Having nearly completed work on the house to SWMBO's satisfaction (yes,
yes, I know it'll never actually be finished, but she doesn't)....

I have been allocated a room as 'mine'...about 4m by 3m. I intend to use
this for various things, some of which are already happening but only in
an ad hoc fashion.

The room will usually have 2 or 3 PCs in it, running to a KVM and
monitor/keyboard/etc. plus one of the house printers. It is also used to
store light tools (PC/electronics etc.) and stocks of paper/toner, plus
boxes of components. These are in high metal shelving.

I have one side of the room (3m approx) for a 'bench'. I'm not after a
heavy workbench here, but somewhere to use the PCs, work on PCs and
other electronics, and generally fix things. It should incorporate
storage.

The question is...what to use for a bench. I don't want anything
elaborate, so I was thinking of something like some kitchen units and a
piece of worktop. I need to be able to get cables 'up the back' which
might complicate it. There is also a radiator running the length of this
wall, unfortunately.

I really have to use this wall, because of the other 3:

* One has a chimney breast in the middle of it.
* One has the door in it, and the cupboard with the mains
isolator/meter/consumer units - not movable.
* One is a bay window.

So, any ideas and actual experiences appreciated....!

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!

On 4 Jan 2005 23:34:23 GMT, "Bob Eager" wrote:

Having nearly completed work on the house to SWMBO's satisfaction (yes,
yes, I know it'll never actually be finished, but she doesn't)....

I have been allocated a room as 'mine'...about 4m by 3m. I intend to use
this for various things, some of which are already happening but only in
an ad hoc fashion.

Reward indeed.



The room will usually have 2 or 3 PCs in it, running to a KVM and
monitor/keyboard/etc. plus one of the house printers. It is also used to
store light tools (PC/electronics etc.) and stocks of paper/toner, plus
boxes of components. These are in high metal shelving.

I have one side of the room (3m approx) for a 'bench'. I'm not after a
heavy workbench here, but somewhere to use the PCs, work on PCs and
other electronics, and generally fix things. It should incorporate
storage.

The question is...what to use for a bench. I don't want anything
elaborate, so I was thinking of something like some kitchen units and a
piece of worktop. I need to be able to get cables 'up the back' which
might complicate it. There is also a radiator running the length of this
wall, unfortunately.

I really have to use this wall, because of the other 3:

* One has a chimney breast in the middle of it.
* One has the door in it, and the cupboard with the mains
isolator/meter/consumer units - not movable.
* One is a bay window.

So, any ideas and actual experiences appreciated....!

I've done something roughly like this for my study.

I made my own cabinets, approximately to the dimensions of kitchen
base and top cabinets and used kitchen type doors for them. THe
cupboards have a service space behind (as do most that you buy), so
it's easy to run cables.

I didn't use legs or a kick board on the cabinets but arranged the
cabinet to be just clear of floor level by attaching some spacers of
about 6mm below. With this arrangement, the worktop ends up at
approximately standard desk height.

I have a large 21" monitor and the solution to accomodate that was to
put it into a corner between adjoining walls and with worktop and
cupboard runs on each. There is a section of worktop joined to each
wall run and forming a 45 degree angle to them. This gives a place
for the monitor with ample space in front for a keyboard or writing
etc. and loads of legroom underneath. I used butcher block worktop
finished with 8 coats of Danish Oil (it's a quick procedure).

I used cable outlet inserts made by Trend and their router jig to cut
the holes.

The upper cupboards are butted virtually against the ceiling to give
maximum height between worktop and underneath of cupboard. There is
room for two rows of bookshelves all the way round, although I have
only installed one at this point.

It works pretty well and I am pleased with the result.

I think that the main problem that you would have is the radiator.
One option could be to fit grilles into the back of the worktops to
allow convection. You would need to have air inlet at the bottom as
well, though. Even then, the output is going to be reduced by
possibly 30% (like a radiator cover).

I would try to look for an alternative for the radiator. A fan
convector may not be appealing because of the noise. How about two
or three smaller radiators on the other walls, or perhaps a high one
at one end? Double finned low radiators under the bay window?




--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On 4 Jan 2005 23:34:23 GMT, "Bob Eager" strung
together this:

So, any ideas and actual experiences appreciated....!

Depends how high you want it. I've got 2 workbenches in the garage,
(well, I've got more but only 2 that I can get to!), One is atop an
old cupboard of a similar height to kitchen units and the other next
to it is low level for sitting at.

