I want a good finish for my natural edge bowls. I've used tung oil, tung
oil mixed with mineral spirit and now use Daly's SeaFin Teak Oil which I
like a lot better than the other two. I also tried Formby's Tung Oil finish
and didn't really like it. It seemed more brittle and crystalline. I want
a penetrating type with oil, like an oil varnish to protect my natural edge
bowls. One criteria is a faster build than what I'm getting. Some bowls
like pine and birch may take up to about 7-10 coats. Most bowls including
apple, cherry and maple take at least 4 coats. One member of my local club
suggested TruOil and I'm leaning toward that based on good comments in the
archives. Any other suggestions? I'll be ordering the Russell CD's when he
intros the new one, but I need to get a gallon soon.

Thanks,

Derek

On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 14:25:30 -0700, "Derek Hartzell"
wrote:

I want a good finish for my natural edge bowls. I've used tung oil, tung
oil mixed with mineral spirit and now use Daly's SeaFin Teak Oil which I
like a lot better than the other two. I also tried Formby's Tung Oil finish
and didn't really like it. It seemed more brittle and crystalline. I want
a penetrating type with oil, like an oil varnish to protect my natural edge
bowls. One criteria is a faster build than what I'm getting. Some bowls
like pine and birch may take up to about 7-10 coats. Most bowls including
apple, cherry and maple take at least 4 coats. One member of my local club
suggested TruOil and I'm leaning toward that based on good comments in the
archives. Any other suggestions? I'll be ordering the Russell CD's when he
intros the new one, but I need to get a gallon soon.

Thanks,

Derek




Make your own.

There's no fine line between danish oils and wiping varnishes and
brushing varnishes. the basic ingredients are an oil or 2, a solvent
and a resin (varnish).

get a can each of tung oil, linseed oil, paint thinner, turpentine and
a good hard gloss varnish. Don't worry about the gloss- it'll
disappear in the mix, but gloss varnishes are what you want for this.

a classic recipe is equal parts oil, varnish and thinner. start there
and adjust to your preference. you may want 2 or more mixes, a thin
one for the first penetrating layer and thicker ones to get build.

In article ,
"Derek Hartzell" wrote:

I want a good finish for my natural edge bowls. I've used tung oil, tung
oil mixed with mineral spirit and now use Daly's SeaFin Teak Oil which I
like a lot better than the other two. I also tried Formby's Tung Oil finish
and didn't really like it. It seemed more brittle and crystalline. I want
a penetrating type with oil, like an oil varnish to protect my natural edge
bowls. One criteria is a faster build than what I'm getting. Some bowls
like pine and birch may take up to about 7-10 coats. Most bowls including
apple, cherry and maple take at least 4 coats. One member of my local club
suggested TruOil and I'm leaning toward that based on good comments in the
archives. Any other suggestions? I'll be ordering the Russell CD's when he
intros the new one, but I need to get a gallon soon.


I like the medium-luster sheen that my homade oil-varnish blend yields.
The specific components a Behlen's Rock Hard Varnish; boiled linseed
oil or 100% tung oil; and VMP naptha.

Resins: The Behlen's is very high in resins compared with the standard
and spar varnishes one finds at hardware and home centers. I prefer
Behlen's Rock Hard Tabletop Varnish which is a "short oil" compared to
the standard varnish's "medium oil". What this means is that the amount
of oils (like BLO) put into the can by the manufacturer is less and it
therefore contains more hard curing resin. (Spar is a "long oil" - much
more oil to resin to yield a more flexible finish which is needed with
wood movement due to weather exposure.)

The advantage of using alkyd type resin instead of a polyurethane resin
is that the alkyds are easier to repair. The poly's are really, really
tough but one may encounter adhesion problems if additional coats are
applied after the initial application cures out or if you need to fix a
scuff or ding. I hardly ever use poly except with pieces that will be
subject to heavy wear or direct liquid contact.

Oils: Tung vs. BLO: I use whatever is handy. Boiled linseed oil is less
expensive and quite widely available compared to 100% tung oil. Tung
oil will amber-tint the wood to a lesser degree, but by the time the
amber-colored varnish is applied, I don't think you'll see much
difference between the two oils.

Solvents: I prefer VMP Naptha or real Turpentine. Naptha evaporates
more quickly; turpentine more slowly. I prefer either one over mineral
spirits due to its strong smell - even the "odorless", which to my
nose, isn't.

