We're about to install a new en-suite bathroom ourselves, but to gain
the space to do this we need to lose our hot water tank and re-site
the boiler. As the boiler is 15 years old we're happy to replace it
and it's been sugggested that we install a condensing combi boiler.
But on doing some research I have found lots of differing opinions as
to the suitability of a combi boiler. My mum's had one for 16 years
and loves it.
We live in a 5 bedroomed 3 reception house with one bathroom and a
downstairs loo. The bathroom has an electric shower which we would
keep. The new ensuite is to have a sink, toilet and shower, to run off
of the new boiler. There are just the 2 of us in the house as the kids
have (nearly) left home, and we use the shower regularly and the bath
very rarely. We also have a washing machine and dishwasher.
Please could anyone advise me as to whether a combi boiler would be Ok
for us, and advice gratefully received. We are also considering
installing a water softener at the same time.
Thanks
Lynne

On 22 Aug 2004 08:50:42 -0700, (Lynne
Chapman) wrote:

We're about to install a new en-suite bathroom ourselves, but to gain
the space to do this we need to lose our hot water tank and re-site
the boiler. As the boiler is 15 years old we're happy to replace it
and it's been sugggested that we install a condensing combi boiler.
But on doing some research I have found lots of differing opinions as
to the suitability of a combi boiler. My mum's had one for 16 years
and loves it.
We live in a 5 bedroomed 3 reception house with one bathroom and a
downstairs loo. The bathroom has an electric shower which we would
keep. The new ensuite is to have a sink, toilet and shower, to run off
of the new boiler. There are just the 2 of us in the house as the kids
have (nearly) left home, and we use the shower regularly and the bath
very rarely. We also have a washing machine and dishwasher.
Please could anyone advise me as to whether a combi boiler would be Ok
for us, and advice gratefully received. We are also considering
installing a water softener at the same time.
Thanks
Lynne

From what you say, Lynne, this sounds reasonable.

The things to consider a

- Is the water flow good enough? Check it at the kitchen tap by
timing how long it takes to fill a container of known size. If you
are getting at least 20 litres per minute, then it should be adequate,
although 30 would be better.. If it's only 10-12 then it is not.

- Do you think it's possible that the bathroom shower will be switched
over to running from the boiler in the period of time that you expect
to stay in the house or that if this is a shortish term that you might
want to upgrade the bathroom to perhaps improve saleability?
This turns it into a two shower requirement, especially if the house
becomes more populated after a sale.

The first of these points is a go/no go for using any form of mains
fed hot water, including a combi (although some can be run from a roof
tank. and you'd still save the cylinder space).
You can potentially get the water service pipe from the road upgraded
if the flow is poor, but that depends on what the main there can de
and can be costly.

The second point is on sizing. It would make sense to go for a
28-30kW (at least) output boiler to provide adequate capacity in case
you do need to account for additional requirements. On the heating
side it doesn't matter about possible oversizing because they self
adjust (modulate) down to the requirement at any point in time.





..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Lynne Chapman wrote:

As Andy said, the showstopper is if you have insufficent flow of cold
water from the mains. Assuming that is OK then your circumstances sound
like an ideal match for a combi.

We live in a 5 bedroomed 3 reception house with one bathroom and a
downstairs loo. The bathroom has an electric shower which we would

How many radiators out of interest? Is the place well insulated?

Chances are you can probably ignore the heating side of the equation
althgether since if you choose a boiler that will give you the hot water
performance you want, then it will usually be more than adequate when
running the heating.

very rarely. We also have a washing machine and dishwasher.

You ought to make sure your new shower is thermostatically controlled,
that way you wont experiance changes in temperature when you are in the
shower and the washing machine decides its time to refill.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Lynne Chapman" wrote in message
om...
We're about to install a new en-suite bathroom ourselves, but to gain
the space to do this we need to lose our hot water tank and re-site
the boiler. As the boiler is 15 years old we're happy to replace it
and it's been sugggested that we install a condensing combi boiler.
But on doing some research I have found lots of differing opinions as
to the suitability of a combi boiler. My mum's had one for 16 years
and loves it.
We live in a 5 bedroomed 3 reception house with one bathroom and a
downstairs loo. The bathroom has an electric shower which we would
keep. The new ensuite is to have a sink, toilet and shower, to run off
of the new boiler. There are just the 2 of us in the house as the kids
have (nearly) left home, and we use the shower regularly and the bath
very rarely. We also have a washing machine and dishwasher.
Please could anyone advise me as to whether a combi boiler would be Ok
for us, and advice gratefully received. We are also considering
installing a water softener at the same time.
Thanks
Lynne

Go for a high flow combi, if the mains flow is OK.
1. Vaillant AquaPlus
2. Alpha CB50
3. Worcester-Bosch Greenstar 40kW

Cheap condesning boilers available from:
http://www.uselessenergy.org.uk/boil...s.asp#wallhung


A combi explanation for you....

Firstly, a combi is a "combination" of the heating and water system in one
case, eliminating external tanks and cylinders, and generally supply hot
water at high main pressure. To confuse a little, some can run at very low
pressures and even off tanks. Generally most are fed from the mains. It is
generally a matter of mounting the boiler and connect up the pipes. The
expert designers have done the hard work for you and put all in one case.

There are three types of combi:

1) The Infinitely Continuous Combi -

Heats cold mains water instantly as it runs through the combi. It never runs
out of hot water. This is the most common type of combi, generally having
lower flowrates than Nos 2 & 3 below. The largest flow rate instant combi is
a two bathroom model, 22 litres/min ECO-Hometec. Being a condenser it is
very economical too. http://www.eco-hometec.co.uk

2) Unvented Cylinder Combi -

An unvented cylinder is a similar to a conventional cylinder but run off the
high-pressure cold mains. A combi with an integral unvented cylinder has
approx 60 litre cylinder heated to approx 80C, with a quick recovery coil
that takes all the boilers output. A fast acting cylinder thermostat ensures
the boiler pumps heat into the cylinder ASAP with a recovery rate from cold
around 5-8 mins (Ariston claim 8 mins). The 80C water is blended down to
about 45-50C. e.g's, Ariston Genus 27 Plus, Glow Worm, Powermax, Alpha
CB50.

3) Invinately Continuous/Unvented cylinder combi -

The Alpha CB50 is a combination of both having atwo stage flowrate, of high
flowrate when using the stored water with an automatic flow regulator
switching in to reduce flow to an invinately continuous flowrate of approx
11 litres/min.
http://www.alpha-boilers.com/products/CB50.html

4) Heat Bank Combi -

Incoming water is instantly heated running through a plate heat exchanger
(as is most instantaneous combi's) that takes its heat from a "domestic hot
water only" store of water at approx 80C (instantaneous combi's take the
heat from a heat-exchanger heater via the burner). A fast acting thermostat
ensures the boiler pumps all of its heat into the store ASAP with a recovery
rate about 5-8 mins from cold. The 80C water is blended down to about
45-50C. They are generally two stage flow rates, in that when the thermal
store is exhausted it reverts to what the bunrer can produce, which is
approx 11-12 litre/minute. e.g. Vokera & Worcester floor standing models
(standard washing machine sizes).

N.B. The heat bank is a variation of a thermal store, but is "not" a thermal
store in the conventional sense in that a coil carrying cold mains water
runs though a store of hot water kept at about 80C. Heat-banks are far more
efficient and give higher flowrates than conventional coiled thermal stores.
The stainless steel plate heat-exchangers do not scale up so easily.

5) Combined Primary Storage Unit
(Not classed as a combi, but a derivative of a combi, but still a one box
solution, so still in the same family)

These are a combination of a large thermal store, or heat bank, and boiler
in one casing. The units are large (larger than standard washing machine
size) and floor mounted. The heating is taken off the thermal store, which
in many cases the DHW taken off the store using a plate heat-exchanger
(heat-bank). Unlike the Heat-bank in 3) above the thermal store supplies
heating "and" DHW, giving the "combined" to the title. They are available
from 1 to 2.5 bathroom models. Gledhill do an excellent condensing
version, the Gulfsream 2000. http://www.gledhill.net

Nos. 2) 3) 4) & 5) have high flowrates. No. 1 "generally" has low flowrates
but there are always exceptions and some can be high - e.g. the ECO-Hometec
infinitely continuous combi, actually has a very high flowrate. Nos 2), 3)
4) & 5) use stored water, but in different ways. Unlike No. 1 "some"
versions will eventually run cold, but that takes quite a time, hence some
are referred to as "two bathroom" models, having the ability to fill two
baths with very fast recovery rates. As hot water is being drawn off the
high rating burner is also reheating. Very rare do these combi's run out of
hot water in average use. When taking one shower the burner may be
re-heating faster than what can be drawn-off. No. 3) above uses stored
water but will not run out of hot water (high and low flowrates). Most
versions of N. 4) above are two stage flowrate models (high and low
flowrates) and will also not run out of hot water.

There are combi models that give hot water and heating simultaneously as
Combined Primary Storage Units do. Most don't as they are hot water
priority.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

go ideal isar he30


"Lynne Chapman" wrote in message
om...
We're about to install a new en-suite bathroom ourselves, but to gain
the space to do this we need to lose our hot water tank and re-site
the boiler. As the boiler is 15 years old we're happy to replace it
and it's been sugggested that we install a condensing combi boiler.
But on doing some research I have found lots of differing opinions as
to the suitability of a combi boiler. My mum's had one for 16 years
and loves it.
We live in a 5 bedroomed 3 reception house with one bathroom and a
downstairs loo. The bathroom has an electric shower which we would
keep. The new ensuite is to have a sink, toilet and shower, to run off
of the new boiler. There are just the 2 of us in the house as the kids
have (nearly) left home, and we use the shower regularly and the bath
very rarely. We also have a washing machine and dishwasher.
Please could anyone advise me as to whether a combi boiler would be Ok
for us, and advice gratefully received. We are also considering
installing a water softener at the same time.
Thanks
Lynne

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 20:07:50 +0100, "IMM" wrote:



Cheap condesning boilers available from:
http://www.uselessenergy.org.uk/boil...s.asp#wallhung




I wonder if that organisation realises that its URL could be read in
two ways......


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl