Quick little electronics hack project for those interested:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/..._serial_to_USB

(early draft - so typos may abound!)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/..._serial_to_USB

My wacom is a USB version, but same as you discovered, using a tablet
didn't turn me from a scrawler into an artist, so it sits in the bottom
of a drawer somewhere.

On 18/12/2020 11:22, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/..._serial_to_USB

My wacom is a USB version, but same as you discovered, using a tablet
didn't turn me from a scrawler into an artist, so it sits in the bottom
of a drawer somewhere.

Same experience as Andy.

But your project *really* makes me feel inadequate: decades ago I used
to do something like the equivalent of stuff like that. I remember
soldering a rotary switch to the jumpers of a PDP-8 board that cost more
than a year's salary. Carefully.

And Vero wire! That really takes me back. I had a contractor friend who
had a home-worker who could put 1500 wires on a prototype wire-wrap
board without a single mistake.

On Friday, December 18, 2020 at 10:25:06 AM UTC, John Rumm wrote:
Quick little electronics hack project for those interested:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/..._serial_to_USB

(early draft - so typos may abound!)

Thanks John, I can see me wanting to do a project like that at some point.
I think I have seen the Teensy project before but good to have a link to it.

Cheers
Jon N

On Fri, 18 Dec 2020 10:25:02 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Quick little electronics hack project for those interested:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/..._serial_to_USB

(early draft - so typos may abound!)

Nice one. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 18/12/2020 10:25:02, John Rumm wrote:
Quick little electronics hack project for those interested:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/..._serial_to_USB

(early draft - so typos may abound!)

I use a Belkin RS232 to USB converter as you can still get drivers for
these.

If Windows 10 sees a USB COM port it will naturally use its own drivers.
Prior to Windows 10 COM ports were a nightmare, hence the FTDI debacle.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ftdi-a...silent-update/

It might be worth plugging in your old converters into a Windows 10
machine to see if they are recognised before binning them.

The MC145406 changes from TTL levels to RS232 levels. You can get very
cheap TTL level RS232 USB converters though they don't always come with
all the signals I believe you might need.

Nice project.

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 18/12/2020 10:25:02, John Rumm wrote:
Quick little electronics hack project for those interested:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/..._serial_to_USB

(early draft - so typos may abound!)

I use a Belkin RS232 to USB converter as you can still get drivers for
these.

If Windows 10 sees a USB COM port it will naturally use its own drivers.
Prior to Windows 10 COM ports were a nightmare, hence the FTDI debacle.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ftdi-a...silent-update/

It might be worth plugging in your old converters into a Windows 10
machine to see if they are recognised before binning them.

The MC145406 changes from TTL levels to RS232 levels. You can get very
cheap TTL level RS232 USB converters though they don't always come with
all the signals I believe you might need.

Nice project.

Many aftermarket car ECUs (MegaSquirt, etc) have an RS 232 port. And
virtually no laptops (used for tuning) have them these days. I've not had
a problem with my USB to serial adaptor on changing to Win10. Although
there are some around that don't work with MS at all - a different chipset.

--
*WHERE DO FOREST RANGERS GO TO "GET AWAY FROM IT ALL?"

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 18/12/2020 13:39:03, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 18/12/2020 10:25:02, John Rumm wrote:
Quick little electronics hack project for those interested:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/..._serial_to_USB

(early draft - so typos may abound!)

I use a Belkin RS232 to USB converter as you can still get drivers for
these.

If Windows 10 sees a USB COM port it will naturally use its own drivers.
Prior to Windows 10 COM ports were a nightmare, hence the FTDI debacle.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ftdi-a...silent-update/

It might be worth plugging in your old converters into a Windows 10
machine to see if they are recognised before binning them.

The MC145406 changes from TTL levels to RS232 levels. You can get very
cheap TTL level RS232 USB converters though they don't always come with
all the signals I believe you might need.

Nice project.

Many aftermarket car ECUs (MegaSquirt, etc) have an RS 232 port. And
virtually no laptops (used for tuning) have them these days. I've not had
a problem with my USB to serial adaptor on changing to Win10. Although
there are some around that don't work with MS at all - a different chipset.

I'm guessing the ones that don't work don't conform to the USB VCM USB
protocols and have a bespoke driver.

On 18/12/2020 13:13, Fredxx wrote:
On 18/12/2020 10:25:02, John Rumm wrote:
Quick little electronics hack project for those interested:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/..._serial_to_USB

(early draft - so typos may abound!)

I use a Belkin RS232 to USB converter as you can still get drivers for
these.

