This is something I've wanted to try, seems like it'd be a real
challenge, just wondering if I could do it small enough for a bottle
stopper top. I've seen ornaments that are really cool done this way,
just nothing as small as a stopper.

Any opinions, suggestions, links?

Thanks,
Ruth
www.torne-lignum.com

Ruth

Long time no see.

I have not tried it but is should be easy to do. A bottle stopper is not
much smaller than most ornaments. What would be real fun is to put a small
spindle inside of the stopper.

Henry

wrote in message
oups.com...
This is something I've wanted to try, seems like it'd be a real
challenge, just wondering if I could do it small enough for a bottle
stopper top. I've seen ornaments that are really cool done this way,
just nothing as small as a stopper.

Any opinions, suggestions, links?

Thanks,
Ruth
www.torne-lignum.com

This is something I've wanted to try, seems like it'd be a real
challenge, just wondering if I could do it small enough for a bottle
stopper top. I've seen ornaments that are really cool done this way,
just nothing as small as a stopper.

Ruth,

I don't see any reason why this shouldn't work. The stopper might be
somewhat fragile. I'd suggest that you make a couple I/O turnings to get
a feel for the mechanics of what is happening. Last Christmas I made I/O
tree ornaments similar to Bob Rosand's except that I used an I/O ball
instead of a hollow ball. There is a picture on Saw Mill Creek.

Hope this helps,

Harry

Harry Pye wrote:
..... Last Christmas I made I/O
tree ornaments similar to Bob Rosand's except that I used an I/O ball
instead of a hollow ball. There is a picture on Saw Mill Creek.


Harry,
I went to Saw Mill Creek but didn't know where to go to see your
picture.
That looks like a nice forum, never been there before.

Thanks,
Ruth
www.torne-lignum.com

On 25 Jun 2005 10:36:19 -0700, wrote:



Harry Pye wrote:
..... Last Christmas I made I/O
tree ornaments similar to Bob Rosand's except that I used an I/O ball
instead of a hollow ball. There is a picture on Saw Mill Creek.


Harry,
I went to Saw Mill Creek but didn't know where to go to see your
picture.
That looks like a nice forum, never been there before.

Thanks,
Ruth
www.torne-lignum.com

Ruth...
I visited your web site... Amazing!
your work is wonderful and your attitude is even better..



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

wrote:
This is something I've wanted to try, seems like it'd be a real
challenge, just wondering if I could do it small enough for a bottle
stopper top. I've seen ornaments that are really cool done this way,
just nothing as small as a stopper.

Any opinions, suggestions, links?

Hi, Ruth,
I've not tried an inside/out stopper yet, but here's how I would do it:
After the inside has been turned and the 4 squares are glued permanently
together, I'd mount the piece in a scroll chuck with the bottom facing
the tailstock. If you sand the inside corners off a bit before gluing
(only at the bottom), there will be a little square hole to poke the
tailstock into for centering the piece before tightening the chuck jaws.
This will also make a good "pilot hole" for drilling the 3/8" hole for
the dowel(I'm still using florentine corks) or the new Niles SS stopper,
if we are fortunate enough to have acquired any of those

After that, it's up to you if you want to turn the outside with the top
held in the chuck, or reverse mount it on a spindle in the hole. But at
least the hole is drilled on center, and you can clean up the bottom
before reverse mounting.

Take a peek at one of my photo albums with inside/out ornaments, and a
link to a pdf tutorial on making them if that helps:
http://www.crwoodturner.com/gallery/grunke_ornaments

Ken Grunke
http://www.token.crwoodturner.com/

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Thank you, Mac, I appreciate your kind words.
I'm very curious about how you can tell my attitude from my website?
I like my attitude, I get along very well with me. : )

Ruth
www.torne-lignum.com

Ken,
The first one in the second row, walnut and box elder, is what I had
in mind. Picture that one upside down, the smaller diameter ball would
be where the 3/8" tenon fit in so it wouldn't be hollowed, then the top
just like yours. Any advice on knowing how far to turn during the
first process so I don't have the SS Niles Stopper tenon poking
through? Now, what else do you think I'd be using!?! : )

I've never even tried inside-out turning yet, so it will be a learning
experience.

Thanks,
Ruth
www.torne-lignum.com

Any advice on knowing how far to turn during the
first process so I don't have the SS Niles Stopper tenon poking
through? Now, what else do you think I'd be using!?! : )

Ruth,

If, when turning the inside, you just make the piece round, you will not
see any opening in the middle. The more you cut past this point, the
larger the open inside becomes.

Ideally you should face two adjacent sides of the wood on a jointer to
make sure they are dead flat and square to each other. Then machine the
opposite sides on a thickness planer. This is the ideal situation but
you might get away with cutting them square on a table saw with a good
blade.

And someone mentioned putting a spindle inside the opening. I haven't
tried this but there is no reason it shouldn't work. Turn the inside and
reverse the pieces but don't glue them together. Use double sided tape
or clamps but fasten them in what will be their final position. Then
drill a hole through the end to accommodate the spindle. Then glue the
whole thing together. Might be fun to try.

Harry

wrote:
Ken,
The first one in the second row, walnut and box elder, is what I had
in mind. Picture that one upside down, the smaller diameter ball would
be where the 3/8" tenon fit in so it wouldn't be hollowed, then the top
just like yours. Any advice on knowing how far to turn during the
first process so I don't have the SS Niles Stopper tenon poking
through?

Ruth,
How long is the 3/8" shaft on your SS stopper? Looks to be about 3/4".
When you're turning the first stage (what will be the inside) end it
about 1 1/4" from the bottom of the piece.
Then when you're drilling the hole (in the second stage) you'll have a
little extra wood below the hollow part to be able to trim down the end
with a skew after drilling the hole to maybe, 1" depth or as far as you
dare without coming through the inside.
BTW, if you looked at my pdf file, I recommended using superglue on one
end so it could be easily pried apart after the first stage turning.
I've since found double-stick tape to be easier and more convenient--the
same stuff used to put up plastic sheeting on the inside of windows. Put
pressure on each joint with a C-clamp for a few seconds and it will hold
very well. I only put about an inch of it on one end, opposite of where
the scroll chuck will be holding the piece. If it's hard to pry apart,
just dab some rubbing alcohol in the joint to dissolve the tape's cement.
Another BTW--if you don't mind me making a design change suggestion on
your SS stopper--how about instead of turning a tenon on the steel,
drill a 3/8" hole through so we could glue our own dowel in, or turn a
short tenon on the stopper body to fit in the SS stopper base's hole.
This would save material for you, and maybe even labor (and cost).
Just my 2 pennies...

Ken Grunke
webmaster, Coulee Region Woodturners of SW Wisconsin
http://www.crwoodturner.com/

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Ken,
I think I'm going to have to actually prep the wood and start turning
to completely understand your directions. They are very clear and I
do understand, but I'm sure a few practice pieces will make it a lot
simplier.

The tenon on the SS Niles stopper on my website is 3/4" but all the
production pieces from now on are going to be 1/2". This week I
should be getting a large order and will try one using your
instuctions.

As to your suggestion about drilling a hole in the stopper base, two
reasons I didn't do this (I did think about it); 1) I have a lot of
potters, glass blowers and plastic composite workers who want these
stopper bases and they prefer a tenon: 2) it's really easier to drill a
hole in the wood turning, reverse chuck on a woodworm (I use pieces of
wood turned to 3/8" like a jam chuck) and glue the same as you would
with a wooden dowel. I found I turned the tops a lot faster; blank
in chuck, finish/shape bottom, drill hole, finish rest of shape, part
off, reverse chuck, sand tiny nub, done.

When you use the dowels, don't you have to drill a hole in the bottom
of the wood? I never used the dowels so I really don't know. As to
saving material and labor, it's all done in an automated machine so
machining costs would probably be the same. It's a small 2 brothers
operation, local, nice guys, I'm not making a lot of profit, we're sort
of sharing the profit, they worked their price down to keep me from
going to Taiwan or China, plus they made sure the steel and rubber
rings were FDA approved for food contact......not that all this has
anything to do with our conversation!
: )

Thanks,
Ruth
www.torne-lignum.com

Ruth,

Somewhere I once saw a stopper kit that had the stopper with a female thread
and used a threaded rod to attach to the wood. I thought this was a good idea
because it allowed the stopper to be removed from the wood in order to be
cleaned, without risking water damage to the wood.

You could do something similar by threading the shaft of the tenon which would
allow the glue to have a surface to hold better, if the user wanted to just glue it in
place. But they could also use a threaded insert in the wood if they wanted to be
able to remove the stopper from the wood.

