Sorry. a bit (a lot!) OT but I'd value the group's opinions on this...

My VCR is definitely on its last legs, and needs replacing very soon.
We already have a DVD playback machine; the need here is for something
to enable us to time-shift TV (ie record programmes and watch them at a
convenient time, then delete them). Not interested in preserving for
posterity here.

So the choice is between (a) a hard-disk-type recorder; (b) a DVD-R or
-RW machine; or (c) another VCR.

I really like the idea of a hard disk - no more hunting round for a
blank tape with enough free space left; no more hunting round for that
tape with the final episode of '24', which I know is there somewhere -
but have some concerns...

For example, all these machines give widely varying hour capacities,
depending on the recording speed. How realistic are these - how good is
the quality likely to be at lowest resolution? How many Gb should I
rely on for an hours-worth of viewing?

What about all these downloadable programming guides etc? Are you
always locked in to have to pay a monthly sub, plus daily phone calls,
on top of the initial purchase price?

Finally, I wonder whether it's too early to be buying an HD machine, are
they likely to improve massively in price and quality over the next 1-2
years, as we've seen with DVDs? Therefore maybe a cheapo stopgap VCR
would be best? Or a DVD-R (but you've still got the DVDs to find and lose!)

I look forward to your views!

David

Lobster wrote:
Sorry. a bit (a lot!) OT but I'd value the group's opinions on this...

My VCR is definitely on its last legs, and needs replacing very soon.
We already have a DVD playback machine; the need here is for something
to enable us to time-shift TV (ie record programmes and watch them at a
snip

Finally, I wonder whether it's too early to be buying an HD machine, are
they likely to improve massively in price and quality over the next 1-2
years, as we've seen with DVDs? Therefore maybe a cheapo stopgap VCR
would be best? Or a DVD-R (but you've still got the DVDs to find and lose!)

HD capacities are likely to rise - probably around doubling in that time,
which will double recording time.
A non-trivial fraction of hard disks will fail every year.
This means you lose all recordings.
It's nice to be able to back up on to DVD in some way, if you can.

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Sorry. a bit (a lot!) OT but I'd value the group's opinions on this...

My VCR is definitely on its last legs, and needs replacing very soon.
We already have a DVD playback machine; the need here is for something
to enable us to time-shift TV (ie record programmes and watch them at a
convenient time, then delete them). Not interested in preserving for
posterity here.

So the choice is between (a) a hard-disk-type recorder; (b) a DVD-R or
-RW machine; or (c) another VCR.

I really like the idea of a hard disk - no more hunting round for a
blank tape with enough free space left; no more hunting round for that
tape with the final episode of '24', which I know is there somewhere -
but have some concerns...

For example, all these machines give widely varying hour capacities,
depending on the recording speed. How realistic are these - how good is
the quality likely to be at lowest resolution? How many Gb should I
rely on for an hours-worth of viewing?

What about all these downloadable programming guides etc? Are you
always locked in to have to pay a monthly sub, plus daily phone calls,
on top of the initial purchase price?

Finally, I wonder whether it's too early to be buying an HD machine, are
they likely to improve massively in price and quality over the next 1-2
years, as we've seen with DVDs? Therefore maybe a cheapo stopgap VCR
would be best? Or a DVD-R (but you've still got the DVDs to find and
lose!)

I look forward to your views!

David

I'd personally go for a HD model and possibly maybe one which also has DVD-R
capability. The speed, ease-of-use, etc of HD recording far exceeds anything
that recordable DVD can provide (although DVD-RAM is better than the other
two formats). However, I've always wanted to keep some things on tape maybe
for family/friends viewing or just stuff to archive off hence the DVD-R.

All technology gets better by the minute so yes if you buy it now you'll be
kicking yourself next week. But hey that's life!

Presently I've experimented with a PC based digital TV system (kids Xmas
present) and it is very good. A 90 minute film can take 2.5GB (highest
quality setting) so that *may* give you an idea on what storage capacity
consumer units may provide?!

HTH!

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 20:44:32 GMT, Lobster wrote:

What about all these downloadable programming guides etc? Are you
always locked in to have to pay a monthly sub, plus daily phone
calls, on top of the initial purchase price?

The Philips HDD and DVD burner device uses a free EPG that it
downloads each night from a teletext stream carried by ITV1.

I'm also interested in this sort of device, HDD to avoid the tape
hunting for "free space", EPG to record all eps of Y programme, DVD
burner to archive off stuff you want to keep. Price tag is a bit steep
though over =A3300 or there abouts.