Neither of mine have a radiator behind though, could yours be moved? I
suppose you could leave a gap behind the unit to circulate air if
that's what ends up there, or change it for a plinth heater.
--

SJW
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 00:04:26 UTC, Andy Hall wrote:

(useful stuff)

I think that the main problem that you would have is the radiator.
One option could be to fit grilles into the back of the worktops to
allow convection. You would need to have air inlet at the bottom as
well, though. Even then, the output is going to be reduced by
possibly 30% (like a radiator cover).

The radiator is actually oversized for that room, IMO. So a loss such as
that is not a problem, especially as two of the PCs are on 24/7.

I would try to look for an alternative for the radiator. A fan
convector may not be appealing because of the noise. How about two
or three smaller radiators on the other walls

Yes...the wall behind the door perhaps.

or perhaps a high one
at one end? Double finned low radiators under the bay window?

That might work. Will have to look at costs....!

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!

Bob Eager wrote:

I think that the main problem that you would have is the radiator.
One option could be to fit grilles into the back of the worktops to
allow convection. You would need to have air inlet at the bottom as
well, though. Even then, the output is going to be reduced by
possibly 30% (like a radiator cover).

The radiator is actually oversized for that room, IMO. So a loss such as
that is not a problem, especially as two of the PCs are on 24/7.

My study's smaller - 4m x 2.2 roughly. It has minimal heatloss - only
the 2.2m end wall+window, and the first 3m of one of the longer walls,
are external; timber-frame construction with (I think!) sthg like
rockwool behind the vapour barrier. Oh, a little heat gain from the HW
tank in the airing cupboard which it shares 1m of wall with.

With only one PC in here, not running 24x7, and a sprinkling of small
loads only 30W or so of which are on 24x7, it's still more comfortable
with a small gap permanently open in the small side window, and when
working at the PC with it and outboard peripherals adding 400-500W of
heat into the room, I often find myself part-opening the window. The TRV
on the rad agrees - it kicked in a few days ago when the outside temp
was unusually low, for a good 30 minutes or so.

So you may find your rad as essentially redundant as mine is, and
faffing about with relocation to be unnecessary. A grille strip at the
back of the workbench is a possibility, but is an invitation to Sod and
Murphy to send irreplaceable parts (Torx-7-head M2.5 30mm machine
screws, tiny custom plastic mouldings, etc) down there. I'd go with the
"who needs a rad when you've a couple of 24x7 machines in there", and
rejig if you find your fingers or toes turning blue...

Stefek

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 11:03:50 UTC, Stefek Zaba
wrote:

So you may find your rad as essentially redundant as mine is, and
faffing about with relocation to be unnecessary. A grille strip at the
back of the workbench is a possibility, but is an invitation to Sod and
Murphy to send irreplaceable parts (Torx-7-head M2.5 30mm machine
screws, tiny custom plastic mouldings, etc) down there. I'd go with the
"who needs a rad when you've a couple of 24x7 machines in there", and
rejig if you find your fingers or toes turning blue...

Yes, I had a think last night and came to essentially the same
conclusion. The study (upstairs) has another 3 PCs in it, all
permanently on. We have never used the radiator in there.

So, I just need to think about what kind of 'bench' construction is
best....!
--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!

Bob Eager wrote:


So, I just need to think about what kind of 'bench' construction is
best....!

If you want cost-efficient, I'd guess at kitchen worktop & kitchen unit
bases, picked up at 'sale'/discontinued-range prices. Then you can spend
the cash you saved on a big anti-static sheet to cover the bench ;-) For
cable access, interrupting the supporting batten in a couple of places
and cutting a recess of say 5cm wide x 3cm deep (so 13A plugs,
VGA/LCD-panel connectors, etc. can readily pass through) would be simple
enough - though keeping the batten in one piece and reducing its depth
instead would make keeping it in good contact with the top rather
easier. As far as the bench base goes, it's up to you to balance storage
(which cupboards give you) against access space (which either
free-standing legs - 2insq timber being functional, chromed or similar
Official Worktop Legs being Prettier to some ways of thinking). You may
find an open bench - batten on wall, braced legs or a simple chip/MDF
side panel to support the sides and "thereby" the front. If you're
worried about deflection in the middle of the front, stiffening with a
bit of angle iron a few inches back from the front edge might help. For
the garage bench, I have that sort of arrangement, with a half-depth
shelf lower down running the full width of the bench, forming a handy
place to store both projects-in-progress and some of the tools/materials.

