After yet another power cut whilst I was out, I think I need to put UPSes on
some critical items, namely the fridge and freezer, certain lighting and the
heating. The cuts are never more than 4 hours as then I could claim
compensation so in theory the Belkin range seem to fit the bill.

Has anybody used these and have comments, or can recommend another brand ?

Mike wrote:
After yet another power cut whilst I was out, I think I need to put UPSes on
some critical items, namely the fridge and freezer, certain lighting and the
heating. The cuts are never more than 4 hours as then I could claim
compensation so in theory the Belkin range seem to fit the bill.

In that case, you certainly don't need a UPS on the fridge/freezer, in 4h
they won't appreciably warm.

As you need to budget for the fridge and freezer motors coming on together,
you are looking at somewhere around 3KW surge, which is quite a large one.

What I'd do is to place the UPS on a FCU, and run a low-load circuit
from the output (another FCU?).

Now, depending on what you are using for lighting (if you've got 2Kw
of lights, or you've gone all energy saving, answers are different),
I'd then connect the existing lighting circuit to this, and attach a few
2A sockets to this.
The boiler goes into one of the 2A sockets.

This then lets you (for example) plug a TV into a 2A socket, if you want to,
or to add a generator (add a switch for the UPS to take input from mains
or generator.

You may even want to consider if you really want the boiler on the maintained
circuit.
In 4h you're probably not going to get that cold.

It might be better if you can have a switch to pick between mains and
maintained.
Unless you've got unlimited battery, you want to be able to ideally
start off with as low a load as possible, then add load to it, rather
than (for example) coming back 3h into a power cut and finding that all
the lights have just about drained the batteries, and you now can't watch
TV.

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Batterys are an issue.
They last at best 5 years.

If you insist on maintaining everything, you're probably looking at
around 400W for 4h, that's 800Wh, or some 300Ah at 12V.

Maybe 40-80 quid a year for battery replacement.

Not sure I want to maintain everything. But certainly the 'essentials'. I
could live with £40 a year in batteries though.

Any thoughts on the best products to use ?

Mike wrote:

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Batterys are an issue.
They last at best 5 years.

If you insist on maintaining everything, you're probably looking at
around 400W for 4h, that's 800Wh, or some 300Ah at 12V.

Maybe 40-80 quid a year for battery replacement.

Not sure I want to maintain everything. But certainly the 'essentials'. I
could live with ?40 a year in batteries though.

It's probably more like 200 every 5 years.

Any thoughts on the best products to use ?

Not really.
I haven't looked at appropriate products, due to being able to make do
with a BEST 600 UPS, fitted with 4 car batteries at a tenner each
from the scrapyard.

I'd ask over on alt.solar.photovoltaic, alt.energy.homepower, or
alt.energy renewable.
Maybe look at any FAQs.

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...

Any thoughts on the best products to use ?

Not really.
I haven't looked at appropriate products, due to being able to make do
with a BEST 600 UPS, fitted with 4 car batteries at a tenner each
from the scrapyard.

Searched for this on Google and only found links to the batteries used by
it.

Mike wrote:

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...

Any thoughts on the best products to use ?

Not really.
I haven't looked at appropriate products, due to being able to make do
with a BEST 600 UPS, fitted with 4 car batteries at a tenner each
from the scrapyard.

Searched for this on Google and only found links to the batteries used by
it.

It's not designed to take car batteries, and is a several year old model
that was thrown out as it wasn't working (dead batteries).
I added a fan, and a slightly beefier charging circuit.

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Mike wrote:

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...

Any thoughts on the best products to use ?

Not really.
I haven't looked at appropriate products, due to being able to make do
with a BEST 600 UPS, fitted with 4 car batteries at a tenner each
from the scrapyard.

Searched for this on Google and only found links to the batteries used
by
it.

It's not designed to take car batteries, and is a several year old model
that was thrown out as it wasn't working (dead batteries).
I added a fan, and a slightly beefier charging circuit.

Sounds like you recommend a brew-it-yourself solution then ? :-)

Mike wrote:

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Mike wrote:

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...

Any thoughts on the best products to use ?

Not really.
I haven't looked at appropriate products, due to being able to make do
with a BEST 600 UPS, fitted with 4 car batteries at a tenner each
from the scrapyard.

Searched for this on Google and only found links to the batteries used
by
it.

It's not designed to take car batteries, and is a several year old model
that was thrown out as it wasn't working (dead batteries).
I added a fan, and a slightly beefier charging circuit.

Sounds like you recommend a brew-it-yourself solution then ? :-)

In some ways yes.
However.

Many UPSs are designed for short term use.
For example, some have heatsinks that are only designed to put up with
a few minutes use at nominal load, as the tiny batteries put in it will
have discharged by then.

So you've essentially got to make sure that all the components can handle
extended loads.

Then you've got the problem of what happens if the microprocessor in the
UPS decides that the large batteries are a 'fault', and won't use them,
or the charging circuit overheats, or only charges to the original
capacity, or ....

For example, one problem with my current setup is that it takes a week to
charge after a full discharge.

And then you've got the whole issue of messing around with electronics
that can generate enough power to kill, even when unplugged.

DIY can be appropriate - but only if you know enough to safely DIY it.

There are canned solutions, but they tend to be expensive. The solar and
other groups I mentioned would probably have some ideas on the easiest
way to do it.

(If you manage to kill yourself or burn down your house as a consequence
of this posting, I reserve the right to point and laugh).

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Sounds like you recommend a brew-it-yourself solution then ? :-)

In some ways yes.
However.

Many UPSs are designed for short term use.
For example, some have heatsinks that are only designed to put up with
a few minutes use at nominal load, as the tiny batteries put in it will
have discharged by then.

So you've essentially got to make sure that all the components can handle
extended loads.

Then you've got the problem of what happens if the microprocessor in the
UPS decides that the large batteries are a 'fault', and won't use them,
or the charging circuit overheats, or only charges to the original
capacity, or ....

For example, one problem with my current setup is that it takes a week to
charge after a full discharge.

And then you've got the whole issue of messing around with electronics
that can generate enough power to kill, even when unplugged.

DIY can be appropriate - but only if you know enough to safely DIY it.

There are canned solutions, but they tend to be expensive. The solar and
other groups I mentioned would probably have some ideas on the easiest
way to do it.

Will do.


(If you manage to kill yourself or burn down your house as a consequence
of this posting, I reserve the right to point and laugh).

Well I've designed a kW audio amp before and that could fry you without
thinking about it.

In article , Mike
writes

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...

Any thoughts on the best products to use ?

Not really.
I haven't looked at appropriate products, due to being able to make do
with a BEST 600 UPS, fitted with 4 car batteries at a tenner each
from the scrapyard.

Searched for this on Google and only found links to the batteries used by
it.



If you want serious batteries for the purpose then have a search through
exidepower, they do the proper high capacity ones, not that cheap but
much better than car batteries.

But why hasn't the O/P had a go at the supply company as to why he has
such a seeming high number of supply interruption's?....
--
Tony Sayer

On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 22:42:02 -0000, Mike wrote:

Unfortunately my freezer begs to differ :-) Things got a little
frosty.

If your freezer warmed up to such an extent that the temp rose at more
than 1C/hr then there is something drastically wrong with it or it's
very old and it may well pay to get it replaced. The average freezer
will normally still be cold enough without power for 12hrs or more
provided you don't open it.

Running a fridge/freezer of a normal computer UPS might be tricky. The
induction motors used need 2 to 3 times their running power to start,
this may well cause the UPS to trip due to overload. Then of course
with big batteries the up time isn't very long. My 700VA UPS can
supply 150W (about that of fridge) for 20mins at best.

A small (2 to 4 kVA) generator out back is the easiest solution but be
aware of the all the implications of connecting a generator to your
normal house wiring. Requirements for fail safe isolation of incoming
mains supply, earthing arrangements etc.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Mike wrote:

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Sounds like you recommend a brew-it-yourself solution then ? :-)

In some ways yes.
However.

Many UPSs are designed for short term use.
For example, some have heatsinks that are only designed to put up with
a few minutes use at nominal load, as the tiny batteries put in it will
have discharged by then.
snip
Will do.


(If you manage to kill yourself or burn down your house as a consequence
of this posting, I reserve the right to point and laugh).

Well I've designed a kW audio amp before and that could fry you without
thinking about it.

So what's the problem?
All you need is a 50Hz sine-wave oscillator, some lead-acid batteries, and
a charger

Actually inverters are nasty to design, because you never know what
somebodies going to plug in.
For example, a large series universal motor being repeatedly switched
from backwards to forwards, ...


If you've got the skills, then you can take a good quality inverter, and a
largish 3-stage charger, and connect it to a bunch of batteries.
3 stage battery charger circuit

tony sayer wrote:
In article , Mike
writes

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...

Any thoughts on the best products to use ?

