I think it's been a few months since anybody asked the (inflammatory)
Electrical Code question, so here goes:

I'm thinking about added some circuits to the garage. (Yeah, I'll have a
competent contractor do it, but I'd like to learn alittle bit about code,
anyhow).

I'm thinking I'd like two 20A 240V's and two 20A 120V circuits added.

The garage is finished - drywall and insulated - so I'd run them outside the
walls.

1. Outside the walls means the wire has to be protected right? As in BX or
conduit, right?
2. Is GFCI a usual requirement for garage outlets? (Cause it's a wet area,
right)?
3. If yes to GFCI, the 240V runs too?
4. If yes to GFCI, then why is the existing outlet in my garage GFCI, but
the two in there feeding the door openers not GFCI? Because they're 10' up?
5. Speaking of up - is there a minimum height off the floor for outlets?
The builder put a nasty dryer vent run through the garage and I'd prefer the
outlets below that. Guessing they'll be 6-8" off the floor.

I don't want the expense of a subpanel *in* the garage. There's already a
100A one in the basement adjacent to the garage, so my thought was to use
that.

Any other NEC things to think about when putting in new runs in a finished
garage?
Thank you!

On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 23:11:30 GMT, "patrick conroy"
wrote:

I think it's been a few months since anybody asked the (inflammatory)
Electrical Code question, so here goes:

I'm thinking about added some circuits to the garage. (Yeah, I'll have a
competent contractor do it, but I'd like to learn alittle bit about code,
anyhow).

I'm thinking I'd like two 20A 240V's and two 20A 120V circuits added.

The garage is finished - drywall and insulated - so I'd run them outside the
walls.

why not fish the wires to pop in boxes?

1. Outside the walls means the wire has to be protected right? As in BX or
conduit, right?

outside walls i would use conduit or bx but it may not be required.
not sure but protected is safer.

2. Is GFCI a usual requirement for garage outlets? (Cause it's a wet area,
right)?

only common outlets need be GFCI. dedicated outlets do not need to be.
i made all my 110 outlets GFCI and the inspector said i did not have
to do that. he said outlets down low and near the door must be but the
outlets above work benches and 220 outlets do not require GFCI
protection.

3. If yes to GFCI, the 240V runs too?

no.

4. If yes to GFCI, then why is the existing outlet in my garage GFCI, but
the two in there feeding the door openers not GFCI? Because they're 10' up?

maybe but more likely because they are concidered dedicated outlets.
basicaly i was told "you aint gonna climb up there and plug in a cord
to do the weeed eating are you?" by the inspector.

5. Speaking of up - is there a minimum height off the floor for outlets?
The builder put a nasty dryer vent run through the garage and I'd prefer the
outlets below that. Guessing they'll be 6-8" off the floor.

i dont beleive there is a mimimum. some new houses have outlets in the
baseboard round here.


I don't want the expense of a subpanel *in* the garage. There's already a
100A one in the basement adjacent to the garage, so my thought was to use
that.

is the garage and basement attached? if not you will probly need
wiring to be in conduit between the buildings. a sub panel is the best
way IMHO because if you trip a circuit you dont want to be going to
the basement to reset the breaker. do you?


Any other NEC things to think about when putting in new runs in a finished
garage?

youe electritian can answer that. you have to total up the numbers to
be sure you arent overloading the 100 amp panel. i recently had to
upgrade to 200 amp service to the house because the numbers were to
high after adding a hot tub and pool to the property. when i built the
shop i went with a new service on a seperate meter. that way i got 200
amp dedicted to the shop. and i can track the cost better. the
business pays that electric bill and i get a write off to boot. do i
need 200 amp service to the shop? probly not but it sure is nice
knowing i can add stuff as i please.
Thank you!


your wellcome...



skeez

skeezics writes:
On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 23:11:30 GMT, "patrick conroy"
wrote:

I think it's been a few months since anybody asked the (inflammatory)
Electrical Code question, so here goes:

I'm thinking about added some circuits to the garage. (Yeah, I'll have a
competent contractor do it, but I'd like to learn alittle bit about code,
anyhow).

I'm thinking I'd like two 20A 240V's and two 20A 120V circuits added.

The garage is finished - drywall and insulated - so I'd run them outside the
walls.

why not fish the wires to pop in boxes?

Frowned upon. When you fish to old-work boxes, you are unable to
fasten the wires within 6" of the box as required by code. The wire
just hanging in the cavity could (I say -could-) be damaged by drilling
into the wall causing fire or electric shock hazard.


2. Is GFCI a usual requirement for garage outlets? (Cause it's a wet area,
right)?

only common outlets need be GFCI. dedicated outlets do not need to be.

However, for the purposes of the code, any NEMA 5-15 or 5-20 receptacle
is considered to be 'common' so long as it can be reached by the
average home resident. The only way you can get away with a
non-GFCI 110v receptacle in a garage is to use a L5-15 or L5-20 receptacle
(i.e. twist-lock).

i made all my 110 outlets GFCI and the inspector said i did not have
to do that. he said outlets down low and near the door must be but the
outlets above work benches and 220 outlets do not require GFCI
protection.

per your inspector. Not necessarily per code. If it can be reached
by Joe Homeowner to plug in, frex an electric lawnmower, it must be
GFCI. Outlets on the ceiling dedicated to the garage door opener
need not be GFCI.


scott

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 01:23:58 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

skeezics writes:
On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 23:11:30 GMT, "patrick conroy"
wrote:

I think it's been a few months since anybody asked the (inflammatory)
Electrical Code question, so here goes:

I'm thinking about added some circuits to the garage. (Yeah, I'll have a
competent contractor do it, but I'd like to learn alittle bit about code,
anyhow).

I'm thinking I'd like two 20A 240V's and two 20A 120V circuits added.

The garage is finished - drywall and insulated - so I'd run them outside the
walls.

why not fish the wires to pop in boxes?

Frowned upon. When you fish to old-work boxes, you are unable to
fasten the wires within 6" of the box as required by code. The wire
just hanging in the cavity could (I say -could-) be damaged by drilling
into the wall causing fire or electric shock hazard.


2. Is GFCI a usual requirement for garage outlets? (Cause it's a wet area,
right)?

only common outlets need be GFCI. dedicated outlets do not need to be.

However, for the purposes of the code, any NEMA 5-15 or 5-20 receptacle
is considered to be 'common' so long as it can be reached by the
average home resident. The only way you can get away with a
non-GFCI 110v receptacle in a garage is to use a L5-15 or L5-20 receptacle
(i.e. twist-lock).

i made all my 110 outlets GFCI and the inspector said i did not have
to do that. he said outlets down low and near the door must be but the
outlets above work benches and 220 outlets do not require GFCI
protection.

per your inspector. Not necessarily per code. If it can be reached
by Joe Homeowner to plug in, frex an electric lawnmower, it must be
GFCI. Outlets on the ceiling dedicated to the garage door opener
need not be GFCI.


well that may be but the inspector is there to see that code is met
and he passed it and gave up the C/O. a lot of code is
interperatation. also different areas allow different methods. actualy
PER the book i have GFCI is not required in a garage.{ IT IS HOWEVER
AN OLD BOOK } it is the local codes that requires it. i did mine that
way 1: because i thought it was required and 2: because it is a safer
way to go. IMHO.

skeez

"patrick conroy" wrote in message
...
I think it's been a few months since anybody asked the (inflammatory)
Electrical Code question, so here goes:

I'm thinking about added some circuits to the garage. (Yeah, I'll have a
competent contractor do it, but I'd like to learn alittle bit about code,
anyhow).

I'm thinking I'd like two 20A 240V's and two 20A 120V circuits added.

The garage is finished - drywall and insulated - so I'd run them outside
the
walls.

1. Outside the walls means the wire has to be protected right? As in BX or
conduit, right?

A lot of places inspectros do not like BX. I am not fond of it either.
Stcik to EMT IMO.

2. Is GFCI a usual requirement for garage outlets? (Cause it's a wet area,
right)?

Not necessarily because its a wet area, but there are rules about outlets
being GFCI protected when they are close to an exterior door.

3. If yes to GFCI, the 240V runs too?
4. If yes to GFCI, then why is the existing outlet in my garage GFCI, but
the two in there feeding the door openers not GFCI? Because they're 10'
up?

GFCI is for protection of people - its unlikely you will plug a hand tool
into an outlet dedicated to the door opener.

5. Speaking of up - is there a minimum height off the floor for outlets?
The builder put a nasty dryer vent run through the garage and I'd prefer
the
outlets below that. Guessing they'll be 6-8" off the floor.


I prefer them higher rather than lower.

I don't want the expense of a subpanel *in* the garage. There's already a
100A one in the basement adjacent to the garage, so my thought was to use
that.


Might end up being simpler put a subpanel out there anyway. otherwise you
end up running a whole bunch of cables instead of one. Plus you can add on
easier later on.

Any other NEC things to think about when putting in new runs in a finished
garage?
Thank you!

Patrick,

First thing I question is this:

The circuits you wish to add will require a total of SIX slots in a
breaker panel (each 220VAC circuit requires two slots). Are you sure
you have six available slots in your 100A subpanel? Most common 100A
subpanels I've seen have six or eight slots.

Even if you do have six empty slots, do you want the hassle of having
to run around to the basement panel when a breaker feeding one of your
shop circuits blows? With the existing subpanel in the same wall as
your garage, it shouldn't be too expensive to add another subpanel.
If this were my garage shop, I'd add a subpanel.

To answer you other questions:
NEC requires that all exposed wire be protected. In your case, you
can't run any unprotected wire on the outside of the drywall (this
includes Romex).

All circuits that have outlets that are readily accessible in a garage
must be GFCI protected. This protection can be a single GFCI outlet
wired in a manner that protects all other (downstream) outlets on the
same circuit.

The above does not apply to dedicated 220VAC outlets.

There is no minimum height requirements for garage outlets, nor is
there any wall spacing requirements in a garage as opposed to the
living quarters which do have a minimum outlet requirement on walls
above a minimum size. I put a wall in my 3-car garage that turned the
single bay into a dedicated shop. My 120VAC outlets are all
approximately 50 inches off the floor so I don't have to bend over at
all.

Rob

On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 23:11:30 GMT, "patrick conroy"
wrote:

I think it's been a few months since anybody asked the (inflammatory)
Electrical Code question, so here goes:

I'm thinking about added some circuits to the garage. (Yeah, I'll have a
competent contractor do it, but I'd like to learn alittle bit about code,
anyhow).

I'm thinking I'd like two 20A 240V's and two 20A 120V circuits added.

The garage is finished - drywall and insulated - so I'd run them outside the
walls.

1. Outside the walls means the wire has to be protected right? As in BX or
conduit, right?
2. Is GFCI a usual requirement for garage outlets? (Cause it's a wet area,
right)?
3. If yes to GFCI, the 240V runs too?
4. If yes to GFCI, then why is the existing outlet in my garage GFCI, but
the two in there feeding the door openers not GFCI? Because they're 10' up?
5. Speaking of up - is there a minimum height off the floor for outlets?
The builder put a nasty dryer vent run through the garage and I'd prefer the
outlets below that. Guessing they'll be 6-8" off the floor.

I don't want the expense of a subpanel *in* the garage. There's already a
100A one in the basement adjacent to the garage, so my thought was to use
that.

Any other NEC things to think about when putting in new runs in a finished
garage?
Thank you!

"Rob Jones" wrote in message
...


Patrick,

Thanks Rob and *everyone* for the advice! I *am* taking it to heart!