What has happened to the woodworking shows? I live in the NE in the
summer and Florida in the winter. Up north I have Direct TV
(satellite) and in FL I have Comcast cable. I get most of the premium
channels including DIY (premium on satellite) and NPR which is not
premium (paid for with tax dollars and you still get the same amount
of ads plus two weeks a year of bugging you to send them yet more
money. New Yankee Workshop and David Marks used to appear regularly.
They were great to watch even in you didn't like Norm's approach or
were annoyed by Marks' insistence on making a template for every
single thing he did. On Comcast I only find This Old House--no NYW
and on DIY they rerun David Marks every week for the umpteenth time.
Stupid channels only copy one another with idiot shows depicting
warehouse battles, creative scrapbooking or how to macrame. Seems to
me that with the number of woodworkers in the country they are missing
a huge market. Talk about a "wasteland." Apart from the movies (most
of which are PPV) there seems to be less quality content than when
there were only 3 or 4.

Joe Bleau wrote in
:

What has happened to the woodworking shows? I live in the NE in the
summer and Florida in the winter. Up north I have Direct TV
(satellite) and in FL I have Comcast cable. I get most of the premium
channels including DIY (premium on satellite) and NPR which is not
premium (paid for with tax dollars and you still get the same amount
of ads plus two weeks a year of bugging you to send them yet more
money. New Yankee Workshop and David Marks used to appear regularly.
They were great to watch even in you didn't like Norm's approach or
were annoyed by Marks' insistence on making a template for every
single thing he did. On Comcast I only find This Old House--no NYW
and on DIY they rerun David Marks every week for the umpteenth time.
Stupid channels only copy one another with idiot shows depicting
warehouse battles, creative scrapbooking or how to macrame. Seems to
me that with the number of woodworkers in the country they are missing
a huge market. Talk about a "wasteland." Apart from the movies (most
of which are PPV) there seems to be less quality content than when
there were only 3 or 4.


http://thewoodworkingchannel.com/

The idiots deciding what shows to run have a nasty habit of showing the
same 10 shows over and over and over again. While that's great for
someone trying to memorize a show (that's what recording devices are
for), it's terrible for someone watching the show for its entertainment
value.

Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

Joe Bleau wrote in
:

What has happened to the woodworking shows?

David Marks contract with the DIY folks wasn't renewed, so, at least for
the foreseeable future, there will be no more new Woodworks programs.
David came and spoke at our wooddorkers' club, showed some of his really
neat stuff, and said he was of two minds about not doing any more work for
those folks. Some of what he showed got to be repetitive, because you can
only do so much in 18 minutes air time, really.

Norm's new stuff in on PBS here, which I get as part of the locals package
on DirecTV. Whether you like the choices they've made is another
discussion. There are at least 5 PBS stations shown in the SF Bay Area
local package.

Florida for the winter has to have at least one downside beyond tourists.
Maybe Comcast cable tv is that downside.

Patriarch

Joe:

NPR which is not
premium (paid for with tax dollars and you still get the same amount
of ads plus two weeks a year of bugging you to send them yet more
money. New Yankee Workshop and David Marks used to appear regularly.

You probably read the answer about Dave Marks. It was decided
some time ago, that he was going to halt. Anyways, I'll give
you my view about NPR. First off, each station in the NPR
network, decides its schedules. If they want to drop NYW or TOH,
it's up to them. Your local stations probably do viewer profiles and
got
a feeling that these shows don't draw an audience big enough
to serve.

The NPR stations get money from YOU and the Feds. That's why they
beg. I don't like it,but the other alternative is do what a lot
of other nations do - tax you and they hand out the dough. If you
would contact your local stations, about the shows, (a letter might
work), it would
register better than protesting in a news group. (just my 2 cents).

Now NYW and TOH are owned either jointly or outright by Time Warner
and Marsh Productions. They sell the SHOWs to your local
friendly NPR channel. The local channel has to PAY them. The Gov't
doesn't own the production or pay the "stars", etc. I would
imagine that each show is in the neighborhood of
about $250,000 to produce. That means, writing, scripting,
editing, on air talent, directing, etc. Probably even more.
A lot of money to recover!

I think over time, a lot of these shows are going to be available
on a subscription basis over the Internet. Already, you can
see "Lost" episodes a week after they are broadcasted and
there will be more of this. I would imagine that Marsh and
Time-Warner are trying to figure out how to get their
content (their shows) into the public more and make
more money. Would you pay $1.99 to download an episode
to your computer and watch it? If you would, drop the show's
owners a line.

Bottom line, if you don't like what you see, let your
cable and satellite company know!

MJ Wallace

On 30 Jan 2007 23:28:46 -0800, "
wrote:

Joe:

NPR which is not
premium (paid for with tax dollars and you still get the same amount
of ads plus two weeks a year of bugging you to send them yet more
money. New Yankee Workshop and David Marks used to appear regularly.

