Striving for perfection is one thing. Being dissapointed when you
don't attain it is quite another. But how do you curb your own
excessive fussiness?

I'm getting more and more into making little wood boxes for jewelery,
trinkets, etc. Average size 6" X 4", but can be as big/small as
required. Here are some examples of what I've done in utili, oak, ash,
purpleheart, yew.

http://foggytown.spaces.msn.com/photos/?_c02_owner=1

I'd like to turn this hobby into some kind of earner by doing
made-to-measure boxes to order. My big problem is that I'm rarely
satisfied with my work and I assume that a potential customer will be
even more critical than I am. Friends & relations I've shown my stuff
to think its very good but I just can't get past the little
imperfections I know are the a slightly loose joint requiring some
filler; a blemish on the oil finish where a spot of glue on the wood
wasn't noticed; couple of small "hard" spots on the velvet interior
where some glue dripped.

Question for the wreckers here who do pieces for customers. Are you
ever truly satisfied with your work to the point where you think it
will probably be rejected? Or am I overestimating the capacity of the
public to be critical of something they can't do to begin with?

FoggyTown

foggytown wrote:
Striving for perfection is one thing. Being dissapointed when you
don't attain it is quite another. But how do you curb your own
excessive fussiness?

I'm getting more and more into making little wood boxes for jewelery,
trinkets, etc. Average size 6" X 4", but can be as big/small as
required. Here are some examples of what I've done in utili, oak, ash,
purpleheart, yew.

http://foggytown.spaces.msn.com/photos/?_c02_owner=1

I'd like to turn this hobby into some kind of earner by doing
made-to-measure boxes to order. My big problem is that I'm rarely
satisfied with my work and I assume that a potential customer will be
even more critical than I am. Friends & relations I've shown my stuff
to think its very good but I just can't get past the little
imperfections I know are the a slightly loose joint requiring some
filler; a blemish on the oil finish where a spot of glue on the wood
wasn't noticed; couple of small "hard" spots on the velvet interior
where some glue dripped.

Question for the wreckers here who do pieces for customers. Are you
ever truly satisfied with your work to the point where you think it
will probably be rejected? Or am I overestimating the capacity of the
public to be critical of something they can't do to begin with?

FoggyTown

G'day Foggy,
I had the exact same feelings about my work as you do.
I finally got convinced to take some of my stuff to the local street market.
It sold like hot cakes and people complemented me on the quality
continuesly.
Even people that never bought anything still commented on the quality of
the work.
Only a few months after that 1st market I started taking custom orders
and have never looked back.

So my suggestion is, take some gear to a local market or a Trash and
Treasure and see how it does. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

All The best
John

"foggytown" wrote in message
ups.com...



Question for the wreckers here who do pieces for customers. Are you
ever truly satisfied with your work to the point where you think it
will probably be rejected? Or am I overestimating the capacity of the
public to be critical of something they can't do to begin with?

FoggyTown


Well your work certainly looks nice enough. Why was I picturing a pine box
that was nailed together? :~)

With volume will come the skill to foresee and prevent mistakes before you
make them. Like any thing else, practice and repetition makes you faster
and more efficient.

And, yes, I think you are over estimating the publics expectations. I truly
believe that 95% of the people think Ikea is high end stuff. I have a
sister and brother-in-law that were in the furniture business for several
years selling "expensive" furniture. Their preferred style is that rustic
used diesel oil stained pine crap with rusty hinges and pulls imported from
Mexico.

I have seen very nice jewelry boxes similar to yours in jewelry stores that
were perfect as far as I was concerned but they started out at $800.00 and
went up from there.

"foggytown" wrote in message
....
Striving for perfection is one thing. Being dissapointed when you
don't attain it is quite another. But how do you curb your own
excessive fussiness?

http://foggytown.spaces.msn.com/photos/?_c02_owner=1

I'd like to turn this hobby into some kind of earner by doing
made-to-measure boxes to order. My big problem is that I'm rarely
satisfied with my work and I assume that a potential customer will be
even more critical than I am.

There are imperfections in everything. I know how you feel though, as I'm
always critical of what I do. You have to be realistic though. I look at
what I made, know what can be done the next time, and admire what I did this
time. Others rarely see the little imperfections.

Only one piece of advice about taking orders. When you take your hobby to
business status, the fun may go out of it. For some people, their hobby can
become a rewarding career doing what they want to do. For others, it becomes
just another job, full of deadlines, and they find they no longer have a
hobby or time for themselves.