Next down are the DVD recorders at about =A3150, I guess if they can
burn a rewriteable DVD then the archiving side is taken care of and
you can reuse the DVDs but you then end up hunt the DVD with free
space...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Sorry. a bit (a lot!) OT but I'd value the group's opinions on this...

My VCR is definitely on its last legs, and needs replacing very soon.
We already have a DVD playback machine; the need here is for something
to enable us to time-shift TV (ie record programmes and watch them at a
convenient time, then delete them). Not interested in preserving for
posterity here.

So the choice is between (a) a hard-disk-type recorder; (b) a DVD-R or
-RW machine; or (c) another VCR.

I really like the idea of a hard disk - no more hunting round for a
blank tape with enough free space left; no more hunting round for that
tape with the final episode of '24', which I know is there somewhere -
but have some concerns...

You seem to contradicting yourself in the above, first you say that you
don't keep stuff for posterity and then say that you can't find a blank (or
presumably) used tape to record on to....


For example, all these machines give widely varying hour capacities,
depending on the recording speed. How realistic are these - how good is
the quality likely to be at lowest resolution? How many Gb should I
rely on for an hours-worth of viewing?

What about all these downloadable programming guides etc? Are you
always locked in to have to pay a monthly sub, plus daily phone calls,
on top of the initial purchase price?

Finally, I wonder whether it's too early to be buying an HD machine, are
they likely to improve massively in price and quality over the next 1-2
years, as we've seen with DVDs? Therefore maybe a cheapo stopgap VCR
would be best? Or a DVD-R (but you've still got the DVDs to find and
lose!)


Well, a VCR is proven technology, there are known problems with recordable
DVD's (like compatibility between machines) and HDD recorders are still new
to the consumer market - over priced or under spec'ed.

Don't be taken in by Dixons (and DSG) marketing hype, IMO the VCR is far
from dead and if it was not only would the Dixons stores be clearing their
shelves of VCR's but their fellow DSG stores - Currys.........
--
Reply to group please.

begin .......nothing!

I look forward to your views!

David

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 22:02:51 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 20:44:32 GMT, Lobster wrote:

What about all these downloadable programming guides etc? Are you
always locked in to have to pay a monthly sub, plus daily phone
calls, on top of the initial purchase price?

The Philips HDD and DVD burner device uses a free EPG that it
downloads each night from a teletext stream carried by ITV1.

I'm also interested in this sort of device, HDD to avoid the tape
hunting for "free space", EPG to record all eps of Y programme, DVD
burner to archive off stuff you want to keep. Price tag is a bit steep
though over £300 or there abouts.

Next down are the DVD recorders at about £150, I guess if they can
burn a rewriteable DVD then the archiving side is taken care of and
you can reuse the DVDs but you then end up hunt the DVD with free
space...


DVD-Rs are now so cheap that it's probably not worth bothering with
rewritable disks. As far as spare space goes, at least it's random
access.......



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Lobster wrote in
:

Sorry. a bit (a lot!) OT but I'd value the group's opinions on this...

My VCR is definitely on its last legs, and needs replacing very soon.
We already have a DVD playback machine; the need here is for something
to enable us to time-shift TV (ie record programmes and watch them at
a convenient time, then delete them). Not interested in preserving
for posterity here.

So the choice is between (a) a hard-disk-type recorder; (b) a DVD-R or
-RW machine; or (c) another VCR.

I really like the idea of a hard disk - no more hunting round for a
blank tape with enough free space left; no more hunting round for that
tape with the final episode of '24', which I know is there somewhere -
but have some concerns...

For example, all these machines give widely varying hour capacities,
depending on the recording speed. How realistic are these - how good
is the quality likely to be at lowest resolution? How many Gb should
I rely on for an hours-worth of viewing?

I didn't think an 80gig drive would be enough for all my timeshifting,
which averages about 7 x 3 or 4 hour tapes, so I waited for a 160gig,
and then I got a Sony 250gig, which came out about the same time.

What an overkill! 160 would have been loads.

Also this 2.5 GB per hour is at standard play, which is vastly superior
to VHS, so you can easily extend; I've not tried lower rates, but I'd be
surprised if the longest play was much inferior to VHS

I would suggest a builtin DVD recorder as well, there's always a
possibility of archiving, also as a buffer if you manage to push the HD
capacity. And you can use your present DVD player elsewhere.

The advantages you've described are even greater in practice: I don't
know how I managed before.

mike

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 22:21:11 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

DVD-Rs are now so cheap that it's probably not worth bothering with
rewritable disks.

Seems a bit of a waste just for a time shift of a programme that I
might not watch anyway or find naff within the first ten mins and not
bother with the rest.

A PC based HDD/DVD burner solution appeals, at least then it would not
be under control of the kids and with a bit of tiddling about could
probably get an email interface for remote programming set up.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Dave Liquorice wrote:

Next down are the DVD recorders at about £150,

I was surprised to see that Richer Sounds are doing a Relisys DVD
recorder for only £119.99.
http://ws2.richersounds.com/showprod...RELI-RDVR250RU

I'm hanging on a little longer for one with HD though.

I really like the idea of a hard disk - no more hunting round for a

blank tape with enough free space left; no more hunting round for
that
tape with the final episode of '24', which I know is there
somewhere -
but have some concerns...

I very much like the sound of the hard disk based systems too, but one
critiscm I have read is of excessive noise from the units, (presumably
fan noise and noise from the HDD itself). - Has anyone who owns such a
unit got any comments on this?

CHECK OUT ARGOS SALE; item 532-0462 @=A3200; 80gb hdd, twin tuners.

In article .com,
Mike Pepper wrote:
I really like the idea of a hard disk - no more hunting round for a

blank tape with enough free space left; no more hunting round for
that
tape with the final episode of '24', which I know is there
somewhere -
but have some concerns...

I very much like the sound of the hard disk based systems too, but one
critiscm I have read is of excessive noise from the units, (presumably
fan noise and noise from the HDD itself). - Has anyone who owns such a
unit got any comments on this?

You are now entering the realms of the home server + network arena -
You have a living room "appliance" which is nothing more than a small
(fanless) PC (boot off flash) with a slot (combined CD+DVD reader), an
RF/UHF in with digital tuner on-board, Video & audio out and a network
interface to take the data to/from the "home server" stashed under
the stairs..

Well gekky stuff, but it's all do-able with todays technology, and open
source stuff.

Hopefully this year I'll get my act together and build such a thing... I
already have a spare small PC - little pizza box size thing, works
off a laptop PSU, boots from flash, 500MHz VIA processor, although
the processor might not be up to playing video from the filestore and
recording off-air at the same time.

I've already gotten rid of the old Hi-Fi stack from the livingroom - my
DVD player seems to play all my audio CDs quite well... (Amp & Speakers
are still there though, but the Amp is now in the telly cabinet and not
part of a separate stack)

Gordon

On 29 Dec 2004 00:15:45 -0800, "Mike Pepper"
wrote:

I really like the idea of a hard disk - no more hunting round for a

blank tape with enough free space left; no more hunting round for
that
tape with the final episode of '24', which I know is there
somewhere -
but have some concerns...

I very much like the sound of the hard disk based systems too, but one
critiscm I have read is of excessive noise from the units, (presumably
fan noise and noise from the HDD itself). - Has anyone who owns such a
unit got any comments on this?


I have one of the Sky units and you can only hear the disk if you put
your ear very close to the unit, and even then it's very quiet.
In a cabinet and a few metres away, it's inaudible.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In article , Lobster
wrote:
My VCR is definitely on its last legs, and needs replacing
very soon. We already have a DVD playback machine; the need
here is for something to enable us to time-shift TV (ie
record programmes and watch them at a convenient time, then
delete them). Not interested in preserving for posterity
here.

One of my best ever purchases a year ago was my Pace Twin
Freeview hard disk recorder which I use for time shifting. The
real joy of it is the repeating timer: for a programme you
watch week on week you enter the details once, selecting
'weekly', 'daily' or 'weekdays' and it will be recorded each
time until you delete the entry. When it comes to playing back
you have a nice menu of recordings with each given the
programme's name, select what you want and play (skipping the
ads at x32 playback). A further plus is that Freeview also
carries BBC Radio, so you have a nice easy way of recording
radio progs too.

The only caveat is that the software is not 100% and
occasionally you do get the endless loop (only cure to switch
off at mains) or picture freeze bugs (press stop, then play)
but these are more than compensated for by the fact that it
does exactly what I want. There are some more recent PVR's
around but some only have one tuner so you cannot watch one
Freeview prog whilst recording another and some AIUI do not
have the repeating timer. And of course you need to be in a
Freeview reception area.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser
http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

Following-up my own post, which is not always a wise move, but after
catching up with some post-xmas news, I find the ofllowing:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/12/29/sub-500_imac/

So it looks like for under $500 there may well be a pre-built system
ready to go... (Although it's probably take Apple another year to get
to the UK market and then the $ will change to a £ without any form of
monerary conversion taking place )-:

Gordon

On 29 Dec 2004 00:24:06 -0800, wrote:

CHECK OUT ARGOS SALE; item 532-0462 @=A3200; 80gb hdd, twin tuners.