You probably read the answer about Dave Marks. It was decided
some time ago, that he was going to halt. Anyways, I'll give
you my view about NPR. First off, each station in the NPR
network, decides its schedules. If they want to drop NYW or TOH,
it's up to them. Your local stations probably do viewer profiles and
got
a feeling that these shows don't draw an audience big enough
to serve.

The NPR stations get money from YOU and the Feds. That's why they
beg. I don't like it,but the other alternative is do what a lot
of other nations do - tax you and they hand out the dough.

Uh where do you think the money the feds give them comes from?

As for the "other alternative", the "other alternative" is to pull the
plug on them. With more than a thousand channels available on just
about any cable system, why do we need one more that's government
subsidized?

If you
would contact your local stations, about the shows, (a letter might
work), it would
register better than protesting in a news group. (just my 2 cents).

Now NYW and TOH are owned either jointly or outright by Time Warner
and Marsh Productions. They sell the SHOWs to your local
friendly NPR channel. The local channel has to PAY them. The Gov't
doesn't own the production or pay the "stars", etc. I would
imagine that each show is in the neighborhood of
about $250,000 to produce. That means, writing, scripting,
editing, on air talent, directing, etc. Probably even more.
A lot of money to recover!

I think over time, a lot of these shows are going to be available
on a subscription basis over the Internet. Already, you can
see "Lost" episodes a week after they are broadcasted and
there will be more of this. I would imagine that Marsh and
Time-Warner are trying to figure out how to get their
content (their shows) into the public more and make
more money. Would you pay $1.99 to download an episode
to your computer and watch it? If you would, drop the show's
owners a line.

Bottom line, if you don't like what you see, let your
cable and satellite company know!

MJ Wallace

On Jan 30, 10:31 pm, Joe Bleau wrote:
What has happened to the woodworking shows? I live in the NE in the
summer and Florida in the winter. Up north I have Direct TV
(satellite) and in FL I have Comcast cable.

Our local PBS channel in Tallahassee (also on Comcast cable) carries
NYW. Have you checked out The Woodworking Channel at http://
www.thewoodworkingchannel.com/

Dick Durbin

I thought NPR was National Public Radio. I didn't know
they also broadcast television shows.

Or did you mean to refer to PBS, the Public
Broadcasting System which does provide telecasts of
Norm Abrams' New Yankee Workshop and a woodturning
show. I just found the woodturning show and it is
different from the woodturning show on DIY.

I thought the David Marks' woodworking show was a DIY
network series. Did his show ever appear on PBS or
NPR? :-)

It appears it will be a dry season for woodworking
shows.

John Flatley

--

wrote in message
oups.com...
| Joe:
|
| NPR which is not
| premium (paid for with tax dollars and you still
get the same amount
| of ads plus two weeks a year of bugging you to send
them yet more
| money. New Yankee Workshop and David Marks used to
appear regularly.
|
| You probably read the answer about Dave Marks. It was
decided
| some time ago, that he was going to halt. Anyways,
I'll give
| you my view about NPR. First off, each station in the
NPR
| network, decides its schedules. If they want to drop
NYW or TOH,
| it's up to them. Your local stations probably do
viewer profiles and
| got
| a feeling that these shows don't draw an audience big
enough
| to serve.
|
| The NPR stations get money from YOU and the Feds.
That's why they
| beg. I don't like it,but the other alternative is do
what a lot
| of other nations do - tax you and they hand out the
dough. If you
| would contact your local stations, about the shows,
(a letter might
| work), it would
| register better than protesting in a news group.
(just my 2 cents).
|
| Now NYW and TOH are owned either jointly or outright
by Time Warner
| and Marsh Productions. They sell the SHOWs to your
local
| friendly NPR channel. The local channel has to PAY
them. The Gov't
| doesn't own the production or pay the "stars", etc.
I would
| imagine that each show is in the neighborhood of
| about $250,000 to produce. That means, writing,
scripting,
| editing, on air talent, directing, etc. Probably even
more.
| A lot of money to recover!
|
| I think over time, a lot of these shows are going to
be available
| on a subscription basis over the Internet. Already,
you can
| see "Lost" episodes a week after they are broadcasted
and
| there will be more of this. I would imagine that
Marsh and
| Time-Warner are trying to figure out how to get their
| content (their shows) into the public more and make
| more money. Would you pay $1.99 to download an
episode
| to your computer and watch it? If you would, drop the
show's
| owners a line.
|
| Bottom line, if you don't like what you see, let your
| cable and satellite company know!
|
| MJ Wallace
|

On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 08:15:15 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

As for the "other alternative", the "other alternative" is to pull the
plug on them. With more than a thousand channels available on just
about any cable system, why do we need one more that's government
subsidized?

