I've just kitted out my garage with a workbench and realised that it's
not the most comfortable place to stand for hours when it's chilly. So
I'm thinking about a heater - more specifically one of those 1kW Halogen
near-infra-red heaters which I understand might heat me (and my
otherwise frozen fingers) better than a fan heater trying to add heat to
limitless amounts of cold air. I've seen such heaters for around £20.
Drawbacks on this direct radiant heat approach?

--

Adrian C

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 00:03:04 +0000, Adrian C wrote:

I've just kitted out my garage with a workbench and realised that it's
not the most comfortable place to stand for hours when it's chilly. So
I'm thinking about a heater - more specifically one of those 1kW Halogen
near-infra-red heaters which I understand might heat me (and my
otherwise frozen fingers) better than a fan heater trying to add heat to
limitless amounts of cold air. I've seen such heaters for around £20.
Drawbacks on this direct radiant heat approach?

A popular solution here is to use one of those 300/500 watt
floodlights. They put out a fierce radiant heat and decent working
light.

Kills two birds with one stone and reasonably cheap.

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 00:03:04 +0000, Adrian C wrote:

I've just kitted out my garage with a workbench and realised that it's
not the most comfortable place to stand for hours when it's chilly. So
I'm thinking about a heater - more specifically one of those 1kW Halogen
near-infra-red heaters which I understand might heat me (and my
otherwise frozen fingers) better than a fan heater trying to add heat to
limitless amounts of cold air. I've seen such heaters for around £20.
Drawbacks on this direct radiant heat approach?


If you're going to spend a long time and use the garage seriously,
then it would be far better to insulate the garage. You could then
use a couple of kW of heat of any form and be comfortable.

A small directed heater will only provide very local warming and you
will feel cold as you move from place to place.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 00:03:04 +0000, Adrian C wrote:

So I'm thinking about a heater - more specifically one of those 1kW Halogen
near-infra-red heaters

White plates, no red glow ? I've got 500W of that directly over the
workbench. It's enough, but I wish it was 1kW.

--
Smert' spamionam

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 00:03:04 +0000, Adrian C wrote:

So I'm thinking about a heater - more specifically one of those 1kW
Halogen
near-infra-red heaters

White plates, no red glow ? I've got 500W of that directly over the
workbench. It's enough, but I wish it was 1kW.

--
Smert' spamionam




I also find it helps to have one's feet off the cold floor. Duckboards or
even pallets can help with this in the bench area.

Pete

In article ,
Peter Stockdale wrote:

I also find it helps to have one's feet off the cold floor.
Duckboards or even pallets can help with this in the bench area.

Yes, a pair of 'ski boots' also helps.

The real problem I have with working in the garage
is that everything that has to be touched or picked
up is icy cold, with the inevitable effect on the
fingertips. Gloves help of course, but can be too
clumsy for some jobs.

--
Tony Williams.

Tony Williams wrote:
In article ,
Peter Stockdale wrote:

I also find it helps to have one's feet off the cold floor.
Duckboards or even pallets can help with this in the bench area.

Yes, a pair of 'ski boots' also helps.

The real problem I have with working in the garage
is that everything that has to be touched or picked
up is icy cold, with the inevitable effect on the
fingertips. Gloves help of course, but can be too
clumsy for some jobs.

that's exactly what I was about to post.

there's no substitute for insulation and I've often wondered how
hard it would be to run some well insulated feed and return
hep20 type tube down to the garage and install a radiator.



RT

Andy Dingley wrote:
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 00:03:04 +0000, Adrian C wrote:


So I'm thinking about a heater - more specifically one of those 1kW Halogen
near-infra-red heaters


White plates, no red glow ? I've got 500W of that directly over the
workbench. It's enough, but I wish it was 1kW.


Nope, I was thinking of the ones that glow.
http://www.robertdyas.co.uk
- put "GMIHAL" in the search box

(Is this a repackaged sun lamp? Will I end up looking like Kat Slater?)

Thanks for other comments. I'm eventually going to be putting in a room
divider, some insulation and carpet when funds/time permits. It would
enable me to put a server out there without the condensation problems -
and *that* would probably double up a fan heater! The divider will
hopefully cut down on the dust drawn in from the drive-in (a rubble
track) by the car.

At the moment, though, I'm drawn to the direct heat approach.

--

Adrian C

I've just kitted out my garage with a workbench and realised that it's
not the most comfortable place to stand for hours when it's chilly. So
I'm thinking about a heater - more specifically one of those 1kW Halogen
near-infra-red heaters which I understand might heat me (and my
otherwise frozen fingers) better than a fan heater trying to add heat to
limitless amounts of cold air. I've seen such heaters for around £20.
Drawbacks on this direct radiant heat approach?



Wuss!

"Adrian C" wrote in message
...
I've just kitted out my garage with a workbench and realised that it's not
the most comfortable place to stand for hours when it's chilly. So I'm
thinking about a heater - more specifically one of those 1kW Halogen
near-infra-red heaters which I understand might heat me (and my otherwise
frozen fingers) better than a fan heater trying to add heat to limitless
amounts of cold air. I've seen such heaters for around £20. Drawbacks on
this direct radiant heat approach?

none really. cheap and effective. obviously everybody would prefer a
nicely insulated and heat garage though.

Steve

"Tony Williams" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Peter Stockdale wrote:

I also find it helps to have one's feet off the cold floor.
Duckboards or even pallets can help with this in the bench area.

Yes, a pair of 'ski boots' also helps.

The real problem I have with working in the garage
is that everything that has to be touched or picked
up is icy cold, with the inevitable effect on the
fingertips. Gloves help of course, but can be too
clumsy for some jobs.

It's very cold today and Spouse keeps coming in to warm his hands. He says
tht the very thin ply he's working with seems to be sucking the heat from
his fingers. Gloves would be impossible for the job he's doing - or most of
them because he's usually making very small items.

He stands on boards and mats, is wearing thick shoes and socks and I've told
him to keep the door closed and put on the fan heater. He - anyone - needs
to be comfortable in such circumstances. If you're not you don't do a good
job.

We'd like to know if there's anything more efficient in fuel use and heating
than the fan heater though. He won't use a gas heater because of wood dust
and flammble materials. An electric convector heater takes a long time to
warm the space.

He's not a wuss (and it's silly and offensive to accuse anyone of that).

Mary

--
Tony Williams.

"Mary Fisher" wrote
| We'd like to know if there's anything more efficient in fuel use and
| heating than the fan heater though. He won't use a gas heater because
| of wood dust and flammble materials. An electric convector heater
| takes a long time to warm the space.

You can get industrial electric fan heaters for wiring in, that have more
oomph than the 3kW max from a 13A socket. No more/less efficient/expensive
than any other electric heater.

Any electric fan heater except those designed for dusty environment would be
susceptible to dust build up inside. Better would probably be a fan-assisted
radiator (unit heater) eg "Myson" off a wet central heating system.

If the workshop is some way from the house and only has electricity then
what about a small microwave and some of those microwaveable bean-bag
handwarmers. At least he could then have a constant supply of warm
handwarmers in his pockets.

Owain

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:19:12 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

We'd like to know if there's anything more efficient in fuel use and heating
than the fan heater though.

Long infra-red - the white ceramic heating elements without the glow.
This wavelength is absorbed by people, but not the air, so a
wall-mounted heater can keep _you_ warm over a large area of workshop,
even if the ambient isn't changing by much.

Machine Mart have 2kW heaters, and eBay has them cheaper
(tools/industrial - plenty of them). My own is a little 500W jobbie
made with surplus heater elements. I wish it were bigger - it's fine
for working at the bench, but not the whole shed.


Or take up smithing. That's a good winter occupation 8-)

--
Smert' spamionam

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:19:12 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

We'd like to know if there's anything more efficient in fuel use and
heating
than the fan heater though.

Long infra-red - the white ceramic heating elements without the glow.
This wavelength is absorbed by people, but not the air, so a
wall-mounted heater can keep _you_ warm over a large area of workshop,
even if the ambient isn't changing by much.

Machine Mart have 2kW heaters, and eBay has them cheaper
(tools/industrial - plenty of them). My own is a little 500W jobbie
made with surplus heater elements. I wish it were bigger - it's fine
for working at the bench, but not the whole shed.

Thanks, I'll look further into that and tell him.


Or take up smithing. That's a good winter occupation 8-)

Of course, but you can't make the things he's making at the moment on an
anvil. I suspect he's saving smithing jobs for when winter really sets in!

Mary

--
Smert' spamionam

In article ,
says...

"Tony Williams" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Peter Stockdale wrote:

I also find it helps to have one's feet off the cold floor.
Duckboards or even pallets can help with this in the bench area.

Yes, a pair of 'ski boots' also helps.

The real problem I have with working in the garage
is that everything that has to be touched or picked
up is icy cold, with the inevitable effect on the
fingertips. Gloves help of course, but can be too
clumsy for some jobs.

It's very cold today and Spouse keeps coming in to warm his hands. He says
tht the very thin ply he's working with seems to be sucking the heat from
his fingers. Gloves would be impossible for the job he's doing - or most of
them because he's usually making very small items.

He stands on boards and mats, is wearing thick shoes and socks and I've told
him to keep the door closed and put on the fan heater. He - anyone - needs
to be comfortable in such circumstances. If you're not you don't do a good
job.

We'd like to know if there's anything more efficient in fuel use and heating
than the fan heater though. He won't use a gas heater because of wood dust
and flammble materials. An electric convector heater takes a long time to
warm the space.

He's not a wuss (and it's silly and offensive to accuse anyone of that).

Mary

--
Tony Williams.




I use a diesel fuelled blow heater. Very slightly smelly but ir warms up
the place very quickly and then only needs to be used in bursts to
maintain a comfortable level of warmth.


--
Paul Mc Cann

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:19:12 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Tony Williams" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Peter Stockdale wrote:

I also find it helps to have one's feet off the cold floor.
Duckboards or even pallets can help with this in the bench area.

Yes, a pair of 'ski boots' also helps.

The real problem I have with working in the garage
is that everything that has to be touched or picked
up is icy cold, with the inevitable effect on the
fingertips. Gloves help of course, but can be too
clumsy for some jobs.

It's very cold today and Spouse keeps coming in to warm his hands. He says
tht the very thin ply he's working with seems to be sucking the heat from
his fingers. Gloves would be impossible for the job he's doing - or most of
them because he's usually making very small items.

He stands on boards and mats, is wearing thick shoes and socks and I've told
him to keep the door closed and put on the fan heater. He - anyone - needs
to be comfortable in such circumstances. If you're not you don't do a good
job.

We'd like to know if there's anything more efficient in fuel use and heating
than the fan heater though. He won't use a gas heater because of wood dust
and flammble materials. An electric convector heater takes a long time to
warm the space.

He's not a wuss (and it's silly and offensive to accuse anyone of that).


The best investment that you could make, Mary, would be to insulate
and draughtproof the place.

Before doing that, to reach a reasonable temperature of say 18 degrees
to do work comfortably would need 3 x 3kW fan heaters and at this time
of year wouldn't make that temperature. Pretty expensive too.

Afterwards it takes 3kW at the most. This would be OK with one fan
heater, although I have done it using a separate circuit from the
central heating boiler. Very comfortable and very cheap to run.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:19:12 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Tony Williams" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Peter Stockdale wrote:

I also find it helps to have one's feet off the cold floor.
Duckboards or even pallets can help with this in the bench area.

Yes, a pair of 'ski boots' also helps.

