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Fred
 
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Default new combi experience report

I have received so much help in this group over time that it may well
be time for a bit of pay back. Because I feel less competent than many
to comment on specific questions, I think I could contribute an
experience report on my recent fitting of a new combi system. Some of
you looking at a similar job may find it helpful, others may have a
laugh on me for the mistakes that I made. Here we go:

The situation: bought a victorian 4-bed terrace in Yorkshire with a
really old gas boiler (estimates put it at between 20 and 30 years)
serving a hot water tank in a bedroom (!). No roomstat led to the
boiler being on all the time. Plus, the attic bedroom did not have a
radiator, arguably because the ch pump was so weak that it would have
had a hard time serving it. The shower is one of those victorian retro
showers.

We wanted a combi as we have seen combis work efficiently in other
houses here and abroad. We realised the potential problems with the
flow rate @35 but since we prefer showers over baths, the specific
advantages of a tank system were a bit lost on us. Also, we really
needed this bedroom to be free of the tank, so a major replumbing job
was kind of unavoidable.

We asked for three different quotes: local small plumber (quote for
3200), local large plumber (quote for 4000), British Gas (quote for
6000). We let the plumbers decide on how many radiators needed
replacing as some of the radiators are indeed very old. Needless to
say, they all differed as to which radiators needed swapping, but they
all arrived at between three or four radiators had to go, whilst also
offering to fit the attic bedroom radiator.

Small plumber advised on Worcester Bosch 30 Greenstar plus (with the
control in the boiler), large local plumber said WB 30 Greenstar old
(with separate digi controls), whilst British Gas recommended an 28kw
boiler of their own range - apparantly manufactured by WB all the
same. As for the shower, local small said shower works well with a
combi, local large said shower might or might not work with a combi,
British gas said you need a new shower as this one does not work.

We went with the cheapest quote, having a hunch that the shower would
probably work and that his information on radiators was the most
convincing one. Also, we thought, if all recommend the same boiler
firm, then why not go with the cheapest quote. Ok. So far so good. Our
biggest concern was the hot water flow rate of the boiler, as we often
shower whilst having the washer on and maybe someone doing the dishes.
Amateurs that we are, we were totally focused on the boilers
abilities, hence we asked the quote to be upgraded to the Worcester
Bosch 40 HE Greenstar plus, a difference of about 300 pounds - we have
yet to see the final invoice. We did estimates of the mains flow rate
but never measured it when all the other households use cold water as
well ;-)

The whole job took almost five days to complete, two nights without
heating or hot water was a bit of a hassle for a family with two young
children. The plumbers first came with a WB 40 HE Greenstar
convential. It took me to repeatedly point it out to them that the
whole purpose of the excercise was to fit a combi and their boiler was
not a combi (praise the web - makes it easy to double check), and
after a brief exchange they realised the mistake - blamed it on
suppliers mind you but who would not double check before unpacking
that sort of equipment? The right boiler came next day and was then
fitted to the outbuilding directly adjacent to the kitchen. Reason
being that it's fairly large and the condensation flue needed to be
somewhere where it does not blow into a neighbour's garden or window.
Could not be connected that evening because the electrician was off
sick.

During the installation, most of the job went smoothly. The shower
works no problem (British Gas overlooked this and quoted an additional
300 pounds for the replacement shower). We did not swap any of the
radiators as we thought better to check out the heating with the new
boiler on, had only the radiator in the attic fitted. They used
plastic pipes for the attic radiator, which had to be moved as we
wanted the wall where the original tank was to be freed up in order to
place some wardrobes there. We made this clear to the plumbers, but
they only moved the radiator pipes. For whatever reason they left the
shower pipes in place. When I pointed this out to them, they said that
they did not expect the shower to be fed from pipes running through
the attic. I of course in my naivity had seen this first think as the
shower pipes go to the ceiling... Never mind, they agreed to move the
shower pipes for another 150 quid. What do you do then? You just say
ok, because you want to get the job bloody finished. Personally, I
consider this borderline ripoff as we made it clear that the purpose
of moving the radiator pipes was to get the corner free for the
wardrobes. They are the experts to tell me that these could be shower
pipes as well...

But now to the biggest thing if you like concern: the end result.
Heating works marvellous, a warm house with single glazing and exposed
floor boards and what not. It comes on quickly and the control on the
boiler are fairly sophisticated to allow for all sorts of heating
scenarios. The hot water is another story though. It takes for ages to
actually come through. Maybe not much longer than with the tank,
especially in the kitchen, but regardless: you turn on the shower,
then take off clothes and then carefully step in as it may still not
be hot enough. Thank God we are not a water meter. But the real issue
is the flow rate: the shower is certainly no better than it was
before. Maybe about equal. And that is not so much due to the boiler
but the mains flow rate in the first place. Also, I can get the shower
to die instantly if I turn on the bathroom sink ho****er tap. I knew I
would see less flow rate, I did not expect not to see any water at all
with another tap open.

Plumber says this is partly due to the shower being piped through the
attic which is probably true. But generally speaking, we have to tell
people not to turn on any water either hot or cold when someone is in
the shower. Now that is a major bummer I have to say. We spent the
best part of three thousand pounds to *downgrade* the comfort level of
our ho****er. The thing is, the boiler itself is capable enough with
its 16l/35 degrees. The main culprit, imho which may be wrong, is the
mains flow rate. British Gas was the only one to have concerns over
this - so all credit to them for being more if you like theoretical by
actually measuring flow rate. The others turn on the taps and said oh
yes that will work well. The next issue is the way the house is piped
is made for the tank system. You can tell that not all taps or water
outlets have the same effect on the boiler. You can indeed survive the
washer or washing machine coming on in the shower, but less so the
bathroom or kitchen sink taps.

Another area of comfort loss is the hot water in the kitchen. The pipe
is very narrow in order to give the most pressure - due to the tank
system I would have thought. With a tank you then only turn on the tap
a tiny bit to get enough hot water without the pressure really. But
with a combi this does not work anymore as the combi basically
requires us to open the tap fully in order to get the combi fire up.
You can live with this sort of thing by changing your habits - always
wear an apron for starters and fill the sink with hot water before
washing up. But do you really want to be forced to change your habits
for a new boiler? Final issue is the condensation flue. It was
installed vertically, but we did not expect the amount vapour that
would come out there on cold days - nor did we expect all the noise.
The boiler is sound insulated except for the condensing flue which
means that our vertical flue works like a loud speaker. I am sure our
neighbours will hear it in their kitchen. Nobody pointed this out to
us at all - we knew about condensation, but certainly not about sound.

Would we do the job again? The premise was to get the bedroom free
from the tank. That much we have accomplished. By getting rid of the
old system we did something for our comfort due to less worry about a
breakdown, lower energy bills and for the environment by buying a
A-class boiler as opposed the about z that we had installed
beforehand. But ho****er comfort is crap. We are, in that sense,
totally disappointed by the system. We would certainly have asked for
quotes for tank systems and then encouraged the plumbers to find
better places for a tank. Maybe we would still have fitted the combi,
but next time round, we would be even more careful to think about the
possible implications of the pipework (e.g. shower through the attic -
no way!). As it stands, I can only warn people to think it through
properly before fitting a combi. We find plumbers in particular to be
working as empiricists, they solve problems as and when they come
along, but they don't seem to be able to think the whole process
through beforehand. My impression now is that we should have discussed
a number of factors in more detail, the boiler specs are probably the
least concern. I mean based on our experience, the Worcester Bosch
website is a joke: they claim that this boiler can serve two showers
at the same time - maybe in the summer with a water preheater and a
second mains pipe. We cannot even open another cold water outlet in
the house, so treat manufacturers claims with care. The reality
probably depends more on your setup.

I hope this helps other people in their decision making. I am trashing
combis, but their success depends on variables that we did not
properly understand before agreeing to the job.

Fred
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Christian McArdle
 
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We cannot even open another cold water outlet in the house, so treat
manufacturers claims with care. The reality probably depends more on your

setup.

If turning on a cold tap elsewhere in the house affects the shower, then the
problem is entirely with your cold water mains supply, or too thin pipework
within your house (or even a half closed stopcock). The boiler does not
appear to be at fault.

You may find things better if you install a pressure balancing valve just
before the shower. This will at least stop blasts of cold or hot water when
a tap is opened. You can also turn down isolating valves on the downstairs
taps to stop them hogging all the flow. However, the basic problem is that
the street is not providing as much water as you wish to use.

If the worst comes to the worst, you can feed the combi boiler off a cold
tank in the loft. At least you've still saved the cylinder space.

Christian.


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Tony Bryer
 
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In article ,
Tarquinlinbin wrote:
I always say that the day of the stored hot whater system is
not at an end and it still does have its place in certain
situations. There can be nothing more frustrating than waiting
for a combi to deliver hot water to your tap in less than
favourable conditions....


Cost and complication apart, there's no reason why you can't
install a combi to heat a cylinder in the usual way, just using
the combi's DHW for (say) sink and shower mixer.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser
http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm


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Dave Plowman (News)
 
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In article ,
Fred wrote:
I hope this helps other people in their decision making. I am trashing
combis, but their success depends on variables that we did not
properly understand before agreeing to the job.


I suspect they've used much of the original hot water runs simply to save
time and money. To change a storage hot water system to run off the mains
through a combi properly without long waits for the actual hot water
involves pretty well a total re-plumbing job in most houses.

--
*Oh, what a tangled website we weave when first we practice *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


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tarquinlinbin
 
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On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 13:42:47 GMT, Tony Bryer
wrote:

In article ,
Tarquinlinbin wrote:
I always say that the day of the stored hot whater system is
not at an end and it still does have its place in certain
situations. There can be nothing more frustrating than waiting
for a combi to deliver hot water to your tap in less than
favourable conditions....


Cost and complication apart, there's no reason why you can't
install a combi to heat a cylinder in the usual way, just using
the combi's DHW for (say) sink and shower mixer.

Agreed and its what I'd always at least propose for a customer of a
large house or one where lots of hot water might be required eg more
than one bathroom,lots of kids/family members etc..
  #7   Report Post  
Ed Sirett
 
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On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 12:15:50 +0000, Fred wrote:

snip
Oh no.


OK to rescue this I think you will have to rework a few pipes.
You need to get the boiler fed from as far back as possible.
Please measure the full on flow rate of the cold tap at the kitchen sink
or garden tap [1].
If you get 16l/min or more you are probably going to be able to rescue the
system. It might help to put a restriction on the flow immediately after
the T to the boiler feed.

You might have to upgrade the incoming main to 25mm MDPE rather than
7 lb./ft. lead.

The standing pressure is presumably quite enough to fill the boiler
primary circuit although that would only show you had 1.x bar if yoiu
have 2.x bar or more then really you have just got to get more water from
the street main.

I duuno but at this level of the market the boiler presumably has a
hot/cold standby mode option, this will help with the delays.
Re-route, re-size and lag pipes to the shower.

The only way this system could not be fixed is if the standing pressure
was very low (hardly enough to feed the old loft tank).


HTH

[1] This may be a pessimistic value if the garden tap is fed through one
of those 'kits' whcih make a pin hole (okay 5mm hole) in the side of a
mains pipe. Likewise if the sink is a monblock mixer fed via narrow
flexibles it will not be a good indicator.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html


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Fred
 
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"Ed Sirett" wrote:

On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 12:15:50 +0000, Fred wrote:

snip
Oh no.


OK to rescue this I think you will have to rework a few pipes.
You need to get the boiler fed from as far back as possible.
Please measure the full on flow rate of the cold tap at the kitchen sink
or garden tap [1].
If you get 16l/min or more you are probably going to be able to rescue the
system. It might help to put a restriction on the flow immediately after
the T to the boiler feed.


Having drowned my disappointment in a couple of pints the other day, I
can now think more clearly ;-) Measured the flow rate and immediately
realised the problem: I get round about 6l/min.

Now before you laugh, we measured flow rate before the job was
started. At the kitchen tap which is one of those mixers that increase
pressure through smaller pipes, we measured 11l/min and in the bath we
averaged between 15 and 18l/min by way of filling a bucket...

This leads to my question: am I right assuming that some isolation
valve or stop cock or whatever must be at fault here as the combi does
not influence the cold water flow rate? If so, where do I need to look
- or rather, where do I need to make my plumber look.

Tried the main stop cock on the street (there is no stop tap in the
house) and could not even see an influence of a few turns. I turned
clock wise for a while. Checked the isolation valves at various places
but could not find anything reasonable. Do I have to check at the
disused tanks in the loft? But I don't really know what to look for...

Sorry for my ignorance. You would have thought that plumbers are
getting paid to do this kind of work I am learning the hard way that
they only do as they are told.

Fred

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Andy Hall
 
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On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 17:47:38 GMT, (Fred) wrote:

"Ed Sirett" wrote:

On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 12:15:50 +0000, Fred wrote:

snip
Oh no.


