"Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" wrote:
One might have expected that the seller would have added the tax to the bill
as that is how vat etc is supposed to work.

Only for items less than £135.

--
Chris Green
·

On 14/05/2021 10:59, nightjar wrote:
On 13/05/2021 19:05, Tim Streater wrote:
On 13 May 2021 at 16:42:41 BST, nightjar wrote:

On 13/05/2021 16:03, Fredxx wrote:
Â* On 13/05/2021 15:24, nightjar wrote:
Â* On 13/05/2021 14:05, wrote:
Â* Recently, I ordered something (costing about £700) from the Czech
Â* republic and have just been sent a demand for £143 duty and
handling
Â* from DHL. My choices are to refuse the shipment, which means I get
Â* refunded less shipping charges, or pay. Bu&&er!

Â* One of the consequences of Brexit.
Â* The consequence is you pay UK VAT and not Czech VAT.

In addition, like the OP, you also get a bill for customs duty, which
was not something you needed to pay wile we were part of the Customs
Union.

Indeed, we just paid it in bulk instead. £350 million per second, or
century,
or something, wasn't it? Which included the markup to pay for all
those other
nations with their snouts in the EU trough.


Totally unrelated. Customs duty is a levy HM government makes on us for
buying from abroad. While we were still in the Customs Union, the EU did
not count as abroad for the purposes of duty.

Where local or other VAT was chargeable.

At least customs duty now goes to the UK Treasury for items imported
into the UK. Before Brexit any customs duty went straight to Brussels,
apart from a small admin fee.

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

Brian Gaff wrote:

One might have expected that the seller would have added the tax to the
bill as that is how vat etc is supposed to work.

I buy quite a bit from the US. From a mid sized company. They don't.

I recently bought some second-hand items from a US seller, it was the
first time I'd used eBay's 'Global Shipping Programme", I have to say it
worked quite well.

The person posted the items via USPS to an eBay centre.

Then eBay opened, checked and re-packed the item, calculating VAT and
duty (actually just confirming the amounts at time of auction were
correct) charged an additional postage amount.

Handed it over to Pitney Bowes for export.

In the UK it was handed over to Hermes, all confirmed as nothing to pay
here and delivered as usual.

It was trackable from end-to-end like any delivery, through a "meta"
tracking number.

All-in-all $90 for the items became $131, but that was all paid as the
winning bid on the item.

It's usually MegaSquirts I buy from the US. Commonly cost $450 before
carriage, etc. Reason being I like to self assemble, and UK suppliers only
do ready mades, and not the spec I'm after.

As well as silly postage costs, I end up paying duty, VAT and handling
charges.

If I were doing it in a big way, I'm sure I could save money.

--
*A closed mouth gathers no feet.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 14/05/2021 13:07, Fredxx wrote:
On 14/05/2021 10:59, nightjar wrote:
On 13/05/2021 19:05, Tim Streater wrote:
On 13 May 2021 at 16:42:41 BST, nightjar wrote:

On 13/05/2021 16:03, Fredxx wrote:
Â* On 13/05/2021 15:24, nightjar wrote:
Â* On 13/05/2021 14:05, wrote:
Â* Recently, I ordered something (costing about £700) from the Czech
Â* republic and have just been sent a demand for £143 duty and
handling
Â* from DHL. My choices are to refuse the shipment, which means I get
Â* refunded less shipping charges, or pay. Bu&&er!

Â* One of the consequences of Brexit.
Â* The consequence is you pay UK VAT and not Czech VAT.

In addition, like the OP, you also get a bill for customs duty, which
was not something you needed to pay wile we were part of the Customs
Union.

Indeed, we just paid it in bulk instead. £350 million per second, or
century,
or something, wasn't it? Which included the markup to pay for all
those other
nations with their snouts in the EU trough.


Totally unrelated. Customs duty is a levy HM government makes on us
for buying from abroad. While we were still in the Customs Union, the
EU did not count as abroad for the purposes of duty.

Where local or other VAT was chargeable.

At least customs duty now goes to the UK Treasury for items imported
into the UK. Before Brexit any customs duty went straight to Brussels,
apart from a small admin fee.

Before Brexit, we were in a Customs Union with the EU, which meant there
was no customs duty charged by anybody on sales within the EU. It is an
entirely new cost for imports from the EU; a direct result of Brexit and
quite separate from VAT. UK VAT is still payable on the imports.