Bookshelf-wise, I'm very happy with the Spur uprights and long runs of
pineboard I put in within a few weeks of moving in here. There's a
natural gap the depth of the shelf uprights behind each shelf, which
makes the narrow shelves I have next to the desk to have an arbitrary
collection of Ethernet, small-gadget-wall-wart-feed, phone/ISDN/ADSL,
USB, and more to run restrained but easy to add/shift/remove as the mood
takes me.

Hope that helps stimulate some thinking - Stefek

Stefek Zaba wrote:
So, I just need to think about what kind of 'bench' construction is
best....!

If you want cost-efficient, I'd guess at kitchen worktop & kitchen unit
bases, picked up at 'sale'/discontinued-range prices.

That certainly works as my 'light, clean, standing' workbench (as
distinct from the various other combinations).

However, you also need to think about work-surface height, and room for
toes and knees.

A good solution would be to use two 50-60cm units and leave a knee space
in between them. That gives you the options of both standing and seated
work. I would say keep the recessed plinths, so you can comfortably
stand up close when you need to.

One drawer/cupboard unit and one stack of drawers often makes a nice
combination of storage spaces. You don't need the whole front-to-back
depth for your knees, so you could fit some extra Spur shelving in
there.

A tall chair or stool (preferably adjustable, to make it exactly right
for you) would complete the ensemble.


--
Ian White
Abingdon, England

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 12:46:10 UTC, Stefek Zaba
wrote:

If you want cost-efficient, I'd guess at kitchen worktop & kitchen unit
bases, picked up at 'sale'/discontinued-range prices. Then you can spend
the cash you saved on a big anti-static sheet to cover the bench ;-) For

(etc.)

Very useful...thanks!

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 13:41:58 UTC, Ian White wrote:

A good solution would be to use two 50-60cm units and leave a knee space
in between them. That gives you the options of both standing and seated
work. I would say keep the recessed plinths, so you can comfortably
stand up close when you need to.

One drawer/cupboard unit and one stack of drawers often makes a nice
combination of storage spaces. You don't need the whole front-to-back
depth for your knees, so you could fit some extra Spur shelving in
there.

A tall chair or stool (preferably adjustable, to make it exactly right
for you) would complete the ensemble.

Thanks...again some useful ideas. The mixed storage/open idea was
roughly what I had in mind.
--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!

On 4 Jan 2005 23:34:23 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

* One is a bay window.

Personally I'd put my main assembly/disassembly/tinkering area in the
bay, daylight is so much nicer to work under than artifical. I've use
white Melamine on 2" sq legs, cross braced at the rear and sides and 3
x .75 battens between the leg tops to make sturdy, cheap, benches.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

IME Kitchen units and a worktop work well in this application. In 3m of
one wall, I have one of the office pcs and and two kneeholes, one for
the pc, one for the bench area which backs onto the radiator. By
splitting the worktop into two short pieces it is possible to have one
section against the wall, and a gap at the back of the workbench
section. The kitchen base units are freestanding, with the top in some
locations, screwed to them. The split also facilitates access when
various disasters strike. The bench worktop has a 150mm rear upstand,
which enables most of the small vital screws to fall onto the floor in
front of the bench, where they disappear into the carpet to join the
sawdust, metal filings, crumbs and coffee, before she sucks them up into
the cleaner. The occasional screw makes a bid for freedom at the rear,
disappears into the double panel radiator behind the bench, where it is
preferably written off(one of those screw pick up tools, a mirror and a
magnet is a good investment! That item is of course, normally, brass!).
Kitchen drawer units make good filing cabinets, but don't do too good a
job or you will find that these are taken over for the usual collections
of nK handbags and shoes(IME, these things breed when I'm not looking
and she wants to take over the next door space!). The airflow round the
radiator is very good and the instrument shelf at higher level deflects
the heat round the room without cooking the operator at the bench.
Typing chairs with adjustable height work well. Some jobs you need just
under the magnifier, some you need elbow room for! The knee holes
provide storage for boxes, large paper cutters, UPSs etc.
Using kitchen units is economic, very fast, but most shelves are crap
and won't take book loadings.

Hope this helps

Regards
Capitol

In article ,
Bob Eager wrote:
I have one side of the room (3m approx) for a 'bench'. I'm not after a
heavy workbench here, but somewhere to use the PCs, work on PCs and
other electronics, and generally fix things. It should incorporate
storage.

