Following on from the frequent "discussions" that happen round these
parts regarding power tools and their selection, here is a first draft
of a potential FAQ section on power tool selection.

Please feel free to offer (constructive) criticism. Suggest any sections
you think I have missed, fill in any missing pros and cons, and (this
will be fun) add more brands to the categories at the end!

****

Choosing a power tool

Choice of power tool is a topic that comes up for discussion at regular
intervals on uk.d i y, which frequently generates long threads of
opinion and counter opinion! Much of this discussion seems to stem from
different peoples understanding of what "DIY" is all about, as well as
each person having often conflicting needs and expectations.

To help focus discussion, this section of the FAQ sets out some of the
various tool buying policies. If you use this to identify which
description most closely resembles your current need, you should be able
to solicit advice from the group that takes this need into
consideration, and will save you needing to wade through too many heated
debates!

What do *you* mean by DIY?

DIY will mean different things to different people. For some it will be
about saving money, for others it may be a relaxing hobby. It could be
as simple as occasionally erecting a shelf, or changing a tap washer.
For others it could be as elaborate as building your own house! It is
safe to say that the tool you purchase to with the expectation that it
will love in a cupboard for 362 days a year, may well be very different
to the one that with which you indulge your hobby of fine furniture
making five days a week. Hence before deciding on much else it is
advisable to decide on what level of use you anticipate making of the tool.

Class of tool:

There is a huge variety of power tools available from the general
purpose to the highly specialised. Almost every DIY shop will not only
stock a selection of well know brands, they will often offer their own
range of "own brand" tools, and prices for similar looking tools can
range from as little as £5 to well over £500. Understanding the
manufacturing and distribution model for these tools can go a long way
to help understand this range.

Budget tools

At the cheaper end of the market, the majority of tools are manufactured
in the far east at low prices and then "branded" for the eventual
retailer. Tools in this category can often be purchased for very small
initial cost. Typically however since access to the original equipment
manufacturer (OEM) is limited, getting any after sales service and
spares for these tools can be difficult or impossible. Often the
retailer may offer more attractive warranty terms to mitigate some of
these limitations. So if a tool breaks during its warranty period, then
the retailer will simply replace it. However, after this time the tool
will need to be discarded and a replacement sought. Note also that you
may need to factor in the cost of your time should frequent trips to the
shop be needed to acquire a warranty replacement.

High End tools

At the high end, tools are often built and assembled by factories owned
by the brand maker, or built for them by OEMs to the brands
specification. There will be a service and support network that will
enable tools to be repaired, and spare parts obtained. Needless to say
this backup and support has to be paid for in higher tool prices.

Mid Range tools

The mid range can be even more confusing since it can encompass tools
from both categories above – often with the range of tools available
from the same maker taking products from both sources.

Class of dealer

Many tools are available from a wide range of sources including the big
name DIY shop, to the specialised independent tool supplier. There are
cases where a average quality tool purchased from an above average
retailer will offer some of the benefits and after sales care that
usually only comes with much higher price tools.


The purchasing factors

There are a large number of factors that can be taken into account when
making any buying decision; some are obvious like features of the
product and its price, but some are more subtle. For any given purchase
you will need to weigh up these factors. They may often be different for
each tool you buy.

1) Tool features
2) Purchase Price
3) Availability of spares and support
4) Tool quality (and quality of results achievable with it)
5) Total cost of ownership (factoring in your time to buy and maintain
the tool, cost of spares etc)
6) Comfort of use
7) Speed of operation
8) Availability of suppliers (and service where applicable)
9) How much you anticipate the tool will be used
10) How long you need it to last
11) Brand image


Buying policies:

The disposable tool

This is an easy one! Sometimes a tool is needed for a specific job and
then that is it. Chances that it will be used again are slim. Often
hiring a tool is a good way to meet this need, but that will not always
be cost effective or practical if you are going to need it on an ad hoc
basis spread over several weeks.

In this category tools from the cheaper end of the market can be ideal,
often you are not too concerned what the life expectancy of the tool
will be, so long as it gets the job done. If it lasts longer then that
is a bonus.

Pros

1) Can be cost effective compared to hiring
2) Ready availability of suitable tools from most DIY shops

Cons

1) The quality of the tool compared to a hired one may be inferior
2) Tool may be less comfortable to use, achieve lower standard of
results, and take longer
3) You either need to store or otherwise dispose of the tool when the
job is done


The "buy several" approach

The own brand tool may not offer the reliability and performance of a
more expensive tool. However the price is often such that you can buy
more than one of them for the price of a better tool. Should the tool
fail you simply discard it and switch to its replacement and carry on
working. Note also the same policy can be applied to any type of tool in
any price range if it is important that you can carry on working, not
just the "DIY shop special", Even expensive tools bought for business
use may fall into this category.

Pros

1) If a tool fails you have an immediate replacement with no
interruption to your work
2) You can have several tools "on the go at once". With things like
drills this may equate to faster working since you will not need to stop
to swap between say a drill bit and a screwdriver bit, just pick up a
different tool.
3)

Cons

1) The money spent on two tools may buy one of better quality, which may
outlast the two cheaper ones, give better results, and be nicer to use.
2) You need more storage space.
3)


The mid range choice

This is the hardest range to purchase from, because there is a huge
choice, and it is not possible to make blanket purchasing decisions
based on brand for example. Each brand will have good and not so good
products in this class. Buying from this range is often what the ad men
call an "aspirational purchase" (i.e. you would like something better,
but budget dictates you buy something similar but cheaper!).

Pros
1) These tools can be well suited to the less intensive user
2) Results and quality of work that can be produced will often be higher
than with lower end tools
3) After sales service and support may be available
4) Ready availability
5) Lots of competition keeps prices low.

Cons
1) May not survive intensive use
2) Quality, comfort of use, speed etc, may still be lacking
3) After sales service and support may not be available.

The "top quality" approach

Sometimes only the best will do. If the work you want to do demands the
highest quality of finish, or you want the utmost comfort and ease of
use from your tools then this might be the approach for you. You can
expect tools in this category to stand up to intensive every day use,
even for "trade" purposes. Reliability should also be better than the
other groups, and spares and after sales service should be readily
available. Ideally suited to the serious DIYer, the tradesman and
craftsman.

Pros
1) Suitable for intensive hard work, including continuous running.
2) Highest quality results
3) Smoothest operation resulting in good finish and low operator fatigue
4) Good finesse of control
5) Service, support and spares, available.
6) More able to take "abuse"
7) More operator "pleasure" in operation.

Cons:
1) Tools are more expensive
2) Also more likely to be stolen if not carefully looked after
3) Even when repair services are available there may be down time
waiting for repairs to be carried out.



Which brand is which?

Identifying which of the above groups a tool belongs to is not always
straight forward. Many people will not even agree which is which. Some
brands may make tools in several distinct categories, (which may or may
not be distinguished in some way). Many brands will also acquire others
so as to increase their range either up or down market without needing
to reposition the whole brand in the marketplace.

Budget brand tools:

NuTool, JCB, Many DIY shop "own brand tools", Power Devil

Mid range tools

Bosh (green bodied), Black & Decker, Skill, Wicks own brand (grey
bodied), Freud, DeWalt

High End

Makita, Trend, Bosh (blue bodied), Hitachi, Festool, Fein, Lamello,
Freud, Elu, Metabo, DeWalt


****


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
Following on from the frequent "discussions" that happen round these
parts regarding power tools and their selection, here is a first draft
of a potential FAQ section on power tool selection.

Please feel free to offer (constructive) criticism. Suggest any sections
you think I have missed, fill in any missing pros and cons, and (this
will be fun) add more brands to the categories at the end!

****

Choosing a power tool

Choice of power tool is a topic that comes up for discussion at regular
intervals on uk.d i y, which frequently generates long threads of
opinion and counter opinion! Much of this discussion seems to stem from
different peoples understanding of what "DIY" is all about, as well as
each person having often conflicting needs and expectations.

To help focus discussion, this section of the FAQ sets out some of the
various tool buying policies. If you use this to identify which
description most closely resembles your current need, you should be able
to solicit advice from the group that takes this need into
consideration, and will save you needing to wade through too many heated
debates!

What do *you* mean by DIY?

DIY will mean different things to different people. For some it will be
about saving money, for others it may be a relaxing hobby. It could be
as simple as occasionally erecting a shelf, or changing a tap washer.
For others it could be as elaborate as building your own house! It is
safe to say that the tool you purchase to with the expectation that it
xx
will love in a cupboard for 362 days a year, may well be very different
live
to the one that with which you indulge your hobby of fine furniture
xxxx
making five days a week. Hence before deciding on much else it is
advisable to decide on what level of use you anticipate making of the tool.

Class of tool:

There is a huge variety of power tools available from the general
purpose to the highly specialised. Almost every DIY shop will not only
stock a selection of well know brands, they will often offer their own
^n
range of "own brand" tools, and prices for similar looking tools can
range from as little as £5 to well over £500. Understanding the
manufacturing and distribution model for these tools can go a long way
to help understand this range.

Budget tools

At the cheaper end of the market, the majority of tools are manufactured
in the far east at low prices and then "branded" for the eventual
retailer. Tools in this category can often be purchased for very small
initial cost. Typically however since access to the original equipment
manufacturer (OEM) is limited, getting any after sales service and
spares for these tools can be difficult or impossible. Often the
retailer may offer more attractive warranty terms to mitigate some of
these limitations. So if a tool breaks during its warranty period, then
the retailer will simply replace it. However, after this time the tool
will need to be discarded and a replacement sought. Note also that you
may need to factor in the cost of your time should frequent trips to the
shop be needed to acquire a warranty replacement.

On the other hand cheap tools can give you useful experience of that
type of tool and help you decide whether you really need a better (and
more expensive) one. Ultimately if you use it enough to break it you
know that you do!


High End tools

At the high end, tools are often built and assembled by factories owned
by the brand maker, or built for them by OEMs to the brands
'
specification. There will be a service and support network that will
enable tools to be repaired, and spare parts obtained. Needless to say
this backup and support has to be paid for in higher tool prices.

Mid Range tools

The mid range can be even more confusing since it can encompass tools
from both categories above – often with the range of tools available
from the same maker taking products from both sources.

Class of dealer

Many tools are available from a wide range of sources including the big
name DIY shop, to the specialised independent tool supplier. There are
cases where a average quality tool purchased from an above average
retailer will offer some of the benefits and after sales care that
usually only comes with much higher price tools.


The purchasing factors

There are a large number of factors that can be taken into account when
making any buying decision; some are obvious like features of the
product and its price, but some are more subtle. For any given purchase
you will need to weigh up these factors. They may often be different for
each tool you buy.

1) Tool features
2) Purchase Price
3) Availability of spares and support
4) Tool quality (and quality of results achievable with it)
5) Total cost of ownership (factoring in your time to buy and
maintain the tool, cost of spares etc)
6) Comfort of use
7) Speed of operation
8) Availability of suppliers (and service where applicable)
9) How much you anticipate the tool will be used
10) How long you need it to last
11) Brand image


Buying policies:

The disposable tool

This is an easy one! Sometimes a tool is needed for a specific job and
then that is it. Chances that it will be used again are slim. Often
hiring a tool is a good way to meet this need, but that will not always
be cost effective or practical if you are going to need it on an ad hoc
basis spread over several weeks.

In this category tools from the cheaper end of the market can be ideal,
often you are not too concerned what the life expectancy of the tool
will be, so long as it gets the job done. If it lasts longer then that
is a bonus.

Pros

1) Can be cost effective compared to hiring
2) Ready availability of suitable tools from most DIY shops

Cons

1) The quality of the tool compared to a hired one may be inferior
2) Tool may be less comfortable to use, achieve lower standard of
results, and take longer
3) You either need to store or otherwise dispose of the tool when the
job is done


The "buy several" approach

The own brand tool may not offer the reliability and performance of a
more expensive tool. However the price is often such that you can buy
more than one of them for the price of a better tool. Should the tool
fail you simply discard it and switch to its replacement and carry on
working. Note also the same policy can be applied to any type of tool in
any price range if it is important that you can carry on working, not
just the "DIY shop special", Even expensive tools bought for business
use may fall into this category.

Pros

1) If a tool fails you have an immediate replacement with no
interruption to your work
2) You can have several tools "on the go at once". With things like
drills this may equate to faster working since you will not need to stop
to swap between say a drill bit and a screwdriver bit, just pick up a
different tool.
3)

Cons

1) The money spent on two tools may buy one of better quality, which
may outlast the two cheaper ones, give better results, and be nicer to use.
2) You need more storage space.
3)


The mid range choice

This is the hardest range to purchase from, because there is a huge
choice, and it is not possible to make blanket purchasing decisions
based on brand for example. Each brand will have good and not so good
products in this class. Buying from this range is often what the ad men
call an "aspirational purchase" (i.e. you would like something better,
but budget dictates you buy something similar but cheaper!).

Pros
1) These tools can be well suited to the less intensive user
2) Results and quality of work that can be produced will often be
higher than with lower end tools
3) After sales service and support may be available
4) Ready availability
5) Lots of competition keeps prices low.

Cons
1) May not survive intensive use
2) Quality, comfort of use, speed etc, may still be lacking
3) After sales service and support may not be available.

The "top quality" approach

Sometimes only the best will do. If the work you want to do demands the
highest quality of finish, or you want the utmost comfort and ease of
use from your tools then this might be the approach for you. You can
expect tools in this category to stand up to intensive every day use,
even for "trade" purposes. Reliability should also be better than the
other groups, and spares and after sales service should be readily
available. Ideally suited to the serious DIYer, the tradesman and
craftsman.

Pros
1) Suitable for intensive hard work, including continuous running.
2) Highest quality results
3) Smoothest operation resulting in good finish and low operator fatigue
4) Good finesse of control
5) Service, support and spares, available.
6) More able to take "abuse"
7) More operator "pleasure" in operation.

Cons:
1) Tools are more expensive
2) Also more likely to be stolen if not carefully looked after
3) Even when repair services are available there may be down time
waiting for repairs to be carried out.



Which brand is which?

Identifying which of the above groups a tool belongs to is not always
straight forward. Many people will not even agree which is which. Some
brands may make tools in several distinct categories, (which may or may
not be distinguished in some way). Many brands will also acquire others
so as to increase their range either up or down market without needing
to reposition the whole brand in the marketplace.

Budget brand tools:

NuTool, JCB, Many DIY shop "own brand tools", Power Devil
Ferm


Mid range tools

Bosh (green bodied), Black & Decker, Skill, Wicks own brand (grey
bodied), Freud, DeWalt
??????
PPPro (B&Q)
Ryobi

High End

Makita, Trend, Bosh (blue bodied), Hitachi, Festool, Fein, Lamello,
Freud, Elu, Metabo, DeWalt
Ryobi
Atlas-Copco/Milwaukee



****



Really ought to say something about batteries and chargers(/cookers :-)
since this is a big factor wrt cordless tools and a lot of people don't
pay much attention to them.

Overall I think this is a general intro but we could do with specifics
of particular tools including corded and cordless drills (e.g. geared
speeds, variable speed, hammer, sds, roto stop, weight, torque limit,
safety clutch, chuck size & type) jigsaws, circular saws, routers, angle
grinders ....

John Stumbles wrote:

will love in a cupboard for 362 days a year, may well be very different

live

;-), now that is a mental picture to conjure with!

On the other hand cheap tools can give you useful experience of that
type of tool and help you decide whether you really need a better (and
more expensive) one. Ultimately if you use it enough to break it you
know that you do!

Yes good point... a sort of "practice tool" catagory, not sure if I will
get much use from it but get a cheap one to try...



Mid range tools

Bosh (green bodied), Black & Decker, Skill, Wicks own brand (grey
bodied), Freud, DeWalt

??????

Which were you questioning? (DeWalt being in mid range?)

Really ought to say something about batteries and chargers(/cookers :-)
since this is a big factor wrt cordless tools and a lot of people don't
pay much attention to them.

Yup, a whole section is needed on cordless I think....


Overall I think this is a general intro but we could do with specifics
of particular tools including corded and cordless drills (e.g. geared
speeds, variable speed, hammer, sds, roto stop, weight, torque limit,
safety clutch, chuck size & type) jigsaws, circular saws, routers, angle
grinders ....

Yup... also perhaps the tools where there is a large jump in performance
between the entry level tools and the top end. Jig saws spring to mind...

Perhaps the above could be in a section headed by tool type, along with
a "why you might want one" catagory.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
Following on from the frequent "discussions" that happen round these
parts regarding power tools and their selection, here is a first
draft
of a potential FAQ section on power tool selection.

Please feel free to offer (constructive) criticism.


Nice job. A few points:

a full listing of brand names would be helpful, Ferm wasnt there eg.

dont overlook old power tools, getting an oldie has its place too, i
bought some and consider them good purchases. Cost near nothing, good
value, and handy for some jobs - only.

some tools have huge difference between good and bad, and with some the
difference is much less. Eg jigsaws I would never recmomend buying
anything but a good q one, anything less is bin material. OTOH most
cheapo circs are fine, with the exception of poor devil.

It could be said in a lot less words, cutting the waffle would make it
rather more reader friendly.

COrdless: this old chestnut needs addressing.


NT

John Rumm wrote:
parts regarding power tools and their selection, here is a first
draft
of a potential FAQ section on power tool selection.

safety: eg belt driven angle grinders vs direct drive, and torque slip
sds vs those without. And metal drills vs plastic.

And maybe a word re electric planes, they look so harmless but are one
of the higher risk tools. And praps mention that the yellow sparks off
angle grinders really are yellow hot.

Oh! a lot of people use direct vent goggles with angle grinds, the
local hospital sees people with eye injuries from using these
regularly. Only use indircet vent goggles with a-g's.

And grit discs are much more prone to explode into pieces than diamond.


NT

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...

Budget brand tools:

NuTool, JCB, Many DIY shop "own brand tools", Power Devil
Ferm

Mid range tools

Bosh (green bodied), Black & Decker, Skill, Wicks own brand (grey
bodied), Freud, DeWalt
??????
PPPro (B&Q)
Ryobi

High End

Makita, Trend, Bosh (blue bodied), Hitachi, Festool, Fein, Lamello,
Freud, Elu, Metabo, DeWalt
Ryobi
Atlas-Copco/Milwaukee

Panasonic.

Really ought to say something about batteries and chargers(/cookers :-)
since this is a big factor wrt cordless tools and a lot of people don't
pay much attention to them.

The average DIYer is better off with mains drill with torque control for
driving. In most cases a socket is handy. Then no problem of batteries
going kaput and change the whole tool. Unfortunately these tools are not
cheap, but something you may have for 20 plus years, so not that bad. Mains
and battery must be viewed very differently, as mains doesn't date that much
and last far longer and gives more power. And only go battery of you really
need that away from the socket capability, which most DIYers don't

Overall I think this is a general intro but we could do with specifics
of particular tools including corded and cordless drills (e.g. geared
speeds, variable speed, hammer, sds, roto stop, weight, torque limit,
safety clutch, chuck size & type) jigsaws, circular saws, routers, angle
grinders ....

SDS.

In my view a complete drill kit is:

1. mid range 12v drill./driver
2. £80 plus SDS drill with rotary stop
3. cheap 700w general pupose mains hammer drill.

That covers the lot.




_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Following on from the frequent "discussions" that happen round these
parts regarding power tools and their selection, here is a first draft
of a potential FAQ section on power tool selection.

Please feel free to offer (constructive) criticism. Suggest any sections
you think I have missed, fill in any missing pros and cons, and (this
will be fun) add more brands to the categories at the end!

