rebate forms in black and white with pictures of old table saws on the forms. Really old table saws. Throw a couple of pictures of hand planes and buck saws in the background. Get that nostalgia thing working. Throw in some text about prices from yesterday... Maybe even make it look like the rebate form was printed 60 years ago. Then... when a woodworker - and I mean a real woodworker like us here at the wreck, stumbles across it in the store, they will think they found a treasure from the past. Of couse since it's "60" years old, it has to be good - right? Oh yeah - dust - ship the product with a good stout coating of dust inside and outside the box. The best is yet to come Ed... Imagine the press you get when one of them (us) posts a thread in the group heralding this great deal they stumbled on where this small, customer oriented manufacturer honored a rebate from 60 years ago, and refunded half their money. Surely the refund was more than what the product sold for 60 years ago. But - this noble vendor did the honorable thing... -- -Mike- - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
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Hi Steve,
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. On Sep 4, 11:23 am, (Stephen Bigelow) wrote: Ed, I believe you've gotten a few replies as to the perceived problems. You also have the real problems: misplaced the receipt (probably #1 problem), tossed the box (and thus proof of purchase), set the thing aside to fill out later, and missed the deadline. So, with the rebate program being administered by me, I figure that these problems can be worked out as they crop up. None of the issues that you mention are insurmountable. I'm not looking for excuses to avoid paying people. I'm looking to incent people to buy my products through dealers. I'm with the majority of the folks who responded; if I'm going to buy it, I'm going to buy it and realize that I have maybe a 25% chance of getting the rebate. Your chances improve considerably if you put your name and address on the form, include a copy of your receipt, and mail it in to me! Proof of purchase is necessary to avoid fraud. Name and address make it easier for me to send the check. I learned my lesson with CompUSA -- lots of crap free after rebate, so I bought a bunch, even though I didn't have a real need. Spent $150, got maybe $30 back, and had $120 worth of crap that I couldn't even dump on eBay, because so many other people had the same idea. No more rebates for me. Well, this does seem like a completely different sceneraio. How about compromise? Do an online rebate. Let people scan in the receipt and email it to you or upload it to a web site? Yeah, you might lose a little with the dishonest people, but chalk that up to a marketing cost and you'll do fine. Keep the mail-in for the people that can't figure out a computer. Sure, no problem. I don't mind the scan/email thing. Works for me. Unless you want your money by PayPal, I would still need to get a name and address. Costco offers rebates, and I *will* go after those, because the process is so quick and easy online. (Technically, my wife fills them out, so they are *very* easy to do, but I believe you can even get an instant credit back on your AmEx Costco card.) I just need proof of purchase and a means to provide payment. The "mail-in" thing seemed to be the easiest thing to me. I'll modify the web site to include the scan/email method. Ed Bennett http://www.ts-aligner.com Home of the TS-Aligner |
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Hi Allen,
The coupon thing works great in a retail environment where the item is being purchased in person. But, it doesn't account for mail/phone/web order dealers. It might also precipitate a price increase to cover the carrying costs. It assumes that the dealer is willing to do some work for me. And, it doesn't do anything to attract dealers who don't already offer the products. I'm afraid it doesn't really apply in my situation. Thanks, Ed Bennett http://www.ts-aligner.com Home of the TS-Aligner On Sep 3, 7:17 pm, "Allen Roy" wrote: How about an instant coupon savings. Customers can print one off your website or you could affix one to each box like a lot of manufacturers do today. Then you can instruct distributors that for each one they turn in that they can get some type of incentive. I wouldn't do rebates. Allen |
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On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 14:56:55 -0700, Ed Bennett
wrote: My 2 cents worth is to offer the purchaser, proportionate to the amount spent on your items, a coupon code that will give him a 'dollars off' amount applied to his next purchase with the dealer. So if I spend $200. on a Bennett product at Homer's Tool Outlet, Homer will give me $20 off my next purchase from him and so on up and down the price range of your products. ROY! |
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ROY! wrote:
On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 14:56:55 -0700, Ed Bennett wrote: My 2 cents worth is to offer the purchaser, proportionate to the amount spent on your items, a coupon code that will give him a 'dollars off' amount applied to his next purchase with the dealer. So if I spend $200. on a Bennett product at Homer's Tool Outlet, Homer will give me $20 off my next purchase from him and so on up and down the price range of your products. ROY! Homer would probably be more receptive to 20 - $1.00 coupons redeemable one at a time on each purchase of $100.00 or more. ;-) -- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA |
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Hi Roy,
