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Woodturning (rec.crafts.woodturning) To discuss tools, techniques, styles, materials, shows and competitions, education and educational materials related to woodturning. All skill levels are welcome, from art turners to production turners, beginners to masters. |
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#1
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How long does it take?
Now there is a question I get a lot at wood shows. "How long does it take to
turn a bowl like that?" So what kind of an answer do you give? A couple of hours? Three or four? I turn rough and let dry so some may take a couple of months and some a couple of years until I get around to finish turning. Have they taken months, years, or 2-3 hours? I roughed out three salad bowls from spalted birch today. Each blank was brought inside and roughed to shape with a chain saw. All the extra pieces were picked up and tossed in a kindling box. A screw chuck was mounted. The piece was mounted on the lathe. After turning each piece was coated with anchorseal. Shavings were cleaned up and bagged for the compost pile.Tools were sharpened frequently and at one point I remade the stop blocks for the sharpening jig because the wheel was worn and the angles were off. So how did it take to rough the bowls? 45 minute each? An hour each? What do you enlightened folks say? -- God bless and safe turning Darrell Feltmate Truro, NS Canada www.aroundthewoods.com |
#2
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How long does it take?
Darrell Feltmate wrote:
Now there is a question I get a lot at wood shows. "How long does it take to turn a bowl like that?" So what kind of an answer do you give? A couple of hours? Three or four? I turn rough and let dry so some may take a couple of months and some a couple of years until I get around to finish turning. Have they taken months, years, or 2-3 hours? I roughed out three salad bowls from spalted birch today. Each blank was brought inside and roughed to shape with a chain saw. All the extra pieces were picked up and tossed in a kindling box. A screw chuck was mounted. The piece was mounted on the lathe. After turning each piece was coated with anchorseal. Shavings were cleaned up and bagged for the compost pile.Tools were sharpened frequently and at one point I remade the stop blocks for the sharpening jig because the wheel was worn and the angles were off. So how did it take to rough the bowls? 45 minute each? An hour each? What do you enlightened folks say? My response depends on what I am charging for it. Seriously though, I usually explain to them about the whole process the bowl goes through. I explain how long roughing takes; how long the drying process takes; the finish turning; and the finishing which I usually do when I have a large number of bowls to do. I try to give them an approximate time of actual work over the calendar time it takes from beginning to end. |
#3
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How long does it take?
Or, it takes a couple of hours, but first you practice for five years.
-- God bless and safe turning Darrell Feltmate Truro, NS Canada www.aroundthewoods.com |
#4
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How long does it take?
I give much the same spiel, but you know those people are always doing the
numbers in their head to figure your hourly wage so I always add a bit about how I would make pretty good money if I could keep it all, but the gallery takes half, there are show fees, equipment expense, paying my own insurance, self-employment taxes, etc, until what's left to pay for my time isn't a lot. Another favorite answer is that it is like asking an accomplished pianist how long it took him to learn a Scott Joplin tune. The answer might be "few hours and 15 years of practice," and that's how it is for me, too. -mike paulson, fort collins, co My response depends on what I am charging for it. Seriously though, I usually explain to them about the whole process the bowl goes through. I explain how long roughing takes; how long the drying process takes; the finish turning; and the finishing which I usually do when I have a large number of bowls to do. I try to give them an approximate time of actual work over the calendar time it takes from beginning to end. |
#5
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How long does it take?
"Darrell Feltmate" wrote:
Now there is a question I get a lot at wood shows. "How long does it take to turn a bowl like that?" So what kind of an answer do you give? A couple of hours? Three or four? I turn rough and let dry so some may take a couple of months and some a couple of years until I get around to finish turning. Have they taken months, years, or 2-3 hours? I roughed out three salad bowls from spalted birch today. Each blank was brought inside and roughed to shape with a chain saw. All the extra pieces were picked up and tossed in a kindling box. A screw chuck was mounted. The piece was mounted on the lathe. After turning each piece was coated with anchorseal. Shavings were cleaned up and bagged for the compost pile.Tools were sharpened frequently and at one point I remade the stop blocks for the sharpening jig because the wheel was worn and the angles were off. So how did it take to rough the bowls? 45 minute each? An hour each? What do you enlightened folks say? How old was the tree? |
#6
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How long does it take?
