A multi-occupier building has, in a communal service cupboard, a
single standard 13A surface-mounted switched socket into which is
plugged a normal-looking plug.

Entering that plug are two different leads connected to two
different items of low-power fixed communal equipment (it is
not easy to see what each of those actually does - or did.

How should that setup be described, on a scale running from
entirely satisfactory to absolutely illegal?


--
(c) Dr. S. Lartius, UK. Gmail: dr.s.lartius@ |

On Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 7:49:43 PM UTC, wrote:
A multi-occupier building has, in a communal service cupboard, a
single standard 13A surface-mounted switched socket into which is
plugged a normal-looking plug.

Entering that plug are two different leads connected to two
different items of low-power fixed communal equipment (it is
not easy to see what each of those actually does - or did.

How should that setup be described, on a scale running from
entirely satisfactory to absolutely illegal?

Not quite what you are asking, but you can get (or used to be able to get)
a 'multiplug' - the normal three brass pins but with a larger plastic housing.
Inside the housing the pins came out to brass 'bus bars'. You could fit up
to four cables in one of these, each individually screwed down and with
individual cord grips.

I have a feeling these are no longer on sale, but they were useful items.

PS: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Micromark-M.../dp/B002Y0OA32

Well what fuse is fitted in the plug. I guarantee that if you look in most
human fitted plugs you will see its got a 13 amp fuse.

In my view that is hardy safe.

To be a hand wired plug, then its either a very old installation, or
somebody cut the plugs off. Seems a little silly as a two socket extension
lead is cheap as chips and much less ambiguous.
Its one of those things we have all done. Idea I have a couple of socket
bars wired together using the connections in one to hold the cable to the
other, but I've been very careful with fuses and all of that.
I cannot see to do it now, but I've come across random coloured three core
thin wire never intended for mans used to wire up 8 watt lights in a
greenhouse, and that lasted over 20 years with no adverse effects.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Dr S Lartius" wrote in message
...
A multi-occupier building has, in a communal service cupboard, a
single standard 13A surface-mounted switched socket into which is
plugged a normal-looking plug.

Entering that plug are two different leads connected to two
different items of low-power fixed communal equipment (it is
not easy to see what each of those actually does - or did.

How should that setup be described, on a scale running from
entirely satisfactory to absolutely illegal?


--
(c) Dr. S. Lartius, UK. Gmail: dr.s.lartius@ |

There was also a natty plug with tine three pin sockets in a well on one end
and four little plugs to fit them.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"jkn" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 7:49:43 PM UTC,
wrote:
A multi-occupier building has, in a communal service cupboard, a
single standard 13A surface-mounted switched socket into which is
plugged a normal-looking plug.

Entering that plug are two different leads connected to two
different items of low-power fixed communal equipment (it is
not easy to see what each of those actually does - or did.

How should that setup be described, on a scale running from
entirely satisfactory to absolutely illegal?

Not quite what you are asking, but you can get (or used to be able to get)
a 'multiplug' - the normal three brass pins but with a larger plastic
housing.
Inside the housing the pins came out to brass 'bus bars'. You could fit up
to four cables in one of these, each individually screwed down and with
individual cord grips.

I have a feeling these are no longer on sale, but they were useful items.

On 04/11/2020 19:49, Dr S Lartius wrote:
A multi-occupier building has, in a communal service cupboard, a
single standard 13A surface-mounted switched socket into which is
plugged a normal-looking plug.

Entering that plug are two different leads connected to two
different items of low-power fixed communal equipment (it is
not easy to see what each of those actually does - or did.

How should that setup be described, on a scale running from
entirely satisfactory to absolutely illegal?


It's likely the wiring in the plug is untidy. I suggest two plugs and an
adaptor. Fit 2A fuses in the plugs. Check that the cables don't pull at
the adaptor unduely. Check that the equipment has adequate ventilation.
Consider a smoke alarm in the service cupboard, near a ventilation
grille (of a type that won't close) in the door.

What you describe is commonly done by cowboy CCTV and TV system persons.

Bill

On 04/11/2020 19:49, Dr S Lartius wrote:
A multi-occupier building has, in a communal service cupboard, a
single standard 13A surface-mounted switched socket into which is
plugged a normal-looking plug.

Entering that plug are two different leads connected to two
different items of low-power fixed communal equipment (it is
not easy to see what each of those actually does - or did.

How should that setup be described, on a scale running from
entirely satisfactory to absolutely illegal?

I expect the person who did it didn't have an extra plug and two way
adapter, or the ability to get them.

--
Max Demian

On Wed, 4 Nov 2020 11:49:39 -0800 (PST), Dr S Lartius
wrote:

A multi-occupier building has, in a communal service cupboard, a
single standard 13A surface-mounted switched socket into which is
plugged a normal-looking plug.

Entering that plug are two different leads connected to two
different items of low-power fixed communal equipment (it is
not easy to see what each of those actually does - or did.

How should that setup be described, on a scale running from
entirely satisfactory to absolutely illegal?

I'm sure I've got some 'Siamese' cables where you have one cord that
splits into two IEC sockets? Not quite the same situation but it
suggests things like that are done (by design)?

Cheers, T i m

On 04/11/2020 22:55, Max Demian wrote:

I expect the person who did it didn't have an extra plug and two way
adapter, or the ability to get them.

Typical cowboy would resent the expenditure of a 31p plug and a 50p adaptor.

Bill

"williamwright" wrote in message
...
On 04/11/2020 22:55, Max Demian wrote:

I expect the person who did it didn't have an extra plug and two way
adapter, or the ability to get them.

Typical cowboy would resent the expenditure of a 31p plug and a 50p
adaptor.

It is easy to argue that the end result of adding a 2 way adaptor is not as
neat as this solution

though anybody doing this properly would take out the single socket and
replace it with a dual

On 04/11/2020 19:49, Dr S Lartius wrote:
A multi-occupier building has, in a communal service cupboard, a
single standard 13A surface-mounted switched socket into which is
plugged a normal-looking plug.

Entering that plug are two different leads connected to two
different items of low-power fixed communal equipment (it is
not easy to see what each of those actually does - or did.

How should that setup be described, on a scale running from
entirely satisfactory to absolutely illegal?


I would say entirely unsatisfactory.

The correct method would be two seperate 13a plugs and a double socket
outlet. As a temporary measure a 2 way adaptor in to the single socket
would not be 'illegal'.

"Jack Harry Teesdale" wrote in message
...
On 04/11/2020 19:49, Dr S Lartius wrote:
A multi-occupier building has, in a communal service cupboard, a
single standard 13A surface-mounted switched socket into which is
plugged a normal-looking plug.

Entering that plug are two different leads connected to two
different items of low-power fixed communal equipment (it is
not easy to see what each of those actually does - or did.

How should that setup be described, on a scale running from
entirely satisfactory to absolutely illegal?


I would say entirely unsatisfactory.

The correct method would be two seperate 13a plugs and a double socket
outlet. As a temporary measure a 2 way adaptor in to the single socket
would not be 'illegal'.

A multiple socket replacing a single socket is no doubt the best, but it is
a *lot* of DIY work to install - chasing out plaster, putting in a larger
backing box, undoing the two thick wires to each terminal and connecting
them to the new multi-socket. I'd say that a multi-way socket bar on a short
trailing lead is the best *pragmatic* solution. I prefer those over the
multi-way cube adaptors because there's less chance of the weight of the
various leads pulling the pins of the adaptor out of the wall. With any
adaptor (cube or socket bar) you need to apply a bit of common sense: a
3-bar electric fire on each of the four sockets in a bar is *not* a good
idea and hopefully the 13A fuse in the bar will blow PDQ.

Most of the time, multiple sockets are needed for lots of low-power
wall-wart adaptors rather than heavy power consumers, so the total current
in the cable and the single plug will be well below the 13A limit.

On 05/11/2020 10:01, NY wrote:
"Jack Harry Teesdale" wrote in message
...
On 04/11/2020 19:49, Dr S Lartius wrote:
A multi-occupier building has, in a communal service cupboard, a
single standard 13A surface-mounted switched socket into which is
plugged a normal-looking plug.

Entering that plug are two different leads connected to two
different items of low-power fixed communal equipment (it is
not easy to see what each of those actually does - or did.

How should that setup be described, on a scale running from
entirely satisfactory to absolutely illegal?


I would say entirely unsatisfactory.

The correct method would be two seperate 13a plugs and a double socket
outlet. As a temporary measure a 2 way adaptor in to the single socket
would not be 'illegal'.

A multiple socket replacing a single socket is no doubt the best, but it
is a *lot* of DIY work to install - chasing out plaster, putting in a
larger backing box, undoing the two thick wires to each terminal and
connecting them to the new multi-socket. I'd say that a multi-way socket
bar on a short trailing lead is the best *pragmatic* solution. I prefer
those over the multi-way cube adaptors because there's less chance of
the weight of the various leads pulling the pins of the adaptor out of
the wall. With any adaptor (cube or socket bar) you need to apply a bit
of common sense: a 3-bar electric fire on each of the four sockets in a
bar is *not* a good idea and hopefully the 13A fuse in the bar will blow
PDQ.

Most of the time, multiple sockets are needed for lots of low-power
wall-wart adaptors rather than heavy power consumers, so the total
current in the cable and the single plug will be well below the 13A limit.

The OP is faced with "a 13A *surface-mounted* switched socket" [emphasis
added] so not such a big job.

If it were a socket in a back box then a converter socket* avoids the
need for a new back box; and in a cupboard is unlikely to be
aesthetically unacceptable. But naturally only to be undertaken by
someone competent and authorised by the building's owner/manager.

*eg
https://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-13a-1g-to-2g-switched-converter-socket-white/108cc

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Thursday, 5 November 2020 09:49:10 UTC, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
On 04/11/2020 19:49, Dr S Lartius wrote:
A multi-occupier building has, in a communal service cupboard, a
single standard 13A surface-mounted switched socket into which is
plugged a normal-looking plug.

Entering that plug are two different leads connected to two
different items of low-power fixed communal equipment (it is
not easy to see what each of those actually does - or did.

How should that setup be described, on a scale running from
entirely satisfactory to absolutely illegal?


I would say entirely unsatisfactory.


CONGRATULATIONS! you are the first person, and the only one so far, to have actually answered the question!!

The correct method would be two seperate 13a plugs and a double socket
outlet. As a temporary measure a 2 way adaptor in to the single socket
would not be 'illegal'.

Your first sentence - Yes - the architect ... fitters should done that.
Your second sentence - Agreed though in practice the adapter would either be permanent or stolen.

The setup is undoubtedly about 40 years old.

The proper course of action seems to be to identify the functions of the two devices on the two leads - not easy. One of them has probably been operating, since Feb 2014, to no useful effect. If so, then its lead can be removed from the plug, saving a few pence per year per resident.


Thanks,

--
(c) Dr. S. Lartius, UK. Gmail: dr.s.lartius@ |

On Thu, 5 Nov 2020 09:49:04 +0000, Jack Harry Teesdale
wrote:

On 04/11/2020 19:49, Dr S Lartius wrote:
A multi-occupier building has, in a communal service cupboard, a
single standard 13A surface-mounted switched socket into which is
plugged a normal-looking plug.

Entering that plug are two different leads connected to two
different items of low-power fixed communal equipment (it is
not easy to see what each of those actually does - or did.

How should that setup be described, on a scale running from
entirely satisfactory to absolutely illegal?


I would say entirely unsatisfactory.

The correct method would be two seperate 13a plugs and a double socket
outlet. As a temporary measure a 2 way adaptor in to the single socket
would not be 'illegal'.

2 way adapters (those block things) are the spawn of the devil
regardless of legality. They wobble and are more of a risk than a
solution. The only one I have is to give me two 2 pin outlets for
shaving etc.

--
AnthonyL

Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?

In article ,
Max Demian wrote:
On 04/11/2020 19:49, Dr S Lartius wrote:
A multi-occupier building has, in a communal service cupboard, a
single standard 13A surface-mounted switched socket into which is
plugged a normal-looking plug.

Entering that plug are two different leads connected to two
different items of low-power fixed communal equipment (it is
not easy to see what each of those actually does - or did.

How should that setup be described, on a scale running from
entirely satisfactory to absolutely illegal?

I expect the person who did it didn't have an extra plug and two way
adapter, or the ability to get them.

Not convinced a two way adaptor is as safe - especially for something that
is normally left plugged in.

--
*Too many clicks spoil the browse *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
AnthonyL wrote:
On Thu, 5 Nov 2020 09:49:04 +0000, Jack Harry Teesdale
wrote:

On 04/11/2020 19:49, Dr S Lartius wrote:
A multi-occupier building has, in a communal service cupboard, a
single standard 13A surface-mounted switched socket into which is
plugged a normal-looking plug.

Entering that plug are two different leads connected to two
different items of low-power fixed communal equipment (it is
not easy to see what each of those actually does - or did.

How should that setup be described, on a scale running from
entirely satisfactory to absolutely illegal?


I would say entirely unsatisfactory.

The correct method would be two seperate 13a plugs and a double socket
outlet. As a temporary measure a 2 way adaptor in to the single socket
would not be 'illegal'.

2 way adapters (those block things) are the spawn of the devil
regardless of legality. They wobble and are more of a risk than a
solution. The only one I have is to give me two 2 pin outlets for
shaving etc.

Yup - something sticking out of the wall that far is prone to damage -
especially in a cupboard, where things are likely stored.

--
*If at first you do succeed, try not to look too astonished.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wednesday, 4 November 2020 at 23:56:57 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 4 Nov 2020 11:49:39 -0800 (PST), Dr S Lartius
wrote:

A multi-occupier building has, in a communal service cupboard, a
single standard 13A surface-mounted switched socket into which is
plugged a normal-looking plug.

Entering that plug are two different leads connected to two
different items of low-power fixed communal equipment (it is
not easy to see what each of those actually does - or did.

How should that setup be described, on a scale running from
entirely satisfactory to absolutely illegal?
I'm sure I've got some 'Siamese' cables where you have one cord that
splits into two IEC sockets? Not quite the same situation but it
suggests things like that are done (by design)?

Cheers, T i m

yep, we probbaly have around 100 of these.
https://www.rapidonline.com/truconne...ordset-23-6455
We or rather I call them Y IEC cables.
Used to connect a scope and a PSU , or soldering iron and a helpings hand PSU (for the LED light)
be difficult to have everything powered without them.

Dave Plowman wrote:

Not convinced a two way adaptor is as safe - especially for something that
is normally left plugged in.

A short two-way trailing lead socket better

https://cpc.farnell.com/pro-elec/0139-bk/socket-rubber-2-gang-13a-black/dp/PL09468

On 04/11/2020 20:47, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
There was also a natty plug with tine three pin sockets in a well on one end
and four little plugs to fit them.
Brian

There was this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Masterplug-...ct_top?ie=UTF8

(For Brian's benefit.Â* A 13 amp plug with four cable entry points)

Now illegal and withdrawn, because you can't share a single fuse on
multiple flexes, though surely the same would apply to multiple IEC dist
strips ?

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes

Not convinced a two way adaptor is as safe - especially for something that
is normally left plugged in.

Agreed. Our local fire service bods really, really don't like two (or
more) way adaptors.

I have to confess to wiring two bedside lights to one standard 13 amp
plug, ensuring the cable grip holds both cables and max. 3 amp fuse
fitted. So many gadgets these days. Two double sockets, one either
side of the bed, two bedside lights, clock radio, electric blanket,
phone charger equals five plugs and four sockets.
--
Graeme

On Thu, 5 Nov 2020 05:35:44 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

snip

I'm sure I've got some 'Siamese' cables where you have one cord that
splits into two IEC sockets? Not quite the same situation but it
suggests things like that are done (by design)?


yep, we probbaly have around 100 of these.
https://www.rapidonline.com/truconne...ordset-23-6455

That's the badger. ;-)

We or rather I call them Y IEC cables.

As might I, if talking to anyone who knew what an IEC connector was.
;-)

Used to connect a scope and a PSU , or soldering iron and a helpings hand PSU (for the LED light)

Yup, PC and monitor ...

be difficult to have everything powered without them.

Quite ... and assuming they are legal I'm not sure from a
functionality POV fitting two cables into a plug top would be any less
so (and have done so myself as a preference to any alternatives).

The fuse still protects the cable(s), the equipment can still be
completely isolated from the mains and disconnected from the cord, and
as long as the cord grip retains both cords effectively and the wires
laid in neatly ... ?

Cheers, T i m

On Thu, 05 Nov 2020 13:32:31 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

snip

2 way adapters (those block things) are the spawn of the devil
regardless of legality. They wobble and are more of a risk than a
solution. The only one I have is to give me two 2 pin outlets for
shaving etc.

Yup - something sticking out of the wall that far is prone to damage -
especially in a cupboard, where things are likely stored.

I think it's like many things, a worn out socket with a worn out
multiway adaptor will wobble about but a good quality / new one in a
good quality / new socket is likely to be pretty stable.

Most of the sockets in daughters flat are 'worn out', possibly because
there aren't enough and so those that are get used a lot. Some feel
like even a std mains plug would fall out on it's own! (We have
replacement sockets in hand, process approved by the landlord).

Cheers, T i m

Graeme wrote:

So many gadgets these days. Two double sockets, one either side of
the bed, two bedside lights, clock radio, electric blanket, phone
charger equals five plugs

Couple of multi-way trailing socket bars under the bed ...

On Thu, 05 Nov 2020 13:59:15 +0000, Graeme wrote:

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes

Not convinced a two way adaptor is as safe - especially for something
that is normally left plugged in.

Agreed. Our local fire service bods really, really don't like two (or
more) way adaptors.

My university college (student rooms) had, for about 20 years, those 13
amp sockets with ceramic insulation around the holes for the pins. There
was a complete ban on 'block' adaptors from the start, due to possible
weight issues.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 04/11/2020 19:49, Dr S Lartius wrote:

A multi-occupier building has, in a communal service cupboard, a
single standard 13A surface-mounted switched socket into which is
plugged a normal-looking plug.

Entering that plug are two different leads connected to two
different items of low-power fixed communal equipment (it is
not easy to see what each of those actually does - or did.

How should that setup be described, on a scale running from
entirely satisfactory to absolutely illegal?

Somewhere between the two. Its not ideal, but certainly not illegal.

Not being able to see it, I can only guess, but assuming the cables are
relatively thin and so can be adequately terminated in the single set of
terminals, and also the cord grip can function on both, then there is no
immediate risk.

The plug fuse should offer fault protection to both leads, so no worries
there. There is the operating practical issue of not now being able to
isolate one of the bits of equipment alone, making maintenance more
difficult, and potentially leading to unnecessary kit being left powered
when no longer required.

The common way of dealing with this in wiring cabinets is with a Power
Distribution Unit (or "PDU"), which is basically just a posh multiway
extension lead - usually with fixing points to allow easy wall or rack
mounting, and possibly individual switching per socket. e.g:

https://www.comms-express.com/produc...-plug-sockets/

Hacking about with the fixed wiring is unlikely something that most
contractors will want to do to in a communal space for any number of
reasons. (i.e. I am here to fix the CCTV or door entry system, not
rewire the lobby!)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 05/11/2020 14:39, John Rumm wrote:
On 04/11/2020 19:49, Dr S Lartius wrote:

A multi-occupier building has, in a communal service cupboard, a
single standard 13A surface-mounted switched socket into which is
plugged a normal-looking plug.

Entering that plug are two different leads connected to two
different items of low-power fixed communal equipment (it is
not easy to see what each of those actually does - or did.

How should that setup be described, on a scale running from
entirely satisfactory to absolutely illegal?

Somewhere between the two. Its not ideal, but certainly not illegal.

A fire investigator would take a dim view of it though if there was a
fire that appeared to have started inside that cupboard.

Not being able to see it, I can only guess, but assuming the cables are
relatively thin and so can be adequately terminated in the single set of
terminals, and also the cord grip can function on both, then there is no
immediate risk.

Might be worth taking it apart to have a look inside.

There is a possibility if the public has access to it that the fuse has
been wrapped in Kitkat foil because it kept on blowing. I'd certainly
want to see inside it once I was aware that it existed.

The last time I saw something similar was the church's Xmas tree lights
for their somewhat oversized tree. Two sets wired into one plug.

You could try leaving it unplugged to see what if anything stops
working. It could be for some long since redundant legacy kit.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In article ,
T i m wrote:
We or rather I call them Y IEC cables.

As might I, if talking to anyone who knew what an IEC connector was.
;-)

Kettle plug. ;-)

--
*IF YOU TRY TO FAIL, AND SUCCEED, WHICH HAVE YOU DONE?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
A fire investigator would take a dim view of it though if there was a
fire that appeared to have started inside that cupboard.

Can you explain why? Don't see how it is anymore of a fire hazard than two
plugs and sockets. Unless the combined load is at the maximum - which in
this case it isn't.

But then any fixed appliance shouldn't be on a plug anyway. More so if
taking a high load continuously.

--
*Laugh alone and the world thinks you're an idiot.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thursday, 5 November 2020 13:41:52 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

Not convinced a two way adaptor is as safe - especially for something that
is normally left plugged in.

A short two-way trailing lead socket better

https://cpc.farnell.com/pro-elec/0139-bk/socket-rubber-2-gang-13a-black/dp/PL09468

You would not have written that if you had seen what it would have to trail into.

A two-way individually switched distribution board screwed to the breeze-block wall above would be better, though I'd choose four-way to allow for possible developments.


--
(c) Dr. S. Lartius, UK. Gmail: dr.s.lartius@ |

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
A fire investigator would take a dim view of it though if there was a
fire that appeared to have started inside that cupboard.

Can you explain why? Don't see how it is anymore of a fire hazard than two
plugs and sockets. Unless the combined load is at the maximum - which in
this case it isn't.

It's the bending moment exerted on the socket which could well lead to a
loose connection and possible arcing.

But then any fixed appliance shouldn't be on a plug anyway.

some of them are powered by wallworts, so can't avoid it.

More so if taking a high load continuously.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 05/11/2020 13:29, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Not convinced a two way adaptor is as safe - especially for something that
is normally left plugged in.

It isn't in a place where there are people.

Bill

On 05/11/2020 09:49, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
The correct method would be two seperate 13a plugs and a double socket
outlet.

In a service duct or riser I see no problem with adaptors.

Bill

On 05/11/2020 10:39, Dr S Lartius wrote:
CONGRATULATIONS! you are the first person, and the only one so far, to have actually answered the question!!

Oh well if you're going to like that you can ********.

Bill

On 05/11/2020 12:44, AnthonyL wrote:
2 way adapters (those block things) are the spawn of the devil
regardless of legality. They wobble and are more of a risk than a
solution. The only one I have is to give me two 2 pin outlets for
shaving etc.

Not in a locked service cupboard.

Bill

On 05/11/2020 13:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Yup - something sticking out of the wall that far is prone to damage -
especially in a cupboard, where things are likely stored.


If anyone 'stores' anything in a riser cupboard the first thing is to
throw it all in the skip. Second thing it to change the lock. Absolutely
forbidden. Fire hazard.

Bill

On 04/11/2020 19:49, Dr S Lartius wrote:
A multi-occupier building has, in a communal service cupboard, a
single standard 13A surface-mounted switched socket into which is
plugged a normal-looking plug.

It seems to me that a lot of respondents have never seen the inside of a
service cupboard or riser.

Bill

On Thursday, 5 November 2020 14:57:57 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:
On 05/11/2020 14:39, John Rumm wrote:
On 04/11/2020 19:49, Dr S Lartius wrote:

Entering that plug are two different leads connected to two
different items of low-power fixed communal equipment (it is
not easy to see what each of those actually does - or did.

Might be worth taking it apart to have a look inside.


You could try leaving it unplugged to see what if anything stops
working. It could be for some long since redundant legacy kit.

The socket is the only likely source of significant electrical power in the cupboard.

Lower down, there is a rat's nest of thin wires presumed to include POTS service and the wiring providing buzzer, two-way voice, and front door release for each residence. That seems to be connected to a strange box, perhaps a UPS, which has an input from the plug, daisy-chaining to an electro-mechanical timer (Sangamo-Weston, IIRC), which probably deals with timed entry, which was removed in 2014. It is, however, still going round and showing about the right time. I wonder what power it consumes!

But there is no need to unplug it; the socket has a switch.


--
(c) Dr. S. Lartius, UK. Gmail: dr.s.lartius@ |

On 05/11/2020 14:57, Martin Brown wrote:
On 05/11/2020 14:39, John Rumm wrote:
On 04/11/2020 19:49, Dr S Lartius wrote:

A multi-occupier building has, in a communal service cupboard, a
single standard 13A surface-mounted switched socket into which is
plugged a normal-looking plug.

Entering that plug are two different leads connected to two
different items of low-power fixed communal equipment (it is
not easy to see what each of those actually does - or did.

How should that setup be described, on a scale running from
entirely satisfactory to absolutely illegal?

Somewhere between the two. Its not ideal, but certainly not illegal.

A fire investigator would take a dim view of it though if there was a
fire that appeared to have started inside that cupboard.

Quite possibly, although in reality two low power appliances on one plug
are no more likely to start a fire than the same two appliances on
separate plugs.

Not being able to see it, I can only guess, but assuming the cables
are relatively thin and so can be adequately terminated in the single
set of terminals, and also the cord grip can function on both, then
there is no immediate risk.

Might be worth taking it apart to have a look inside.

There is a possibility if the public has access to it that the fuse has
been wrapped in Kitkat foil because it kept on blowing. I'd certainly
want to see inside it once I was aware that it existed.

Again the OP did say low power... if there are a pair of twin 0.5mm^2
flexes going in, its unlikely they are feeding the curtain heaters over
the door.

The last time I saw something similar was the church's Xmas tree lights
for their somewhat oversized tree. Two sets wired into one plug.

ISTR having done the same here with two sets of lights on one tree.

You could try leaving it unplugged to see what if anything stops
working. It could be for some long since redundant legacy kit.

Yup, its common to find plenty of no longer required kit sat there still
powered.

(I managed to reclaim about 6U of space from a 16U cabinet the other day
just by pulling out a few bits of old kit including a complete PABX, and
a big pile of CAT5 patch leads :-)



--
Cheers,

John.

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On 05/11/2020 16:58, charles wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
A fire investigator would take a dim view of it though if there was a
fire that appeared to have started inside that cupboard.

Can you explain why? Don't see how it is anymore of a fire hazard than two
plugs and sockets. Unless the combined load is at the maximum - which in
this case it isn't.

It's the bending moment exerted on the socket which could well lead to a
loose connection and possible arcing.

I think that is stretching it a bit!

2 of 0.5mm^2 twin flexes will weigh far less than a single 3 core
1.5mm^5 flex, which is what you will find on plenty of high current
appliances.


But then any fixed appliance shouldn't be on a plug anyway.

some of them are powered by wallworts, so can't avoid it.

Indeed - although it does depend on what you mean by a fixed appliance.

I have never seen a rack of servers hardwired into FCUs :-)



--
Cheers,

John.

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