Recently, I ordered something (costing about £700) from the Czech
republic and have just been sent a demand for £143 duty and handling
from DHL. My choices are to refuse the shipment, which means I get
refunded less shipping charges, or pay. Bu&&er!

On 13/05/2021 14:05, wrote:
Recently, I ordered something (costing about £700) from the Czech
republic and have just been sent a demand for £143 duty and handling
from DHL. My choices are to refuse the shipment, which means I get
refunded less shipping charges, or pay. Bu&&er!

But you wouldn't have paid VAT on the original purchase!

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

In article ,
wrote:
Recently, I ordered something (costing about £700) from the Czech
republic and have just been sent a demand for £143 duty and handling
from DHL. My choices are to refuse the shipment, which means I get
refunded less shipping charges, or pay. Bu&&er!

There been enough publicity over import charges over the last 4 months. I'm
surprised you hadn't anticipated this. VAT alone would be £140 on a £700
item.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 13/05/2021 14:12, alan_m wrote:
On 13/05/2021 14:05, wrote:
Recently, I ordered something (costing about £700) from the Czech
republic and have just been sent a demand for £143 duty and handling
from DHL. My choices are to refuse the shipment, which means I get
refunded less shipping charges, or pay. Bu&&er!

But you wouldn't have paid VAT on the original purchase!

He might or might not have - not all sellers are clued-up to
importing/exporting to the UK.

Simple answer is the 'B'-word...

On 13/05/2021 14:05, wrote:
Recently, I ordered something (costing about £700) from the Czech
republic and have just been sent a demand for £143 duty and handling
from DHL. My choices are to refuse the shipment, which means I get
refunded less shipping charges, or pay. Bu&&er!

VAT perhaps but not duty...


--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

On 13/05/2021 14:05, wrote:
Recently, I ordered something (costing about £700) from the Czech
republic and have just been sent a demand for £143 duty and handling
from DHL. My choices are to refuse the shipment, which means I get
refunded less shipping charges, or pay. Bu&&er!

One of the consequences of Brexit.

--
Colin Bignell

On 13/05/2021 14:05, wrote:
Recently, I ordered something (costing about £700) from the Czech
republic and have just been sent a demand for £143 duty and handling
from DHL. My choices are to refuse the shipment, which means I get
refunded less shipping charges, or pay. Bu&&er!


Hopefully, your Czech seller charged you an ex-VAT price, as they are
exporting the item? You clearly now need to pay VAT on import.

Prior to Brexit, I think, the system was that you paid the price in
Czech Republic including their VAT, and you didn't need to pay the VAT
when you imported the item here?

alan_m wrote:

wrote:

Recently, I ordered something (costing about £700) from the Czech
republic and have just been sent a demand for £143 duty and handling
from DHL.

But you wouldn't have paid VAT on the original purchase!

If he'd paid VAT at the .cz end instead of the .uk end it would probably
have been 21% instead of 20% (unless it's one of a range of reduced rate
products)

https://www.avalara.com/vatlive/en/country-guides/europe/czech-republic/czech-vat-rates.html

On 13/05/2021 15:24, nightjar wrote:
On 13/05/2021 14:05, wrote:
Recently, I ordered something (costing about £700) from the Czech
republic and have just been sent a demand for £143 duty and handling
from DHL. My choices are to refuse the shipment, which means I get
refunded less shipping charges, or pay. Bu&&er!

One of the consequences of Brexit.

The consequence is you pay UK VAT and not Czech VAT.

The VAT now goes the UK Treasury.

On 13/05/2021 15:31, GB wrote:
On 13/05/2021 14:05, wrote:
Recently, I ordered something (costing about £700) from the Czech
republic and have just been sent a demand for £143 duty and handling
from DHL. My choices are to refuse the shipment, which means I get
refunded less shipping charges, or pay. Bu&&er!


Hopefully, your Czech seller charged you an ex-VAT price, as they are
exporting the item? You clearly now need to pay VAT on import.