The question is...what to use for a bench. I don't want anything
elaborate, so I was thinking of something like some kitchen units and a
piece of worktop.

I've got my workshop in a first floor bedroom. There's no point in making
an ultra strong bench since I'd not risk heavy hammering etc with a
suspended floor and ceiling underneath.

I made mine out of 2x2 PAR with the legs at 2ft spacing, and a perimeter
frame at the top, and at about a foot off floor level for shelves, with
all the joints simple half overlap types, glued and screwed. There are
also horizontal strengtheners front to back alongside each leg at the top
and shelf height. The shelf area is made out of flooring tongue and
groove, with a sort of pelmet across the front to keep things in. It's
screwed to the wall, and covers 1.5 walls, including a cut out for the
rad. The top is 1" blockboard covered in strong lino, and has a hardwood
edge, flush with the perimeter frame. I have a wood vice at one end, and a
metalwork one at the other - with extra horizontal supports there. Later
additions are a pillar drill, grinder, and compound angle saw. These are
all bolted in place so may be removed when handling large sheets of
whatever.

The beauty of making one is that you can tailor the height to suit
yourself. I'm 6ft, and standard kitchen worktops are too low.

It cost not a lot - I used re-claimed blockboard as it was to be covered.

And its just fooking perfect for my needs. Wish I could say the same about
everything I've made. ;-)

Everything in the workshop is designed for easy removal in case I ever
needed to move, or have it as a bedroom again. So all worktop sockets etc
are surface mounted and the wiring in surface conduit, so after a bit of
filler and a tosh of paint you'd not know anything had been there.

--
*24 hours in a day ... 24 beers in a case ... coincidence? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article om,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
* One is a bay window.

Personally I'd put my main assembly/disassembly/tinkering area in the
bay, daylight is so much nicer to work under than artifical. I've use
white Melamine on 2" sq legs, cross braced at the rear and sides and 3
x .75 battens between the leg tops to make sturdy, cheap, benches.

At the end of my benches, I've got a similar design, but at desk height,
which runs under the window. This is my electronics area where I'll be
sitting down. Can't abide using a high typist's type chair at a standard
height bench.

--
*I used to have an open mind but my brains kept falling out *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 00:32:26 UTC, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

I've got my workshop in a first floor bedroom. There's no point in making
an ultra strong bench since I'd not risk heavy hammering etc with a
suspended floor and ceiling underneath.

I agree. As it happens, this is ground floor (front!).

I made mine out of 2x2 PAR with the legs at 2ft spacing, and a perimeter
frame at the top, and at about a foot off floor level for shelves, with
all the joints simple half overlap types, glued and screwed. There are
also horizontal strengtheners front to back alongside each leg at the top
and shelf height. The shelf area is made out of flooring tongue and
groove, with a sort of pelmet across the front to keep things in. It's
screwed to the wall, and covers 1.5 walls, including a cut out for the
rad. The top is 1" blockboard covered in strong lino, and has a hardwood
edge, flush with the perimeter frame.

I'm slow this morning - PAR? It sounds more solid than what I was
planning - heaviest thing that'll go on it is the laser printers I
repair sometimes...but that's no reason not to do so of course.

This isn't a place where I'd have a big vice or anything like that, it's
more electronics and minor hardware...!

The beauty of making one is that you can tailor the height to suit
yourself. I'm 6ft, and standard kitchen worktops are too low.

Yes...I'm 6'4" and that is a consideration. However the kind of work I
do is mainly sitting down, so it comes down to compatible seating more
than anything.

Everything in the workshop is designed for easy removal in case I ever
needed to move, or have it as a bedroom again. So all worktop sockets etc
are surface mounted and the wiring in surface conduit, so after a bit of
filler and a tosh of paint you'd not know anything had been there.

As it happens, I had that idea too...but for another room. In the case
of the workshop, the major power point users are the PCs etc., and they
all run from one 13A socket, via a beefy UPS. Since I've just rewired
the house (well, one bit isn't quite finished!) there are plenrty of
sockets in the room.

This other room is larger (4m x 4m) and is a spare bedroom used as the
'office'. This has another four PCs in it (or will have, we're currently
camping out in the next room and the office is being rewired etc.) and
these too will run off a UPS. But there *is* extra wiring needed, over
and above a normal bedroom, and, like you, I plan to use surface conduit
and sockets for lots of network wiring, power (from UPS) and the like. I
haven't yet worked out how to arrange all this table/worktop wise yet as
SWMBO is involved in this one, and anyway we only stripped the room out
three days ago.