And all of those channels are paid for and supposedly making a profit
through the advertisers and are popular enough with the viewers to
stay on the air. PBS and similar "public" stations simply are not,
they would fail in a minute if they were left to their own devices.

They shouldn't get a penny of federal funding, period. If enough
people don't want to watch them, then why bother having them around to
begin with? I'm sure channels like DIY would be more than happy to
pick up TOH and NYW first-run.

On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 22:31:40 -0500, Joe Bleau
wrote:

What has happened to the woodworking shows? I live in the NE in the
summer and Florida in the winter. Up north I have Direct TV
(satellite) and in FL I have Comcast cable. I get most of the premium
channels including DIY (premium on satellite) and NPR which is not
premium (paid for with tax dollars and you still get the same amount
of ads plus two weeks a year of bugging you to send them yet more
money.

As has already been pointed out, you almost surely mean PBS. And "two
weeks a year?" It must be at least two weeks per quarter, maybe more.
I'd be happy if it was only two weeks a year.

New Yankee Workshop and David Marks used to appear regularly.

Apples and oranges. David Marks only appeared on DIY (and still does,
as you point out, in reruns). No new episodes have been made in at
least three years.

NYW original episodes and recent reruns only appear on PBS. For a few
years the older seasons (beginning with the first) were broadcast on
HGTV, but that expired approximately four years ago, also. I doubt
you'll be seeing any NYW programs older than about 2002 on PBS.

On both the satellite (with certain exceptions) and cable, you get the
local PBS outlet, not the national feed. As has been pointed out
elsewhere, the local stations may or may not carry NYW or any other of
the various woodworking content.

I get three local PBSes on my satellite. The three major woodworking
shows, NYW, American Woodshop, and The Woodwright's Shop are not all
shown on any one of the three stations. All three do carry NYW, but
only one carries TWWS (and it has the least coverage of the three
stations), and only one carries AW (one of the other outlets).

They were great to watch even in you didn't like Norm's approach or
were annoyed by Marks' insistence on making a template for every
single thing he did. On Comcast I only find This Old House--no NYW
and on DIY they rerun David Marks every week for the umpteenth time.

You are the victim of local programming for those shows (NYW and TOH).
Marks' show explained above.

Stupid channels only copy one another with idiot shows depicting
warehouse battles, creative scrapbooking or how to macrame. Seems to
me that with the number of woodworkers in the country they are missing
a huge market. Talk about a "wasteland."

Yeah, HGTV really went downhill with that and frankly, with the
exception of Marks' show, DIY has never been up the hill.

Apart from the movies (most of which are PPV) there seems to be less
quality content than when there were only 3 or 4.

Fortunately, on my satellite (DishNetwork), in addition to IFC, TCM,
and FoxMovies (all of which play without commercials, and I believe
are on the basic package), I get six or seven other movie channels
(not PPV and not exactly premium like HBO, but bundled in a higher
level package which includes DIY and the Military Channel).

There is a lot of time to fill on those (and other movie channels) and
frankly, a trip to any video store will confirm that there is just
about the same percentage of quality content on cable/satellite as
there is on video (which means the general video library). That means
not a lot of quality content available to fill that mass of air time.

Don't forget that your idea of quality content may not be the same as
my idea of quality content (or others') so the content deciders are
facing a no-win proposition in their programming decisions, no matter
what. If not one more chop-socky movie were ever played, I'd be a
happy camper, for example.


--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:48:05 -0500, "John Flatley"
wrote:

I thought NPR was National Public Radio. I didn't know
they also broadcast television shows.

Or did you mean to refer to PBS, the Public
Broadcasting System which does provide telecasts of
Norm Abrams' New Yankee Workshop and a woodturning
show. I just found the woodturning show and it is
different from the woodturning show on DIY.

I thought the David Marks' woodworking show was a DIY
network series. Did his show ever appear on PBS or
NPR? :-)

It appears it will be a dry season for woodworking
shows.

NPR and PBS are both supported by CPB.

John Flatley

J. Clarke wrote:

NPR and PBS are both supported by CPB.

J. Clarke wrote:


NPR and PBS are both supported by CPB.

So?

The 2007 US Federal budget is about $983B (that is billion with a B).
The CPB budget is about $347M (million with a M).

The math works out to about 0.036% of the total budget. That is a
rounding error.

In the era of $250M Alaskan bridges to nowhere there are far more
appropriate targets for your energy and anger other than the CPB.

Try taking a look here for some more egregious targets for your zeal.

http://thebudgetgraph.com/

"JMS" wrote in message news:GD7wh.9953$Hb6.9363@trndny02...
J. Clarke wrote:

NPR and PBS are both supported by CPB.

J. Clarke wrote:


NPR and PBS are both supported by CPB.

So?

The 2007 US Federal budget is about $983B (that is billion with a B). The
CPB budget is about $347M (million with a M).

The math works out to about 0.036% of the total budget. That is a
rounding error.

In the era of $250M Alaskan bridges to nowhere there are far more
appropriate targets for your energy and anger other than the CPB.

Try taking a look here for some more egregious targets for your zeal.

http://thebudgetgraph.com/

Try not to obfuscate. The government also supports by lost taxes on
donations, and many states give a direct tax credit. Then there are the
sponsors who supply production money - for a write-off ... goes on and on.

LRod wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 22:31:40 -0500, Joe Bleau
wrote:


What has happened to the woodworking shows? I live in the NE in the
summer and Florida in the winter. Up north I have Direct TV
(satellite) and in FL I have Comcast cable. I get most of the premium
channels including DIY (premium on satellite) and NPR which is not
premium (paid for with tax dollars and you still get the same amount
of ads plus two weeks a year of bugging you to send them yet more
money.


As has already been pointed out, you almost surely mean PBS. And "two
weeks a year?" It must be at least two weeks per quarter, maybe more.
I'd be happy if it was only two weeks a year.


New Yankee Workshop and David Marks used to appear regularly.


Apples and oranges. David Marks only appeared on DIY (and still does,
as you point out, in reruns). No new episodes have been made in at
least three years.

NYW original episodes and recent reruns only appear on PBS. For a few
years the older seasons (beginning with the first) were broadcast on
HGTV, but that expired approximately four years ago, also. I doubt
you'll be seeing any NYW programs older than about 2002 on PBS.

On both the satellite (with certain exceptions) and cable, you get the
local PBS outlet, not the national feed. As has been pointed out
elsewhere, the local stations may or may not carry NYW or any other of
the various woodworking content.

I get three local PBSes on my satellite. The three major woodworking
shows, NYW, American Woodshop, and The Woodwright's Shop are not all
shown on any one of the three stations. All three do carry NYW, but
only one carries TWWS (and it has the least coverage of the three
stations), and only one carries AW (one of the other outlets).


They were great to watch even in you didn't like Norm's approach or
were annoyed by Marks' insistence on making a template for every
single thing he did. On Comcast I only find This Old House--no NYW
and on DIY they rerun David Marks every week for the umpteenth time.


You are the victim of local programming for those shows (NYW and TOH).
Marks' show explained above.


Stupid channels only copy one another with idiot shows depicting
warehouse battles, creative scrapbooking or how to macrame. Seems to
me that with the number of woodworkers in the country they are missing
a huge market. Talk about a "wasteland."


Yeah, HGTV really went downhill with that and frankly, with the
exception of Marks' show, DIY has never been up the hill.


Apart from the movies (most of which are PPV) there seems to be less
quality content than when there were only 3 or 4.


Fortunately, on my satellite (DishNetwork), in addition to IFC, TCM,
and FoxMovies (all of which play without commercials, and I believe
are on the basic package), I get six or seven other movie channels
(not PPV and not exactly premium like HBO, but bundled in a higher
level package which includes DIY and the Military Channel).

There is a lot of time to fill on those (and other movie channels) and
frankly, a trip to any video store will confirm that there is just
about the same percentage of quality content on cable/satellite as
there is on video (which means the general video library). That means
not a lot of quality content available to fill that mass of air time.

Don't forget that your idea of quality content may not be the same as
my idea of quality content (or others') so the content deciders are
facing a no-win proposition in their programming decisions, no matter
what. If not one more chop-socky movie were ever played, I'd be a
happy camper, for example.


Cable here in NJ has been showing Woodturning Workshop from (I think)
channel 21 in Long Island.
However the show appears to be affiliated with Rutgers. I do not know if
theses are old shows or if more are being made since recent shows have
been repeats. There has been some very nice photography showing quite
clearly the tool presentation on the work piece.

"JMS" wrote in message news:GD7wh.9953$Hb6.9363@trndny02...

The 2007 US Federal budget is about $983B (that is billion with a B). The
CPB budget is about $347M (million with a M).

The math works out to about 0.036% of the total budget. That is a
rounding error.

In the era of $250M Alaskan bridges to nowhere there are far more
appropriate targets for your energy and anger other than the CPB.

Try taking a look here for some more egregious targets for your zeal.

http://thebudgetgraph.com/

Since it's so insignificant, please multiply your family income by .036% and
mail it to me. Email me for the address.

todd

On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 23:54:43 GMT, John Siegel
wrote:

Cable here in NJ has been showing Woodturning Workshop from (I think)
channel 21 in Long Island.
However the show appears to be affiliated with Rutgers. I do not know if
theses are old shows or if more are being made since recent shows have
been repeats. There has been some very nice photography showing quite
clearly the tool presentation on the work piece.