"Mike Paulson" wrote in message ... I give much the same spiel, but you know those people are always doing the numbers in their head to figure your hourly wage so I always add a bit about how I would make pretty good money if I could keep it all, but the gallery takes half, there are show fees, equipment expense, paying my own insurance, self-employment taxes, etc, until what's left to pay for my time isn't a lot. Personally, I wouldn't feel obligated to justify anything. It's art. There's talent involved. How can you price that? If someone wants to buy a piece, they'll pay what you ask. If not, they won't. Why price an object using time as a standard? |
#7
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How long does it take?
Just explain:
You turned it green and it took and hour or so. It sat on your shelf for several months to dry. Then you final turned and finished it and it took 2-3 hours. God worked on the tree for a hundred years or so. Raise your price and donate some to the pastor. RonB |
#8
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How long does it take?
RonB wrote
Raise your price and donate some to the pastor. Sounds good to me Ron, I am the pastor :-) -- God bless and safe turning Darrell Feltmate Truro, NS Canada www.aroundthewoods.com |
#9
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How long does it take?
Sounds good to me Ron, I am the pastor :-)
Well there you go. A plan!! |
#10
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How long does it take?
"Darrell Feltmate" wrote in message news:aveyf.82154$AP5.10406@edtnps84... Now there is a question I get a lot at wood shows. "How long does it take to turn a bowl like that?" So what kind of an answer do you give? A couple of hours? Three or four? I turn rough and let dry so some may take a couple of months and some a couple of years until I get around to finish turning. Have they taken months, years, or 2-3 hours? I roughed out three salad bowls from spalted birch today. Each blank was brought inside and roughed to shape with a chain saw. All the extra pieces were picked up and tossed in a kindling box. A screw chuck was mounted. The piece was mounted on the lathe. After turning each piece was coated with anchorseal. Shavings were cleaned up and bagged for the compost pile.Tools were sharpened frequently and at one point I remade the stop blocks for the sharpening jig because the wheel was worn and the angles were off. So how did it take to rough the bowls? 45 minute each? An hour each? What do you enlightened folks say? -- God bless and safe turning Darrell Feltmate Truro, NS Canada www.aroundthewoods.com Don't know what to tell you but................if you use baltic birch I have about an hours worth of grinding per bowl + 2-3 hours turning. No waiting for drying though (that is a plus). I think I would starve trying to sell these bowls. Remember Robert Sorby says in a catalog I have from them: "The only way to make a small fortune woodturning, is to start out with a large one." Unless the person buying an item has a lathe and the skills to create what you do..........the item should be a bargain at any price (within reason) regardless of time spent turning it. Good Luck Lyndell |
#11
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How long does it take?
"Lobby Dosser" wrote: How old was the tree? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Ha-ha. That question is valid only if you were the one who planted it. Seriously, though, try to put yourself in the customer's place. It's a valid question, stemming from interest and curiosity, probably, rather than haggling strategy. A reasonable answer would be, "It varies a lot, depending on the bowl, and a lot of factors--could go from half a day to a week, sometimes." |
#12
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How long does it take?
Hi Darrell,
I heard a good line about that very subject at a meeting today. My answer would be (52 yrs) Feel free to insert your own number here. Best wishes, Dave David Peebles Lyons, Ohio Revolutions Woodturning www.bowlturner.com "Darrell Feltmate" wrote in message news:aveyf.82154$AP5.10406@edtnps84... Now there is a question I get a lot at wood shows. "How long does it take to turn a bowl like that?" So what kind of an answer do you give? A couple of hours? Three or four? I turn rough and let dry so some may take a couple of months and some a couple of years until I get around to finish turning. Have they taken months, years, or 2-3 hours? I roughed out three salad bowls from spalted birch today. Each blank was brought inside and roughed to shape with a chain saw. All the extra pieces were picked up and tossed in a kindling box. A screw chuck was mounted. The piece was mounted on the lathe. After turning each piece was coated with anchorseal. Shavings were cleaned up and bagged for the compost pile.Tools were sharpened frequently and at one point I remade the stop blocks for the sharpening jig because the wheel was worn and the angles were off. So how did it take to rough the bowls? 45 minute each? An hour each? What do you enlightened folks say? -- God bless and safe turning Darrell Feltmate Truro, NS Canada www.aroundthewoods.com |
#13
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How long does it take?
"Leo Lichtman" wrote:
"Lobby Dosser" wrote: How old was the tree? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Ha-ha. That question is valid only if you were the one who planted it. Seriously, though, try to put yourself in the customer's place. It's a valid question, stemming from interest and curiosity, probably, rather than haggling strategy. A reasonable answer would be, "It varies a lot, depending on the bowl, and a lot of factors--could go from half a day to a week, sometimes." It's also an Odd question and, it seems to me, somewhat rude. Say you were buying a hand knit scarf, would you ask how long it took to make it? How long did it take to make that sandwich? Etc. I might ask someone How they did something and not be bothered if they didn't want to discuss it |
#14
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How long does it take?
"Bob Becker" wrote in message ... Personally, I wouldn't feel obligated to justify anything. It's art. There's talent involved. Lucky you. Bjarte |
#15
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How long does it take?
I think Fred Styler - the lathe-meister has the answer in his poem:
How Long Does It Take To Turn One of Those? Do you mean… not plant the tree, but find the wood, just 'see' the piece, (as if I could)? to find a highly figured burl, a crotch, an eye, or pearly curl? And once I spy it, perhaps buy it, inventory, store, and dry it? Then saw or cut it, possibly I kiln it' glue, imbue with fill, or drill it? You mean, that once I'm satisfied it's stopped the warps, checks, cracks, once dried? And mounted on the lathe, to turn it, (which takes much practice, just to learn it; and then employ a gouge, or two, or use a skew, which I don't eschew, to mold it, shape it (what's your pleasure?) by all means, I'm sure to measure, then sand it smooth, please wear your mitts, from coarse to fine, 10,000 grits, then braze, or burnish, paint, or polish, (the goal: enhance, and don't demolish)? Is that your question, start to end, how long's that path, its way to wend? Or do you merely want to know how long it turned? Ten minutes, or so. John A. Styer, The Lathe-meister On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:59:34 GMT, "Darrell Feltmate" wrote: Now there is a question I get a lot at wood shows. "How long does it take to turn a bowl like that?" So what kind of an answer do you give? A couple of hours? Three or four? I turn rough and let dry so some may take a couple of months and some a couple of years until I get around to finish turning. Have they taken months, years, or 2-3 hours? I roughed out three salad bowls from spalted birch today. Each blank was brought inside and roughed to shape with a chain saw. All the extra pieces were picked up and tossed in a kindling box. A screw chuck was mounted. The piece was mounted on the lathe. After turning each piece was coated with anchorseal. Shavings were cleaned up and bagged for the compost pile.Tools were sharpened frequently and at one point I remade the stop blocks for the sharpening jig because the wheel was worn and the angles were off. So how did it take to rough the bowls? 45 minute each? An hour each? What do you enlightened folks say? |
#16
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How long does it take?
"Lobby Dosser" wrote in message news:eknyf.907$MG1.668@trnddc05... "Leo Lichtman" wrote: "Lobby Dosser" wrote: How old was the tree? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Ha-ha. That question is valid only if you were the one who planted it. Seriously, though, try to put yourself in the customer's place. It's a valid question, stemming from interest and curiosity, probably, rather than haggling strategy. A reasonable answer would be, "It varies a lot, depending on the bowl, and a lot of factors--could go from half a day to a week, sometimes." It's also an Odd question and, it seems to me, somewhat rude. Say you were buying a hand knit scarf, would you ask how long it took to make it? How long did it take to make that sandwich? Etc. I might ask someone How they did something and not be bothered if they didn't want to discuss it Honor the customer. Give a straight answer. I generally give a close estimate, followed by "but I have been doing them for twenty years." Give them credit for something, after all, they're looking at stuff in your booth, aren't they? Must have good taste.... |
#17
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How long does it take?
