I've a puncture on a front tyre, it's not in the legal repair area so
will need changing.

I can't decide whether to do both. that's the advice isn't it (from tyre
sellers )

Or shall I take it somewhere shifty and have a tube put in?

On 27/01/2021 10:29, R D S wrote:
I've a puncture on a front tyre, it's not in the legal repair area so
will need changing.

I can't decide whether to do both. that's the advice isn't it (from tyre
sellers )

Or shall I take it somewhere shifty and have a tube put in?
It will still fail an MOT


--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

I guess that depends on the wear of the tread area and whether the different
dynamic will affect handling. Surely by now somebody tested this idea.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"R D S" wrote in message
...
I've a puncture on a front tyre, it's not in the legal repair area so will
need changing.

I can't decide whether to do both. that's the advice isn't it (from tyre
sellers )

Or shall I take it somewhere shifty and have a tube put in?

It depends how obvious it is I suppose, I'd say that when I was very young
and my father was alive some vehicles did not like different aged tyres on
the front inducing weird vibrations in the steering at certain speeds. Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 27/01/2021 10:29, R D S wrote:
I've a puncture on a front tyre, it's not in the legal repair area so
will need changing.

I can't decide whether to do both. that's the advice isn't it (from tyre
sellers )

Or shall I take it somewhere shifty and have a tube put in?
It will still fail an MOT


--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as foolish,
and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

On 27/01/2021 10:29, R D S wrote:
I've a puncture on a front tyre, it's not in the legal repair area so
will need changing.

I can't decide whether to do both. that's the advice isn't it (from tyre
sellers )

Or shall I take it somewhere shifty and have a tube put in?

After my last puncture I saw a video on tyre plugs, DIY, rather than the
internal patch that I think some repair shops use.

Something like this, (not the one I actually watched but similar)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCwWPlaghfs

On 27/01/2021 10:29, R D S wrote:
I've a puncture on a front tyre, it's not in the legal repair area so
will need changing.

I can't decide whether to do both. that's the advice isn't it (from tyre
sellers )

Or shall I take it somewhere shifty and have a tube put in?

OMG no tubes....used to do that years ago....not a good idea

On 27/01/2021 10:29, R D S wrote:
I've a puncture on a front tyre, it's not in the legal repair area so
will need changing.

I can't decide whether to do both. that's the advice isn't it (from tyre
sellers )

Or shall I take it somewhere shifty and have a tube put in?
going abroad some countries demand same make and style on same axle...

On 27/01/2021 11:34, Jimmy Stewart ... wrote:
On 27/01/2021 10:29, R D S wrote:
I've a puncture on a front tyre, it's not in the legal repair area so will need changing.

I can't decide whether to do both. that's the advice isn't it (from tyre sellers )

Or shall I take it somewhere shifty and have a tube put in?
going abroad some countries demand same make and style on same axle...

Has anyone ever had their tyres inspected that closely when going abroad? I've visited countries in winter like Germany and Austria where they require winter tyres but have never had mine inspected, so always wondered whether the extra cost and bother was really worth-while.

--
Clive Page

On 27/01/2021 11:30, Pancho wrote:
After my last puncture I saw a video on tyre plugs, DIY, rather than the
internal patch that I think some repair shops use.


Local place plug them, but this is too close to the sidewall.

On 27/01/2021 11:37, Clive Page wrote:
Has anyone ever had their tyres inspected that closely when going
abroad?Â*Â* I've visited countries in winter like Germany and Austria
where they require winter tyres but have never had mine inspected, so
always wondered whether the extra cost and bother was really worth-while.

It's certainly not something i'm going to worry about in the immediate
future.

In the old days we were of course told never to mix a radial with a
crossply on an axle.

Nowadays there is no need to discard a sound tyre with lots of tread
when replacing the other one but if you are concerned why not just buy
the same tyre.

What you could do is move any mismatched tyres to the rear and keep two
of the same on the front.

On 27/01/2021 11:50, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 10:29:44 +0000, R D S wrote:

I've a puncture on a front tyre, it's not in the legal repair area so
will need changing.

I can't decide whether to do both. that's the advice isn't it (from tyre
sellers )

Or shall I take it somewhere shifty and have a tube put in?

When I was at uni very many years ago, a group of us went on a camping
tour of Europe during the summer vac. We had a couple of cars, and
because tubeless tyres were just beginning to come on the market, and
no one was really confident of their performance, one of the car
owners put tubes into their tubeless tyres, to be on the safe side,
belt and braces etc. Big mistake. They had several bursts, supposedly
due to friction between the inner tube and the casing of the tubeless
tyre, the latter not being designed to take tubes. Eventually they
took the tubes out altogether, and it was all OK after that.


Interesting. That isn't happening then.

The tyres aren't massively worn so it's paining me to replace one let
alone the pair.

In skint days of old there was a garage i'd go to that would stick a
tube in anything for a tenner. In hindsight a poor idea but moot if you
haven't £50 to spare.

The local garage/tyre place I use charge about £22 to fix a puncture
these days but i'm sure this one isn't repairable. They were taken over
by a chain and i've never been in the place since without a battle about
whether to do the tracking for another 50 quid.

The falsest economy ever though was 4 part worns from a seedy backstreet
place, they didn't bother balancing them and they never sealed properly
against the rims so they were in constant need of inflation!

On 27/01/2021 11:58, John Smith wrote:

What you could do is move any mismatched tyres to the rear and keep two
of the same on the front.

Yes, i've done that in the past but forgotten, good idea. Probably
better tread on the rears too, we replaced all 4 at once.

R D S wrote in :


The tyres aren't massively worn so it's paining me to replace one let
alone the pair.

If it's one worn from say 8mm new to 6mm now then I'd have no qualms just
changing one.

More difference then that and I'd look at the tread on the rears with a
view to moving them to the front as a wear balanced pair.

I would only repleace with a matching make and type.

If the tyres are at least reasonably common types, do you not have
someone nearby that does "part worn" tyres? *
Match the brand, type and (maybe) amount of tread and there's zero
issues...

*There are sevral such places around here, one of the few perks of
living close to a big city I guess.

On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 10:29:44 +0000, R D S wrote:

I've a puncture on a front tyre, it's not in the legal repair area so
will need changing.

I can't decide whether to do both. that's the advice isn't it (from tyre
sellers )

Or shall I take it somewhere shifty and have a tube put in?

Do you have a spare tyre?

If you do, then one option is to replace the spare with the nearly new
tyre and then get a new pair on the front.

I would guess that it also very much depends on how much read is left on
the sound front tyre.
If it is over 80% (say) of a new tyre then it seems reasonable to just
replace the damaged one.

You could also replace both front tyres but retain the good one (if you
have storage space) against future eventualities.

Cheers


Dave R


--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 27/01/2021 10:29, R D S wrote:
I've a puncture on a front tyre, it's not in the legal repair area so
will need changing.

I can't decide whether to do both. that's the advice isn't it (from tyre
sellers )

Or shall I take it somewhere shifty and have a tube put in?

I have lost several front nearside tyres to road debris in the last few
years. I've not had any problems replacing just that tyre, although the
other front tyre always had a good tread depth and I always buy the same
tyre make and type.

--
Colin Bignell

On 27/01/2021 11:17, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:

It depends how obvious it is I suppose, I'd say that when I was very young
and my father was alive some vehicles did not like different aged tyres on
the front inducing weird vibrations in the steering at certain speeds. Brian

That's usually because the front wheels haven't been balanced.

--
Max Demian

On 27/01/2021 12:31, David wrote:

Do you have a spare tyre?

No,
Just a can of gubbins which I assume is as old as the car, 8 years.

Given we're virtually under house (and work, a mere 1.5 mile away)
arrest for the foreseeable I wonder about chucking that in and see what
happens.

On 27/01/2021 11:38, R D S wrote:
On 27/01/2021 11:30, Pancho wrote:
After my last puncture I saw a video on tyre plugs, DIY, rather than
the internal patch that I think some repair shops use.


Local place plug them, but this is too close to the sidewall.

Close to the sidewall can still legally be repaired, but it requires hot
vulcanisation, which most repair places can't offer.

If they are cheapish tyres, change both.

If they are both nearly new, not too expensive tyres, change the one.

If they are both well worn, change both.

If they are both fairly new and expensive, then it might be worth
pursuing the vulcanisation option.

Don't even think of using an inner tube. Modern, tubeless tyres are not
made smooth enough inside and can wear through. They can also go
suddenly - a friend ended up going backwards into a motorway barrier.
Luckily only the car and barrier were damaged and it was late at night,
with little traffic.

On 27/01/2021 11:37, Clive Page wrote:
On 27/01/2021 11:34, Jimmy Stewart ... wrote:
On 27/01/2021 10:29, R D S wrote:
I've a puncture on a front tyre, it's not in the legal repair area so
will need changing.

I can't decide whether to do both. that's the advice isn't it (from
tyre sellers )

Or shall I take it somewhere shifty and have a tube put in?
going abroad some countries demand same make and style on same axle...

Has anyone ever had their tyres inspected that closely when going
abroad?Â*Â* I've visited countries in winter like Germany and Austria
where they require winter tyres but have never had mine inspected, so
always wondered whether the extra cost and bother was really worth-while.

None of them require cars visiting the country to have matching tyres,
only that tyre places replace tyres in pairs.

There are some mountain passes where a requirement for winter tyres or
even chains is signposted and failure to adhere to those can result in
fines.

IIRC, Germany's requirement for winter tyres is not absolute. Germans
are "required" to change their tyres for winter or summer, but if they
fail to do so, they are simply assumed to be at fault in any accident.

On 27/01/2021 12:19, R D S wrote:
On 27/01/2021 11:58, John Smith wrote:

What you could do is move any mismatched tyres to the rear and keep
two of the same on the front.

Yes, i've done that in the past but forgotten, good idea. Probably
better tread on the rears too, we replaced all 4 at once.

Don't forget your spare, if you have one. Mine is a full-sized spare, on
a matching wheel and about 1/3 worn. So ideal to replace a part worn
damaged one and the new could become a spare.

On 27/01/2021 12:19, R D S wrote:
On 27/01/2021 11:58, John Smith wrote:

What you could do is move any mismatched tyres to the rear and keep
two of the same on the front.

Yes, i've done that in the past but forgotten, good idea. Probably
better tread on the rears too, we replaced all 4 at once.


On front wheel drive the recommendation is to have the better (tread)
tyres on the back.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 27/01/2021 13:32, alan_m wrote:

On front wheel drive the recommendation is to have the better (tread)
tyres on the back.


Is it, i'd like to see the logic behind that.

Instinct would be to have the better ones where the braking and steering
happens.

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On 27/01/2021 11:38, R D S wrote:
On 27/01/2021 11:30, Pancho wrote:
After my last puncture I saw a video on tyre plugs, DIY, rather than the
internal patch that I think some repair shops use.


Local place plug them, but this is too close to the sidewall.

Close to the sidewall can still legally be repaired, but it requires hot
vulcanisation, which most repair places can't offer.

Why is it that most tyres (in my experience) develop punctures close to the
edge of the tread (where they can't be repaired) rather than in the middle
of the tread (where they can be)?

It's not that I've conveniently forgotten about "the majority" of punctures
which *can* be repaired. Of the various punctures that I've had over the
years, I'd say that about 3/4 have been unrepairable at the edge of the
tread.

That's leaving out punctures in the sidewall - like when an oncoming tractor
pulled onto his wrong side of the road (after previously being stationary,
which I interpreted as "he's seen me and is waiting for me as he should")
and forced me to swerve onto the verge, ripping the sidewall of a tyre that
had about 50 miles use on it: I was not best pleased at that, and I didn't
get his number to claim off him.

On 27/01/2021 10:29, R D S wrote:
I've a puncture on a front tyre, it's not in the legal repair area so
will need changing.

I can't decide whether to do both. that's the advice isn't it (from tyre
sellers )

Or shall I take it somewhere shifty and have a tube put in?

If the other front is significantly worn, I'd replace both, and scrap
whichever is the worst of your remaining 3/4 tyres. If the other front
is less than say 25% worn, I'd probably leave it on.

On 27/01/2021 13:40, R D S wrote:
On 27/01/2021 13:32, alan_m wrote:

On front wheel drive the recommendation is to have the better (tread)
tyres on the back.


Is it, i'd like to see the logic behind that.

Instinct would be to have the better ones where the braking and steering
happens.

I think the logic is that, on or near the limit, if the rears lose grip
first, backing off the throttle will make things worse, but if the
fronts lose grip first, backing off the throttle will help to regain grip.

But yes, under normal conditions, you would instinctively want the
driven and steering wheels to have the most grip.

--
Biggles

On 27/01/2021 13:40, R D S wrote:
On 27/01/2021 13:32, alan_m wrote:

On front wheel drive the recommendation is to have the better (tread)
tyres on the back.


Is it, i'd like to see the logic behind that.

Instinct would be to have the better ones where the braking and steering
happens.

Far better to have the front begin to let go, where you can ease off and
get it back under control, than to have the back end pass you and you
have no control.

It's the same reason that the rear brakes of home-built cars are tested
to ensure that they don't lock up before the front wheels on heavy
braking - production cars are designed from the outset for that.

Pancho wrote:

After my last puncture I saw a video on tyre plugs, DIY, rather than the
internal patch that I think some repair shops use.

Something like this, (not the one I actually watched but similar)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCwWPlaghfs

Yeah I bought one of those sticky string kits, but when it came down to
it, I thought it looked a bit "too redneck"

On 27/01/2021 10:29, R D S wrote:
I've a puncture on a front tyre, it's not in the legal repair area so
will need changing.

I can't decide whether to do both. that's the advice isn't it (from tyre
sellers )

Or shall I take it somewhere shifty and have a tube put in?


Legally you can fit different makes of tyres provided they are the same
size and construction. If the "good" tyre isn't very worn I would just
replace the punctured one with the closest in tread pattern I could find.

https://www.justtyres.co.uk/pages/tyres-and-the-law

I have had this done by reputable dealers recently.

I would not use a "part worn" as you don't know how they have been
maltreated. Putting a tube in isn't legal as the problem is the
structure of the tyre could been damaged. If you were to have an
accident then your insurance company might be unhappy...

Dave

"nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 27/01/2021 10:29, R D S wrote:
I've a puncture on a front tyre, it's not in the legal repair area so
will need changing.

I can't decide whether to do both. that's the advice isn't it (from tyre
sellers )

Or shall I take it somewhere shifty and have a tube put in?

I have lost several front nearside tyres to road debris in the last few
years.

Mine havent been just the front nearside, most have
been the drivers side, and it was kerb strike one time, my
fault, and a kangaroo tail I ran over with the other one.

I've not had any problems replacing just that tyre,

Me neither. But it presumably varys with
how good the design of the car steering is.

although the other front tyre always had a good tread depth

Mine didnt always.

and I always buy the same tyre make and type.

I dont, I use what they have thats cheapest.

The ABS works so well and we dont get black ice or
snow either, so I dont need high performance tyres.

The roads can get a bit slick from tree stuff in droughts
but the ABS handles that fine with crash stops.

On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 04:47:50 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote

I guess that depends on the wear of the tread area and whether the
different dynamic will affect handling. Surely by now somebody tested this
idea.

Trouble is that varys with the design of the front end.

With the original Golf, you could quite literally have
one wheel off the bitumen in the dirt, jam your foot
on the brakes as hard as you could, with no hands on the
steering wheel at all and it would pull up in a straight line.

Because the projection of the vertical
axle would hit the road inside the tyre.

"R D S" wrote in message
...
I've a puncture on a front tyre, it's not in the legal repair area so
will need changing.

I can't decide whether to do both. that's the advice isn't it (from tyre
sellers )

Or shall I take it somewhere shifty and have a tube put in?

On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 10:29:44 +0000, R D S wrote:

I've a puncture on a front tyre, it's not in the legal repair area so
will need changing.

I can't decide whether to do both. that's the advice isn't it (from tyre
sellers )

What is a shame here is how many 'perfectly good' tyres end up getting
dumped when they needn't be.

1) You drive over something and it either goes straight in and stays
there (but not causing a leak as it doesn't penetrate the inner skin)
.... or stays there till you hear it and pull it out (still not causing
a leak), or comes out (still not causing a leak).

You didn't realise you drove over something but may have damage to the
structure of the tyre but because you haven't had a puncture, you
carry on until:

a) The then tyre fails, potentially hiding the damage
b) The damage is spotted and repaired or replaced
c) The damage isn't spotted and the tyre replaced when worn out.

2) You drive over something and it either goes straight in and stays
there, not causing a leak (even though it has penetrated the inner
layer, see a, b and c above), stays there but causing a slow leak,
meaning:

d) you carry on driving on it and assuming no TPS / warning, do so at
speed without noticing, cause the tyre to heat up excessively and
eventually blow out.

e) and / or you notice it's low / flat the next time you look at that
tyre or notice it when driving, in which case you:

f) Pump it up and drive on it some more
g) Replace it with the spare and get it repaired or replaced.

or stays there till you hear it and pull it out (causing a leak), then
either f or g above.

Now, the repair in the case of say a panel pin making a clean hole
though to the inside of the tyre (and it not compromising the
structure of the tyre at all) simply requires some sort of means of
stopping the air getting out. Tyres often suffer all sorts of cuts and
holes in the treaded area that are no deeper or more dangerous than
the tread itself.

The 'problem with them repairing a leak is the amount of flex and
therefore delamination risk of any air-blocking patch that may be
vulcanised / glued to the inside. If such a patch should come loose
then the risk is no different / greater than when you got that
puncture in the first place.

The flex in the tyre is greatest near the sidewall / tread area and
hence why most places won't fix a leak there, not because doing so is
in itself dangerous (as in compromising the structure of the tyre) but
simply because it's unlikely to last. The issue isn't the goal, it's
the (typical) process used.

Now what if there was a way of blocking the hole to stop the air
leaking out that couldn't become delaminated because it wasn't stuck
over the hole but was stuck in it, from the inside?

Now we know they do that with the 'mushroom' repairs but that often /
generally involves drilling the hole out by quite an amount,
potentially then doing structural damage (cutting one or more of the
cords) in the process.

If a hole did expose one of the cords / belts and it happens to be
steel, a patch on the inside can prevent air getting out but not water
getting in and potentially rusting a steel cord / belt, causing it /
them to fail later on. Again, an 'alternative' repair could fill the
entire hole with a material that cures with heat and time and prevents
both the air getting out and water getting in.

If a larger object penetrates the tyre it could do damage without
causing any air loss (even if it goes right though). All could be well
till the object is thrown out and then the tyre could suffer a rapid
deflation and then (depending on the speed , load and distance
traveled), cause a complete tyre failure.

It's my personal preference (and has been for 20+ years now) to treat
all my tyres with a semi-liquid pre-puncture gloop (that is self
balancing, non corrosive, water soluble in it's uncured state and not
anything like most similar products or the 'emergency' get-you-home
cans) that seal any puncture up to a reasonable size and not on the
sidewall, in every case so far for the remaining life of the tyre and
*before* you will have done any damage by running the tyre when
partially deflated / deflating.

Whilst it is designed to be used pre-puncture, I have used it many
times as a post puncture repair and in no instance has the tyre leaked
further or had any other issues, often saving a perfectly good tyre
because the 'system' hasn't yet caught up to the fact that such things
exist that do work and are safe.

And why would the tyre companies push such a solution versus selling
you a new tyre?

Personally, I would much rather risk the instance when such a repair
makes any situation worse, over the though of me, my family or anyone
else being put at unnecessary risk from the more likely risks when
dealing with the consequences of a puncture.

This type of solution (excuse the pun) is already available
off-the-shelf via offering like the Continental 'Contiseal' range:

https://www.continental-tyres.co.uk/...gies/contiseal

.... and we enjoy the same level of protection from a product called
'Punctureseal'.

https://www.punctureseal.com/

That's not 'and products like it with similar names', it's
specifically that and only that product (although I'm sure others may
exist).

This includes our trailers, motorcyles, cars, vans, mobility scooters
and other peoples ride on mowers, wheelbarrows and the like.

I'm not advocating it's use over a spare wheel, I'm reflecting it's
use to prevent (in most cases) having to use the spare wheel.

Cheers, T i m

On 27/01/2021 13:41, NY wrote:
Why is it that most tyres (in my experience) develop punctures close to
the edge of the tread (where they can't be repaired) rather than in the
middle of the tread (where they can be)?

I had two 255/35R19 Y tyres on the old car that had punctures in the
centre of the tread. Simple fixes. Then I a screw go in right on the
edge of the sidewall of the latest car when I had had it for only 4
days. Ruined a 255/40R18Y RF that had only 2250 miles on it. Not a cheap
replacement.

On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 06:42:56 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile sociopath's latest troll**** unread

--
addressing nym-shifting senile Rodent:
"You on the other hand are a heavyweight bull****ter who demonstrates
his particular prowess at it every day."
MID:

In article ,
mm0fmf wrote:
On 27/01/2021 13:41, NY wrote:
Why is it that most tyres (in my experience) develop punctures close to
the edge of the tread (where they can't be repaired) rather than in the
middle of the tread (where they can be)?

I had two 255/35R19 Y tyres on the old car that had punctures in the
centre of the tread. Simple fixes. Then I a screw go in right on the
edge of the sidewall of the latest car when I had had it for only 4
days. Ruined a 255/40R18Y RF that had only 2250 miles on it. Not a cheap
replacement.

I had to buy a tyre to get through my MOT. All the others had been changed
because of punctures. It was cheaper than the one I had to buy last year.
Same tyre, same dealer. but still £145.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 27/01/2021 10:29, R D S wrote:
I've a puncture on a front tyre, it's not in the legal repair area so
will need changing.

I can't decide whether to do both. that's the advice isn't it (from tyre
sellers )

Or shall I take it somewhere shifty and have a tube put in?



One car I had had 4 alloys where the spare was a steel.

I found myself in a similar situation so I bought a new rim, well 2 in
fact from eBay.

I know you can't keep your spare on your car, but if you can store one
then you can either change in pairs, or in your current case, swap with
a good spare without discarding a part worn tyre.

On 27/01/2021 20:19, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 10:29:44 +0000, R D S wrote:

I've a puncture on a front tyre, it's not in the legal repair area so
will need changing.

I can't decide whether to do both. that's the advice isn't it (from tyre
sellers )

What is a shame here is how many 'perfectly good' tyres end up getting
dumped when they needn't be.

Part worn tyres are worth money, they're rarely 'dumped'.

In article , "Brian Gaff (Sofa)"
writes
It depends how obvious it is I suppose, I'd say that when I was very young
and my father was alive some vehicles did not like different aged tyres on
the front inducing weird vibrations in the steering at certain speeds. Brian

I had a weird experience with my Jeep Cherokee when I put 2 new tyres on
the front. It wouldn't drop out the diff lock. I had to drive slowly to
the dealer who then explained that the way out of it was to put one new
tyre on each axle - or buy 2 more new tyres.
--
bert