If you're talking about the one with Tim Yoder as the host, that's out
of Rogers State University in Oklahoma. I like that a lot. He cracks
me up every time he tries to pronounce cyanoacrylate and I like his
teaching "always sneak up on a bead."

It's a far better show than "Woodturning Techniques" which was on DIY
for quite a while.

From the program notes incuded on my satellite, the first ones aired
about a year ago, and it seems like they have around 15 or 20 in the
can.

I get it on my third of three PBS stations.


--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

LRod wrote in
:

On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 23:54:43 GMT, John Siegel
wrote:

Cable here in NJ has been showing Woodturning Workshop from (I think)
channel 21 in Long Island.
However the show appears to be affiliated with Rutgers. I do not know if
theses are old shows or if more are being made since recent shows have
been repeats. There has been some very nice photography showing quite
clearly the tool presentation on the work piece.

If you're talking about the one with Tim Yoder as the host, that's out
of Rogers State University in Oklahoma. I like that a lot. He cracks
me up every time he tries to pronounce cyanoacrylate and I like his
teaching "always sneak up on a bead."

It's a far better show than "Woodturning Techniques" which was on DIY
for quite a while.

From the program notes incuded on my satellite, the first ones aired
about a year ago, and it seems like they have around 15 or 20 in the
can.

I get it on my third of three PBS stations.



This one is on a TiVo season pass. I like the fellow's style. And there's
a Yoder in the family tree, back a handful of generations, too.

Patriarch

Try not to obfuscate. The government also supports by lost taxes on
donations, and many states give a direct tax credit. Then there are the
sponsors who supply production money - for a write-off ... goes on and on.

Not sure what the point is. First off, the tax deductions are
controlled
by individuals, not by government. In that, you chose to send
money to whoever you want to - religious or
other charity organizations. So to claim that
these groups GET support from the government because you get
a deduction on your taxes, is odd. Tho, in a way, I could see it
as making sure that SOME of YOUR money is diverted from the federal
budget to your local charity. If that's what you mean, I agree.
But where I disagree is that in some way means that there is
support from the federal government because of tax deductions is
a bit hard for me to follow.

The product placement is the "price of admission" for Delta or other
corporations to contribute to the PRODUCTION (I bet) of the show.
There
might be SOME money coming to the local stations, but I would think
it would be in the reduced cost of buying the series. If your local
PBS station got NYW for $200g for the season WITHOUT
Delta's ads or for $100g WITH the ads, guess which one they
will chose?

MJ Wallace

On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:13:10 GMT, JMS wrote:

J. Clarke wrote:

NPR and PBS are both supported by CPB.

J. Clarke wrote:


NPR and PBS are both supported by CPB.

So?

The 2007 US Federal budget is about $983B (that is billion with a B).
The CPB budget is about $347M (million with a M).

The math works out to about 0.036% of the total budget. That is a
rounding error.

In the era of $250M Alaskan bridges to nowhere there are far more
appropriate targets for your energy and anger other than the CPB.

Try taking a look here for some more egregious targets for your zeal.

http://thebudgetgraph.com/

What "zeal"? Personally I don't give a hoot in Hell about it. But I
don't understand what purpose it is supposed to serve either.

On 31 Jan 2007 18:02:29 -0800, "
wrote:



Try not to obfuscate. The government also supports by lost taxes on
donations, and many states give a direct tax credit. Then there are the
sponsors who supply production money - for a write-off ... goes on and on.

Not sure what the point is. First off, the tax deductions are
controlled
by individuals, not by government. In that, you chose to send
money to whoever you want to - religious or
other charity organizations. So to claim that
these groups GET support from the government because you get
a deduction on your taxes, is odd. Tho, in a way, I could see it
as making sure that SOME of YOUR money is diverted from the federal
budget to your local charity. If that's what you mean, I agree.
But where I disagree is that in some way means that there is
support from the federal government because of tax deductions is
a bit hard for me to follow.

What you're missing is that the government decides what is and is not
a charity eligible for deductible donations. By deciding that PBS or
NPR stations are eligible they are willingly foregoing tax revenue.

The product placement is the "price of admission" for Delta or other
corporations to contribute to the PRODUCTION (I bet) of the show.
There
might be SOME money coming to the local stations, but I would think
it would be in the reduced cost of buying the series. If your local
PBS station got NYW for $200g for the season WITHOUT
Delta's ads or for $100g WITH the ads, guess which one they
will chose?

MJ Wallace

On 31 Jan 2007 05:57:50 -0800, "Olebiker" wrote:


Our local PBS channel in Tallahassee (also on Comcast cable) carries
NYW. Have you checked out The Woodworking Channel at http://
www.thewoodworkingchannel.com/

Dick Durbin


Wow! Thanks a lot for turning me on to thewoodworkingchannel.com. I
went to check it out and ended up watching 2 hours of programming.
Screw NPR, CPB, PBS, Comcast, Direct TV and all the rest of the
dinosaur media. The future is upon us.

Joe

In article ,
J. Clarke wrote:


Uh where do you think the money the feds give them comes from?

As for the "other alternative", the "other alternative" is to pull the
plug on them. With more than a thousand channels available on just
about any cable system, why do we need one more that's government
subsidized?


For one thing, believe it ot not, not everyone has cable or satellite.
Of those 1000 channels, how many have locally oriented programming that
really means anything to your community? In my city, the local commercial
channels have news shows a couple times a day where they pretty much
repeat headlines from the local paper. They do a credible job with
the weather but as far as any depth of reporting on local news &
events, forget it. OTOH, the public TV station & NPR radio station
have real and detailed local content for a signifcant part of their
programming day and the national programming they carry is often of
a type that is simply no longer played on commercial stations. They do
have some ads but in length, quality, and content, they are nothing
like the obnoxious advertising on the commercial channels.

If you examine the FCC policies and regulations it is apparent ALL
broadcasters & spectrum users are subsidized, perhaps some less directly
than others, but on the whole the system is very much geared towards
providing benefits to business rather than the consumers. I don't believe
that the small amount of federal funding public radio and TV receives
is misspent. Public broadcasting provides a valuable service, at least
in my area. If these stations had the plug pulled, it is highly
unlikely that commercial broadcasters would step up to replace that.






--
Contentment makes poor men rich. Discontent makes rich men poor.
--Benjamin Franklin

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf.lonestar.org

On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:13:10 GMT, JMS wrote:

J. Clarke wrote:

NPR and PBS are both supported by CPB.

J. Clarke wrote:


NPR and PBS are both supported by CPB.

So?

The 2007 US Federal budget is about $983B (that is billion with a B).
The CPB budget is about $347M (million with a M).

The math works out to about 0.036% of the total budget. That is a
rounding error.

In the era of $250M Alaskan bridges to nowhere there are far more
appropriate targets for your energy and anger other than the CPB.


Well, just from your comment alone, cutting CPB budget would more than
pay for that $250M Alaskan Bridge to nowhere.


Try taking a look here for some more egregious targets for your zeal.

http://thebudgetgraph.com/

Saving money starts one dollar at a time. The origin of CPB occured when
there were only 3 major networks. Most US citizens now have access to
100's of channels (and still there's nothing on worth watching at times).
It's way past time to review this relic of the 50s and determine whether or
not we might be able to save 1/3 of a Billion dollars per year by
recommending that this become a for-profit venture with advertising, or
remain non-profit, but change its programming model to include commercial
sponsorship.





+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 22:06:21 -0500, Joe Bleau
wrote:

On 31 Jan 2007 05:57:50 -0800, "Olebiker" wrote:


Our local PBS channel in Tallahassee (also on Comcast cable) carries
NYW. Have you checked out The Woodworking Channel at http://
www.thewoodworkingchannel.com/

Dick Durbin


Wow! Thanks a lot for turning me on to thewoodworkingchannel.com. I
went to check it out and ended up watching 2 hours of programming.
Screw NPR, CPB, PBS, Comcast, Direct TV and all the rest of the
dinosaur media. The future is upon us.

The future repeats itself continously, pausing sporadically to buffer?

Don't get me wrong there's some neat stuff sprinkled in there.

Then there's the "Look, it's a Festool sander. It's better than
yours. Too bad you'll never be able to afford it" and the "Let's see
how many ways we can use a pocket hole jig. Some of them even make
sense!"


-Leuf

Now, here's the downside. Once you have watched everything on the
woodworking channel, wait a year before going back to the site. They
occasionally have something different but the majority of it has been
running for about a year, over and over.

"Joe Bleau" wrote in message
...

Wow! Thanks a lot for turning me on to thewoodworkingchannel.com. I
went to check it out and ended up watching 2 hours of programming.
Screw NPR, CPB, PBS, Comcast, Direct TV and all the rest of the
dinosaur media. The future is upon us.

Joe

On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 23:39:45 -0500, Leuf
wrote:


The future repeats itself continously, pausing sporadically to buffer?

Don't get me wrong there's some neat stuff sprinkled in there.

Then there's the "Look, it's a Festool sander. It's better than
yours. Too bad you'll never be able to afford it" and the "Let's see
how many ways we can use a pocket hole jig. Some of them even make
sense!"


