On my list of remaining tools to buy are some planes. I've been mainly
a normite up until now, but inheirited a jackplane which has gotten me
interested in hand tools. So much so, I bought a tormek which has made
all the difference in the world for my chisels. After watching Roy
Underhill and much thought, I've decided to add a few specialty planes
to the collection.

So I guess I have two questions. What planes would you recommend, and
who is a good source for specialty planes, since I can't seem to find
any online?

For example, I think I need a smoothing plane, spoke shave, and a
cabinet scraper. I think I could probably pass on the planes designed
for smoothing rough lumber since I'm most likely to use the jointer and
planer, then switch to the planes for finer work. Basically, I'd like
to avoid sanding while using planes in situations where it's not much
slower than setting up a machine. For example, using a jointer plane
to edge-joint two boards. I'm also liking the veritas shoulder planes.

For the specialty planes, I see lee valley has a router plane that
looks nice. I'd like to find a good (and probably expensive)
combination plane. I can see cutting grooves in rails shaker style
rails and styles with this rather than setting up the router. Maybe a
plough plane. Something for making dados, or even sliding dovetails.
A bunch of planes for making details like beads and coves, although the
combination could probably do this. Then roy was demonstrating a
matched set of tongue and groove planes. Anyway, where do I get this
stuff? Who still makes them?

brian

"brianlanning" wrote in message
oups.com...
On my list of remaining tools to buy are some planes. I've been mainly
a normite up until now, but inheirited a jackplane which has gotten me
interested in hand tools. So much so, I bought a tormek which has made
all the difference in the world for my chisels. After watching Roy
Underhill and much thought, I've decided to add a few specialty planes
to the collection.
snip

http://www.planemaker.com/

They will knock your socks off.

"brianlanning" wrote in message
oups.com...
On my list of remaining tools to buy are some planes. I've been mainly
a normite up until now, but inheirited a jackplane which has gotten me
interested in hand tools. So much so, I bought a tormek which has made
all the difference in the world for my chisels. After watching Roy
Underhill and much thought, I've decided to add a few specialty planes
to the collection.

So I guess I have two questions. What planes would you recommend, and
who is a good source for specialty planes, since I can't seem to find
any online?

For example, I think I need a smoothing plane, spoke shave, and a
cabinet scraper. I think I could probably pass on the planes designed
for smoothing rough lumber since I'm most likely to use the jointer and
planer, then switch to the planes for finer work. Basically, I'd like
to avoid sanding while using planes in situations where it's not much
slower than setting up a machine. For example, using a jointer plane
to edge-joint two boards. I'm also liking the veritas shoulder planes.

For the specialty planes, I see lee valley has a router plane that
looks nice. I'd like to find a good (and probably expensive)
combination plane. I can see cutting grooves in rails shaker style
rails and styles with this rather than setting up the router. Maybe a
plough plane. Something for making dados, or even sliding dovetails.
A bunch of planes for making details like beads and coves, although the
combination could probably do this. Then roy was demonstrating a
matched set of tongue and groove planes. Anyway, where do I get this
stuff? Who still makes them?

brian


It sounds like you have the woodworking bug bad, congratulations! My
suggesstion is to slow way down and invest in wood instead of tools. Pick
projects to work on instead of drooling over the tool porn catalogs. With
each project you will develop new skills and interests. Let the projects
lead you to the correct tools to purchase.

I mean I can't find the specialty stuff. I've seen all the sites you
mention. Everyone has jack planes, jointer planes, smoothing planes
and the like. But where can I get a combination plane? I mean, other
than ebay. Or the tongue and groove planes similar to the antiques
that roy underhill was using?

brian

"brianlanning" wrote:

I mean I can't find the specialty stuff. I've seen all the sites you
mention. Everyone has jack planes, jointer planes, smoothing planes
and the like. But where can I get a combination plane? I mean, other
than ebay. Or the tongue and groove planes similar to the antiques
that roy underhill was using?

Try he

http://www.knight-toolworks.com/speciality.htm


brian

I mean I can't find the specialty stuff. I've seen all the sites you
mention. Everyone has jack planes, jointer planes, smoothing planes
and the like. But where can I get a combination plane? I mean, other
than ebay. Or the tongue and groove planes similar to the antiques
that roy underhill was using?

brian


For new T&G planes I agree with Lowell's mentioning, you would have to talk
to them. There is also the Clifton multi-plane made by Clico tooling in England
but no one stocks it anymore because it was far too expensive, to the tune of
$869.xx -aroos...you know. But any company that used to stock it should be able
to order one. http://www.tools-for-woodworking.com/ Is Highland Hardware,
they had it. Any Clifton dealer can get it.

There is also Anant multi-planes made in India and no doubt utter garbage, which
would take massive amounts of fettling and tuning to make it work properly.
Anant is also sold by HH.

That's about it. Otherwise it's the bay or online old tool sellers, local junk shops,
antique malls and yard sales. That's where it's at.

--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

"AAvK" wrote:


I mean I can't find the specialty stuff. I've seen all the sites you
mention. Everyone has jack planes, jointer planes, smoothing planes
and the like. But where can I get a combination plane? I mean,
other than ebay. Or the tongue and groove planes similar to the
antiques that roy underhill was using?

brian


For new T&G planes I agree with Lowell's mentioning, you would have to
talk to them. There is also the Clifton multi-plane made by Clico
tooling in England but no one stocks it anymore because it was far too
expensive, to the tune of $869.xx -aroos...you know. But any company
that used to stock it should be able to order one.
http://www.tools-for-woodworking.com/ Is Highland Hardware, they had
it. Any Clifton dealer can get it.

There is also Anant multi-planes made in India and no doubt utter
garbage, which would take massive amounts of fettling and tuning to
make it work properly. Anant is also sold by HH.

That's about it. Otherwise it's the bay or online old tool sellers,
local junk shops, antique malls and yard sales. That's where it's at.


No, that's not all. There is Steve Knight:

http://www.knight-toolworks.com/graphics/plowplane2.jpg for $250

All you need to do is add whatever hand made irons you *really* need or
want.

No, that's not all. There is Steve Knight:

http://www.knight-toolworks.com/graphics/plowplane2.jpg for $250

All you need to do is add whatever hand made irons you *really* need or
want.


YES but that is a *plow plane*, pertinent to the OP request, there is a big
difference. Unless it is viable to get into grinding and hardening blades of
other shapes that will fit it...or paying extra for them. Could work.

--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

On 31/01/2006 11:30 PM, brianlanning wrote:

But where can I get a combination plane? I mean, other
than ebay.

Nothin' wrong with eBay. I've bought 2 really nice Stanley 45's there in
the past while for less than $200 each. One was complete (well, except
for the nosing tool and the hollows and rounds, which were always
optional extras), one was missing a couple of parts that I was easily
able to find and buy inexpensively, also on eBay. (Before you ask,
they're not for sale; one's mine and the second was for my sin-in-law).
You just have to be patient and watch the sellers' feedback, and ask
lots of questions. You can quickly get a sense of who's honest. Just for
fun I dragged out my old LV catalogues the other night. Back in '81/82 a
Record 405 (Stanley 45 equiv.) sold new for $400 CDN. If you want to
spend less for a 45, look for a Record 050C. Not as 'nice', but I used
one for years until I decided to get a 45. Still have it. Still use it.
You should be able to find a good one for $50-60.

"AAvK" wrote:

No, that's not all. There is Steve Knight:

http://www.knight-toolworks.com/graphics/plowplane2.jpg for $250

All you need to do is add whatever hand made irons you *really* need
or want.


YES but that is a *plow plane*, pertinent to the OP request, there is
a big difference. Unless it is viable to get into grinding and
hardening blades of other shapes that will fit it...or paying extra
for them. Could work.


Certainly would be cheaper than a Clifton. And how many people actually cut
their own molding by hand? If I wanted to do it, I'd much prefer wooden
molding planes and I own a Sargent 45 clone.

I've found a few of the planes from the links everyone's provided.
thanks. I'm a bit annoyed by the prices of some. Steve Knight seems
to have good prices, but $869 for a plane? That's just ridiculous.
One site had a set of moulding planes for around $2000. Mabye I should
go into the specialty plane making business. :-)

brian

I think at this point, the thing to do would be maybe to pick up a
combination plane somewhere with all the extra cutters. That would
suffice for the mouldings I think. Then a plough and dado plane in
addition to all the "normal" planes. I guess I need to start
garage-saling looking for some old planes.

brian

brianlanning wrote:

I've found a few of the planes from the links everyone's provided.
thanks. I'm a bit annoyed by the prices of some. Steve Knight seems
to have good prices, but $869 for a plane? That's just ridiculous.
One site had a set of moulding planes for around $2000. Mabye I should
go into the specialty plane making business. :-)

brian

Don't look at the price of a Sauer & Steiner!

dave

Is that the $8000 silliness I saw?

brian

On 1 Feb 2006 20:07:02 -0800, "brianlanning"
wrote:

I've found a few of the planes from the links everyone's provided.
thanks. I'm a bit annoyed by the prices of some. Steve Knight seems
to have good prices, but $869 for a plane? That's just ridiculous.
One site had a set of moulding planes for around $2000. Mabye I should
go into the specialty plane making business. :-)


Yep, you're sure to save as much money making planes (or make as much if
you are selling them) as you save making your own furniture. ;-)




+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

"brianlanning" wrote:

I've found a few of the planes from the links everyone's provided.
thanks. I'm a bit annoyed by the prices of some. Steve Knight seems
to have good prices, but $869 for a plane? That's just ridiculous.
One site had a set of moulding planes for around $2000. Mabye I should
go into the specialty plane making business. :-)

brian

Check out http://www.holteyplanes.com/
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

"brianlanning" wrote:

I think at this point, the thing to do would be maybe to pick up a
combination plane somewhere with all the extra cutters. That would
suffice for the mouldings I think. Then a plough and dado plane in
addition to all the "normal" planes. I guess I need to start
garage-saling looking for some old planes.

brian



Do you really Need a combination plane? Do you really think you will use
'all the extra cutters'? Are you really going to cut your own moulding? If
so, how much? Hundreds of feet per year or just a few? Picture doing
hundreds of feet by hand. Picture paying several hundred dollars to do a
few feet per year. Then think about a decent router and some bits.

brianlanning wrote:

Is that the $8000 silliness I saw?

brian

I saw one for over $3,000 Canadian. I guess they have other models.
Since they are out of my price range, I didn't investigate further.

Dave

Let me start with the #45 (or #55 if you want the Cadillac model)
Like a chisel plane, it has no "mouth" and no "chip breaker", both
needed for fine, controlled shavings. THAT means that the wood
must be as close to MDF as you can find because the iron WILL try
and follow the grain. Not a problem when cutting "downhill"
- but if the grain changes direction and you start cutting "uphill" . .
..

I picked up an old #45 at one of the City of Austin Garage
Sales - for a wopping $80. Also picked up the T&G plane
with the flip around fence (fence in position 1 to cut
the groove, flip it around and cut one side of the tongue
then go to the other side of the board and cut the other
side. Spent lots and lots of time getting all the "irons"
flat backed and sharp and still had "challenges" getting
them to work - even adequately.

But if you want to dabble a bit before jumping in with
both feet, check out the LN Beading Tool. It's a beautiful
shiny bronze spoke shave like tool with a set of neat
scraper/scratcher type cutters that'll do beads and half
round grooves, etc.

For the results these types of planes "do", a router
bit will do it a lot better and a lot faster with better
repeatability.

The larger of the two router planes is a tool that
lets you fine tune the depth of a dado or rabbet/
rebate. Also comes in handy for leveling the
"field"/background around a carving.

Another handy hand plane is an adjustable
mouth block plane. Chamfer/ease edges, chamfer
the ends of tenons to make it easier to align with
a mortise etc.. Better yet, the LN Rabbet Block
Plane - a block plane with a special iron that,
at the bottom 3/4 of an inch, is just slightly
wider than the plane body, which has openings
on both sides to accomodate the special iron.
Works like a block plane AND lets you trim
up tenons and deepen a rabbet/rebate a little.

A much overlooked neander tool is the marking
knife. Pencils are great for writing and drawing
but not good enough for joint layout marks AND
scribe lines can't be rubbed off - accidentally
or by intent. You want a "left" and "right" single
bevel knife, each with a long bevel and sharp
point.

just more to confuse you

charlie b

Charlie what about the No. 46, have you used one?

--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

"brianlanning" wrote in message
ups.com...
I think at this point, the thing to do would be maybe to pick up a
combination plane somewhere with all the extra cutters. That would
suffice for the mouldings I think. Then a plough and dado plane in
addition to all the "normal" planes. I guess I need to start
garage-saling looking for some old planes.


Molding planes were a specialty item even when they were the only option.
Accounts for their relative rarity, and their relatively good condition when
found. They were a cabinetmaker's necessity, and a significant expense.
The rest of the world just chamfered or rounded things over.

Oh yes, they also worked lousy in wood with any but the straightest grain,
which was much more commonly available then.

By a dust mask and go mechanical.

On 1 Feb 2006 20:09:32 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm,
"brianlanning" quickly quoth:

I think at this point, the thing to do would be maybe to pick up a
combination plane somewhere with all the extra cutters. That would
suffice for the mouldings I think. Then a plough and dado plane in
addition to all the "normal" planes. I guess I need to start
garage-saling looking for some old planes.

Ping me offline, Brian.


--
- Tom Mix Died For Your Sins -
--------------------------
http://diversify.com Comprehensive, Sin-free Website Development

Doug Payne wrote:
On 31/01/2006 11:30 PM, brianlanning wrote:

But where can I get a combination plane? I mean, other
than ebay.

Nothin' wrong with eBay. I've bought 2 really nice Stanley 45's there in
the past while for less than $200 each. One was complete (well, except
for the nosing tool and the hollows and rounds, which were always
optional extras), one was missing a couple of parts that I was easily
able to find and buy inexpensively, also on eBay. ...

I have to disagree with the "nothing wrong with Ebay comment."

Back when I was buyin on Ebay lot of sellers put the words "complete
and undamaged" into their descritptions even though they were
selling planes that were incomplete or damaged. In some cases
that was probably ignorance, some sellers perhaps do not know that
a #78 is supposed to have a depth stop and fillister. Certainly there
were a near equal number of seelers apologizing for the 'missing'
front blade on their #78s.

However a significant number were just plain careless, and some
were outright frauds.

I used to compare the descriptions to the pictures and when there
was a a discrepency I would send a_polite_ email pointing this out
to the buyer. E.g. a plane with a big chunk broken out of the cheek
described as 'undamaged'. About a third of the time there was no
reply from the seller. The two thirds that did reply were about
evenly dividen between "Thanks, we didn't notice/know and have
revised the description" and "**** off, if you don't like it don't bid
on it."

--

FF

be sure to discuss this with the winner

AAvK wrote:

Charlie what about the No. 46, have you used one?


Nope.

charlie b