****

Choosing a power tool

Choice of power tool is a topic that comes up for discussion at regular
intervals on uk.d i y, which frequently generates long threads of
opinion and counter opinion! Much of this discussion seems to stem from
different peoples understanding of what "DIY" is all about, as well as
each person having often conflicting needs and expectations.

To help focus discussion, this section of the FAQ sets out some of the
various tool buying policies. If you use this to identify which
description most closely resembles your current need, you should be able
to solicit advice from the group that takes this need into
consideration, and will save you needing to wade through too many heated
debates!

What do *you* mean by DIY?

DIY will mean different things to different people. For some it will be
about saving money, for others it may be a relaxing hobby. It could be
as simple as occasionally erecting a shelf, or changing a tap washer.
For others it could be as elaborate as building your own house! It is
safe to say that the tool you purchase to with the expectation that it
will love in a cupboard for 362 days a year, may well be very different
to the one that with which you indulge your hobby of fine furniture
making five days a week. Hence before deciding on much else it is
advisable to decide on what level of use you anticipate making of the
tool.

Class of tool:

There is a huge variety of power tools available from the general
purpose to the highly specialised. Almost every DIY shop will not only
stock a selection of well know brands, they will often offer their own
range of "own brand" tools, and prices for similar looking tools can
range from as little as £5 to well over £500. Understanding the
manufacturing and distribution model for these tools can go a long way
to help understand this range.

Budget tools

At the cheaper end of the market, the majority of tools are manufactured
in the far east at low prices and then "branded" for the eventual
retailer. Tools in this category can often be purchased for very small
initial cost. Typically however since access to the original equipment
manufacturer (OEM) is limited, getting any after sales service and
spares for these tools can be difficult or impossible. Often the
retailer may offer more attractive warranty terms to mitigate some of
these limitations. So if a tool breaks during its warranty period, then
the retailer will simply replace it. However, after this time the tool
will need to be discarded and a replacement sought. Note also that you
may need to factor in the cost of your time should frequent trips to the
shop be needed to acquire a warranty replacement.

You make it sound as if all budget tools will fail after a year or so. 6
years ago I bought a £15 Power Devil to drill pilot holes so I would not be
changing drills. It still works.

6-7 years ago buying cheapo tools was a waste of money, now the
"price/performance" has moved from high end tools to the mid range: Wickes
(Kress) , Ryobi, etc. The quality of cheap tools has increased enormously.
The lower end of the mid range is highly cost effective if reasonable
quality is needed and the tools are infrequently used or bought for a
project, e.g., an extension. If high precision is needed, mitre saws,
routers, etc, then only some top end tools can fit the bill. Most jobs
don't require high precision.




_________________________________________
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More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
The average DIYer is better off with mains drill with torque control for
driving. In most cases a socket is handy. Then no problem of batteries
going kaput and change the whole tool. Unfortunately these tools are not
cheap, but something you may have for 20 plus years, so not that bad.

Now that *is* sense. Cordless drills seem very attractive at first
thought, but in practice for intermittent DIY use are likely to be a pain.
And at about the same money, a mains drill will out perform a cordless one
every time.

--
*Dance like nobody's watching.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 00:25:08 +0000, John Stumbles
wrote:



On the other hand cheap tools can give you useful experience of that
type of tool and help you decide whether you really need a better (and
more expensive) one. Ultimately if you use it enough to break it you
know that you do!

I think that this is fair comment. One could do this with a low end
product, but with a mid range it may not be justifiable moving up to
the high end if it involves dumping the mid range, and therefore being
left kicking oneself for not buying the better one in the first place.

Also, there are cases where the real entry level gives a poor
impression of the tool type in general. Jigsaws are a very good
example of this.

Perhaps we could put in a few notes on where we know of exceptions
like this.




High End

Makita, Trend, Bosh (blue bodied), Hitachi, Festool, Fein, Lamello,
Freud, Elu, Metabo, DeWalt
Ryobi
Atlas-Copco/Milwaukee



I agree with you regarding Milwaukee. They are a very popular trade
tool in the U.S. and seem to be more popular than DeWalt for the trade
market.

I have difficulty with placing Ryobi anywhere above mid range.......





****



Really ought to say something about batteries and chargers(/cookers :-)
since this is a big factor wrt cordless tools and a lot of people don't
pay much attention to them.

Definitely. Also motors and motor control.




Overall I think this is a general intro but we could do with specifics
of particular tools including corded and cordless drills (e.g. geared
speeds, variable speed, hammer, sds, roto stop, weight, torque limit,
safety clutch, chuck size & type) jigsaws, circular saws, routers, angle
grinders ....


If you mean generic comments to this level of detail, I completely
agree. It's probably better to avoid getting too much into product
and model specifics because experiences vary and information is likely
to change quickly as models come and go. I don't think that any of
us has the time to maintain a list like that.




--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 06:31:43 -0000, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


High End

Makita, Trend, Bosh (blue bodied), Hitachi, Festool, Fein, Lamello,
Freud, Elu, Metabo, DeWalt
Ryobi
Atlas-Copco/Milwaukee

Panasonic.

Agreed.




Really ought to say something about batteries and chargers(/cookers :-)
since this is a big factor wrt cordless tools and a lot of people don't
pay much attention to them.

The average DIYer is better off with mains drill with torque control for
driving. In most cases a socket is handy. Then no problem of batteries
going kaput and change the whole tool. Unfortunately these tools are not
cheap, but something you may have for 20 plus years, so not that bad. Mains
and battery must be viewed very differently, as mains doesn't date that much
and last far longer and gives more power. And only go battery of you really
need that away from the socket capability, which most DIYers don't

I agree with your analysis of mains drills in the sense that if one
has to pick *one* drill only, then there is a good case for it being a
mains one rather than a crappy cordless one with poor batteries.

I don't agree with the notion of "average DIYer". I think that
John's introduction is good in that respect because it allows people
to identify themselves with what is appropriate to them and begin to
choose based on criteria which are likely to match with that rather
than aiming too high or too low.



Overall I think this is a general intro but we could do with specifics
of particular tools including corded and cordless drills (e.g. geared
speeds, variable speed, hammer, sds, roto stop, weight, torque limit,
safety clutch, chuck size & type) jigsaws, circular saws, routers, angle
grinders ....

SDS.

In my view a complete drill kit is:

1. mid range 12v drill./driver
2. £80 plus SDS drill with rotary stop
3. cheap 700w general pupose mains hammer drill.

That covers the lot.


I'd agree that it's not a bad mix and will do a lot.

Some people may prefer to put 1) and 3) together, probably add a bit
more money to it and buy a good quality 14.4, 15.6 or 18v cordless.