Freeview *only*, NFG here. Oh and no DVD burner...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Mike Pepper wrote:
I really like the idea of a hard disk - no more hunting round for a

blank tape with enough free space left; no more hunting round for
that tape with the final episode of '24', which I know is there
somewhere - but have some concerns...

I very much like the sound of the hard disk based systems too, but one
critiscm I have read is of excessive noise from the units, (presumably
fan noise and noise from the HDD itself). - Has anyone who owns such
a unit got any comments on this?

I've got a TiVo sat straight under the TV and don't find the noise intrusive
at all, it's behind a glass door but the back is open to the room and the
only time you can hear it is if you get right up close to it. I have though
swapped the standard HD for a bigger one and specifically choose a quiet
running drive. The cooling fan on the case is very quiet, if only PC
manufacturers could catch on.

--
James...
www.jameshart.co.uk

Tony Bryer wrote:

One of my best ever purchases a year ago was my Pace Twin
Freeview hard disk recorder which I use for time shifting. The
real joy of it is the repeating timer: for a programme you
watch week on week you enter the details once, selecting
'weekly', 'daily' or 'weekdays' and it will be recorded each
time until you delete the entry. When it comes to playing back
you have a nice menu of recordings with each given the
programme's name, select what you want and play (skipping the
ads at x32 playback). A further plus is that Freeview also
carries BBC Radio, so you have a nice easy way of recording
radio progs too.

Thanks, sounds interesting. Just been looking into this one at
http://www.pacefreetoview.co.uk/02d.asp.

I see it has a 10 hrs viewing time/ 20Gb HDD which sounds a bit on the
low side - are they upgradeable with standard PC kit? (does anyone know
if this can be done with other models?)

I also note it's subscription-free - good! - does it still get programme
details/transmission times etc over the ether, or do you have to enter
all that yourself?

Cheers
David

Gordon Henderson wrote:
You are now entering the realms of the home server + network arena -
You have a living room "appliance" which is nothing more than a small
(fanless) PC (boot off flash) with a slot (combined CD+DVD reader), an
RF/UHF in with digital tuner on-board, Video & audio out and a network
interface to take the data to/from the "home server" stashed under
the stairs..

Well gekky stuff, but it's all do-able with todays technology, and open
source stuff.

I'd really like to do something along these lines but TBH I think I lack
the geekability to do it from scratch and would need somethig a bit more
off-the-shelf. My own living room TV sits next to an ethernet socket
for my home network, which includes a PC with (underused) TV card and I
can't help feeling that there must be a relaitively simple way to take
advantage of this!

I keep dipping into this to find out if technology has got there yet but
am not convinced it is yet. There seem to be various media streaming
devices (eg:
http://www.hauppauge.co.uk/pages/pro..._mediamvp.html
www.streamium.com
www.dlink.com/products/?pid=318&sec=0 but I'm not convinced these are
really replacements for a VCR, especially in terms of userfriendliness -
am I wrong? I've never seen these gizmos in the flesh; has anyone
experience of them?

David

Lobster wrote:
Gordon Henderson wrote:
You are now entering the realms of the home server + network arena -
You have a living room "appliance" which is nothing more than a small
(fanless) PC (boot off flash) with a slot (combined CD+DVD reader), an
RF/UHF in with digital tuner on-board, Video & audio out and a network
interface to take the data to/from the "home server" stashed under
the stairs..

Well gekky stuff, but it's all do-able with todays technology, and open
source stuff.

I'd really like to do something along these lines but TBH I think I lack
the geekability to do it from scratch and would need somethig a bit more
off-the-shelf. My own living room TV sits next to an ethernet socket
for my home network, which includes a PC with (underused) TV card and I
can't help feeling that there must be a relaitively simple way to take
advantage of this!

Google Mythtv

However, it's not really precisely turnkey.

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 14:14:33 GMT, Lobster
wrote:

Thanks, sounds interesting. Just been looking into this one at
http://www.pacefreetoview.co.uk/02d.asp.

Looks like the Pace Twin, which I believe has been discontinued. I
have one and it has performed well for me BUT the software is not
bomb-proof and can give problems. However, it is one of the few that
currently have twin tuners so you can watch one channel and record
another. Recording quality is excellent - indistinguishable from
broadcast quality. Again note that archiving is real time only to
VCR. The hard drive is also notebook size 2.5in as opposed to the
far more common 3.5in.

I see it has a 10 hrs viewing time/ 20Gb HDD which sounds a bit on the
low side - are they upgradeable with standard PC kit? (does anyone know
if this can be done with other models?)

The drive it is supplied with is 20GB which gives qo hours recording
time. The drive can be changed to a larger one but an 80GB 2.5 in
costs nigh on £100 (as opposed to £30 for the 3.5)

Other models (Humax, Fusion) have standard 3.5 in drives and these can
be upgraded but there is IIRC no twin tuner model yet.

I also note it's subscription-free - good! - does it still get programme
details/transmission times etc over the ether, or do you have to enter
all that yourself?

Thre was only a 24 hour programme guide but IIRC parts of the country
no get up to 7 days EPG.

I would wait at least six months until newer models hit the market or
the dual mode - HDD/DVD writers come down in price, then you can
record to HDD, edit and burn to DVD.

Regards

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 22:37:55 +0000, Ziggy wrote:

Recording quality is excellent - indistinguishable from broadcast
quality.

I think you really mean that you can't tell that you are watching a
recording. You do not get real broadcast quality over freeview it's
fairly heavly compressed using lossy methods.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.com

Seems a bit of a waste just for a time shift of a programme that I
might not watch anyway or find naff within the first ten mins and not
bother with the rest.

A disk cost about 10 pence doesn't it? And are rewritable these days are
they not? Is that an unbearable expense?

A PC based HDD/DVD burner solution appeals, at least then it would not
be under control of the kids and with a bit of tiddling about could
probably get an email interface for remote programming set up.

What are those 7 to 2 or somesuch DVD card readers on sale in Lidle? Is
that what you lot are talking about?

£55 sounds a lot cheaper than the above prices. But a lot more than an
ordinary DVD TV player only.


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 09:21:13 +0000 (UTC), Michael Mcneil wrote:

Seems a bit of a waste just for a time shift of a programme that I
might not watch anyway or find naff within the first ten mins and
not bother with the rest.

A disk cost about 10 pence doesn't it? And are rewritable these days
are they not? Is that an unbearable expense?

Read back a bit further, it was suggested that WORM discs were used.
It is also a waste of resources.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

In article .com, Mike
Pepper writes
I really like the idea of a hard disk - no more hunting round for a

blank tape with enough free space left; no more hunting round for
that
tape with the final episode of '24', which I know is there
somewhere -
but have some concerns...

I very much like the sound of the hard disk based systems too, but one
critiscm I have read is of excessive noise from the units, (presumably
fan noise and noise from the HDD itself). - Has anyone who owns such a
unit got any comments on this?


What you really, really, want is a head end that tunes the sat/
terrestrial signals whatever, that has an output over 10/100 ethernet
which puts all the necessary data on the "server" in the "racks room"
elsewhere in your house, then you can dump all the stuff you want to
record timeshift on there.

Then you "edit" what you want to archive, share etc, and burn that onto
a DVD which all in all gives you the best of both worlds. We've been
using a Manhattan Starlight 5900 satellite receiver for some non UK
programmes and this has a built in HD and the quality easily exceeds
VHS. The 160 G/B drive in that offers some 60 odd hours of video and or
sound and very nice is that too.

However this unit can't get the signal off the drive and thats where
some of the newer receivers are quite good such as IIRC the Keon or
similar sounding units from Germany that have the 10/100 streaming
connection. IIRC too the dreambox has this on, but all in all I think
that "architecture" of radio/TV viewing is about to develop along these
lines.

We have a 10/100 network here and we use that to distribute audio around
the house, the big server outside in the garage/shed carries all the
CD's and other audio which is just picked off as and when needed by
other user PC's round the gaff) Very similar as to how a local radio
station/studio works these days.....
--
Tony Sayer

In article om,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
Recording quality is excellent - indistinguishable from broadcast
quality.

I think you really mean that you can't tell that you are watching a
recording. You do not get real broadcast quality over freeview it's
fairly heavly compressed using lossy methods.

And I'd guess the recorder will throw away some more. But probably only
noticeable on some types of movement.

--
*Where do forest rangers go to "get away from it all?"

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 22:37:55 +0000, Ziggy
squeezed out the following:

Other models (Humax, Fusion) have standard 3.5 in drives and these can
be upgraded but there is IIRC no twin tuner model yet.

Fusion and Thomson both do them now.

I also note it's subscription-free - good! - does it still get programme
details/transmission times etc over the ether, or do you have to enter
all that yourself?

Thre was only a 24 hour programme guide but IIRC parts of the country
now get up to 7 days EPG.

Correct. The Thomson's recent software upgrade allegedly gets 14 day
EPG.

I would wait at least six months until newer models hit the market or
the dual mode - HDD/DVD writers come down in price, then you can
record to HDD, edit and burn to DVD.

Anything you get is superceded a month or two later. I think UKP200k
or less for a Freeview box with built-in 40Gb HDD is worth going for.

--
Colin Irvine

In article , Ziggy wrote:
Thre was only a 24 hour programme guide but IIRC parts of the country
no get up to 7 days EPG.

7 days here (London)

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Sorry. a bit (a lot!) OT but I'd value the group's opinions on this...

My VCR is definitely on its last legs, and needs replacing very soon. We
already have a DVD playback machine; the need here is for something to
enable us to time-shift TV (ie record programmes and watch them at a
convenient time, then delete them). Not interested in preserving for
posterity here.

So the choice is between (a) a hard-disk-type recorder; (b) a DVD-R or -RW
machine; or (c) another VCR.

I really like the idea of a hard disk - no more hunting round for a blank
tape with enough free space left; no more hunting round for that tape with
the final episode of '24', which I know is there somewhere - but have some
concerns...

For example, all these machines give widely varying hour capacities,
depending on the recording speed. How realistic are these - how good is
the quality likely to be at lowest resolution? How many Gb should I rely
on for an hours-worth of viewing?

What about all these downloadable programming guides etc? Are you always
locked in to have to pay a monthly sub, plus daily phone calls, on top of
the initial purchase price?

Finally, I wonder whether it's too early to be buying an HD machine, are
they likely to improve massively in price and quality over the next 1-2
years, as we've seen with DVDs? Therefore maybe a cheapo stopgap VCR
would be best? Or a DVD-R (but you've still got the DVDs to find and
lose!)

I look forward to your views!

David

We bought a Philips DVDR725H/05 about 4 weeks ago. It has a 160GB hard drive
which will store, according to the manual:

M1 = 1 hour on a DVD+R/RW or 32 hours on hdd,
M2 (pre-recorded DVD quality) = 2 hours on DVD or 64 hours on hdd,
M2x (better than S-VHS quality) = 2.5 hours on DVD or 80 hours on hdd,
M3 (S-VHS quality) = 3 hours on DVD or 96 hours on hdd
M4 (better than VHS quality) 4 hours DVD or 128 hours on hdd
M6 (VHS quality) 6 hours DVD 192 hdd
M8 (VHS-LP quality) 8 hours DVD or 250 hdd

DVD+RW's can be written to, erased and written to again over 1000 times and
cost between 80p and £1 per disk (depending on brand) from local computer
fairs. The unit sits openly next to the telly and there is no noise
whatsoever from it. And as for the electronic program guide, it gets updated
each night, covers 7 nights in advance and makes recording a breeze - even
the wife can do it. Simply select the programme, press the red button, and
that's it - timer is set! (find out more about it here
http://www.europe.guideplus.com/)

The features and benefits are far too many to mention here so have a look at
http://tinyurl.com/55dwa to see it for yourself. OK, it cost us £499 from
www.digital-point.co.uk and it'll be outdated and probably obsolete within 6
months, but hey, it really is one of the best things we've ever bought in
the context of home entertainment.

Mogweed.

In article , Tony Bryer wrote:
The only caveat is that the software is not 100% and
occasionally you do get the endless loop (only cure to switch
off at mains) or picture freeze bugs (press stop, then play)
but these are more than compensated for by the fact that it

I've got a Pace twin that suffers from this problem. Passing traffic
seems to trigger it. Anyone know a possible cure? BTW I'm supposedly
not in a freeview area and the box often reads a signal strength of
less than 20%, but picture quality is pretty good as long as it sits
still.
Also, it's possible to record direct to VCR from the second tuner if
there's something you want to keep.
Stu

I have just purchased the Philips DVDR725H and at first I got a guide
plus listing and every morning after it says it has not updated the 7
day listing. I have read the manual and left it on standby, on itv as
i have only terestrial and the next nigh used the power off button on
the front of the panel, thied leaving it on the itv1 channel prior to
power off to standby. Tonight i will leave it turned on and observe..
Have you any tips ?

Malcolm