The Silicon Valley Woodturners are having Binh Pho out for a
bit of Show and Tell. THAT got me to finally get around to
joining a club. May even take one of Rich Johnson's all day
Turning Boot Camps.

Being a self taught turner (bookshelf of turning books, a couple
of feet of DVDs and VHS tapes) I've come up with ways to
turn all sorts of between centers stuff including multi off
center stuff and out of anything I can lay my hands on. You
prune it and if it's wood I'll try and turn it. Got a SuperNova2
chuck a while back and another not long after, along with most
of the jaw sets. Before that it was weed pots, now lidded
boxes and some bowls are do-able. Almost closed vessels are
on the Learn to Do list.

Up to now I've only gotten together with one turner - for about
an hour. He showed me how to make my straight skews into
curved skews - though not quite as curved as Raffan's. THAT
took the SCAREEEEE out of the skew and opened up all kinds
of ways to use skews. Joining this club should provide some
feed back on the stuff I'm doing, turn me on to things I would
never have thought of, or thought of actually trying, maybe
help somebody less experienced (someday down the line) and
get told "you're doing it all wrong" or "my way's better" - in
addition to "here's one way to do ...".

Anyone else join a club?

charlie b

spray can

HomeLife

Ant & Roach
KILLER

kills fast
kills for up to 4 weeks
non-staining
no oily residue

country scent

do the words home, life and killer go together
and what is
country scent?
Which country?

charlie b wrote:
The Silicon Valley Woodturners are having Binh Pho out for a
bit of Show and Tell. THAT got me to finally get around to
joining a club.

SNIP

Anyone else join a club?

charlie b


I had a lot of fun turning, then I joined our local club and really had
a lot more fun. There are a couple in the the club that could easily
match the turnings I have seen at national events.

Being a professional woodworker, I liked the freedom that woodturning
gives you. No two turners turn alike, and some don't even turn in a
similar manner. But so many turn out so much good work. I have
always, really enjoyed that aspect. The best part of the club meeting
was the open house days where we could go up on a Saturday and check
out each others grinds, techniques, and choice of tools in a "hands on"
environment.

But our club has turned stodgy, and we now have "artists" that don't
just turn wood for the joy of turning. Worse, since some have been
turning for al of 2 - 3 years now, they have formed their own cliques
of the "more experienced" turners. And since we have a lot of retirees
and 8 - 5 in there, they have moved the meeting time up so it is more
convenient for them. It used to be at 7, now it is 6:15 or so. It was
explained to me thusly: Well, Robert, you NEED to get more organized.
Off at five o'clock, (NONE of these guys have ever been self employed
for a moment) then home for a quick dinner while watching the evening
news. Sometimes, just sometimes, you have to leave before it is over.
Then straight to the meeting with no screwing around. I have to learn
to schedule, they tell me. BTW, with NO traffic, the meeting place is
20 minutes from my office with no traffic (Sunday, 4 in the morning)
but about 45 minutes or more during rush hours.

OK. Off at five? I am a general contractor. Maybe when it is
raining. Maybe not when it is raining - I may be bailing water.

Dinner on the table at 5:30? What world do they live in? I actually,
literally, don't know anyone that gets that. I don't know how that
happens... I wouldn't even ask.

And they make you feel uncomfortable when you come in a few minutes
late. For these guys, "early is on time, on time is late". Great.
Again, just a little discipline on my part would go a long way. They
have forgotten woodturning is just a hobby, no matter how serious they
are about it. No lives are saved during a woodturnign get together.

The upshot is that we have no new blood coming into the club. If folks
work on another side of town, they can't make the meeting due to
traffic. If they are salaried, they may not get off at 5:00 on the
nose so they can't take care of anything else, but must run straight to
the meeting, some in their white collar garb. If they get off at 5,
they may need to go home to make a head count and to feed kids and make
sure they are set for a couple of hours, so they will be late. If they
make it to be part of one of the cliques, they can call ahead and the
meeting can start a little late. If not, the meeting starts as soon as
the regulars are there, which means they will be late when they arrive.