I'm like you. I had to teach myself to strive for perfection but be
satisfied and proud of excellence.

Zz


On 18 Jun 2006 02:57:22 -0700, "foggytown" wrote:

Striving for perfection is one thing. Being dissapointed when you
don't attain it is quite another. But how do you curb your own
excessive fussiness?

I'm getting more and more into making little wood boxes for jewelery,
trinkets, etc. Average size 6" X 4", but can be as big/small as
required. Here are some examples of what I've done in utili, oak, ash,
purpleheart, yew.

http://foggytown.spaces.msn.com/photos/?_c02_owner=1

I'd like to turn this hobby into some kind of earner by doing
made-to-measure boxes to order. My big problem is that I'm rarely
satisfied with my work and I assume that a potential customer will be
even more critical than I am. Friends & relations I've shown my stuff
to think its very good but I just can't get past the little
imperfections I know are the a slightly loose joint requiring some
filler; a blemish on the oil finish where a spot of glue on the wood
wasn't noticed; couple of small "hard" spots on the velvet interior
where some glue dripped.

Question for the wreckers here who do pieces for customers. Are you
ever truly satisfied with your work to the point where you think it
will probably be rejected? Or am I overestimating the capacity of the
public to be critical of something they can't do to begin with?

FoggyTown

On 18 Jun 2006 02:57:22 -0700, "foggytown" wrote:

A couple of "confidence builders"..

I had the same problem with my wood turning... I found out that the only people
who find/mention small flaws are the people the have the same hobby... and they
aren't the ones that will buy your stuff, anyway..

Look at paintings and prints in a good quality furniture store... the miters and
joints in the frames are probably way worse that yours are... but they sell and
nobody cares if the lines show...

Striving for perfection is one thing. Being dissapointed when you
don't attain it is quite another. But how do you curb your own
excessive fussiness?

I'm getting more and more into making little wood boxes for jewelery,
trinkets, etc. Average size 6" X 4", but can be as big/small as
required. Here are some examples of what I've done in utili, oak, ash,
purpleheart, yew.

http://foggytown.spaces.msn.com/photos/?_c02_owner=1

I'd like to turn this hobby into some kind of earner by doing
made-to-measure boxes to order. My big problem is that I'm rarely
satisfied with my work and I assume that a potential customer will be
even more critical than I am. Friends & relations I've shown my stuff
to think its very good but I just can't get past the little
imperfections I know are the a slightly loose joint requiring some
filler; a blemish on the oil finish where a spot of glue on the wood
wasn't noticed; couple of small "hard" spots on the velvet interior
where some glue dripped.

Question for the wreckers here who do pieces for customers. Are you
ever truly satisfied with your work to the point where you think it
will probably be rejected? Or am I overestimating the capacity of the
public to be critical of something they can't do to begin with?

FoggyTown

Mac

https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

On 18 Jun 2006 02:57:22 -0700, "foggytown" wrote:

Striving for perfection is one thing. Being dissapointed when you
don't attain it is quite another. But how do you curb your own
excessive fussiness?

I don't, I just get grumpy when I make little errors, and usually
remake the piece.

I'd like to turn this hobby into some kind of earner by doing
made-to-measure boxes to order. My big problem is that I'm rarely
satisfied with my work and I assume that a potential customer will be
even more critical than I am. Friends & relations I've shown my stuff
to think its very good but I just can't get past the little
imperfections I know are the a slightly loose joint requiring some
filler; a blemish on the oil finish where a spot of glue on the wood
wasn't noticed; couple of small "hard" spots on the velvet interior
where some glue dripped.

Grumpy or no, I've found that I'm the only one who can see things like
that- and that's while playing show and tell with other woodworkers.
They have the same problem- they see stuff I'd never notice, because
they made it.

Question for the wreckers here who do pieces for customers. Are you
ever truly satisfied with your work to the point where you think it
will probably be rejected? Or am I overestimating the capacity of the
public to be critical of something they can't do to begin with?

You're overestimating. Do it honestly and charge a fair price, and
you'll be fine. I think most people have the same problem when it
comes to this.

On 18 Jun 2006 02:57:22 -0700, "foggytown" wrote:

Striving for perfection is one thing. Being dissapointed when you
don't attain it is quite another. But how do you curb your own
excessive fussiness?



I'm glad you see your mistakes. Most people who see my stuff, no
matter how bad I think it looks, are impressed. And like another
post, most people see Ikea as high end. I used to sit on the couch
looking at my pieces and finding new flaws months after they were
built. Then one day I went to pricey furniture store and looked at
the 'quality' furniture. When I compared the fit of the production
jointery to my 'one off' jointery, my little flaws seemed to pale in
comparison. I then went to a shop that sold 'antique' (a pretentious
word meaning used or secondhand), and some of the stuff made years ago
have some of my mistakes. I stop looking at my work and just move
on. I'm just as happy making things that most people can't even
visualize.

Pete - I only use the nail gun until the glue dries.

On 18 Jun 2006 02:57:22 -0700, "foggytown" wrote:

Striving for perfection is one thing. Being dissapointed when you
don't attain it is quite another. But how do you curb your own
excessive fussiness?

"Aim for perfection, settle for excellence"

I'm getting more and more into making little wood boxes for jewelery,
trinkets, etc. Average size 6" X 4", but can be as big/small as
required. Here are some examples of what I've done in utili, oak, ash,
purpleheart, yew.

http://foggytown.spaces.msn.com/photos/?_c02_owner=1

Well we aren't going to be able to see any problems unless you had a
better camera, and even then we probably wouldn't see them.

I'd like to turn this hobby into some kind of earner by doing
made-to-measure boxes to order. My big problem is that I'm rarely
satisfied with my work and I assume that a potential customer will be
even more critical than I am. Friends & relations I've shown my stuff
to think its very good but I just can't get past the little
imperfections I know are the a slightly loose joint requiring some
filler; a blemish on the oil finish where a spot of glue on the wood
wasn't noticed; couple of small "hard" spots on the velvet interior
where some glue dripped.

Question for the wreckers here who do pieces for customers. Are you
ever truly satisfied with your work to the point where you think it
will probably be rejected? Or am I overestimating the capacity of the
public to be critical of something they can't do to begin with?

What I've found is someone who is paying for a custom piece has
already sort of mentally sold themselves into liking it before they
even see it. If it's not a custom piece they are mainly just looking
to see if they like it, not looking for problems. Whereas you already
know everything about it, so all you see are the problems. Try
sticking one in a closet somewhere until you've forgotten about it,
then pull it out and see if the flaws still jump out at you. You'll
find them again, but you'll have to look for them.

You have the right attitude as far as wanting to be sure you're giving
them something deserving of their money. As long as you aren't
looking at it from the opposite direction, what's the minimum I need
to do to make a sale, you're going to be fine.

The trouble with small boxes is we look at them up close. You don't
pick up a dresser you built and hold it up to your eye and spin it
about looking for problems.

Keep working to do better, and that never ends, but you gotta learn to
let go when the piece is done.

One tip: Have your finishing area well lit and be looking for
problems as you're applying the finish. You can basically wet sand
those glue spots right as you're finishing and they disappear right
before your eyes. Then give it a critical look over before the second
coat.

My last comissioned jewelry box I had problems with the finish. Had
to sand it down and do it over. Still wasn't happy with it. I really
wanted to sand it down again, but at this point I'm a week late.
Shipped it. Client was totally pleased and wants me to do more work
for them.


-Leuf

Question for the wreckers here who do pieces for customers. Are you
ever truly satisfied with your work to the point where you think it
will probably be rejected? Or am I overestimating the capacity of the
public to be critical of something they can't do to begin with?

Earlier this year I made a small coffee table to donate to a charity
auction.
When I assembled it, it simply wasn't square. If it was for myself or a
paying customer I would have remade it, but I wasn't going to remake
something I was giving away.

Three people bid it up to $500; evidently they didn't see it as out of
square.
So yeah, I think the craftsman is too hard on himself; but of course I
haven't seen your work.

One tip: Have your finishing area well lit and be looking for
problems as you're applying the finish. You can basically wet sand
those glue spots right as you're finishing and they disappear right
before your eyes. Then give it a critical look over before the second
coat.

Please excuse my ignorance, but what do you mean by "wet sand those glue
spots right as you're finishing"?
Does the glue spot show up when you're applying the finish, and you sand it
while the finish is still wet?

- Owen -

foggytown wrote:

Striving for perfection is one thing. Being dissapointed when you
don't attain it is quite another. But how do you curb your own
excessive fussiness?

