Hi all,

We need a new cooker, as the old electric one is mucky and half
broken. We'd like to go dual-fuel, i.e. a gas hob and electric oven.
I've already fitted some kitchen units - but not the worktop yet - and
I can't decide whether to go with a separate hob and oven or a
free-standing 'slot-in' cooker.

Does anyone have any opinions? It seems that buying a dual-fuel
slot-in can be cheaper than the two separate bits - for example this
one:
http://www.comet.co.uk/comet/html/cache/279_211788.html
has a double oven as well.

Also, anyone have any manufacturer recommendations in the
cheap-but-not-so-cheap price range? I've had new cookers before in
rented houses where the printed legends rubbed off after three
applications of JIF.....

C

Does anyone have any opinions? It seems that buying a dual-fuel
slot-in can be cheaper than the two separate bits - for example this
one:

Personally I would go for all-gas. Electric fan ovens are overrated IMO. Gas
has the advantage of:

(a) much more rapid warmup, which is good for just bunging frozen stuff in
the oven without all that 15 minutes warm up you get with 2.2kW electric fan
ovens.

(b) temperature variation from top to bottom. This is useful when cooking
items that require different heat in the same oven. Set to the highest
temperature required and put item on top shelf. Lower shelves then are
useful for items requiring lower heat. Less of an issue with a double oven,
but still more energy efficient to use just one oven when possible.

(c) Gas grills are actually useful for something other than making your
house look like you've been burning tyres, which is the affect of cooking
any meat on an electric grill. Any fat gets treated as free fuel, rather
than a source of smoke and mess.

I can't decide whether to go with a separate hob and oven or a
free-standing 'slot-in' cooker.

That's a pure personal preference.

BTW, the link you posted is exactly the same as my mother's cooker (except
for the colour, which is white). She's had no problems with it to my
knowledge. It's a dream compared to her old horrible Halogen/Ceramic
monstrosity.

Christian.

Charlie wrote:

We need a new cooker, as the old electric one is mucky and half
broken. We'd like to go dual-fuel, i.e. a gas hob and electric oven.
I've already fitted some kitchen units - but not the worktop yet - and
I can't decide whether to go with a separate hob and oven or a
free-standing 'slot-in' cooker.

Does anyone have any opinions? It seems that buying a dual-fuel
slot-in can be cheaper than the two separate bits - for example this
one:
http://www.comet.co.uk/comet/html/cache/279_211788.html
has a double oven as well.

I'm sure it will be cheaper buying the slot-in job; also presumably you
haven't included the ridiculous cost of a base unit in which to fit the
oven, and maybe an extra metre of worktop?

Most of this is simply about fashion - the vogue is for built-in
appliances (fridge/feezer/dishwasher/oven etc), and you pay a premium
for that. Any estate agent will tell you that buyers want built-in
stuff, and a slot-in is likely to affect sellability of your house. If
that's not an issue for you, and you don't inherently mind a slot-in
oven, then I should go for that!

David

On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 17:35:09 -0000, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

Personally I would go for all-gas.

Me too, but they are harder to find cos the default option seems to be
gas hob and electric oven for some unknown reason

Get a base unit with separate oven and grill spaces in it. If you
don't you will wish you had done so

I can't decide whether to go with a separate hob and oven or a
free-standing 'slot-in' cooker.

Free standing are great for collecting gunge down the side

The base and hob pair I bought for my last house was excellent.
Trouble is I can't remember the brand so I'm hoping someone will
mention it so I can go 'me too' It was reasonably priced, made in
England I think and a had good quality enamel hob with the knobs at
the front. Why do they generally put the knobs at the side so you risk
igniting your arm to get to them?

Anna

~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Lime plaster repairs
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642

In article , Lobster wrote:
I'm sure it will be cheaper buying the slot-in job; also
presumably you haven't included the ridiculous cost of a base
unit in which to fit the oven,

£28 for B&Q units. But when I came to install my Belling build-under
oven (£399 with gas hob from Currys - genuinely good value for once)
it came with two lengths of angle which could be screwed to the
adjacent unit sides thus making the oven housing unnecessary (I had
of course fitted it by then!). Personally I think the built-in
arrangement is much the better.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

Anna Kettle wrote:

The base and hob pair I bought for my last house was excellent.
Trouble is I can't remember the brand so I'm hoping someone will
mention it so I can go 'me too' It was reasonably priced, made in
England I think and a had good quality enamel hob with the knobs at
the front. Why do they generally put the knobs at the side so you risk
igniting your arm to get to them?

One of my pet peeves! And the ones that have a cluster of knobs (often
five) at the centre top.

They must be designed by non-cooks - or by folk who only use tiny pots and
pans.

Sheila

In article ,
"Christian McArdle" writes:
Does anyone have any opinions? It seems that buying a dual-fuel
slot-in can be cheaper than the two separate bits - for example this
one:

Personally I would go for all-gas. Electric fan ovens are overrated IMO. Gas
has the advantage of:

(a) much more rapid warmup, which is good for just bunging frozen stuff in
the oven without all that 15 minutes warm up you get with 2.2kW electric fan
ovens.

My experience is complete opposite. I use gas and electric ovens,
and gas takes very much longer to heat up. Just timed my electric
oven: 170C in 4 minutes, 190C in 5, 210C in 6, 225C in 7, 230C (max)
in 7.5 minutes. Gas oven is in a different house which I can't check
now, but it's at least twice as long, and probably 3 times as long
to get to max temperature.

A gas oven leaks loads more heat into the room -- perhaps useful in
winter, but not in summer.

(b) temperature variation from top to bottom. This is useful when cooking
items that require different heat in the same oven. Set to the highest
temperature required and put item on top shelf. Lower shelves then are
useful for items requiring lower heat. Less of an issue with a double oven,
but still more energy efficient to use just one oven when possible.

You get the same in an electric oven which can operate with the fan
turned off (but beware not all can -- some have the element outside
the oven cavity and require the fan to pass the heat into the oven).

(c) Gas grills are actually useful for something other than making your
house look like you've been burning tyres, which is the affect of cooking
any meat on an electric grill. Any fat gets treated as free fuel, rather
than a source of smoke and mess.

This is worse if the grill element is in the oven cavity and gets
splashed with fat when using the oven -- this then burns off when
you next use the grill.

--
Andrew Gabriel

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
Does anyone have any opinions? It seems that buying a dual-fuel
slot-in can be cheaper than the two separate bits - for example this
one:

Personally I would go for all-gas. Electric fan ovens are overrated IMO.

I disagree - after sixty odd years of using gas ovens. We bought a dual fuel
cooker three years ago and I love it. Mine has a fan which ensures even
heating/cooking throughout. No hot spots, no cool parts.

Gas
has the advantage of:

(a) much more rapid warmup, which is good for just bunging frozen stuff in
the oven without all that 15 minutes warm up you get with 2.2kW electric
fan
ovens.

It doesn't take 15 minutes - but I don't bung food anywhere and wouldn't
dream of putting frozen food in any oven. It's quite easy to thaw it first.


(b) temperature variation from top to bottom. This is useful when cooking
items that require different heat in the same oven. Set to the highest
temperature required and put item on top shelf. Lower shelves then are
useful for items requiring lower heat.

That's the classic sales pitch for gas ovens. But it's not at all useful if
you don't want different temperatures - which is most of the time for many
of us. Having to load the oven with three shelves of bread tins and having
to keep shifting them around in the gas oven was a real pain. Being able to
load once and take them all out at the same time - using the efficient timer
if necessary - is a joy. I wish I'd succumbed to an electric oven before ...
what a waste of my culinary life :-(

Tonight I cooked pork steaks, sweet potatoes, red cabbage, coriander
parsnips all in the same oven - my wonderful electric one. Everything was
cooked to perfection.

(c) Gas grills are actually useful for something other than making your
house look like you've been burning tyres, which is the affect of cooking
any meat on an electric grill.

Oh what a nonsense! Perhaps you should learn to cook. There are different
levels of height and heat in my electric grill.

Any fat gets treated as free fuel, rather
than a source of smoke and mess.

You need more experience.

I can't decide whether to go with a separate hob and oven or a
free-standing 'slot-in' cooker.

That's a pure personal preference.

I agree.

BTW, the link you posted is exactly the same as my mother's cooker (except
for the colour, which is white). She's had no problems with it to my
knowledge. It's a dream compared to her old horrible Halogen/Ceramic
monstrosity.

I wouldn't choose an electric hob under any conditions. If I didn't have
mains gas I'd use butane or charcoal.

But it's a personal choice.

Mary

Christian.

"S Viemeister" wrote in message
...
Anna Kettle wrote:

The base and hob pair I bought for my last house was excellent.
Trouble is I can't remember the brand so I'm hoping someone will
mention it so I can go 'me too' It was reasonably priced, made in
England I think and a had good quality enamel hob with the knobs at
the front. Why do they generally put the knobs at the side so you risk
igniting your arm to get to them?

One of my pet peeves! And the ones that have a cluster of knobs (often
five) at the centre top.

Mine has all controls at the front, I wouldn't use anything else. And I have
four different sizes of hobs which has increased my control no end.

They must be designed by non-cooks - or by folk who only use tiny pots and
pans.

I agree.

Mary

Sheila

"Lobster" wrote in message
...

Any estate agent will tell you that buyers want built-in stuff,

I don't. I want to be able to roll out the cooker to clean behind it. And I
want to be able to clean the sides of the cooker.

Mary

"Charlie" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

We need a new cooker, as the old electric one is mucky and half
broken. We'd like to go dual-fuel, i.e. a gas hob and electric oven.
I've already fitted some kitchen units - but not the worktop yet - and
I can't decide whether to go with a separate hob and oven or a
free-standing 'slot-in' cooker.

Does anyone have any opinions? It seems that buying a dual-fuel
slot-in can be cheaper than the two separate bits - for example this
one:
http://www.comet.co.uk/comet/html/cache/279_211788.html
has a double oven as well.
snip

We are dual fuel dual unit (gas hob, electric double oven).

One reason is that the oven is at chest height so it is safe and easy to get
stuff in and out, and easier to look through the glass door to see what is
going on.
I have never liked bending down to an oven under a hob.
You can also have two people doing stuff - one at the oven/grill and the
other at the hob - without invading each others space.

We are very happy with our Creda double oven (fan in the lower oven) and
find it cooks quickly and evenly.
You can also put stuff in when the oven is cold, then use the timings for a
conventional oven, so no need to wait for it to warm up.

Personal preference, but I like electric fan ovens for their even heating
and I like gas hobs for their controlability plus the ability to still use
pans when the base isn't absolutely flat :-)

Looks as though the reasons that Christian doesn't like fan ovens are the
same reasons we like them :-)

Cheers
Dave R

In message , David W.E. Roberts
writes

"Charlie" wrote in message
.. .
Hi all,

We need a new cooker, as the old electric one is mucky and half
broken. We'd like to go dual-fuel, i.e. a gas hob and electric oven.
I've already fitted some kitchen units - but not the worktop yet - and
I can't decide whether to go with a separate hob and oven or a
free-standing 'slot-in' cooker.

Does anyone have any opinions? It seems that buying a dual-fuel
slot-in can be cheaper than the two separate bits - for example this
one:
http://www.comet.co.uk/comet/html/cache/279_211788.html
has a double oven as well.
snip

We are dual fuel dual unit (gas hob, electric double oven).

One reason is that the oven is at chest height so it is safe and easy to get
stuff in and out, and easier to look through the glass door to see what is
going on.
I have never liked bending down to an oven under a hob.

Yep, that is the main reason I prefer separate ovens

Personal preference, but I like electric fan ovens for their even heating
and I like gas hobs for their controlability plus the ability to still use
pans when the base isn't absolutely flat :-)

Yep, I much prefer that set up. On the whole I'm much more likely to
want to cook things at the same temps, rather than different. And if you
like to cook using wok, then electric really isn't so good.

--
Chris French, Leeds

"chris French" wrote in message


One reason is that the oven is at chest height so it is safe and easy to
get
stuff in and out, and easier to look through the glass door to see what is
going on.
I have never liked bending down to an oven under a hob.

Yep, that is the main reason I prefer separate ovens

But you have to have space in your kitchen ... :-(

I've never felt that a low oven is unsafe though, why should it be? I
wouldn't be keen on taking out a very hot casserole at head or chest height.
I agree about seeing into the oven but we don't really *need* to do that,
surely?

Mary

In message , Mary
Fisher writes

"Lobster" wrote in message
...

Any estate agent will tell you that buyers want built-in stuff,

I don't. I want to be able to roll out the cooker to clean behind it. And I
want to be able to clean the sides of the cooker.

But if you have an inset hob and built-in oven there is no behind or
sides to worry about cleaning anyway.

Personally, I prefer either built-in or for a free standing cooker to be
far enough away from worktops cupboards so that it is easy to clean
around it.
--
Chris French, Leeds

Thanks for all the comments. I think we'll probably go for built-in
after all (the comments about buyers liking built-in are pertinent -
also we already have the 'stand' and it will make worktop fitting a
wee bit easier).

Does anyone have any particular likes/dislikes of particular brands?
We're unlikely to be able to afford Neff etc. but won't be going for
extra cheap rubbish.

Charlie

"chris French" wrote in message
I don't. I want to be able to roll out the cooker to clean behind it. And
I
want to be able to clean the sides of the cooker.

But if you have an inset hob and built-in oven there is no behind or sides
to worry about cleaning anyway.

Perhaps I'm a messier cook than you :-)

Can you absolutely guarantee that nothing, ever, will spill down the sides?
Or that fluff and other less acceptable stuff will never accumulate behind
it?

Personally, I prefer either built-in or for a free standing cooker to be
far enough away from worktops cupboards so that it is easy to clean around
it.

Ours is the latter. In fact all our appliances (fridge, freezer, dishwasher,
washing machine) can be rolled out for cleaning round.

Ahem.

They don't move often ... :-(

When they do I'm appalled at what we find ... but I do keep the sides of the
cooker clean.

Mary
--
Chris French, Leeds

In message , Mary
Fisher writes

"chris French" wrote in message
I don't. I want to be able to roll out the cooker to clean behind it. And
I
want to be able to clean the sides of the cooker.

But if you have an inset hob and built-in oven there is no behind or sides
to worry about cleaning anyway.

Perhaps I'm a messier cook than you :-)

Can you absolutely guarantee that nothing, ever, will spill down the sides?

Errr, a inset hob has no sides to get dirty....

Or that fluff and other less acceptable stuff will never accumulate behind
it?


Errr... If it's built in it's just like another cupboard in the kitchen,
do you suggest dismatling the cupboards to clean behind them.....

Personally, I prefer either built-in or for a free standing cooker to be
far enough away from worktops cupboards so that it is easy to clean around
it.

Ours is the latter. In fact all our appliances (fridge, freezer, dishwasher,
washing machine) can be rolled out for cleaning round.

Ahem.

They don't move often ... :-(

When they do I'm appalled at what we find ...

Good reason for not movign them IMO....

--
Chris French, Leeds

In article ,
Charlie writes:
Thanks for all the comments. I think we'll probably go for built-in
after all (the comments about buyers liking built-in are pertinent -
also we already have the 'stand' and it will make worktop fitting a
wee bit easier).

One comment I have heard is to avoid them in rented properties
where appliances seem to break more often anyway, and you really
don't want the extra hassle of trying to fit replacements into the
fitted units.

Does anyone have any particular likes/dislikes of particular brands?
We're unlikely to be able to afford Neff etc. but won't be going for
extra cheap rubbish.

In my family, there's a 5 year old Smeg hob and oven which have
given no trouble (they were bought in France as they were cheaper
there at the time and parts of my family live in France anyway
and come over regularly). There's also a Manor House (Wickes
brand?) oven and hob which have been fine for the 5 years we've
used them, although previous owners had problems with the oven
fan motor burning out a couple of times. All the others around
the family that I can think of are free standing (a giant dual
fuel Smeg, and an older gas-only Cannon with foldaway eye level
grill) and also have given no trouble.

--
Andrew Gabriel

"chris French" wrote in message
...
In message , Mary Fisher
writes

"chris French" wrote in message
I don't. I want to be able to roll out the cooker to clean behind it.
And
I
want to be able to clean the sides of the cooker.

But if you have an inset hob and built-in oven there is no behind or
sides
to worry about cleaning anyway.

Perhaps I'm a messier cook than you :-)

Can you absolutely guarantee that nothing, ever, will spill down the
sides?

Errr, a inset hob has no sides to get dirty....

So where do spillages go?

Or that fluff and other less acceptable stuff will never accumulate behind
it?


Errr... If it's built in it's just like another cupboard in the kitchen,
do you suggest dismatling the cupboards to clean behind them.....

We don't have cupboards. Well, one, which doesn't need to be dismantled,
just emptied, vac'd and re-filled. Spouse built it, its back is the tiled
wall, it's floor is the, um, floor.

Personally, I prefer either built-in or for a free standing cooker to be
far enough away from worktops cupboards so that it is easy to clean
around
it.

Ours is the latter. In fact all our appliances (fridge, freezer,
dishwasher,
washing machine) can be rolled out for cleaning round.

