I've been buying walnut oil for my turnings and on my last trip to the
grocer. They had walnut oil with 10% vitamin E for half the price of
100% walnut oil. ANyone used the with Vitamin E version?

-TH

"THumphr" wrote in message
...
I've been buying walnut oil for my turnings and on my last trip to the
grocer. They had walnut oil with 10% vitamin E for half the price of
100% walnut oil. ANyone used the with Vitamin E version?

-TH

I think the vitamin E minimizes the appearance of stretch marks in the wood
from over-tightening your expanding 4 jaw chuck.

Jr

"THumphr" wrote in message
...
I've been buying walnut oil for my turnings and on my last trip to the
grocer. They had walnut oil with 10% vitamin E for half the price of
100% walnut oil. ANyone used the with Vitamin E version?


Anti-oxidant, isn't it? You want oxidation to cure the oil.

"THumphr" wrote in message
...
I've been buying walnut oil for my turnings and on my last trip to the
grocer. They had walnut oil with 10% vitamin E for half the price of
100% walnut oil. ANyone used the with Vitamin E version?



Isn't that sold for cooking purposes?

Max

On Apr 17, 2:25 pm, "Rob" wrote:


I think the vitamin E minimizes the appearance of stretch marks in the wood
from over-tightening your expanding 4 jaw chuck.

Jr

Hah! Got pretty good snort out that one. Now if it will just help
repair the damage done to the fibers by cutting with a dull gouge or
over sanding...

Robert

On Apr 17, 4:28 pm, "George" wrote:

ANyone used the with Vitamin E version?

Anti-oxidant, isn't it? You want oxidation to cure the oil.

Unchararcteristic of you, George.

No worries about the antioxidants keeping the oil from curing, unless
of course the tocopherols stop the free radicals from aging the oil in
a destructive manner.

The tocopherals found in natural curing vitamin E are a water soluble
esterized oil found in many nuts, olive, soybeans, and some other
plants. Synthetic viatmin E (most likely in this oil) is found in the
labs of manufacturer, and although almost worthless in the eyes of
many researchers as a health supplement or treatment, is still water
soluble.

The vitamin E shouldn' hurt a thing in regards to an oil finish.

It will NOT be the same as the Mahoney oil, though.

Robert

"George" wrote: Anti-oxidant, isn't it? You want oxidation to cure the
oil.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I don't believe walnut oil is a "drying oil" like linseed oil or tung oil,
which means it does not polymerize by reacting with oxygen. If you were
kidding, my apologies for jumping in like this.

"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message
...

"George" wrote: Anti-oxidant, isn't it? You want oxidation to cure the
oil.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I don't believe walnut oil is a "drying oil" like linseed oil or tung oil,
which means it does not polymerize by reacting with oxygen. If you were
kidding, my apologies for jumping in like this.

Wipe some on a piece of glass and let it cure. You'll notice it's clearer
than tung, lighter in color than linseed if you do comparison wipes.

wrote in message
oups.com...
On Apr 17, 4:28 pm, "George" wrote:

ANyone used the with Vitamin E version?

Anti-oxidant, isn't it? You want oxidation to cure the oil.

Unchararcteristic of you, George.

No worries about the antioxidants keeping the oil from curing, unless
of course the tocopherols stop the free radicals from aging the oil in
a destructive manner.

Don't know how to put tongue in cheek in chatroom-ese. Nonetheless, having
bought some with calcium propionate or some such in it on the store shelves,
I learned that oxidation is what others call "spoilage." Never cured.

"George" wrote in message
. net...

"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message
...

"George" wrote: Anti-oxidant, isn't it? You want oxidation to cure the
oil.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I don't believe walnut oil is a "drying oil" like linseed oil or tung
oil, which means it does not polymerize by reacting with oxygen. If you
were kidding, my apologies for jumping in like this.

Wipe some on a piece of glass and let it cure. You'll notice it's clearer
than tung, lighter in color than linseed if you do comparison wipes.

. . . and you can cook with it. g

Max

On Apr 18, 5:22 am, "George" wrote:

Don't know how to put tongue in cheek in chatroom-ese. Nonetheless, having
bought some with calcium propionate or some such in it on the store shelves,
I learned that oxidation is what others call "spoilage." Never cured.

