Just noticed this thread on the AVFORUMS site.

https://www.avforums.com/threads/iss...erial.2352361/

I didn't know there was an 'omni-directional' freeview aerial.

read the thread and look at the photos.

The elderly neighbours have an external aerial on quite a high
external pole so they presumably cannot be in a strong signal
area.

On 16/04/2021 17:20, Andrew wrote:
Just noticed this thread on the AVFORUMS site.

https://www.avforums.com/threads/iss...erial.2352361/


I didn't know there was an 'omni-directional' freeview aerial.

read the thread and look at the photos.

The elderly neighbours have an external aerial on quite a high
external pole so they presumably cannot be in a strong signal
area.


Have a look at the manufacturer's page:

https://www.philex.com/products/prod...l-tv-aerial-2/

And in particular, try clicking the "specifications" and then, the "Call
Our Sales Department" or "Technical Support" links. That'll tell you
something.

Note the claims that it is

"High gain €“ suitable for weak signal areas"

and

"Receives all locally available digital TV signals"

and

"suitable for most signal strength areas"

OK OK, we get it !

Note that "according to Amazon, it is omnidirectional, then the high
gain refers to an amplifier? Hence the power supply

If it is omnidirectional why the triangular marker on the "dome"

How does it recognise the polarity?

Just sayin' !

As regards the neighbour, the implication is that he has marginal
reception ("but not 100%") anyway. I wonder if this is the curse of
recent channel changes ("their TV reception on certain channels has been
really poor") exacerbated by radiation from an amplified then amplified
again neighbour directly in the suffering neighbour's beam direction?

On the other hand, the supplied PSU may be radiating enough hash to tip
the balance for the neighbour.

Being a skinflint with a Group A aerial (weak signal from Crystal
Palace) I've had to tweak the big beam in all three dimensions to
receive the two reallocated signals reliably.

Just speculation in the absence of more data !

PA

Andrew was thinking very hard :
I didn't know there was an 'omni-directional' freeview aerial.

You can get them, but they don't work very well.


read the thread and look at the photos.

Yep, it's an omni - it relies on an amp to boost the much smaller
signal, to an acceptable level for the TV. The problem being that in
boosting the signal, they also boost all signals and all the noise and
interference along with it. A proper antenna maximises the signal, just
the wanted one, to a level which is normally enough for a downlead and
the TV.

Omnis were popular on the roof of caravans, like a flat saucer shape,
with again an amp. They were almost useless except in a strong signal
area - most caravans are used in the countryside, which tend to be poor
signal areas.

The neighbours issue is probably just coincidental, maybe damage to the
download admitting water and rotting it from the inside - happens a
lot.

Yes those sort of aerials only sort of work on caravans and the like. Thy
can be omni directional and of no particular polarisation, but that forgets
one thing, That thing is that channels are shared and the idea of
directional aerials is to discriminate against the ones you don't want, not
always just boost the signal. Also in my view if there are strong signals
about even out of band. Many amplified aerials produce mixing products
putting nasty signals into the wanted band that make signal quality bad. I
have also had personal experience of mast head amps when used with aerials
that have an open circuit dipole, ie not a folded design, being zapped
regularly by lightning over a mile away. Hopefully they now make them better
than the Antiference tin can ones we used to use!

Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Peter Able" wrote in message
...
On 16/04/2021 17:20, Andrew wrote:
Just noticed this thread on the AVFORUMS site.

https://www.avforums.com/threads/iss...erial.2352361/ I
didn't know there was an 'omni-directional' freeview aerial.

read the thread and look at the photos.

The elderly neighbours have an external aerial on quite a high
external pole so they presumably cannot be in a strong signal
area.


Have a look at the manufacturer's page:

https://www.philex.com/products/prod...l-tv-aerial-2/

And in particular, try clicking the "specifications" and then, the "Call
Our Sales Department" or "Technical Support" links. That'll tell you
something.

Note the claims that it is

"High gain - suitable for weak signal areas"

and

"Receives all locally available digital TV signals"

and

"suitable for most signal strength areas"

OK OK, we get it !

Note that "according to Amazon, it is omnidirectional, then the high gain
refers to an amplifier? Hence the power supply

If it is omnidirectional why the triangular marker on the "dome"

How does it recognise the polarity?

Just sayin' !

As regards the neighbour, the implication is that he has marginal
reception ("but not 100%") anyway. I wonder if this is the curse of
recent channel changes ("their TV reception on certain channels has been
really poor") exacerbated by radiation from an amplified then amplified
again neighbour directly in the suffering neighbour's beam direction?

On the other hand, the supplied PSU may be radiating enough hash to tip
the balance for the neighbour.

Being a skinflint with a Group A aerial (weak signal from Crystal Palace)
I've had to tweak the big beam in all three dimensions to receive the two
reallocated signals reliably.

Just speculation in the absence of more data !

PA

I just tested my Disc on my Samsung,Its wide band and omni but has no amp It
works perfectly here in line of sight to Crystal Palace, but there are some
extra stations, just repeats really. I guess these are some fill in stations
from around the area that are not co channelled with the stronger ones. I
can imagine further out from a main transmitter this effect could cause
havoc!

Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
Harry Bloomfield; "Esq." wrote in message
...
Andrew was thinking very hard :
I didn't know there was an 'omni-directional' freeview aerial.

You can get them, but they don't work very well.


read the thread and look at the photos.

Yep, it's an omni - it relies on an amp to boost the much smaller signal,
to an acceptable level for the TV. The problem being that in boosting the
signal, they also boost all signals and all the noise and interference
along with it. A proper antenna maximises the signal, just the wanted one,
to a level which is normally enough for a downlead and the TV.

Omnis were popular on the roof of caravans, like a flat saucer shape, with
again an amp. They were almost useless except in a strong signal area -
most caravans are used in the countryside, which tend to be poor signal
areas.

The neighbours issue is probably just coincidental, maybe damage to the
download admitting water and rotting it from the inside - happens a lot.

On 16/04/2021 19:29, Peter Able wrote:
On 16/04/2021 17:20, Andrew wrote:
Just noticed this thread on the AVFORUMS site.

https://www.avforums.com/threads/iss...erial.2352361/


I didn't know there was an 'omni-directional' freeview aerial.

read the thread and look at the photos.

The elderly neighbours have an external aerial on quite a high
external pole so they presumably cannot be in a strong signal
area.


Have a look at the manufacturer's page:

https://www.philex.com/products/prod...l-tv-aerial-2/


And in particular, try clicking the "specifications" and then, the "Call
Our Sales Department" or "Technical Support" links.Â* That'll tell you
something.

Note the claims that it is

"High gain €“ suitable for weak signal areas"

and

"Receives all locally available digital TV signals"

and

"suitable for most signal strength areas"

OK OK, we get it !

Note that "according to Amazon,Â* it is omnidirectional, then the high
gain refers to an amplifier?Â* Hence the power supply

If it is omnidirectional why the triangular marker on the "dome"

How does it recognise the polarity?

Just sayin' !

As regards the neighbour, the implication is that he has marginal
reception ("but not 100%") anyway.Â* I wonder if this is the curse of
recent channel changes ("their TV reception on certain channels has been
really poor") exacerbated by radiation from an amplified then amplified
again neighbour directly in the suffering neighbour's beam direction?

On the other hand, the supplied PSU may be radiating enough hash to tip
the balance for the neighbour.

Being a skinflint with a Group A aerial (weak signal from Crystal
Palace)Â* I've had to tweak the big beam in all three dimensions to
receive the two reallocated signals reliably.

Just speculation in the absence of more data !

PA

Yes those sort of aerials only sort of work on caravans and the like. Thy
can be omni directional and of no particular polarisation, but that
forgets
one thing, That thing is that channels are shared and the idea of
directional aerials is to discriminate against the ones you don't want, not
always just boost the signal. Also in my view if there are strong signals
about even out of band. Many amplified aerials produce mixing products
putting nasty signals into the wanted band that make signal quality bad. I
have also had personal experience of mast head amps when used with aerials
that have an open circuit dipole, ie not a folded design, being zapped
regularly by lightning over a mile away. Hopefully they now make them
better
than the Antiference tin can ones we used to use!

Brian


Reading more of the external thread the implication is that it is a
toss-up between Crystal Palace and Sandy. With the neighbour and -
previously, the OP - apparently using contractor yagis and getting away
with it - and the latter in his loft - they must have quite a good location.

If it is not easy for you to navigate the manufacturer's web-site,
Brian, the links "Call Our Sales Department" or "Technical Support" both
lead to a 404 error. Enough said !