If you have a reasonably good 2kg SDS with ability to stop the
percussion action, you've covered even the mid range to smaller
masonry requirements that are beyond a cordless.




--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

wrote :-

snip
, and torque slip sds vs those without.

Hmm , got a dewalt sds at work with a clutch, infuriating, only possible use
is up a ladder or single handed

IMHO - the one drill that should get a lookin is the bosch sds with quick
change chuck and rotostop - just so versatile and buy once last a lifetime.
The problem is most people have never drilled masonary with sds - I used one
at work for the first time 6 years ago and it was such a revelation I had to
buy one.

Regards Jeff

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 06:31:43 -0000, "Doctor Evil"

In my view a complete drill kit is:

1. mid range 12v drill./driver
2. £80 plus SDS drill with rotary stop
3. cheap 700w general pupose mains hammer drill.

That covers the lot.


I'd agree that it's not a bad mix and will do a lot.

Some people may prefer to put 1) and 3) together, probably add a bit
more money to it and buy a good quality 14.4, 15.6 or 18v cordless.

Once you are above 12v they are a bit too big for constant driving.

If you have a reasonably good 2kg SDS with ability to stop the
percussion action, you've covered even the mid range to smaller
masonry requirements that are beyond a cordless.



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"Jeff" wrote in message
...

wrote :-

snip
, and torque slip sds vs those without.

Hmm , got a dewalt sds at work with a clutch, infuriating, only possible
use
is up a ladder or single handed

IMHO - the one drill that should get a lookin is the bosch sds with quick
change chuck and rotostop

All SDSs have a quick change chuck. I assume you mean quick change of the
bits.


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On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 11:28:43 -0000, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message


I'd agree that it's not a bad mix and will do a lot.

Some people may prefer to put 1) and 3) together, probably add a bit
more money to it and buy a good quality 14.4, 15.6 or 18v cordless.

Once you are above 12v they are a bit too big for constant driving.



I'd agree with you on the larger 18v ones.

I can comfortably use my Makita 14.4v all day without problems
although usually arrange things so that I have a cordless screwdriver
for screws and the drill for holes. Possibly alternating tools helps.


--

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To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Doctor Evil wrote :-

All SDSs have a quick change chuck. I assume you mean quick change of the
bits.

No - I mean quick change of chuck - you can swap from sds to keyless with no
tools in seconds - very versatile, and they come in blue and green flavours
too

Regards Jeff

Doctor Evil wrote:

retailer may offer more attractive warranty terms to mitigate some of
these limitations. So if a tool breaks during its warranty period, then
the retailer will simply replace it. However, after this time the tool
will need to be discarded and a replacement sought. Note also that you
may need to factor in the cost of your time should frequent trips to the
shop be needed to acquire a warranty replacement.


You make it sound as if all budget tools will fail after a year or so. 6
years ago I bought a ï½£15 Power Devil to drill pilot holes so I would not be
changing drills. It still works.

I did chose my words carefully... hence "*if* a tool breaks...." rather
than "when". I was trying to avoid giving the impication that it will
fail, but at the same time wanted to point out the implications of what
happens shoul it fail. However feel free to suggest an alternative form
of words.


--
Cheers,

John.

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\================================================= ================/

"Jeff" wrote in message
...

Doctor Evil wrote :-

All SDSs have a quick change chuck. I assume
you mean quick change of the bits.

No - I mean quick change of chuck - you can
swap from sds to keyless with no
tools in seconds - very versatile, and they come
in blue and green flavours too

Many have a normal chuck that clips intio the SDS check. Makes it longer but
works just as well.

Do Bosch supply the extra chuck? If not how much?


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Doctor Evil wrote :-
Many have a normal chuck that clips intio the SDS check. Makes it longer
but
works just as well.

bit of a wobbly codge

Do Bosch supply the extra chuck? If not how much?

Yes - see 3rd one down
http://www.powertooldirect.co.uk/ind...d=38386.844722

Regards Jeff

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
Many have a normal chuck that clips intio the SDS check. Makes it longer
but works just as well.

For rough work, possibly. They introduce more slop than is desirable. Far
better to buy a cheap mains drill - which will also run at higher speeds
than an SDS.

--
*Never put off until tomorrow what you can avoid altogether *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Doctor Evil wrote:
"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...

Really ought to say something about batteries and chargers(/cookers :-)
since this is a big factor wrt cordless tools and a lot of people don't
pay much attention to them.


The average DIYer is better off with mains drill with torque control for
driving. In most cases a socket is handy. Then no problem of batteries
going kaput and change the whole tool. Unfortunately these tools are not
cheap, but something you may have for 20 plus years, so not that bad. Mains
and battery must be viewed very differently, as mains doesn't date that much
and last far longer and gives more power. And only go battery of you really
need that away from the socket capability, which most DIYers don't

I must admit I haven't had a mains drill with good enough speed and/or
torque control to use for driving. If you can get one for the cost of a
cheap cordless then there's a good argument to go for that. However
since you can get a Bosch cordless (which I assume has a reasonable
battery and charger) for £75 - £100 then if a good mains drill is
similar price I'd say go for the cordless, unless it's really only ever
for drilling a couple of holes once in a blue moon. Once you start doing
any serious amount of work the lack of hassle of fiddling about with
extension cables and untangling cables when using a cordless is priceless.

In my view a complete drill kit is:

1. mid range 12v drill./driver
2. £80 plus SDS drill with rotary stop
3. cheap 700w general pupose mains hammer drill.

Can't see the use of 3 if you've got 1 and 2: I use a dW 14.4 (non-combi
i.e. no hammer action) with universal/cordless drill bits (£8 for set of
5 from sfx) with which I can drill everything short of quarry tiles, and
the SDS does the latter. The dW is small and light enough for driving
too, although I previously used my lumpy old PPPro (Ryobi) 18V combi for
that, and occasionally still use my 14.4V Site (another B&Q rebadged
Ryobi, also lumpy) when I'm doing a lot of drilling and driving and
don't want to keep changing bits.

John Rumm wrote:
John Stumbles wrote:

Mid range tools

Bosh (green bodied), Black & Decker, Skill, Wicks own brand (grey
bodied), Freud, DeWalt


??????


Which were you questioning? (DeWalt being in mid range?)
Yes, I thought they were pretty firmly in the Pro camp: certainly equiv
to Bosch blue rather than green.

John Stumbles wrote:

Which were you questioning? (DeWalt being in mid range?)


Yes, I thought they were pretty firmly in the Pro camp: certainly equiv
to Bosch blue rather than green.

That is certainly where their traditional image and market was, although
these days it seems that some of the better B&D kit has crept into the
low end DW range, hence my inclusion there.

--
Cheers,

John.