--
Colin Bignell

On 14/05/2021 04:58 pm, nightjar wrote:
On 14/05/2021 13:07, Fredxx wrote:
On 14/05/2021 10:59, nightjar wrote:
On 13/05/2021 19:05, Tim Streater wrote:
On 13 May 2021 at 16:42:41 BST, nightjar wrote:

On 13/05/2021 16:03, Fredxx wrote:
Â* On 13/05/2021 15:24, nightjar wrote:
Â* On 13/05/2021 14:05, wrote:
Â* Recently, I ordered something (costing about £700) from the Czech
Â* republic and have just been sent a demand for £143 duty and
handling
Â* from DHL. My choices are to refuse the shipment, which means I
get
Â* refunded less shipping charges, or pay. Bu&&er!

Â* One of the consequences of Brexit.
Â* The consequence is you pay UK VAT and not Czech VAT.

In addition, like the OP, you also get a bill for customs duty, which
was not something you needed to pay wile we were part of the
Customs Union.

Indeed, we just paid it in bulk instead. £350 million per second, or
century,
or something, wasn't it? Which included the markup to pay for all
those other
nations with their snouts in the EU trough.


Totally unrelated. Customs duty is a levy HM government makes on us
for buying from abroad. While we were still in the Customs Union, the
EU did not count as abroad for the purposes of duty.

Where local or other VAT was chargeable.

At least customs duty now goes to the UK Treasury for items imported
into the UK. Before Brexit any customs duty went straight to Brussels,
apart from a small admin fee.

Before Brexit, we were in a Customs Union with the EU, which meant there
was no customs duty charged by anybody on sales within the EU. It is an
entirely new cost for imports from the EU; a direct result of Brexit and
quite separate from VAT. UK VAT is still payable on the imports.

The agreement provides for zero tariffs (import duties) both ways. The
relevant liabilities should be limited to shipping, VAT and the charge
(if any) for collection of the VAT.

That's for orders worth more than £135, which are sold VAT-free to the
UK customer by the EU-based retailer or supplier (so VAT is charged only
once).

On 14/05/2021 09:25, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Perhaps I misremember it and it was in fact the other way around. It's
been over 15 years...


The last time I was there I noticed a three mile long queue of lorries
on the motorway inside lane waiting to get petrol in Luxembourg rather
than Belgium.

When I got to northern Italy all the streets leading to the border with
Switzerland had at least two petrol stations to service the Swiss in
search of cheap fuel. The border posts didn't seem to care.

Another Dave
--
Change nospam to techie

On 14/05/2021 05:20 pm, Another Dave wrote:
On 14/05/2021 09:25, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Perhaps I misremember it and it was in fact the other way around. It's
been over 15 years...


The last time I was there I noticed a three mile long queue of lorries
on the motorway inside lane waiting to get petrol in Luxembourg rather
than Belgium.

When I got to northern Italy all the streets leading to the border with
Switzerland had at least two petrol stations to service the Swiss in
search of cheap fuel. The border posts didn't seem to care.

Another Dave

Fuel is cheaper in Switzerland than it is in Italy, hence the queues to
fill up in Chiasso.

On 14/05/2021 17:14, JNugent wrote:
....
The agreement provides for zero tariffs (import duties) both ways. The
relevant liabilities should be limited to shipping, VAT and the charge
(if any) for collection of the VAT.

That's for orders worth more than £135, which are sold VAT-free to the
UK customer by the EU-based retailer or supplier (so VAT is charged only
once).

I think you are reading the provisions for Northern Ireland, which is
the only part of the UK that has duty free trade with the EU. The
government web site clearly states that, for the rest of the UK, any
imports over £135 (except gifts) are liable to the payment of duty.

https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty

--
Colin Bignell

On 15/05/2021 10:10 am, nightjar wrote:
On 14/05/2021 17:14, JNugent wrote:
...
The agreement provides for zero tariffs (import duties) both ways. The
relevant liabilities should be limited to shipping, VAT and the charge
(if any) for collection of the VAT.

That's for orders worth more than £135, which are sold VAT-free to the
UK customer by the EU-based retailer or supplier (so VAT is charged
only once).

I think you are reading the provisions for Northern Ireland, which is
the only part of the UK that has duty free trade with the EU. The
government web site clearly states that, for the rest of the UK, any
imports over £135 (except gifts) are liable to the payment of duty.

https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty

I was thinking more of this, on trade between the UK (all of it) and the EU:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/eu-business-taxes-and-tariffs#:~:text=The%20EU%20and%20UK%20Trade,the%20 relevant%20rules%20of%20origin.

On 18/05/2021 15:16, JNugent wrote:
On 15/05/2021 10:10 am, nightjar wrote:
On 14/05/2021 17:14, JNugent wrote:
...
The agreement provides for zero tariffs (import duties) both ways.
The relevant liabilities should be limited to shipping, VAT and the
charge (if any) for collection of the VAT.

That's for orders worth more than £135, which are sold VAT-free to
the UK customer by the EU-based retailer or supplier (so VAT is
charged only once).

I think you are reading the provisions for Northern Ireland, which is
the only part of the UK that has duty free trade with the EU. The
government web site clearly states that, for the rest of the UK, any
imports over £135 (except gifts) are liable to the payment of duty.

https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty

I was thinking more of this, on trade between the UK (all of it) and the
EU:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/eu-business-taxes-and-tariffs#:~:text=The%20EU%20and%20UK%20Trade,the%20 relevant%20rules%20of%20origin.


That says that some goods, under specific circumstances, will not
attract tariffs. The agreement was withdrawn on 30 April 2021, although
some provisions are continued in other legislation.

Reading the summary, the main purpose of that clause appears to be to
cover the case, quite common in the motor industry among others, of
parts travelling backwards and forwards for processing and assembly in
different countries. Without that provision, they would attract duty
charges every time they crossed the border, in either direction. It does
not appear to apply in a wider sense to purchases from the EU.

--
Colin Bignell

On 19/05/2021 10:35 am, nightjar wrote:
On 18/05/2021 15:16, JNugent wrote:
On 15/05/2021 10:10 am, nightjar wrote:
On 14/05/2021 17:14, JNugent wrote:
...
The agreement provides for zero tariffs (import duties) both ways.
The relevant liabilities should be limited to shipping, VAT and the
charge (if any) for collection of the VAT.

That's for orders worth more than £135, which are sold VAT-free to
the UK customer by the EU-based retailer or supplier (so VAT is
charged only once).

I think you are reading the provisions for Northern Ireland, which is
the only part of the UK that has duty free trade with the EU. The
government web site clearly states that, for the rest of the UK, any
imports over £135 (except gifts) are liable to the payment of duty.

https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty

I was thinking more of this, on trade between the UK (all of it) and
the EU:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/eu-business-taxes-and-tariffs#:~:text=The%20EU%20and%20UK%20Trade,the%20 relevant%20rules%20of%20origin.


That says that some goods, under specific circumstances, will not
attract tariffs. The agreement was withdrawn on 30 April 2021, although
some provisions are continued in other legislation.

Reading the summary, the main purpose of that clause appears to be to
cover the case, quite common in the motor industry among others, of
parts travelling backwards and forwards for processing and assembly in
different countries. Without that provision, they would attract duty
charges every time they crossed the border, in either direction. It does
not appear to apply in a wider sense to purchases from the EU.

That doesn't appear to be what it says.

QUOTE:
Import tariffs

From 1 January 2021, the UK Global Tariff applies to all goods imported
into the UK unless an exception applies, such as a trade agreement with
the UK.

Find out more about the UK Global Tariff.

The EU and UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement establishes zero tariffs
or quotas on trade between the UK and the EU, where goods meet the
relevant rules of origin.
ENDQUOTE

On 19/05/2021 10:49, JNugent wrote:
On 19/05/2021 10:35 am, nightjar wrote:
On 18/05/2021 15:16, JNugent wrote:
On 15/05/2021 10:10 am, nightjar wrote:
On 14/05/2021 17:14, JNugent wrote:
...
The agreement provides for zero tariffs (import duties) both ways.
The relevant liabilities should be limited to shipping, VAT and the
charge (if any) for collection of the VAT.

That's for orders worth more than £135, which are sold VAT-free to
the UK customer by the EU-based retailer or supplier (so VAT is
charged only once).

I think you are reading the provisions for Northern Ireland, which
is the only part of the UK that has duty free trade with the EU. The
government web site clearly states that, for the rest of the UK, any
imports over £135 (except gifts) are liable to the payment of duty.

https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty

I was thinking more of this, on trade between the UK (all of it) and
the EU:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/eu-business-taxes-and-tariffs#:~:text=The%20EU%20and%20UK%20Trade,the%20 relevant%20rules%20of%20origin.


That says that some goods, under specific circumstances, will not
attract tariffs. The agreement was withdrawn on 30 April 2021,
although some provisions are continued in other legislation.

Reading the summary, the main purpose of that clause appears to be to
cover the case, quite common in the motor industry among others, of
parts travelling backwards and forwards for processing and assembly in
different countries. Without that provision, they would attract duty
charges every time they crossed the border, in either direction. It
does not appear to apply in a wider sense to purchases from the EU.

That doesn't appear to be what it says.

QUOTE:
Import tariffs

From 1 January 2021, the UK Global Tariff applies to all goods imported
into the UK unless an exception applies, such as a trade agreement with
the UK.

Find out more about the UK Global Tariff.

The EU and UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement establishes zero tariffs
or quotas on trade between the UK and the EU, where goods meet the
relevant rules of origin.
ENDQUOTE

From the link to The EU and UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement

QUOTE

This international treaty was withdrawn on 30 April 2021

ENDQUOTE

The legislation covering trade with the EU is now The European Union
(Future Relationship) Act 2020, which does not seem to continue that
particular part of the Agreement.



--
Colin Bignell

On 19/05/2021 04:41 pm, nightjar wrote:
On 19/05/2021 10:49, JNugent wrote:
On 19/05/2021 10:35 am, nightjar wrote:
On 18/05/2021 15:16, JNugent wrote:
On 15/05/2021 10:10 am, nightjar wrote:
On 14/05/2021 17:14, JNugent wrote:
...
The agreement provides for zero tariffs (import duties) both ways.
The relevant liabilities should be limited to shipping, VAT and
the charge (if any) for collection of the VAT.

That's for orders worth more than £135, which are sold VAT-free to
the UK customer by the EU-based retailer or supplier (so VAT is
charged only once).

I think you are reading the provisions for Northern Ireland, which
is the only part of the UK that has duty free trade with the EU.
The government web site clearly states that, for the rest of the
UK, any imports over £135 (except gifts) are liable to the payment
of duty.

https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty

I was thinking more of this, on trade between the UK (all of it) and
the EU:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/eu-business-taxes-and-tariffs#:~:text=The%20EU%20and%20UK%20Trade,the%20 relevant%20rules%20of%20origin.


That says that some goods, under specific circumstances, will not
attract tariffs. The agreement was withdrawn on 30 April 2021,
although some provisions are continued in other legislation.

Reading the summary, the main purpose of that clause appears to be to
cover the case, quite common in the motor industry among others, of
parts travelling backwards and forwards for processing and assembly
in different countries. Without that provision, they would attract
duty charges every time they crossed the border, in either direction.
It does not appear to apply in a wider sense to purchases from the EU.

That doesn't appear to be what it says.

QUOTE:
Import tariffs

Â*From 1 January 2021, the UK Global Tariff applies to all goods
imported into the UK unless an exception applies, such as a trade
agreement with the UK.

Find out more about the UK Global Tariff.

The EU and UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement establishes zero tariffs
or quotas on trade between the UK and the EU, where goods meet the
relevant rules of origin.
ENDQUOTE

From the link to The EU and UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement

QUOTE

This international treaty was withdrawn on 30 April 2021

ENDQUOTE

The legislation covering trade with the EU is now The European Union
(Future Relationship) Act 2020, which does not seem to continue that
particular part of the Agreement.

What, part of the Agreement (whichever Agreement it was), and a
crucially important part of it at that, covering the very basic issue of
whether there are tariffs on sales between the parties' territories, has
simply been repealed without ceremony?

What, part of the Agreement (whichever Agreement it was), and a
crucially important part of it at that, covering the very basic issue of
whether there are tariffs on sales between the parties' territories, has
simply been repealed without ceremony?

repealed and replaced

"it has undergone a final process of legal revision in accordance with
Article FINPROV.9 (now Article 780), and the version published below
represents the version agreed in December, prior to this process. The
substance of the Agreement has not changed; however, typographical and
other errors have been corrected and the Articles have been renumbered
from Article 1 €“ 783"

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ukeu-and-eaec-trade-and-cooperation-agreement-ts-no82021

On 21/05/2021 09:42 am, Andy Burns wrote:

What, part of the Agreement (whichever Agreement it was), and a
crucially important part of it at that, covering the very basic issue
of whether there are tariffs on sales between the parties'
territories, has simply been repealed without ceremony?

repealed and replaced

"it has undergone a final process of legal revision in accordance with
Article FINPROV.9 (now Article 780), and the version published below
represents the version agreed in December, prior to this process. The
substance of the Agreement has not changed; however, typographical and
other errors have been corrected and the Articles have been renumbered
from Article 1 €“ 783"

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ukeu-and-eaec-trade-and-cooperation-agreement-ts-no82021

It's a long document. Could you direct me to the part that provides for
customs duty / tariffs on trade between Great Britain and the EU and the
part that provides the opposite for Northern Ireland, please?

JNugent wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ukeu-and-eaec-trade-and-cooperation-agreement-ts-no82021

It's a long document. Could you direct me to the part that provides for
customs duty / tariffs on trade between Great Britain and the EU and the
part that provides the opposite for Northern Ireland, please?

NDYOHW!

On 21/05/2021 12:17 pm, Andy Burns wrote:

JNugent wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ukeu-and-eaec-trade-and-cooperation-agreement-ts-no82021

It's a long document. Could you direct me to the part that provides
for customs duty / tariffs on trade between Great Britain and the EU
and the part that provides the opposite for Northern Ireland, please?

NDYOHW!

Fair enough.

The only reasonable conclusion from that is that it isn't there. But
being as reasonable as possible, it would be a bit of a surprise if the
central provision of a trade agreement had been directly negated simply
by a consolidating document.

On 21/05/2021 16:37, JNugent wrote:
On 21/05/2021 12:17 pm, Andy Burns wrote:

JNugent wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ukeu-and-eaec-trade-and-cooperation-agreement-ts-no82021


It's a long document. Could you direct me to the part that provides
for customs duty / tariffs on trade between Great Britain and the EU
and the part that provides the opposite for Northern Ireland, please?

NDYOHW!

Fair enough.

The only reasonable conclusion from that is that it isn't there. But
being as reasonable as possible, it would be a bit of a surprise if the
central provision of a trade agreement had been directly negated simply
by a consolidating document.


I think the point is that The EU and UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement
was only an interim agreement, to meet the PM's Brexit deadline. It
therefore may not reflect the government's long term intentions.

--
Colin Bignell

On 21/05/2021 04:52 pm, nightjar wrote:
On 21/05/2021 16:37, JNugent wrote:
On 21/05/2021 12:17 pm, Andy Burns wrote:

JNugent wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ukeu-and-eaec-trade-and-cooperation-agreement-ts-no82021



It's a long document. Could you direct me to the part that provides
for customs duty / tariffs on trade between Great Britain and the EU
and the part that provides the opposite for Northern Ireland, please?

NDYOHW!

Fair enough.

The only reasonable conclusion from that is that it isn't there. But
being as reasonable as possible, it would be a bit of a surprise if
the central provision of a trade agreement had been directly negated
simply by a consolidating document.


I think the point is that The EU and UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement
was only an interim agreement, to meet the PM's Brexit deadline. It
therefore may not reflect the government's long term intentions.

It's easily settled - by someone pointing to the part of the
consolidated document which imposes customs duty on imports / exports to
/ from the EU and GB.

On 22/05/2021 00:27, JNugent wrote:
On 21/05/2021 04:52 pm, nightjar wrote:
On 21/05/2021 16:37, JNugent wrote:
On 21/05/2021 12:17 pm, Andy Burns wrote:

JNugent wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ukeu-and-eaec-trade-and-cooperation-agreement-ts-no82021




It's a long document. Could you direct me to the part that provides
for customs duty / tariffs on trade between Great Britain and the
EU and the part that provides the opposite for Northern Ireland,
please?

NDYOHW!

Fair enough.

The only reasonable conclusion from that is that it isn't there. But
being as reasonable as possible, it would be a bit of a surprise if
the central provision of a trade agreement had been directly negated
simply by a consolidating document.


I think the point is that The EU and UK Trade and Cooperation
Agreement was only an interim agreement, to meet the PM's Brexit
deadline. It therefore may not reflect the government's long term
intentions.

It's easily settled - by someone pointing to the part of the
consolidated document which imposes customs duty on imports / exports to
/ from the EU and GB.

Easier said than done. The legislation allows the creation of secondary
legislation to do such things. So finding the relevant legislation would
involve trawling through the Regulations made under the Act.

To avoid the need for everybody to do that, the government gives this
summary of the requirements as they stand now:

https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty

--
Colin Bignell