My conservatory installation seems to be turning into the installation
from hell. The current difficulty is with regard to the ridge lighting
(4 downlighters).

The electrician, who's supposed to be coming to fit them on Monday,
admits he's never fitted them into a conservatory before. The
conservatory supplier may also never have fitted them before, but I
can't get hold of anyone there. The lights are 50mm LV 20w halogen
eyeball spots, and the instructions specify 160mm void depth. How do
you fit spotlights into a conservatory ridge if they need that kind of
depth? The mains voltage variant of the same light specifies a smaller
void depth (140mm I believe), presumably because it doesn't need the
space for the transformer, rather than because they produce less heat.
(If I understand it right, 20w of heat is the same whether its LV or
240v?)

Does the heat dissipate through the aluminium? Is that a good idea?
What happens to the uPVC if it gets too hot?

I'd like to be armed with some knowledge about this when the guy from
the conservatory company calls me on Monday am to reassure me that
they know what they're doing with regard to this. Should they be
fitted outside the ridge, rather than cut out to fit into it, so that
the heat can dissipate into the air of the conservatory itself. How do
these usually work?

Thanks

Brian

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
bigbrian wrote:

My conservatory installation seems to be turning into the installation
from hell. The current difficulty is with regard to the ridge lighting
(4 downlighters).

The electrician, who's supposed to be coming to fit them on Monday,
admits he's never fitted them into a conservatory before. The
conservatory supplier may also never have fitted them before, but I
can't get hold of anyone there. The lights are 50mm LV 20w halogen
eyeball spots, and the instructions specify 160mm void depth. How do
you fit spotlights into a conservatory ridge if they need that kind of
depth? The mains voltage variant of the same light specifies a smaller
void depth (140mm I believe), presumably because it doesn't need the
space for the transformer, rather than because they produce less heat.
(If I understand it right, 20w of heat is the same whether its LV or
240v?)

Does the heat dissipate through the aluminium? Is that a good idea?
What happens to the uPVC if it gets too hot?

I'd like to be armed with some knowledge about this when the guy from
the conservatory company calls me on Monday am to reassure me that
they know what they're doing with regard to this. Should they be
fitted outside the ridge, rather than cut out to fit into it, so that
the heat can dissipate into the air of the conservatory itself. How do
these usually work?

Thanks

Brian

I just can't visualise fitting these in a conservatory! They are meant to
fit into plasterboard ceilings with an airspace above.

Not sure why LV need more void depth than mains - if anything, they should
produce *less* heat - because more of the electrical energy is converted
into visible light, and less into heat. Having said that, they *do* run
hotter.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

"bigbrian" wrote
| My conservatory installation seems to be turning into the
| installation from hell. The current difficulty is with
| regard to the ridge lighting (4 downlighters). ...
| What happens to the uPVC if it gets too hot?

It melts?

I would be extremely wary about cutting into a structural member of the
conservatory to fit this.

You could so something like suspend a length of trunking from the
conservatory frame and mount the lights, transformer etc in that.
Ventilation slots on the sides of the trunking. White plastic trunking
readily available, or get galvanised metal and spray-paint. (Metal trunking
*must* be earthed.)

Owain

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:13:20 +0100,
wrote:


My conservatory installation seems to be turning into the installation
from hell. The current difficulty is with regard to the ridge lighting
(4 downlighters).

The electrician, who's supposed to be coming to fit them on Monday,
admits he's never fitted them into a conservatory before. The
conservatory supplier may also never have fitted them before, but I
can't get hold of anyone there. The lights are 50mm LV 20w halogen
eyeball spots, and the instructions specify 160mm void depth. How do
you fit spotlights into a conservatory ridge if they need that kind of
depth? The mains voltage variant of the same light specifies a smaller
void depth (140mm I believe), presumably because it doesn't need the
space for the transformer, rather than because they produce less heat.
(If I understand it right, 20w of heat is the same whether its LV or
240v?)

Does the heat dissipate through the aluminium? Is that a good idea?
What happens to the uPVC if it gets too hot?

I'd like to be armed with some knowledge about this when the guy from
the conservatory company calls me on Monday am to reassure me that
they know what they're doing with regard to this. Should they be
fitted outside the ridge, rather than cut out to fit into it, so that
the heat can dissipate into the air of the conservatory itself. How do
these usually work?

Thanks

Brian


For this application I wouldn't use halogen lights at all because
there are too few to do much useful and they are going to get hot.
The plastic may melt or discolour.

These small lights are quite effective near to a light coloured wall
and where the wall intersects the cone of light and produces a
parabola or part of a hyperbola on the wall.

How high are they? I guess at least 2.5m?

If you do want lights up in the apex, I think that they will need to
be more powerful ones to be useful - say 50W - and spaced off in some
way, or perhaps a different technology to halogen.