This would probably increase the machining cost :-(

In any case, I would *think* that a textured surface on the tenon would make it
a bit more glueable in any medium. (But what do I know? :-)

Matt Heffron

wrote in message
oups.com...
Ken,
....
As to your suggestion about drilling a hole in the stopper base, two
reasons I didn't do this (I did think about it); 1) I have a lot of
potters, glass blowers and plastic composite workers who want these
stopper bases and they prefer a tenon: 2) it's really easier to drill a
hole in the wood turning, reverse chuck on a woodworm (I use pieces of
wood turned to 3/8" like a jam chuck) and glue the same as you would
with a wooden dowel. I found I turned the tops a lot faster; blank
in chuck, finish/shape bottom, drill hole, finish rest of shape, part
off, reverse chuck, sand tiny nub, done.

....
Thanks,
Ruth
www.torne-lignum.com

Matt,

A threaded tenon does have it's good points, all of which you
mentioned. I started working on these about 8 months ago, had a test
run done, had 4 "test" turners use them, got feedback on turning/gluing
and customer feedback. We tried to loosen the hold before selling by
putting the stopper in and out, not gently and a couple times a day for
a week or two, none came apart.

Yes, it would be easier cleaning with a removable screw top but the 3
o-rings make it quite easy to clean; easier than the rubber
gasket/stopper on the chrome where you need a toothbrush to get in the
grooves. Also how much cleaning do bottle stoppers need, they won't go
in the dishwasher (except by the person who puts wooden bowls in
there!).

I don't drink wine so I did a whole lot of research, asking winery
owners (sent them a sample stopper) and a turner on another forum who
writes reviews for a winery magazine. They didn't agree on
everything, but they all liked the stainless (300 series) and FDA app'd
rubber rings snugger fit over the chrome stopper. (something about
good for bouquet and no air?)

I did all this research because I had presented my design to 2 of the
big guys who import the chrome stoppers, looking to just sell the
design rights. Both of them said they were doing just fine with the
chrome and didn't feel anyone would see an advantage in mine over the
chrome. So I bit the bullet, did the copyright and design patent thing
and am selling them myself...........UNTIL one of the big guys sees how
well they're being received by stopper turners and they do a knock-off,
cutting me out.

"And Now You Know the Rest of the Story".... Paul Harvey (remember
him!) : )

Ruth
www.torne-lignum.com

On 26 Jun 2005 14:17:33 -0700, wrote:

Thank you, Mac, I appreciate your kind words.
I'm very curious about how you can tell my attitude from my website?
I like my attitude, I get along very well with me. : )

Ruth
www.torne-lignum.com

I think it's a combination of the way your shop is designed and built.. a slight
female touch to what looks like a very efficient shop, and the variety of your
work.. you're not in a bowl rut or whatever, you seem to work on what interests
you and your gallery is sorta eclectic..
I might also be influenced by your site.. as a web designer, I pick up on the
"personality" of a site and yours feels "comfortable, like your comfortable with
yourself and your work??



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

wrote:
Matt,

A threaded tenon does have it's good points, all of which you
mentioned. I started working on these about 8 months ago, had a test
run done, had 4 "test" turners use them, got feedback on turning/gluing
and customer feedback. We tried to loosen the hold before selling by
putting the stopper in and out, not gently and a couple times a day for
a week or two, none came apart.

Yes, it would be easier cleaning with a removable screw top but the 3
o-rings make it quite easy to clean; easier than the rubber
gasket/stopper on the chrome where you need a toothbrush to get in the
grooves. Also how much cleaning do bottle stoppers need, they won't go
in the dishwasher (except by the person who puts wooden bowls in
there!).

I don't drink wine so I did a whole lot of research, asking winery
owners (sent them a sample stopper) and a turner on another forum who
writes reviews for a winery magazine. They didn't agree on
everything, but they all liked the stainless (300 series) and FDA app'd
rubber rings snugger fit over the chrome stopper. (something about
good for bouquet and no air?)

I did all this research because I had presented my design to 2 of the
big guys who import the chrome stoppers, looking to just sell the
design rights. Both of them said they were doing just fine with the
chrome and didn't feel anyone would see an advantage in mine over the
chrome. So I bit the bullet, did the copyright and design patent thing
and am selling them myself...........UNTIL one of the big guys sees how
well they're being received by stopper turners and they do a knock-off,
cutting me out.