It sounds like a great idea but in practice it would be very difficult (and expensive) to administer. Again, it requires the dealer to do work. It might increase prices (to cover carrying costs). And, it does nothing to attract the dealer that doesn't currently offer the products. It really is a difficult problem to solve. My goal isn't just to give out discounts. And, I'm not just looking to increase sales. I'm trying to develop a strong and loyal dealer channel and I really don't have a whole bunch of money to do it. I realize that rebates have some negative sentiment associated with them but they do seem to hit most of the bases. Ed Bennett http://www.ts-aligner.com Home of the TS-Aligner On Sep 4, 4:16 pm, ROY! wrote: On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 14:56:55 -0700, Ed Bennett wrote: My 2 cents worth is to offer the purchaser, proportionate to the amount spent on your items, a coupon code that will give him a 'dollars off' amount applied to his next purchase with the dealer. So if I spend $200. on a Bennett product at Homer's Tool Outlet, Homer will give me $20 off my next purchase from him and so on up and down the price range of your products. ROY! |
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"Ed Bennett" wrote in message
that you mention are insurmountable. I'm not looking for excuses to avoid paying people. I'm looking to incent people to buy my products through dealers. Ed, Be assured that no offense was intended, or to insinuate that you were doing any "scamming" yourself. That notwithstanding, the connotation of the phrase "mail-in rebate" does seem to incite strong opinions/feelings in more than one of us. g Anyway, good luck, understand your predicament, hope lots of folks take you up on your "dealer incentive" program, and look forward to using your product. :) -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 8/8/07 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
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Ed Bennett writes:
On Sep 3, 10:54 pm, "Leon" wrote: Well really the big picture is to make money while pleasing the customer. I have been successful with that most of my career. Long term Successful Marketing is always about gaining customer trust, repeat business, and providing an easy buying experience. Nothing worth doing is always easy. We are just telling you that the approach of offering a rebate is one that is generally despised by your target audience. It's your business, what you make of it is up to you. You want valuable information, process what we have been telling you. Your customers are telling what they don't like, don't argue with them. Top posting repaired. Comments below. Thanks Leon, your comments are always very entertaining. So, what exactly did you do in your career (given all the time you spend on the wreck, I just assume you are retired)? It would seem like you want us to believe that you were the owner of a business that invented new products and introduced them with very successful marketing campaigns. I certainly did not reach that conclusion from what Leon wrote. Note that you specified that a rebate (from the factory, i.e. yourself) could be obtained if one purchases your product via a new dealer. Here, you are asking potential customers to line up new dealers for you (yes, I know it costs lots of dinero to hire a sales organization and visit each of those dealers independently), but face it, you're asking potential customers to do _you_ a favor. Many folks, as Leon and other have pointed out, don't find rebate offers compelling, and some even avoid such product. So, after stating so, you attack him. That's not a good route towards building a customer base, is it? Does it seem to you like I'm disinterested, inattentive, or argumentative to what people are saying in this thread? I would certainly call your reply to Leon argumentative. scott |
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"Ed Bennett" wrote in message
ups.com... Thanks Leon, your comments are always very entertaining. So, what exactly did you do in your career (given all the time you spend on the wreck, I just assume you are retired)? It would seem like you want us to believe that you were the owner of a business that invented new products and introduced them with very successful marketing campaigns. Please do tell us all about your experience. In addition, I wouldn't mind your answers on a few questions. These are topics that you raised in your reply. Perhaps you could reach down into the depths of your knowledge and expertise to elaborate on each one with a bit more detail. You asked, At age 17 I began my working life doing so part time in an automotive retail/tire store, Ameron Automotive Centers, a division of Kelly Springfield/Goodyear, while finishing high school and attending college. At age 21 I was awarded the management position of one of the stores in Houston with the same company. My store was one of 300 stores through out the country. At age 22 and for more pay I was hired by BF Goodrich as an assistant manager. At age 23 I was hired to join a group to open a new Oldsmobile dealership in Houston. I was hired to start up and run the Parts Department. At age 28 I was promoted to Service Sales Manager in the same company. At age 31 I was promoted to a newly formed position as Parts Director over the Oldsmobile and newly acquired Isuzu franchise. At age 33 I was hired to be the GM of an AC/Delco wholesale distributor. At age 40 I retired from that business and the automotive profession and no longer have to work. The last job offered and paid excellent retirement benefits and gave me a first hand education as to what true customer service is all about, and how it can make or break a company. Through the direct actions of the two owners, this small company that made the owners millionaires and afforded me the opportunity to retire at 40, closed its doors after being in business for 25 years, 6 years after I left. The company which had no debt was not sold. While I was there the company enjoyed its best sales with annual sales reaching $3.4 million. In addition to the owners and I, we had 6 employees. Two years later I started my own small furniture design and construction business to keep me busy. I have been doing this for the past 10 years. Lastly, as of Wednesday of last week I cordially withdrew my name from an offer to open and manage a well known nationally recognized wood working supply store. Having sent my resume in to inquire about a possible part time job to add variety to my week I went to the interview only to find out that I was being strongly considered for the store manager position. I did not want to give up my present business for a FULL time job. Do you think that my customers are happy or unhappy with my products and service? I know that they are happy per comments by many here on this news group. Do you think that I have a high or low level of customer trust and loyalty? I would say for the customers that you have sold to that you have a high level of both. You know my product line, how much repeat business do you think I should expect? I am "familiar" with your product line. Not knowing the full range of your line I could not guess as to whether you have repeat business. Based on what you know of my business and products, do you believe that I'm always looking for easy solutions? Again, only being familiar with your products I can only respond with a reasonable answer. Any business person should look for the easiest solutions however the customer should always be the first consideration when making changes to a company policy or the way it interacts with its customers. Sometimes a simple solution for you may affect your bottom line negatively if the customer gets less than what he feels is fair. There is a fine line between what is considered by you as an acceptable loss of customers and what is not acceptable. Does it seem to you like I'm disinterested, inattentive, or argumentative to what people are saying in this thread? No, No, and Yes, at times. Ed, because you are mostly seen here sporadically and because you are often mentioning your product here on this group I get the impression that you come here more to sell vs. be a regular active participant to discuss IYHO the best way to finish a product, where to get the best deals on hardware, and so on. Because you do offer sound advice even though it is often centered around your products this is fine with me. Same goes for Steve Knight. We each use this group in a way that each of us feels is best for us as individuals. Perhaps not as apparent I too have benefited from receiving repeat jobs/customers through this news group. Anyway, it has always been my experience that customer satisfaction is the ultimate goal. With customer satisfaction and positive interaction with "yet to be customers", comes new customers and money. I know that profits are important however sales come first. With out sales, there are no profits. With increased sales come more opportunities to generate larger gross profits margins. IMHO common mail in rebates do not generate enough increase in sales to offset a possible loss of long term customer loyalty. Often rebates are offered by the manufacturer to help the retailer move the obsolete or over priced product off of the shelves to make way for a more popular, better version of, or less expensive product. It is often that the replacement product trumps the older version and is a better value than the older version even if is not discounted. Basically the manufacturer takes the hit rather than make the retailer suffer the loss associated with an over all reduced price of inventory. Mail in rebates like product coupons are seldom paid out because of the strict nonsense required to obtain the refund. Many customers forget or give up while waiting for the refund. Having said that, I don't for a moment believe that your intent is anything other than to do only the honorable thing for your customers. You seem a bit too "hands on" to risk dissatisfaction from you customers and I commend you for this. This country needs more businessmen like you and business to be run like yours to rebuild its reputation and faith with it's customers. I think the whole problem with your thread was the mention of the much resented "r" word. On Sep 3, 10:54 pm, "Leon" wrote: Well really the big picture is to make money while pleasing the customer. I have been successful with that most of my career. Long term Successful Marketing is always about gaining customer trust, repeat business, and providing an easy buying experience. Nothing worth doing is always easy. We are just telling you that the approach of offering a rebate is one that is generally despised by your target audience. It's your business, what you make of it is up to you. You want valuable information, process what we have been telling you. Your customers are telling what they don't like, don't argue with them. |
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"Leon" shared this gem with us Lastly, as of Wednesday of last week I cordially withdrew my name from an offer to open and manage a well known nationally recognized wood working supply store. Having sent my resume in to inquire about a possible part time job to add variety to my week I went to the interview only to find out that I was being strongly considered for the store manager position. I did not want to give up my present business for a FULL time job. There ya go Leon, you are just overqualified for that part time sales position. Maybe you can get swingman (or another creative type wrecker) to write you a song. You can call it The Overqualifiation Blues. |
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