I'm getting more and more into making little wood boxes for jewelery,
trinkets, etc. Average size 6" X 4", but can be as big/small as
required. Here are some examples of what I've done in utili, oak, ash,
purpleheart, yew.

http://foggytown.spaces.msn.com/photos/?_c02_owner=1

I'd like to turn this hobby into some kind of earner by doing
made-to-measure boxes to order. My big problem is that I'm rarely
satisfied with my work and I assume that a potential customer will be
even more critical than I am. Friends & relations I've shown my stuff
to think its very good but I just can't get past the little
imperfections I know are the a slightly loose joint requiring some
filler; a blemish on the oil finish where a spot of glue on the wood
wasn't noticed; couple of small "hard" spots on the velvet interior
where some glue dripped.

Question for the wreckers here who do pieces for customers. Are you
ever truly satisfied with your work to the point where you think it
will probably be rejected? Or am I overestimating the capacity of the
public to be critical of something they can't do to begin with?

In any line of work, the workman, if he cares at all about what he does, is
usually his own worst critic. Your boxes look fine to me. Better than I
can do at this point. Your photography, though, . . .


--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 15:46:55 -0400, "Owen Lawrence"
wrote:

One tip: Have your finishing area well lit and be looking for
problems as you're applying the finish. You can basically wet sand
those glue spots right as you're finishing and they disappear right
before your eyes. Then give it a critical look over before the second
coat.

Please excuse my ignorance, but what do you mean by "wet sand those glue
spots right as you're finishing"?
Does the glue spot show up when you're applying the finish, and you sand it
while the finish is still wet?

Yes the glue spots become very obvious with the finish. What I used
to do was leave it be until the first coat dried, then come back and
sand and refinish that area, let that dry and then go on with the
second coat. Sometimes by the time you come back to sand the glue
spots you've already forgotten where they were and maybe you miss one,
then you see it again doing the second coat... and it's hard to tell
whether you've sanded it enough. If you do it right then with the
finish still wet you don't miss any and as you sand it once you've
done enough the finish gets absorbed and matches the surrounding wood
so you know exactly when to stop. I wipe the excess finish off before
sanding with a paper towel, sand, wipe the dust off again with a paper
towel and then reapply the finish over the area


-Leuf.

Striving for perfection is one thing. Being dissapointed when you
don't attain it is quite another. But how do you curb your own
excessive fussiness?

It's entirely likely that most people will not notice the imperfections
that you may see. They'll just appreciate the quality work.

I don't do woodworking all that much, but I have taken on some
significant projects, including building a 20-string acoustic guitar,
from scratch.

I could show you a dozen places on that thing that just make me cringe.
But most people, to be honest, are just blown away by what they see.
And in retrospect now, I marvel at the fact that I actually finished
it.

From another perspective, don't the teeny imperfections add the
'assurance' that what you're looking at was done with human hands? as
opposed to the cold perfection of manufacture?

As a friend of mine once said - "Art is never completed; it is
abandoned."

"foggytown" wrote in news:1150624642.064242.16130
@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

Striving for perfection is one thing. Being dissapointed when you
don't attain it is quite another. But how do you curb your own
excessive fussiness?

I'm getting more and more into making little wood boxes for jewelery,
trinkets, etc. Average size 6" X 4", but can be as big/small as
required. Here are some examples of what I've done in utili, oak, ash,
purpleheart, yew.

http://foggytown.spaces.msn.com/photos/?_c02_owner=1

I'd like to turn this hobby into some kind of earner by doing
made-to-measure boxes to order. My big problem is that I'm rarely
satisfied with my work and I assume that a potential customer will be
even more critical than I am. Friends & relations I've shown my stuff
to think its very good but I just can't get past the little
imperfections I know are the a slightly loose joint requiring some
filler; a blemish on the oil finish where a spot of glue on the wood
wasn't noticed; couple of small "hard" spots on the velvet interior
where some glue dripped.

Question for the wreckers here who do pieces for customers. Are you
ever truly satisfied with your work to the point where you think it
will probably be rejected? Or am I overestimating the capacity of the
public to be critical of something they can't do to begin with?

FoggyTown


If you want perfection then it isn't handmade. It is CNC machined,
assembled in a factory with sprayed on glues, finishes, etc.

It it isn't perfect, then it is truly handmade and one of a kind.

Somewhere between the mechanics of woodworking and raw timber is art and
the artisan and only he can turn lumber into art.

FWIW

On 18 Jun 2006 02:57:22 -0700, "foggytown" wrote:

Striving for perfection is one thing. Being dissapointed when you
don't attain it is quite another. But how do you curb your own
excessive fussiness?