Not really.
I haven't looked at appropriate products, due to being able to make do
with a BEST 600 UPS, fitted with 4 car batteries at a tenner each
from the scrapyard.

Searched for this on Google and only found links to the batteries used by
it.


If you want serious batteries for the purpose then have a search through
exidepower, they do the proper high capacity ones, not that cheap but
much better than car batteries.

Not at 10 quid per car battery, and less than that if I replace with an
equal mass of old battery.
(it's free money for the scrappy, the batteries are just shrink-wrapped
after being emptied, and sent off for recycling)

In article , Ian
Stirling writes
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Mike
writes

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...

Any thoughts on the best products to use ?

Not really.
I haven't looked at appropriate products, due to being able to make do
with a BEST 600 UPS, fitted with 4 car batteries at a tenner each
from the scrapyard.

Searched for this on Google and only found links to the batteries used by
it.


If you want serious batteries for the purpose then have a search through
exidepower, they do the proper high capacity ones, not that cheap but
much better than car batteries.

Not at 10 quid per car battery, and less than that if I replace with an
equal mass of old battery.
(it's free money for the scrappy, the batteries are just shrink-wrapped
after being emptied, and sent off for recycling)

Suppose capacity and dependability aren't in the mindset
--
Tony Sayer

tony sayer wrote:
In article , Ian
Stirling writes
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Mike
writes

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...

Any thoughts on the best products to use ?

Not really.
I haven't looked at appropriate products, due to being able to make do
with a BEST 600 UPS, fitted with 4 car batteries at a tenner each
from the scrapyard.

Searched for this on Google and only found links to the batteries used by
it.


If you want serious batteries for the purpose then have a search through
exidepower, they do the proper high capacity ones, not that cheap but
much better than car batteries.

Not at 10 quid per car battery, and less than that if I replace with an
equal mass of old battery.
(it's free money for the scrappy, the batteries are just shrink-wrapped
after being emptied, and sent off for recycling)

Suppose capacity and dependability aren't in the mindset

Pile of batteries, plus battery tester.
Two to three times the real need of batteries connected in series/parallel.
Occasional observation of balance under load.
Works for me.

(You can cause all sorts of problems with imbalanced battery packs, but
this is only two batteries in series, so it's not too terrible.
And the batteries being relatively slowly discarged is being much nicer
to them than in their former life where they are asked to provide 100A
surges.

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
But why hasn't the O/P had a go at the supply company as to why he has
such a seeming high number of supply interruption's?....


That was me and somebody in an earlier thread pointed me at the regulations
which allow up to 4 breaks of less than 4 hours per annum without
compensation. Guess what - last year I had four breaks, each of about 3 to
3.5 hours.

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
Not at 10 quid per car battery, and less than that if I replace with an
equal mass of old battery.
(it's free money for the scrappy, the batteries are just shrink-wrapped
after being emptied, and sent off for recycling)

Suppose capacity and dependability aren't in the mindset


I think at £10 per battery, capacity is roughly proportional to how much
space one has spare.

And I've got a lot of barn free :-)

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.com...
On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 22:42:02 -0000, Mike wrote:

Unfortunately my freezer begs to differ :-) Things got a little
frosty.

If your freezer warmed up to such an extent that the temp rose at more
than 1C/hr then there is something drastically wrong with it or it's
very old and it may well pay to get it replaced. The average freezer
will normally still be cold enough without power for 12hrs or more
provided you don't open it.

It's brand new but I only run it at a few degrees below zero. Have turned
it down further for now but don't like doing this.


Running a fridge/freezer of a normal computer UPS might be tricky. The
induction motors used need 2 to 3 times their running power to start,
this may well cause the UPS to trip due to overload. Then of course
with big batteries the up time isn't very long. My 700VA UPS can
supply 150W (about that of fridge) for 20mins at best.

Yes. Somebody else mentioned this problem. I am beginning to think a large
invertor and a couple of car batteries as suggested by Ian Stirling.


A small (2 to 4 kVA) generator out back is the easiest solution but be
aware of the all the implications of connecting a generator to your
normal house wiring. Requirements for fail safe isolation of incoming
mains supply, earthing arrangements etc.

I don't think I'd want this coming on automatically, and the wiring would
need major alterations. Original idea was for individual UPSes between the
mains socket and key appliances but this idea doesn't seem practical apart
from for the heating.

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
(If you manage to kill yourself or burn down your house as a
consequence
of this posting, I reserve the right to point and laugh).

Well I've designed a kW audio amp before and that could fry you without
thinking about it.