The factors to take into consideration are the odor you are subjected
to during the applications and the evaporation rate. If it's cool to
cold, the slower evaporation rates will slow the whole curing process
down and drag out the time between coats. Naptha is a fairly fast
evaporator - turpentine and min. spirits are slower.

Generally I use the Behlen's combined with boiled linseed and VMP
Naptha. The mix ratio I favor is roughly 2 parts varnish, 1 part oil
and 1 to 2 parts thinnner.

The amount of thinner is the most uncritical of all since it evaporates
leaving the other two behind as the finish. Too little solvent though
and it can be like trying to apply honey to the surface and too much
solvent takes a long time to build sufficient film.

The mix builds pretty quickly. My technique is to rub and rub and rub
the mixture into the wood and then buff with a soft cloth. I repeat the
process a few more times with 24 hour drying times between coats and
get a nice semi-gloss sheen which appears pretty tough.

I assume you're concerned about applying before the piece is dried?

If so, use the dilute wiping varnishes/Danish oils followed by less dilute
with the same resin. Don't think I'd go as long on the oil as the solvent,
though. Makes the finish soft.

If not worried about moisture beneath, it's tough to beat shellac for ease,
build, and reparability. Since this type of bowl will likely see dry use
only, if at all, you needn't worry about durability.
http://www.woodfinishingsupplies.com/ to mix your own.

Quick and dirty finish
http://personalpages.tds.net/~upgeorge/Pin%20three.htm

"Derek Hartzell" wrote in message
...
One criteria is a faster build than what I'm getting. Some bowls
like pine and birch may take up to about 7-10 coats. Most bowls including
apple, cherry and maple take at least 4 coats. One member of my local
club
suggested TruOil and I'm leaning toward that based on good comments in the
archives. Any other suggestions? I'll be ordering the Russell CD's when
he
intros the new one, but I need to get a gallon soon.

The easiest, and it looks very good, is super blond shellac and wax (I
happen to use Briwax). Apply a couple of coats of shellac with a clean
cloth that is fairly saturated. (You can speed the drying process by using
the friction of the cloth on the shellac) Allow to set for a couple of
minutes, burnish with 0000 steel wool, 320 sandpaper or wood shaving and
apply a couple of coats of wax, buffing to a shine between. The whole
process takes about 10 minutes on a 12" bowl.

Deb

Derek Hartzell wrote:

I want a good finish for my natural edge bowls. I've used tung oil, tung
oil mixed with mineral spirit and now use Daly's SeaFin Teak Oil which I
like a lot better than the other two. I also tried Formby's Tung Oil
finish
and didn't really like it. It seemed more brittle and crystalline. I
want a penetrating type with oil, like an oil varnish to protect my
natural edge
bowls. One criteria is a faster build than what I'm getting. Some bowls
like pine and birch may take up to about 7-10 coats. Most bowls including
apple, cherry and maple take at least 4 coats. One member of my local
club suggested TruOil and I'm leaning toward that based on good comments
in the
archives. Any other suggestions? I'll be ordering the Russell CD's when
he intros the new one, but I need to get a gallon soon.

Thanks,

Derek

I have had very good success with Minwax Polyurethane in either gloss or
semi-gloss formulas. Sand to 320 or higher, slop on a heavy coat of poly
and keep wet for a few minutes. Then wipe it off. Turn the lathe on and
burnish it in with a soft cloth. An old T-shirt works great. One or two
coats is usually all you need. It's incredibly simple and easy. Try it.

Barry


"Derek Hartzell" wrote in message
...
I want a good finish for my natural edge bowls. I've used tung oil, tung
oil mixed with mineral spirit and now use Daly's SeaFin Teak Oil which I
like a lot better than the other two. I also tried Formby's Tung Oil
finish
and didn't really like it. It seemed more brittle and crystalline. I
want
a penetrating type with oil, like an oil varnish to protect my natural
edge
bowls. One criteria is a faster build than what I'm getting. Some bowls
like pine and birch may take up to about 7-10 coats. Most bowls including
apple, cherry and maple take at least 4 coats. One member of my local
club
suggested TruOil and I'm leaning toward that based on good comments in the
archives. Any other suggestions? I'll be ordering the Russell CD's when
he
intros the new one, but I need to get a gallon soon.

