Hi all,

I recently bought (eBay, cheap) an old but unused, neat, little 8 way
metalclad mini CU (the make looks like a squirly 'G E' ?) with the
thought to using it in my workshop as a split CU (lights / ring).

It came with an 80A 30mA RCD on what looks like a 'half rail' type
mounting system (the module clips over the top of the rail and is held
down onto / by the busbar).

I was thinking for my 8 module spaces .. ..

2 module incomer switch
1 m 16A MCB (32A?) (radial to socket for welder or maybe lathe?)
1 m 6A MCB (lights)
2 m RCD
1 m 32A (ring)
spare

Now I know I could go out and buy something simple (the little 2 way
RCD CU like I recently did for Dad's garage / workshop rewire) but
once you go 'split' the prices seem to go up quite a lot and the boxes
get much bigger (and I fancied 'playing') ;-)

So, I can make some new busbars on the bandsaw (if needed) out of
some suitable brass (?) sheet, once I know a std MCB will fit
reasonably.

I could even fabricate / machine the lower 'rail' from a strip of
steel and fix it on to of the existing backplate to clip the modern
modules onto? I've a new MK MCB spare somewhere so I'll see how it
fits.

I believe the construction of most CU's I've seen is pretty crude and
as long as I abide by the current plan (split neutral etc) and as long
as it's done sensibly it might make an interesting mini project (for a
DIY'r) ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

So, I can make some new busbars on the bandsaw (if needed) out of
some suitable brass (?) sheet, once I know a std MCB will fit
reasonably.

You should be able to buy replacement DIN rails, if the amount supplied
isn't enough. If you do have a full length one already, it can be simply cut
in half to insert the RCD. Then you just need to sort out the neutrals. I
don't know about the GE, but many have two neutral blocks with a link
between. If so, you can simply remove the link and attach each side to the
correct side of the RCD with suitable cable (i.e. 10mm). Alternatively,
throw the RCD and use a non-split unit with an RCBO for the sockets.

Christian.

In article ,
T i m writes:
Hi all,

I recently bought (eBay, cheap) an old but unused, neat, little 8 way
metalclad mini CU (the make looks like a squirly 'G E' ?) with the
thought to using it in my workshop as a split CU (lights / ring).

It came with an 80A 30mA RCD on what looks like a 'half rail' type
mounting system (the module clips over the top of the rail and is held
down onto / by the busbar).

I've not seen a GE CU, but what you describe sounds like
Federal Electric -- it is designed so that MCB's can be added
and removed without switching off the CU (although I don't
think they actually advertise that feature). The breakers
have a heafty clip which snaps into the busbar.

I was thinking for my 8 module spaces .. ..

2 module incomer switch
1 m 16A MCB (32A?) (radial to socket for welder or maybe lathe?)
1 m 6A MCB (lights)
2 m RCD
1 m 32A (ring)
spare

Now I know I could go out and buy something simple (the little 2 way
RCD CU like I recently did for Dad's garage / workshop rewire) but
once you go 'split' the prices seem to go up quite a lot and the boxes
get much bigger (and I fancied 'playing') ;-)

So, I can make some new busbars on the bandsaw (if needed) out of
some suitable brass (?) sheet, once I know a std MCB will fit
reasonably.

Don't start hacking around with the CU. Take it in to a few
electrical wholesalers and see if they stock breakers for it,
and if you can't get them, chuck it or use it for something
else, or put it on eBay ;-). If it is compatible with Federal
Electric breakers, some years back they increased the size of
front panel cutout required for their breakers and it is generally
acceptable to neatly cut the front panel of their older CU's to
take their newer breakers.

I could even fabricate / machine the lower 'rail' from a strip of
steel and fix it on to of the existing backplate to clip the modern
modules onto? I've a new MK MCB spare somewhere so I'll see how it
fits.

You can buy lengths of DIN rail easily (electrical wholesaler is
one source). There are a few different sizes and a couple of standard
heights, and it's cheap. However, I wouldn't hack around this way to
create a CU.

--
Andrew Gabriel

A Squirly 'GE' is the logo for 'General Electric' a company which has its
fingers in many pies.

Anyway, you can probably find information on the product you have he
http://www.geindustrial.com/cwc/products?famid=19

Thanks

Seri

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
T i m writes:
Hi all,

I recently bought (eBay, cheap) an old but unused, neat, little 8 way
metalclad mini CU (the make looks like a squirly 'G E' ?) with the
thought to using it in my workshop as a split CU (lights / ring).