"Darrell Feltmate" wrote in message
news:aveyf.82154$AP5.10406@edtnps84... Now there is a question I get a lot at wood shows. "How long does it take to turn a bowl like that?" So what kind of an answer do you give? A couple of hours? Three or four? I turn rough and let dry so some may take a couple of months and some a couple of years until I get around to finish turning. Have they taken months, years, or 2-3 hours? I roughed out three salad bowls from spalted birch today. Each blank was brought inside and roughed to shape with a chain saw. All the extra pieces were picked up and tossed in a kindling box. A screw chuck was mounted. The piece was mounted on the lathe. After turning each piece was coated with anchorseal. Shavings were cleaned up and bagged for the compost pile.Tools were sharpened frequently and at one point I remade the stop blocks for the sharpening jig because the wheel was worn and the angles were off. So how did it take to rough the bowls? 45 minute each? An hour each? I'd say just tell them what your gut feeling is and don't bother analyzing the whole thing. They're either looking for a measure of how much to be impressed, or wondering if they can compete with you. Then let them go back and try it themselves if they're a woodturner. Next time they'll be back knowing how long it took THEM to try. Whenever I ask that question I already know I'd starve if I had to make a living at it. - Owen - |
#18
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How long does it take?
Darrell Feltmate wrote:
Now there is a question I get a lot at wood shows. "How long does it take to turn a bowl like that?" So what kind of an answer do you give? To some extent it depends on who is asking. Some people I just want to go away and leave me alone, so a glib answer like x hours will suffice, where x = price / modest hourly rate. It may not be accurate, but then it's a pretty lame question. I wonder how many people walk into a car dealership and ask the same question? One could of course counter by asking why they want to know. However, it is not always easy to judge a persons motive, desire to make a purchase, or their credit card limit. More importantly you don't know who they are going to talk to about your work, so a more educational approach is generally called for, along lines that have already been dicussed. But I usually start by telling them how long it took to do the main turning, since most people can see how a block of wood could be shaped to make the object they are looking at. Then I tell them that that is but a small part of the story, and ask if they have a few minutes for me to explain the whole process in more detail. That gives them an opportunity to bail out if they aren't really interested. Otherwise I start with where the wood comes from, how it is cut up, dried (if appropriate), turned (ie outside, inside and bottom of a bowl), sanded, embellised, finished and made ready to sell. All the time I try to concentrate on the benefits they gain from me lavishing so much time and attention on my work, like why it is important to get nice clean finishing cuts and spending time properly sanding the work. If they really push and want to know how many hours go into making a something like a salad bowl, I usually reply with a guesstimate and say that I honestly don't know, and that is pretty much the truth. -- Derek Andrews, woodturner http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com http://chipshop.blogspot.com - a blog for my customers http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com/TheToolrest/ - a blog for woodturners |
#19
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How long does it take?
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:59:34 GMT, "Darrell Feltmate"
wrote: Now there is a question I get a lot at wood shows. "How long does it take to turn a bowl like that?" So what kind of an answer do you give? A couple of hours? Three or four? I turn rough and let dry so some may take a couple of months and some a couple of years until I get around to finish turning. Have they taken months, years, or 2-3 hours? I roughed out three salad bowls from spalted birch today. Each blank was brought inside and roughed to shape with a chain saw. All the extra pieces were picked up and tossed in a kindling box. A screw chuck was mounted. The piece was mounted on the lathe. After turning each piece was coated with anchorseal. Shavings were cleaned up and bagged for the compost pile.Tools were sharpened frequently and at one point I remade the stop blocks for the sharpening jig because the wheel was worn and the angles were off. So how did it take to rough the bowls? 45 minute each? An hour each? What do you enlightened folks say? I did a fairly large (for my 14" lathe) ash bowl a few weeks ago for my wife... as I was buffing it, I was kind of adding up the time spent on cutting the blank, rough turning it, final turning, etc... I was REALLY glad that I wasn't making this one to sell, because I hit about 5 or 6 hours BEFORE I added the sanding, oiling and buffing time, which was at least 2 more hours... I'd say that the "average" bowl has to take me about 3 or 4 hours from start to finish, and I think that I work fairly fast... (at least a lot faster than I did a few years ago) mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
#21
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How long does it take?