Prior to Brexit, I think, the system was that you paid the price in
Czech Republic including their VAT, and you didn't need to pay the VAT
when you imported the item here?


AFAICR that is how it was, despite variable VAT rates between EU nations
(there were no fuel stations in Luxembourg last time I drove through it
- everyone drove into Belgium, to fill up)

OTOH importing from the USA netted you import duty, handling charge and
VAT on the ruddy lot.


--
€œA leader is best When people barely know he exists. Of a good leader,
who talks little,When his work is done, his aim fulfilled,They will say,
€œWe did this ourselves.€�

ۥ Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

On 13/05/2021 16:03, Fredxx wrote:
On 13/05/2021 15:24, nightjar wrote:
On 13/05/2021 14:05, wrote:
Recently, I ordered something (costing about £700) from the Czech
republic and have just been sent a demand for £143 duty and handling
from DHL. My choices are to refuse the shipment, which means I get
refunded less shipping charges, or pay. Bu&&er!

One of the consequences of Brexit.

The consequence is you pay UK VAT and not Czech VAT.

The VAT now goes the UK Treasury.


That's not of great comfort to the OP, faced with an unexpected bill for
£143. Anyway, hopefully he voted for Brexit, so at least he voted for
this fiasco.

On 13/05/2021 02:05 pm, wrote:

Recently, I ordered something (costing about £700) from the Czech
republic and have just been sent a demand for £143 duty and handling
from DHL. My choices are to refuse the shipment, which means I get
refunded less shipping charges, or pay. Bu&&er!

Most of that will be VAT, I suggest.

On 13/05/2021 03:15 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 13/05/2021 14:05, wrote:

Recently, I ordered something (costing about £700) from the Czech
republic and have just been sent a demand for £143 duty and handling
from DHL. My choices are to refuse the shipment, which means I get
refunded less shipping charges, or pay. Bu&&er!

VAT perhaps but not duty...

There's probably no duty to be charged from the Czech Republic (due to
agreements). VAT will be chargeable on the purchase price plus the shipping.

Had he bought from (say) the USA, a £700 purchase would probably have
been free of state tax, but subject to UK import duty of about 2% on the
price and on the shipping charges. The 102% would then have been
increased by 20% for VAT.

So a £700 purchase could have been (assuming £50 for shipping):

(£700 + £50) = £750.

£750 plus 2% = £765.

VAT on £765 @ 20% = £153.

Total price at the door: £918 PLUS the charge made by the courier for
the collection of the taxes.

Standard stuff (subject to the correct figure for import duty). It's
been like that for a long time.

On 13/05/2021 16:03, Fredxx wrote:
On 13/05/2021 15:24, nightjar wrote:
On 13/05/2021 14:05, wrote:
Recently, I ordered something (costing about £700) from the Czech
republic and have just been sent a demand for £143 duty and handling
from DHL. My choices are to refuse the shipment, which means I get
refunded less shipping charges, or pay. Bu&&er!

One of the consequences of Brexit.

The consequence is you pay UK VAT and not Czech VAT.

In addition, like the OP, you also get a bill for customs duty, which
was not something you needed to pay wile we were part of the Customs Union.

The VAT now goes the UK Treasury.

Who now gets none of the VAT on sales to the EU.

--
Colin Bignell

On 13/05/2021 04:22 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/05/2021 15:31, GB wrote:
On 13/05/2021 14:05, wrote:
Recently, I ordered something (costing about £700) from the Czech
republic and have just been sent a demand for £143 duty and handling
from DHL. My choices are to refuse the shipment, which means I get
refunded less shipping charges, or pay. Bu&&er!


Hopefully, your Czech seller charged you an ex-VAT price, as they are
exporting the item? You clearly now need to pay VAT on import.

Prior to Brexit, I think, the system was that you paid the price in
Czech Republic including their VAT, and you didn't need to pay the VAT
when you imported the item here?


