I was cutting some 1/8x1/8 strips. I knew they would kick back pretty good
so I got anything breakable out of the way.

One hit the wall 8' back and then bounced 15' nearly hitting the opposite
wall. I wonder what kind of velocity is necessary for a trick like that.
The other 5 were less dramatic.

Yeh, I know I could have avoided it by cutting them off, rather than cutting
them; but the saw was setup perfectly from cutting them to width.

"Toller" wrote in message

I was cutting some 1/8x1/8 strips. I knew they would kick back pretty
good
so I got anything breakable out of the way.

One hit the wall 8' back and then bounced 15' nearly hitting the opposite
wall. I wonder what kind of velocity is necessary for a trick like that.
The other 5 were less dramatic.

Yeh, I know I could have avoided it by cutting them off, rather than
cutting
them; but the saw was setup perfectly from cutting them to width.


Not kick back, but a similar incident on the SCMS yesterday cutting
triangular shaped 1/8" paduak wood for accent. One piece shattered, sending
slivers around the shop like shrapnel ... one 3" sliver speared me in the
bottom lip and I had to pull it out. It would have gone right through an
eyeball

... "and there is no more important safety device than these, safety
glasses."

Take Norm's advice to heart.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/05

"Toller" wrote in message
...
I was cutting some 1/8x1/8 strips. I knew they would kick back pretty
good
so I got anything breakable out of the way.

I don't get it. Why did you even attempt the cut? There are ways to handle
this but not very common.

Bob

With a proper push block, you could have cut them all day long with no hint
of a problem.
You know something's not going to work and you do it anyway. Bright.

"Toller" wrote in message
...
I was cutting some 1/8x1/8 strips. I knew they would kick back pretty
good
so I got anything breakable out of the way.

One hit the wall 8' back and then bounced 15' nearly hitting the opposite
wall. I wonder what kind of velocity is necessary for a trick like that.
The other 5 were less dramatic.

Yeh, I know I could have avoided it by cutting them off, rather than
cutting
them; but the saw was setup perfectly from cutting them to width.

"Toller" wrote in message
...
I was cutting some 1/8x1/8 strips. I knew they would kick back pretty good
so I got anything breakable out of the way.

One hit the wall 8' back and then bounced 15' nearly hitting the opposite
wall. I wonder what kind of velocity is necessary for a trick like that.
The other 5 were less dramatic.

Yeh, I know I could have avoided it by cutting them off, rather than
cutting them; but the saw was setup perfectly from cutting them to width.


Cutting something knowing it will kick back is just not smart. You really
should find a way to cut that eliminates or at least significantly reduces
the chance for kickback. Not sure if you were using a table saw but if it
was set up correctly, you shouldn't have this problem.
Cheers,
cc

I will take issue with Norm's dictum about the most important safety device.
It is the stuff between your ears......your brain. If the cut seems a
little scary, it probably is!

Dave W wrote:

I will take issue with Norm's dictum about the most important safety device.
It is the stuff between your ears......your brain. If the cut seems a
little scary, it probably is!


I'm with you on that one, Dave. Another reason I NEVER, EVER have a
beer before, or during a WW session.

Dave

With a proper push block, you could have cut them all day long with no
hint
of a problem.
You know something's not going to work and you do it anyway. Bright.

A push block to handle a 1/8" cut? Holding the cut-off and accepting the
kickback seems safer.
It worked just fine. I got my 1/8x1/8 pieces, no harm was done, and I got
an interesting show.

Yes, a pushblock. If you know how to make them, they keep complete control
of both pieces. Kickbacks don't always go were you think they will. You'd
look kind of funny with a piece of wood sticking out of your neck.

"Toller" wrote in message
...

With a proper push block, you could have cut them all day long with no
hint
of a problem.
You know something's not going to work and you do it anyway. Bright.

A push block to handle a 1/8" cut? Holding the cut-off and accepting the
kickback seems safer.
It worked just fine. I got my 1/8x1/8 pieces, no harm was done, and I got
an interesting show.

Lots of comments on the OP's technique so far, but no one answered the
question.... LOL.

The answer is (suprisingly) not that much velocity. Depending on what type
of strip it was (bendable and heavy is better, hickory better than balsa
), and what type of wall it was (stiff is better), the collision of strip
to wall was very close to perfectly elastic. In english, this means the
strip bounded back with only slightly less velocity than what it came in at.
And it would not take much velocity to send a strip as described back across
a 15ft shop (way under 50 feet per second or 30 miles per hour) -- durn near
anyone could throw something like this WAY more that 15'.

So if it came off the saw at 60 miles per hour, this could easily happen.
You don't need gunshot velocity or anything even close. Just suicidal
tendancies...

Try this sometime -- get a 1/4" dowel 3' long and bounce it on a concrete
floor. It bounces quite nicely, and can be pretty fun to try to get a
straight bounce.

Matthew (who is always fascinated by crap like this)

"Toller" wrote in message
...
I was cutting some 1/8x1/8 strips. I knew they would kick back pretty
good
so I got anything breakable out of the way.

One hit the wall 8' back and then bounced 15' nearly hitting the opposite
wall. I wonder what kind of velocity is necessary for a trick like that.
The other 5 were less dramatic.

Yeh, I know I could have avoided it by cutting them off, rather than
cutting
them; but the saw was setup perfectly from cutting them to width.

"Dave W" wrote in message
I will take issue with Norm's dictum about the most important safety
device.
It is the stuff between your ears......your brain. If the cut seems a
little scary, it probably is!

If you have a brain, you follow Norm's "dictum".

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/05

Toller wrote:
I was cutting some 1/8x1/8 strips. I knew they would kick back pretty good
so I got anything breakable out of the way.

One hit the wall 8' back and then bounced 15' nearly hitting the opposite
wall. I wonder what kind of velocity is necessary for a trick like that.
The other 5 were less dramatic.

Yeh, I know I could have avoided it by cutting them off, rather than cutting
them; but the saw was setup perfectly from cutting them to width.



How does a piece of wood that tiny hit a wall and
not break all to pieces instead of bouncing? Must
be damned tough wood?

Forget the 1/4" dowel, try it with a 1/8" dowel.
Toller didn't say how long the piece was, but try
it with a 3' long piece. Then tells us what happened.

Matthew Eash wrote:
Lots of comments on the OP's technique so far, but no one answered the
question.... LOL.

The answer is (suprisingly) not that much velocity. Depending on what type
of strip it was (bendable and heavy is better, hickory better than balsa
), and what type of wall it was (stiff is better), the collision of strip
to wall was very close to perfectly elastic. In english, this means the
strip bounded back with only slightly less velocity than what it came in at.
And it would not take much velocity to send a strip as described back across
a 15ft shop (way under 50 feet per second or 30 miles per hour) -- durn near
anyone could throw something like this WAY more that 15'.

So if it came off the saw at 60 miles per hour, this could easily happen.
You don't need gunshot velocity or anything even close. Just suicidal
tendancies...

Try this sometime -- get a 1/4" dowel 3' long and bounce it on a concrete
floor. It bounces quite nicely, and can be pretty fun to try to get a
straight bounce.

Matthew (who is always fascinated by crap like this)

"Toller" wrote in message
...

I was cutting some 1/8x1/8 strips. I knew they would kick back pretty

good

so I got anything breakable out of the way.

One hit the wall 8' back and then bounced 15' nearly hitting the opposite
wall. I wonder what kind of velocity is necessary for a trick like that.
The other 5 were less dramatic.

Yeh, I know I could have avoided it by cutting them off, rather than

cutting

them; but the saw was setup perfectly from cutting them to width.

"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...
Toller wrote:
I was cutting some 1/8x1/8 strips. I knew they would kick back pretty
good so I got anything breakable out of the way.

One hit the wall 8' back and then bounced 15' nearly hitting the opposite
wall. I wonder what kind of velocity is necessary for a trick like that.
The other 5 were less dramatic.

Yeh, I know I could have avoided it by cutting them off, rather than
cutting them; but the saw was setup perfectly from cutting them to width.

How does a piece of wood that tiny hit a wall and not break all to pieces
instead of bouncing? Must be damned tough wood?

An 11" long piece of walnut. Only one of the six bounced more than a few
feet, but none were the least bit damaged.

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 01:22:35 GMT, "Toller" wrote:


An 11" long piece of walnut. Only one of the six bounced more than a few
feet, but none were the least bit damaged.

There's no reason for a piece that short to have ever been introduced
to the back/top teeth of the blade. Raise the blade all the way, cut
in half way, back out, cut from the other end. If you don't pass the
back teeth I believe backing out is safe. Safer than intentionally
allowing a kickback anyway. Keep a push stick pushing down close to
the front of the blade to keep the stock from chattering, both as you
make the cut and as you back out. I cut small stuff like that all the
time this way, but I have learned to never let anything that small
near the back of the blade, unless you enjoy having little splinters
come flying towards your face at high speed.

-Leuf

"Toller" wrote in message
...

snip bad idea


I suggest you rethink the level of safety in which you feel comfortable
working. Why would you not take 60 seconds to build a thin strip cutting
jig? They are safe, simple and when the saw is set, you don't have to move
the fence for each cut.

Easier yet. Cut as usual and use a push BLOCK, not stick.

"Leuf" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 01:22:35 GMT, "Toller" wrote:


An 11" long piece of walnut. Only one of the six bounced more than a few
feet, but none were the least bit damaged.

There's no reason for a piece that short to have ever been introduced
to the back/top teeth of the blade. Raise the blade all the way, cut
in half way, back out, cut from the other end. If you don't pass the
back teeth I believe backing out is safe. Safer than intentionally
allowing a kickback anyway. Keep a push stick pushing down close to
the front of the blade to keep the stock from chattering, both as you
make the cut and as you back out. I cut small stuff like that all the
time this way, but I have learned to never let anything that small
near the back of the blade, unless you enjoy having little splinters
come flying towards your face at high speed.

-Leuf

"Leuf" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 01:22:35 GMT, "Toller" wrote:


An 11" long piece of walnut. Only one of the six bounced more than a few
feet, but none were the least bit damaged.

There's no reason for a piece that short to have ever been introduced
to the back/top teeth of the blade. Raise the blade all the way, cut
in half way, back out, cut from the other end. If you don't pass the
back teeth I believe backing out is safe. Safer than intentionally
allowing a kickback anyway. Keep a push stick pushing down close to
the front of the blade to keep the stock from chattering, both as you
make the cut and as you back out. I cut small stuff like that all the
time this way, but I have learned to never let anything that small
near the back of the blade, unless you enjoy having little splinters
come flying towards your face at high speed.

-Leuf


Do not raise blade all the way up (3 inches), you will surley be asking for
trouble there.

I think everyone is over reacting to this, think about it the blade is only
1/4" out of the table and only 1/8" above material. Assuming the gap between
the blade and insert is 1/16" or less a push stick is very acceptable for
this cut. Although saftey glasses are a must reguardless what you are
cutting.

Just my .02

Kevin

I just had an "almost" this weekend. Was ripping some purpleheart on my
ancient saw and it started warping shut behind the blade. Got it a ways
back behind the blade and carefully wedged it open, then finished the cut.

I need to either figure out how to put a splitter on that saw (didn't
come with one, no room on the insert behind the blade) or else get a new
saw.

Chris

Toller wrote:
With a proper push block, you could have cut them all day long with no
hint of a problem.

A push block to handle a 1/8" cut?

Yep. The main body lays flat on the table. Make it about 8" wide and
decently long with a handle in the middle.

Cut a bit less than 1/8" off one edge, but leave a bit of a tail on it
to hold the stock.

Chris

In article , says...

With a proper push block, you could have cut them all day long with no
hint
of a problem.
You know something's not going to work and you do it anyway. Bright.

A push block to handle a 1/8" cut? Holding the cut-off and accepting the
kickback seems safer.
It worked just fine. I got my 1/8x1/8 pieces, no harm was done, and I got
an interesting show.




I have a push block in the shop that will work just fine for cuts of
this sort. My shop teacher made it for me back in high school when he
caught me doing cuts much like you were. He made me carry it with me
every day for the rest of the term so I wouldn't forget how to cut
things. It's been almost 30 years so far, and I haven't forgot yet, so
it must have worked.

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 12:55:44 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:



Not kick back, but a similar incident on the SCMS yesterday cutting
triangular shaped 1/8" paduak wood for accent. One piece shattered, sending
slivers around the shop like shrapnel ... one 3" sliver speared me in the
bottom lip and I had to pull it out. It would have gone right through an
eyeball

... "and there is no more important safety device than these, safety
glasses."

Take Norm's advice to heart.

One of those faceshields turners use is also very useful. I sure like
mine.

It's getting darn near like wearing one of those level 4 biohazard
suits to go safely into the wood shop. Kevlar apron, safety glasses,
hearing protection, face shield & dustfoe. Not to mention dust
collector and sawstop.

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 04:14:37 GMT, "CW" wrote:

Easier yet. Cut as usual and use a push BLOCK, not stick.

You will never see me using an 1/8" wide push block. 1/4" ok.
Narrower than that for repeated cuts jig it so the 1/8" is cut off
opposite the fence side, and for a one of I do it as I described.


-Leuf

Leuf wrote:

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 04:14:37 GMT, "CW" wrote:

Easier yet. Cut as usual and use a push BLOCK, not stick.

You will never see me using an 1/8" wide push block. 1/4" ok.
Narrower than that for repeated cuts jig it so the 1/8" is cut off
opposite the fence side, and for a one of I do it as I described.


-Leuf


Think Sacrificial push block.

I wouldn't either. For this, about 2.5" would be about right.

"Leuf" wrote in message
...
You will never see me using an 1/8" wide push block.

Yes. Predecessor to the Grripper.
"Lobby Dosser" wrote in message
news:HFpnf.15681$OK6.2622@trnddc03...
Leuf wrote:

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 04:14:37 GMT, "CW" wrote:

Easier yet. Cut as usual and use a push BLOCK, not stick.

You will never see me using an 1/8" wide push block. 1/4" ok.
Narrower than that for repeated cuts jig it so the 1/8" is cut off
opposite the fence side, and for a one of I do it as I described.


-Leuf


Think Sacrificial push block.

"Toller" wrote in message:

With a proper push block, you could have cut them all day long with no
snip
a push block would be better than nothing and it should be adequate,
but.......

I don't use push blocks, but rather a stick (round or square, about 1"x1")
with a nail in the end works better than anything on the planet. Drive a #6
or #8 casing nail into one end and sharpen the nail with a grinder or file.
About 1" should be sticking out. This will give you control to push the
workpiece toward the fence and away. Any small hole made by the device
will be unnoticeable and can be easily filled if desired. Also it is good
to taper the end where the nail is, a little bit.

For those who would like to flame me, that's cool. But try it first.

woodstuff "have a nice day"

"woodstuff" wrote in message

For those who would like to flame me, that's cool. But try it first.

No thanks ... last thing I want anywhere near my expensive blades is a nail.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/05

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:31:28 -0600, "woodstuff"
wrote:

"Toller" wrote in message:

With a proper push block, you could have cut them all day long with no
snip
a push block would be better than nothing and it should be adequate,
but.......

I don't use push blocks, but rather a stick (round or square, about 1"x1")
with a nail in the end works better than anything on the planet. Drive a #6
or #8 casing nail into one end and sharpen the nail with a grinder or file.
About 1" should be sticking out. This will give you control to push the
workpiece toward the fence and away. Any small hole made by the device
will be unnoticeable and can be easily filled if desired. Also it is good
to taper the end where the nail is, a little bit.

I dip the ends of pushblocks in a "non-slip" paint intended for marine
applications. It's cheap and gives a better grip than wood-wood.

Barry Lennox

"Swingman wrote in message:
"woodstuff" wrote in message

For those who would like to flame me, that's cool. But try it first.

No thanks ... last thing I want anywhere near my expensive blades is a
nail.

All I can say is that you gotta try it.
I never have hit the blade, and my blades are not cheapos.

woodstuff "have a nice day"

Barry Lennox wrote in message:

"Toller" wrote in message:

With a proper push block, you could have cut them all day long with
no
snip
woodstuff wrote in message:
a push block would be better than nothing and it should be adequate,
but.......
I don't use push blocks, but rather a stick...
snip
Barry Lennox wrote in message:
I dip the ends of pushblocks in a "non-slip" paint intended for marine
applications. It's cheap and gives a better grip than wood-wood.

This is a good point, Barry. I never tried that when I used push blocks.
Push blocks are adequate and I am not running them down, and I used them for
over two decades.
My point is that I found a better way for me.

woodstuff "have a nice day"

And it still leaves the piece free to fly if it's going to.

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"woodstuff" wrote in message

For those who would like to flame me, that's cool. But try it first.

No thanks ... last thing I want anywhere near my expensive blades is a
nail.

--
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Last update: 11/06/05