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 08:02:18 GMT, Lobby Dosser
wrote: "Leo Lichtman" wrote: "Lobby Dosser" wrote: How old was the tree? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Ha-ha. That question is valid only if you were the one who planted it. Seriously, though, try to put yourself in the customer's place. It's a valid question, stemming from interest and curiosity, probably, rather than haggling strategy. A reasonable answer would be, "It varies a lot, depending on the bowl, and a lot of factors--could go from half a day to a week, sometimes." It's also an Odd question and, it seems to me, somewhat rude. Say you were buying a hand knit scarf, would you ask how long it took to make it? How long did it take to make that sandwich? Etc. I might ask someone How they did something and not be bothered if they didn't want to discuss it I actually did ask just that question last week! We were in Baja and went to the local swap meet and there was a lady there selling hats woven out of plastic walmart bags.... She seemed to sell a few in the 20 minutes that we talked to her, at $25 each... Maybe it's because I'm hoping to make a little money down there selling wood stuff, but one of the first things that popped out was something like "wow, those are really different, how long does it take you to make one?" She didn't react as if I was being rude, so I hope I wasn't... she said something like "4 hours to a week, depending on how much I feel like making them"... mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
#22
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How long does it take?
I start by telling them that I core all of my bowls. A 4 bowl set from
a 14 by 6 inch blank takes about an hour and a quarter from the time I get it on the lathe, to ready to sand time. By coring the bowls, I save a lot of time, not so much on the first bowl, but on the cores because 80% of the shaping is already done. A 7 by 2 inch personal sized bowl used to take me 45 minutes plus, but I have turned a lot of bowls since then, and have gotten a lot faster, and will get faster yet, if for no other reason, it isbecause my tecnique is getting better, and I will be doing less sanding. The sanding and finishing seems to take as much time as turning the bowls. Some time in the future, I will have a photo album that will show the process (from tree to bowl), to go along with my portfolio. Also, I want to get a swatch book of all of the different woods that I have worked with so all of the woodworkers who come into my booth, can test their knowlege. After all, at least half of the people who come into my booth are other woodworkers. Some are professional, most are "I do some woodworking, but nothing like this" and "I am just starting". Another question that I get asked a lot is what kind on wood do you turn, and what is your favorite kind of wood to turn. My usual answer is 'firewood'. Most people get this one right away. robo hippy |
#23
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How long does it take?
Nicely Printed, Framed and Credited, this is a good addition to any Craft
Stall, Brings a smile to everyone who reads it but not necessarily a sale. RVS http://www.laymar-crafts.co.uk "Paul Loseby" wrote in message ... I think Fred Styler - the lathe-meister has the answer in his poem: How Long Does It Take To Turn One of Those? Do you mean. not plant the tree, but find the wood, just 'see' the piece, (as if I could)? to find a highly figured burl, a crotch, an eye, or pearly curl? And once I spy it, perhaps buy it, inventory, store, and dry it? Then saw or cut it, possibly I kiln it' glue, imbue with fill, or drill it? You mean, that once I'm satisfied it's stopped the warps, checks, cracks, once dried? And mounted on the lathe, to turn it, (which takes much practice, just to learn it; and then employ a gouge, or two, or use a skew, which I don't eschew, to mold it, shape it (what's your pleasure?) by all means, I'm sure to measure, then sand it smooth, please wear your mitts, from coarse to fine, 10,000 grits, then braze, or burnish, paint, or polish, (the goal: enhance, and don't demolish)? Is that your question, start to end, how long's that path, its way to wend? Or do you merely want to know how long it turned? Ten minutes, or so. John A. Styer, The Lathe-meister On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:59:34 GMT, "Darrell Feltmate" wrote: Now there is a question I get a lot at wood shows. "How long does it take to turn a bowl like that?" So what kind of an answer do you give? A couple of hours? Three or four? I turn rough and let dry so some may take a couple of months and some a couple of years until I get around to finish turning. Have they taken months, years, or 2-3 hours? I roughed out three salad bowls from spalted birch today. Each blank was brought inside and roughed to shape with a chain saw. All the extra pieces were picked up and tossed in a kindling box. A screw chuck was mounted. The piece was mounted on the lathe. After turning each piece was coated with anchorseal. Shavings were cleaned up and bagged for the compost pile.Tools were sharpened frequently and at one point I remade the stop blocks for the sharpening jig because the wheel was worn and the angles were off. So how did it take to rough the bowls? 45 minute each? An hour each? What do you enlightened folks say? |
#24
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How long does it take?