So what's the problem?
All you need is a 50Hz sine-wave oscillator, some lead-acid batteries, and
a charger

Actually inverters are nasty to design, because you never know what
somebodies going to plug in.
For example, a large series universal motor being repeatedly switched
from backwards to forwards, ...

And the load keeps changing unlike the amplifier. But I've already sketched
out what I think I'm going to build. Next stop the scrappy for some
batteries.

In article , Ian
Stirling writes
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Ian
Stirling writes
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Mike
writes

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...

Any thoughts on the best products to use ?

Not really.
I haven't looked at appropriate products, due to being able to make do
with a BEST 600 UPS, fitted with 4 car batteries at a tenner each
from the scrapyard.

Searched for this on Google and only found links to the batteries used by
it.


If you want serious batteries for the purpose then have a search through
exidepower, they do the proper high capacity ones, not that cheap but
much better than car batteries.

Not at 10 quid per car battery, and less than that if I replace with an
equal mass of old battery.
(it's free money for the scrappy, the batteries are just shrink-wrapped
after being emptied, and sent off for recycling)

Suppose capacity and dependability aren't in the mindset

Pile of batteries, plus battery tester.
Two to three times the real need of batteries connected in series/parallel.
Occasional observation of balance under load.
Works for me.

(You can cause all sorts of problems with imbalanced battery packs, but
this is only two batteries in series, so it's not too terrible.
And the batteries being relatively slowly discarged is being much nicer
to them than in their former life where they are asked to provide 100A
surges.

Yes, but as these are from the "scrappie" won't they be shagged out
anyway?. Now your asking them to supply around 100-300 odd watts to keep
a freezer going?. Thats some 10 amps or so continuous load or
thereabouts?....
--
Tony Sayer

tony sayer wrote:
In article , Ian
Stirling writes
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Ian
Stirling writes
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Mike
writes

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...

Any thoughts on the best products to use ?

Not really.
I haven't looked at appropriate products, due to being able to make do
with a BEST 600 UPS, fitted with 4 car batteries at a tenner each
from the scrapyard.

Searched for this on Google and only found links to the batteries used by
it.


If you want serious batteries for the purpose then have a search through
exidepower, they do the proper high capacity ones, not that cheap but
much better than car batteries.

Not at 10 quid per car battery, and less than that if I replace with an
equal mass of old battery.
(it's free money for the scrappy, the batteries are just shrink-wrapped
after being emptied, and sent off for recycling)

Suppose capacity and dependability aren't in the mindset

Pile of batteries, plus battery tester.
Two to three times the real need of batteries connected in series/parallel.
Occasional observation of balance under load.
Works for me.

(You can cause all sorts of problems with imbalanced battery packs, but
this is only two batteries in series, so it's not too terrible.
And the batteries being relatively slowly discarged is being much nicer
to them than in their former life where they are asked to provide 100A
surges.

Yes, but as these are from the "scrappie" won't they be shagged out
anyway?. Now your asking them to supply around 100-300 odd watts to keep
a freezer going?. Thats some 10 amps or so continuous load or
thereabouts?....

Most people scrap the car, without removing the battery.
So, many of these batteries are in fact fairly new.

I don't run the freezer off them.

It's used for critical devices - the server, sky digibox, TV, a few lights,
ADSL modem, security cameras.

After about half an hour, I tend to start shedding load, and turning
stuff off unless it's really needed, which might include the video
if I was watching something, as the power cut is fairly likely to persist.
Eventually, from about half battery, I've got about 20-40 hours of
couple of lights+ internet (on the laptop).

If the fridge/freezer needs to be run, then the generator will get plugged in
to charge the batteries at the same time, as the UPS isn't really up to
starting the motors.

Mike wrote:

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
(If you manage to kill yourself or burn down your house as a
consequence
of this posting, I reserve the right to point and laugh).

Well I've designed a kW audio amp before and that could fry you without
thinking about it.

So what's the problem?
All you need is a 50Hz sine-wave oscillator, some lead-acid batteries, and
a charger

Actually inverters are nasty to design, because you never know what
somebodies going to plug in.
For example, a large series universal motor being repeatedly switched
from backwards to forwards, ...

And the load keeps changing unlike the amplifier. But I've already sketched
out what I think I'm going to build. Next stop the scrappy for some
batteries.

A car 'immersion heater' in a jamjar of water can make a usefull load to
test batteries with.

Mike wrote:

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.com...
On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 22:42:02 -0000, Mike wrote:

Unfortunately my freezer begs to differ :-) Things got a little
frosty.