It came with an 80A 30mA RCD on what looks like a 'half rail' type
mounting system (the module clips over the top of the rail and is held
down onto / by the busbar).

I've not seen a GE CU, but what you describe sounds like
Federal Electric -- it is designed so that MCB's can be added
and removed without switching off the CU (although I don't
think they actually advertise that feature). The breakers
have a heafty clip which snaps into the busbar.

I was thinking for my 8 module spaces .. ..

2 module incomer switch
1 m 16A MCB (32A?) (radial to socket for welder or maybe lathe?)
1 m 6A MCB (lights)
2 m RCD
1 m 32A (ring)
spare

Now I know I could go out and buy something simple (the little 2 way
RCD CU like I recently did for Dad's garage / workshop rewire) but
once you go 'split' the prices seem to go up quite a lot and the boxes
get much bigger (and I fancied 'playing') ;-)

So, I can make some new busbars on the bandsaw (if needed) out of
some suitable brass (?) sheet, once I know a std MCB will fit
reasonably.

Don't start hacking around with the CU. Take it in to a few
electrical wholesalers and see if they stock breakers for it,
and if you can't get them, chuck it or use it for something
else, or put it on eBay ;-). If it is compatible with Federal
Electric breakers, some years back they increased the size of
front panel cutout required for their breakers and it is generally
acceptable to neatly cut the front panel of their older CU's to
take their newer breakers.

I could even fabricate / machine the lower 'rail' from a strip of
steel and fix it on to of the existing backplate to clip the modern
modules onto? I've a new MK MCB spare somewhere so I'll see how it
fits.

You can buy lengths of DIN rail easily (electrical wholesaler is
one source). There are a few different sizes and a couple of standard
heights, and it's cheap. However, I wouldn't hack around this way to
create a CU.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Does not sound a good idea since it will not comply with British Standards
etc. that would your insurer a perfect excuse to reject any claim if there
was a fire.


gee six jay en

On 31 Mar 2004 08:38:56 GMT, in uk.d-i-y
(Andrew Gabriel) strung together this:

In article ,
T i m writes:
Hi all,

I recently bought (eBay, cheap) an old but unused, neat, little 8 way
metalclad mini CU (the make looks like a squirly 'G E' ?) with the
thought to using it in my workshop as a split CU (lights / ring).

It came with an 80A 30mA RCD on what looks like a 'half rail' type
mounting system (the module clips over the top of the rail and is held
down onto / by the busbar).

I've not seen a GE CU, but what you describe sounds like
Federal Electric -- it is designed so that MCB's can be added
and removed without switching off the CU (although I don't
think they actually advertise that feature). The breakers
have a heafty clip which snaps into the busbar.

It's not actually, it's a General Electric. Totally different to
Federal Electric.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:51:12 +0100, in uk.d-i-y T i m
strung together this:

So, I can make some new busbars on the bandsaw (if needed) out of
some suitable brass (?) sheet, once I know a std MCB will fit
reasonably.

For what a new busbar costs, I'd buy a new one. I seem to think I
posted some catalogue numbers for the Hager busbar, which will fit, in
a previous thread of yours.

I could even fabricate / machine the lower 'rail' from a strip of
steel and fix it on to of the existing backplate to clip the modern
modules onto? I've a new MK MCB spare somewhere so I'll see how it
fits.

Again, din rail is cheap enough to buy. Not worth messing about making
your own.

I believe the construction of most CU's I've seen is pretty crude and
as long as I abide by the current plan (split neutral etc) and as long
as it's done sensibly it might make an interesting mini project (for a
DIY'r) ;-)

If you really must, personally I don't think it's worth all the
hassle. One thing to bear in mind, if you start making your own
components the unit won't be to the relevant BS. Insurance companies
like this because it can be their getout clause.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:34:25 GMT, (Lurch)
wrote:


If you really must, personally I don't think it's worth all the
hassle.

Thanks to you and all the other replies so far. I wouldn't look upon
it as 'hassle' but as an interesting project? I wouldn't do the same
thing for anyone else and I suggest any solution I came up with would
be well engineered and more important, safe.

'Doing stuff up' can be both a pain and a pleasure. I found a cycle
in a ditch (in a sorry state) when I was 12, handed it in to the
Police station and 6 weeks later it was mine ;-) Four weeks after that
I had rebuilt it and was cycling it around the South Downs with the
School cycle club. My Mum and Dad *might* of bought me a bike if I had
asked but I never thought to and got a lot of pleasure doing up then
riding this one for the next 4 years. Then I bought a Moped off my
school teacher for a fiver with a stripped spark plug .. repaired that
and rode it for the next 8 months till I was given another moped (NSU
'Quickly') in a wheelbarrow ..... then there was the Messerschmitt and
the Morris Minor van for 15 quid and another 5 quid for the gearbox I
fitted at night, in the car-park, in the rain .. etc .. ;-)

I find that by buying something that has been 'neglected' I learn much
more about that thing when restoring it than anything I might buy new
and running?

One thing to bear in mind, if you start making your own
components the unit won't be to the relevant BS. Insurance companies
like this because it can be their getout clause.

Ah, now that might be a stumbling block (and mentioned elsewhere
(thanks guys)).

I don't mind doing it but I like to do it right ..;-)

So, who's got a *little* split (BS stamped g) CU in the back of
their van that will do me fine for my garage setup then ... ?

All the best ..

T i m

p.s. What about the wooden, live and neutral fused CU I just took out
of my Dad's workshop .. I don't suppose that had a BS stamp?

T i m wrote in message . ..
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:34:25 GMT, (Lurch)
wrote:

'Doing stuff up' can be both a pain and a pleasure. I found a cycle
in a ditch (in a sorry state) when I was 12, handed it in to the
Police station and 6 weeks later it was mine ;-) Four weeks after that
I had rebuilt it and was cycling it around the South Downs with the
School cycle club. My Mum and Dad *might* of bought me a bike if I had
asked but I never thought to and got a lot of pleasure doing up then
riding this one for the next 4 years. Then I bought a Moped off my
school teacher for a fiver with a stripped spark plug .. repaired that
and rode it for the next 8 months till I was given another moped (NSU
'Quickly') in a wheelbarrow ..... then there was the Messerschmitt and
the Morris Minor van for 15 quid and another 5 quid for the gearbox I
fitted at night, in the car-park, in the rain .. etc .. ;-)

I find that by buying something that has been 'neglected' I learn much
more about that thing when restoring it than anything I might buy new
and running?


I like doing stuff up too. Its much more satisfying, and one
(sometimes) ends up with something of far better quality. And
sometimes not. Certainly done a few memorable things along the way.


p.s. What about the wooden, live and neutral fused CU I just took out
of my Dad's workshop .. I don't suppose that had a BS stamp?

both poles fused... BS1 maybe? BSes do go back a long way, lots of
round pin stuff was BSed, BS415 IIRC.


Regards, NT

On 1 Apr 2004 13:21:23 -0800, (N. Thornton) wrote:

T i m wrote in message . ..
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:34:25 GMT, (Lurch)
wrote:


I find that by buying something that has been 'neglected' I learn much
more about that thing when restoring it than anything I might buy new
and running?


I like doing stuff up too. Its much more satisfying, and one
(sometimes) ends up with something of far better quality. And
sometimes not. Certainly done a few memorable things along the way.

[T] Indeed .. I find it brings on a new challenge and a chance for
more learning. The missus knows that when I latch onto a new 'project'
I can't be sidetracked ;-)


p.s. What about the wooden, live and neutral fused CU I just took out
of my Dad's workshop .. I don't suppose that had a BS stamp?

both poles fused... BS1 maybe? BSes do go back a long way, lots of
round pin stuff was BSed, BS415 IIRC.

I think whith some of these things a 'common sense' approach often
yealds a workable solution.

Like this CU I was going to work on .. if you took the box off most
CU's what would you get .. a bunch of MCB's / RCDS etc sliding up an
down a tin rail where the electrical (stamped out) bus bar offers the
greatest physical support between modules? A couple of strips of steel
or brass with screw clamps to provide electrical connection for
neutral / earth etc?

Not exactly rocket science and if done neatly and with full regard to
loadings (and using BS stamped components) what's the problem?

Just thinking out loud ..

All the best ..

T i m

T i m wrote in message . ..

Like this CU I was going to work on .. if you took the box off most
CU's what would you get .. a bunch of MCB's / RCDS etc sliding up an
down a tin rail where the electrical (stamped out) bus bar offers the
greatest physical support between modules? A couple of strips of steel
or brass with screw clamps to provide electrical connection for
neutral / earth etc?

Not exactly rocket science and if done neatly and with full regard to
loadings (and using BS stamped components) what's the problem?

Approval and liability. That unfortunately is the problem. Are you
sure steel conductors would be OK?


Regards, NT