On 15 Jan 2006 09:43:17 -0800, "robo hippy" wrote:
snip Another question that I get asked a lot is what kind on wood do you turn, and what is your favorite kind of wood to turn. My usual answer is 'firewood'. Most people get this one right away. robo hippy Another response could be "usually the kind from trees" (because it's more polite than "Here's your sign" ) mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
#25
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How long does it take?
A poster illustrating the process as you've described it would
probably go a long way toward preventing questions, and might make people more appreciative of the value of your pieces. Darrell Feltmate wrote: Now there is a question I get a lot at wood shows. "How long does it take to turn a bowl like that?" So what kind of an answer do you give? A couple of hours? Three or four? I turn rough and let dry so some may take a couple of months and some a couple of years until I get around to finish turning. Have they taken months, years, or 2-3 hours? I roughed out three salad bowls from spalted birch today. Each blank was brought inside and roughed to shape with a chain saw. All the extra pieces were picked up and tossed in a kindling box. A screw chuck was mounted. The piece was mounted on the lathe. After turning each piece was coated with anchorseal. Shavings were cleaned up and bagged for the compost pile.Tools were sharpened frequently and at one point I remade the stop blocks for the sharpening jig because the wheel was worn and the angles were off. So how did it take to rough the bowls? 45 minute each? An hour each? What do you enlightened folks say? |
#26
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How long does it take?
Darrell Feltmate wrote: Now there is a question I get a lot at wood shows. "How long does it take to turn a bowl like that?" So what kind of an answer do you give? A couple of hours? Three or four? I turn rough and let dry so some may take a couple of months and some a couple of years until I get around to finish turning. Have they taken months, years, or 2-3 hours? I'm not a turner, but isn't the price you set roughly equivalent to your effort in making the product? So if the bowl is $200, and you think you're worth $40/hour... I would say "It took me 5 hours to make, but 20 years to learn how to make it". |
#27
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How long does it take?
Good question, Darrell. I have very few customers so I'm not among the
enlightened, atho my giftees almost always ask that question. I take it as a compliment implying that such a nice object must have taken me much time to make. Actually they are surprised at the little time it took to turn and finish. (ok y'all, no snide remarks that it shows) Most customers could make the same arguments re their endeavors that we turners use re our learning period and cost of tools, supplies etc. One or two of us may have asked questions about other's vocations/hobbies that they considered dumb or to be laughed at. I believe people want to know about the time taken to turn and finish an object. They don't feel obligated to pay for our education and learning period, nor do we for theirs. Their assessment of our skill and artistry and of the piece itself, probably has more to do with their education and enlightenment than ours. Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
#28
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How long does it take?
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#29
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How long does it take?
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:59:34 +0000, Darrell Feltmate wrote:
Now there is a question I get a lot at wood shows. "How long does it take to turn a bowl like that?" So what kind of an answer do you give? Darrell, I start my answer by noting that the bowl still had bark on it when I met it. That I cut the log into bowl blanks in the woods and lugged them out to my truck where I began the drying process by coating the ends with a special wax emulsion. I then explain that there is a series of mounting, turning, drying, turning and finishing that can span several months to a year. All told, there is about a full days work involved in each bowl. But aint it a beaut? Bill |
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