(BTW, this was after completing decoration on the living room on Dec
23rd, having new carpet (4m x 7m) fitted at 9am Christmas Eve, and
completing other stuff an hour before relatives arrived on Christmas Day
morning!)

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!

In article ,
Bob Eager wrote:
I'm slow this morning - PAR? It sounds more solid than what I was
planning - heaviest thing that'll go on it is the laser printers I
repair sometimes...but that's no reason not to do so of course.

PAR - planed all round, or smooth. ;-) Might also be called SAR -
(surfaced)

I wanted the benches to be an exact fit round two walls, between door and
window, so using ready made kitchen units wouldn't have been so good - and
would have cost *far* more. Nor did I need doors, etc. I have added a
couple of home made drawers, but these are much deeper than kitchen units.

My original intention was only to use it for small jobs, but find a nice
warm dry well lit workshop (with a good sound system and TV) so appealing
I'll lug car stuff up there for overhaul after a good clean. And carry
lumps of timber up and down stairs for cutting etc rather than use the
Workmate.

The obvious answer would be to move out of London and get a place with
room for a decent external workshop. But I actually like living here and
it's close to work, so I'm stopping. ;-)

--
*Confession is good for the soul, but bad for your career.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman wrote:

At the end of my benches, I've got a similar design, but at desk
height, which runs under the window. This is my electronics area where
I'll be sitting down. Can't abide using a high typist's type chair at a
standard height bench.

As well as the stand-up bench made from kitchen units, I do have a
separate sitting-down electronics area with a much lower bench.
Obviously it is better to have both, if there's space.

But if limited to only one option (as the OP seemed to be, by the room
layout) it would have to be the higher bench, with a higher chair for
sitting-down work.

Personally, I wouldn't go for a sitting-down bench facing into the bay
window - not even if that was possible as well as the stand-up bench.
BTDT, and retreated with severe eye-strain from having *too much* light
in the daytime. Facing a window also severely limits the opportunities
for over-bench shelving, which is particularly useful for electronics
work.


--
Ian White
Abingdon, England

On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 10:44:28 UTC, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

PAR - planed all round, or smooth. ;-) Might also be called SAR -
(surfaced)

That's what I thought it meant, but not what the actual words were!

My original intention was only to use it for small jobs, but find a nice
warm dry well lit workshop (with a good sound system and TV) so appealing
I'll lug car stuff up there for overhaul after a good clean. And carry
lumps of timber up and down stairs for cutting etc rather than use the
Workmate.

Yes, I am still not sure about the larger jobs - whether to do them
there or elsewhere on a 'temporary' basis.

The obvious answer would be to move out of London and get a place with
room for a decent external workshop. But I actually like living here and
it's close to work, so I'm stopping. ;-)

I'm in East Kent, 10 mins from work...so I'm not moving either!

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!

On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 11:02:27 UTC, Ian White wrote:

Personally, I wouldn't go for a sitting-down bench facing into the bay
window - not even if that was possible as well as the stand-up bench.
BTDT, and retreated with severe eye-strain from having *too much* light
in the daytime. Facing a window also severely limits the opportunities
for over-bench shelving, which is particularly useful for electronics
work.

The bay window is very exposed to the road, so has blinds to stop people
looking in and seeing what's there. So I would get little light benefit
anyway...!

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!

In article ,
Ian White wrote:
But if limited to only one option (as the OP seemed to be, by the room
layout) it would have to be the higher bench, with a higher chair for
sitting-down work.

I'd qualify this by saying I suffer intermittently from back trouble, and
this sort of chair is the very worse to aggravate it, as you tend to perch
on them rather than sit back.

Personally, I wouldn't go for a sitting-down bench facing into the bay
window - not even if that was possible as well as the stand-up bench.
BTDT, and retreated with severe eye-strain from having *too much* light
in the daytime. Facing a window also severely limits the opportunities
for over-bench shelving, which is particularly useful for electronics
work.

I've got venetian blinds on a south facing window. But it's not a bay,
being a back bedroom. Far too posh for the Victorians. The window is also
one corner, rather than central - due to the rear addition. So my
'electronic' shelves are to one side on that wall. I'd put up some pics,
but don't have a website. ;-)

--
*Can atheists get insurance for acts of God? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.