PA

In article , Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)
wrote:
I just tested my Disc on my Samsung,Its wide band and omni but has no amp
It works perfectly here in line of sight to Crystal Palace, but there
are some extra stations, just repeats really. I guess these are some
fill in stations from around the area that are not co channelled with
the stronger ones. I can imagine further out from a main transmitter
this effect could cause havoc!

Brian

You can probably get Hannington, Guildford & Hemel Hempstead.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On Saturday, April 17, 2021 at 10:19:14 AM UTC+1, Peter Able wrote:
On 16/04/2021 19:29, Peter Able wrote:
On 16/04/2021 17:20, Andrew wrote:
Just noticed this thread on the AVFORUMS site.

https://www.avforums.com/threads/iss...erial.2352361/


I didn't know there was an 'omni-directional' freeview aerial.

read the thread and look at the photos.

The elderly neighbours have an external aerial on quite a high
external pole so they presumably cannot be in a strong signal
area.


Have a look at the manufacturer's page:

https://www.philex.com/products/prod...l-tv-aerial-2/


And in particular, try clicking the "specifications" and then, the "Call
Our Sales Department" or "Technical Support" links. That'll tell you
something.

Note the claims that it is

"High gain €“ suitable for weak signal areas"

and

"Receives all locally available digital TV signals"

and

"suitable for most signal strength areas"

OK OK, we get it !

Note that "according to Amazon, it is omnidirectional, then the high
gain refers to an amplifier? Hence the power supply

If it is omnidirectional why the triangular marker on the "dome"

How does it recognise the polarity?


Possible that the amplifier in the antenna is oscillating and interfering with the neighbors antenna.

On 17/04/2021 10:59, David Lewis wrote:
On Saturday, April 17, 2021 at 10:19:14 AM UTC+1, Peter Able wrote:
On 16/04/2021 19:29, Peter Able wrote:
On 16/04/2021 17:20, Andrew wrote:
Just noticed this thread on the AVFORUMS site.

https://www.avforums.com/threads/iss...erial.2352361/


I didn't know there was an 'omni-directional' freeview aerial.

read the thread and look at the photos.

The elderly neighbours have an external aerial on quite a high
external pole so they presumably cannot be in a strong signal
area.


Have a look at the manufacturer's page:

https://www.philex.com/products/prod...l-tv-aerial-2/


And in particular, try clicking the "specifications" and then, the "Call
Our Sales Department" or "Technical Support" links. That'll tell you
something.

Note the claims that it is

"High gain €“ suitable for weak signal areas"

and

"Receives all locally available digital TV signals"

and

"suitable for most signal strength areas"

OK OK, we get it !

Note that "according to Amazon, it is omnidirectional, then the high
gain refers to an amplifier? Hence the power supply

If it is omnidirectional why the triangular marker on the "dome"

How does it recognise the polarity?


Possible that the amplifier in the antenna is oscillating and interfering with the neighbors antenna.


Quite.

Shame that you snipped off the part of my post implying that!

PA

On Saturday, April 17, 2021 at 12:15:09 PM UTC+1, Peter Able wrote:
On 17/04/2021 10:59, David Lewis wrote:
On Saturday, April 17, 2021 at 10:19:14 AM UTC+1, Peter Able wrote:
On 16/04/2021 19:29, Peter Able wrote:
On 16/04/2021 17:20, Andrew wrote:
Just noticed this thread on the AVFORUMS site.

https://www.avforums.com/threads/iss...erial.2352361/


I didn't know there was an 'omni-directional' freeview aerial.

read the thread and look at the photos.

The elderly neighbours have an external aerial on quite a high
external pole so they presumably cannot be in a strong signal
area.


Have a look at the manufacturer's page:

https://www.philex.com/products/prod...l-tv-aerial-2/


And in particular, try clicking the "specifications" and then, the "Call
Our Sales Department" or "Technical Support" links. That'll tell you
something.

Note the claims that it is

"High gain €“ suitable for weak signal areas"

and

"Receives all locally available digital TV signals"

and

"suitable for most signal strength areas"

OK OK, we get it !

Note that "according to Amazon, it is omnidirectional, then the high
gain refers to an amplifier? Hence the power supply

If it is omnidirectional why the triangular marker on the "dome"

How does it recognise the polarity?


Possible that the amplifier in the antenna is oscillating and interfering with the neighbors antenna.

Quite.

Shame that you snipped off the part of my post implying that!

PA
My total and profuse apologies - you comments unsnipped below;
"Many amplified aerials produce mixing products putting nasty signals into the wanted band that make signal quality bad."

Andrew wrote:
Just noticed this thread on the AVFORUMS site.

https://www.avforums.com/threads/iss...erial.2352361/


I didn't know there was an 'omni-directional' freeview aerial.

read the thread and look at the photos.

The elderly neighbours have an external aerial on quite a high
external pole so they presumably cannot be in a strong signal
area.


I wish you guys had tvfool.com , as this tells you
so much about your local conditions.

Here, I plugged in an address in an area that is poorly
served by TV.

https://i.postimg.cc/wMcnbt54/Radar-All-Fred.png

If I used an Omni, maybe I could pick up 31,44,9.

If I used a directional, and pointed it at 149 degrees true,
I could pick up 9 and 12. There would be enough additional
gain just from the antenna (say 10dB) to make 12 a bit
more solid. But if I wanted all four 31,44,9,12,
then I might need to put the directional aerial on
a rotator. And the mount would have to be solid enough,
that when the wind blows, the deflection does not
cause temporary loss of sync on the TV set (black screen etc).

Summary: You can use just about anything, if the conditions
are right for it. Things work in your favor, if all
the desired channels are on the same compass point.
Our cottage back home, TV starved as it is, has all
available channels on one compass point, so no rotator
could ever be needed (and you can go crazy with the
directional setup).

Maybe in the case of the elderly neighbours, it's the
pole and clearing the treeline that is the most important
aspect of this install, and what is on the pole was
not considered important in any way. Maybe a rabbit ears
could have been stuck on top of the pole :-) Think how
cool that would be.

Paul

On 17/04/2021 14:48, Paul wrote:
Andrew wrote:
Just noticed this thread on the AVFORUMS site.

https://www.avforums.com/threads/iss...erial.2352361/


I didn't know there was an 'omni-directional' freeview aerial.

read the thread and look at the photos.

The elderly neighbours have an external aerial on quite a high
external pole so they presumably cannot be in a strong signal
area.


I wish you guys had tvfool.com , as this tells you
so much about your local conditions.


I think tvfool is for America, the original post is in the UK and we
follow OFCOM rather than FCC when it comes to TV and radio transmissions....

VHF TV ceased back in the 1980s if I recall correctly......

PLus we have DAB here wehereas you ahev Sirius/XM radio.....

SH wrote:
On 17/04/2021 14:48, Paul wrote:
Andrew wrote:
Just noticed this thread on the AVFORUMS site.

https://www.avforums.com/threads/iss...erial.2352361/


I didn't know there was an 'omni-directional' freeview aerial.

read the thread and look at the photos.

The elderly neighbours have an external aerial on quite a high
external pole so they presumably cannot be in a strong signal
area.


I wish you guys had tvfool.com , as this tells you
so much about your local conditions.


I think tvfool is for America, the original post is in the UK and we
follow OFCOM rather than FCC when it comes to TV and radio
transmissions....

VHF TV ceased back in the 1980s if I recall correctly......

PLus we have DAB here wehereas you ahev Sirius/XM radio.....


I took care to explain the utility of the site, and
how it aids in setup. Some private person set that up,
but I don't know whether the dataset comes from government,
or is derived in some other way.

If you had similar, then less guesswork is required.

The colours indicate the class of aerial required for
the job. Green, is just about anything works. If you
want the outer ring, then a massive Yagi is required,
plus some luck. There are some other sites that use
the colouring scheme for antennas, to guide consumers.

One of the columns shows how the signal arrives.
My cottage example receives a boost, because the
signal travels over water for a portion of the trip.
And when a large ship passes in the bay, the TV goes
off :-)

Paul

On 17/04/2021 23:22, Paul wrote:


If you had similar, then less guesswork is required.

Many UK related sites for TV reception, including those that give
channel lists/frequencies, aerial groups, compass bearing from the house
to the transmitter and the terrain between the house and transmitter
(hills that can block transmission etc.)

In the case of the OP question there are a few things that may be wrong
with the neighbours setup.

They may be getting signals from more than one transmitter and depending
on how their TV equipment works the channels on their TV may be
allocated to the wrong (weaker signal) transmitter. For instance, my
aerial is pointing to one transmitter but can still see, on a good day,
signals from 3 other transmitters. The neighbours cable from aerial to
TV may still be that commonly used in the past (and still on sale) that
has very little screening and may be easily picking up local electrical
interference. etc.

--
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