Any known bugs here? ...

W10 with FireFox

Usually in the evening.

I'll look at both of my gmail accounts, but when
signing out of the second, the laptop freezes with
the disk light on.

There's no keyboard response in FireFox, not even
to Alt-F4, and no mouse cursor.

There's no Internet activity indicated on the
LEDs of the router.

The only recourse is to shut down by an extended
pressing of the power button.

It's only been happening in the last week or so.

TIA

In message , gareth evans
writes
Any known bugs here? ...

W10 with FireFox

Usually in the evening.

I'll look at both of my gmail accounts, but when
signing out of the second, the laptop freezes with
the disk light on.

There's no keyboard response in FireFox, not even
to Alt-F4, and no mouse cursor.

There's no Internet activity indicated on the
LEDs of the router.

The only recourse is to shut down by an extended
pressing of the power button.

It's only been happening in the last week or so.

TIA

Try asking Jim, Gareth - he's an expert on matters digital.
--
Ian

On 27/05/2021 22:00, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , gareth evans
writes
Any known bugs here? ...

W10 with FireFox

Usually in the evening.

I'll look at both of my gmail accounts, but when
signing out of the second, the laptop freezes with
the disk light on.

There's no keyboard response in FireFox, not even
to Alt-F4, and no mouse cursor.

There's no Internet activity indicated on the
LEDs of the router.

The only recourse is to shut down by an extended
pressing of the power button.

It's only been happening in the last week or so.

TIA

Try asking Jim, Gareth - he's an expert on matters digital.

Sorry, who is Jim?

On 27/05/2021 20:22, gareth evans wrote:
Any known bugs here?Â* ...

W10 with FireFox

Usually in the evening.

I'll look at both of my gmail accounts, but when
signing out of the second, the laptop freezes with
the disk light on.

There's no keyboard response in FireFox, not even
to Alt-F4, and no mouse cursor.

There's no Internet activity indicated on the
LEDs of the router.

The only recourse is to shut down by an extended
pressing of the power button.

It's only been happening in the last week or so.

TIA


When this happens, can you Alt/TAB to another application? Can you open
Task Manager with Ctrl/Shift/ESC and then shut down FF, or is everything
completely dead?

When you suspect that it's going to freeze, can you open Task Manager,
display processes and sort on the CPU column to see whether something is
hogging the processor?
--
Cheers,
Roger

On 27/05/2021 22:11, gareth evans wrote:
On 27/05/2021 22:00, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , gareth evans
writes
Any known bugs here?* ...

W10 with FireFox

Usually in the evening.

I'll look at both of my gmail accounts, but when
signing out of the second, the laptop freezes with
the disk light on.

There's no keyboard response in FireFox, not even
to Alt-F4, and no mouse cursor.

There's no Internet activity indicated on the
LEDs of the router.

The only recourse is to shut down by an extended
pressing of the power button.

It's only been happening in the last week or so.

TIA

Try asking Jim, Gareth - he's an expert on matters digital.

Sorry, who is Jim?

me....you just have to accept like I have that digital doesn't work ....

On 27/05/2021 20:22, gareth evans wrote:
Any known bugs here? ...

W10 with FireFox

Usually in the evening.

I'll look at both of my gmail accounts, but when
signing out of the second, the laptop freezes with
the disk light on.

There's no keyboard response in FireFox, not even
to Alt-F4, and no mouse cursor.

There's no Internet activity indicated on the
LEDs of the router.

The only recourse is to shut down by an extended
pressing of the power button.

It's only been happening in the last week or so.

I've had a similar thing with one or two specific websites in Pale Moon
under Linux Mint. It was resolved by adding a couple of domains to "My
filters" in uBlock origin. I think the explanation was a rogue script
which had a sort of recursive call on memory. Once that memory had
filled up the OS just choked.

Try disabling uBlock temporarily if you are running it, and see if that
helps

--

Jeff

On 27/05/2021 22:24, Roger Mills wrote:
On 27/05/2021 20:22, gareth evans wrote:
Any known bugs here? ...

W10 with FireFox

Usually in the evening.

I'll look at both of my gmail accounts, but when
signing out of the second, the laptop freezes with
the disk light on.

There's no keyboard response in FireFox, not even
to Alt-F4, and no mouse cursor.

There's no Internet activity indicated on the
LEDs of the router.

The only recourse is to shut down by an extended
pressing of the power button.

It's only been happening in the last week or so.

TIA


When this happens, can you Alt/TAB to another application? Can you open
Task Manager with Ctrl/Shift/ESC and then shut down FF, or is everything
completely dead?

When you suspect that it's going to freeze, can you open Task Manager,
display processes and sort on the CPU column to see whether something is
hogging the processor?

No, can't launch Task Manager because of unresponsive mouse pad and
keyboard.

gareth evans wrote:
On 27/05/2021 22:24, Roger Mills wrote:
On 27/05/2021 20:22, gareth evans wrote:
Any known bugs here? ...

W10 with FireFox

Usually in the evening.

I'll look at both of my gmail accounts, but when
signing out of the second, the laptop freezes with
the disk light on.

There's no keyboard response in FireFox, not even
to Alt-F4, and no mouse cursor.

There's no Internet activity indicated on the
LEDs of the router.

The only recourse is to shut down by an extended
pressing of the power button.

It's only been happening in the last week or so.

TIA


When this happens, can you Alt/TAB to another application? Can you open
Task Manager with Ctrl/Shift/ESC and then shut down FF, or is everything
completely dead?

When you suspect that it's going to freeze, can you open Task Manager,
display processes and sort on the CPU column to see whether something is
hogging the processor?

No, can't launch Task Manager because of unresponsive mouse pad and
keyboard.


Remove the 64-bit version of Firefox you are running
and use the 32-bit one instead.

This bounds memory usage to 2GB on the 64-bit OS.
That's because the 32-bit address space is split
into 2GB user:2GB kernel space, and it cannot
grab more than 2GB on you.

This is called "keeping greedy Firefox in a cage".

Recommended min memory on the laptop would be 3GB
(which is by chance, what mine has, a 1GB stick,
a 2GB stick). The idea is, if the machine had that
much memory, Firefox might auger in, but leaving
your OS still running. If the machine has the
recommended minimum (1GB RAM installed), then
it's not going to work well running either version.

Look in the Win32 folder he

http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/fire...leases/88.0.1/

Then drill down to he

http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/fire...1/win32/en-GB/

Firefox Setup 88.0.1.exe 52M 04-May-2021 21:46

The profile folders should not care about the bitness.
The Program Files (x86) will have a brand new,
consistent set of materials for the job.

1) Programs and Features : Uninstall Firefox 64 bit
2) Double click your new Firefox Setup 88.0.1.exe and install.

Since you're currently running 88.0.1, the 32 bit version
will require no changes to the Profile folder.

There have been other notes about 21H1 problems on
some machines. You can roll back 21H1, if you have not
already deleted C:\Windows.old . 20H2 likely runs a bit
better. One of the changes, is a change to a HyperV
kind of setup (the Host OS is a guest). I have not
seen a good article with modified-arch picture. There
is an arch picture for Hyper-V, but I would appreciate
seeing penciled in, the crap they're doing on the
recently released setup.

Hypervisors makes debug almost impossible, for any kind
of significant problem.

And no, I also don't have any info on the relationship
of the Hyper-V settings in Programs and Features : Windows Features
versus what the OS is using for itself.

Windows now uses a "container" to launch executables and
this is organizationally claimed to be part of
Windows Defender. Probably at this point, not everything
runs in a container. Office 365 Excel or Word might.

There was a report of reduced framerate in games,
implying a graphics issue caused by HyperV usage.
A computer would be best-off, if it had SLAT/EPT support
in hardware, and of all the relics I have here, only
one computer is really "designed for Windows 10" at
the moment :-/ Until someone can explain what the
changes are doing, it's going to be pretty difficult
to help people, one way or another. I don't
particularly like suggesting going back an OS
revision, but if that's what it takes...

Before 21H1 came in, on hearing some of the plan
(the Container Era), I was concerned that older
computers would just be turned away. But that
didn't happen. They could only do that, by
relaxing the SLAT/EPT requirement (which costs
frame rate on graphics). And guess what, Firefox
uses hardware compositing, and it recomputes
that web page *60 times a second* using the GPU.
There's a flogging going on there. Now, is that
important ? Well, who really knows.

Your symptoms don't suggest any of my answers
are right. What is it doing to the disk ?
Process Monitor is the only tool we've got, and
there is no assurance it can tell us anything about
"items launched in containers".