The real problem I have with working in the garage
is that everything that has to be touched or picked
up is icy cold, with the inevitable effect on the
fingertips. Gloves help of course, but can be too
clumsy for some jobs.

It's very cold today and Spouse keeps coming in to warm his hands. He says
tht the very thin ply he's working with seems to be sucking the heat from
his fingers. Gloves would be impossible for the job he's doing - or most
of
them because he's usually making very small items.

He stands on boards and mats, is wearing thick shoes and socks and I've
told
him to keep the door closed and put on the fan heater. He - anyone - needs
to be comfortable in such circumstances. If you're not you don't do a good
job.

We'd like to know if there's anything more efficient in fuel use and
heating
than the fan heater though. He won't use a gas heater because of wood dust
and flammble materials. An electric convector heater takes a long time to
warm the space.

He's not a wuss (and it's silly and offensive to accuse anyone of that).


The best investment that you could make, Mary, would be to insulate
and draughtproof the place.

You must either be joking or have an unusual garage/workshop.

Our hasn't had a car in it for many years. The walls, when they're not
concealed by large and heavy machinery or benches, are covered with shelves
and cupboards. It would be nigh on impossible to get all that stuff out to
insulate - although when we built it we used blocks with a good insulating
integrity. When the door is shut there are no draughts. It's not an old,
falling apart wooden garage, rotting in the corners. It's solid with double
glazed windows (which have shelves across them) and the solid, thick wooden
roof is clad internally and felted externally.

But when you're working with no heat from say 9 to 7, with a break for lunch
(which is what he likes to do) in today's temperature it gets cold. Worse,
the materials and tools he works with are cold.

Before doing that, to reach a reasonable temperature of say 18 degrees ...

That's far higher than he'd need.

I like the other Andy's suggestion and shall put it to Spouse over dinner
tonight, when he's well fed, wined and warmed.

Mary

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 18:10:49 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:19:12 -0000, "Mary Fisher"


The best investment that you could make, Mary, would be to insulate
and draughtproof the place.

You must either be joking or have an unusual garage/workshop.

Not at all. It's a single leaf brick built large garage with pitched
roof, felted and tiled.

I decided that if I was going to use the space properly then it needed
to be dry, raised to a reasonable temperature for comfortable working.
Costed out in terms of running costs, I reckoned that I could recover
the cost of the materials in about three years. It looks on track to
achieve that. Plus I don't have issues with extreme variations in
temperature and humidity, so it makes dealing with materials easier as
well.



Our hasn't had a car in it for many years. The walls, when they're not
concealed by large and heavy machinery or benches, are covered with shelves
and cupboards. It would be nigh on impossible to get all that stuff out to
insulate - although when we built it we used blocks with a good insulating
integrity.

I simply bit the bullet, threw out a load of stuff that was unneeded
anyway and stacked the rest. It was worth the effort.

When the door is shut there are no draughts. It's not an old,
falling apart wooden garage, rotting in the corners. It's solid with double
glazed windows (which have shelves across them) and the solid, thick wooden
roof is clad internally and felted externally.

That's not too bad, probably. You could quite easily reduce the
heat loss by a half to two thirds.


But when you're working with no heat from say 9 to 7, with a break for lunch
(which is what he likes to do) in today's temperature it gets cold. Worse,
the materials and tools he works with are cold.

I think that that's the point. It's a miserable experience having
to do that and demotivating into the bargain.




Before doing that, to reach a reasonable temperature of say 18 degrees ...

That's far higher than he'd need.

It depends on what you want and what you're doing. I don't really
want to dress up in anoraks and thick woolies because they get in the
way.



I like the other Andy's suggestion and shall put it to Spouse over dinner
tonight, when he's well fed, wined and warmed.

I guess that you have to look at what your needs are. Personally, I
don't want to be restricted to just keeping warm in one place. I
want to be able to easily use the whole space and have a low running
cost to do so.








--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"r.p.mcmurphy" wrote in message ...
"Adrian C" wrote in message
...
I've just kitted out my garage with a workbench and realised that it's not
the most comfortable place to stand for hours when it's chilly. So I'm
thinking about a heater - more specifically one of those 1kW Halogen
near-infra-red heaters which I understand might heat me (and my otherwise
frozen fingers) better than a fan heater trying to add heat to limitless
amounts of cold air. I've seen such heaters for around £20. Drawbacks on
this direct radiant heat approach?

none really. cheap and effective. obviously everybody would prefer a
nicely insulated and heat garage though.

Steve

Oh come on guys, insulation is cheap and is the key to any situation
like this. Ok it takes a little time to install it but the advantage
is huge. I really don't have any of the problems of cold feet, cold
hands, cold this an that and none of my tools suffer from
condensation.

I've used 2 inch expanded polystyrene sheets which are cut to shape
and have the added advantage of changing a dark surface into white
one. I have a small convector heater and the workshop heats up
quickly, controllably and inexpensively. You read any posting on
heating now and every time insulation is stated as the first way
forward.

Rob

I've been to my ex's brother's woodwork workshop out in the country in
France. It's a moderate size for a small business - maybe 40ft sq, and
house height. He has a small (and I mean small) wood-burning stove
which keeps the place comfortably warm. It might not be a practical
proposition for occasional use, but anyway........

MJ

"Owain" wrote in message
...
"Mary Fisher" wrote
| We'd like to know if there's anything more efficient in fuel use and
| heating than the fan heater though. He won't use a gas heater because
| of wood dust and flammble materials. An electric convector heater
| takes a long time to warm the space.

You can get industrial electric fan heaters for wiring in, that have more
oomph than the 3kW max from a 13A socket. No more/less efficient/expensive
than any other electric heater.

Any electric fan heater except those designed for dusty environment would
be
susceptible to dust build up inside. Better would probably be a
fan-assisted
radiator (unit heater) eg "Myson" off a wet central heating system.

I'd wondered about a radiator coming from the house system but a) it would
take time to warm up and b) (more significant) where would it be sited?
There's no wall space!

If the workshop is some way from the house and only has electricity then
what about a small microwave and some of those microwaveable bean-bag
handwarmers. At least he could then have a constant supply of warm
handwarmers in his pockets.

Oh come on, Owain! You don't really expect the Fishers to have a microwave
do you :-)))))

Mary

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 21:27:54 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Owain" wrote in message
...
"Mary Fisher" wrote
| We'd like to know if there's anything more efficient in fuel use and
| heating than the fan heater though. He won't use a gas heater because
| of wood dust and flammble materials. An electric convector heater
| takes a long time to warm the space.

You can get industrial electric fan heaters for wiring in, that have more
oomph than the 3kW max from a 13A socket. No more/less efficient/expensive
than any other electric heater.

Any electric fan heater except those designed for dusty environment would
be
susceptible to dust build up inside. Better would probably be a
fan-assisted
radiator (unit heater) eg "Myson" off a wet central heating system.

I'd wondered about a radiator coming from the house system but a) it would
take time to warm up and b) (more significant) where would it be sited?
There's no wall space!

These things are no larger than a fan heater, Mary, and about a
quarter of the price to run.



If the workshop is some way from the house and only has electricity then
what about a small microwave and some of those microwaveable bean-bag
handwarmers. At least he could then have a constant supply of warm
handwarmers in his pockets.

Oh come on, Owain! You don't really expect the Fishers to have a microwave
do you :-)))))

What about your air conditioner that works by leaving the fridge door
open?




--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 18:10:49 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:19:12 -0000, "Mary Fisher"


The best investment that you could make, Mary, would be to insulate
and draughtproof the place.

You must either be joking or have an unusual garage/workshop.

Not at all. It's a single leaf brick built large garage with pitched
roof, felted and tiled.

Yes, but what does it contain?

I decided that if I was going to use the space properly then it needed
to be dry, raised to a reasonable temperature for comfortable working.
Costed out in terms of running costs, I reckoned that I could recover
the cost of the materials in about three years. It looks on track to
achieve that. Plus I don't have issues with extreme variations in
temperature and humidity, so it makes dealing with materials easier as
well.

Oh, so it's fairly new. After ten or more years, when you've built up a
comprehensive range of machinery, tools, materials and other necessaries you
might remember this conversation :-)



Our hasn't had a car in it for many years. The walls, when they're not
concealed by large and heavy machinery or benches, are covered with
shelves
and cupboards. It would be nigh on impossible to get all that stuff out to
insulate - although when we built it we used blocks with a good insulating
integrity.

I simply bit the bullet, threw out a load of stuff that was unneeded
anyway and stacked the rest. It was worth the effort.

You can't throw out things you use - I'm not talking about stuff saved
'against the day'. All that was skipped when the garage/workshop was built.
I'm talking about welding equipment, a forge, a milling/lathe machine, a
sander, a planer ... I could go on (I usually do!) but I shan't.

When the door is shut there are no draughts. It's not an old,
falling apart wooden garage, rotting in the corners. It's solid with
double
glazed windows (which have shelves across them) and the solid, thick
wooden
roof is clad internally and felted externally.

That's not too bad, probably. You could quite easily reduce the
heat loss by a half to two thirds.

I doubt it, without rebuilding and we're too old for that.


But when you're working with no heat from say 9 to 7, with a break for
lunch
(which is what he likes to do) in today's temperature it gets cold. Worse,
the materials and tools he works with are cold.

I think that that's the point. It's a miserable experience having
to do that and demotivating into the bargain.

When the temperature isn't as low as it has been today he's fine. I'm the
one who's concerned. He's not miserable and he's well motivated. When he's
not he comes inside - he doesn't HAVE to do what he does, when it stops
being fun he stops.

As I do.

In fact in the past, when conditions have been bad, he's done things in the
house. One Christmas day the dining room was converted to a welding shed,
another Christmas a friend brought round a car engine and put it on the
dining table for stripping. I learned to accept this sort of situation the
first time he brought his motor bike through the front door and into the
sitting room - it couldn't get round the corner into the dining room. That
was more than thirty years ago. We'd always done push bike maintenance in
the house when it was cold. We don't believe in suffering.

It's all part of Life's Rich Tapestry ...


Before doing that, to reach a reasonable temperature of say 18 degrees
...

That's far higher than he'd need.

It depends on what you want and what you're doing.

He's tough. We don't have 18 degrees in the house.

I don't really
want to dress up in anoraks and thick woolies because they get in the
way.

LOL! I can't remember when we last had an anorak in the house and then it
belonged to a teenage son. The youngest is now 36 ...

Thick woollies aren't necessary. But you need bare hands for the delicate
work Spouse sometimes does and that's where the problem is. Metal especially
but even wood can draw out the heat from fingers.

I like the other Andy's suggestion and shall put it to Spouse over dinner
tonight, when he's well fed, wined and warmed.

I guess that you have to look at what your needs are.

Quite.

Personally, I
don't want to be restricted to just keeping warm in one place. I
want to be able to easily use the whole space and have a low running
cost to do so.

Hmm. You're demonstrating again that you either have a large workshop or it
hasn't yet been filled with the necessary equipment for the diverse jobs you
do. The working space in Spouse's workshop/garage is very small so he stays
in one place all the time..

I told him about Andy Dingley's suggestions, he's going to look into it.

Mary

"Rob Graham" wrote in message
om...
"r.p.mcmurphy" wrote in message
...
"Adrian C" wrote in message
...
I've just kitted out my garage with a workbench and realised that it's
not
the most comfortable place to stand for hours when it's chilly. So I'm
thinking about a heater - more specifically one of those 1kW Halogen
near-infra-red heaters which I understand might heat me (and my
otherwise
frozen fingers) better than a fan heater trying to add heat to
limitless
amounts of cold air. I've seen such heaters for around £20. Drawbacks
on
this direct radiant heat approach?

none really. cheap and effective. obviously everybody would prefer a
nicely insulated and heat garage though.

Steve

Oh come on guys, insulation is cheap and is the key to any situation
like this. Ok it takes a little time to install it but the advantage
is huge. I really don't have any of the problems of cold feet, cold
hands, cold this an that and none of my tools suffer from
condensation.

Ours doesn't either. Our garage/workshop isn't damp.

I've used 2 inch expanded polystyrene sheets which are cut to shape
and have the added advantage of changing a dark surface into white
one. I have a small convector heater and the workshop heats up
quickly, controllably and inexpensively. You read any posting on
heating now and every time insulation is stated as the first way
forward.

Indeed - but only when there's room to install it.

Mary

Rob

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 21:27:54 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Owain" wrote in message
.. .
"Mary Fisher" wrote
| We'd like to know if there's anything more efficient in fuel use and
| heating than the fan heater though. He won't use a gas heater because
| of wood dust and flammble materials. An electric convector heater
| takes a long time to warm the space.

You can get industrial electric fan heaters for wiring in, that have
more
oomph than the 3kW max from a 13A socket. No more/less
efficient/expensive
than any other electric heater.

Any electric fan heater except those designed for dusty environment
would
be
susceptible to dust build up inside. Better would probably be a
fan-assisted
radiator (unit heater) eg "Myson" off a wet central heating system.

I'd wondered about a radiator coming from the house system but a) it would
take time to warm up and b) (more significant) where would it be sited?
There's no wall space!

These things are no larger than a fan heater, Mary, and about a
quarter of the price to run.

I only said I'd wondered! It went no further :-)



If the workshop is some way from the house and only has electricity then
what about a small microwave and some of those microwaveable bean-bag
handwarmers. At least he could then have a constant supply of warm
handwarmers in his pockets.

Oh come on, Owain! You don't really expect the Fishers to have a microwave
do you :-)))))

What about your air conditioner that works by leaving the fridge door
open?




--

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 21:42:21 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:




You must either be joking or have an unusual garage/workshop.

Not at all. It's a single leaf brick built large garage with pitched
roof, felted and tiled.

Yes, but what does it contain?

Woodworking and other machinery, tools, materials etc.



I decided that if I was going to use the space properly then it needed
to be dry, raised to a reasonable temperature for comfortable working.
Costed out in terms of running costs, I reckoned that I could recover
the cost of the materials in about three years. It looks on track to
achieve that. Plus I don't have issues with extreme variations in
temperature and humidity, so it makes dealing with materials easier as
well.

Oh, so it's fairly new. After ten or more years, when you've built up a
comprehensive range of machinery, tools, materials and other necessaries you
might remember this conversation :-)

Oh I have. The garage is about 20 years old so there had been
plenty of time to accumulate useless junk. Much of this went into a
skip.





Our hasn't had a car in it for many years. The walls, when they're not
concealed by large and heavy machinery or benches, are covered with
shelves
and cupboards. It would be nigh on impossible to get all that stuff out to
insulate - although when we built it we used blocks with a good insulating
integrity.

I simply bit the bullet, threw out a load of stuff that was unneeded
anyway and stacked the rest. It was worth the effort.

You can't throw out things you use - I'm not talking about stuff saved
'against the day'. All that was skipped when the garage/workshop was built.
I'm talking about welding equipment, a forge, a milling/lathe machine, a
sander, a planer ... I could go on (I usually do!) but I shan't.

Obviously not, and I have a number of large things of this ilk.
I'm really talking about scraps of wood, stuff left over from
projects, tins of paint and so on.




When the door is shut there are no draughts. It's not an old,
falling apart wooden garage, rotting in the corners. It's solid with
double
glazed windows (which have shelves across them) and the solid, thick
wooden
roof is clad internally and felted externally.

That's not too bad, probably. You could quite easily reduce the
heat loss by a half to two thirds.

I doubt it, without rebuilding and we're too old for that.

All you need to do is to create a stud frame inside the walls, fit
insulation and attach ply to it. Very easy job.




But when you're working with no heat from say 9 to 7, with a break for
lunch
(which is what he likes to do) in today's temperature it gets cold. Worse,
the materials and tools he works with are cold.

I think that that's the point. It's a miserable experience having
to do that and demotivating into the bargain.

When the temperature isn't as low as it has been today he's fine. I'm the
one who's concerned. He's not miserable and he's well motivated. When he's
not he comes inside - he doesn't HAVE to do what he does, when it stops
being fun he stops.

As I do.

That's fair enough if he's happy.



In fact in the past, when conditions have been bad, he's done things in the
house. One Christmas day the dining room was converted to a welding shed,
another Christmas a friend brought round a car engine and put it on the
dining table for stripping. I learned to accept this sort of situation the
first time he brought his motor bike through the front door and into the
sitting room - it couldn't get round the corner into the dining room. That
was more than thirty years ago. We'd always done push bike maintenance in
the house when it was cold. We don't believe in suffering.

It's all part of Life's Rich Tapestry ...


Indeed.




Before doing that, to reach a reasonable temperature of say 18 degrees
...

That's far higher than he'd need.

It depends on what you want and what you're doing.

He's tough. We don't have 18 degrees in the house.

I don't really
want to dress up in anoraks and thick woolies because they get in the
way.

LOL! I can't remember when we last had an anorak in the house and then it
belonged to a teenage son. The youngest is now 36 ...

Thick woollies aren't necessary. But you need bare hands for the delicate
work Spouse sometimes does and that's where the problem is. Metal especially
but even wood can draw out the heat from fingers.

Exactly, and that's the point. I ordered a coverall for woodworking
recently, the idea being that it stays in the workshop and dust isn't
brought into the house. However, I tried it on and it was clear that
it was going to be restrictive around the arms etc. so it went back.



I like the other Andy's suggestion and shall put it to Spouse over dinner
tonight, when he's well fed, wined and warmed.

I guess that you have to look at what your needs are.

Quite.

Personally, I
don't want to be restricted to just keeping warm in one place. I
want to be able to easily use the whole space and have a low running
cost to do so.

Hmm. You're demonstrating again that you either have a large workshop or it
hasn't yet been filled with the necessary equipment for the diverse jobs you
do.

It's fairly carefully planned to maximise the space, and almost
everything, including a woodworking machine weighing a tonne is mobile
to allow flexibility.


The working space in Spouse's workshop/garage is very small so he stays
in one place all the time..

I told him about Andy Dingley's suggestions, he's going to look into it.

For that scenario it may well be workable, and better than what he
has.



Mary



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Tony Williams" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Peter Stockdale wrote:

I also find it helps to have one's feet off the cold floor.
Duckboards or even pallets can help with this in the bench area.

Yes, a pair of 'ski boots' also helps.

The real problem I have with working in the garage
is that everything that has to be touched or picked
up is icy cold, with the inevitable effect on the
fingertips. Gloves help of course, but can be too
clumsy for some jobs.

It's very cold today and Spouse keeps coming in to warm his hands. He says
tht the very thin ply he's working with seems to be sucking the heat from
his fingers. Gloves would be impossible for the job he's doing - or most of
them because he's usually making very small items.

He stands on boards and mats, is wearing thick shoes and socks and I've told
him to keep the door closed and put on the fan heater. He - anyone - needs
to be comfortable in such circumstances. If you're not you don't do a good
job.

We'd like to know if there's anything more efficient in fuel use and heating
than the fan heater though. He won't use a gas heater because of wood dust
and flammble materials. An electric convector heater takes a long time to
warm the space.

He's not a wuss (and it's silly and offensive to accuse anyone of that).

Mary

--

It was a joke Mary (the clue was in the exclamation mark)

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...


Our hasn't had a car in it for many years. The walls, when they're not
concealed by large and heavy machinery or benches, are covered with
shelves
and cupboards. It would be nigh on impossible to get all that stuff out
to
insulate - although when we built it we used blocks with a good
insulating
integrity.

I simply bit the bullet, threw out a load of stuff that was unneeded
anyway and stacked the rest. It was worth the effort.

You can't throw out things you use - I'm not talking about stuff saved
'against the day'. All that was skipped when the garage/workshop was
built.
I'm talking about welding equipment, a forge, a milling/lathe machine, a
sander, a planer ... I could go on (I usually do!) but I shan't.

Obviously not, and I have a number of large things of this ilk.
I'm really talking about scraps of wood, stuff left over from
projects, tins of paint and so on.

I don't allow him to keep things like that!

When the door is shut there are no draughts. It's not an old,
falling apart wooden garage, rotting in the corners. It's solid with
double
glazed windows (which have shelves across them) and the solid, thick
wooden
roof is clad internally and felted externally.

That's not too bad, probably. You could quite easily reduce the
heat loss by a half to two thirds.

I doubt it, without rebuilding and we're too old for that.

All you need to do is to create a stud frame inside the walls, fit
insulation and attach ply to it. Very easy job.

I obviously haven't explained properly. It's impossible to get to the walls.


But when you're working with no heat from say 9 to 7, with a break for
lunch
(which is what he likes to do) in today's temperature it gets cold.
Worse,
the materials and tools he works with are cold.

I think that that's the point. It's a miserable experience having
to do that and demotivating into the bargain.

When the temperature isn't as low as it has been today he's fine. I'm the
one who's concerned. He's not miserable and he's well motivated. When he's
not he comes inside - he doesn't HAVE to do what he does, when it stops
being fun he stops.

As I do.

That's fair enough if he's happy.

We are very happy, thank you :-)


Thick woollies aren't necessary. But you need bare hands for the delicate
work Spouse sometimes does and that's where the problem is. Metal
especially
but even wood can draw out the heat from fingers.

Exactly, and that's the point. I ordered a coverall for woodworking
recently, the idea being that it stays in the workshop and dust isn't
brought into the house. However, I tried it on and it was clear that
it was going to be restrictive around the arms etc. so it went back.

Spouse's overalls allow for normal clothes underneath - and are washed twice
a week.

I like the other Andy's suggestion and shall put it to Spouse over
dinner
tonight, when he's well fed, wined and warmed.

I guess that you have to look at what your needs are.

Quite.

Personally, I
don't want to be restricted to just keeping warm in one place. I
want to be able to easily use the whole space and have a low running
cost to do so.

Hmm. You're demonstrating again that you either have a large workshop or
it
hasn't yet been filled with the necessary equipment for the diverse jobs
you
do.

It's fairly carefully planned to maximise the space, and almost
everything, including a woodworking machine weighing a tonne is mobile
to allow flexibility.

You're lucky to have a big enough space to move plant about.


The working space in Spouse's workshop/garage is very small so he stays
in one place all the time..

I told him about Andy Dingley's suggestions, he's going to look into it.

For that scenario it may well be workable, and better than what he
has.

What he has now is nothing!

Mary

Mary Fisher wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:19:12 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Tony Williams" wrote in message
...

In article ,
Peter Stockdale wrote:


I also find it helps to have one's feet off the cold floor.
Duckboards or even pallets can help with this in the bench area.

Yes, a pair of 'ski boots' also helps.

The real problem I have with working in the garage
is that everything that has to be touched or picked
up is icy cold, with the inevitable effect on the
fingertips. Gloves help of course, but can be too
clumsy for some jobs.

It's very cold today and Spouse keeps coming in to warm his hands. He says
tht the very thin ply he's working with seems to be sucking the heat from
his fingers. Gloves would be impossible for the job he's doing - or most
of
them because he's usually making very small items.