Yup the RS232 to USB converters work fine (ish - I have had some
chipsets that worked and some that did not in the past), but the Wacom
drivers that do serial tablets don't seem to want to play anymore, and
the USB drivers dont expect to see a serial tablet on USB. So getting
the USB interface is only part of the problem - you also need to make
the tablet appear to the windows driver as a more recent USB model.

If Windows 10 sees a USB COM port it will naturally use its own drivers.
Prior to Windows 10 COM ports were a nightmare, hence the FTDI debacle.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ftdi-a...silent-update/


It might be worth plugging in your old converters into a Windows 10
machine to see if they are recognised before binning them.

Was not planning to bin them... I have other things that can talk RS232.

The MC145406 changes from TTL levels to RS232 levels. You can get very
cheap TTL level RS232 USB converters though they don't always come with
all the signals I believe you might need.

I would suggest a Max232 if you want a simple to use driver, since it
will run off a single sided 5V supply.

Nice project.

Well I had had the bits sat there for a couple of months - just needed
an appropriately shaped tuit! So thought I would give it a try.

ISTR there is another much smaller Wacom floating about - I might have a
go at that next, since I have another Teensy.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 18/12/2020 11:51, newshound wrote:
On 18/12/2020 11:22, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/..._serial_to_USB

My wacom is a USB version, but same as you discovered, using a tablet
didn't turn me from a scrawler into an artist, so it sits in the
bottom of a drawer somewhere.

Same experience as Andy.

But your project *really* makes me feel inadequate: decades ago I used
to do something like the equivalent of stuff like that. I remember
soldering a rotary switch to the jumpers of a PDP-8 board that cost more
than a year's salary. Carefully.

:-)

Yup I remember a certain "pucker" moment making mods on a double
eurocard sized 386 processor board... with all milspec components, a
deep multi layer board, and this was in 1988 when even the retail 386
was silly money!

(IIRC the card was worth £20K in 1988 money!)

And Vero wire! That really takes me back. I had a contractor friend who
had a home-worker who could put 1500 wires on a prototype wire-wrap
board without a single mistake.

I remember working on a prototype CPU card that someone had wired up
with Dagewire - It was an enamelled copper wire based prototype system
that used little IDC terminals on the bottom of a matrix board. It was
fine at first, until you had to make changes, and it becomes
progressively less reliable with time! It made doing hardware software
integration fun as you always had to work out if the software is wrong,
the hardware design wrong, the build wrong, or do you just have yet
another loose connection!

(vero wire would have probably been better!)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 18/12/2020 13:39:03, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 18/12/2020 10:25:02, John Rumm wrote:
Quick little electronics hack project for those interested:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/..._serial_to_USB

(early draft - so typos may abound!)

I use a Belkin RS232 to USB converter as you can still get drivers
for these.

If Windows 10 sees a USB COM port it will naturally use its own
drivers. Prior to Windows 10 COM ports were a nightmare, hence the
FTDI debacle.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ftdi-a...silent-update/

It might be worth plugging in your old converters into a Windows 10
machine to see if they are recognised before binning them.

The MC145406 changes from TTL levels to RS232 levels. You can get
very cheap TTL level RS232 USB converters though they don't always
come with all the signals I believe you might need.

Nice project.

Many aftermarket car ECUs (MegaSquirt, etc) have an RS 232 port. And
virtually no laptops (used for tuning) have them these days. I've not
had a problem with my USB to serial adaptor on changing to Win10.
Although there are some around that don't work with MS at all - a
different chipset.

I'm guessing the ones that don't work don't conform to the USB VCM USB
protocols and have a bespoke driver.

IIRC from the MegaSquirt forum, it is to do with the 'make' of chipset in
the adaptor. I'll look up the name of the one that seems to work best if
you want.

I do have a USB to serial adaptor that won't work with MS - but Windows
doesn't seem to object to it.

--
*I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 18/12/2020 11:22, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/..._serial_to_USB

My wacom is a USB version, but same as you discovered, using a tablet
didn't turn me from a scrawler into an artist, so it sits in the bottom
of a drawer somewhere.

I've got an old Wacom Bamboo tablet which I used to use with my XP
desktop. Unfortunately, I changed to a laptop in 2009, and, like yours,
the Wacom remains disused in a cupboard.

Now if John wants to work out how to use the Wacom's stylus with my
laptop's touchpad, I'm all ears. And I'm all sticky fingers too, as when
I dug the stylus out of the bag it's been in for 8 years the whole
surface was gooey and sticky. Some isopropanol removed it.

--

Jeff

On 18/12/2020 14:26, John Rumm wrote:

I remember working on a prototype CPU card that someone had wired up
with Dagewire - It was an enamelled copper wire based prototype system
that used little IDC terminals on the bottom of a matrix board. It was
fine at first, until you had to make changes, and it becomes
progressively less reliable with time! It made doing hardware software
integration fun as you always had to work out if the software is wrong,
the hardware design wrong, the build wrong, or do you just have yet
another loose connection!

(vero wire would have probably been better!)


Fond memories of long nights of solderless wire wrapping, 8 bit DIL CPUs
on verocards. 6809 style. Don't believe anyone does that anymore

For giggles I have a few 486SX25 CPUs stashed. I've wondered if I should
dig out the gear and wire something up for old times sake of seeing
homebrewed clock cycles again.

--
Adrian C

On 18/12/2020 14:27, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 18/12/2020 13:39:03, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 18/12/2020 10:25:02, John Rumm wrote:
Quick little electronics hack project for those interested:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/..._serial_to_USB

(early draft - so typos may abound!)

I use a Belkin RS232 to USB converter as you can still get drivers
for these.

If Windows 10 sees a USB COM port it will naturally use its own
drivers. Prior to Windows 10 COM ports were a nightmare, hence the
FTDI debacle.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ftdi-a...silent-update/

It might be worth plugging in your old converters into a Windows 10
machine to see if they are recognised before binning them.

The MC145406 changes from TTL levels to RS232 levels. You can get
very cheap TTL level RS232 USB converters though they don't always
come with all the signals I believe you might need.

Nice project.

Many aftermarket car ECUs (MegaSquirt, etc) have an RS 232 port. And
virtually no laptops (used for tuning) have them these days. I've not
had a problem with my USB to serial adaptor on changing to Win10.
Although there are some around that don't work with MS at all - a
different chipset.

I'm guessing the ones that don't work don't conform to the USB VCM USB
protocols and have a bespoke driver.

IIRC from the MegaSquirt forum, it is to do with the 'make' of chipset in
the adaptor. I'll look up the name of the one that seems to work best if
you want.

I now use my own micro to do the conversion and keep the signals in the
TTL domain rather than the inverted +/-9V

I do have a USB to serial adaptor that won't work with MS - but Windows
doesn't seem to object to it.

The adaptor might not have all the signals you use. Apart from the Rx
and Tx signals there a number of others used for handshakes. For some
applications they can be repurposed to reset or program your unit.

Not all adapters are the same and I suppose can be the reversed gender.
The fact it is recognised by windows means the protocol conforms to the
USB VCP/COM port rules. The hardware side might not conform to standard
RS232 or relies on a specialist driver to drive these signals appropriately.

On 18/12/2020 14:17, John Rumm wrote:
On 18/12/2020 13:13, Fredxx wrote:
On 18/12/2020 10:25:02, John Rumm wrote:
Quick little electronics hack project for those interested:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/..._serial_to_USB

(early draft - so typos may abound!)

I use a Belkin RS232 to USB converter as you can still get drivers for
these.

Yup the RS232 to USB converters work fine (ish - I have had some
chipsets that worked and some that did not in the past), but the Wacom
drivers that do serial tablets don't seem to want to play anymore, and
the USB drivers dont expect to see a serial tablet on USB. So getting
the USB interface is only part of the problem - you also need to make
the tablet appear to the windows driver as a more recent USB model.

I'm surprised this is an issue where you're using Windows 10?

The Windows drivers should provide a COM port and any application should
be oblivious to whether its talking directly to a serial COM port or a
USB device emulating a COM port.

If Windows 10 sees a USB COM port it will naturally use its own
drivers. Prior to Windows 10 COM ports were a nightmare, hence the
FTDI debacle.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ftdi-a...silent-update/


It might be worth plugging in your old converters into a Windows 10
machine to see if they are recognised before binning them.

Was not planning to bin them... I have other things that can talk RS232.

The MC145406 changes from TTL levels to RS232 levels. You can get very
cheap TTL level RS232 USB converters though they don't always come
with all the signals I believe you might need.

I would suggest a Max232 if you want a simple to use driver, since it
will run off a single sided 5V supply.

Nice project.

Well I had had the bits sat there for a couple of months - just needed
an appropriately shaped tuit! So thought I would give it a try.

ISTR there is another much smaller Wacom floating about - I might have a
go at that next, since I have another Teensy.

Two of the signals sourced from the MC145406 are grounded. Why, does
this cause any issues? I presume these would normally be handshaking
lines used to buffer data.

On 20/12/2020 02:46, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 18/12/2020 14:26, John Rumm wrote:

I remember working on a prototype CPU card that someone had wired up
with Dagewire - It was an enamelled copper wire based prototype system
that used little IDC terminals on the bottom of a matrix board. It was
fine at first, until you had to make changes, and it becomes
progressively less reliable with time! It made doing hardware software
integration fun as you always had to work out if the software is
wrong, the hardware design wrong, the build wrong, or do you just have
yet another loose connection!

(vero wire would have probably been better!)


Fond memories of long nights of solderless wire wrapping, 8 bit DIL CPUs
on verocards. 6809 style. Don't believe anyone does that anymore

For giggles I have a few 486SX25 CPUs stashed. I've wondered if I should
dig out the gear and wire something up for old times sake of seeing
homebrewed clock cycles again.

I quite like messing about with old 8 and early 16 bit stuff like that,
but find it harder to get nostalgic about 486 era stuff - not sure why.

Perhaps because dealing with that many pins for so little reward seems
like hard work! :-)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 20/12/2020 12:38, Fredxx wrote:
On 18/12/2020 14:17, John Rumm wrote:
On 18/12/2020 13:13, Fredxx wrote:
On 18/12/2020 10:25:02, John Rumm wrote:
Quick little electronics hack project for those interested:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/..._serial_to_USB


(early draft - so typos may abound!)

I use a Belkin RS232 to USB converter as you can still get drivers
for these.

Yup the RS232 to USB converters work fine (ish - I have had some
chipsets that worked and some that did not in the past), but the Wacom
drivers that do serial tablets don't seem to want to play anymore, and
the USB drivers dont expect to see a serial tablet on USB. So getting
the USB interface is only part of the problem - you also need to make
the tablet appear to the windows driver as a more recent USB model.

I'm surprised this is an issue where you're using Windows 10?

The Windows drivers should provide a COM port and any application should
be oblivious to whether its talking directly to a serial COM port or a
USB device emulating a COM port.

It does. But that only gets you at best half way there. Win 10 may even
recognise a tablet as a HID and let you move the mouse. However to go
further and gain pressure and tilt sensitivity, you need the Wacom
driver. And the ones that recognise serial tablets don't work on win 10
(or 64 bit windows in general).

The wacom USB drivers can run on Win 10, but then they expect the USB
device to identify as a wacom device and not a generic com port.

If Windows 10 sees a USB COM port it will naturally use its own
drivers. Prior to Windows 10 COM ports were a nightmare, hence the
FTDI debacle.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ftdi-a...silent-update/


It might be worth plugging in your old converters into a Windows 10
machine to see if they are recognised before binning them.

Was not planning to bin them... I have other things that can talk RS232.

The MC145406 changes from TTL levels to RS232 levels. You can get
very cheap TTL level RS232 USB converters though they don't always
come with all the signals I believe you might need.

Yup many of the easier to use ICs like the MAX232 et al only have enough
paths to handle a couple of inputs and outputs. Certainly enough for
basic async comms, but not enough for some of the more esoteric
implementations of RS232. The MC14506 has enough paths to handle tx, rx,
rts, cts, dtr, dcd for fuller spec interfaces - although you have to
provide your own negative power rail.

I would suggest a Max232 if you want a simple to use driver, since it
will run off a single sided 5V supply.

Nice project.

Well I had had the bits sat there for a couple of months - just needed
an appropriately shaped tuit! So thought I would give it a try.

ISTR there is another much smaller Wacom floating about - I might have
a go at that next, since I have another Teensy.

Two of the signals sourced from the MC145406 are grounded. Why, does
this cause any issues? I presume these would normally be handshaking
lines used to buffer data.

That was just belt and braces - the serial interface did bring DTR and
RTS through to the line driver, so it was possible (although probably
unlikely) they were used in the tablet firmware - so thought it better
not to leave them floating.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 20/12/2020 16:09, John Rumm wrote:
On 20/12/2020 02:46, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 18/12/2020 14:26, John Rumm wrote:

I remember working on a prototype CPU card that someone had wired up
with Dagewire - It was an enamelled copper wire based prototype
system that used little IDC terminals on the bottom of a matrix
board. It was fine at first, until you had to make changes, and it
becomes progressively less reliable with time! It made doing hardware
software integration fun as you always had to work out if the
software is wrong, the hardware design wrong, the build wrong, or do
you just have yet another loose connection!

(vero wire would have probably been better!)


Fond memories of long nights of solderless wire wrapping, 8 bit DIL
CPUs on verocards. 6809 style. Don't believe anyone does that anymore

For giggles I have a few 486SX25 CPUs stashed. I've wondered if I
should dig out the gear and wire something up for old times sake of
seeing homebrewed clock cycles again.

I quite like messing about with old 8 and early 16 bit stuff like that,
but find it harder to get nostalgic about 486 era stuff - not sure why.

Perhaps because dealing with that many pins for so little reward seems
like hard work! :-)

try the NG alt.folklore.computers