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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
John Stumbles wrote:
I must admit I haven't had a mains drill with good enough speed and/or
torque control to use for driving.

I've got a fairly ancient B&D Tradesman which is excellent for screw
driving on its slowest speed. Only the one (same) slow speed in reverse
though. No torque control, but not a problem in practice - the speed is
slow enough to 'feel' when it's tight.

Could be this sort of drill isn't easily available these days - given
everyone wants cordless for DIY.

It's got a two speed gearbox as well as the electronic control, and the
only similar one in spec in the Screwfix cat is the DeWalt 505 at over 90
quid. The Bosch GSB13RE at 43 quid is variable speed and reversing, but
only one gear and not capable of 1/2" in steel which I do need.

--
*A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
.... It is safe to say that the tool you purchase to with the expectation
that it will love in a cupboard for 362 days a year, ...

That's a good idea - breed your own tools:-)

Colin Bignell

On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 19:25:13 -0000, "nightjar"
wrote:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
.... It is safe to say that the tool you purchase to with the expectation
that it will love in a cupboard for 362 days a year, ...

That's a good idea - breed your own tools:-)

Colin Bignell


Yes, but can you imagine giving birth to a circular saw? ;-)



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...
Doctor Evil wrote:
"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...

Really ought to say something about batteries and chargers(/cookers :-)
since this is a big factor wrt cordless tools and a lot of people don't
pay much attention to them.


The average DIYer is better off with mains drill with torque control for
driving. In most cases a socket is handy. Then no problem of batteries
going kaput and change the whole tool. Unfortunately these tools are
not
cheap, but something you may have for 20 plus years, so not that bad.
Mains
and battery must be viewed very differently, as mains doesn't date that
much
and last far longer and gives more power. And only go battery of you
really
need that away from the socket capability, which most DIYers don't

I must admit I haven't had a mains drill
with good enough speed and/or
torque control to use for driving. If you
can get one for the cost of a
cheap cordless then there's a good
argument to go for that.

Approx £90-100 Bosch. There may be other makes around.

However since you can get a Bosch
cordless (which I assume has a reasonable
battery and charger) for £75 - £100 then
if a good mains drill is similar price I'd say
go for the cordless, unless it's really only ever
for drilling a couple of holes once in a blue moon.

The problem with battery drills is that the batteries run down and have to
be expensively replaced. Most DIYers, once a project is done, leave the
drill in the cupboard for maybe years on end. A mains drill will always
work and has far more torque than a battery drill.

Once you start doing
any serious amount of work the lack
of hassle of fiddling about with
extension cables and untangling cables
when using a cordless is priceless.

That is project work which is another matter to normal DIY.

In my view a complete drill kit is:

1. mid range 12v drill./driver
2. £80 plus SDS drill with rotary stop
3. cheap 700w general pupose mains hammer drill.

Can't see the use of 3 if you've got 1 and 2:
I use a dW 14.4 (non-combi i.e. no hammer
action) with universal/cordless drill bits (£8 for set of
5 from sfx) with which I can drill everything short
of quarry tiles,

Masonry bits for hammering, if you don't you blunt them pronto.

and the SDS does the latter. The dW
is small and light enough for driving
too, although I previously used my lumpy
old PPPro (Ryobi) 18V combi for
that, and occasionally still use my 14.4V Site
(another B&Q rebadged Ryobi, also lumpy)
when I'm doing a lot of drilling and driving and
don't want to keep changing bits.

One drill for driving and drilling, without hammer.
One for masonry (SDS)
One general purpose main cheeapy (can be a £15 job). High speed for wood and
hammer if needed for light work.

All covered.



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"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...
John Rumm wrote:
John Stumbles wrote:

Mid range tools

Bosh (green bodied), Black & Decker, Skill, Wicks own brand (grey
bodied), Freud, DeWalt


??????


Which were you questioning? (DeWalt being in mid range?)

Yes, I thought they were pretty firmly in the Pro camp: certainly equiv
to Bosch blue rather than green.

I beg to differ. Rebadged B&D most of it.


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"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
John Stumbles wrote:

Which were you questioning? (DeWalt being in mid range?)


Yes, I thought they were pretty firmly in the Pro camp: certainly equiv
to Bosch blue rather than green.

That is certainly where their traditional image and market was, although
these days it seems that some of the better B&D kit has crept into the
low end DW range, hence my inclusion there.

Kress (Wickes) is firmly pro, and aimed at that market.



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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John Stumbles wrote:
I must admit I haven't had a mains drill with good enough speed and/or
torque control to use for driving.

I've got a fairly ancient B&D Tradesman which is excellent for screw
driving on its slowest speed. Only the one (same) slow speed in reverse
though. No torque control, but not a problem in practice - the speed is
slow enough to 'feel' when it's tight.

Could be this sort of drill isn't easily available these days - given
everyone wants cordless for DIY.

It's got a two speed gearbox as well as the electronic control, and the
only similar one in spec in the Screwfix cat is the DeWalt 505 at over 90
quid. The Bosch GSB13RE at 43 quid is variable speed and reversing, but
only one gear and not capable of 1/2" in steel which I do need.

Screwfix has about 6 drills all about the same.

The model I had in mind is the Bosch PSB750-2RPE which seems to be £99.99 in
most places. The P in the part number mean "Bosch Power Control" which has
settings for screwdrivering.

Other makers must do one of these.



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On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 20:11:15 -0000, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:




The problem with battery drills is that the batteries run down and have to
be expensively replaced. Most DIYers, once a project is done, leave the
drill in the cupboard for maybe years on end.

That's way too much of a sweeping statement.

A mains drill will always
work and has far more torque than a battery drill.

That's generally true.


Once you start doing
any serious amount of work the lack
of hassle of fiddling about with
extension cables and untangling cables
when using a cordless is priceless.

That is project work which is another matter to normal DIY.

But what is "normal DIY". We already covered the point that it's
different things to different people.




--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 20:11:15 -0000, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:




The problem with battery drills is that the batteries run down and have
to
be expensively replaced. Most DIYers, once a project is done, leave the
drill in the cupboard for maybe years on end.

That's way too much of a sweeping statement.

A mains drill will always
work and has far more torque than a battery drill.

That's generally true.


Once you start doing
any serious amount of work the lack
of hassle of fiddling about with
extension cables and untangling cables
when using a cordless is priceless.

That is project work which is another matter to normal DIY.

But what is "normal DIY". We already covered the point that it's
different things to different people.

Doing a large job, like ripping out the bathroom and replacing all, even
bath, tiles, lights, floor, etc, is a project. Replacing a basin or putting
up shelves is a very different. Light DIY vs heavy DIY. Most fall into the
former.