-Leuf


I agree. I recognized the commercial promotion. The guy spent hours
making pocket holes to build a mantle. I would have done it with my
nail gun and construction adhesive and it would have looked just as
good---better because I would have used raised panels and panel
molding instead of the stamped molding he used. He could have put
construction adhesive on the rails and stiles and nailed them directly
to the wall. Nail holes are easy to fill if you are going to paint.
And, since it was all paint grade I would have used MDF for the rails,
stiles and panels. It just occurred to me that you might not know what
I am referring to. When I was watching a guy was building a mantle
dressed out with 9 ft. pilasters and flat panels.

But, it takes money to keep a site like that running and it has to
come for somewhere. I just hope the site operators don't load it up
with advertising to such a degree that it's no longer worth watching.

Joe

What you're missing is that the government decides what is and is not
a charity eligible for deductible donations. By deciding that PBS or
NPR stations are eligible they are willingly foregoing tax revenue.

I understand that, but were you making the point that federal
tax dollars in some indirect way (thru tax deductions) were
flowing to PBS stations? If so, I disagree. Listing as
a tax deductable non-profit org. is a listing on the
federal tax register. No money goes to my favorite
charity or non-profit unless I MAKE it so. The
government is neutral. It doesn''t care less if I give
to a religious or save-the-whales org. There's no
direct support other than how YOU decide.

The bottom line, the PBS station in your area needs your
money more than it needs the feds money. Most stations,
I believe have bigger payrolls, rents, insurance then
what the fed provides.

MJ Wallace

On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 00:01:48 -0500, Joe Bleau
wrote:

On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 23:39:45 -0500, Leuf
wrote:

Then there's the "Look, it's a Festool sander. It's better than
yours. Too bad you'll never be able to afford it" and the "Let's see
how many ways we can use a pocket hole jig. Some of them even make
sense!"

I agree. I recognized the commercial promotion. The guy spent hours
making pocket holes to build a mantle. snip

That's the one I was referring to. There was another where the guy
basically just sanded a panel with a Festool sander for a minute, then
they paused to tell us that ad for Festool was brought to you by
Festool. The guy did have some skills going after the bevel edges of
the panel with the ROS. Or possibly he destroyed the thing. Too
small and blurry to tell.

I realize they have to have ads, and it's better to have them be
related to the subject. People are smart enough to figure out what's
an ad.

I really enjoyed the turning "scoop" or whatever he called it.


-Leuf

"Ol Pete" wrote in message
...
Your analysis reminds me of the sort of spin conservative talk radio
progpagates. It isn't reality based but it sure is emotionally satisfying.


Closer to reality than people who speak of "avoiding taxes" and "not paying
a fair share" and "corporate welfare" as if money were never earned, only
granted by government denying that moneys diverted from the revenue stream
are as much a subsidy as money allocated.

George wrote:

Then there are the
sponsors who supply production money - for a write-off

Any business owner will tell you it's cheaper to pay the tax than to
give money away simply for the purposes of "writing it off". G

On 31 Jan 2007 21:09:36 -0800, "
wrote:

What you're missing is that the government decides what is and is not
a charity eligible for deductible donations. By deciding that PBS or
NPR stations are eligible they are willingly foregoing tax revenue.

I understand that, but were you making the point that federal
tax dollars in some indirect way (thru tax deductions) were
flowing to PBS stations? If so, I disagree. Listing as
a tax deductable non-profit org. is a listing on the
federal tax register. No money goes to my favorite
charity or non-profit unless I MAKE it so. The
government is neutral. It doesn''t care less if I give
to a religious or save-the-whales org. There's no
direct support other than how YOU decide.

The bottom line, the PBS station in your area needs your
money more than it needs the feds money. Most stations,
I believe have bigger payrolls, rents, insurance then
what the fed provides.

So you're saying that the Corporation for Public Broadcasting gets no
money from the government? When did that stop?

MJ Wallace

wrote in message

The bottom line, the PBS station in your area needs your
money more than it needs the feds money. Most stations,
I believe have bigger payrolls, rents, insurance then
what the fed provides.

Judging from the Taj Mahal built for upper management's offices here, what
they really *need* is to lose the arrogance that comes with suckling on the
public tit.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 1/27/07

todd wrote:
"JMS" wrote in message news:GD7wh.9953$Hb6.9363@trndny02...
The 2007 US Federal budget is about $983B (that is billion with a B). The
CPB budget is about $347M (million with a M).

The math works out to about 0.036% of the total budget. That is a
rounding error.

In the era of $250M Alaskan bridges to nowhere there are far more
appropriate targets for your energy and anger other than the CPB.

Try taking a look here for some more egregious targets for your zeal.

http://thebudgetgraph.com/

Since it's so insignificant, please multiply your family income by .036% and
mail it to me. Email me for the address.

todd



Enjoy the tank and a half of gas it will buy, you tool. Percentage
effect and the law of large numbers.

Mark & Juanita wrote:
Well, just from your comment alone, cutting CPB budget would more than
pay for that $250M Alaskan Bridge to nowhere.

And that is a good thing? Just trying to understand if you are tough,
dumb or both.



+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 22:38:36 GMT, "George" wrote:


"JMS" wrote in message news:GD7wh.9953$Hb6.9363@trndny02...
J. Clarke wrote:

NPR and PBS are both supported by CPB.

J. Clarke wrote:


NPR and PBS are both supported by CPB.

So?

The 2007 US Federal budget is about $983B (that is billion with a B). The
CPB budget is about $347M (million with a M).

The math works out to about 0.036% of the total budget. That is a
rounding error.

In the era of $250M Alaskan bridges to nowhere there are far more
appropriate targets for your energy and anger other than the CPB.

Try taking a look here for some more egregious targets for your zeal.

http://thebudgetgraph.com/

Try not to obfuscate. The government also supports by lost taxes on
donations, and many states give a direct tax credit. Then there are the
sponsors who supply production money - for a write-off ... goes on and on.


The "underwriters" of the show provide money for the production of the
show. they are allowed recognition that is regulated with regard to
both length and content. It is appropriate that the show use the
equipment that the underwriter has supplied, without any additional
promotion other than its normal use. The opportunity for exaggeration
or downright lying is nonexistent. It is a legitimate business
expense.

OTOH Those underwriters could choose to forego the PBS productions and
take out additional ads in FWW or other Mags. Or they could sponsor a
race car, with opportunities to wine and dine their larger
distributors These are also legitimate business expenses and all
manner of exaggeration and other activities that do not further the
end users knowledge are prevalent.

I believe I would encourage the former.

How many of you make your tool buying decisions based on what you see
on a NASCAR hood?

Frank

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
et...
George wrote:

Then there are the sponsors who supply production money - for a
write-off

Any business owner will tell you it's cheaper to pay the tax than to give
money away simply for the purposes of "writing it off". G

The point was that it was money denied the government, and thus equivalent
to government subsidy.

Depends on your tax situation whether you report it as advertising expense,
which it can be here, or as donation.

Sidebar further off topic. On NPR this morning the commentator mentioned
that Litvinenko had been poisoned with, and enunciated for emphasis
"plutonium" rather than polonium. Big difference in availability which was
hopefully not by intent or implication.

George wrote:

Depends on your tax situation whether you report it as advertising
expense, which it can be here, or as donation.

How's that, George?

We're talking about a business expense in either case.

I eagerly await your explanation.

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
. net...
George wrote:

Depends on your tax situation whether you report it as advertising
expense, which it can be here, or as donation.

How's that, George?

We're talking about a business expense in either case.

I eagerly await your explanation.

Not for tax here. BTDT, hope the accountants were right, or the statute of
limitations has expired.

On Feb 1, 7:52 am, B A R R Y wrote:
George wrote:

Then there are the
sponsors who supply production money - for a write-off

Any business owner will tell you it's cheaper to pay the tax than to
give money away simply for the purposes of "writing it off". G

I find the biggest problem with 'write-offs' is that you have to make
a taxable profit first before you get to write anything off.
A deduction at low-level income doesn't have the same effect as a
deduction which moves you into a lower bracket.
I just hear this ****, because I operate as a non-profit. G Not
supposed to be a non-profit...but, good thing the Sprinter Dodge vans
use Mercedes parts...if you know what I mean.

On Feb 1, 8:51 am, "Swingman" wrote:
wrote in message
The bottom line, the PBS station in your area needs your
money more than it needs the feds money. Most stations,
I believe have bigger payrolls, rents, insurance then
what the fed provides.

Judging from the Taj Mahal built for upper management's offices here, what
they really *need* is to lose the arrogance that comes with suckling on the
public tit.

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 1/27/07

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o290/Robatoy/AYI.jpg

LRod wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 23:54:43 GMT, John Siegel
wrote:


Cable here in NJ has been showing Woodturning Workshop from (I think)
channel 21 in Long Island.
However the show appears to be affiliated with Rutgers. I do not know if
theses are old shows or if more are being made since recent shows have
been repeats. There has been some very nice photography showing quite
clearly the tool presentation on the work piece.


If you're talking about the one with Tim Yoder as the host, that's out
of Rogers State University in Oklahoma. I like that a lot. He cracks
me up every time he tries to pronounce cyanoacrylate and I like his
teaching "always sneak up on a bead."

It's a far better show than "Woodturning Techniques" which was on DIY
for quite a while.

From the program notes incuded on my satellite, the first ones aired
about a year ago, and it seems like they have around 15 or 20 in the
can.

I get it on my third of three PBS stations.


Yes that is the one. THe latest one to show/repeat here was the episode
about felling
a tree.
John