If your freezer warmed up to such an extent that the temp rose at more
than 1C/hr then there is something drastically wrong with it or it's
very old and it may well pay to get it replaced. The average freezer
will normally still be cold enough without power for 12hrs or more
provided you don't open it.

It's brand new but I only run it at a few degrees below zero. Have turned
it down further for now but don't like doing this.

Food will spoil fairly rapidly at this temperature. -5C and -20C are rather
different.

My freezer has grown a couple of slabs of 4" insulation on each side,
which does a fair bit for the insulation.
(do make sure that you don't cover any heat exchange surfaces)

snip
I don't think I'd want this coming on automatically, and the wiring would
need major alterations. Original idea was for individual UPSes between the
mains socket and key appliances but this idea doesn't seem practical apart
from for the heating.

It may be fairly minor.
If the lighting ring is adequate for the loads you want to use, and you
are confident that your system is reliable enough to run 24*7.
Doing it ideally is more complex.

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
It's brand new but I only run it at a few degrees below zero. Have
turned
it down further for now but don't like doing this.

Food will spoil fairly rapidly at this temperature. -5C and -20C are
rather
different.

Freezing some foods that deeply spoils them. I tend to try to keep food in
there only for a week or so.


My freezer has grown a couple of slabs of 4" insulation on each side,
which does a fair bit for the insulation.

It's the top rated Electrolux integrated unit and as far as I can tell it's
mostly insulation anyway. A little disappointed at how much less space
there is inside compared with my last model.

On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 20:48:04 -0000, Mike wrote:

It's brand new but I only run it at a few degrees below zero.

Food safety wise a freezer should be below -16C. There is a reasonable
probablity that some organisiums can still reproduce at warmer temps.
We run ours at -24C.

I don't think I'd want this coming on automatically, and the wiring
would need major alterations.

No major changes to the wiring just a fail safe change over contactor
in the meter tails and installation of a good local earth. The complex
bit is the auto start/stop logic. You don't want the genney firing up
for a 1s cut unless you have say 2 or 3 such outages in a couple of
mins say. How ever if the outage lasts 30s the chances are the power
has really gone so start up, then when it comes back how long to wait
before switching back and stoping the genny...

Original idea was for individual UPSes between the mains socket and
key appliances but this idea doesn't seem practical apart from for
the heating.

The only things that we have here that really object to haveing the
power removed without warning are the computers, they are on a UPS.
Everything else can take outages without agro and essential things
like cooking, light and heat have alternatives that don't require
power. A generator is on the shopping list to run the freezers and CH
system and maybe a few lights but that will (initially) be connected
in with extension leads rather than a change over switch.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On 06 Feb 2005 23:04:36 GMT, Ian Stirling wrote:

If the lighting ring is adequate for the loads you want to use, and
you are confident that your system is reliable enough to run 24*7.

Lighting ring? Most houses don't have a lighting ring it's just a long
spur looping in/out from each fitting.

Doing it ideally is more complex.

Not so much "ideally" as safely. Once you connect a generator to any,
normal, permenant wiring you need a fail safe change over method and a
good local earth.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 23:36:23 -0000, Mike wrote:

I was going to use some of those gold coloured power resistors.

The colour isn't important but their wattage rating is...

Any idea what voltage drop at what current shows a car battery is or
isn't worth using ?

Take a look through http://www.batteryuniversity.com. Everything you
wanted to know about rechargeable batteries but where to afraid to
ask. Open circuit anything less than 2v/cell is doubtful. IMHO under a
load of 10 to 20A for 10s or so the terminal voltage shouldn't drop
below 12v and preferably remain above 12.6v. Note 15A @ 12.6v is 189W
so take heed of the wattage rating of your less than 1 ohm resistor...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.com...
On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 20:48:04 -0000, Mike wrote:

It's brand new but I only run it at a few degrees below zero.

Food safety wise a freezer should be below -16C. There is a reasonable
probablity that some organisiums can still reproduce at warmer temps.
We run ours at -24C.

I don't think I'd want this coming on automatically, and the wiring
would need major alterations.

No major changes to the wiring just a fail safe change over contactor
in the meter tails and installation of a good local earth.

I think it has to be more than that. Circuits like cooker, immersion
heater, computers and so on would all need to be excluded from the generator
feed. Essentially one would need two consumer units - backed up and not
backed up.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.com...
On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 23:36:23 -0000, Mike wrote:

I was going to use some of those gold coloured power resistors.

The colour isn't important but their wattage rating is...

Yes :-) Just gave the colour so that people would recognise them. The
green ones cannot take such a high load and are slightly inductive.


Any idea what voltage drop at what current shows a car battery is or
isn't worth using ?

Take a look through http://www.batteryuniversity.com. Everything you
wanted to know about rechargeable batteries but where to afraid to
ask. Open circuit anything less than 2v/cell is doubtful. IMHO under a
load of 10 to 20A for 10s or so the terminal voltage shouldn't drop
below 12v and preferably remain above 12.6v. Note 15A @ 12.6v is 189W
so take heed of the wattage rating of your less than 1 ohm resistor...

Just what I was after. I'll wire this lot up into a small box with two
leads. Just hope our local scappy doesn't mind a few sparks while I test
what he's got.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On 06 Feb 2005 23:04:36 GMT, Ian Stirling wrote:

If the lighting ring is adequate for the loads you want to use, and
you are confident that your system is reliable enough to run 24*7.

Lighting ring? Most houses don't have a lighting ring it's just a long
spur looping in/out from each fitting.

I know, I was more meaning 'any low-power circuit', I don't do house
electrics often enough.


Doing it ideally is more complex.

Not so much "ideally" as safely. Once you connect a generator to any,
normal, permenant wiring you need a fail safe change over method and a
good local earth.

You don't need a complex automated one though, with a UPS (the UPS ground
must of course be earthed, and preferably have a RCD on the output),
a socket for the generator output, and one for the mains will work, with
plug being moved manually.

Mike wrote:

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.com...
On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 23:36:23 -0000, Mike wrote:

I was going to use some of those gold coloured power resistors.

The colour isn't important but their wattage rating is...

Yes :-) Just gave the colour so that people would recognise them. The
green ones cannot take such a high load and are slightly inductive.

I've got a 500W green one.
snip
Just what I was after. I'll wire this lot up into a small box with two
leads. Just hope our local scappy doesn't mind a few sparks while I test
what he's got.

Good luck.
That's why I like the immersion heater, it's about the right rating, and
very cheap.
(http://www.whdirect.com/ had them for a pound)

On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 10:24:00 -0000, Mike wrote:

I think it has to be more than that. Circuits like cooker,
immersion heater, computers and so on would all need to be excluded
from the generator feed.

Why? Pull to much for the gnerator and its protection trips. To avoid
such "accidents" trip the MCBs or pull the fuses for the heavy loads.
Computers are via a UPS anyway...

Essentially one would need two consumer units - backed up and not
backed up.

That would be nice but is not essential. Of course the maintained
circuits would use "chinese" 13A plugs/sockets so that normal devices
couldn't be plugged in.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 10:26:53 -0000, Mike wrote:

Just what I was after. I'll wire this lot up into a small box with
two leads. Just hope our local scappy doesn't mind a few sparks
while I test what he's got.

Add a heftly rated switch so you don't run the risk of splating molten
lead over yourself as you connect disconnect the load.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 10:26:53 -0000, Mike wrote:

Just what I was after. I'll wire this lot up into a small box with
two leads. Just hope our local scappy doesn't mind a few sparks
while I test what he's got.

Add a heftly rated switch so you don't run the risk of splating molten
lead over yourself as you connect disconnect the load.

Just turning off the inverter first should work.

On 08 Feb 2005 11:28:27 GMT, Ian Stirling wrote:

Just what I was after. I'll wire this lot up into a small box
with two leads. Just hope our local scappy doesn't mind a few
sparks while I test what he's got.

Add a heftly rated switch so you don't run the risk of splating
molten lead over yourself as you connect disconnect the load.

Just turning off the inverter first should work.

Eh? What invertor? We are talking about a box with BFO resistor in it
to take to the scrappy to check out the batteries he has. Before
purchasing same for use with the invertor/UPS at home...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On 08 Feb 2005 11:28:27 GMT, Ian Stirling wrote:

Just what I was after. I'll wire this lot up into a small box
with two leads. Just hope our local scappy doesn't mind a few
sparks while I test what he's got.

Add a heftly rated switch so you don't run the risk of splating
molten lead over yourself as you connect disconnect the load.

Just turning off the inverter first should work.

Eh? What invertor? We are talking about a box with BFO resistor in it
to take to the scrappy to check out the batteries he has. Before
purchasing same for use with the invertor/UPS at home...

Oh, right.
I thought you meant in service.
Anyway, I wouldn't worry about 20A.
Over 50A or so, yes, you need some sort of disconnect, and over 100A,
it's practically vital.