AFAICR that is how it was, despite variable VAT rates between EU nations
(there were no fuel stations in Luxembourg last time I drove through it
- everyone drove into Belgium, to fill up)

For anyone near the Belgium / Luxembourg border, it's precisely the
other way round. Luxembourg has the cheapest fuel in western Europe.
They do it deliberately in order to, among other things, take advantage
of Belgian demand (as well as demand from north-south travellers on the
E411.

OTOH importing from the USA netted you import duty, handling charge and
VAT on the ruddy lot.

On 13/05/2021 15:31, GB wrote:
On 13/05/2021 14:05, wrote:
Recently, I ordered something (costing about £700) from the Czech
republic and have just been sent a demand for £143 duty and handling
from DHL. My choices are to refuse the shipment, which means I get
refunded less shipping charges, or pay. Bu&&er!


Hopefully, your Czech seller charged you an ex-VAT price, as they are
exporting the item? You clearly now need to pay VAT on import.

Prior to Brexit, I think, the system was that you paid the price in
Czech Republic including their VAT, and you didn't need to pay the VAT
when you imported the item here?

If VAT was paid in the country of origin, none was due in the country of
destination. However, the rate applied did not have to be that of the
country of origin. The rate in the country of destination could be
charged instead. It still counted as a VAT paid sale in either case.
That could make it attractive for people to buy from a country with a
lower VAT rate for the goods they wanted.

--
Colin Bignell

GB a écrit :
One of the consequences of Brexit.

The consequence is you pay UK VAT and not Czech VAT.

The VAT now goes the UK Treasury.

'Conseqences'? Instead of paying VAT to the Czech government, he will
instead be paying it to the UK Governemnt. The Chinese, as usual, are
ahead of the game, they charge the VAT on ordering, which they are then
supposed to send to the UK Goverment???

JNugent a écrit :
Most of that will be VAT, I suggest.

They usually claim £10 to £15 extra, for handling the collection of
VAT.
Pay at source and that extra is avoided. £10 extra on a small cheap
item, is a lot.

GB wrote:

Fredxx wrote:

The VAT now goes the UK Treasury.

That's not of great comfort to the OP, faced with an unexpected bill for
£143. Anyway, hopefully he voted for Brexit, so at least he voted for
this fiasco.

brexit or none, the price difference is probably £7 less VAT and £10
more handling charge. An extra £3 on an £840 item is neither here nor there.

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

The Chinese, as usual, are ahead of the game, they charge the VAT on
ordering, which they are then supposed to send to the UK Goverment???

Only for "low value" orders, if it was over £135 it'd be charged the
same way that the czech seller did.

On 13/05/2021 04:57 pm, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
GB a écrit :
One of the consequences of Brexit.

The consequence is you pay UK VAT and not Czech VAT.

The VAT now goes the UK Treasury.

'Conseqences'? Instead of paying VAT to the Czech government, he will
instead be paying it to the UK Governemnt. The Chinese, as usual, are
ahead of the game, they charge the VAT on ordering, which they are then
supposed to send to the UK Goverment???

Both systems are in operation.

Paying the VAT at the UK end is for items costing more than a certain
amount (more than £100, less than £200).

On 13/05/2021 04:59 pm, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

JNugent a écrit :

Most of that will be VAT, I suggest.

They usually claim £10 to £15 extra, for handling the collection of VAT.
Pay at source and that extra is avoided. £10 extra on a small cheap
item, is a lot.

The item has to be more than £135 or so for that system to operate.

£10 extra on a £900+ item (when including VAT, duty (if any) and VAT),
not so much.

On 13/05/2021 16:33, GB wrote:
On 13/05/2021 16:03, Fredxx wrote:
On 13/05/2021 15:24, nightjar wrote:
On 13/05/2021 14:05, wrote:
Recently, I ordered something (costing about £700) from the Czech
republic and have just been sent a demand for £143 duty and handling
from DHL. My choices are to refuse the shipment, which means I get
refunded less shipping charges, or pay. Bu&&er!

One of the consequences of Brexit.

The consequence is you pay UK VAT and not Czech VAT.

The VAT now goes the UK Treasury.


