I was walking through a Home Depot the other day and came upon the RAS in
the lumber area. It had some fancy new jig on it for crosscutting lumber.
It was a monstrosity. There is basically no way of getting anywhere close
to the blade.

The lumber is slid in and a handle pushes the lumber up against the fence.
No hand is required to hold the wood and they even have a resting spot for
the free hand. The blade slides through a slot with a blade guard
covering the blade 100%.

This seems like safety taken to the extreme. Only someone brain dead
could possibly get hurt.

Brian Elfert

Brian Elfert wrote:
I was walking through a Home Depot the other day and came upon the RAS in
the lumber area. It had some fancy new jig on it for crosscutting lumber.
It was a monstrosity. There is basically no way of getting anywhere close
to the blade.

The lumber is slid in and a handle pushes the lumber up against the fence.
No hand is required to hold the wood and they even have a resting spot for
the free hand. The blade slides through a slot with a blade guard
covering the blade 100%.

This seems like safety taken to the extreme. Only someone brain dead
could possibly get hurt.

Brian Elfert

Never underestimate the power of the consumer to get injured in spite
of these safety devices. Then, nver underesstimate the power of the
consumer to remove these devices, get injured, then blame the
manufacturer for a) failing to design a safe device; b) failing to
forsee that the user would remove the safety device and plow a body
part into a spinning blade; and c) anything else a sharp lawyer could
come up with to earn a buck.

Geo wrote:

Never underestimate the power of the consumer to get injured in spite

of these safety devices. Then, nver underesstimate the power of the
consumer to remove these devices, get injured, then blame the
manufacturer for a) failing to design a safe device; b) failing to
forsee that the user would remove the safety device and plow a body
part into a spinning blade; and c) anything else a sharp lawyer could
come up with to earn a buck.

Amen, Amen, Amen.

My employees make it a point to take off such devices as they think
they are for weenies. Now the problem is that when you take of some of
he new safety devices on equipment that you make the tool 2X as
dangerous as it was before.

At least if you have the safety devices on the machine you have a
chance in court to defend yourself by proving you put some time and
money into the workplace to make it safer. I fear that soon the
attorneys will have a new gambit to play though:

"How come you didn't install a second safety feature on the first
safety feature to make sure it couldn't be removed?"

Robert

"Geo" writes:


Never underestimate the power of the consumer to get injured in spite
of these safety devices. Then, nver underesstimate the power of the
consumer to remove these devices, get injured, then blame the
manufacturer for a) failing to design a safe device; b) failing to
forsee that the user would remove the safety device and plow a body
part into a spinning blade; and c) anything else a sharp lawyer could
come up with to earn a buck.

This is something Home Depot added to the saw. It is even Home Depot
orange in color. I don't see how any employee could remove this without a
bunch of tools and a lot of time. It is not a simple safety guard like a
normal RAS.

It still seems like safety taken to the extreme. Somebody would have to
stick a hand in a foot or more to get to the blade.

Brian Elfert

Brian Elfert said:

This is something Home Depot added to the saw. It is even Home Depot
orange in color. I don't see how any employee could remove this without a
bunch of tools and a lot of time. It is not a simple safety guard like a
normal RAS.

It still seems like safety taken to the extreme. Somebody would have to
stick a hand in a foot or more to get to the blade.

Brian Elfert

Have you looked at the employees they hire? In the past two years
they have gone _steadily_ downhill in the 'smarts' department...


Greg G.

Greg G. wrote:
In the past two years
they have gone _steadily_ downhill in the 'smarts' department...

That's following my retail / fast food law.

The quality of service at retail and fast food joints is inverse to the
quality of the overall economy.

When the economy moves in a negative direction, the quality of retail
and fast food employee goes up, as talented, hard working folks need
jobs. As our economy enters a positive cycle, the better employees move
on into better jobs, leaving those unable to get better jobs behind.

Barry

B a r r y said:

Greg G. wrote:
In the past two years
they have gone _steadily_ downhill in the 'smarts' department...

That's following my retail / fast food law.

The quality of service at retail and fast food joints is inverse to the
quality of the overall economy.

When the economy moves in a negative direction, the quality of retail
and fast food employee goes up, as talented, hard working folks need
jobs. As our economy enters a positive cycle, the better employees move
on into better jobs, leaving those unable to get better jobs behind.

OK - So how does that explain a faltering economy AND the worthless
employees? Me thinks you need a new law... g

Law # 2: Avarice Rules.


Greg G.

Brian Elfert wrote:

"Geo" writes:

Never underestimate the power of the consumer to get injured in spite
of these safety devices. Then, nver underesstimate the power of the
consumer to remove these devices, get injured, then blame the
manufacturer for a) failing to design a safe device; b) failing to
forsee that the user would remove the safety device and plow a body
part into a spinning blade; and c) anything else a sharp lawyer could
come up with to earn a buck.

This is something Home Depot added to the saw. It is even Home Depot
orange in color. I don't see how any employee could remove this without a
bunch of tools and a lot of time. It is not a simple safety guard like a
normal RAS.

It still seems like safety taken to the extreme. Somebody would have to
stick a hand in a foot or more to get to the blade.

Seems very sensible to me from a management point of view---the cost of
a single lost-time accident would more than make up for the cost of the
modification...

In article ,
Brian Elfert wrote:

I was walking through a Home Depot the other day and came upon the RAS in
the lumber area. It had some fancy new jig on it for crosscutting lumber.
It was a monstrosity. There is basically no way of getting anywhere close
to the blade.

The lumber is slid in and a handle pushes the lumber up against the fence.
No hand is required to hold the wood and they even have a resting spot for
the free hand. The blade slides through a slot with a blade guard
covering the blade 100%.

This seems like safety taken to the extreme. Only someone brain dead
could possibly get hurt.

Brian Elfert

Well, you never know. Back in my pizza slinging days, a new bus boy was
cleaning the meat slicer. Those commercial slicers were pretty well
guarded to keep up from cutting off our fingers. But somehow, and with
the safety guards in place, this dumb SOB found a way to cut his elbow!

PDX David

"Brian Elfert" wrote in message
...
I was walking through a Home Depot the other day and came upon the RAS in
the lumber area. It had some fancy new jig on it for crosscutting lumber.
It was a monstrosity. There is basically no way of getting anywhere close
to the blade.

The lumber is slid in and a handle pushes the lumber up against the fence.
No hand is required to hold the wood and they even have a resting spot for
the free hand. The blade slides through a slot with a blade guard
covering the blade 100%.

This seems like safety taken to the extreme. Only someone brain dead
could possibly get hurt.

Brian Elfert

The second they invent something idiot proof, along comes a better idiot....

I didn't make this up, but I've seen it in action more times than I care to
count.

jc

Only someone brain dead
could possibly get hurt.

Home Depot's got 'em.

Lee

--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"

_________________________________
Lee Gordon
http://www.leegordonproductions.com

My employees make it a point to take off such devices as they think
they are for weenies. Now the problem is that when you take of some of
he new safety devices on equipment that you make the tool 2X as
dangerous as it was before.

If I had employees who did that they would become ex-employees in short
order.

Lee

--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"

_________________________________
Lee Gordon
http://www.leegordonproductions.com

It still seems like safety taken to the extreme.

There's no such thing, especially when idiots and power tools are allowed to
be in the same room.

Lee

--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"

_________________________________
Lee Gordon
http://www.leegordonproductions.com

Greg writes:

Have you looked at the employees they hire? In the past two years
they have gone _steadily_ downhill in the 'smarts' department...

Collectively? or Individually? :-)


--
Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail to this account incurs a fee of
$500 per message, and acknowledges the legality of this contract.

Nothing wrong with the economy.

"Greg G." wrote in message
...
B a r r y said:
OK - So how does that explain a faltering economy AND the worthless
employees? Me thinks you need a new law... g

On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 15:12:44 -0500, Greg wrote:

B a r r y said:

Greg G. wrote:
In the past two years
they have gone _steadily_ downhill in the 'smarts' department...

That's following my retail / fast food law.

The quality of service at retail and fast food joints is inverse to the
quality of the overall economy.

When the economy moves in a negative direction, the quality of retail
and fast food employee goes up, as talented, hard working folks need
jobs. As our economy enters a positive cycle, the better employees move
on into better jobs, leaving those unable to get better jobs behind.

OK - So how does that explain a faltering economy AND the worthless
employees? Me thinks you need a new law... g


He doesn't have to come up with a new rule nor explain because we aren't
in a faltering economy. Some areas of the country are having some
problems, but the remainder of the country is in an up cycle. I know that
kind of screws up your complaint about the current administration, but
despite the attempt to make the public think the current times are worse
than the Great Depression: Spending is up, unemployment is down, and the
housing market continues to grow.

Law # 2: Avarice Rules.


Greg G.


+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

"Lee Gordon" wrote in message
...
My employees make it a point to take off such devices as they think
they are for weenies. Now the problem is that when you take of some of
he new safety devices on equipment that you make the tool 2X as
dangerous as it was before.

If I had employees who did that they would become ex-employees in short
order.

Lee

--
Instantly in my shop.
Dave



Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
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Mark & Juanita said:


OK - So how does that explain a faltering economy AND the worthless
employees? Me thinks you need a new law... g


He doesn't have to come up with a new rule nor explain because we aren't
in a faltering economy. Some areas of the country are having some
problems, but the remainder of the country is in an up cycle. I know that
kind of screws up your complaint about the current administration, but
despite the attempt to make the public think the current times are worse
than the Great Depression: Spending is up, unemployment is down, and the
housing market continues to grow.

Ta dum, dum, dum, dum ,dum, dum, dum, dum....
I hear those neo-con drums beating still...

Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.


Greg G.

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 00:04:53 -0500, Greg wrote:

Mark & Juanita said:


OK - So how does that explain a faltering economy AND the worthless
employees? Me thinks you need a new law... g


He doesn't have to come up with a new rule nor explain because we aren't
in a faltering economy. Some areas of the country are having some
problems, but the remainder of the country is in an up cycle. I know that
kind of screws up your complaint about the current administration, but
despite the attempt to make the public think the current times are worse
than the Great Depression: Spending is up, unemployment is down, and the
housing market continues to grow.

Ta dum, dum, dum, dum ,dum, dum, dum, dum....
I hear those neo-con drums beating still...

Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.



Really sucks when the facts don't support your opinions, doesn't it? ad
hominem is all that's left




Greg G.


+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Mark & Juanita said:

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 00:04:53 -0500, Greg wrote:

Mark & Juanita said:


OK - So how does that explain a faltering economy AND the worthless
employees? Me thinks you need a new law... g


He doesn't have to come up with a new rule nor explain because we aren't
in a faltering economy. Some areas of the country are having some
problems, but the remainder of the country is in an up cycle. I know that
kind of screws up your complaint about the current administration, but
despite the attempt to make the public think the current times are worse
than the Great Depression: Spending is up, unemployment is down, and the
housing market continues to grow.

Ta dum, dum, dum, dum ,dum, dum, dum, dum....
I hear those neo-con drums beating still...

Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.


Really sucks when the facts don't support your opinions, doesn't it? ad
hominem is all that's left

Look, to begin with, it was a joke. But by the same token, it isn't.
You're the one who jacked up to argue facts that were never tendered.
So don your flame suit, smart-ass.

I'm not here to discuss politics - you believe the crap that you want,
and I'll believe the crap that I want. And nothing you or I say will
ever change another's mind. I think you're an idiot and vice versa.

Ad Hominem? Where? Are you ashamed of being labeled a neo-con?
Mighty defensive there, Bub - for such an adoring fan of Bush, et al.

Or was it the famous quote by Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Samuel
Clemens? (I can only _dream_ of being in such perceptive company.)
The semi-ironic statement that refers to the persuasive power of
numbers, and succinctly describes how even accurate statistics can be
used to bolster an inaccurate argument through such methods as
selectively choosing data, ignoring bad results and over-emphasizing
good results. Sounds _just like_ the current administration to me...

But since you brought it up, record Personal and National debt are not
what I call a thriving economy. Ditto for nearly a Trillion in trade
deficits to China, record fuel costs, and various scandals in the WH.
Nor is the selling of millions of acres in public lands to cronies in
a subversive, alledged deficit reducing, fire-sale scheme.

And it takes a lot of Patriotism to invest old family money and stock
scam capital into Communist Chinese factories while slashing benefits
for the few remaining U.S. citizens on the payroll, stealing their
pensions, and generally screwing everyone available in the quest of
ever more profits. Yes, this truly is the "Age of Avarice".

I have friends who own businesses all over the largest Boom-Town city
in the Southeast. Commercial Printing, way down. Retail sales, down.
New Car sales, down. Employment, down. Housing? Ha! $37,000 worth
of crap lumber thrown up by a crew of illegal immigrant laborers and
sold to stupid industrial city burnouts for $350,000. Meanwhile, the
actual Tradesman I know can't compete with $40 a day illegal's.
Oh, yeah - these fine houses are now in need of major repairs after
only five years - roofs, foundations, termites, plumbing - Good Stuff!
Now you know why they are sewing up the Bankrupcy laws...

Fuel is up, local taxes are climbing, as are property assessments, to
cover lost Federal funds, and you just about have to be a Dupont to
afford sending your kid to some Podunk college that is forced to teach
the non-science of creationism - in a country that purports to respect
no religion over another, and defies separation of Church and State.

We are at a precipice and are just as likely to be pushed over the
edge by an idiot Republican as an idiot Democrat. I suppose the
Romans never thought they'd fall from grace either - but they did.

Yeah, everything is just fine - shill.

As for liberals vs. neo-cons, I hate 'em all. They are two sides of
the same fricken' coin. But this current administration holds the top
spot for manipulative, underhanded, and self-interested behavior.

And it's rabidly zealous followers are as blind as they are stupid.
Which makes you either a filthy rich prick, or an utter moron.

And lest you fail to discern the distinction between a genuine
conservative Republican and a modern day neo-con...
Sorry - I can't help cure your crippling myopia - you should get out
from in front of the Faux News channel more often...

You're not getting my gun, I'm not paying for public handouts, I'm not
making another Energy Czar richer, and you're not going to force me to
worship Religions of Convenience or your sick, warped vision of God.
(Which in most neo-con minds, is tantamount to either themselves or
the almighty dollar.) I believe in working for profit, and have never
collected one thin dime from the government for anything, unless you
include an FHA-203b home loan.

So, I'm through with this thread. How's that for Ad Hominem?

Bye, bye, now.


Greg G.

"Greg G." wrote in message
...

So, I'm through with this thread. How's that for Ad Hominem?

Bye, bye, now.


Don't let reality hit you in the ass while you exit.

George wrote:
"Greg G." wrote in message
...

So, I'm through with this thread. How's that for Ad Hominem?

Bye, bye, now.


Don't let reality hit you in the ass while you exit.

I think it was reality that made him shut the door with reasonable
quiet as he left.

It is simply too bad that a centrist Republican position today is not
held in much esteem by the people who swung the party to the right, but
they can be assured that, like a pendulum, the party will swing back to
the center.

Greg G. wrote:

OK - So how does that explain a faltering economy AND the worthless
employees?

I think the economy is doing just fine.

All these posts, and not a single one I coujld find that
mentioned whether the saftey gizmo worked, pros, cons, neutrals,
ease of use, etc.? Is THAT the way to discuss safety?

All that reading, and no information ;-(


"Lee Gordon" wrote in message
...
: Only someone brain dead
: could possibly get hurt.
:
: Home Depot's got 'em.
:
: Lee
:
: --
: To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"
:
: _________________________________
: Lee Gordon
: http://www.leegordonproductions.com
:
:

TeamCasa wrote:

"Lee Gordon" wrote in message
...
My employees make it a point to take off such devices as they think
they are for weenies. Now the problem is that when you take of some of
he new safety devices on equipment that you make the tool 2X as
dangerous as it was before.

If I had employees who did that they would become ex-employees in short
order.

Lee

--
Instantly in my shop.
Dave

Here, too.

Pop wrote:

All that reading, and no information ;-(


You're new on Usenet? G

In article ,
Bruce Barnett wrote:
Greg writes:

Have you looked at the employees they hire? In the past two years
they have gone _steadily_ downhill in the 'smarts' department...

Collectively? or Individually? :-)


What has an I.Q. of 200?





The state legislature.




*COLLECTIVELY*

In article ,
noonenparticular wrote:

"Brian Elfert" wrote in message
...
I was walking through a Home Depot the other day and came upon the RAS in
the lumber area. It had some fancy new jig on it for crosscutting lumber.
It was a monstrosity. There is basically no way of getting anywhere close
to the blade.

The lumber is slid in and a handle pushes the lumber up against the fence.
No hand is required to hold the wood and they even have a resting spot for
the free hand. The blade slides through a slot with a blade guard
covering the blade 100%.

This seems like safety taken to the extreme. Only someone brain dead
could possibly get hurt.

Brian Elfert

The second they invent something idiot proof, along comes a better idiot....

I didn't make this up, but I've seen it in action more times than I care to
count.

"You can make a thing damn near fool-proof,
but you can't make it NEAR damn-fool proof."


"For every fool-proof invention, there
exists a sufficiently determined fool
capable of breaking it."

In article ,
Brian Elfert wrote:

I was walking through a Home Depot the other day and came upon the RAS in
the lumber area. It had some fancy new jig on it for crosscutting lumber.
It was a monstrosity. There is basically no way of getting anywhere close
to the blade.

The lumber is slid in and a handle pushes the lumber up against the fence.
No hand is required to hold the wood and they even have a resting spot for
the free hand. The blade slides through a slot with a blade guard
covering the blade 100%.

This seems like safety taken to the extreme. Only someone brain dead
could possibly get hurt.

Brian Elfert

Given the general caliber of the people working in HD, I find it pretty
scary that they even have a RAS at all.

There is plenty of industrial equipment which requires that you operate two
"start" buttons at the same time, each one hidden under a guard, and
several feet away from each other. All this to make sure both hands are
away from the business end of the machine when you turn it on.