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sys...nloads/procmon

It's the same on Linux. A guy said "can someone help me with
this Snap, it's running slow". And that's when I discovered
I had zero tools to use with it. The gentleman was a *developer*,
not a user, and he was at a loss as to what to do next. And
that's containerization.

Some people love the containers. You can see some horribly
written articles by them on the web. I get the impression
though, the stuff they use "just works" and they wake
up every morning with the sun shining and so on.

Good luck, and if you see any change in symptoms,
report back. Just so there are more reports of
what helps or doesn't help.

Paul

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
On 27/05/2021 22:11, gareth evans wrote:
On 27/05/2021 22:00, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , gareth evans
writes
Any known bugs here? ...

W10 with FireFox

Usually in the evening.

I'll look at both of my gmail accounts, but when
signing out of the second, the laptop freezes with
the disk light on.

There's no keyboard response in FireFox, not even
to Alt-F4, and no mouse cursor.

There's no Internet activity indicated on the
LEDs of the router.

The only recourse is to shut down by an extended
pressing of the power button.

It's only been happening in the last week or so.

TIA

Try asking Jim, Gareth - he's an expert on matters digital.

Sorry, who is Jim?

me....you just have to accept like I have that digital doesn't work ....

Didn’t realise you were still using a manual
typewriter and paper to post to usenet. Funky.

So its only Firefox? Have you tried a reinstall or using the previous
version?

Usually there are smoking guns in various log files when it occurs. It
sounds like a memory leak if it crashes the whole machine. However a couple
of years ago I had a weird problem like this with word, and in the end it
turned out to be hardware. One ram stick was suspect and fitting another
fixed it.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"gareth evans" wrote in message
...
Any known bugs here? ...

W10 with FireFox

Usually in the evening.

I'll look at both of my gmail accounts, but when
signing out of the second, the laptop freezes with
the disk light on.

There's no keyboard response in FireFox, not even
to Alt-F4, and no mouse cursor.

There's no Internet activity indicated on the
LEDs of the router.

The only recourse is to shut down by an extended
pressing of the power button.

It's only been happening in the last week or so.

TIA

On Fri, 28 May 2021 09:19:33 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Sorry, who is Jim?

me....you just have to accept like I have that digital doesn't work ....

Didn¢t realise you were still using a manual
typewriter and paper to post to usenet. Funky.

Everyone has realized that you are a ****ing stupid troll, senile asshole!

--
Richard addressing senile Rodent Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

On Friday, 28 May 2021 at 00:04:22 UTC+1, Paul wrote:

Remove the 64-bit version of Firefox you are running
and use the 32-bit one instead.

This bounds memory usage to 2GB on the 64-bit OS.
That's because the 32-bit address space is split
into 2GB user:2GB kernel space, and it cannot
grab more than 2GB on you.

This is called "keeping greedy Firefox in a cage".

Recommended min memory on the laptop would be 3GB
(which is by chance, what mine has, a 1GB stick,
a 2GB stick). The idea is, if the machine had that
much memory, Firefox might auger in, but leaving
your OS still running. If the machine has the
recommended minimum (1GB RAM installed), then
it's not going to work well running either version.

I don't find Firefox an issue - but I do have plenty of RAM. 16GB on the machine I'm now using. Firefox uses less than 2 GB despite having about forty tabs open and, effectively, nothing else running and competing with it.

My personal experience is that 8GB has been a practical minimum for Windows 10 since it came out. Despite the claims to the contrary. Yes - I know you can run it on less but it is often not very happy. I was for a time running a 4GB Surface and changed to a very similar spec. with 8GB (after a replacement due to a hardware issue with the screen). The difference was even greater than I expected - and I knew to expect quite a jump.

I think there were issues in the last week or so - possibly due to some combination of Windows updates/Firefox/Office/something else. Seems fine now but for a couple of days had some odd issues. At least one Windows update appeared to have been re-released (assuming after it had been revised).

On 27/05/2021 22:00, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , gareth evans
writes
Any known bugs here?Â* ...

W10 with FireFox

Usually in the evening.

I'll look at both of my gmail accounts, but when
signing out of the second, the laptop freezes with
the disk light on.

There's no keyboard response in FireFox, not even
to Alt-F4, and no mouse cursor.

There's no Internet activity indicated on the
LEDs of the router.

The only recourse is to shut down by an extended
pressing of the power button.

It's only been happening in the last week or so.

TIA

Try asking Jim, Gareth - he's an expert on matters digital.

well if windows behaves anything like linux, that is a sign that
uninterruptible disk activity is going on.

Now its fine for Winders of firefox to flush its caches as gmail closes
any locally held files ...

....but that should complete unless its doing some sort of data
reorganization - Thunderbird does 'folder compression' which can do
this, but even that is interruptible

No, my fear is that what is actually happening is that winders is trying
to read or write to a bad disk.

You need to invoke SMART tools to interrogate the disk and see if there
are in fact too many errors


--
"Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace,
community, compassion, investment, security, housing...."
"What kind of person is not interested in those things?"

"Jeremy Corbyn?"

On 27/05/2021 22:56, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 27/05/2021 20:22, gareth evans wrote:
Any known bugs here?Â* ...

W10 with FireFox

Usually in the evening.

I'll look at both of my gmail accounts, but when
signing out of the second, the laptop freezes with
the disk light on.

There's no keyboard response in FireFox, not even
to Alt-F4, and no mouse cursor.

There's no Internet activity indicated on the
LEDs of the router.

The only recourse is to shut down by an extended
pressing of the power button.

It's only been happening in the last week or so.

I've had a similar thing with one or two specific websites in Pale Moon
under Linux Mint. It was resolved by adding a couple of domains to "My
filters" in uBlock origin. I think the explanation was a rogue script
which had a sort of recursive call on memory. Once that memory had
filled up the OS just choked.


I thought of that but rejected it in this instance because of the
permanently on disk light..

"Using native JavaScript, no, it is not generally possible to access a
local file. Using plugins and extensions like ActiveX, Flash, or Java
you can get around this rule, generally with some difficulty".

What that means is that its a really bad and nasty web app if it IS
causing continuous disk access.

essentially a virus. BUT ...
....browsers use the disk a LOT as a cache and to store cookies and other
stuff.

So my best guess is a bad disk

Yes Java**** can cause browsers and computers to lock up, but not with
the disk light on


Try disabling uBlock temporarily if you are running it, and see if that
helps

Or disabling javascript...


--
€œThe fundamental cause of the trouble in the modern world today is that
the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt."

- Bertrand Russell

On 27/05/2021 20:22, gareth evans wrote:
Any known bugs here?Â* ...

W10 with FireFox

Usually in the evening.

I'll look at both of my gmail accounts, but when
signing out of the second, the laptop freezes with
the disk light on.

There's no keyboard response in FireFox, not even
to Alt-F4, and no mouse cursor.

There's no Internet activity indicated on the
LEDs of the router.

The only recourse is to shut down by an extended
pressing of the power button.

It's only been happening in the last week or so.

1) Check hard disk for failure
2) Check you've updated Firefox
3) Use Chrome for gmail

On 28/05/2021 11:32, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 27/05/2021 22:56, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 27/05/2021 20:22, gareth evans wrote:
Any known bugs here?Â* ...

W10 with FireFox

Usually in the evening.

I'll look at both of my gmail accounts, but when
signing out of the second, the laptop freezes with
the disk light on.

There's no keyboard response in FireFox, not even
to Alt-F4, and no mouse cursor.

There's no Internet activity indicated on the
LEDs of the router.

The only recourse is to shut down by an extended
pressing of the power button.

It's only been happening in the last week or so.

I've had a similar thing with one or two specific websites in Pale Moon
under Linux Mint. It was resolved by adding a couple of domains to "My
filters" in uBlock origin. I think the explanation was a rogue script
which had a sort of recursive call on memory. Once that memory had
filled up the OS just choked.


I thought of that but rejected it in this instance because of the
permanently on disk light..

I don't know for certain, but if ram was full wouldn't the script try to
access more memory by using the swap file on the HD? That would lead to
an "on" disk access led.

"Using native JavaScript, no, it is not generally possible to access a
local file. Using plugins and extensions like ActiveX, Flash, or Java
you can get around this rule, generally with some difficulty".

What that means is that its a really bad and nasty web app if it IS
causing continuous disk access.

It only needs one of those nasties to lock up the OS.

essentially a virus. BUT ...
...browsers use the disk a LOT as a cache and to store cookies and other
stuff.

So my best guess is a bad disk

Yes Java**** can cause browsers and computers to lock up, but not with
the disk light on


Try disabling uBlock temporarily if you are running it, and see if that
helps

Or disabling javascript...

Isn't that, to some extent, what uBlock does?

--

Jeff

On 27/05/2021 20:22, gareth evans wrote:
Any known bugs here?Â* ...

W10 with FireFox

Usually in the evening.

I'll look at both of my gmail accounts, but when
signing out of the second, the laptop freezes with
the disk light on.

There's no keyboard response in FireFox, not even
to Alt-F4, and no mouse cursor.

There's no Internet activity indicated on the
LEDs of the router.

The only recourse is to shut down by an extended
pressing of the power button.

It's only been happening in the last week or so.

TIA


Look in the Event Viewer for any system event errors/warnings around the
time of the hang.

I've been getting occasional hangs recently following a video driver
update; is your laptop AMD Radeon - based graphics by any chance?

--
Reentrant

Yes its a process of elimination really. If its an ssd, my old 256 ssd
started like this before one day it was gone completely and had to put in a
new ssd and restore from a back up.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 27/05/2021 20:22, gareth evans wrote:
Any known bugs here? ...

W10 with FireFox

Usually in the evening.

I'll look at both of my gmail accounts, but when
signing out of the second, the laptop freezes with
the disk light on.

There's no keyboard response in FireFox, not even
to Alt-F4, and no mouse cursor.

There's no Internet activity indicated on the
LEDs of the router.

The only recourse is to shut down by an extended
pressing of the power button.

It's only been happening in the last week or so.

1) Check hard disk for failure
2) Check you've updated Firefox
3) Use Chrome for gmail

On 28/05/2021 13:37, Reentrant wrote:
On 27/05/2021 20:22, gareth evans wrote:
Any known bugs here? ...

W10 with FireFox

Usually in the evening.

I'll look at both of my gmail accounts, but when
signing out of the second, the laptop freezes with
the disk light on.

There's no keyboard response in FireFox, not even
to Alt-F4, and no mouse cursor.

There's no Internet activity indicated on the
LEDs of the router.

The only recourse is to shut down by an extended
pressing of the power button.

It's only been happening in the last week or so.

TIA


Look in the Event Viewer for any system event errors/warnings around the
time of the hang.

I've been getting occasional hangs recently following a video driver
update; is your laptop AMD Radeon - based graphics by any chance?


Asuspro laptop Intel 1G8Hz, no info on the graphics chip, about 7 years old.

On Thu, 27 May 2021 20:22:37 +0100, gareth evans wrote:

Any known bugs here? ...

W10 with FireFox

Usually in the evening.

I'll look at both of my gmail accounts, but when signing out of the
second, the laptop freezes with the disk light on.

There's no keyboard response in FireFox, not even to Alt-F4, and no
mouse cursor.

There's no Internet activity indicated on the LEDs of the router.

The only recourse is to shut down by an extended pressing of the power
button.

It's only been happening in the last week or so.

TIA

Gareth download a trial application for 'Process Lasso' and run it. It
will identify any processor hogging applications that are running. You
will have the opportunity to terminate the troublesome app.

In a quiescent state your computer should look like this:
https://ibb.co/WfC205R

On 29/05/2021 06:50, jon wrote:
On Thu, 27 May 2021 20:22:37 +0100, gareth evans wrote:

Any known bugs here? ...

W10 with FireFox

Usually in the evening.

I'll look at both of my gmail accounts, but when signing out of the
second, the laptop freezes with the disk light on.

There's no keyboard response in FireFox, not even to Alt-F4, and no
mouse cursor.

There's no Internet activity indicated on the LEDs of the router.

The only recourse is to shut down by an extended pressing of the power
button.

It's only been happening in the last week or so.

TIA

Gareth download a trial application for 'Process Lasso' and run it. It
will identify any processor hogging applications that are running. You
will have the opportunity to terminate the troublesome app.

In a quiescent state your computer should look like this:
https://ibb.co/WfC205R


That causes a McAfee web site caution!

On 29/05/2021 14:34, gareth evans wrote:
On 29/05/2021 06:50, jon wrote:
On Thu, 27 May 2021 20:22:37 +0100, gareth evans wrote:

Any known bugs here?Â* ...

W10 with FireFox

Usually in the evening.

I'll look at both of my gmail accounts, but when signing out of the
second, the laptop freezes with the disk light on.

There's no keyboard response in FireFox, not even to Alt-F4, and no
mouse cursor.

There's no Internet activity indicated on the LEDs of the router.

The only recourse is to shut down by an extended pressing of the power
button.

It's only been happening in the last week or so.

TIA

Gareth download a trial application for 'Process Lasso' and run it. It
will identify any processor hogging applications that are running. You
will have the opportunity to terminate the troublesome app.

In a quiescent state your computer should look like this:
Â*https://ibb.co/WfC205R


That causes a McAfee web site caution!

Virustotal pretty much gives it a clean bill of health.

jon wrote:
On Thu, 27 May 2021 20:22:37 +0100, gareth evans wrote:

Any known bugs here? ...

W10 with FireFox

Usually in the evening.

I'll look at both of my gmail accounts, but when signing out of the
second, the laptop freezes with the disk light on.

There's no keyboard response in FireFox, not even to Alt-F4, and no
mouse cursor.

There's no Internet activity indicated on the LEDs of the router.

The only recourse is to shut down by an extended pressing of the power
button.

It's only been happening in the last week or so.

TIA

Gareth download a trial application for 'Process Lasso' and run it. It
will identify any processor hogging applications that are running. You
will have the opportunity to terminate the troublesome app.

In a quiescent state your computer should look like this:
https://ibb.co/WfC205R

21H1 seems to be virtualized.

I notice that Task Manager no longer aligns with
machine state and CPU usage.

Hyper-V is an inverted hypervisor, and the "host" OS
runs as a "client" of Hyper-V.

In the "Era of Containerization", we will not be able
to figure anything out. I've already discovered this on
Linux, with Snaps. You can have software behaviors which
are a function of which security ring they run in.

Microsoft laughs at your Process Lasso now. You're screwed.

We need a lot more documentation to be dealing with
this era. If only Mark Russinovich was not being held
hostage in a cheese factory... (He's the Sysinternals guy
and used to write excellent tutorials on how stuff works.
He used to write and sell books about Windows Internals.)

*******

I think I'm going to have to install an "absolutely clean"
copy of 21H1, just to see what the baseline behavior is. And
go the reverse engineering route (add softwares, check
for weirdness and added items where they don't belong).

I suspect (but don't know for sure), that 21H1 uses Hyper-V,
even when Hyper-V is not switched on in
Programs and Features : Windows Features.

It would use that for WDAG, when it uses a 2.4GB "mini-OS"
as a container to run a copy of Office Excel. Or use it
in some way when WSL2 Bash shell is installed and running.

(They changed the name to MDAG, but the hardware requirements
to make it work, tell you what it's doing...)

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...s-md-app-guard

To get to Control Panels, to check, you can start : run
and use control.exe , then pin the item in the Taskbar
so it will always be available.

One part of this I couldn't figure out, is what
happens to machines not particularly set up to support
Hyper-V ? Do they switch it off ? Do they block your
upgrade to 21H1 ? No idea. I would have to run an
"absolutely clean" install on a Core2 (non-HyperV)
machine to see.

I'd much rather have some well-written articles on
the topic, than do this via reverse engineering.

You can also run Windows 10 in a virtual machine,
and then what happens to this container stuff ?
The test cases are endless.

Paul

On Sat, 29 May 2021 10:30:29 -0400, Paul wrote:

jon wrote:
On Thu, 27 May 2021 20:22:37 +0100, gareth evans wrote:

Any known bugs here? ...

W10 with FireFox

Usually in the evening.

I'll look at both of my gmail accounts, but when signing out of the
second, the laptop freezes with the disk light on.

There's no keyboard response in FireFox, not even to Alt-F4, and no
mouse cursor.

There's no Internet activity indicated on the LEDs of the router.

The only recourse is to shut down by an extended pressing of the power
button.

It's only been happening in the last week or so.

TIA

Gareth download a trial application for 'Process Lasso' and run it. It
will identify any processor hogging applications that are running. You
will have the opportunity to terminate the troublesome app.

In a quiescent state your computer should look like this:
https://ibb.co/WfC205R

21H1 seems to be virtualized.

I notice that Task Manager no longer aligns with machine state and CPU
usage.

Hyper-V is an inverted hypervisor, and the "host" OS runs as a "client"
of Hyper-V.

In the "Era of Containerization", we will not be able to figure anything
out. I've already discovered this on Linux, with Snaps. You can have
software behaviors which are a function of which security ring they run
in.

Microsoft laughs at your Process Lasso now. You're screwed.

We need a lot more documentation to be dealing with this era. If only
Mark Russinovich was not being held hostage in a cheese factory... (He's
the Sysinternals guy and used to write excellent tutorials on how stuff
works.
He used to write and sell books about Windows Internals.)

*******

I think I'm going to have to install an "absolutely clean" copy of 21H1,
just to see what the baseline behavior is. And go the reverse
engineering route (add softwares, check for weirdness and added items
where they don't belong).

I suspect (but don't know for sure), that 21H1 uses Hyper-V, even when
Hyper-V is not switched on in Programs and Features : Windows Features.

It would use that for WDAG, when it uses a 2.4GB "mini-OS" as a
container to run a copy of Office Excel. Or use it in some way when WSL2
Bash shell is installed and running.

(They changed the name to MDAG, but the hardware requirements to make it
work, tell you what it's doing...)

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...at-protection/
microsoft-defender-application-guard/reqs-md-app-guard

To get to Control Panels, to check, you can start : run and use
control.exe , then pin the item in the Taskbar so it will always be
available.

One part of this I couldn't figure out, is what happens to machines not
particularly set up to support Hyper-V ? Do they switch it off ? Do they
block your upgrade to 21H1 ? No idea. I would have to run an "absolutely
clean" install on a Core2 (non-HyperV)
machine to see.

I'd much rather have some well-written articles on the topic, than do
this via reverse engineering.

You can also run Windows 10 in a virtual machine,
and then what happens to this container stuff ?
The test cases are endless.

Paul

I am happy with Server 2019 Workstation, it does all I need, is stable,
predictable and clean.

On 28/05/2021 13:08, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 28/05/2021 11:32, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 27/05/2021 22:56, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 27/05/2021 20:22, gareth evans wrote:
Any known bugs here?Â* ...

W10 with FireFox

Usually in the evening.

I'll look at both of my gmail accounts, but when
signing out of the second, the laptop freezes with
the disk light on.

There's no keyboard response in FireFox, not even
to Alt-F4, and no mouse cursor.

There's no Internet activity indicated on the
LEDs of the router.

The only recourse is to shut down by an extended
pressing of the power button.

It's only been happening in the last week or so.

I've had a similar thing with one or two specific websites in Pale Moon
under Linux Mint. It was resolved by adding a couple of domains to "My
filters" in uBlock origin. I think the explanation was a rogue script
which had a sort of recursive call on memory. Once that memory had
filled up the OS just choked.


I thought of that but rejected it in this instance because of the
permanently on disk light..

I don't know for certain, but if ram was full wouldn't the script try to
access more memory by using the swap file on the HD? That would lead to
an "on" disk access led.

yes, but in my experience thats not solid on - thats fliclkering on and off.

"Using native JavaScript, no, it is not generally possible to access a
local file. Using plugins and extensions like ActiveX, Flash, or Java
you can get around this rule, generally with some difficulty".

What that means is that its a really bad and nasty web app if it IS
causing continuous disk access.

It only needs one of those nasties to lock up the OS.

essentially a virus. BUT ...
...browsers use the disk a LOT as a cache and to store cookies and other
stuff.

So my best guess is a bad disk

Yes Java**** can cause browsers and computers to lock up, but not with
the disk light on


Try disabling uBlock temporarily if you are running it, and see if that
helps

Or disabling javascript...

Isn't that, to some extent, what uBlock does?

Not unless you tell it to.

I use ublock to disable javascript so I can read (but not comment on)
the daily telegraph...for free.


--
You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
kind word alone.

Al Capone

I have picked up on a number of sugestions here, and
for the moment am using google chrome for gmail access
and it has not happened again, although still using
FireFox, as for this post, because it's where all my
logins and bookmarks are.

Oh no! This ain't FireFox, it's Thunderbird, but can I
quote Pontius Pilate, "What I have written, I have written"?