Ahem.

They don't move often ... :-(

When they do I'm appalled at what we find ...

Good reason for not movign them IMO....

Occasionally things are dropped down the back and need to be retrieved,
sometimes plumbing needs attention.

Sh*t happens.

Mary

--
Chris French, Leeds

"Vera" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 11:56:12 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:



Ours is the latter. In fact all our appliances (fridge, freezer,
dishwasher,
washing machine) can be rolled out for cleaning round.

Ahem.

They don't move often ... :-(


Thank goodness - I was starting to worry about you Mary...

Oh, I'm not worth worrying about :-)

Personally I love to cook and the next hob I get will be electric.
Ceramic top. Halogen perhaps or whatever is the latest thing.

I'd prefer charcoal. Cooking, well, food, is one of my greatest passions. We
never, ever eat pre-prepared food except chocolate so I cook and/or bake
almost every day. When we're camping I cook and bake, that's usually
mediaeval food.

Gas hobs and ovens are a bitch to clean

No they're not!

and I have better things to do
with my life. Maybe Ainsley has the time to clean his oven every day,
I prefer to watch TV or play poker.

We don't have a TV and I grew out of poker back in the seventies! I have
much better things to do with my life, like fine food preparation and
enjoying it :-)

er - who's Ainsley?

I hate my gas oven.

I hated my last one. And the one before that and the one before that ... I'm
very happy with the one we have now and I find the slow oven extremely
useful too but I'm still finding new applications for it. I'm also very
pleased with the severally sized gas hobs, I just wish it wasn't black.
Still, nothing's perfect.

Mary

Mary Fisher wrote:
"chris French" wrote in message
...

Can you absolutely guarantee that nothing, ever, will spill down the
sides?

Errr, a inset hob has no sides to get dirty....

So where do spillages go?

The hob will have a lip to catch most of it, but if you really go beserk
and overflow the lip, then spillage goes all over the worktop, and
ultimately (because it's going to sealed to the wall at the back and
sides), all down the front of the units. The hob is sealed to the
worktop - think of it as being an extension to the worktop.

Occasionally things are dropped down the back and need to be retrieved,
sometimes plumbing needs attention.

But again, if the appliance is fully-fitted / built-in, there simply
*isn't* a back for anything to fall down!

David

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:
"chris French" wrote in message
...

Can you absolutely guarantee that nothing, ever, will spill down the
sides?

Errr, a inset hob has no sides to get dirty....

So where do spillages go?

The hob will have a lip to catch most of it, but if you really go beserk
and overflow the lip, then spillage goes all over the worktop, and
ultimately (because it's going to sealed to the wall at the back and
sides), all down the front of the units. The hob is sealed to the
worktop - think of it as being an extension to the worktop.

Oh.

No room on my worktop ...

Occasionally things are dropped down the back and need to be retrieved,
sometimes plumbing needs attention.

But again, if the appliance is fully-fitted / built-in, there simply
*isn't* a back for anything to fall down!

A fully fitted/built in washing machine?

Or dishwasher? Even that vibrates.

Or a fridge or freezer - which NEED space for heat to escape?

Mary

David

But again, if the appliance is fully-fitted / built-in, there simply
*isn't* a back for anything to fall down!

A fully fitted/built in washing machine?

Yes. I've got one of those. And a tumble dryer.

Or dishwasher? Even that vibrates.

Not much at all. Oddly, I've got a fully integrated dishwasher too. Even the
washing machine, which is 1600 spin, hardly vibrates at all. I'm hoping that
the extra expense on the integrated version went into vibration damping, but
suspect it just went to the shareholders. :-(

Or a fridge or freezer - which NEED space for heat to escape?

Yes. They are correctly designed with airflow in mind. They give various
options in terms of vent sizing and positioning. They've thought it all out.

Integrated appliances are all designed differently. My fridge and freezer
are bolted into a specially designed carcass, much like an integrated oven
would be. The laundry and dishwashing appliances are basically freestanding
units that can have full size kitchen doors attached. They can be pulled out
from under the worktop like a freestanding appliance and aren't bolted in
place at all.

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...

Or dishwasher? Even that vibrates.

Not much at all. Oddly, I've got a fully integrated dishwasher too. Even
the
washing machine, which is 1600 spin, hardly vibrates at all. I'm hoping
that
the extra expense on the integrated version went into vibration damping,
but
suspect it just went to the shareholders. :-(

Sounds as though it was expensive ...