That's not of great comfort to the OP, faced with an unexpected bill for
£143. Anyway, hopefully he voted for Brexit, so at least he voted for
this fiasco.

I think you misunderstand the VAT situation.

In the good old days you would pay Czech VAT on this purchase of £700 of
£147 as their VAT rate is 21%

If I'm not mistaken the UK VAT rate is 20%, so VAT of £140 would
currently be payable on its import.

The Czech seller should already have come across instances where VAT is,
or is not chargeable, depending on whether the UK buyer is VAT
registered or not.

In short Brexit should have saved the OP £7.

If the bill was unexpected then that is down to ignorance. He would also
be ignorant of the £7 saving he's made post-Brexit.

On 13/05/2021 16:42, nightjar wrote:
On 13/05/2021 16:03, Fredxx wrote:
On 13/05/2021 15:24, nightjar wrote:
On 13/05/2021 14:05, wrote:
Recently, I ordered something (costing about £700) from the Czech
republic and have just been sent a demand for £143 duty and handling
from DHL. My choices are to refuse the shipment, which means I get
refunded less shipping charges, or pay. Bu&&er!

One of the consequences of Brexit.

The consequence is you pay UK VAT and not Czech VAT.

In addition, like the OP, you also get a bill for customs duty, which
was not something you needed to pay wile we were part of the Customs Union.

The VAT now goes the UK Treasury.

Who now gets none of the VAT on sales to the EU.

But it is a net benefit to the UK, as the balance of trade with the EU
is heavily biased to importing rather than exporting.

On 13/05/2021 17:43, Steve Walker wrote:

But it is a net benefit to the UK, as the balance of trade with the EU
is heavily biased to importing rather than exporting.


In 2019, UK exports to the EU were £294 billion (43% of all UK exports).
UK imports from the EU were £374 billion (52% of all UK imports).


So, the benefit is £16bn? Except that exports are down, as nobody can do
the paperwork.

On 13/05/2021 14:05, wrote:
Recently, I ordered something (costing about £700) from the Czech
republic and have just been sent a demand for £143 duty and handling
from DHL. My choices are to refuse the shipment, which means I get
refunded less shipping charges, or pay. Bu&&er!
It looks like I've exposed my ignorance. This is the first time I've
imported since BREXIT and had assumed the demand was an import duty
being charged on top of VAT, but the replies sent me scurrying off to
look for more info. I am now (slightly) wiser and realise that I'd
misunderstood and that the demand was for the VAT - the 20% rate should
have been a hint.
Ah well, nobody (not even accomplished DIYers) can be an expert on
everything ;-)

Harry Bloomfield, Esq., wrote:
GB a écrit :
One of the consequences of Brexit.

The consequence is you pay UK VAT and not Czech VAT.

The VAT now goes the UK Treasury.

'Conseqences'? Instead of paying VAT to the Czech government, he will
instead be paying it to the UK Governemnt. The Chinese, as usual, are
ahead of the game, they charge the VAT on ordering, which they are then
supposed to send to the UK Goverment???

It's down to the amount whether the sender charges UK VAT or not,
nothing to do with where it came from.

For purchases valued up to (I think it is) £135 the seller has to
collect the UK VAT and pass it on to HMRC. For purchases over this
amount the seller doesn't charge VAT but it will be charged somehow
when the item comes into the UK.

I.e. you now get charged 'tax' in addition to the advertised price
when you buy things from AliExpress, previously it was very rare to be
charged any VAT/Tax at all.

--
Chris Green
·

On 13/05/2021 16:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
AFAICR that is how it was, despite variable VAT rates between EU nations (there were no fuel stations in Luxembourg last time I drove through it - everyone drove into Belgium, to fill up)

Every time I drive through Luxembourg I fill up the car - petrol there is easily the cheapest in any of the European countries that I know of even in a motorway service station. A very easy one to find on the motorway a km or two before the Belgian border when heading west. We can usually get back to the UK on a full tank. It's a couple of years since we were last there but I'd be surprised if relative prices have changed that much.

--
Clive Page

wrote:
Recently, I ordered something (costing about £700) from the Czech
republic and have just been sent a demand for £143 duty and handling
from DHL. My choices are to refuse the shipment, which means I get
refunded less shipping charges, or pay. Bu&&er!

When DHL does that shakedown here,
the "handling" is more than the "duty".

You can't assume from the magnitude of the bill,
that all that money goes to your government.

You can assign your own customs broker in place
of the DHL one, by filling out some form. That's
unlikely to be all that much cheaper (just another
pirate trap, yarrh).

The best we can do here, is send items via the
postal system, where the brokerage charge is
more reasonable. Of course, most sellers
absolutely refuse to use post, because where is
the fun in not gouging consumers.

Paul

"Paul" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Recently, I ordered something (costing about £700) from the Czech
republic and have just been sent a demand for £143 duty and handling from
DHL. My choices are to refuse the shipment, which means I get refunded
less shipping charges, or pay. Bu&&er!

When DHL does that shakedown here,
the "handling" is more than the "duty".

You can't assume from the magnitude of the bill,
that all that money goes to your government.

You can assign your own customs broker in place
of the DHL one, by filling out some form. That's
unlikely to be all that much cheaper (just another
pirate trap, yarrh).

The best we can do here, is send items via the
postal system, where the brokerage charge is
more reasonable. Of course, most sellers
absolutely refuse to use post, because where is
the fun in not gouging consumers.

Yeah, just bought the audew 2000A jump starter
and couldnt find anyone who would post it. The
Fedex charge is half the cost of the jump starter.

On Thursday, 13 May 2021 at 17:22:12 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

The Chinese, as usual, are ahead of the game, they charge the VAT on
ordering, which they are then supposed to send to the UK Goverment???
Only for "low value" orders, if it was over £135 it'd be charged the
same way that the czech seller did.

Absolutely correct.

Anything over £135 is treated as a business transaction and liable for duty (if applicable). Whereas below £135 it is treated as retail and ignored for duty.

EU is also moving to charge VAT at the rate due in the country to which goods are delivered. Not sure if they have yet done so.

polygonum_on_google wrote:

EU is also moving to charge VAT at the rate due in the country to which goods are delivered. Not sure if they have yet done so.

The EU was due to bring in their VAT reforms in January, but delayed it
to July due to covid, the UK stuck with January due to brexit.

On 13/05/2021 21:25, Clive Page wrote:
On 13/05/2021 16:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
AFAICR that is how it was, despite variable VAT rates between EU
nations (there were no fuel stations in Luxembourg last time I drove
through it - everyone drove into Belgium, to fill up)

Every time I drive through Luxembourg I fill up the car - petrol there
is easily the cheapest in any of the European countries that I know of
even in a motorway service station.Â* A very easy one to find on the
motorway a km or two before the Belgian border when heading west.Â* We
can usually get back to the UK on a full tank.Â* It's a couple of years
since we were last there but I'd be surprised if relative prices have
changed that much.

Perhaps I misremember it and it was in fact the other way around. It's
been over 15 years...

--
"What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
"I don't."
"Don't what?"
"Think about Gay Marriage."

One might have expected that the seller would have added the tax to the bill
as that is how vat etc is supposed to work.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
wrote in message
...
Recently, I ordered something (costing about £700) from the Czech republic
and have just been sent a demand for £143 duty and handling from DHL. My
choices are to refuse the shipment, which means I get refunded less
shipping charges, or pay. Bu&&er!

On Friday, 14 May 2021 at 09:32:15 UTC+1, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
One might have expected that the seller would have added the tax to the bill
as that is how vat etc is supposed to work.
Brian

If you sold or even made a present of one of your possessions to someone in another country, would you know what the proper procedures are for that country? And how would you charge VAT - if it were applicable?

The under-£135 rules that the vendor charges VAT at the destination country's rate - and remit that VAT to HMRC if sending to the UK, can only work smoothly if the vendor is registered in the destination country. Which is why so many will no longer send things to the UK. The cost and effort of registering and making sure your procedures are properly implemented is a significant overhead.

In general, big companies can do this. Shopping gateways like Etsy can do this. But one-man-or-woman-and-a-dog outfits really can't. Hence, if they did send something, it would be assessed and VAT charged as it goes through Customs. With the attendant extra costs.

Brian Gaff wrote:

One might have expected that the seller would have added the tax to the bill
as that is how vat etc is supposed to work.

not any more, or at least not in all cases.

On 13/05/2021 19:05, Tim Streater wrote:
On 13 May 2021 at 16:42:41 BST, nightjar wrote:

On 13/05/2021 16:03, Fredxx wrote:
On 13/05/2021 15:24, nightjar wrote:
On 13/05/2021 14:05, wrote:
Recently, I ordered something (costing about £700) from the Czech
republic and have just been sent a demand for £143 duty and handling
from DHL. My choices are to refuse the shipment, which means I get
refunded less shipping charges, or pay. Bu&&er!

One of the consequences of Brexit.

The consequence is you pay UK VAT and not Czech VAT.

In addition, like the OP, you also get a bill for customs duty, which
was not something you needed to pay wile we were part of the Customs Union.

Indeed, we just paid it in bulk instead. £350 million per second, or century,
or something, wasn't it? Which included the markup to pay for all those other
nations with their snouts in the EU trough.


Totally unrelated. Customs duty is a levy HM government makes on us for
buying from abroad. While we were still in the Customs Union, the EU did
not count as abroad for the purposes of duty.

--
Colin Bignell

In article ,
Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) wrote:
One might have expected that the seller would have added the tax to the
bill as that is how vat etc is supposed to work.
Brian

I buy quite a bit from the US. From a mid sized company. They don't.

--
*Why are a wise man and a wise guy opposites?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Friday, 14 May 2021 at 10:59:52 UTC+1, nightjar wrote:
On 13/05/2021 19:05, Tim Streater wrote:
On 13 May 2021 at 16:42:41 BST, nightjar wrote:

On 13/05/2021 16:03, Fredxx wrote:
On 13/05/2021 15:24, nightjar wrote:
On 13/05/2021 14:05, wrote:
Recently, I ordered something (costing about £700) from the Czech
republic and have just been sent a demand for £143 duty and handling
from DHL. My choices are to refuse the shipment, which means I get
refunded less shipping charges, or pay. Bu&&er!

One of the consequences of Brexit.

The consequence is you pay UK VAT and not Czech VAT.

In addition, like the OP, you also get a bill for customs duty, which
was not something you needed to pay wile we were part of the Customs Union.

Indeed, we just paid it in bulk instead. £350 million per second, or century,
or something, wasn't it? Which included the markup to pay for all those other
nations with their snouts in the EU trough.


Totally unrelated. Customs duty is a levy HM government makes on us for
buying from abroad. While we were still in the Customs Union, the EU did
not count as abroad for the purposes of duty.

What is more, the decision as to classification of goods as to whether they are subject to duty, and the rate, can be complex.

One classic is that the sources of ingredients can switch an otherwise identical product from one class to another. So you might have to know details which are beyond what any ordinary customer would ever know.

Dave Plowman wrote:

Brian Gaff wrote:

One might have expected that the seller would have added the tax to the
bill as that is how vat etc is supposed to work.

I buy quite a bit from the US. From a mid sized company. They don't.

I recently bought some second-hand items from a US seller, it was the
first time I'd used eBay's 'Global Shipping Programme", I have to say it
worked quite well.

The person posted the items via USPS to an eBay centre.

Then eBay opened, checked and re-packed the item, calculating VAT and
duty (actually just confirming the amounts at time of auction were
correct) charged an additional postage amount.

Handed it over to Pitney Bowes for export.

In the UK it was handed over to Hermes, all confirmed as nothing to pay
here and delivered as usual.

It was trackable from end-to-end like any delivery, through a "meta"
tracking number.

All-in-all $90 for the items became $131, but that was all paid as the
winning bid on the item.