Should have known you were funnin'. I am bad about not putting the
smiley faced winks at the end of mine, too.

And those oils NEVER will cure, either. Nothing in there to make them
cure.

I may or may not be correct in assuming that someone is trying to
mimic Mike Mahoney's Walnut oil finish, but the stuff at Walgreens or
at your local supermarket won't do it.

I remember a group conversation with Stuart Batty (pretty sure it was
him) when he was down here on a demo, and he said that he though they
heat treated Mike's walnut oil he sells in a very specific way, and
only add one ingredient of some sort to make his product cure.

And by the way for anyone still following this thread, Boiled Linseed
Oil isn't actually boiled. Like most tung oil, it is infused with
metallic dryers that cause it to cure. And like most finishes, both
these oil products are not used in the kitchen as cooking ingredients,
and are sold as products, not a ingredients. Kinda of like saying you
want a "Coke" when you want some kind of carbonated drink. So you can
never be 100% sure exactly what the ingredients are, or their
percentages.

Robert

wrote: (clip) And by the way for anyone still
following this thread, Boiled Linseed Oil isn't actually boiled. Like most
tung oil, it is infused with metallic dryers that cause it to cure. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The term "boiled" comes from the fact that the oil is heated to dissolve the
driers. The other kind is called "raw," and it also dries by oxidation, but
much more slowly.

On Apr 18, 1:33 pm, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The term "boiled" comes from the fact that the oil is heated to dissolve the
driers. The other kind is called "raw," and it also dries by oxidation, but
much more slowly.

Learn something new every day. I didn't know they heated the oil at
all, I just assumed that it was some kind of metal that had a
compatible carrier solvent.

As for the raw stuff, I haven't had much luck with it drying on its
own. I have done OK with it in some homebrews, but that is because it
is mixed with miscible solvents that thin it to the point it dries
more quickly.

Leo - I know for years until the days of modern chemistry they used
psyllium/flax as the source of linseed oils. Some still do. As much
finishing as I do, I don't use BLO or LO for much anymore due to "the
need for speed".

Do you know what BLO is made from now? Same stuff? Blend?

Robert

wrote:

And those oils NEVER will cure, either. Nothing in there to make them
cure.

I may or may not be correct in assuming that someone is trying to
mimic Mike Mahoney's Walnut oil finish, but the stuff at Walgreens or
at your local supermarket won't do it.
(clipped for brevity)
Robert



Googling on "walnut oil finish' turned up some interesting observations
regarding walnut oil.

"Unlike some vegetable oils, walnut oil eventually will polymerize to a
hardened finish, and it contains no potentially harmful metallic
driers."
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworki....aspx?id=26047
(this after noting that a cloth soaked in Mahoneys Walnut Oil had not
hardened after a week and had been set in the coldest part of the room.
It was a sabotaged experiment, as Mahoneys oil is not meant to be used
in that fashion and cooling will slow the hardening of almost any finish.)

"Non-catalyzed oils: It takes some searching to find linseed in a
non-catalyzed form. Tung oil is readily available in both forms and
walnut oil is usually only available as non-catalyzed. Although all
three oils are edible, walnut oil is the only one available in the oil
section of your grocery store. Basically, the only difference between
catalyzed and non-catalyzed oils is the time it takes for the oil to
dry, harden and cure. Catalyzed oils dry in 10-24 hours, non-catalyzed
will take 75-90 days. That walnut oil from Hain you may have been
applying to your flute takes three months to mature, during which time
oils go through sticky to gummy to semi-hard to hard phases. Should you
have any doubt about the drying time of non-catalyzed oils pour out a
thin layer into a lid (or other thin flat container) and observe the
hardening process over its course." http://www.navaching.com/shaku/oil.html

While a three month drying time (at ambient conditions) seems like a
long time, it IS somewhat shorter than 'never'. Moreover, we typically
rough turn bowls as much as a year ahead, so what's an additional 3
months for a deep soaking in walnut oil IF there is a reason for using
walnut oil (such as its clarity) over some other?

I found several similar observations as well as this rather long
write-up from a fellow practitioner who has found a way to skip with the
lengthy dry times. Basically he is doing what Mahoney does, applying
heat to hasten the polymerization of the oil but, whereas Mahoney stops
while he still has a shippable product, this guy carries it through to
its conclusion.

http://handturnedbowls.biz/data/finish%20process.txt

Bill

PS -- I am in full agreement to skip the walnut oil with anti-oxidants
added -- the walnut oil needs to oxidize.
--
http://nmwoodworks.com/cube


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wrote in message
ups.com...
On Apr 18, 5:22 am, "George" wrote:

Don't know how to put tongue in cheek in chatroom-ese. Nonetheless,
having
bought some with calcium propionate or some such in it on the store
shelves,
I learned that oxidation is what others call "spoilage." Never cured.

Should have known you were funnin'. I am bad about not putting the
smiley faced winks at the end of mine, too.

And those oils NEVER will cure, either. Nothing in there to make them
cure.


Yep, those commercials that promise smooth ageless young skin from topical
vitamin E keep me laughing. FWIW, walnut oil warmed in the sun will cure to
the touch in about three days when things are fairly dry. You can peel it
off the surface and discover it's tacky underneath, but it does work well
for medium coloration and a bit of water resistance. Linseed can be
boiled, as in having oxygen bubbled through it (at 20%) until it actually
begins to gel.

As to what BLO is, it's Linseed - flax - from which linen is made. I
remember the beautiful fields of flax in North Dakota from back when. Then
there's the flexible gel version used with canvas to make linoleum, a
flexible, durable floor covering.

On Apr 18, 1:52 pm, Bill in Detroit wrote:

*Snip* of good links and good info

Bill - if it takes weeks, to me, that means it never cures. If it
takes more than a week, sadly... to me it never cures. I don't have
the time, temperment, or inclination to let things like that go on too
long.

I have marked those links, though. There is some really good info on
them.

PS -- I am in full agreement to skip the walnut oil with anti-oxidants
added -- the walnut oil needs to oxidize.
--http://nmwoodworks.com/cube


I was suspicious when I read George's post, as he usually doesn't
miss. That's why I didn't really sound off. HE WAS KIDDING. The
antioxidants properties in vitamin E work only upon live, organic
organims. Here is how vitamin E is used:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/002406.htm

Read the "definition" and "function" parts of that page.

The reference of having antioxidants has no pertinance as to the
catalysing properties of the oil esters and resins in walnut oil as a
wood finish. Zero. Its only relevance to the phrase "anti oxidant"
is the fact that when ingested it will combat the effects of ill
health and aging on a cellular level, mostly as pertains to human
beings.

Mechanically, it does not affect the molecular activity of the Walnut
oil when catalysing as the polymeric reaction to oxygen (mechanical)
is not the same thing as killing free radicals on an organic level.

BTW, further reading of the benefits of vitamin E as an emolient seem
to be no better than any other oil as when it isn't directly ingested
as to flow into the bloodstream it cannot function as a killer of free
radicals.

Robert

wrote:
m.

PS -- I am in full agreement to skip the walnut oil with anti-oxidants
added -- the walnut oil needs to oxidize.
--http://nmwoodworks.com/cube


I was suspicious when I read George's post, as he usually doesn't
miss. That's why I didn't really sound off. HE WAS KIDDING. The
antioxidants properties in vitamin E work only upon live, organic
organims. Here is how vitamin E is used:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/002406.htm

snip
BTW, further reading of the benefits of vitamin E as an emolient seem
to be no better than any other oil as when it isn't directly ingested
as to flow into the bloodstream it cannot function as a killer of free
radicals.

Robert

Actually I had in mind the calcium propionate, which is, I believe added
to improve product stability in the bottle.

At any rate, I've had reasonable success using walnut oil on my pens. I
apply it generously, wipe the excess and then go straight to CA without
waiting for the oil to dry. Overnight is the most it ever gets and I
actually think that I get better results if I apply the CA immediately.

YMMV, void where prohibited, and so on.

Bill


--
http://nmwoodworks.com/cube


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