"And Now You Know the Rest of the Story".... Paul Harvey (remember
him!) : )
Good Day And it is good to see you back Ruth.
Don

Ruth
www.torne-lignum.com

Ruth

I just put a picture out on ABPW of a first attempt at an insideout bottle
stopper with an internal spindle. With a little more work i think i could
do a real nice stopper.

Process. Start with 2 square pieces of wood. 1 about 1/4" and 1 3/4" to 1".
chuck up the smaller piece and turn your spindle. Make sure and leave 2
sets of flats on the spindle. This is the top and bottom of the inside out
turning.

Chuck up the larger piece and turn out the inside, or what will become the
inside of the stopper. The two ends of the turning must match the flats on
the spindle. Set up a 45 degree bit in the router and place router in a
router table. You need to cut the four corners off of the larger piece to
match the flats on the spindle. Now using a band saw or other fine tooth
saw, cut the larger piece of wood into fourths. Turn the pieces around and
glue them togeather with the spindle on the inside of the outer piece. All
that is left is to chuck, turn and sand.

By the way i enjoyed your article in Woodturning Design.

Henry Doolittle


wrote in message
oups.com...
This is something I've wanted to try, seems like it'd be a real
challenge, just wondering if I could do it small enough for a bottle
stopper top. I've seen ornaments that are really cool done this way,
just nothing as small as a stopper.

Any opinions, suggestions, links?

Thanks,
Ruth
www.torne-lignum.com

Thank you, Don. : )

Henry,
Thanks and how do I access ABPW?
I can't get there from here!

Ruth

In article . com,
wrote:

Thanks and how do I access ABPW?
I can't get there from here!

Ruth, Ruth, Ruth, you gotta look into that newsgroup availability
through your ISP and that newsreader program - Forte Agent which I was
correctly reminded many Windows users prefer.

Perhaps Henry has already contacted you privately but if not I saved a
copy of his pic off ABPW (alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking - a picture
newsgroup) and will email it to you if you drop me an email note.

Henry - you need a tripod!

--
Owen Lowe

Northwest Woodturners,
Cascade Woodturners,
Pacific Northwest Woodturning Guild
___
Safety Tip'o'th'week: Never grind aluminum and steel or iron on the same
machine or workstation - Thermite.
http://www.hanford.gov/lessons/sitell/ll01/2001-36.htm

Owen, you're going to really think I'm dumb but I can't find your
email. How about you send me a note and I'll put you in my address
book?

Sorry.
Ruth
www.torne-lignum.com

In article .com,
wrote:

Owen, you're going to really think I'm dumb but I can't find your
email. How about you send me a note and I'll put you in my address
book?

I didn't send you one yet - I was thinking that you could email me first
if you hadn't heard from Henry about sending it directly to you. OK I'm
attaching it to this message but not to this group . It's called,
"insideout.jpg".

--
Owen Lowe

Northwest Woodturners,
Cascade Woodturners,
Pacific Northwest Woodturning Guild
___
Safety Tip'o'th'week: Never grind aluminum and steel or iron on the same
machine or workstation - Thermite.
http://www.hanford.gov/lessons/sitell/ll01/2001-36.htm

Ruth

I also sent a copy of the picture to your Email address. Did you get it.

Henry

wrote in message
oups.com...
Owen, you're going to really think I'm dumb but I can't find your
email. How about you send me a note and I'll put you in my address
book?

Sorry.
Ruth
www.torne-lignum.com

Henry,
Yes, I did get your email but couldn't open your picture. However,
Owen sent it and I did get his opened.

Yes, it was a little blurry but I got the general idea of what you
turned. It's really close to what I've been thinking about trying.
You do nice work.

Thank You.

Ruth
www.torne-lignum.com

Hi Ruth

Ruth, I have a inside out ornament document that shows how to make a
inside out with a inside ornament again, if you are interested send your
E-mail address and I will mail it to you.


Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

wrote:

This is something I've wanted to try, seems like it'd be a real
challenge, just wondering if I could do it small enough for a bottle
stopper top. I've seen ornaments that are really cool done this way,
just nothing as small as a stopper.

Any opinions, suggestions, links?

Thanks,
Ruth
www.torne-lignum.com