I haven't been to a meeting in a year or so, but for about 5 years I
really looked forward to going every month. It was a blast. Unlike
now, it was come one, come all. Turnin' on a Sears monotube? No
problem, lets see hands on how many still use theirs. What, no scroll
chuck? No problem we are going to discuss ways around that. Only 8
turning tools to your name and no laser hollowing? We're making giant
calipers this month and a homemade hollower.

It was an environment of learning and comraderie. If you can find a
club like that Charlie, JOIN! Even if it for a little while, you will
be amazed at what others are doing, and how they are doing it. A
couple of tips I got at one meeting was worth the whole year's
memebership. I never learned more, quicker, than I did the first year
in our little club back in '97. And it was fun!

Robert

Robert
It is time to find or start another club. I am a pastor of a small church.
There are a few of us in my turning club as well as everyone from a Lee
Valley worker to contractors, teachers, business people and retirees. For
most of us turning is a release from the pressures of work. Who needs a lot
of meeting pressure added? If you are late someone should heave a sigh of
relief that you are ok and welcome you with a grin. If you blow a turning
you have some great kindling. If you are late for a meeting the other guy
gets the better chair. The world does not stop, nobody dies, things are
good. These guys need to relax and enjoy a bit of life. My two cents any
way.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS, Canada
http://aroundthewoods.com
http://roundopinions.blogspot.com

Darrell Feltmate wrote:
Robert
It is time to find or start another club. I am a pastor of a small church.
There are a few of us in my turning club as well as everyone from a Lee
Valley worker to contractors, teachers, business people and retirees. For
most of us turning is a release from the pressures of work. Who needs a lot
of meeting pressure added? If you are late someone should heave a sigh of
relief that you are ok and welcome you with a grin. If you blow a turning
you have some great kindling. If you are late for a meeting the other guy
gets the better chair. The world does not stop, nobody dies, things are
good. These guys need to relax and enjoy a bit of life. My two cents any
way.

Darrell - I couldn't agree more with everything you said. For years
that was a real bright spot for me. I enjoyed the group for all the
reasons you guys do. And I miss the fact that we used to make things
for local groups and charities - lamps, Christmas ornaments,
candlesticks, etc. for them to auction for school supplies or food.
There were some other neat things that we did along the way, also.
However, the current group isn't interested in that since we are
elevated to artists.

I have volunteered and actually did a long demo for the guys last year.
I was having fun and they knew it, and when I was finished most gave
me a standing ovation. I got a lot of handshakes and claps on the back
when I was leaving. Probably more for the entertainment value than
what they learned about turning, but the point was I had many come to
me after the meeting and actually thank me!

This ****ed off the old guard. I was showing the group how to turn off
center mushrooms. We have a very common tree here that dries out and
leaves a thick, leathery bark on it that will stay on when you turn it,
so you can get some really neat designs. With misshapen heads and
curved stems they were quite an unexpected hit. But as a simple
mushroom, they didn't carry the weight of a 84 piece segmented bowl, or
a new thin walled vase made to exhibit artistry and skill. The fun
aspect was deemed a bit frivolous, and a couple of the guys actually
got up and walked out! No kidding... walked out!

Later, I went to some of the other members that feel like I do, but
they just don't have the energy to do anything else. We talked about
having different guys do short demos, changing up the challenges, and
occasional Saturday meeting, and more camraderie building time. I have
pushed this rock as far as it will go. Most of the younger guys are
giving up, and instead of just grinding away on wood like a madman and
making bags of shavings, they are tired of having their projects looked
at with polite restraint.

To me, all the projects are great. To me, they all deserve
encouragement and appreciation no matter what their skill level. I am
not impressed with tool snobs. And as a professional woodworker for
over 30 years, I am not impressed with someone that blows their own
horn about becoming proficient at one tiny bit of the whole scope of
woodworking. Wood TURNING is one tiny aspect of woodworking. That's
all. It is one facet on the diamond. And in that respect, I think it
is among the easiest of things to learn. You can turn out great
projects without learning to measure accurately, grains and defects are
celebrated not worked around or hidden, and it only has to look like
something you think it should. No plans or plan reading skill needed.
For the most part, no fitting of joints, and no need to make several
pieces identical (like a chair maker). Wood turning can be as hard or
as easy as anyone wants it to be. One size fits all.

This is supposed to be a hobby. This is supposed to be fun. If I had
another place to meet, I would probably try at another club. Most
places here have insurance (including homes) that won't let you have a
meeting or congregation that engages in potentially dangerous
activities. This means power tools. And as for a commercial venue,
forget it. Same insurance concerns in spades. And the guys that are
interested in making more out of the current club just don't see it
changing, and a couple have decided that it may even be time to move a
little away from woodturning.

Dunno what I am going to do. Off the soapbox now...

Robert

Hi Robert, Binh Pho would probably be bewildered as a demonstrator for
your club. Your club does seem unusual with an entirely different set of
old guys than in the clubs I've belonged to or the turners I've known.
Arrogance of expertise, love of Robert's rules (not you, Robert, 'G'),
pride of equipment and being part of an obnoxious clique was never a
function of age in my clubs or with my turning pals.

True, some oldsters do deliberately walk out on a younger demonstrator,
but this is more likely due to two cups of coffee and not having a
'society bladder' than to being mean spirited.

You make some very cogent points and it's easy to understand your anger
and frustration. I hope not to add to it by urging you to lighten up and
try one more time. We all hide behind our protective masks, but not all
our masks are hiding a crotchety ole coot.

Your friend, Arch

Arch wrote:
Hi Robert, Binh Pho would probably be bewildered as a demonstrator for
your club. Your club does seem unusual with an entirely different set of
old guys than in the clubs I've belonged to or the turners I've known.
Arrogance of expertise, love of Robert's rules (not you, Robert, 'G'),
pride of equipment and being part of an obnoxious clique was never a
function of age in my clubs or with my turning pals.

SNIP

Your friend, Arch

If I go back to the club, it will be with the hopes that the artists
have formed their own group. Annoyed with the silly questions of the
beginners or those that don't have a lot of time to practice, they were
seriously thinking they should form their own group for the "advanced"
turners so they could "cover more ground" and "get more done" (think
mutual admiration society) during meetings. They felt it was hard to
soar with the newbies or untalented attached to their necks.

Please understand too, that our club has the same demographic that most
turning clubs do, and that is middle aged or older guys. Not
necessarily retired, either. At 50, I am one of the younger ones to be
sure, but there is no reason for younger folks to join. When you are
patronized or ignored from the get go because of your age and/or
equipment (or lack thereof), you aren't coming back no matter who does
it to you, old or young. I do not mean that the older guys are the
culprits, but some of them actually are. But it is not because they
are old; some of the guys I get along just great with think this is a
great hobby and they have a lot of fun with it and I have a lot of fun
with them.

The older guys that treat people poorly are just sanctimonious jerks.
It has nothing to do with age; these guys were probably jerks their
whole lives.

But some of the older, retired guys do have a lot more money than the
rest of us. They are from a generation that actually had retirement
plans at companies, and now collecting their well earned benefits, they
have the disposable income to buy what they want, when they want it.
Here in San Antonio, TX, it is not unusual to have a military
retirement (at one time 5 active bases here), a company retirement, and
a spouse that collects Social Security. So with some planning, these
guys do OK. Their entry level lathe is a Vicmarc or Powermatic. The
only turn with the best tools. So they are in a different place
financially and career wise than the other half of the club. Those
with dependent families, those that are starting out in life, and those
that just don't make a lot of money to begin with.

But.... as it always seems to be, the very best turners in our club are
the nicest. They are the most willing to show someone what to do, how
to do it, and be encouraging the whole way. Our best turner is 77, and
is a great guy. He is a magician at selecting wood and deciding the
correct form. For him, he gets a chuckle out of how amazed some of us
are at what he does. Do anything for you except let you into his wood
stash. The second best turner is about the same way, but totally takes
his talent for granted. He is in 2 or 3 galleries himself, but he is
much more interested in promoting woodturning and having a good time
than blowing his own horn.

The other side of the coin is that the mediocre and just a little
better turners are the ones that think they are great. In thier mind,
their equipment gives them some kind of credibility and sense of
establishment in the woodturning community.

There are some other clubs here in Texas that turn out some fine work
and the members seem to have way too much fun. As we say in Texas,
"almost down the road" from us in Houston, there are two great clubs.
I have been around several of their members and at one of their
meetings. Great guys and even a few women. I would love to go to
their meetings, but "almost down the road" in Texas is a three hour
drive, so it isn't really practical.

I will probably go again to see what is happening just on the chance
that things are going better.

I hope.

Robert

On Fri, 03 Nov 2006 19:27:07 -0800, charlie b wrote:

Anyone else join a club?

charlie b


I did ... but I met them on the ONE Saturday a year they meet ... the rest
of the year the meeting is on Sunday during time I have set aside for
worship.

So they got my money. Once.

I'm open Monday, Wednesday and Friday evenings and Saturday from the
afternoon onward. Anybody in Metro Detroit want to get together on a
Saturday for some free-for all turning and over the shoulder kibitzing?
The minute it turns formal or the kitty grows much past the price of a
replacement coffee pot I'm gone ... but I'd be interested in getting
together about once a month to swap skills and stories with a group of
amiable, freshly showered, folks. ;-)

Bill

Well, if Detroit didn't blow it, "freshly showered" definitely did. 8^)


"Bill" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 03 Nov 2006 19:27:07 -0800, charlie b wrote:

Anyone else join a club?

charlie b


I did ... but I met them on the ONE Saturday a year they meet ... the rest
of the year the meeting is on Sunday during time I have set aside for
worship.

So they got my money. Once.

I'm open Monday, Wednesday and Friday evenings and Saturday from the
afternoon onward. Anybody in Metro Detroit want to get together on a
Saturday for some free-for all turning and over the shoulder kibitzing?
The minute it turns formal or the kitty grows much past the price of a
replacement coffee pot I'm gone ... but I'd be interested in getting
together about once a month to swap skills and stories with a group of
amiable, freshly showered, folks. ;-)

Bill



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

You know what they say - if you can't beat them, beat them from within.
Stage a coup!

Depending on how your club is organized, I would solicit many
supporters to attend a board election or a meeting, run for the board
of directors or force a discussion at a meeting having , get my friends
to do the same and vote out those dumb rules and/or dilettantes.
Worked for the Democrats yesterday. Rumsfeld is gone. Now it is your
turn.

Joe Fleming - San Diego

=========================================


wrote:
charlie b wrote:
The Silicon Valley Woodturners are having Binh Pho out for a
bit of Show and Tell. THAT got me to finally get around to
joining a club.

SNIP

Anyone else join a club?

charlie b


I had a lot of fun turning, then I joined our local club and really had
a lot more fun. There are a couple in the the club that could easily
match the turnings I have seen at national events.

Being a professional woodworker, I liked the freedom that woodturning
gives you. No two turners turn alike, and some don't even turn in a
similar manner. But so many turn out so much good work. I have
always, really enjoyed that aspect. The best part of the club meeting
was the open house days where we could go up on a Saturday and check
out each others grinds, techniques, and choice of tools in a "hands on"
environment.

But our club has turned stodgy, and we now have "artists" that don't
just turn wood for the joy of turning. Worse, since some have been
turning for al of 2 - 3 years now, they have formed their own cliques
of the "more experienced" turners. And since we have a lot of retirees
and 8 - 5 in there, they have moved the meeting time up so it is more
convenient for them. It used to be at 7, now it is 6:15 or so. It was
explained to me thusly: Well, Robert, you NEED to get more organized.
Off at five o'clock, (NONE of these guys have ever been self employed
for a moment) then home for a quick dinner while watching the evening
news. Sometimes, just sometimes, you have to leave before it is over.
Then straight to the meeting with no screwing around. I have to learn
to schedule, they tell me. BTW, with NO traffic, the meeting place is
20 minutes from my office with no traffic (Sunday, 4 in the morning)
but about 45 minutes or more during rush hours.

OK. Off at five? I am a general contractor. Maybe when it is
raining. Maybe not when it is raining - I may be bailing water.

Dinner on the table at 5:30? What world do they live in? I actually,
literally, don't know anyone that gets that. I don't know how that
happens... I wouldn't even ask.

And they make you feel uncomfortable when you come in a few minutes
late. For these guys, "early is on time, on time is late". Great.
Again, just a little discipline on my part would go a long way. They
have forgotten woodturning is just a hobby, no matter how serious they
are about it. No lives are saved during a woodturnign get together.

The upshot is that we have no new blood coming into the club. If folks
work on another side of town, they can't make the meeting due to
traffic. If they are salaried, they may not get off at 5:00 on the
nose so they can't take care of anything else, but must run straight to
the meeting, some in their white collar garb. If they get off at 5,
they may need to go home to make a head count and to feed kids and make
sure they are set for a couple of hours, so they will be late. If they
make it to be part of one of the cliques, they can call ahead and the
meeting can start a little late. If not, the meeting starts as soon as
the regulars are there, which means they will be late when they arrive.

I haven't been to a meeting in a year or so, but for about 5 years I
really looked forward to going every month. It was a blast. Unlike
now, it was come one, come all. Turnin' on a Sears monotube? No
problem, lets see hands on how many still use theirs. What, no scroll
chuck? No problem we are going to discuss ways around that. Only 8
turning tools to your name and no laser hollowing? We're making giant
calipers this month and a homemade hollower.

It was an environment of learning and comraderie. If you can find a
club like that Charlie, JOIN! Even if it for a little while, you will
be amazed at what others are doing, and how they are doing it. A
couple of tips I got at one meeting was worth the whole year's
memebership. I never learned more, quicker, than I did the first year
in our little club back in '97. And it was fun!

Robert

Sounds great Bill. Now if it was not for the 12 hour commute (or more)...

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS, Canada
http://aroundthewoods.com
http://roundopinions.blogspot.com
"Bill" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 03 Nov 2006 19:27:07 -0800, charlie b wrote:

Anyone else join a club?

charlie b


I did ... but I met them on the ONE Saturday a year they meet ... the rest
of the year the meeting is on Sunday during time I have set aside for
worship.

So they got my money. Once.

I'm open Monday, Wednesday and Friday evenings and Saturday from the
afternoon onward. Anybody in Metro Detroit want to get together on a
Saturday for some free-for all turning and over the shoulder kibitzing?
The minute it turns formal or the kitty grows much past the price of a
replacement coffee pot I'm gone ... but I'd be interested in getting
together about once a month to swap skills and stories with a group of
amiable, freshly showered, folks. ;-)

Bill

wrote:

snip

Most
places here have insurance (including homes) that won't let you have a
meeting or congregation that engages in potentially dangerous
activities. This means power tools. And as for a commercial venue,
forget it. Same insurance concerns in spades. And the guys that are
interested in making more out of the current club just don't see it
changing, and a couple have decided that it may even be time to move a
little away from woodturning.

At my first woodturners meeting I learned that the American
Association of Woodturners membership includes liability insurance
coverage.

http://www.woodturner.org/org/mbrship/

charlie b