"John" wrote in message
...

snip
About the same time a lot of continental copper pipe was imported to
overcome the shortages but which seems to have had particles of some
corrodible metal in it. Over the years these have corroded away and
formed
pinholes. The trade used it in good faith and found out afterwards what
crap it really was. Some lengths had one particle in them somewhere and
some lengths have revealed a great number of them which produces,
eventually, something akin to a watering can spreader bar for putting
weedkiller on the lawn!

Also known as "what is that hissing noise and why is the floor wet?" :-(

WIPE off any external flux while still hot. This is easy to do but
plumbers never seem to bother. It eventually makes a green mess if you
leave it.


I got bollocked by a Corgi regd guy for wiping the joint - he was adamant
that this was a fail on a trade test if you did that (been a heating
engineer for 50+ years)
His reasons were that the solder ring should form and you should leave it at
that, if youy wipe it yopu stand the chance of wiping impurities into the
joint.


Rick

"Rick Hughes" wrote in message
...
WIPE off any external flux while still hot. This is easy to do but
plumbers never seem to bother. It eventually makes a green mess if you
leave it.


I got bollocked by a Corgi regd guy for wiping the joint - he was adamant
that this was a fail on a trade test if you did that (been a heating
engineer for 50+ years)
His reasons were that the solder ring should form and you should leave it
at
that, if youy wipe it yopu stand the chance of wiping impurities into the
joint.


Rick

Wipe it off when cold?

In article ,
David W.E. Roberts wrote:
Wipe it off when cold?

Yes - if using a modern flux it's water soluble, and comes off easily. I
think the original article is referring to Fluxite type paste - which
isn't as good anyway.

--
*Avoid clichés like the plague. (They're old hat.) *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

"IMM" wrote in message news:bgg67d$hq8

You have hit it. Plastic fittings and pipe bend. Copper pipe and brass
fittings do nort and make better seals. DPS use copper pipe and brass
push-fit on their heat-banks to fit the controls.

Also plastic is best clipped either side of the joint to prevent stress on
the joint as you experience in the tank connectors, meaning many clips are
required, which is more time. One of the reasons professionals give it a
miss, as they can install a copper system just as fast and cheaper.
developers use plastic in the first fix, so the Travellers don't pinch it
for scrap and unskilled cheap labour can do the fitting with professionals
finishing in copper and commissioning.

No, it was copper pipe I was using into the push-fit tank connectors
causing the problem. I think if I had used plastic I would have got
away with it. The greater rigidity of the copper pipe made it harder
to work with as it was not 100% square and created a greater side
force.

About to re-route the pipes from the tank now using 22mm plastic pipe
(After spending ages sorting the copper originally). Will let you know
how I get on.



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.488 / Virus Database: 287 - Release Date: 05/06/2003

"StealthUK" wrote in message
om...
"IMM" wrote in message news:bgg67d$hq8

You have hit it. Plastic fittings and pipe bend. Copper pipe and brass
fittings do nort and make better seals. DPS use copper pipe and brass
push-fit on their heat-banks to fit the controls.

Also plastic is best clipped either side of the joint to prevent stress
on
the joint as you experience in the tank connectors, meaning many clips
are
required, which is more time. One of the reasons professionals give it a
miss, as they can install a copper system just as fast and cheaper.
developers use plastic in the first fix, so the Travellers don't pinch
it
for scrap and unskilled cheap labour can do the fitting with
professionals
finishing in copper and commissioning.

No, it was copper pipe I was using into the push-fit tank connectors
causing the problem. I think if I had used plastic I would have got
away with it. The greater rigidity of the copper pipe made it harder
to work with as it was not 100% square and created a greater side
force.

If you used copper pipe and brass push-fit the problem would not happen. If
a copper pipe is slightly ovalled it will round up as it enters the rigid
brass fitting.



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.488 / Virus Database: 287 - Release Date: 05/06/2003

"David W.E. Roberts" wrote:
"Rick Hughes" wrote...
WIPE off any external flux while still hot. This is easy
to do but plumbers never seem to bother. It eventually
makes a green mess if you leave it.

I got bollocked by a Corgi regd guy for wiping the joint -
he was adamant that this was a fail on a trade test if you
did that (been a heating engineer for 50+ years) His reasons
were that the solder ring should form and you should leave
it at that, if youy wipe it yopu stand the chance of wiping
impurities into the joint.

He is right that you must not wipe off the joing while it is
hot, but for the wrong reason! There are at least two valid
reasons: 1) When you wipe the join you may mechanically
disturb it as the solder sets - this may cause the equivalent
of a "dry joint" and be subject to leakage; 2) Fast cooling,
say when you wipe with a damp cloth, can lead to the formation
of "large" crystals in the solder, and even cause a shattering
effect on the solder in the joint, which may be mechanically
reasonable in appearance, but be in fact porous. You can test
both these (rather extremely, but it will show the effects,
quite easily. For the first, couple two convenient lengths of
15mm tube, hold each end of the pipework with pliers, and
wiggle the tubes about constantly while the solder solidifies.
Inspect. For the second case, join two short pieces of tube,
and before the solder solidifies drop the whole thing into a
pail of cold water. Inspect.


Wipe it off when cold?

That's it - as mentioned elsewhere modern fluxes are water-
soluble (which is why you shouldn't drink from new pipework,
the water in it will contain dissolved flux for a while), so
a damp rag will clean off the flux - for "fluxite" and other
types mechanical cleaning with steel wool is the way to go.
--



__________________________________________________ ______________
Sent via the PAXemail system at paxemail.com

In article ,
Phil Addison wrote:
'Wiping' in the context of my note indeed refers to wiping off the flux,
and I take Dave Plowman's point that the green residue from modern flux
is water soluble. Using classic Fluxite (a brown, greasy product), I
find that it wipes off easily when still quite hot, using a dry rag. A
dry rag will not chill and crystalise the joint, as "jerrybuilt"
explained.

I knew what you meant. ;-) And Fluxite will wipe off while the pipe is
still hot, but long after the solder has set. It just takes a little
experience to know when this is.

--
*Always borrow money from pessimists - they don't expect it back *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

Phil Addison wrote:
Solder for capillary fittings is tin-rich and does not have a
pasty phase.

No? Not at all? In that case, if you heat up a test join and
continually move it as the solder solidifies, the joint strength
won't be compromised - is that what you're saying?


__________________________________________________ ______________
Sent via the PAXemail system at paxemail.com

On Thu, 7 Aug 2003 12:59:11 -0400, in uk.d-i-y "jerrybuilt "
] wrote:
Phil Addison wrote:
Solder for capillary fittings is tin-rich and does not have a
pasty phase.

No? Not at all? In that case, if you heat up a test join and
continually move it as the solder solidifies, the joint strength
won't be compromised - is that what you're saying?

No, of course not. Did you forgot the /pedant mode/ warning?

Just for you...

Solder for capillary fittings is tin-rich and does not have a *a wide*
pasty phase.

--
Phil Addison
The uk.d-i-y FAQ is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/
Replace NO DOT SPAM with BIGFOOT DOT COM to reply

Phil Addison wrote:
"jerrybuilt " wrote:
Phil Addison wrote:
Solder for capillary fittings is tin-rich and does not have a
pasty phase.

No? Not at all? In that case, if you heat up a test join and
continually move it as the solder solidifies, the joint strength
won't be compromised - is that what you're saying?

No, of course not. Did you forgot the /pedant mode/ warning?

Just for you...

Solder for capillary fittings is tin-rich and does not have a
*a wide* pasty phase.

Thank you. So you appreciate why handling/wiping a hot solder
fiting is not recommended. You can do it, I can do it - but
some grunt somewhere could well bog it up unless ordered not
to touch it when warm (on pain of having the re-heated join
inserted somewhere!).



__________________________________________________ ______________
Sent via the PAXemail system at paxemail.com

Phil Addison wrote:
You have correctly pointed out that using a *damp* cloth
prematurely while [a soldered pipe joint is]hot will cause
crystallization. On the other hand I pointed out that using
a *dry* cloth on *Fluxite* type flux when still quite hot
makes it easier to clean off. I don't see any conflict here.
The point about not disturbing the joint until it has set is
valid in all situations.

QED.


__________________________________________________ ______________
Sent via the PAXemail system at paxemail.com

[I am told there was a very bad batch of copper many years back

There was some shennigans in Africa and pipe was made in half thickness
until supplies were restored. It definitely wasn't the time to be installing
central heating or rewiring.

Christian.

Bear in mind that this is a personal opinion.
You find it easy.
I don't.

As a rule, it is easy, with no real "technique" involved, provided all the
preparation is done. If you are wire wooling, using the correct flux and the
correct solder, it is almost certainly the torch which is at fault. For
plumbing, don't use a wide nozzled torch designed for paint stripping. You
need a narrow ended torch that takes a big canister and has piezo ignition.
If you spent less than 20-25 pounds on it, then the torch is not big enough.

Christian.