Or a fridge or freezer - which NEED space for heat to escape?

Yes. They are correctly designed with airflow in mind. They give various
options in terms of vent sizing and positioning. They've thought it all
out.

Even cleaning the heat exchangers?

Integrated appliances are all designed differently. My fridge and freezer
are bolted into a specially designed carcass, much like an integrated oven
would be. The laundry and dishwashing appliances are basically
freestanding
units that can have full size kitchen doors attached.

What's the point in that?

In fact, what's the point in anything being unmovable? I can think of
problems when they need repair or replacement.

They can be pulled out
from under the worktop like a freestanding appliance and aren't bolted in
place at all.

So they're not built in. Just covered at the front.

I know a large kitchen like that. I had to open many doors to get to what I
wanted. The door manufacturers have done a good job persuading consumers
that their appliances are something to be ashamed about :-)

Mary



Christian.

Sounds as though it was expensive ...

Yes, they are more expensive than non-integrated machines. In compensation,
at least they are usually well specced. Basically, you have to pay extra for
integrated, but are forced to do this to an already good model.

Yes. They are correctly designed with airflow in mind. They give various
options in terms of vent sizing and positioning. They've thought it all
out.

Even cleaning the heat exchangers?

That's not something I've ever needed to do on a fridge/freezer. You could
always undo the bolts and lift it out if you really want to dust the back.

They can be pulled out
from under the worktop like a freestanding appliance and aren't bolted in
place at all.

So they're not built in. Just covered at the front.

Correct.

I know a large kitchen like that. I had to open many doors to get to what
I
wanted. The door manufacturers have done a good job persuading consumers
that their appliances are something to be ashamed about :-)

Once you've accumulated a full range of appliances, your kitchen would look
like a branch of Comet unless you found some way of hiding them. Not
everyone has room for a utility room where the appearance matters less than
a kitchen.

I will have one non-integrated appliance, though. When the kitchen is
finally complete, it will have a nice range style cooker to go into the
fireplace. (Not an always-on Aga, but the conventional gas version
Rangemaster Classic 90).

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...

....

Yes. They are correctly designed with airflow in mind. They give various
options in terms of vent sizing and positioning. They've thought it all
out.

Even cleaning the heat exchangers?

That's not something I've ever needed to do on a fridge/freezer.

How do you know?

:-)

They can be pulled out
from under the worktop like a freestanding appliance and aren't bolted
in
place at all.

So they're not built in. Just covered at the front.

Correct.

I know a large kitchen like that. I had to open many doors to get to what
I
wanted. The door manufacturers have done a good job persuading consumers
that their appliances are something to be ashamed about :-)

Once you've accumulated a full range of appliances, your kitchen would
look
like a branch of Comet unless you found some way of hiding them.

Oh don't be daft!

Not
everyone has room for a utility room where the appearance matters less
than
a kitchen.

Nor have I. But our kitchen is my workroom. Do you hide your equipment
behind doors in your garage/workshop? Is your sink hidden? If not, does your
kitchen look like a plumber's merchant? What about your bathroom, do you
hide things in there? I wonder how far the designers and salesmen will go
....

I will have one non-integrated appliance, though. When the kitchen is
finally complete, it will have a nice range style cooker to go into the
fireplace. (Not an always-on Aga, but the conventional gas version
Rangemaster Classic 90).

The dual fuel one is what I have. And it's not behind doors. It, like all
the other appliances in our kitchen, is used far too much.

Thinks - do they make cupboards for 5' high fridges and freezers?

Mary

Christian.

Mary Fisher wrote:

Thinks - do they make cupboards for 5' high fridges and freezers?

Yes.

Sheila

"S Viemeister" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

Thinks - do they make cupboards for 5' high fridges and freezers?

Yes.

Why?

Mary

Sheila

Mary Fisher wrote:

"S Viemeister" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

Thinks - do they make cupboards for 5' high fridges and freezers?

Yes.

Why?

To hide them, I suppose?

Sheila

In message , Mary
Fisher writes

"S Viemeister" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

Thinks - do they make cupboards for 5' high fridges and freezers?

Yes.

Why?


Because some people like the look of a kitchen with matching doors etc.
over things?

Why not?
--
Chris French, Leeds

"S Viemeister" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

"S Viemeister" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

Thinks - do they make cupboards for 5' high fridges and freezers?

Yes.

Why?

To hide them, I suppose?

Daft I call it :-)))))

Mary

Sheila

"chris French" wrote in message
news


Because some people like the look of a kitchen with matching doors etc.
over things?

Why not?

No reason - except that if doors weren't available would those people be
worried about seeing their appliances?

:-)

Mary
Leeds
--
Chris French, Leeds

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...

"chris French" wrote in message


One reason is that the oven is at chest height so it is safe and easy to
get
stuff in and out, and easier to look through the glass door to see what
is
going on.
I have never liked bending down to an oven under a hob.

Yep, that is the main reason I prefer separate ovens

But you have to have space in your kitchen ... :-(

I've never felt that a low oven is unsafe though, why should it be? I
wouldn't be keen on taking out a very hot casserole at head or chest
height.
I agree about seeing into the oven but we don't really *need* to do that,
surely?


You seem in particularly Trollish mood in this thread, Mary :-)

So, which is safer?

(1) Lifting out a hot casserole from an oven shelf that is at the same
height as the worksurface and transferring it to said worksurface.

(2) Bending down with consequent risk to your back then reaching into a hot
oven whilst bent double, extracting a hot casserole, then straightening up
to place the casserole on the worksurface?

I would suggest that (1) would be assesed as safer by most experts.
I would also suggest that (2) would be assesed as unsafe for people of
limited mobility, e.g. due to age and/or infirmity.

Cheers
Dave R

P.S. don't think anyone so far has proposed siting the oven at head height.

What about your bathroom, do you hide things in there?

Now you come to mention it, yes.

When I built my last bathroom, I used a concealed cistern toilet. All the
plumbing, including the cistern and all the sink plumbing and drainage was
hidden behind a cabinet, with a worktop across the top. The basin was a
semi-inset type that juts out from the worktop. It was very practical as
well as hiding the plumbing. It provided lots of storage space under the
sink for household chemicals, plus a large surface on top for toiletries.
Easier to clean, too, as you don't have the manky bit of floor round by the
soil pipe.

It wasn't expensive to do. The sink and toilet cost the same as a similar
quality freestanding suite. The cabinet was made from T&G boards and 2x3
studs.

The dual fuel one is what I have. And it's not behind doors. It, like all
the other appliances in our kitchen, is used far too much.

Only the washing machine and tumble dryer involve opening an extra door to
use. The other appliances (fridge/freezer/dishwasher) you just open one door
that matches the kitchen and are no less convenient than freestanding units.

Thinks - do they make cupboards for 5' high fridges and freezers?

Yes. I suspect mine is about that height, or maybe a little taller. It is
actually a fridge freezer, with a little freezer up to worktop height and a
large fridge above.

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
What about your bathroom, do you hide things in there?

Now you come to mention it, yes.

When I built my last bathroom, I used a concealed cistern toilet. All the
plumbing, including the cistern and all the sink plumbing and drainage was
hidden behind a cabinet, with a worktop across the top. The basin was a
semi-inset type that juts out from the worktop. It was very practical as
well as hiding the plumbing. It provided lots of storage space under the
sink for household chemicals, plus a large surface on top for toiletries.
Easier to clean, too, as you don't have the manky bit of floor round by
the
soil pipe.

er - we weren't talking about concealing plumping and other servicing but
about the actual applicances. Do you have to open separate doors to use your
toilet, bidet or bath?

And you haven't addressed the workroom philophy - that of hiding large
equipment which is exactly the same as hiding kitchen applicances.

It wasn't expensive to do. The sink and toilet cost the same as a similar
quality freestanding suite. The cabinet was made from T&G boards and 2x3
studs.

I remember that becoming fashionable in the 1950s, my mother boxed in
everything she could. It made more ledges to dust ...


Thinks - do they make cupboards for 5' high fridges and freezers?

Yes. I suspect mine is about that height, or maybe a little taller. It is
actually a fridge freezer, with a little freezer up to worktop height and
a
large fridge above.

We have a tall fridge and a tall freezer next to each other - but only
because they happened to fit into the space. The chest freezer and smaller
fridge - for specialised storage - are in a shed. They're open to view too.
Even if we ever replace our kitchen appliances we shan't conceal them. It's
not important to us and we're not ashamed (or proud!) of them.

Each to his own.

Mary

Christian.

"David W.E. Roberts" wrote in message
...

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...

"chris French" wrote in message


One reason is that the oven is at chest height so it is safe and easy
to
get
stuff in and out, and easier to look through the glass door to see what
is
going on.
I have never liked bending down to an oven under a hob.

Yep, that is the main reason I prefer separate ovens

But you have to have space in your kitchen ... :-(

I've never felt that a low oven is unsafe though, why should it be? I
wouldn't be keen on taking out a very hot casserole at head or chest
height.
I agree about seeing into the oven but we don't really *need* to do that,
surely?


You seem in particularly Trollish mood in this thread, Mary :-)

That's your perception :-)

So, which is safer?

(1) Lifting out a hot casserole from an oven shelf that is at the same
height as the worksurface and transferring it to said worksurface.

You have to have space to do that. Our kitchen is very small.

(2) Bending down with consequent risk to your back


NONONO!!!!!!!!!

You bend the knees ... never bend the back.

then reaching into a hot
oven whilst bent double, extracting a hot casserole, then straightening up
to place the casserole on the worksurface?

See above.

I would also suggest that (2) would be assesed as unsafe for people of
limited mobility, e.g. due to age and/or infirmity.

I'm sure you're right about that. I'm old and arthritic in hands and back
and knees which is why I never bend over, even if I'm not lifting.

Experts will teach you exactly how to bend and lift safely, it's a basic
rule of the HSE. I leave dangerous practices to younger and less sensible
people.

Cheers
Dave R

P.S. don't think anyone so far has proposed siting the oven at head
height.

I've seen them, perhaps they don't now.

They also used to have eye level grills, perhaps still do. How to blind
yourself with a sausage!

Mary

Mary Fisher wrote:
"S Viemeister" wrote in message
...

Anna Kettle wrote:

The base and hob pair I bought for my last house was excellent.
Trouble is I can't remember the brand so I'm hoping someone will
mention it so I can go 'me too' It was reasonably priced, made in
England I think and a had good quality enamel hob with the knobs at
the front. Why do they generally put the knobs at the side so you risk
igniting your arm to get to them?


One of my pet peeves! And the ones that have a cluster of knobs (often
five) at the centre top.


Mine has all controls at the front, I wouldn't use anything else. And I have
four different sizes of hobs which has increased my control no end.

They must be designed by non-cooks - or by folk who only use tiny pots and
pans.

The deLonghi gas hob & electric fan oven are on offer as a pair for £250
from Comet at the moment. I fitted one (well, both) yesterday and they
did seem quite nice & well made for a cheapie.Don't know how they'll
fare in the longer run of course. They have controls at the front on the
hob, and that you can understand on the oven :-)

John Stumbles wrote:

The deLonghi gas hob & electric fan oven are on offer as a pair for £250
from Comet at the moment. I fitted one (well, both) yesterday and they
did seem quite nice & well made for a cheapie.Don't know how they'll
fare in the longer run of course. They have controls at the front on the
hob, and that you can understand on the oven :-)

GBP 250 for _both_?
Do you have the model numbers and/or URL for them?

Sheila

S Viemeister wrote:
John Stumbles wrote:


The deLonghi gas hob & electric fan oven are on offer as a pair for £250
from Comet at the moment. I fitted one (well, both) yesterday and they
did seem quite nice & well made for a cheapie.Don't know how they'll
fare in the longer run of course. They have controls at the front on the
hob, and that you can understand on the oven :-)


GBP 250 for _both_?
Do you have the model numbers and/or URL for them?

I saw them in the shop - haven't looked online.
The oven is model no ESF461ST - don't have the hob's

Mary Fisher wrote:

And you haven't addressed the workroom philophy - that of hiding large
equipment which is exactly the same as hiding kitchen applicances.

You could look at it as having them match rather than hiding them. Is it
really any more 'hiding' them than having the works covered over rather
than being open to the world like a Richard Rogers building? Seems to me
a matter of personal taste. Must say though: I find it a PITA when I'm
looking for the fridge in someone else's kitchen and you have to open
every door until you find it!


It wasn't expensive to do. The sink and toilet cost the same as a similar
quality freestanding suite. The cabinet was made from T&G boards and 2x3
studs.


I remember that becoming fashionable in the 1950s, my mother boxed in
everything she could. It made more ledges to dust ...

I've come across some lovely cast-iron roll-top baths crudely boxed in
with hardboard & the like!


Each to his own.

exactly