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The message
from "Doctor Evil" contains these words:

Doing a large job, like ripping out the bathroom and replacing all, even
bath, tiles, lights, floor, etc, is a project. Replacing a basin or putting
up shelves is a very different. Light DIY vs heavy DIY. Most fall into the
former.

It is all diy. Ripping out a bathroom is only minor work anyway. I
ripped out mine years ago so I could replace the floor and the minor
joists. Still haven't got round to replacing it yet (I use it as a
store). The jury rigged bathroom in the small bedroom next to it (also
on a new floor) functions adequately even if the plumbing is above the
floor. Meanwhile the new bathroom suite which I bought in an excess of
enthusiasm several years ago gathers dust.

--
Roger

"Roger" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "Doctor Evil" contains these words:

Doing a large job, like ripping out the bathroom and replacing all, even
bath, tiles, lights, floor, etc, is a project. Replacing a basin or
putting
up shelves is a very different. Light DIY vs heavy DIY. Most fall into
the
former.

It is all diy.

.............go away..............you don't say.....


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Jeff wrote:
wrote :-

, and torque slip sds vs those without.

Hmm , got a dewalt sds at work with a clutch, infuriating, only
possible use
is up a ladder or single handed

the purpose is to avoid physical injury, which is liable to happen with
sds if the bit jams. SDS use lower gearing and higher torques than trad
mains drills, and are a genuine risk.


NT

nightjar nightjar@ wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message
...

.... It is safe to say that the tool you purchase to with the expectation
that it will love in a cupboard for 362 days a year, ...


That's a good idea - breed your own tools:-)

Mine mutate. Well how else to explain why whenever I start a new job the
ever growing collection in the tool box are never the right ones.


--
David Clark

$message_body_include ="PLES RING IF AN RNSR IS REQIRD"

On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 21:39:44 -0000, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 20:11:15 -0000, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:



That is project work which is another matter to normal DIY.

But what is "normal DIY". We already covered the point that it's
different things to different people.

Doing a large job, like ripping out the bathroom and replacing all, even
bath, tiles, lights, floor, etc, is a project. Replacing a basin or putting
up shelves is a very different. Light DIY vs heavy DIY. Most fall into the
former.


I find those definitions way too limiting, so I think that it's a good
idea that the FAQ article will cover this.





--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

wrote :-
Jeff wrote:

Hmm , got a dewalt sds at work with a clutch, infuriating, only
possible use
is up a ladder or single handed

the purpose is to avoid physical injury, which is liable to happen with
sds if the bit jams. SDS use lower gearing and higher torques than trad
mains drills, and are a genuine risk.


NT

Jumping off a 6 foot wall is a serious risk, unless you are prepared for it
;-)...... My point is that in this case the drill is crippled by the clutch,
I would rather have a tool that lets me use its full power at my own risk
(subject to the above exceptions)

Regards Jeff

A nice contribution John, thanks very much for the effort. I haven't
read the follow-ups yet, so apologies if any of this has already been
mentioned.

Having read it all through and inserted some detailed comments below, my
overall impression is that it is very useful information, but would fit
better if presented in a more informal way. That should condensed it
somewhat too, and it could then be an excellent lead-in to a discussion
of which tools are needed for specific tasks (why should I want an
electric drill?), and which are specialist tools without which certain
tasks cannot realistically be achieved, eg Worktop jig and router.

Following that, a section on what to look for on specific tools would be
good. e.g. if you buy a router make sure it has dust extraction if you
ever want to use it indoors.

Maybe others will add these contributions.

Thanks again.

Phil

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 00:00:15 +0000, in uk.d-i-y John Rumm
wrote:

Following on from the frequent "discussions" that happen round these
parts regarding power tools and their selection, here is a first draft
of a potential FAQ section on power tool selection.

Please feel free to offer (constructive) criticism. Suggest any sections
you think I have missed, fill in any missing pros and cons, and (this
will be fun) add more brands to the categories at the end!

****

Choosing a power tool

Choice of power tool is a topic that comes up for discussion at regular
intervals on uk.d i y, which frequently generates long threads of
opinion and counter opinion! Much of this discussion seems to stem from
different peoples understanding of what "DIY" is all about, as well as
each person having often conflicting needs and expectations.

To help focus discussion, this section of the FAQ sets out some of the
various tool buying policies. If you use this to identify which
description most closely resembles your current need, you should be able
to solicit advice from the group that takes this need into
consideration, and will save you needing to wade through too many heated
debates!

What do *you* mean by DIY?
DIY will mean different things to different people. For some it will be
about saving money, for others it may be a relaxing hobby. It could be
as simple as occasionally erecting a shelf, or changing a tap washer.

.... or because you have been caught by cowboys before!

For others it could be as elaborate as building your own house! It is
safe to say that the tool you purchase to with the expectation that it
will love in a cupboard for 362 days a year, may well be very different
to the one that with which you indulge your hobby of fine furniture
making five days a week. Hence before deciding on much else it is
advisable to decide on what level of use you anticipate making of the tool.

Where can the beginner find them?
1) DIY centres like B&Q. 2) Tool shops which specialise in power tools
3) online

Class of tool:

There is a huge variety of power tools available from the general
purpose to the highly specialised. Almost every DIY shop will not only
stock a selection of well know brands, they will often offer their own
range of "own brand" tools, and prices for similar looking tools can
range from as little as £5 to well over £500. Understanding the
manufacturing and distribution model for these tools can go a long way
to help understand this range.
Budget tools

At the cheaper end of the market, the majority of tools are manufactured
in the far east at low prices and then "branded" for the eventual
retailer. Tools in this category can often be purchased for very small
initial cost. Typically however since access to the original equipment
manufacturer (OEM) is limited, getting any after sales service and
spares for these tools can be difficult or impossible. Often the
retailer may offer more attractive warranty terms to mitigate some of
these limitations. So if a tool breaks during its warranty period, then
the retailer will simply replace it. However, after this time the tool
will need to be discarded

(if it breaks)

and a replacement sought. Note also that you
may need to factor in the cost of your time should frequent trips to the
shop be needed to acquire a warranty replacement.

High End tools

At the high end, tools are often built and assembled by factories owned
by the brand maker, or built for them by OEMs to the brands
specification. There will be a service and support network that will
enable tools to be repaired, and spare parts obtained. Needless to say
this backup and support has to be paid for in higher tool prices.

Examples of these makes?

Mid Range tools

The mid range can be even more confusing since it can encompass tools
from both categories above €“ often with the range of tools available
from the same maker taking products from both sources.

Maker?? should that be 'supplier'?

Class of dealer

Many tools are available from a wide range of sources including the big
name DIY shop, to the specialised independent tool supplier. There are
cases where a average quality tool purchased from an above average
retailer will offer some of the benefits and after sales care that
usually only comes with much higher price tools.

Do you mean you can get the exact same tool from these different
sources, or just the same kind of tool, but made by different
manufacturers?

The purchasing factors

There are a large number of factors that can be taken into account when
making any buying decision; some are obvious like features of the
product and its price, but some are more subtle. For any given purchase
you will need to weigh up these factors. They may often be different for
each tool you buy.

1) Tool features
2) Purchase Price
3) Availability of spares and support
4) Tool quality (and quality of results achievable with it)
5) Total cost of ownership (factoring in your time to buy and maintain
the tool, cost of spares etc)
6) Comfort of use

e.g weight, noise, mess (dust collection or not)

7) Speed of operation
8) Availability of suppliers (and service where applicable)
9) How much you anticipate the tool will be used
10) How long you need it to last
11) Brand image


Buying policies:

The disposable tool

This is an easy one! Sometimes a tool is needed for a specific job and
then that is it. Chances that it will be used again are slim. Often
hiring a tool is a good way to meet this need, but that will not always
be cost effective or practical if you are going to need it on an ad hoc
basis spread over several weeks.

Good point. Perhaps mention 'Hired Tool' in the 'class' list above? Also
hiring is a very good way of trying out a type of tool you are not
familiar with.

In this category tools from the cheaper end of the market can be ideal,
often you are not too concerned what the life expectancy of the tool
will be, so long as it gets the job done. If it lasts longer then that
is a bonus.

Also a good way of evaluating the tool class. e.g if you have never used
an electric drill, *ever*, there is much to be said for buying nothing
more than a B&Q cheapie.

Pros

1) Can be cost effective compared to hiring
2) Ready availability of suitable tools from most DIY shops

actually that can be a huge and totally confusing range so far as the
newbie is concerned!

Cons

1) The quality of the tool compared to a hired one may be inferior

Yes, hire tools are usually top of range - or were when purchased. You
can get some clapped ones if you don't watch out.

2) Tool may be less comfortable to use, achieve lower standard of
results, and take longer
3) You either need to store or otherwise dispose of the tool when the
job is done

The "buy several" approach

The own brand tool may not offer the reliability and performance of a
more expensive tool. However the price is often such that you can buy
more than one of them for the price of a better tool. Should the tool

Mention that this is a pretty recent phenomenon?

fail you simply discard it and switch to its replacement and carry on
working. Note also the same policy can be applied to any type of tool in
any price range if it is important that you can carry on working, not
just the "DIY shop special", Even expensive tools bought for business
use may fall into this category.

Pros

1) If a tool fails you have an immediate replacement with no
interruption to your work

Do you mean you buy duplicates in the first instance? Surely not.

2) You can have several tools "on the go at once". With things like
drills this may equate to faster working since you will not need to stop
to swap between say a drill bit and a screwdriver bit, just pick up a
different tool.

Yes, and very useful too, but this is actually the reason for buying
duplicates. But then they are not really duplicates, you bought them
*because* you wanted that convenience.

3)

Cons

1) The money spent on two tools may buy one of better quality, which may
outlast the two cheaper ones, give better results, and be nicer to use.
2) You need more storage space.
3)

I'm not sure about this listing of pros/cons. It may be more concise to
merge them into one paragraph. Especially if the con is simply the
inverse of the pro.


The mid range choice

This is the hardest range to purchase from, because there is a huge
choice, and it is not possible to make blanket purchasing decisions
based on brand for example. Each brand will have good and not so good
products in this class. Buying from this range is often what the ad men
call an "aspirational purchase" (i.e. you would like something better,
but budget dictates you buy something similar but cheaper!).

Pros
1) These tools can be well suited to the less intensive user
2) Results and quality of work that can be produced will often be higher
than with lower end tools
3) After sales service and support may be available
4) Ready availability
5) Lots of competition keeps prices low.

Cons
1) May not survive intensive use
2) Quality, comfort of use, speed etc, may still be lacking
3) After sales service and support may not be available.

The "top quality" approach

Sometimes only the best will do. If the work you want to do demands the
highest quality of finish, or you want the utmost comfort and ease of
use from your tools then this might be the approach for you. You can
expect tools in this category to stand up to intensive every day use,
even for "trade" purposes. Reliability should also be better than the
other groups, and spares and after sales service should be readily
available. Ideally suited to the serious DIYer, the tradesman and
craftsman.

Pros
1) Suitable for intensive hard work, including continuous running.
2) Highest quality results
3) Smoothest operation resulting in good finish and low operator fatigue
4) Good finesse of control
5) Service, support and spares, available.
6) More able to take "abuse"
7) More operator "pleasure" in operation.

Cons:
1) Tools are more expensive
2) Also more likely to be stolen if not carefully looked after
3) Even when repair services are available there may be down time
waiting for repairs to be carried out.



Which brand is which?

OK, you have covered this now.

Identifying which of the above groups a tool belongs to is not always
straight forward. Many people will not even agree which is which. Some
brands may make tools in several distinct categories, (which may or may
not be distinguished in some way). Many brands will also acquire others
so as to increase their range either up or down market without needing
to reposition the whole brand in the marketplace.

Budget brand tools:

NuTool, JCB, Many DIY shop "own brand tools", Power Devil

Mid range tools

Bosh (green bodied), Black & Decker, Skill, Wicks own brand (grey
bodied), Freud, DeWalt

High End

Makita, Trend, Bosh (blue bodied), Hitachi, Festool, Fein, Lamello,
Freud, Elu, Metabo, DeWalt


****

Phil
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On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 09:33:35 +0000 (GMT), in uk.d-i-y "Dave Plowman
(News)" wrote:

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
The average DIYer is better off with mains drill with torque control for
driving. In most cases a socket is handy. Then no problem of batteries
going kaput and change the whole tool. Unfortunately these tools are not
cheap, but something you may have for 20 plus years, so not that bad.

Now that *is* sense. Cordless drills seem very attractive at first
thought, but in practice for intermittent DIY use are likely to be a pain.
And at about the same money, a mains drill will out perform a cordless one
every time.

..... for drilling. But a cordless is invaluable for screw driving.

Phil
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On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 11:58:20 -0000, in uk.d-i-y "Jeff"
wrote:


Doctor Evil wrote :-

All SDSs have a quick change chuck. I assume you mean quick change of the
bits.

No - I mean quick change of chuck - you can swap from sds to keyless with no
tools in seconds - very versatile, and they come in blue and green flavours
too

Don't know if its just my cheapie, but once you swap the sds chuck for a
keyless, you loose the hammer. This means there is not much point if you
have a normal electric drill as well.

Phil
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