Another technique that I have used quite effectively is to have light
coloured blinds in the roof and to use upward pointing lights
reflecting from them


If you are not certain about this, I would delay the lighting
installation, especially anything cutting into the structure, until
you have put in the furniture that you will have and played around
with that and how you will use the room. You can easily experiment
with a cheap set of halogen lights temporarily fitted with tapes and
cords near the ridge just to try them out. You'll get roughly the
right lighting effect.

Then when you are sure, do something permanent.



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"bigbrian" wrote in message
...

My conservatory installation seems to be turning into the installation
from hell. The current difficulty is with regard to the ridge lighting
(4 downlighters).

The electrician, who's supposed to be coming to fit them on Monday,
admits he's never fitted them into a conservatory before. The
conservatory supplier may also never have fitted them before, but I
can't get hold of anyone there. The lights are 50mm LV 20w halogen
eyeball spots, and the instructions specify 160mm void depth. How do
you fit spotlights into a conservatory ridge if they need that kind of
depth? The mains voltage variant of the same light specifies a smaller
void depth (140mm I believe), presumably because it doesn't need the
space for the transformer, rather than because they produce less heat.
(If I understand it right, 20w of heat is the same whether its LV or
240v?)

Does the heat dissipate through the aluminium? Is that a good idea?
What happens to the uPVC if it gets too hot?

I'd like to be armed with some knowledge about this when the guy from
the conservatory company calls me on Monday am to reassure me that
they know what they're doing with regard to this. Should they be
fitted outside the ridge, rather than cut out to fit into it, so that
the heat can dissipate into the air of the conservatory itself. How do
these usually work?

Thanks

Brian

Dunno how they're meant to work in that position.

In our conservatory they put in 3xLV 50W halogens just as you describe with
little plastic collars (probably only about an inch long) as extra spacers.

The (electronic I think) transformers are just slipped into the little space
in the "ridge" extrusion with its plastic clip-on cover.

They were put in when the conservatory was built, ISTR about 4-5 years ago.
Two of the bulbs lights within about 1-2 years and I STILL haven't got
around to hauling myself up there to investigate. We have managed with the
single working third light and some wall lights/table lights for a very long
time. (not to self - must get up there one day soon - it's very high up!)

The other issue is that that area at the top of the conservatory seems to
gather condensation so not a winning combination of dampness and
transformers. I really must get up there some tome and fix them - I suspect
it's not just the bulbs that are knacked.

Good luck.

Regards,
Simon.

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 22:31:02 +0100, "Simon Stroud"
wrote:

"bigbrian" wrote in message
.. .

My conservatory installation seems to be turning into the installation
from hell. The current difficulty is with regard to the ridge lighting
(4 downlighters).

The electrician, who's supposed to be coming to fit them on Monday,
admits he's never fitted them into a conservatory before. The
conservatory supplier may also never have fitted them before, but I
can't get hold of anyone there. The lights are 50mm LV 20w halogen
eyeball spots, and the instructions specify 160mm void depth. How do
you fit spotlights into a conservatory ridge if they need that kind of
depth? The mains voltage variant of the same light specifies a smaller
void depth (140mm I believe), presumably because it doesn't need the
space for the transformer, rather than because they produce less heat.
(If I understand it right, 20w of heat is the same whether its LV or
240v?)

Does the heat dissipate through the aluminium? Is that a good idea?
What happens to the uPVC if it gets too hot?

I'd like to be armed with some knowledge about this when the guy from
the conservatory company calls me on Monday am to reassure me that
they know what they're doing with regard to this. Should they be
fitted outside the ridge, rather than cut out to fit into it, so that
the heat can dissipate into the air of the conservatory itself. How do
these usually work?

Thanks

Brian

Dunno how they're meant to work in that position.

In our conservatory they put in 3xLV 50W halogens just as you describe with
little plastic collars (probably only about an inch long) as extra spacers.

Sounds like a similar thing. These have been supplied with what the
electrician calls a "biscuit ring" which is a circular plastic ring
shaped fitting, about 10mm deep, to make thelight fittings stand that
much further out from the ridge than they would otherwise do. Still
doesn't look like you're going to get anything like 160mm void depth
though, even with them fitted.

The (electronic I think) transformers are just slipped into the little space
in the "ridge" extrusion with its plastic clip-on cover.

They were put in when the conservatory was built, ISTR about 4-5 years ago.
Two of the bulbs lights within about 1-2 years and I STILL haven't got
around to hauling myself up there to investigate. We have managed with the
single working third light and some wall lights/table lights for a very long
time. (not to self - must get up there one day soon - it's very high up!)

The other issue is that that area at the top of the conservatory seems to
gather condensation so not a winning combination of dampness and
transformers. I really must get up there some tome and fix them - I suspect
it's not just the bulbs that are knacked.

I have to say, I hadn't given any thought to the logistics of changing
failed bulbs g. My experience of halogen lamps is that mains voltage
ones fail more frequently that LV, especially in cold environments.
They seem more prone to blowing when fired up from cold (ie in
winter)...In my office, which is colder than the rest of the house, I
get through a couple of bulbs a month in the winter, and none in the
summer, whereas in the other fittings in the house, where its a little
warmer, I hardly ever change them, winter or summer.

Back to the conservatory, is the aluminium structure a sound place to
dissipate any heat from the fittings? I believe -although they havent
actually said so yet - that this is what the conservatory supplier
may claim.

Brian

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 23:46:46 +0100,
wrote:



Back to the conservatory, is the aluminium structure a sound place to
dissipate any heat from the fittings? I believe -although they havent
actually said so yet - that this is what the conservatory supplier
may claim.

Brian



I don't think so.

The normal fitting position is in a plasterboard ceiling or similar
with space above and to the sides by some way - at least 150mm, if not
more. Cooling is going to therefore mainly be by air circulation
and convection. Since board is a reasonably good insulator, there
is no assumption of it conducting much heat.


If you consider and aluminium beam extrusion in the ridge, it probably
doesn't have any of those properties - probably much less depth and
much smaller space around the fitting. OK, it's aluminium and a
reasonable conductor, but the fitting will not normally have any
substantial amount of area in contact with it.
Perhaps the surface mount types would be a bit better from the heat
point of view, but 4 x 20W ones are not going to do much for you at
all.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

wrote in message . ..
My conservatory installation seems to be turning into the installation
from hell. The current difficulty is with regard to the ridge lighting
(4 downlighters).

(If I understand it right, 20w of heat is the same whether its LV or
240v?)

20w of heat is 20w of heat, no matter what it comes from. 60w of
halogen downlighting is going to give a pretty dim light though, as
well as a not very pleasant one. And downlighters arent energy
efficient either, you need a lot of power for them to light
reasonably.


What happens to the uPVC if it gets too hot?

if it only gets semi hot, plasticisers leach out and after a few years
its discoloured, shrivelled, and very brittle. If it gets hot, it
softens and bends down - hopefully not onto anything hot. Hotter still
and it melts. If any of it could flop onto the light fitting you could
have a fire.

I dont think I'd really be comfortable with what you propose to do.


NT

On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 00:09:29 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 23:46:46 +0100,
wrote:



Back to the conservatory, is the aluminium structure a sound place to
dissipate any heat from the fittings? I believe -although they havent
actually said so yet - that this is what the conservatory supplier
may claim.

Brian



I don't think so.

The normal fitting position is in a plasterboard ceiling or similar
with space above and to the sides by some way - at least 150mm, if not
more. Cooling is going to therefore mainly be by air circulation
and convection. Since board is a reasonably good insulator, there
is no assumption of it conducting much heat.


If you consider and aluminium beam extrusion in the ridge, it probably
doesn't have any of those properties - probably much less depth and
much smaller space around the fitting. OK, it's aluminium and a
reasonable conductor, but the fitting will not normally have any
substantial amount of area in contact with it.
Perhaps the surface mount types would be a bit better from the heat
point of view, but 4 x 20W ones are not going to do much for you at
all.

They're more for addittional directional light than anything. They're
certainly not the only lighting in the whole space..

It turns out the lights are apparently supplied by Ultraframe,
specifically for use in their conservatories, of which this is one.
They look to be the same lights you can see at the bottom of this page

http://www.ultraframe-conservatories...sp?l1=4&l2=261

although I need to speak to Ultraframe on Monday to get the details.
Does anyone have details of how to call them direct? The advertised
phone number is an 01200 number, which only connects you to your
nearest local Ultraframe distributor, which happens to be the company
that are fitting the conservatory

Brian

On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 17:37:37 +0100,
wrote:


They're more for addittional directional light than anything. They're
certainly not the only lighting in the whole space..

It turns out the lights are apparently supplied by Ultraframe,
specifically for use in their conservatories, of which this is one.
They look to be the same lights you can see at the bottom of this page

http://www.ultraframe-conservatories...sp?l1=4&l2=261

although I need to speak to Ultraframe on Monday to get the details.
Does anyone have details of how to call them direct? The advertised
phone number is an 01200 number, which only connects you to your
nearest local Ultraframe distributor, which happens to be the company
that are fitting the conservatory

Brian




Ultraframe have a good reputation for roofs, so must have come up with
a way to handle the issue. These look to be in some kind of frame,
so perhaps with the low rating they are OK.

Poking around their PLC web site I found the recruitment page and
the number of 01200 452215 for the HR department.
You could try that.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl