In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
The issue is why you would think "BoJo and pals are perfectly capable of
bringing this country to its knees without help from the EU",

Very simple. By the way they've handled this pandemic. Constantly too
little too late.

15m jabs too late? But ahead of your precious EU who sat ont heir hands
whilst the vaccine tests were progressing and then took months as usual
putting together a cumbersome procurement exercise.
Since you've already mentioned NZ, another island state, look at how
they've handled it.

Not exactly a world travel and business hub, New Zealand, is it?
--
bert

In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 13/02/2021 21:56, Tim Streater wrote:
On 13 Feb 2021 at 19:11:33 GMT, Fredxx wrote:

On 13/02/2021 12:58, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
The issue is why you would think "BoJo and pals are perfectly capable of
bringing this country to its knees without help from the EU",
Very simple. By the way they've handled this pandemic.
Constantly too
little too late.

They were hardly too late or too little with vaccines.

Since you've already mentioned NZ, another island state, look at how
they've handled it.

Yes, they seem less affected and their first lockdown was March 2020.
They effectively contained the virus but there were lots of noises about
hardship and the hit on the economy.

One reason cited for the late initial lockdown in the UK was that
lockdown would be observed for a finite time, and after people would
ignore instructions.
Which is essentially what is happening now. Went food shopping in
Morrisons
today. No one social distancing, people just walking around any old how.
everyone had a mask though, although that is easy to arrange.

Waitrose wouldn't let me in on Friday, till 15 people had
left....social distancing being respected, if not 100% observed
everywhere.


In my experience yo have the two extremes there. Waitrose quite
conscientious, Morrisons hopeless.
--
bert

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 13/02/2021 12:58, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
The issue is why you would think "BoJo and pals are perfectly capable of
bringing this country to its knees without help from the EU",

Very simple. By the way they've handled this pandemic. Constantly too
little too late.

They were hardly too late or too little with vaccines.

So they actually got one thing right. Good to see you being so defensive.

Since you've already mentioned NZ, another island state, look at how
they've handled it.

Yes, they seem less affected and their first lockdown was March 2020.
They effectively contained the virus but there were lots of noises about
hardship and the hit on the economy.

One reason cited for the late initial lockdown in the UK was that
lockdown would be observed for a finite time, and after people would
ignore instructions.

I would have preferred greater enforcement where travel has to be
sanctioned in advance and to be the exception rather than the rule but
there seems little appetite for such, as indeed demonstrated in these
groups.

Facemasks also aren't enforced where some trivial excuse like having
mental illness or asthma is all that is needed to avoid wearing them.

It was the total lack of taking heed of their experts in the late
autumn/winter that is the most damning.

Have you not noticed. For every expert there is an equal and opposite
expert. Most of them are merely mathematical modellers.
--
bert

In article , Fred
writes


"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
On 14 Feb 2021 at 17:48:26 GMT, "tim..." wrote:



"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
The issue is why you would think "BoJo and pals are perfectly
capable of
bringing this country to its knees without help from the EU",

Very simple. By the way they've handled this pandemic. Constantly too
little too late.

Since you've already mentioned NZ, another island state, look at how
they've handled it.

NZ is not the slightest bit comparable with the UK (from a Covid pov)

It is geographically the same size as the UK with one tenth the
population

UK is closer to 13 times population.

Its nearest trading partner is 2000 miles away (yes I was surprised
it was that far too)

consequently it can close its borders and be 100% self sufficient if
it needs to be

If it does need to trade it can make sure that it is all funnelled
through one port with strict rules about quarantining the crew

If we closed our borders to 100% of imports, the population would starve

And NZ doesn't have a major transport hub (Heathrow) with people
wanting to
transit.

The small population in a similar land area is what is the major
advantage.

But clearly isnt the reason that china did vastly better than the UK.

And it has a major transport hub too.
In China if they say stay indoors, you stay indoors.
--
bert

On 15/02/2021 12:11, bert wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 13/02/2021 21:56, Tim Streater wrote:
On 13 Feb 2021 at 19:11:33 GMT, Fredxx wrote:

On 13/02/2021 12:58, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Â* In article ,
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Fredxx wrote:
Â* The issue is why you would think "BoJo and pals are perfectly
capable of
Â* bringing this country to its knees without help from the EU",
Â*Â*Â*Â* Very simple. By the way they've handled this pandemic.
Constantly too
Â* little too late.

They were hardly too late or too little with vaccines.

Â* Since you've already mentioned NZ, another island state, look at how
Â* they've handled it.

Yes, they seem less affected and their first lockdown was March 2020.
They effectively contained the virus but there were lots of noises
about
hardship and the hit on the economy.

One reason cited for the late initial lockdown in the UK was that
lockdown would be observed for a finite time, and after people would
ignore instructions.
Â*Which is essentially what is happening now. Went food shopping in
Morrisons
today. No one social distancing, people just walking around any old how.
everyone had a mask though, although that is easy to arrange.

Waitrose wouldn't let me in on Friday, till 15 people had
left....social distancing being respected, if not 100% observed
everywhere.


In my experience yo have the two extremes there. Waitrose quite
conscientious, Morrisons hopeless.

We've mainly been shopping online for delivery or click and collect (as
my wife is shielding). On Saturday night my wife went to add something
to the Sunday delivery order and found that Sainsburys had cancelled it,
with no communication to her! She banged an order in quick (she only had
15 minutes before the deadline) and managed to get a slot on Sunday
evening. However, lots of items turned out to be unavailable completely
or substituted by unsuitable replacements. I therefore had to go to the
Sainsburys Local. Two people standing chatting, blocking the whole
aisle; then when queuing to pay, a black (therefore higher risk) guy in
front was wearing his mask only over his mouth; and behind me a young
couple, shopping together, could stand still, kept moving around each
other and almost bumping into me - due to another till opening, they
ended up in front of me at the door and then stood right in the doorway
discussing which way to go!

What is so hard about wearing a mask properly; getting what you, as
quickly as possible; queuing according to the floor markings; and then
getting out.

On 15/02/2021 00:29, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Since you've already mentioned NZ, another island state, look at how
they've handled it.

NZ is not the slightest bit comparable with the UK (from a Covid pov)

It is geographically the same size as the UK with one tenth the population

Its nearest trading partner is 2000 miles away (yes I was surprised it was
that far too)

consequently it can close its borders and be 100% self sufficient if it
needs to be

So just to be clear. You're saying NZ contained Covid by stopping all
imports and exports, including food etc?

I don't know about that, but surely cross-channel, North Sea and Irish
Sea ferries could have transported trailers without the tractor units
and drivers (they have been doing that for decades and although
loading/unloading would be a little slower, traffic is way down anyway).

Crew do not need to leave the ferry or mix with anyone at one side of
the crossing. Therefore (other than essential workers or medical
emergencies) far fewer (none?) would have needed to pass from one
country to another across the sea.

Freight ship crews could similarly remain isolated onboard, except in
their home port and (as has been happening in some places) airline crews
could be kept in isolation before their return flights.

Maybe our government looked at at, but has never been presented as an
option.

On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 13:15:56 +0000, Steve Walker
wrote:

snip

What is so hard about wearing a mask properly; getting what you, as
quickly as possible; queuing according to the floor markings; and then
getting out.

Loads. To do and keep doing that you have to both consider others and
understand the rules / reasons / processes and few do, well, till they
or someone close to them catches / dies of it ... then they at least
realise what they should have been doing all along (possibly).

As always it's a selfish / ignorant minority who spoil it for everyone
else (like those flying into Heathrow then getting the train into
Scotland to avoid being locked down, putting all of us at risk).

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
T i m wrote:
On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 13:15:56 +0000, Steve Walker
wrote:

snip

What is so hard about wearing a mask properly; getting what you, as
quickly as possible; queuing according to the floor markings; and then
getting out.

Loads. To do and keep doing that you have to both consider others and
understand the rules / reasons / processes and few do, well, till they
or someone close to them catches / dies of it ... then they at least
realise what they should have been doing all along (possibly).

As always it's a selfish / ignorant minority who spoil it for everyone
else (like those flying into Heathrow then getting the train into
Scotland to avoid being locked down, putting all of us at risk).

Cheers, T i m

Ten days ago, I was in the Westfield White City complex. Quite permissable
- that's where my dentist is. I used the car park. There seem to be be
people about who can't read the one-way signs and others who weren't
wearing masks - you are not allowed in if you aren't. I wonder if it will
be any better on Friday when I go back?

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

The EU has declared war on us hasn't it?
That's how scared they are that other nations will follow us.


No,
if anyone did,
the UK 'declared war' on Europe with the Brexit vote.

They speak English,
they know the lies of £350 milllion saved for the NHS ,
straight bananas etc
that Boris and co have been spreading for years.

No, they dont want more chaos in the EU with more countries leaving,
Brexit has cost them money and lost trade too,
but not as much as its costing the UK

[g]

In message , bert writes
In my experience yo have the two extremes there. Waitrose quite
conscientious, Morrisons hopeless.

More Reasons to shop elsewhere ?

Adrian
--
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replace "diy" with "news" and reverse the domain

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DIY Forum or Google Groups, please be aware this is NOT a forum, and
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In message , Steve Walker
writes
Freight ship crews could similarly remain isolated onboard, except in
their home port


Many ships don't visit their home port on a regular basis, if at all.
There have been plenty of reports of crews being stuck on ships for
weeks (months ?) after they were due to be relieved.

Adrian
--
To Reply :
replace "diy" with "news" and reverse the domain

If you are reading this from a web interface eg DIY Banter,
DIY Forum or Google Groups, please be aware this is NOT a forum, and
you are merely using a web portal to a USENET group. Many people block
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On 15/02/2021 18:29, Adrian wrote:
In message , Steve Walker
writes
Freight ship crews could similarly remain isolated onboard, except in
their home port


Many ships don't visit their home port on a regular basis, if at all.
There have been plenty of reports of crews being stuck on ships for
weeks (months ?) after they were due to be relieved.

But still not a reason for them to disembark or mix with anyone in the UK.

On 15/02/2021 18:04, George Miles wrote:



The EU has declared war on us hasn't it?
That's how scared they are that other nations will follow us.


No,
if anyone did,
the UK 'declared war' on Europe with the Brexit vote.

Jesus H. Do you believe that?


They speak English,
they know the lies of £350 milllion saved for the NHS ,
straight bananas etc
that Boris and co have been spreading for years.

No, they dont want more chaos in the EU with more countries leaving,
Brexit has cost them money and lost trade too,
but not as much as its costing the UK

[g]

Christ on a bike. **** off to EUroland please. UK doesn't need you or
want you



--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

In message , Steve Walker
writes
On 15/02/2021 18:29, Adrian wrote:
In message , Steve Walker
writes
Freight ship crews could similarly remain isolated onboard, except
in their home port

Many ships don't visit their home port on a regular basis, if at
all. There have been plenty of reports of crews being stuck on ships
for weeks (months ?) after they were due to be relieved.

But still not a reason for them to disembark or mix with anyone in the UK.

And if the ship doesn't visit the UK ?

Adrian
--
To Reply :
replace "diy" with "news" and reverse the domain

If you are reading this from a web interface eg DIY Banter,
DIY Forum or Google Groups, please be aware this is NOT a forum, and
you are merely using a web portal to a USENET group. Many people block
posters coming from web portals due to perceieved SPAM or inaneness.
For a better method of access, please see:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

Steve Walker wrote:

surely cross-channel, North Sea and Irish Sea ferries could have
transported trailers without the tractor units and drivers (they have
been doing that for decades and although loading/unloading would be a
little slower, traffic is way down anyway).

Crew do not need to leave the ferry or mix with anyone at one side of
the crossing.

Didn't somone ask about the swivelly 'Terberg' tractors used on RoRo a
few months ago?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKXZ32pa628

On 15 Feb 2021 18:16:48 GMT, Tim Streater
wrote:

On 15 Feb 2021 at 18:04:21 GMT, George Miles wrote:

they know the lies of £350 milllion saved for the NHS ,

Oh is this a lie? Do tell me in what way. I'm keen to know.

I appreciate you are only a goblin and really don't understand all
this human stuff but we have *NEVER* paid £350M/w to the EU EVER,
because a discount was agreed (the UK wanting to have special
treatment again) and so we only *ever* paid the sum after discount.

And even if the net sum was that it 'cost' us being in the EU, that's
part of the deal, that all those who can help those who can't so they
can become stronger themselves (and it's working).

And even if it was the case there is nothing in writing to say that
this '£350 million / week' would *EVER* be given to the NHS *instead*.

No, they dont want more chaos in the EU with more countries leaving,

Whether countries leave or not is not a matter for the EU, it's a matter for
the country concerned.

No, if only you had told us this earlier ...

More particularly, for its population.

Or a minority of it's population, apparently.

This is
obviously the case since it's wired into the Lisbon Treaty. But I don't recall
there being any text there that the EU reserved the right to sulk about it, or
could veto countries which chose to leave, or treat them in a ****ty childish
way.

You just need to grow a pair goblin. You got exactly what you voted
for, or what you might have predicted you had voted for, had you not
just been a thick meat eating goblin. The problem with your kind is
that you will never 'get it'.

If you disagree, feel free to point me at the relevant text.

You wouldn't understand any text, even it you ate it, it's just people
(that make up all these bodies) being people.

You take your ball home you don't expect to be invited to the party or
treated like one of the team.

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
T i m wrote:
On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 10:40:16 +0000, Richard
wrote:

On 15/02/2021 00:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
The small population in a similar land area is what is the major
advantage.

Are you actually saying they don't have large cities? That is where it
spread the quickest. Not in rural areas.


No.
He actually said:
The small population in a similar land area is what is the major
advantage.

HTH

Of course it doesn't because you are missing *the point* .;-(

Quite

Just because there is a smaller population overall (per surface area)
doesn't mean the population density (= Covid transmission risk) isn't
very similar to a country with a larger or smaller general population
or landmass.

The US has a vast land area per person. Doesn't seem to have helped them
much

--
*I have never hated a man enough to give his diamonds back.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
bert wrote:
Very simple. By the way they've handled this pandemic. Constantly too
little too late.

15m jabs too late?

120,000 deaths too late.

--
*He who laughs last has just realised the joke.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
On 15 Feb 2021 at 18:04:21 GMT, George Miles wrote:

they know the lies of £350 milllion saved for the NHS ,

Oh is this a lie? Do tell me in what way. I'm keen to know.

No, they dont want more chaos in the EU with more countries leaving,

Whether countries leave or not is not a matter for the EU, it's a matter
for the country concerned. More particularly, for its population. This
is obviously the case since it's wired into the Lisbon Treaty. But I
don't recall there being any text there that the EU reserved the right
to sulk about it, or could veto countries which chose to leave, or treat
them in a ****ty childish way. If you disagree, feel free to point me at
the relevant text.

But, of course, the last thing the UK wanted was to leave the EU. They
expected to still be in it (as it were) except for all the bits they
didn't like. An EU lite, designed by the UK.

Surely it comes as no surprise that the EU simply isn't having it?

It will be very interesting to see how the leave supporters treat Scotland
if it gains independence.

--
*The severity of the itch is proportional to the reach *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , Fred
writes


"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
On 14 Feb 2021 at 17:48:26 GMT, "tim..." wrote:



"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
The issue is why you would think "BoJo and pals are perfectly
capable of
bringing this country to its knees without help from the EU",

Very simple. By the way they've handled this pandemic. Constantly too
little too late.

Since you've already mentioned NZ, another island state, look at how
they've handled it.

NZ is not the slightest bit comparable with the UK (from a Covid pov)

It is geographically the same size as the UK with one tenth the
population

UK is closer to 13 times population.

Its nearest trading partner is 2000 miles away (yes I was surprised it
was that far too)

consequently it can close its borders and be 100% self sufficient if it
needs to be

If it does need to trade it can make sure that it is all funnelled
through one port with strict rules about quarantining the crew

If we closed our borders to 100% of imports, the population would
starve

And NZ doesn't have a major transport hub (Heathrow) with people wanting
to
transit.

The small population in a similar land area is what is the major
advantage.

But clearly isnt the reason that china did vastly better than the UK.

And it has a major transport hub too.

In China if they say stay indoors, you stay indoors.

They certainly do what the govt says more often.

But china wasn't stupid enough to allow you
out for exercise or walking the dog etc as well.

Let alone have stupidities like eat out to help out.

On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 14:37:38 +1100, Fred, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing the auto-contradicting senile cretin:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID:

On 16/02/2021 10:37, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 01:10:00 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
On 15 Feb 2021 at 18:04:21 GMT, George Miles
wrote:

they know the lies of £350 milllion saved for the NHS ,

Oh is this a lie? Do tell me in what way. I'm keen to know.

No, they dont want more chaos in the EU with more countries leaving,

Whether countries leave or not is not a matter for the EU, it's a
matter for the country concerned. More particularly, for its
population. This is obviously the case since it's wired into the Lisbon
Treaty. But I don't recall there being any text there that the EU
reserved the right to sulk about it, or could veto countries which
chose to leave, or treat them in a ****ty childish way. If you
disagree, feel free to point me at the relevant text.

But, of course, the last thing the UK wanted was to leave the EU. They
expected to still be in it (as it were) except for all the bits they
didn't like. An EU lite, designed by the UK.

Surely it comes as no surprise that the EU simply isn't having it?

It will be very interesting to see how the leave supporters treat
Scotland if it gains independence.

When. One way or another it will happen.

If it does it will be a massive boost to England, especially if there is
a hard border so the third world starving jocks cant emigrate to England.





--
€œIt is not the truth of Marxism that explains the willingness of
intellectuals to believe it, but the power that it confers on
intellectuals, in their attempts to control the world. And since...it is
futile to reason someone out of a thing that he was not reasoned into,
we can conclude that Marxism owes its remarkable power to survive every
criticism to the fact that it is not a truth-directed but a
power-directed system of thought.€�
Sir Roger Scruton

In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 16/02/2021 10:37, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 01:10:00 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article , Tim Streater
wrote:
On 15 Feb 2021 at 18:04:21 GMT, George Miles
wrote:

they know the lies of £350 milllion saved for the NHS ,

Oh is this a lie? Do tell me in what way. I'm keen to know.

No, they dont want more chaos in the EU with more countries leaving,

Whether countries leave or not is not a matter for the EU, it's a
matter for the country concerned. More particularly, for its
population. This is obviously the case since it's wired into the
Lisbon Treaty. But I don't recall there being any text there that the
EU reserved the right to sulk about it, or could veto countries which
chose to leave, or treat them in a ****ty childish way. If you
disagree, feel free to point me at the relevant text.

But, of course, the last thing the UK wanted was to leave the EU. They
expected to still be in it (as it were) except for all the bits they
didn't like. An EU lite, designed by the UK.

Surely it comes as no surprise that the EU simply isn't having it?

It will be very interesting to see how the leave supporters treat
Scotland if it gains independence.

When. One way or another it will happen.

If it does it will be a massive boost to England, especially if there is
a hard border so the third world starving jocks cant emigrate to England.

there are plenty of us here already.





-

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 16/02/2021 11:04, charles wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 16/02/2021 10:37, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 01:10:00 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article , Tim Streater
wrote:
On 15 Feb 2021 at 18:04:21 GMT, George Miles
wrote:

they know the lies of £350 milllion saved for the NHS ,

Oh is this a lie? Do tell me in what way. I'm keen to know.

No, they dont want more chaos in the EU with more countries leaving,

Whether countries leave or not is not a matter for the EU, it's a
matter for the country concerned. More particularly, for its
population. This is obviously the case since it's wired into the
Lisbon Treaty. But I don't recall there being any text there that the
EU reserved the right to sulk about it, or could veto countries which
chose to leave, or treat them in a ****ty childish way. If you
disagree, feel free to point me at the relevant text.

But, of course, the last thing the UK wanted was to leave the EU. They
expected to still be in it (as it were) except for all the bits they
didn't like. An EU lite, designed by the UK.

Surely it comes as no surprise that the EU simply isn't having it?

It will be very interesting to see how the leave supporters treat
Scotland if it gains independence.

When. One way or another it will happen.

If it does it will be a massive boost to England, especially if there is
a hard border so the third world starving jocks cant emigrate to England.

there are plenty of us here already.


Well yes. as with Britain in the 1950s and 1960s, the best mostly emigrated.




-



--
"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow witted
man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest
thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly
persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid
before him."

- Leo Tolstoy

In article ,
charles wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 16/02/2021 10:37, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 01:10:00 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article , Tim Streater
wrote:
On 15 Feb 2021 at 18:04:21 GMT, George Miles
wrote:

they know the lies of £350 milllion saved for the NHS ,

Oh is this a lie? Do tell me in what way. I'm keen to know.

No, they dont want more chaos in the EU with more countries
leaving,

Whether countries leave or not is not a matter for the EU, it's a
matter for the country concerned. More particularly, for its
population. This is obviously the case since it's wired into the
Lisbon Treaty. But I don't recall there being any text there that
the EU reserved the right to sulk about it, or could veto
countries which chose to leave, or treat them in a ****ty childish
way. If you disagree, feel free to point me at the relevant text.

But, of course, the last thing the UK wanted was to leave the EU.
They expected to still be in it (as it were) except for all the
bits they didn't like. An EU lite, designed by the UK.

Surely it comes as no surprise that the EU simply isn't having it?

It will be very interesting to see how the leave supporters treat
Scotland if it gains independence.

When. One way or another it will happen.

If it does it will be a massive boost to England, especially if there
is a hard border so the third world starving jocks cant emigrate to
England.

there are plenty of us here already.

And subsidising the penniless Turnip through our taxes.

--
*If PROGRESS is for advancement, what does that make CONGRESS mean?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 15/02/2021 18:54, Adrian wrote:
In message , Steve Walker
writes
On 15/02/2021 18:29, Adrian wrote:
In message , Steve Walker
writes
Freight ship crews could similarly remain isolated onboard, except
in their home port

Â*Many ships don't visit their home port on a regular basis, if at
all. There have been plenty of reports of crews being stuck on ships
for weeks (months ?) after they were due to be relieved.

But still not a reason for them to disembark or mix with anyone in the
UK.

And if the ship doesn't visit the UK ?

If they are UK residents who want to have a break and return to the UK,
then there are two options. 1) they need to go straight into isolation
on returning to the UK or 2) they can show that they have not been in
contact (directly or indirectly) with people outside their crew for 10 days.

On 2021-02-16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
When. One way or another it will happen.

If it does it will be a massive boost to England, especially if there is
a hard border so the third world starving jocks cant emigrate to England.


You really are not a nice person are you?

In message , Steve Walker
writes
If they are UK residents who want to have a break and return to the UK,
then there are two options. 1) they need to go straight into isolation
on returning to the UK or 2) they can show that they have not been in
contact (directly or indirectly) with people outside their crew for 10
days.


The problem seems to be two fold. The country where the ships are won't
let the crew come ashore (even to go directly to an airport), and they
won't let the replacement crew enter the country.

Adrian
--
To Reply :
replace "diy" with "news" and reverse the domain

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DIY Forum or Google Groups, please be aware this is NOT a forum, and
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For a better method of access, please see:

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On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 18:06:15 -0000 (UTC), Jim Jackson
wrote:

On 2021-02-16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
When. One way or another it will happen.

If it does it will be a massive boost to England, especially if there is
a hard border so the third world starving jocks cant emigrate to England.


You really are not a nice person are you?

I think anyone here long enough will learn who are the 'cold and
pricklies' (like Turnip) and the 'warm and fuzzies', those of us who
try to be good / kind / considerate and actually think of others (inc
other species).

I bet there are some parallels between each basic group and the most
extreme of those who voted *for* (especially) Brexit etc.

Those who call others 'them' and don't consider them to actually be
'us'.

Often down to a certain age, arrogance, lack of empathy or compassion
etc.

Cheers, T i m

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
bert wrote:
Very simple. By the way they've handled this pandemic. Constantly too
little too late.

15m jabs too late?

120,000 deaths too late.

So you think it was possible to have zero deaths. Not even China managed
that.
--
bert

In article , T i m
writes
On 15 Feb 2021 18:16:48 GMT, Tim Streater
wrote:

On 15 Feb 2021 at 18:04:21 GMT, George Miles wrote:

they know the lies of £350 milllion saved for the NHS ,

Oh is this a lie? Do tell me in what way. I'm keen to know.

I appreciate you are only a goblin and really don't understand all
this human stuff but we have *NEVER* paid £350M/w to the EU EVER,
because a discount was agreed (the UK wanting to have special
treatment again) and so we only *ever* paid the sum after discount.

And even if the net sum was that it 'cost' us being in the EU, that's
part of the deal, that all those who can help those who can't so they
can become stronger themselves (and it's working).

And even if it was the case there is nothing in writing to say that
this '£350 million / week' would *EVER* be given to the NHS *instead*.
Exactly, so for remoaners to say it was promised is indeed a lie.

Snip the rest of the drivel
--
bert

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
On 15 Feb 2021 at 18:04:21 GMT, George Miles wrote:

they know the lies of £350 milllion saved for the NHS ,

Oh is this a lie? Do tell me in what way. I'm keen to know.

No, they dont want more chaos in the EU with more countries leaving,

Whether countries leave or not is not a matter for the EU, it's a matter
for the country concerned. More particularly, for its population. This
is obviously the case since it's wired into the Lisbon Treaty. But I
don't recall there being any text there that the EU reserved the right
to sulk about it, or could veto countries which chose to leave, or treat
them in a ****ty childish way. If you disagree, feel free to point me at
the relevant text.

But, of course, the last thing the UK wanted was to leave the EU. They
expected to still be in it (as it were) except for all the bits they
didn't like. An EU lite, designed by the UK.

Surely it comes as no surprise that the EU simply isn't having it?

It will be very interesting to see how the leave supporters treat Scotland
if it gains independence.

Scotland will not "gain independence". It may in due course decide to
withdraw from the Union it entered voluntarily.
--
bert

On 2021-02-16, bert wrote:
In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
bert wrote:
Very simple. By the way they've handled this pandemic. Constantly too
little too late.

15m jabs too late?

120,000 deaths too late.

So you think it was possible to have zero deaths. Not even China managed
that.

Who said anything about zero? That's just a stupid arguing tactic.

We are at the worse end of the country overall death rate for covid. We
can debate till the cows come home whose fault that is, or even if that
is the likely end result - remember when Italy had the worst death rate?

On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 21:09:21 -0000 (UTC), Jim Jackson
wrote:

On 2021-02-16, bert wrote:
In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
bert wrote:
Very simple. By the way they've handled this pandemic. Constantly too
little too late.

15m jabs too late?

120,000 deaths too late.

So you think it was possible to have zero deaths. Not even China managed
that.

Who said anything about zero? That's just a stupid arguing tactic.

burk / Spuke is a left brainer so uses literal / ridiculous references
like that to try to make a point and fails of course. ;-(

We are at the worse end of the country overall death rate for covid. We
can debate till the cows come home whose fault that is, or even if that
is the likely end result - remember when Italy had the worst death rate?

I do (from my mate in Italy when he couldn't even walk the dog with
his wife around their own grounds without masks and social distancing
for fear of getting spotted and questioned / fined by the Police). [1]

Cheers, T i m

[1] Because like displaying an 'L plate' when driving solo, even as a
qualified driver, they would have to 'waste their time' checking to
see if you were a couple / bubbled or not.

On 16/02/2021 21:09, Jim Jackson wrote:
On 2021-02-16, bert wrote:
In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
bert wrote:
Very simple. By the way they've handled this pandemic. Constantly too
little too late.

15m jabs too late?

120,000 deaths too late.

So you think it was possible to have zero deaths. Not even China managed
that.

Who said anything about zero? That's just a stupid arguing tactic.

We are at the worse end of the country overall death rate for covid. We
can debate till the cows come home whose fault that is, or even if that
is the likely end result - remember when Italy had the worst death rate?

We may or may not be.

I have no idea of how the figures are calculated and adjusted, but I do
know that while we were counting Covid deaths from all sources, Germany
was counting them only from hospital deaths. Unless everyone is
measuring the same way or we make corrections for it, we cannot compare
the UK death rate to other countries.

In a few years, once accurate data and corrections can be gathered, we
will know more.

It is similar to the effects on the economy. The UK comes out worst in
the EU/UK group, as the papers are keep to tell us - however, correcting
for the differing methods of calculation (they at least are already
known and can be adjusted for), the UK actually comes out slap-bang in
the middle of the list.

On 16 Feb 2021 22:17:28 GMT, Tim Streater
wrote:

snip

And even if it was the case there is nothing in writing to say that
this '£350 million / week' would *EVER* be given to the NHS *instead*.

snip burk troll denial

Indeed, apart from the fact that it was only a suggestion about what one might
do with the savings from leaving the EU (extra NHS funding just being one
obvious example),

Bwhahahah! Oh you troll / Goblins are so funny. Funny in just how
shallow / (stupidly / blinkered) obvious you are with your denial of
the fact that it was a whole scam to try to influence the gullible ...
and it *just* managed to.

I guess it was just incidental they put the whole 'Give it to the NHS
instead' BS wrote large down the side of a bus was just one of a fleet
of such busses but they simply didn't feel the need to bother with the
rest?

And why that particular *lie* (both the amount and that there would
then be a 'spare' £350M/w to give to the NHS instead', simply because
we weren't paying it to the EU)?

I see from he

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-budget

that the NHS and social care budget was some 137 billyun around 2016, and is
some 160 this year. Thats 23 bullyun a year more, or 442 million per week.

Yup?

So
even if it wasn't a promise, it's been exceeded anyway.

Bwhahaha" *IF* it wasn't a promise ... (an interesting and out of
character glimpse at the truth for once) but it was taken as a fact,
not a promise and certainly not a lie, by those who saw it *and voted
on it*. Easier to get forgiveness than permission etc.

And the covid funding
is on top of that. And as T r o l l says, it wasn't 350M anyway, perhaps
more like 250 or 200. In which case this "target" has been exceeded by an even
bigger margin.

So, we paid something way less than the "£350M/w" and got nothing back
at all? That "£350M/w" was just lost, spent, gone, with no advantages
to us (or others, and the point) at_all?

And yes, the extra is the "cost" of being in the EU. But that's just the
point, y'see.

Except what you don't (and will never be able to) see is the bigger
picture.

We don't want to pay it.

Of course *you and your kind* don't want to do anything that might
involve being part of a group or team or may help others up the
ladder. Why would you, when you can walk on them yourself, as you
climb up your ivory tower and pull up the drawbridge, forgetting who
grows and delivers your food, administer your NHS care or washes your
car.

Cheers, T i m

On 16/02/2021 21:24, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 21:09:21 -0000 (UTC), Jim Jackson
wrote:

On 2021-02-16, bert wrote:
In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
bert wrote:
Very simple. By the way they've handled this pandemic. Constantly too
little too late.

15m jabs too late?

120,000 deaths too late.

So you think it was possible to have zero deaths. Not even China managed
that.

Who said anything about zero? That's just a stupid arguing tactic.

burk / Spuke is a left brainer so uses literal / ridiculous references
like that to try to make a point and fails of course. ;-(

We are at the worse end of the country overall death rate for covid. We
can debate till the cows come home whose fault that is, or even if that
is the likely end result - remember when Italy had the worst death rate?

I do (from my mate in Italy when he couldn't even walk the dog with
his wife around their own grounds without masks and social distancing
for fear of getting spotted and questioned / fined by the Police). [1]

Cheers, T i m

[1] Because like displaying an 'L plate' when driving solo, even as a
qualified driver, they would have to 'waste their time' checking to
see if you were a couple / bubbled or not.


Who, exactly, is to blame for non-conformance?

On 16/02/2021 18:06, Jim Jackson wrote:
On 2021-02-16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
When. One way or another it will happen.

If it does it will be a massive boost to England, especially if there is
a hard border so the third world starving jocks cant emigrate to England.


You really are not a nice person are you?

I am a very nice person.

But I don't think that snowflakes need protecting from the truth. I
think they should be confronted with it.

Scotland is an economic parasite on Britain If we were independent, we
would benefit immeasurably by that. Scots are in denial of the fact that
not through any fault of theirs, it's a ****ty **** poor country with a
lot of mountains and moors and sod all else of any value whatsoever. It
had a bit of steel iron and coal at one time, but that's dead along with
shipbuilding. It briefly had a little boost from North Sea oil, but
really that's pretty much gone now and there is **** all left except
romantic dreams of Braveheart, a twice daily shot of scag in a glasgow
tenement, hatred of England and the dole.

We pay Scotland to keep their problems in Scotland, We pay them an
enormous amount. An amount that the EU would never pay and the scots
themselves could never pay.

Scotland isn't even as big populations wise as London.

Why if the scots want independence, should we stop them?

There is nothing in Scotland anyone wants least of all Scots.

The problem is that the Scots were bought for cash and that's how we got
Scotland to start with. They needed bailing out and the price was
economic and political union. Because they couldn't run themselves .

Why would we choose to do that again? 5 years of 'independence' so
called and they would be back begging for charity.

I am sick of the whining scots and wee krankie and her slick lies.
Blames her own total failure to achieve anything, on England. Well if
that is what the Scots believe they can **** off and die in thousands
under 'independence' a pathetic little republic, globally isolated with
less people than Libya, no natural resources, and led by political
carpetbaggers?

Why wouldn't we put a damned hard border down hadrian's wall?




--
"Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and
higher education positively fortifies it."

- Stephen Vizinczey

On 16/02/2021 21:09, Jim Jackson wrote:
On 2021-02-16, bert wrote:
In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
bert wrote:
Very simple. By the way they've handled this pandemic. Constantly too
little too late.

15m jabs too late?

120,000 deaths too late.

So you think it was possible to have zero deaths. Not even China managed
that.

Who said anything about zero? That's just a stupid arguing tactic.

We are at the worse end of the country overall death rate for covid. We
can debate till the cows come home whose fault that is, or even if that
is the likely end result - remember when Italy had the worst death rate?

And the stupid will put it all down to policy.

COVID reminds us we are a globally connected nation.

That has a risk attached

Rightly or wrongly we are after the usual shambolic response of any
government to a threat it didn't invent for the purposes of
electioneering and virtue signalling, delivering a higher per capita
vaccination rate than anyone else except IIRC Israel.

That actually is not bad going. If it makes a difference, we will be
ahead of the game

If not, well I don't think anyone could know that yet


--
€œPuritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.€�

H.L. Mencken, A Mencken Chrestomathy

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
On 14 Feb 2021 at 19:44:43 GMT, "Fred" wrote:



"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
On 14 Feb 2021 at 17:48:26 GMT, "tim..." wrote:



"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
The issue is why you would think "BoJo and pals are perfectly
capable of
bringing this country to its knees without help from the EU",

Very simple. By the way they've handled this pandemic. Constantly
too
little too late.

Since you've already mentioned NZ, another island state, look at how
they've handled it.

NZ is not the slightest bit comparable with the UK (from a Covid pov)

It is geographically the same size as the UK with one tenth the
population

UK is closer to 13 times population.

Its nearest trading partner is 2000 miles away (yes I was surprised it
was that far too)

consequently it can close its borders and be 100% self sufficient if
it needs to be

If it does need to trade it can make sure that it is all funnelled
through one port with strict rules about quarantining the crew

If we closed our borders to 100% of imports, the population would
starve

And NZ doesn't have a major transport hub (Heathrow) with people
wanting to
transit.

The small population in a similar land area is what is the major
advantage.

But clearly isnt the reason that china did vastly better than the UK.

And it has a major transport hub too.

That's the advantage of being a totalitarian country: anyone who disagrees
doesn't just get a fine, they are thrown in the slammer. Wuhan had hard
lockdown with roadblocks.

the advantage of being a totalitarian country is

you can fiddle the figures and no-one will be able to prove otherwise

HTH

tim