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ARW ARW is offline
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Default Landlords and EICR

Some of us here are aware that landlords now have to have an EICR every
five years on their rentals.

So I went to do remedial work on a report that was done by another company.

C1 Danger Present
C2 Potentially dangerous
C3 Improvement recommended
FI **** It - I'll look at it later and that's going to cost you/it's 4pm etc

For those that do not know the codes.

How would you code a smashed 20A DP immersion heater switch in the
airing cupboard showing exposed cores on a circuit that was removed from
the CU several years ago when the combi boiler was installed?


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Default Landlords and EICR

On Thu, 25 Feb 2021 20:21:58 +0000, ARW wrote:

Some of us here are aware that landlords now have to have an EICR every
five years on their rentals.

So I went to do remedial work on a report that was done by another
company.

C1 Danger Present C2 Potentially dangerous C3 Improvement recommended FI
**** It - I'll look at it later and that's going to cost you/it's 4pm
etc

For those that do not know the codes.

How would you code a smashed 20A DP immersion heater switch in the
airing cupboard showing exposed cores on a circuit that was removed from
the CU several years ago when the combi boiler was installed?


If there is no power to it, I would suggest an FI and possibly gaffer tape
or similar to hide the non-dangerous bits.

Cheers



Dave R



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Default Landlords and EICR

On 25/02/2021 20:21, ARW wrote:
Some of us here are aware that landlords now have to have an EICR every
five years on their rentals.

So I went to do remedial work on a report that was done by another company.

C1 Danger Present
C2 Potentially dangerous
C3 Improvement recommended
FI **** It - I'll look at it later and that's going to cost you/it's 4pm
etc

For those that do not know the codes.

How would you code a smashed 20A DP immersion heater switch in the
airing cupboard showing exposed cores on a circuit that was removed from
the CU several years ago when the combi boiler was installed?



C2 - 'cos who knows when the other end might be connected again?


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Robin
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Default Landlords and EICR

On 25/02/2021 20:21, ARW wrote:
Some of us here are aware that landlords now have to have an EICR every
five years on their rentals.

So I went to do remedial work on a report that was done by another company.

C1 Danger Present
C2 Potentially dangerous
C3 Improvement recommended
FI **** It - I'll look at it later and that's going to cost you/it's 4pm
etc

For those that do not know the codes.

How would you code a smashed 20A DP immersion heater switch in the
airing cupboard showing exposed cores on a circuit that was removed from
the CU several years ago when the combi boiler was installed?


If not live then it can't be a C1.

If there is a risk to it being live at some point then C2 or FI

If there is some confidence that it can't be live from being competently
isolated at the CU then perhaps C3.

And the answer is?
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Default Landlords and EICR

On 26/02/2021 10:53, Owain Lastname wrote:
On Thursday, 25 February 2021 at 20:22:02 UTC, ARW wrote:
How would you code a smashed 20A DP immersion heater switch in the
airing cupboard showing exposed cores on a circuit that was removed from
the CU several years ago when the combi boiler was installed?


If the other end of the cable was *completely* removed from the CU, it's not part of the electrical installation at all.


I'm not /sure/ that is a complete answer given the way "electrical
installation" is defined differently for BS7671 and for the regulations
for landlords:

BS7671: Electrical installation (abbr: Installation). An assembly of
associated electrical equipment having co-ordinated
characteristics to fulfil specific purposes.

SI 2010/2214 (applied by SI 2020/312): €śelectrical installation€ť means
fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located on the
consumer's side of the electricity supply meter;




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Default Landlords and EICR

On 25/02/2021 21:23, Robin wrote:
On 25/02/2021 20:21, ARW wrote:
Some of us here are aware that landlords now have to have an EICR
every five years on their rentals.

So I went to do remedial work on a report that was done by another
company.

C1 Danger Present
C2 Potentially dangerous
C3 Improvement recommended
FI **** It - I'll look at it later and that's going to cost you/it's
4pm etc

For those that do not know the codes.

How would you code a smashed 20A DP immersion heater switch in the
airing cupboard showing exposed cores on a circuit that was removed
from the CU several years ago when the combi boiler was installed?



C2 -Â* 'cos who knows when the other end might be connected again?



It's going to take some reconnecting. Cut off flush with the wall as it
enters the CU.


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Default Landlords and EICR

On 26/02/2021 11:18, Robin wrote:
On 26/02/2021 10:53, Owain Lastname wrote:
On Thursday, 25 February 2021 at 20:22:02 UTC, ARW wrote:
How would you code a smashed 20A DP immersion heater switch in the
airing cupboard showing exposed cores on a circuit that was removed from
the CU several years ago when the combi boiler was installed?


If the other end of the cable was *completely* removed from the CU,
it's not part of the electrical installation at all.


I'm not /sure/ that is a complete answer given the way "electrical
installation" is defined differently for BS7671 and for the regulations
for landlords:

BS7671: Electrical installation (abbr: Installation). An assembly of
associated electrical equipment having co-ordinated
characteristics to fulfil specific purposes.

SI 2010/2214 (applied by SI 2020/312): €śelectrical installation€ť means
fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located on the
consumer's side of the electricity supply meter;


I am going to say it's not part of the installation (Owain is the winner
of this small competition). Note that the other end of the cable no
longer enters the CU and would take considerable effort to actually
reconnect it (see other post). I did say removed...

The switch was IMHO nothing more than a Tracy Emin work of art..


I removed the switch and patress faster than it would have taken to
write out the ****e on the EICR. The screws are still their I just used
a hammer and snips.






--
Adam
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Default Landlords and EICR

On 26/02/2021 19:08, ARW wrote:
On 26/02/2021 11:18, Robin wrote:
On 26/02/2021 10:53, Owain Lastname wrote:
On Thursday, 25 February 2021 at 20:22:02 UTC, ARW wrote:
How would you code a smashed 20A DP immersion heater switch in the
airing cupboard showing exposed cores on a circuit that was removed
from
the CU several years ago when the combi boiler was installed?

If the other end of the cable was *completely* removed from the CU,
it's not part of the electrical installation at all.


I'm not /sure/ that is a complete answer given the way "electrical
installation" is defined differently for BS7671 and for the
regulations for landlords:

BS7671: Electrical installation (abbr: Installation). An assembly of
associated electrical equipment having co-ordinated
characteristics to fulfil specific purposes.

SI 2010/2214 (applied by SI 2020/312): €śelectrical installation€ť means
fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located on the
consumer's side of the electricity supply meter;


I am going to say it's not part of the installation (Owain is the winner
of this small competition). Note that the other end of the cable no
longer enters the CU and would take considerable effort to actually
reconnect it (see other post). I did say removed...

The switch was IMHO nothing more than a Tracy Emin work of art..


I removed the switch and patress faster than it would have taken to
write out the ****e on the EICR. The screws are still their I just used
a hammer and snips.



Noted, ta.



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Default Landlords and EICR

On 26/02/2021 19:08, ARW wrote:
On 26/02/2021 11:18, Robin wrote:
On 26/02/2021 10:53, Owain Lastname wrote:
On Thursday, 25 February 2021 at 20:22:02 UTC, ARW wrote:
How would you code a smashed 20A DP immersion heater switch in the
airing cupboard showing exposed cores on a circuit that was removed
from
the CU several years ago when the combi boiler was installed?

If the other end of the cable was *completely* removed from the CU,
it's not part of the electrical installation at all.


I'm not /sure/ that is a complete answer given the way "electrical
installation" is defined differently for BS7671 and for the
regulations for landlords:

BS7671: Electrical installation (abbr: Installation). An assembly of
associated electrical equipment having co-ordinated
characteristics to fulfil specific purposes.

SI 2010/2214 (applied by SI 2020/312): €śelectrical installation€ť means
fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located on the
consumer's side of the electricity supply meter;


I am going to say it's not part of the installation (Owain is the winner
of this small competition). Note that the other end of the cable no
longer enters the CU and would take considerable effort to actually
reconnect it (see other post). I did say removed...


But you didn't say how well removed :-)

The switch was IMHO nothing more than a Tracy Emin work of art..


I removed the switch and patress faster than it would have taken to
write out the ****e on the EICR. The screws are still their I just used
a hammer and snips.





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Default Landlords and EICR

On 26/02/2021 23:33, Fredxx wrote:
On 26/02/2021 19:08, ARW wrote:
On 26/02/2021 11:18, Robin wrote:
On 26/02/2021 10:53, Owain Lastname wrote:
On Thursday, 25 February 2021 at 20:22:02 UTC, ARW wrote:
How would you code a smashed 20A DP immersion heater switch in the
airing cupboard showing exposed cores on a circuit that was removed
from
the CU several years ago when the combi boiler was installed?

If the other end of the cable was *completely* removed from the CU,
it's not part of the electrical installation at all.

I'm not /sure/ that is a complete answer given the way "electrical
installation" is defined differently for BS7671 and for the
regulations for landlords:

BS7671: Electrical installation (abbr: Installation). An assembly of
associated electrical equipment having co-ordinated
characteristics to fulfil specific purposes.

SI 2010/2214 (applied by SI 2020/312): €śelectrical installation€ť
means fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located
on the consumer's side of the electricity supply meter;


I am going to say it's not part of the installation (Owain is the
winner of this small competition). Note that the other end of the
cable no longer enters the CU and would take considerable effort to
actually reconnect it (see other post). I did say removed...


But you didn't say how well removedÂ* :-)


I only found that out when I swapped the CU.

Another C1 was two rings on the same MCB. I do not see that as dangerous.

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Default Landlords and EICR

On 27/02/2021 09:26, Owain Lastname wrote:
On Friday, 26 February 2021 at 11:18:39 UTC, Robin wrote:
If the other end of the cable was *completely* removed from the CU, it's not part of the electrical
installation at all.

I'm not /sure/ that is a complete answer given the way "electrical
installation" is defined differently for BS7671 and for the regulations
for landlords:
SI 2010/2214 (applied by SI 2020/312): €śelectrical installation€ť means
fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located on the
consumer's side of the electricity supply meter;


But if it's disconnected it's not "located on the consumer's side of the electricity supply meter".

Otherwise my Wylex fuseboard would be an immediate EICR fail. It is purely decorative. I think I can admit to having a fuseboard for decorative purposes here without being laughed at.


I wouldn't doubt that (any more than I would doubt Adam's decision). I
had in mind more the old argument that fixed cable etc doesn't count as
part of an installation if it's only connected by being plugged into a
socket. I never saw a definitive answer on that as regards BS7671. It
was addressed in Approved Document P* which is what made me think the
different definitions might matter, and leave it as a question of fact
and degree.

*"The installation of fixed equipment is within the scope of part P,
even where the final connection is by a 13A plug and socket."


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On 27/02/2021 08:03, ARW wrote:

Another C1 was two rings on the same MCB. I do not see that as dangerous.


Did the tenant complain that it kept tripping?
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On 27/02/2021 10:20, GB wrote:
On 27/02/2021 08:03, ARW wrote:

Another C1 was two rings on the same MCB. I do not see that as dangerous.


Did the tenant complain that it kept tripping?


They usually adopt a more creative approach to power their
grow lamps :-)
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On 27/02/2021 09:26, Owain Lastname wrote:
On Friday, 26 February 2021 at 11:18:39 UTC, Robin wrote:
If the other end of the cable was *completely* removed from the CU, it's not part of the electrical
installation at all.

I'm not /sure/ that is a complete answer given the way "electrical
installation" is defined differently for BS7671 and for the regulations
for landlords:
SI 2010/2214 (applied by SI 2020/312): €śelectrical installation€ť means
fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located on the
consumer's side of the electricity supply meter;


But if it's disconnected it's not "located on the consumer's side of the electricity supply meter".

Otherwise my Wylex fuseboard would be an immediate EICR fail. It is purely decorative. I think I can admit to having a fuseboard for decorative purposes here without being laughed at.

Owain







The fire alamrm company I worked for in the 90's removed some
interesting old fuse boards from various BT exchanges that were
made of fancy dovetailed mahogany with bakelite boards and nice
brass fittings.


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On 27/02/2021 09:56, Robin wrote:
On 27/02/2021 09:26, Owain Lastname wrote:
On Friday, 26 February 2021 at 11:18:39 UTC, Robin wrote:
If the other end of the cable was *completely* removed from the CU,
it's not part of the electrical
installation at all.
I'm not /sure/ that is a complete answer given the way "electrical
installation" is defined differently for BS7671 and for the regulations
for landlords:
SI 2010/2214 (applied by SI 2020/312): €śelectrical installation€ť means
fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located on the
consumer's side of the electricity supply meter;


But if it's disconnected it's not "located on the consumer's side of
the electricity supply meter".

Otherwise my Wylex fuseboard would be an immediate EICR fail. It is
purely decorative. I think I can admit to having a fuseboard for
decorative purposes here without being laughed at.


I wouldn't doubt that (any more than I would doubt Adam's decision).Â* I
had in mind more the old argument that fixed cable etc doesn't count as
part of an installation if it's only connected by being plugged into a
socket.Â* I never saw a definitive answer on that as regards BS7671.Â* It
was addressed in Approved Document P* which is what made me think the
different definitions might matter, and leave it as a question of fact
and degree.

*"The installation of fixed equipment is within the scope of part P,
even where the final connection is by a 13A plug and socket."



My detached garage is powered like that. Someone (?john Rumm)
said it disn't matter, it was still fixed wiring.
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Owain Lastname wrote:

I think I can admit to having a fuseboard for decorative purposes here without being laughed at.


leading to a knife-switch?

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On 27/02/2021 08:03, ARW wrote:
On 26/02/2021 23:33, Fredxx wrote:
On 26/02/2021 19:08, ARW wrote:
On 26/02/2021 11:18, Robin wrote:
On 26/02/2021 10:53, Owain Lastname wrote:
On Thursday, 25 February 2021 at 20:22:02 UTC, ARW wrote:
How would you code a smashed 20A DP immersion heater switch in the
airing cupboard showing exposed cores on a circuit that was
removed from
the CU several years ago when the combi boiler was installed?

If the other end of the cable was *completely* removed from the CU,
it's not part of the electrical installation at all.

I'm not /sure/ that is a complete answer given the way "electrical
installation" is defined differently for BS7671 and for the
regulations for landlords:

BS7671: Electrical installation (abbr: Installation). An assembly of
associated electrical equipment having co-ordinated
characteristics to fulfil specific purposes.

SI 2010/2214 (applied by SI 2020/312): €śelectrical installation€ť
means fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located
on the consumer's side of the electricity supply meter;

I am going to say it's not part of the installation (Owain is the
winner of this small competition). Note that the other end of the
cable no longer enters the CU and would take considerable effort to
actually reconnect it (see other post). I did say removed...


But you didn't say how well removedÂ* :-)


I only found that out when I swapped the CU.

Another C1 was two rings on the same MCB. I do not see that as dangerous.


Would that be a C3, hardly dangerous or requiring immediate attention?



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On 27/02/2021 18:58, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/02/2021 08:03, ARW wrote:
On 26/02/2021 23:33, Fredxx wrote:


I only found that out when I swapped the CU.

Another C1 was two rings on the same MCB. I do not see that as dangerous.


Would that be a C3, hardly dangerous or requiring immediate attention?




Yes.



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Adam
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