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  #41   Report Post  
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Default Can we agree...

On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 03:39:39 -0700 (PDT), Tricky Dicky
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 27, 2021 at 10:55:32 AM UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 01:56:16 -0700 (PDT), Tricky Dicky
wrote:

snip
Regrettably Tim seems to have become the new Harry on this newsgroup.

How so? Harry used to go on about things that advantaged him, what
(direct) advantage is it to me if I ask people to consider aligning
their actions with their morals (unless your morals dictate that you
think it's ok to do anything you like to any animal)?

Everything I've stated is supported by both millions of other people
and all the science so what's your issue, other than your own
ignorance or selfishness of course?

Cheers, T i m


Oh dear, oh dear! There was I thinking I had posted a semi-supportive comment,


'Semi-supportive', linking me to someone I assumed you were
referencing because of the negative connotations (it can be read
either way). And this is as seen in an environment where the chances
are those who support the concept of veganism aren't likely to say so,
because of the toxicity of the carnists / trolls, so it's more common
to be attacked than supported.

quoting the final paragraph of Johns post,


Someone whom I respect in general but who has a very different
viewpoint on veganism etc?

using the word regrettably


Regrettably. ;-).

and now I am ignorant or selfish simply for pointing out how you have become the target of much of the vitriol that Harry was subject to.


Not so. There I was referring to peoples understanding / attitude
towards animals (and not even yours specifically as I don't know them,
just going by current stats etc). See, IDGAF what people think of me
for raising awareness of the animal suffering etc as long as they
stick to the facts and are honest about themselves.


A not very cheerful
Richard


Sorry if you thought you were being 'supportive' and if I took it the
wrong way.

Cheers, T i m
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On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 04:05:19 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Tuesday, 27 April 2021 at 10:55:32 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 01:56:16 -0700 (PDT), Tricky Dicky
wrote:

snip
Regrettably Tim seems to have become the new Harry on this newsgroup.

How so? Harry used to go on about things that advantaged him, what
(direct) advantage is it to me if I ask people to consider aligning
their actions with their morals (unless your morals dictate that you
think it's ok to do anything you like to any animal)?


You've been supporting the idea of staying in the EU which supports the transporation of
animals for slaugter between countries and overseas.


Oh are you still here sigh

No, I 'wasn't in support of staying in the EU'. How could I have been
when I spoiled my paper rather than voting Leave?

so snip irrelevancies

Everything I've stated is supported by both millions of other people


You mean the 74 million Trump supporters that's more than the number of UK voters
that voted to leave and join the EU and yet you think the 25K odd spoilt papers are the key
inteligent people without even know how or why the spoilt their papers.


Nope. You are doing your crazy rambling thing again.

We know some placed marks outside the box some voted for more than one option.


Well done?

But seem to think these peolpe are the most inteligent and want change.


Who does?

and all the science so what's your issue, other than your own
ignorance or selfishness of course?


Well, surley science is logic, maths , fact


It is?

snip rambling

Just to save you some time, I'll not bother replying to you again till
you get back on the meds. ;-)

Cheers, T i m
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Default Can we agree...

On 27/04/2021 10:55, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 01:56:16 -0700 (PDT), Tricky Dicky
wrote:

snip

Regrettably Tim seems to have become the new Harry on this newsgroup.


How so? Harry used to go on about things that advantaged him, what


There was a time where that was true - in the early days at least -
super insulated homes, Feed in Tariffs etc. Some of that was at least
vaguely related to house maintenance and improvement - even if there was
an element of "look what I have managed to screw out of the system".

Over time however the bulk of his commentary moved to posting links to
his own personal pet agenda to cast all Muslims and all those of middle
eastern origin as child molesters or terrorists. That was not a
discussion or chat or banter or even an argument, just a never ending
diatribe.

(direct) advantage is it to me if I ask people to consider aligning
their actions with their morals (unless your morals dictate that you
think it's ok to do anything you like to any animal)?

Everything I've stated is supported by both millions of other people
and all the science so what's your issue, other than your own
ignorance or selfishness of course?


The issue I expect for many is that you have made your point many many
times now, in threads ostensibly about other things. Many people have
given you their considered responses, and now feel its time to move on.

I appreciate that not seeing others experiencing a "road to Damascus"
conversion similar to your own might be disappointing, but that does not
mean that we failed to give consideration to your point or did not hear
your message. Just that in some cases have formed a different opinions.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
  #44   Report Post  
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Default Can we agree...

On Tuesday, 27 April 2021 at 13:01:09 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 04:05:19 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Tuesday, 27 April 2021 at 10:55:32 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 01:56:16 -0700 (PDT), Tricky Dicky
wrote:

snip
Regrettably Tim seems to have become the new Harry on this newsgroup.
How so? Harry used to go on about things that advantaged him, what
(direct) advantage is it to me if I ask people to consider aligning
their actions with their morals (unless your morals dictate that you
think it's ok to do anything you like to any animal)?


You've been supporting the idea of staying in the EU which supports the transporation of
animals for slaugter between countries and overseas.

Oh are you still here sigh


Yep, its called lunchtime at work.
Yopu still prattling on with just half a brain in use.


No, I 'wasn't in support of staying in the EU'. How could I have been
when I spoiled my paper rather than voting Leave?


So why were you complining about the result and that it should been a majority
(whatever you meant by that)

So on a referendum where the options are
I want to remain in the EU
I want to leave the EU.


Did you draw a penis or write NOTA or NOTB
did you wipe your arse on the paper
did you make any markings in or out of the boxes ?
And how do any of the above describe what you wanted to happen ?

So be honsest for once what did you put on your paper.

I do wonder what those 25K spoilt papers looked like,
what was put on them and why.


so snip irrelevancies
Everything I've stated is supported by both millions of other people


You mean the 74 million Trump supporters that's more than the number of UK voters
that voted to leave and join the EU and yet you think the 25K odd spoilt papers are the key
inteligent people without even know how or why the spoilt their papers.

Nope. You are doing your crazy rambling thing again.


Its basic logic question, you think if millions of people support something then that makes it correct don't you.
Otherwise why say "I've stated is supported by both millions of other people"
What exactly is by both millions of people anyway ?



We know some placed marks outside the box some voted for more than one option.

Well done?
But seem to think these peolpe are the most inteligent and want change.

Who does?


It's a spoilt paper isn't that what so called inteligent people do in order to indicate their views
in a referdum or ballot


and all the science so what's your issue, other than your own
ignorance or selfishness of course?


Well, surley science is logic, maths , fact

It is?


Yes , not that I expect you to know.


snip rambling

Just to save you some time, I'll not bother replying to you again till
you get back on the meds. ;-)


I don't need meds its you that has to take supliments to your diet.




Cheers, T i m

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Default Can we agree...

On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 13:19:07 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

On 27/04/2021 10:55, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 01:56:16 -0700 (PDT), Tricky Dicky
wrote:

snip

Regrettably Tim seems to have become the new Harry on this newsgroup.


How so? Harry used to go on about things that advantaged him, what


There was a time where that was true - in the early days at least -
super insulated homes, Feed in Tariffs etc. Some of that was at least
vaguely related to house maintenance and improvement - even if there was
an element of "look what I have managed to screw out of the system".


Yes, that's what I was remembering ...

Over time however the bulk of his commentary moved to posting links to
his own personal pet agenda to cast all Muslims and all those of middle
eastern origin as child molesters or terrorists. That was not a
discussion or chat or banter or even an argument, just a never ending
diatribe.


Ah yes, I'd forgotten about that, thanks. Unfortunately, that makes
any reference to him and I being similar even worse, as he was
attacking innocent people and I'm trying to protect innocent
creatures?

(direct) advantage is it to me if I ask people to consider aligning
their actions with their morals (unless your morals dictate that you
think it's ok to do anything you like to any animal)?

Everything I've stated is supported by both millions of other people
and all the science so what's your issue, other than your own
ignorance or selfishness of course?


The issue I expect for many is that you have made your point many many
times now,


Most of the 'repetition' is in the vague hope that those who later
exposed themselves to be trolls were putting up genuine points.

in threads ostensibly about other things.


But the drift often started by other people.

Many people have
given you their considered responses, and now feel its time to move on.


Of course, any obviously they have every right to not read and
certainly not reply if it's something they have heard before.

However, there are people who may come and go and who may not have a
specific interest in say veganism but might be interested to learn
things that make someone become a vegan. We are actually talking about
things that cover a whole range of RW things that look to be likely to
affect all of us and in many, possibly not so obvious areas (like car
tyres or wood treatments).

I appreciate that not seeing others experiencing a "road to Damascus"
conversion


Isn't that a tautology John? ;-)

similar to your own might be disappointing,


It might if I expected that of anyone here, but I don't.

but that does not
mean that we failed to give consideration to your point or did not hear
your message.


Already accepted, just that not everyone seems to 'get it' *yet*, like
NT's questions about the existence of vegan chocolate!

Just that in some cases have formed a different opinions.


But have potentially formed them in ignorance (see above).

And the use of the term 'ignorance' isn't a slur on them as I was in a
similar position over a year ago, or more in my case that I was aware
but hadn't bothered looking closely (but / so was still 'ignorant' of
all the facts and options), cognitive dissonance etc.

The frustration doesn't come from the trolls (I quite like watching
them dig those holes so deep weg) or Ex(?) 'farmers' like Mr Lamb
(who I have previously broken bread with on more than one occasion and
who is also 'a nice guy') but maybe people like you, people I respect
and who in 'every other' area we have ever discussed, have shown me a
sensible, intelligent, knowledgeable logical and considerate person.

You have made your position clear (that you consider it 'ok' to
consume and use ('use' sounds less confrontational / provocative than
'exploit', even of not quite so accurate) animals for your own needs
and desires) ... and that you may be 'cutting down' or at least
putting more consideration into what meat you eat (and not even
because of anything I have said etc), but it's the former that still
leaves me confused (partly because of the latter).

Like, I can see how it might be difficult to explain / persuade
someone older (your parents) as it is my own Mum. She gives money to
the donkey sanctuary and helps rehabilitate dogs but serves us up
chicken when I have told her we are we aren't eating any meat. 'You
have been eating meat for 60 years' was her only explanation. Funnily
she doesn't try the same track with dairy because she knows I was
advise off that by the doctor so it's only my personal choice she has
an issue with and is confused about.

Daughter, her B/f and the step niece are all vegan, niece and hubby
are vegan and my sister and hubby and cutting out nearly all red meat
(mainly because of health scares so on medical advice).

Some of our friends also happen to be vegi / vegan, individually, just
him / her and not the kids or the whole family. It's also interesting
to see how many on TV are also vegan (or at least vegi). [1]

So, I would be interested to learn how much of your current position
is a function of others, if any (family / friends) or what it is that
would allow you to be logically inconsistent (as you don't seem to be
the sort of person who would hurt a cat or dog), especially for 'no
(good, by it's standards) reason'?

You have my email address if you prefer to answer that offline.

Cheers, T i m

[1[ You may have seen mention elsewhere recently where Bill Bailey was
on a TV cooking show and was offered duck and mentioned how that *now*
made him feel uneasy because he has two pet ducks. I think Jeremy Vine
was on something similar and reacted similarly, didn't want to eat it
when it still looked like the animal it once was. Aren't these just
more examples of cognitive dissonance?


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On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 12:43:54 +0100, Andrew
wrote:

On 26/04/2021 15:00, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 14:09:42 +0100, Andrew


Because it was a question in a discussion group ... and just to prove
you aren't just a biased harasser, I'm hoping you are going to also
harass those here you just use it as their blog, don't use OT or just
harass people ... oh ...


Bit rich coming from the person who canstantly harasses people
with fake videos of animal 'welfare issues'


DickHeadxx, that *is* you isn't it?

'Fake videos'? Cite (except you won't because) 1) you are lying and 2)
you don't have the balls to try, knowing you are lying.

Are we having fun yet?

Cheers, T i m

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On 27/04/2021 16:10, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 13:19:07 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

On 27/04/2021 10:55, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 01:56:16 -0700 (PDT), Tricky Dicky
wrote:

snip

Regrettably Tim seems to have become the new Harry on this newsgroup.

How so? Harry used to go on about things that advantaged him, what


There was a time where that was true - in the early days at least -
super insulated homes, Feed in Tariffs etc. Some of that was at least
vaguely related to house maintenance and improvement - even if there was
an element of "look what I have managed to screw out of the system".


Yes, that's what I was remembering ...

Over time however the bulk of his commentary moved to posting links to
his own personal pet agenda to cast all Muslims and all those of middle
eastern origin as child molesters or terrorists. That was not a
discussion or chat or banter or even an argument, just a never ending
diatribe.


Ah yes, I'd forgotten about that, thanks. Unfortunately, that makes
any reference to him and I being similar even worse, as he was
attacking innocent people and I'm trying to protect innocent
creatures?


You attack meat eaters and abuse them the same way Harry would abuse
those who didn't support his beliefs. If you don't like being the new
Harry then desist in abusing those who don't share your beliefs.

(direct) advantage is it to me if I ask people to consider aligning
their actions with their morals (unless your morals dictate that you
think it's ok to do anything you like to any animal)?

Everything I've stated is supported by both millions of other people
and all the science so what's your issue, other than your own
ignorance or selfishness of course?


The issue I expect for many is that you have made your point many many
times now,


Most of the 'repetition' is in the vague hope that those who later
exposed themselves to be trolls were putting up genuine points.


Repetition is to be expected from a fanatic.

in threads ostensibly about other things.


But the drift often started by other people.


Typically they don't.

Many people have
given you their considered responses, and now feel its time to move on.


Of course, any obviously they have every right to not read and
certainly not reply if it's something they have heard before.

However, there are people who may come and go and who may not have a
specific interest in say veganism but might be interested to learn
things that make someone become a vegan. We are actually talking about
things that cover a whole range of RW things that look to be likely to
affect all of us and in many, possibly not so obvious areas (like car
tyres or wood treatments).


I think we are now familiar if he principles behind veganism.
I appreciate that not seeing others experiencing a "road to Damascus"
conversion


Isn't that a tautology John? ;-)

similar to your own might be disappointing,


It might if I expected that of anyone here, but I don't.

but that does not
mean that we failed to give consideration to your point or did not hear
your message.


Already accepted, just that not everyone seems to 'get it' *yet*, like
NT's questions about the existence of vegan chocolate!

Just that in some cases have formed a different opinions.


But have potentially formed them in ignorance (see above).


That is denial that others have made a choice. It's only "ignorance" in
your eyes because you dislike their choice.

And the use of the term 'ignorance' isn't a slur on them as I was in a
similar position over a year ago, or more in my case that I was aware
but hadn't bothered looking closely (but / so was still 'ignorant' of
all the facts and options), cognitive dissonance etc.

The frustration doesn't come from the trolls (I quite like watching
them dig those holes so deep weg) or Ex(?) 'farmers' like Mr Lamb
(who I have previously broken bread with on more than one occasion and
who is also 'a nice guy') but maybe people like you, people I respect
and who in 'every other' area we have ever discussed, have shown me a
sensible, intelligent, knowledgeable logical and considerate person.

You have made your position clear (that you consider it 'ok' to
consume and use ('use' sounds less confrontational / provocative than
'exploit', even of not quite so accurate) animals for your own needs
and desires) ... and that you may be 'cutting down' or at least
putting more consideration into what meat you eat (and not even
because of anything I have said etc), but it's the former that still
leaves me confused (partly because of the latter).

Like, I can see how it might be difficult to explain / persuade
someone older (your parents) as it is my own Mum. She gives money to
the donkey sanctuary and helps rehabilitate dogs but serves us up
chicken when I have told her we are we aren't eating any meat. 'You
have been eating meat for 60 years' was her only explanation. Funnily
she doesn't try the same track with dairy because she knows I was
advise off that by the doctor so it's only my personal choice she has
an issue with and is confused about.

Daughter, her B/f and the step niece are all vegan, niece and hubby
are vegan and my sister and hubby and cutting out nearly all red meat
(mainly because of health scares so on medical advice).

Some of our friends also happen to be vegi / vegan, individually, just
him / her and not the kids or the whole family. It's also interesting
to see how many on TV are also vegan (or at least vegi). [1]

So, I would be interested to learn how much of your current position
is a function of others, if any (family / friends) or what it is that
would allow you to be logically inconsistent (as you don't seem to be
the sort of person who would hurt a cat or dog), especially for 'no
(good, by it's standards) reason'?

You have my email address if you prefer to answer that offline.


Lots of words, does this mean veganism will now be a closed subject for
this group? Life will be far more pleasant for all.

Cheers, T i m

[1[ You may have seen mention elsewhere recently where Bill Bailey was
on a TV cooking show and was offered duck and mentioned how that *now*
made him feel uneasy because he has two pet ducks. I think Jeremy Vine
was on something similar and reacted similarly, didn't want to eat it
when it still looked like the animal it once was. Aren't these just
more examples of cognitive dissonance?


But also temporary concerns. Once back in the saddle and all that. By
way of example you admit to cognitive dissonance in respect of keeping
and feeding pets.

  #48   Report Post  
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Posts: 40,893
Default Can we agree...



"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 27/04/2021 09:21, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , John Rumm
writes
On 26/04/2021 15:08, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 14:48:42 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

On 24/04/2021 18:35, Bev wrote:
...that T i m knows everything, is always correct in what he says and
that no amount of help and information will ever persuade him
otherwise.

That way we can all save time and effort in responding to his
requests
for information when he ignores it anyway as it does not fit with his
pre-
conceived ideas.

On the occasions that one can converse with him while he is not fully
"on message", it's quite possible to have a pleasant enough discussion
on a number of topics, and he will usually be helpful and generous
with
his skills and experience.
A bigger question might be (by comparison), what sort of contributions
has 'Bev' made to the group and how fairly are they dealing out the
victimisation?

Note sure if that is the bigger question, or just a case of shooting the
messenger?

There are plenty that lurk here and post infrequently, if at all. That
does not mean they are going to relish a relentless barrage of
proselytising any more than the rest of us. Be that a former poster's
incessant messages on "cultural enrichment", or a blow by blow posting
commentary from Mr speeds' vegetable peeler paramour!


There are lots of online tests for locating one's place on the Autistic
spectrum. Aspergers syndrome may be more relevant for those at the
intelligent end.


For those at the intelligent end they can learn empathy, effect and
result. A fanatic by definition is not going to be at the 'intelligent
end'.


Thats mindless bull****. There have in fact been
lots of intelligent fanatics like Pauling for example.

My results don't lead to a *seek help urgently* recommendation but
certainly not *middle of the road* normal:-)


I would put it in the 'recommended' area if only to show their campaign is
counterproductive.


  #49   Report Post  
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Posts: 1,591
Default Can we agree...

On 27/04/2021 20:15, Rod Speed wrote:


"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 27/04/2021 09:21, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , John
Rumm writes
On 26/04/2021 15:08, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 14:48:42 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

On 24/04/2021 18:35, Bev wrote:
...that T i m knows everything, is always correct in what he says
and
that no amount of help and information will ever persuade him
otherwise.

That way we can all save time and effort in responding to his
requests
for information when he ignores it anyway as it does not fit with
his pre-
conceived ideas.

On the occasions that one can converse with him while he is not fully
"on message", it's quite possible to have a pleasant enough
discussion
on a number of topics, and he will usually be helpful and generous
with
his skills and experience.
*A bigger question might be (by comparison), what sort of
contributions
has 'Bev' made to the group and how fairly are they dealing out the
victimisation?

Note sure if that is the bigger question, or just a case of shooting
the messenger?

There are plenty that lurk here and post infrequently, if at all.
That does not mean they are going to relish a relentless barrage of
proselytising any more than the rest of us. Be that a former
poster's incessant messages on "cultural enrichment", or a blow by
blow posting commentary from Mr speeds' vegetable peeler paramour!

There are lots of online tests for locating one's place on the
Autistic spectrum. Aspergers syndrome may be more relevant for those
at the intelligent end.


For those at the intelligent end they can learn empathy, effect and
result. A fanatic by definition is not going to be at the 'intelligent
end'.


Thats mindless bull****. There have in fact been
lots of intelligent fanatics like Pauling for example.


As soon as you say "mindless bull****" what you then say is discredited.

Anyway, even after looking up Linus Pauling nothing associates him with
being a fanatic.

My results don't lead to a *seek help urgently* recommendation but
certainly not *middle of the road* normal:-)


I would put it in the 'recommended' area if only to show their
campaign is counterproductive.


  #50   Report Post  
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Posts: 15,560
Default Troll-feeding Senile ASSHOLE Alert!

On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 20:24:06 +0100, Fredxx, the notorious, troll-feeding,
senile smartass, blathered again:


As soon as you say "mindless bull****" what you then say is discredited.


Nope, senile smartass, as soon as you start feeding the filthy troll, YOU
are discredited, about as much as the troll! You'd better believe it! BG


  #51   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 40,893
Default Can we agree...



"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 27/04/2021 20:15, Rod Speed wrote:


"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 27/04/2021 09:21, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , John
Rumm writes
On 26/04/2021 15:08, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 14:48:42 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

On 24/04/2021 18:35, Bev wrote:
...that T i m knows everything, is always correct in what he says
and
that no amount of help and information will ever persuade him
otherwise.

That way we can all save time and effort in responding to his
requests
for information when he ignores it anyway as it does not fit with
his pre-
conceived ideas.

On the occasions that one can converse with him while he is not
fully
"on message", it's quite possible to have a pleasant enough
discussion
on a number of topics, and he will usually be helpful and generous
with
his skills and experience.
A bigger question might be (by comparison), what sort of
contributions
has 'Bev' made to the group and how fairly are they dealing out the
victimisation?

Note sure if that is the bigger question, or just a case of shooting
the messenger?

There are plenty that lurk here and post infrequently, if at all. That
does not mean they are going to relish a relentless barrage of
proselytising any more than the rest of us. Be that a former poster's
incessant messages on "cultural enrichment", or a blow by blow posting
commentary from Mr speeds' vegetable peeler paramour!

There are lots of online tests for locating one's place on the Autistic
spectrum. Aspergers syndrome may be more relevant for those at the
intelligent end.

For those at the intelligent end they can learn empathy, effect and
result. A fanatic by definition is not going to be at the 'intelligent
end'.


Thats mindless bull****. There have in fact been
lots of intelligent fanatics like Pauling for example.


As soon as you say "mindless bull****" what you then say is discredited.


More of your typical mindless bull****.

Anyway, even after looking up Linus Pauling nothing associates him with
being a fanatic.


More of your mindless bull**** with his fanaticism about vitamin C.

Pity about all this fanaticism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus_Pauling#Activism

My results don't lead to a *seek help urgently* recommendation but
certainly not *middle of the road* normal:-)

I would put it in the 'recommended' area if only to show their campaign
is counterproductive.


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