He stands on boards and mats, is wearing thick shoes and socks and I've
told
him to keep the door closed and put on the fan heater. He - anyone - needs
to be comfortable in such circumstances. If you're not you don't do a good
job.

We'd like to know if there's anything more efficient in fuel use and
heating
than the fan heater though. He won't use a gas heater because of wood dust
and flammble materials. An electric convector heater takes a long time to
warm the space.

He's not a wuss (and it's silly and offensive to accuse anyone of that).


The best investment that you could make, Mary, would be to insulate
and draughtproof the place.


You must either be joking or have an unusual garage/workshop.

Our hasn't had a car in it for many years. The walls, when they're not
concealed by large and heavy machinery or benches, are covered with shelves
and cupboards. It would be nigh on impossible to get all that stuff out to
insulate - although when we built it we used blocks with a good insulating
integrity. When the door is shut there are no draughts. It's not an old,
falling apart wooden garage, rotting in the corners. It's solid with double
glazed windows (which have shelves across them) and the solid, thick wooden
roof is clad internally and felted externally.

But when you're working with no heat from say 9 to 7, with a break for lunch
(which is what he likes to do) in today's temperature it gets cold. Worse,
the materials and tools he works with are cold.

Before doing that, to reach a reasonable temperature of say 18 degrees ...


That's far higher than he'd need.

I like the other Andy's suggestion and shall put it to Spouse over dinner
tonight, when he's well fed, wined and warmed.

Doing things properly is seldom simple, Mary.

I'd invest in a small wood burning stove. With closed doors, to burn all
the scrap in.

AND insulate the place.




Mary

Mary Fisher wrote:


I'd wondered about a radiator coming from the house system but a) it would
take time to warm up and b) (more significant) where would it be sited?
There's no wall space!


Get hot water fan blown hot air curtain then.

Simply ideal fr this application. Fast to warm up as well.
As used in shops. Blows hot air down to floor level.

The working space in Spouse's workshop/garage is very small so he stays
in one place all the time..

I told him about Andy Dingley's suggestions, he's going to look into it.

For that scenario it may well be workable, and better than what he
has.

What he has now is nothing!


I have to wonder about the potential merits of underfloor heating under
duck-boards for the small area in which he works, in addition to the various
described space heating. If your toes are warm, you're half way there.

"Mike Dodd" wrote in message
...
The working space in Spouse's workshop/garage is very small so he stays
in one place all the time..

I told him about Andy Dingley's suggestions, he's going to look into it.

For that scenario it may well be workable, and better than what he
has.

What he has now is nothing!


I have to wonder about the potential merits of underfloor heating under
duck-boards for the small area in which he works, in addition to the
various described space heating. If your toes are warm, you're half way
there.

Oh his toes are warm enough, he's not daft enough to wear sandals in this
weather! It's his fingers, they lose heat to cold tools and materials. But
for others it's a thought. I got him to put a radiator on the wall behind
the kneehole of my desk so that when I was sitting still, here, I wouldn't
be cold.

Even localised underfloor heating in the garage, though, would be as
disruptive in our case as some other suggestions.

I was only making a passing comment, I didn't want to start a war :-)

I do believe, though, that being uncomfortable in a working situation leads
to inefficiency. In our case it's soluble by simply leaving the garage for a
while to warm through. For others that's not always possible and the most
suitable heating should be considered. That will be different according to
circumstances, there's no one-size-fits-all.

It's especialy useful to think about it if building/rebuilding a workshop,
when insulation and heating systems can be installed reasonably easily and
cheaply rather than leave it until it's too inconvenient.

Trouble is, we usually do this building when we're young and don't think
we're ever going to fail :-)

Mary

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:19:12 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

It's very cold today and Spouse keeps coming in to warm his hands. He says
tht the very thin ply he's working with seems to be sucking the heat from
his fingers. Gloves would be impossible for the job he's doing - or most of
them because he's usually making very small items.

What about fingerless gloves? Or take some cheap motorcyle gloves and
chop the fingers off (hint - take hand out first)

He stands on boards and mats, is wearing thick shoes and socks and I've told

Isn't he allowed to have a seat? Poor spouse! Also two pairs of summer
socks are probably better than one pair of winter ones. Winter socks -
who needs 'em!?!

him to keep the door closed and put on the fan heater.

Yes, putting a heater on and leaving the door open is a common
mistake!

He - anyone - needs
to be comfortable in such circumstances. If you're not you don't do a good
job.

Indeede!

We'd like to know if there's anything more efficient in fuel use and heating
than the fan heater though. He won't use a gas heater because of wood dust
and flammble materials. An electric convector heater takes a long time to
warm the space.

If he's working in one spot, buy him a nice chair or stool to sit on,
put one of those 700w mini oil filled radiators under the bench, and
section it off underneath eg with boxes either side to trap the warm
air more. Let us know what he thinks of this anyway...

cheers,
Pete.


He's not a wuss (and it's silly and offensive to accuse anyone of that).

Mary

--
Tony Williams.

"Pete C" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:19:12 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

It's very cold today and Spouse keeps coming in to warm his hands. He says
that the very thin ply he's working with seems to be sucking the heat from
his fingers. Gloves would be impossible for the job he's doing - or most
of
them because he's usually making very small items.

What about fingerless gloves? Or take some cheap motorcyle gloves and
chop the fingers off (hint - take hand out first)

He has some of those, he wears them on the scooter. I suspect he wouldn't be
willing to cut them.

He stands on boards and mats, is wearing thick shoes and socks and I've
told

Isn't he allowed to have a seat?

It's not a matter of being allowed to, he prefers not to. He has a
neurological condition which, without going into unpleasant details, makes
sitting uncomfortable.

Poor spouse!


He doesn't answer to that, he likes being Spouse and thinks he's well done
to!

Also two pairs of summer
socks are probably better than one pair of winter ones. Winter socks -
who needs 'em!?!