Thanks,

Derek

I want a good finish for my natural edge bowls. BRBR

I like Lee Valley's Polymerized Tung Oil Sealer. It's
easy to apply and dries in 24 hours. It can be buffed after drying if you want
a higher luster, or you can follow it with their Polymerized Tung Oil which
will add to the gloss.
-Jim Gott-
San Jose, CA

Hello Derek,

One of the easiest ways to make oil finishes build faster is to seal the
wood first, then apply your chosen oil finish. I prefer using thin Lacquer
as a primary sealer... For many of the timbers you mentioned, you will see
less colour change in the timber if you seal first, the apply the oil.

The thin Lacquer will seal the surface fibres, preventing the subsequent
coats of oil from darkening the wood. In addition, the lacquer will allow
any oil to build faster, thus saving on material and application costs.

If you prefer not to use a sealer, one of the fastest building oils out
there is Liberon Finishing Oil. It is pricy (@ $30.00 per quart), but will
build a nice coat much faster than many oils. The cured film is easily
buffed and produces a subtle, provocative, sensual feeling when you run your
hands over the buffed surface. The cured film also retains a better
elasticity than many oils. This can be easily tested by performing a "Thin
Film Polymerisation Test" on a glass sheet.

If it's taking you 7-10 coats with your current oil, the Liberon should give
the same amount of build in 3-4 coats, unsealed and 2-3 if sealed. This is
an estimate though, as I do not know how you are defining an appropriate
build level - visual, tactile, gloss, degree of depth etc.

One drawback to using the Liberon FO... It is a medium to darkish amber
colour. On light timbers like Pine and Birch, it will cause the surface
colour to yellow and darken. This can be eliminated by applying the sealer
coat and is what I would recommend. I have been sealing oil based finishes
for years and rarely ever apply them anymore without a sealer coat laid on
first.

This not only cuts your finishing time down, it also saves a boat load of
money on expensive oils. In addition, the sealer will virtually eliminate
the colour change imparted by amber coloured oils on light hued timbers. If
you do not care for Lacquer, you can achieve the same result with a Shellac
based primary sealer. Thin Super Blonde, wax free Shellac would be an
excellent choice to consider.

You may also want to consider a water based oil finish. There are only a few
out there that I will use at the current state of the development of these
oils. If you would like more info on the water based oils, let me know. The
water based oils carry their own unique set of preparation challenges, but
offer some important benefits for your extra effort. Take care and all the
best to you and yours!

P.S. I will let you know when the CD/DVD. Volume 2 is ready to ship and will
be happy to offer a combo price with Volume #1.
--
Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry...

Steven D. Russell
Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio
The Woodlands, Texas

Machinery, Tool and Product Testing for the Woodworking and Woodturning
Industries

³Woodturning with Steven D. Russell² Volume #1 CD ROM * Available for
Shipment
³Woodturning with Steven D. Russell² Volume #2 CD ROM/DVD Video * Available
Soon




On 8/6/04 4:25 PM, in article , "Derek Hartzell"
wrote:

I want a good finish for my natural edge bowls. I've used tung oil, tung
oil mixed with mineral spirit and now use Daly's SeaFin Teak Oil which I
like a lot better than the other two. I also tried Formby's Tung Oil finish
and didn't really like it. It seemed more brittle and crystalline. I want
a penetrating type with oil, like an oil varnish to protect my natural edge
bowls. One criteria is a faster build than what I'm getting. Some bowls
like pine and birch may take up to about 7-10 coats. Most bowls including
apple, cherry and maple take at least 4 coats. One member of my local club
suggested TruOil and I'm leaning toward that based on good comments in the
archives. Any other suggestions? I'll be ordering the Russell CD's when he
intros the new one, but I need to get a gallon soon.

Thanks,

Derek

Hello to the group,

One thing to consider when whipping up a batch of your own oil is that
Linseed Oil and Pure Gum Spirits of Turpentine will alter (darken) the
colour of your wood over time. Linseed oil has a habit of turning very dark
to almost black over long periods of time... Go to any antique store and you
will see this on old pieces finished with Linseed oil. Currently, there is
no way to chemically reverse the colour degradation caused by Linseed oil.

PGST also will darken over time, to a lesser extent than Linseed. However,
be aware of these challenges if you are finishing museum, archival or
heirloom pieces. If these challenges are objectionable to you, consider
other base oils who do not present such long term problems. Take care and
all the best to you and yours!

--
Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry...

Steven D. Russell
Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio
The Woodlands, Texas

Machinery, Tool and Product Testing for the Woodworking and Woodturning
Industries

³Woodturning with Steven D. Russell² Volume #1 CD ROM * Available for
Shipment
³Woodturning with Steven D. Russell² Volume #2 CD ROM/DVD Video * Available
Soon




On 8/7/04 12:30 AM, in article ,
" wrote:

On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 14:25:30 -0700, "Derek Hartzell"
wrote:

I want a good finish for my natural edge bowls. I've used tung oil, tung
oil mixed with mineral spirit and now use Daly's SeaFin Teak Oil which I
like a lot better than the other two. I also tried Formby's Tung Oil finish
and didn't really like it. It seemed more brittle and crystalline. I want
a penetrating type with oil, like an oil varnish to protect my natural edge
bowls. One criteria is a faster build than what I'm getting. Some bowls
like pine and birch may take up to about 7-10 coats. Most bowls including
apple, cherry and maple take at least 4 coats. One member of my local club
suggested TruOil and I'm leaning toward that based on good comments in the
archives. Any other suggestions? I'll be ordering the Russell CD's when he
intros the new one, but I need to get a gallon soon.

Thanks,

Derek




Make your own.

There's no fine line between danish oils and wiping varnishes and
brushing varnishes. the basic ingredients are an oil or 2, a solvent
and a resin (varnish).

get a can each of tung oil, linseed oil, paint thinner, turpentine and
a good hard gloss varnish. Don't worry about the gloss- it'll
disappear in the mix, but gloss varnishes are what you want for this.

a classic recipe is equal parts oil, varnish and thinner. start there
and adjust to your preference. you may want 2 or more mixes, a thin
one for the first penetrating layer and thicker ones to get build.

Why reinvent the wheel - just get some WaterLox and have an easy to use and
beautiful finsih that is food safe and durable without the headaches of
mixing your own - this stuff is the best!

Ray

"Steven D. Russell" wrote in message

One of the easiest ways to make oil finishes build faster is to seal the
wood first, then apply your chosen oil finish. I prefer using thin Lacquer
as a primary sealer...

After sealing with lacquer, is it necessary to sand again before applying
the oil. Frankly it comes as a surprise that oil can be applied over
lacquer. I'd never have guessed.

The rest of your post is full of valuable info as well, Steven. Thanks.
And I definitely would like your two media discs. Do you have a website.
(sorry, I'm fairly new around here)

Max

Hello Max,

The sealer coat of Lacquer is very thin, however, I still rub it down with
webrax (synthetic wire wool) before applying oil to the surface. This helps
even everything out before beginning the application of the chosen oil
finish.

You could also use your final grit of abrasive as well, I just prefer the
webrax, as it is available with fabric backing and I can power buff the
outside if necessary on larger pieces using my flex-shaft tool, or the
pneumatic VS drill.

You could also use wire wool to prep the surface before applying the oil,
but be careful as the steel wire wool may leave a residue, which may be
visible in the pores upon close inspection. In addition, if your oil is
water based, the steel residue will rust... :-o If you prefer wire wool,
consider bronze wire wool (no rusting).

Additional note: The sealer coat of Lacquer can be diluted 50/50 with
Lacquer thinner and for best results, should be strained before application
with an oil base safe paint strainer. This is overkill for some, but that's
the best way to do it, IMHO.

I do not have a website up and running, but hope to by year end. If you're
interested in my educational CD/DVD's, please send me an email and I will
place you on the interested list. When Volume #2 is ready to ship in a few
weeks, I will send you a notice to let you know the details. Thanks and if
you have any questions, or if I can help you in any way, please do not
hesitate to contact me. Take care and all the best to you and yours!

--
Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry...

Steven D. Russell
Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio
The Woodlands, Texas

Machinery, Tool and Product Testing for the Woodworking and Woodturning
Industries

³Woodturning with Steven D. Russell² Volume #1 CD ROM * Available for
Shipment
³Woodturning with Steven D. Russell² Volume #2 CD ROM/DVD Video * Available
Soon




On 8/8/04 11:33 AM, in article
. net, "Maxprop"
wrote:


"Steven D. Russell" wrote in message

One of the easiest ways to make oil finishes build faster is to seal the
wood first, then apply your chosen oil finish. I prefer using thin Lacquer
as a primary sealer...

After sealing with lacquer, is it necessary to sand again before applying
the oil. Frankly it comes as a surprise that oil can be applied over
lacquer. I'd never have guessed.

The rest of your post is full of valuable info as well, Steven. Thanks.
And I definitely would like your two media discs. Do you have a website.
(sorry, I'm fairly new around here)

Max

"Steven D. Russell" wrote in message


If you prefer wire wool,
consider bronze wire wool (no rusting).

Bronze wool is a staple for working on boats. That's all I have. But I,
like you, have developed a preference for synthetics.


Max

I chose Daly's Sea-Fin Teak Oil based on Russ Fairfield's recommendation on
http://www.woodcentral.com/russ/finish7.shtml He prefers it to Waterlox.
Plus it is available by the gallon in my lumberyard. Maybe the sanding
sealer would be the important change from my method currently, to allow
faster build, especially on porous woods.

Derek


"Ray Sandusky" wrote in message
...
Why reinvent the wheel - just get some WaterLox and have an easy to use and
beautiful finsih that is food safe and durable without the headaches of
mixing your own - this stuff is the best!

Ray

On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 10:45:50 -0500, "Ray Sandusky"
wrote:

Why reinvent the wheel - just get some WaterLox and have an easy to use and
beautiful finsih that is food safe and durable without the headaches of
mixing your own - this stuff is the best!

Ditto...I "discovered" Waterlox about a year ago...thanks to this
group, and absolutely love it.

--
Chuck *#:^)
chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply.


September 11, 2001 - Never Forget


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

A gestalt happened while dozing during tonite's boring football game. A
universal unified homemade finish I guarantee will finish your bowls.


Mix equal parts, boil and let rest 1 year:

dose of mineral oil
little dab of brylcreme
harem of virgin olive oil
quart of motor oil
soup'con of turtle oil
shell of peanut oil
imprint of sealing wax
smear of vaseline
Q-tip of ear wax
kernel of walnut oil
flitch of teak oil
buff of shoe wax
hive of bee's wax
patty of butter
tub of lard
dram of essential oils
one from column B of sesame oil
scratch of T-tree oil
blow of whale oil
cup of grease
can of bearing oil
slick of brillianteen
ouch of sandy K-Y jelly
bouquet of safflower oil
boil of linseed oil.
garden of vegetable oil
film of tung oil
sniff of lemon oil
spread of oleomargarine
boll of cottonseed oil
implant of silicone
unction of snake oil

(this is enough for a good finish. Besides the game is getting
interesting and the beer is getting cold)

Keep refrigerated. shake well before using. Do not use while
intoxicated.
Questions or to report any untoward reactions: 1-800- /+-)(*&^%$#@! 4am
tuesdays in Feb. of leap years. Please hold, your call is important to
us. Arch

Fortiter,


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

In article ,
"Steven D. Russell" wrote:

One thing to consider when whipping up a batch of your own oil is that
Linseed Oil and Pure Gum Spirits of Turpentine will alter (darken) the
colour of your wood over time. Linseed oil has a habit of turning very dark
to almost black over long periods of time... Go to any antique store and you
will see this on old pieces finished with Linseed oil. Currently, there is
no way to chemically reverse the colour degradation caused by Linseed oil.

Are you sure this same result would occur with modern boil't linseed oil?

I've heard the argument that the antiques that appear dark may be due to
the much dirtier heating systems of old - oil, coal and wood soot
becoming embedded in the finish. (I do know that raw linseed oil used
outdoors will often host mildew which will turn it very dark- but that's
a different situation.)

Hello Owen,

No doubt dirty conditions in days long past contribute to the colour of
antiques, but the propensity of Linseed oil to darken is well known in
chemistry circles. I know of a few chemists who have spent years trying to
find a way to chemically reverse this problem with Linseed oil. No one has
ever been able to reverse the colour change without damaging the wood, which
is obviously undesirable. Should you find a way, you would no doubt be a
very rich man.

Raw Linseed oil is the raw oil that has been packaged without any additives.
Boiled Linseed Oils are similar, except the boiled version has been altered
through the addition of chemical drying accelerators (solvents and
siccatives/driers) and may also include up to 15% Stand Oil, so the colour
change would be similar, if not more apparent in the boiled version.

Driers are oil soluble metal salts of organic acids. When these driers are
dissolved in aliphatic or aromatic hydrocarbons, they are know as
siccatives. When driers are added to drying oils, they are known as "Boiled
Oils" Siccatives can also cause colour changes, depending on the specific
types used.

--
Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry...

Steven D. Russell
Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio
The Woodlands, Texas

Machinery, Tool and Product Testing for the Woodworking and Woodturning
Industries

³Woodturning with Steven D. Russell² Volume #1 CD ROM * Available
Volume #2 CD ROM/DVD Video * Available Soon

On 8/18/04 9:48 PM, in article
, "Owen Lowe"
wrote:

In article ,
"Steven D. Russell" wrote:

One thing to consider when whipping up a batch of your own oil is that
Linseed Oil and Pure Gum Spirits of Turpentine will alter (darken) the
colour of your wood over time. Linseed oil has a habit of turning very dark
to almost black over long periods of time... Go to any antique store and you
will see this on old pieces finished with Linseed oil. Currently, there is
no way to chemically reverse the colour degradation caused by Linseed oil.

Are you sure this same result would occur with modern boil't linseed oil?

I've heard the argument that the antiques that appear dark may be due to
the much dirtier heating systems of old - oil, coal and wood soot
becoming embedded in the finish. (I do know that raw linseed oil used
outdoors will often host mildew which will turn it very dark- but that's
a different situation.)

Hi Steven,

I use Tried and True polymerized linseed oil which is supposed to have no
solvents or driers. I use a UV light booth to accelerate the drying and
find that the color change is what I would expect if I left the wood in
direct sunlight for a period of time.

Any thoughts on whether or not your experiments with UV inhibitors might
prevent the "normal" change I am seeing?

ps - glad to have you back!

George

"Steven D. Russell" wrote in message
...
Hello Owen,

No doubt dirty conditions in days long past contribute to the colour of
antiques, but the propensity of Linseed oil to darken is well known in
chemistry circles. I know of a few chemists who have spent years trying to
find a way to chemically reverse this problem with Linseed oil. No one has
ever been able to reverse the colour change without damaging the wood,
which
is obviously undesirable. Should you find a way, you would no doubt be a
very rich man.

Raw Linseed oil is the raw oil that has been packaged without any
additives.
Boiled Linseed Oils are similar, except the boiled version has been
altered
through the addition of chemical drying accelerators (solvents and
siccatives/driers) and may also include up to 15% Stand Oil, so the colour
change would be similar, if not more apparent in the boiled version.

Driers are oil soluble metal salts of organic acids. When these driers are
dissolved in aliphatic or aromatic hydrocarbons, they are know as
siccatives. When driers are added to drying oils, they are known as
"Boiled
Oils" Siccatives can also cause colour changes, depending on the specific
types used.

--
Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry...

Steven D. Russell
Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio
The Woodlands, Texas

Machinery, Tool and Product Testing for the Woodworking and Woodturning
Industries

³Woodturning with Steven D. Russell² Volume #1 CD ROM * Available
Volume #2 CD ROM/DVD Video * Available Soon

On 8/18/04 9:48 PM, in article
, "Owen Lowe"
wrote:

In article ,
"Steven D. Russell" wrote:

One thing to consider when whipping up a batch of your own oil is that
Linseed Oil and Pure Gum Spirits of Turpentine will alter (darken) the
colour of your wood over time. Linseed oil has a habit of turning very
dark
to almost black over long periods of time... Go to any antique store
and you
will see this on old pieces finished with Linseed oil. Currently, there
is
no way to chemically reverse the colour degradation caused by Linseed
oil.

Are you sure this same result would occur with modern boil't linseed
oil?

I've heard the argument that the antiques that appear dark may be due to
the much dirtier heating systems of old - oil, coal and wood soot
becoming embedded in the finish. (I do know that raw linseed oil used
outdoors will often host mildew which will turn it very dark- but that's
a different situation.)

Hello George,

Thanks for the kind words... :-) Are you referring to the
yellowing/darkening of the Linseed oil during the cure cycle?

The yellowing of linseed oil is generally thought to be caused when
conjugated unsaturated hydroperoxides are converted into conjugated
unsaturated ketones. These unsaturated ketones can produce long-chain
coloured polyenes. Additionally, if 1,4 diketones are formed during the
drying, enol tautomers can react with trace amounts of atmospheric
ammonia. This produces a substituted pyrrole, which can be converted into a
coloured product by oxidation, or by condensation in the presence of formic
acid.

Coloured metal siccatives also play a role in the discoloration and/or
yellowing of linseed oil. To alleviate the yellowing, saturated aliphatic
aldehydes may be added to the oil by some manufacturers. The composition of
manufactured BLO can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. The area where
the plant grew also plays a part in the specific composition of the base
Linseed oil.

My UV inhibitor experiments are centred on the use of Transparent Titanium
Dioxide (TTD's) and Hindered Amine Light Stabilisers (HALS), in conjunction
with various finishes, including oils. Each of these brings a unique level
of protection to the finish, forestalling colour changes and the degradation
of the film finish. Since the composition of the base oil can have marked
differences, depending on the area in which it grew, I limited the in
initial experiments to one manufacturers brand to limit the variables. Using
the knowledge gained from that series of experiments, I expanded the test to
include commonly available oils.

My testing in this area has spanned several years and has provided a new
understanding of the effect of UV on surface films, as well as the ultimate
mechanisms of attack from UV on the surface film itself. There are ways to
limit, or forestall the degradation of the surface film. There are also
measures that can be implemented to reduce the attendant colour changes
caused by some film finishes. However, it must be understood that not all
colour changes are caused by UV. Other mechanisms can also play a role in
colour change, some of these we can exert control over through various
measures.

I hope to be able to publish the results of my experiments with UV
inhibitors later this year. It may be difficult getting a magazine to
publish it though, as to explain the overall problem and the control
measures necessary, requires a thorough discussion of the mechanisms of
attack, and the measures required to control it. Take care and all the best
to you and yours!

--
Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry...

Steven D. Russell
Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio
The Woodlands, Texas

Machinery, Tool and Product Testing for the Woodworking and Woodturning
Industries

³Woodturning with Steven D. Russell² Volume #1 CD ROM * Available
Volume #2 CD ROM/DVD Video * Available Soon






On 8/21/04 5:34 AM, in article , "George Saridakis"
wrote:

Hi Steven,

I use Tried and True polymerized linseed oil which is supposed to have no
solvents or driers. I use a UV light booth to accelerate the drying and
find that the color change is what I would expect if I left the wood in
direct sunlight for a period of time.

Any thoughts on whether or not your experiments with UV inhibitors might
prevent the "normal" change I am seeing?

ps - glad to have you back!

George

"Steven D. Russell" wrote in message
...
Hello Owen,

No doubt dirty conditions in days long past contribute to the colour of
antiques, but the propensity of Linseed oil to darken is well known in
chemistry circles. I know of a few chemists who have spent years trying to
find a way to chemically reverse this problem with Linseed oil. No one has
ever been able to reverse the colour change without damaging the wood,
which
is obviously undesirable. Should you find a way, you would no doubt be a
very rich man.

Raw Linseed oil is the raw oil that has been packaged without any
additives.
Boiled Linseed Oils are similar, except the boiled version has been
altered
through the addition of chemical drying accelerators (solvents and
siccatives/driers) and may also include up to 15% Stand Oil, so the colour
change would be similar, if not more apparent in the boiled version.

Driers are oil soluble metal salts of organic acids. When these driers are
dissolved in aliphatic or aromatic hydrocarbons, they are know as
siccatives. When driers are added to drying oils, they are known as
"Boiled
Oils" Siccatives can also cause colour changes, depending on the specific
types used.

--
Better Woodturning and Finishing Through Chemistry...

Steven D. Russell
Eurowood Werks Woodturning Studio
The Woodlands, Texas

Machinery, Tool and Product Testing for the Woodworking and Woodturning
Industries

³Woodturning with Steven D. Russell² Volume #1 CD ROM * Available
Volume #2 CD ROM/DVD Video * Available Soon

On 8/18/04 9:48 PM, in article
, "Owen Lowe"
wrote:

In article ,
"Steven D. Russell" wrote:

One thing to consider when whipping up a batch of your own oil is that
Linseed Oil and Pure Gum Spirits of Turpentine will alter (darken) the
colour of your wood over time. Linseed oil has a habit of turning very
dark
to almost black over long periods of time... Go to any antique store
and you
will see this on old pieces finished with Linseed oil. Currently, there
is
no way to chemically reverse the colour degradation caused by Linseed
oil.

Are you sure this same result would occur with modern boil't linseed
oil?

I've heard the argument that the antiques that appear dark may be due to
the much dirtier heating systems of old - oil, coal and wood soot
becoming embedded in the finish. (I do know that raw linseed oil used
outdoors will often host mildew which will turn it very dark- but that's
a different situation.)