I'm getting more and more into making little wood boxes for jewelery,
trinkets, etc. Average size 6" X 4", but can be as big/small as
required. Here are some examples of what I've done in utili, oak, ash,
purpleheart, yew.

http://foggytown.spaces.msn.com/photos/?_c02_owner=1

I'd like to turn this hobby into some kind of earner by doing
made-to-measure boxes to order. My big problem is that I'm rarely
satisfied with my work and I assume that a potential customer will be
even more critical than I am. Friends & relations I've shown my stuff
to think its very good but I just can't get past the little
imperfections I know are the a slightly loose joint requiring some
filler; a blemish on the oil finish where a spot of glue on the wood
wasn't noticed; couple of small "hard" spots on the velvet interior
where some glue dripped.

Question for the wreckers here who do pieces for customers. Are you
ever truly satisfied with your work to the point where you think it
will probably be rejected? Or am I overestimating the capacity of the
public to be critical of something they can't do to begin with?

FoggyTown

These look nice based on what I can see but the pic quality is not
good so it is hard to see the details. If you are going to sell on the
internet you should do better with the pics.
A while back a furniture maker posted a message and I follwed his link
to viwe his site. His work looks acceptable but for sure the pics are
all doctored-up on photoshop or some other program.

On your question- I am never fully content with any result that I
get....I always feel I can improve. However, if you are going to sell
these boxes I feel filler or glue drips are not acceptable. To me
those are not minor imperfections.

J

Many thanx for all of the comments. And I freely admit to everyone
that I'm more at home with a router than I am with a digital camera.
I'll try that bit again!


FoggyTown

On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 04:56:27 GMT, "R. Pierce Butler"
wrote:
snip

If you want perfection then it isn't handmade. It is CNC machined,
assembled in a factory with sprayed on glues, finishes, etc.

It it isn't perfect, then it is truly handmade and one of a kind.

Somewhere between the mechanics of woodworking and raw timber is art and
the artisan and only he can turn lumber into art.

FWIW

Well Said!

If you want a bunch of identical boxes, go to Walmart or an Import place... hand
made, one-of-a-kind items are just that... YMWV
Mac

https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

On 19 Jun 2006 04:18:07 -0700, "foggytown" wrote:


Many thanx for all of the comments. And I freely admit to everyone
that I'm more at home with a router than I am with a digital camera.
I'll try that bit again!


FoggyTown

Just an opinion... I think that a balance between acceptable work and striving
to get better is a naturel process and desirable... but has to be tempered by
the realization that perfection is impossible..

Definition of a perfectionist:
One who takes great pains and gives them to others...
Mac

https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

I have heard that Shakers deliberately (?) included imperfections in
their work so that it was clear that it was not made by a human, not
God.

Mark

foggytown wrote:


Many thanx for all of the comments. And I freely admit to everyone
that I'm more at home with a router than I am with a digital camera.
I'll try that bit again!

FWIW, I seem to recall a disclaimer from a well known producer of hand made
leather goods (can't remember who now, it was a long, long time ago) to the
effect that the products will contain small imperfections and that these
show that they were hand made to order rather than churned out by a
machine.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"Mark Wells" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have heard that Shakers deliberately (?) included imperfections in
their work so that it was clear that it was not made by a human, not
God.

Mark


Come again?

Sun, Jun 18, 2006, 2:57am (EDT-3) (foggytown) doth
pondereth:
snip Question for the wreckers here who do pieces for customers. Are
you ever truly satisfied with your work to the point where you think it
will probably be rejected? Or am I overestimating the capacity of the
public to be critical of something they can't do to begin with?

Well, judging from the picture of that box, I can tell why your
stuf isn't selling. Some kind of blue mold or something in it. LOL

Judging from the quality of some of the stuff I've seen for sale,
and the hefty prices tacked on them, and actually sometimes selling, I'd
say just go ahead and sell your stuff - at a reasonable price - and just
keep on trying to improve it. I get people telling me how good some of
my stuff is, and it should really sell well - but they don't buy. The
quality of my work is certainly at least as good as most of the stuff
for sale out there, and a lot better than maybe 40-50% of what's out
there. So, I keep trying to improve what I make, changing the design,
etc. I feel good about my work, and don't let it bother me.
My problem is, I do NOT care for salespeople, at all, and have a
very hard time with the fact that I will have to "become" a salesperson
to sell my stuff. It's a moral issue, and I'll probably get over it. I
think what I need is someone who sells at a flea market to sell on
commission for me.