Who said anything about winter socks - whatever they are?

him to keep the door closed and put on the fan heater.

Yes, putting a heater on and leaving the door open is a common
mistake!

He's not daft enough to do that!

He - anyone - needs
to be comfortable in such circumstances. If you're not you don't do a good
job.

Indeede!

We'd like to know if there's anything more efficient in fuel use and
heating
than the fan heater though. He won't use a gas heater because of wood dust
and flammble materials. An electric convector heater takes a long time to
warm the space.

If he's working in one spot, buy him a nice chair or stool to sit on,

See above.

put one of those 700w mini oil filled radiators under the bench,

Come on! There's no room :-)

and
section it off underneath eg with boxes either side to trap the warm
air more. Let us know what he thinks of this anyway...

OK, but I can predict what he'll say.

I can always predict what he'll say, nothing if not unpredictable, my
husband :-(

I suspect it goes with dangly bits ...

Mary

cheers,
Pete.

"Pete C" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:19:12 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

It's very cold today and Spouse keeps coming in to warm his hands. He says
tht the very thin ply he's working with seems to be sucking the heat from
his fingers. Gloves would be impossible for the job he's doing - or most
of
them because he's usually making very small items.

What about fingerless gloves? Or take some cheap motorcyle gloves and
chop the fingers off (hint - take hand out first)

He stands on boards and mats, is wearing thick shoes and socks and I've
told

Isn't he allowed to have a seat? Poor spouse! Also two pairs of summer
socks are probably better than one pair of winter ones. Winter socks -
who needs 'em!?!

him to keep the door closed and put on the fan heater.

Yes, putting a heater on and leaving the door open is a common
mistake!

He - anyone - needs
to be comfortable in such circumstances. If you're not you don't do a good
job.

Indeede!

We'd like to know if there's anything more efficient in fuel use and
heating
than the fan heater though. He won't use a gas heater because of wood dust
and flammble materials. An electric convector heater takes a long time to
warm the space.

If he's working in one spot, buy him a nice chair or stool to sit on,
put one of those 700w mini oil filled radiators under the bench, and
section it off underneath eg with boxes either side to trap the warm
air more. Let us know what he thinks of this anyway...

cheers,
Pete.

Sorry, I meant to add that your suggestions are all good in themselves, just
inappropriate for Spouse.

Mary

"Pete C" wrote in message
...


If he's working in one spot, buy him a nice chair or stool to sit on,
put one of those 700w mini oil filled radiators under the bench, and
section it off underneath eg with boxes either side to trap the warm
air more. Let us know what he thinks of this anyway...

He says it's a nice idea but he doesn't sit. Apart from any other
consideration it's impossible for him to sit while doing the jobs he does.
Moving from bandsaw to sander to polisher to vice to ... He only sits down
to eat or ride the scooter or car and he does none of those in the
workshop/garage.

He also says that he doesn't wear summer socks.

Whatever they are.

:-)

Mary

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 20:48:20 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Pete C" wrote in message
.. .


If he's working in one spot, buy him a nice chair or stool to sit on,
put one of those 700w mini oil filled radiators under the bench, and
section it off underneath eg with boxes either side to trap the warm
air more. Let us know what he thinks of this anyway...

He says it's a nice idea but he doesn't sit. Apart from any other
consideration it's impossible for him to sit while doing the jobs he does.
Moving from bandsaw to sander to polisher to vice to ... He only sits down
to eat or ride the scooter or car and he does none of those in the
workshop/garage.

Hi,

For keeping his hands warm at the machines, ceiling or wall mounted
heat lamps in standard lamp holders, a halogen heater or a fan heater,
aimed at where his hands are would do it.

Have a switch near the machine or a PIR so they come on automatically.

Worth a try with one or two to see how it goes, these are the sort of
thing:

http://www.bltdirect.co.uk/cat11_1.htm

A local electrical factors may have them at a sensible price. Hard
glass is only needed if the lamps could get splashed.

Maplins currently have a 700W halogen radiant heater for a tenner
which would do a similar job:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=44913&TabID=1&source=15&World ID=&doy=14m11

Or fan heaters can be had on the high street starting at £8 to £10.

Also buy some well fitting cheap hide gloves and cut the fingers off,
hands soon lose heat handling a cold vice or similar.

cheers,
Pete.

"Mary Fisher" wrote in news:4195eda8$0
:

It's very cold today and Spouse keeps coming in to warm his hands.

Isn't that what a wifey is for?

"Jo" wrote in message
...
"Mary Fisher" wrote in news:4195eda8$0
:

It's very cold today and Spouse keeps coming in to warm his hands.

Isn't that what a wifey is for?

Of course. And I like it :-)

But he doesn't like being interrupted ...

Mary

"Pete C" wrote in message
...


Hi,

For keeping his hands warm at the machines, ceiling or wall mounted
heat lamps in standard lamp holders, a halogen heater or a fan heater,
aimed at where his hands are would do it.

Have a switch near the machine or a PIR so they come on automatically.

Worth a try with one or two to see how it goes, these are the sort of
thing:

http://www.bltdirect.co.uk/cat11_1.htm

A local electrical factors may have them at a sensible price. Hard
glass is only needed if the lamps could get splashed.

That's a neat idea - how does it compare with Andy Dingley's suggestion of a
long infra-red - the white ceramic heating elements without the glow?


Maplins currently have a 700W halogen radiant heater for a tenner
which would do a similar job:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=44913&TabID=1&source=15&World ID=&doy=14m11

Is there something wrong with that link? I couldn't get it.

Or fan heaters can be had on the high street starting at £8 to £10.

Got one.

Also buy some well fitting cheap hide gloves and cut the fingers off,
hands soon lose heat handling a cold vice or similar.

Yes, but finger tips are very important when doing fine work, he uses them
all the time.

Mary

cheers,
Pete.