OK to rescue this I think you will have to rework a few pipes.
You need to get the boiler fed from as far back as possible.
Please measure the full on flow rate of the cold tap at the kitchen sink
or garden tap [1].
If you get 16l/min or more you are probably going to be able to rescue the
system. It might help to put a restriction on the flow immediately after
the T to the boiler feed.


Having drowned my disappointment in a couple of pints the other day, I
can now think more clearly ;-) Measured the flow rate and immediately
realised the problem: I get round about 6l/min


Measured where though? Was it the same tap with no changes in the
kitchen that you describe below?


Now before you laugh, we measured flow rate before the job was
started. At the kitchen tap which is one of those mixers that increase
pressure through smaller pipes, we measured 11l/min and in the bath we
averaged between 15 and 18l/min by way of filling a bucket...


But was this from the roof tank for the bath before? The hot
certainly would have been, but was the cold tank fed as well? This
sort of range sounds typical for a tank over one floor through 22mm
pipe.


This leads to my question: am I right assuming that some isolation
valve or stop cock or whatever must be at fault here as the combi does
not influence the cold water flow rate? If so, where do I need to look
- or rather, where do I need to make my plumber look.


It could be some crud that has been dislodged during the plumbing.


Tried the main stop cock on the street (there is no stop tap in the
house) and could not even see an influence of a few turns. I turned
clock wise for a while. Checked the isolation valves at various places
but could not find anything reasonable. Do I have to check at the
disused tanks in the loft? But I don't really know what to look for...

Sorry for my ignorance. You would have thought that plumbers are
getting paid to do this kind of work I am learning the hard way that
they only do as they are told.

Fred



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
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Fred
 
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Andy Hall wrote:

On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 17:47:38 GMT, (Fred) wrote:

"Ed Sirett" wrote:

On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 12:15:50 +0000, Fred wrote:

snip
Oh no.


OK to rescue this I think you will have to rework a few pipes.
You need to get the boiler fed from as far back as possible.
Please measure the full on flow rate of the cold tap at the kitchen sink
or garden tap [1].
If you get 16l/min or more you are probably going to be able to rescue the
system. It might help to put a restriction on the flow immediately after
the T to the boiler feed.


Having drowned my disappointment in a couple of pints the other day, I
can now think more clearly ;-) Measured the flow rate and immediately
realised the problem: I get round about 6l/min


Measured where though? Was it the same tap with no changes in the
kitchen that you describe below?


To call what I do when I measure measure is a bit much. I estimate
with a bucket, or rather with the capacity of the sink as measured by
the bucket.

It's quite consistent througout the house now at about 6l/min as
opposed to about 15l/min beforehand. Various forms of tap (bath,
shower, sink) have already differed beforehand, but the ballpark
figures remain the same.

But was this from the roof tank for the bath before? The hot
certainly would have been, but was the cold tank fed as well? This
sort of range sounds typical for a tank over one floor through 22mm
pipe.


Now *that* is a good point. Naive as I am I never assumed that all
cold comes from mains rather than tank. But I have one more point to
make: we knew beforehand that flowrate would be a problem. We
therefore did a very basic test by opening all cold water taps in the
house. We saw an effect but still got decent enough flow rate on all
of them. Right now, we cannot even open two cold water taps anymore
without one of them going, uh, silent.

It could be some crud that has been dislodged during the plumbing.


That means to me: check main stop cock on the street, check the attic
and the way the tank was handled during the conversion. But after
that: opening all the floorboards and check on all the piping.

Would this be reason enough to withhold payment for the job btw?

Fred



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Andy Hall
 
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On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 19:14:01 GMT, (Fred) wrote:



Having drowned my disappointment in a couple of pints the other day, I
can now think more clearly ;-) Measured the flow rate and immediately
realised the problem: I get round about 6l/min


Measured where though? Was it the same tap with no changes in the
kitchen that you describe below?


To call what I do when I measure measure is a bit much. I estimate
with a bucket, or rather with the capacity of the sink as measured by
the bucket.

It's quite consistent througout the house now at about 6l/min as
opposed to about 15l/min beforehand. Various forms of tap (bath,
shower, sink) have already differed beforehand, but the ballpark
figures remain the same.


OK, so to be completely clear.....

You measured at the kitchen tap before the work and got 15lpm (ish).

You have measured at the same tap and now it's down to 6lpm.

Did the plumber change anything between where the pipe comes up
through the floor (or wherever it comes in) and the kitchen tap?

If he didn't, then it does rather suggest either some kind of blockage
or even an issue out at the stoptap in the street; unless he has added
in an internal stop tap somewhere on the path to the kitchen sink and
it isn't turned fully on.

Getting 6lpm everywhere now is not surprising, given that all is now
mains derived.



But was this from the roof tank for the bath before? The hot
certainly would have been, but was the cold tank fed as well? This
sort of range sounds typical for a tank over one floor through 22mm
pipe.


Now *that* is a good point. Naive as I am I never assumed that all
cold comes from mains rather than tank.


Oh no. It might but it might not.

But I have one more point to
make: we knew beforehand that flowrate would be a problem. We
therefore did a very basic test by opening all cold water taps in the
house. We saw an effect but still got decent enough flow rate on all
of them. Right now, we cannot even open two cold water taps anymore
without one of them going, uh, silent.


At 6lpm, it isn't going to be any good.

Equally, the plumber should have made sure that the water coming from
the main was good enough an dshould certainly have known the
difference between what was mains and what was not.

This is very easy to do. All you have to do is hold your hand over
the tap. If it's hard to do, then it's mains pressure. Too late for
that now though.


It could be some crud that has been dislodged during the plumbing.


That means to me: check main stop cock on the street, check the attic
and the way the tank was handled during the conversion. But after
that: opening all the floorboards and check on all the piping.


Pretty much, but you would have to start disconnecting pipes to get
very far.

One thing that you could try is to open the kitchen tap full. This is
so that any dislodged crud will tend to flush out of there rather than
through the boiler. Then turn the street stop tap all the way off
and all the way on a couple of times. I was able to clear a
problem that was once where there had been a build up of sediment
around the stop tap.




Would this be reason enough to withhold payment for the job btw?


I would. Basically, as far as you're concerned, there was a flow of
15lpm+ before and now it's down to 6lpm. that isn't good enough.

It may be that something has dislodged from the pipe from the street
and caused a part blockage. If that's because the pipework is old etc.
then it's not directly the plumber's fault, although one could argue
that he should have flushed it through before installing.

Your other option is to contact the water supplier if it proves to be
a problem at the stop tap. They have to provide you with at least
9lpm at the kitchen tap, but if the issue is on your property, you
would have to pay.






Fred



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
  #12   Report Post  
Fred
 
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Andy Hall wrote:

On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 19:14:01 GMT, (Fred) wrote:

OK, so to be completely clear.....

You measured at the kitchen tap before the work and got 15lpm (ish).

You have measured at the same tap and now it's down to 6lpm.


Yepp. That's it.

Did the plumber change anything between where the pipe comes up
through the floor (or wherever it comes in) and the kitchen tap?


No, certainly not in the kitchen.

At 6lpm, it isn't going to be any good.

Equally, the plumber should have made sure that the water coming from
the main was good enough an dshould certainly have known the
difference between what was mains and what was not.

This is very easy to do. All you have to do is hold your hand over
the tap. If it's hard to do, then it's mains pressure. Too late for
that now though.


Well, that's the thing. British gas man measured flow rate at the
kitchen tap (which I suppose is not the right tap to measure it as it
is a mixer of some sort). Large local did not measure anything, small
local measured pressure. What do I know about the right way of
measuring anything? Well, I would not pay the plumber if I knew how to
do it all myself.

One thing that you could try is to open the kitchen tap full. This is
so that any dislodged crud will tend to flush out of there rather than
through the boiler. Then turn the street stop tap all the way off
and all the way on a couple of times. I was able to clear a
problem that was once where there had been a build up of sediment
around the stop tap.


The thing is this: they did never turn off the water completely. They
turned on all the taps to prevent the water from rising. I know
because I accidentally turned off the taps and had immediate water
spillage where the tank used to be. That kind of indicates to me that
it cannot have been mains.

But *none* of the plumbers pointed this out to me. And they *all* saw
the tank.




Would this be reason enough to withhold payment for the job btw?


I would. Basically, as far as you're concerned, there was a flow of
15lpm+ before and now it's down to 6lpm. that isn't good enough.


Ok. I know that 15l/min is not great, but it is usable. 6lpm is a joke
as far as I am concerned.

It may be that something has dislodged from the pipe from the street
and caused a part blockage. If that's because the pipework is old etc.
then it's not directly the plumber's fault, although one could argue
that he should have flushed it through before installing.

Your other option is to contact the water supplier if it proves to be
a problem at the stop tap. They have to provide you with at least
9lpm at the kitchen tap, but if the issue is on your property, you
would have to pay.


You and a couple of other guys in here are a god sent. I hope you make
enough money in whatever you do. You know what, I would pay for
someone like you only to oversee the project, maybe select the plumber
and explain in good English stuff so that I can understand. You would
not have to do any work at all, just make sure that these people do a
proper job. I thought that I am reasonably competent handling
tradespeople, but the amount of time and energy I lost over this
particular project is immense, let alone loss of productivity at work.
But as you say: too late now.

Fred

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Andy Hall
 
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On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 20:33:21 GMT, (Fred) wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:

On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 19:14:01 GMT,
(Fred) wrote:

OK, so to be completely clear.....

You measured at the kitchen tap before the work and got 15lpm (ish).

You have measured at the same tap and now it's down to 6lpm.


Yepp. That's it.

Did the plumber change anything between where the pipe comes up
through the floor (or wherever it comes in) and the kitchen tap?


No, certainly not in the kitchen.

At 6lpm, it isn't going to be any good.

Equally, the plumber should have made sure that the water coming from
the main was good enough an dshould certainly have known the
difference between what was mains and what was not.

This is very easy to do. All you have to do is hold your hand over
the tap. If it's hard to do, then it's mains pressure. Too late for
that now though.


Well, that's the thing. British gas man measured flow rate at the
kitchen tap (which I suppose is not the right tap to measure it as it
is a mixer of some sort).


It is the conventional place to measure.


Large local did not measure anything, small
local measured pressure.


It's largely pointless measuring pressure because the pressure can be
high with the tap turned off and fall dramatically when it's turned on
because of a restriction or simply an inadequate pipe.

What do I know about the right way of
measuring anything? Well, I would not pay the plumber if I knew how to
do it all myself.


It does make you wonder. Flow rate can be measured with a bucket and
a second hand on your watch. Not sophisticated.... :-)



One thing that you could try is to open the kitchen tap full. This is
so that any dislodged crud will tend to flush out of there rather than
through the boiler. Then turn the street stop tap all the way off
and all the way on a couple of times. I was able to clear a
problem that was once where there had been a build up of sediment
around the stop tap.


The thing is this: they did never turn off the water completely. They
turned on all the taps to prevent the water from rising.


Hmmmm........

I know
because I accidentally turned off the taps and had immediate water
spillage where the tank used to be. That kind of indicates to me that
it cannot have been mains.

But *none* of the plumbers pointed this out to me. And they *all* saw
the tank.


You say taps - plural.

Was this the kitchen tap and bathroom cold taps?





Would this be reason enough to withhold payment for the job btw?


I would. Basically, as far as you're concerned, there was a flow of
15lpm+ before and now it's down to 6lpm. that isn't good enough.


Ok. I know that 15l/min is not great, but it is usable. 6lpm is a joke
as far as I am concerned.


No it's hopeless. However, if the water flow from the street is
only 6lpm, then in one sense it is not the plumber's fault.
However, he should have measured and advised you accordingly.



It may be that something has dislodged from the pipe from the street
and caused a part blockage. If that's because the pipework is old etc.
then it's not directly the plumber's fault, although one could argue
that he should have flushed it through before installing.

Your other option is to contact the water supplier if it proves to be
a problem at the stop tap. They have to provide you with at least
9lpm at the kitchen tap, but if the issue is on your property, you
would have to pay.


You and a couple of other guys in here are a god sent. I hope you make
enough money in whatever you do. You know what, I would pay for
someone like you only to oversee the project, maybe select the plumber
and explain in good English stuff so that I can understand. You would
not have to do any work at all, just make sure that these people do a
proper job. I thought that I am reasonably competent handling
tradespeople, but the amount of time and energy I lost over this
particular project is immense, let alone loss of productivity at work.
But as you say: too late now.


Don't feel bad. I am sure that it can be rescued.

I would ask the plumber to come back and check what is really going
on.

I did have a fleeting thought that perhaps the kitchen tap was fed
from the tank. This would give an explanation as to why it was OK and
now isn;t - i.e. the main only ever delivered 6lpm. This would be
highly unusual though.

However, since water continued to run with cold taps turned on, it
suggests that these were and are from the mains. Also, you wouldn't
have been able to stop water reaching the tank by turning them on.

Don't be afraid to wheel him back.



--

..andy

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