JOAT
Politician \Pol`i*ti"cian\, n. Latin for career criminal

Leon wrote:
"Mark Wells" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have heard that Shakers deliberately (?) included imperfections in
their work so that it was clear that it was not made by a human, not
God.

Mark


Come again?

I don't know about Shakers but that concept is certainly true about
Muslims. The prayer mats they weave always have an intentional mistake
in the weave because nothing on earth should be perfect but God.

THAT'S IT! I'll sell my stuff as Muslim holy trinket boxes complete
with God-pleasing imperfections.

FoggyTown

To me it is about humility. Trying to be perfect assumes that it is
possible to be perfect, which of course is not possible. Recognizing
that the things we make are imperfect reminds us that we aren't
perfect, either.

As others have mentioned, you could build boxes with a CNC machine
could probably be "perfect," but to me one of the reasons to make
pieces by hand is so that you can see the hand of the maker in the
item. Since the maker isn't perfect, the box isn't perfect, either.

I think what the Shakers were getting at is that if we assume that we
can make something that is perfect, then we are starting to put
ourselves in a position reserved for God. I am not familiar with it,
but the Muslim belief sounds similar.

(Of course I get just as upset about glue marks as you do.)

Mark

I'd prescribe a healthy dose of realism... Go window shopping

I think that most of the general public has no idea what constitutes
quality work. I've been in some of the "up scale" furniture stores
around here. The ones where a dining room set costs more than all my
shop. I've seen countless pieces with finishes *I* would not tolerate
on my work. Doors and drawers that don't quite line up. The list goes
on. The general public buys a lot of mass produced junk that's labeled
"heirloom".

Looking at jewelry boxes in the store, I've only once seen one or two
that I thought were really well done. Gorgeous burls, immaculate
finish, everything fitted together perfectly. The prices ranged
US$750.00-1250.00. I don't think they sold very many of those. The
$39.95, badly veneered, pine boxes, however, moved like hotcakes.

Take one of your pieces, place it next to a store bought piece. Look
how much better your joints fit, how even your finish, how much nicer
it looks. *That* is the typical customer's response.

That said, I do it too. Every little blemish stands out to me. When it
starts bugging me I go over to my little poplar and walnut book rack.
It was the first thing I built. I compare the "then" with the "now" and
take comfort in that while the "now" isn't perfect, it is getting
/better/.

dcm

foggytown wrote:
Striving for perfection is one thing. Being dissapointed when you
don't attain it is quite another. But how do you curb your own
excessive fussiness?
[...]
I'd like to turn this hobby into some kind of earner by doing
made-to-measure boxes to order. My big problem is that I'm rarely
satisfied with my work and I assume that a potential customer will be
even more critical than I am.
[...]
Question for the wreckers here who do pieces for customers. Are you
ever truly satisfied with your work to the point where you think it
will probably be rejected? Or am I overestimating the capacity of the
public to be critical of something they can't do to begin with?

"foggytown" wrote in message
oups.com...

Leon wrote:
"Mark Wells" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have heard that Shakers deliberately (?) included imperfections in
their work so that it was clear that it was not made by a human, not
God.

Mark


Come again?

I don't know about Shakers but that concept is certainly true about
Muslims. The prayer mats they weave always have an intentional mistake
in the weave because nothing on earth should be perfect but God.

A careful examination of Shaker furniture will not show too many pieces that
are "perfect." They were trying to make a living and as efficiently as
possible. The degree of skill likely varied as much within the Shaker
community as it did elsewhere. Over-cut pins on blind dovetails, dovetail
pins on compound angles cut perpendicular to the angle rather than in line
with the grain, dovetails that end on half tails instead of half pins,
"designs" that almost defy logic... all can be found. I've got photos of
some of these things and books like John Kassay's "The Book of Shaker
Furniture" have photos and measured drawings showing other of the defects in
workmanship.

It is not my intent to "slam" the Shakers by any means. I'm actually a huge
fan of their work and admire them for the dedication to their faith. I also
let my mind wander while walking around places like Hancock Shaker Village
and the Shaker Museum and Library and can almost hear them at work....

As one of the guys said during the handcut dovetail class I taught last
weekend "Who has to deliberately make mistakes in their work?"

John

On 19 Jun 2006 07:33:17 -0700, "Mark Wells" wrote:

I have heard that Shakers deliberately (?) included imperfections in
their work so that it was clear that it was not made by a human, not
God.

Mark

hmm... I'll have to remember that excuse.. *g*
Mac

https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm