https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/pa...ine-trial-dies

Andrew

On 21/10/2020 18:55:15, Andrew wrote:
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/pa...ine-trial-dies

Which says: "AZ has just revealed that the patient who died received a
placebo, not the actual vaccine."

It sounds the placebo is more dangerous than the vaccine?

This is precisely why results should not be released before they are
analysed. I mean people die all the time, its natural. They at least should
have held off the original announcement till they knew what he had taken.
I see in this country they are recruiting people to give the virus to, I'm
not totally sure what their aim is, but I guess it might be to do with
infection detection how its spread and what existing treatments can be used
etc.
Brian

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"Andrew" wrote in message
...
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/pa...ine-trial-dies

Andrew

Yes I think it was his point really that the market did not wait to find
out. That release is in my view a breach of some rule or other somewhere.
Brian

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"Jimk" wrote in message
o.uk...
Andrew Wrote in message:
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/pa...ine-trial-dies

Andrew


From your own link...

"the patient who died received a placebo, not the actual vaccine."
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On 21/10/2020 18:55, Andrew wrote:
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/pa...ine-trial-dies


Andrew


Just announced that the trial was given the go ahead to continue.

Andrew Wrote in message:
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/pa...ine-trial-dies

Andrew


From your own link...

"the patient who died received a placebo, not the actual vaccine."
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Fredxx Wrote in message:
On 21/10/2020 18:55:15, Andrew wrote:
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/pa...ine-trial-dies

Which says: "AZ has just revealed that the patient who died received a
placebo, not the actual vaccine."

It sounds the placebo is more dangerous than the vaccine?


That's relatively ok then...
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Jimk


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"Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" Wrote in message:
Yes I think it was his point really that the market did not wait to find
out. That release is in my view a breach of some rule or other somewhere.
Brian


Reading the article....

"Brazilian health authority Anvisa announced Wednesday"

So not AZ that released info.

By lunchtime ET, AZ had clarified the sutuation & any "damage"
contained if not totally reversed...

Puzzlingly you seem to be advocating stricter controls on
information flow & news in general?

--
Jimk


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On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 20:13:54 +0100, Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) wrote:

Yes I think it was his point really that the market did not wait to find
out.

The markets never wait, you don't want to be stuck with 10 billion
shares that you paid 1.34783 each for when the price drops 0.0001...
More to the point the market only makes money when it's volatile. No
doubt the same people selling their 1.34783 shares and thus pushing
the price down, will be buying at 1.34773 on the basis that it's a
"blip" and the price will bounce back up to 1.34793...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 20:12:38 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
wrote:

This is precisely why results should not be released before they are
analysed. I mean people die all the time, its natural. They at least should
have held off the original announcement till they knew what he had taken.
I see in this country they are recruiting people to give the virus to, I'm
not totally sure what their aim is, but I guess it might be to do with
infection detection how its spread and what existing treatments can be used
etc.

I told the nurse that a level of risk was acceptable in a medical
trial, just as any medication or medical procedure carries a level of
risk. I am sure most volunteers feel the same way. It's a
manifestation of informed consent.

My sister in law won't take part in case it puts her mother at risk.

On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 20:12:38 +0100, Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) wrote:

I see in this country they are recruiting people to give the virus to,
I'm not totally sure what their aim is, ...

'twas rumbled a while back that the vaccine testing really ought to
have a some sort of definitive test that it really does generate an
effective immune response in most people. The only way to do that is
deliberatly infect people with SARS-Cov-2 with a known amount of
active virus at various time peiods after the "immunisation".

... but I guess it might be to do with infection detection how its
spread and what existing treatments can be used etc.

The ONS random population testing gives a pretty good idea about
spread and a I'd assume that there is a questionire associated with
the taking of swab sample that could give information about that
subjects "exposure" in the week before the sample.

They have plenty of subjects on which to trail existing treatments...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thursday, 22 October 2020 09:35:54 UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote:

The ONS random population testing gives a pretty good idea about
spread and a I'd assume that there is a questionire associated with
the taking of swab sample that could give information about that
subjects "exposure" in the week before the sample.

Yes, there is. I've just done one.

John

On 22/10/2020 09:23, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 20:13:54 +0100, Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) wrote:

Yes I think it was his point really that the market did not wait to find
out.

The markets never wait, you don't want to be stuck with 10 billion
shares that you paid 1.34783 each for when the price drops 0.0001...
More to the point the market only makes money when it's volatile. No
doubt the same people selling their 1.34783 shares and thus pushing
the price down, will be buying at 1.34773 on the basis that it's a
"blip" and the price will bounce back up to 1.34793...

Of course. It's called 'shaking the tree' . And some people who are
heavily compromised with derivatives may be forced to sell to meet
margin calls...

Trading equities is rough.

Especially with high frequency algo traders magnifying every flutter.

These days I invest in fund managers who can spend their lives watching
the screens. I don't have time or patience for that. They earn their 1.5%...



--
There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale
returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.

Mark Twain

On 21/10/2020 19:22, Fredxx wrote:
On 21/10/2020 18:55:15, Andrew wrote:
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/pa...ine-trial-dies


Which says: "AZ has just revealed that the patient who died received a
placebo, not the actual vaccine."

I'm taking part in the Novavax phase 3 trial, so I read up the results
of the phase 1/2 trial. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2026920

What is striking is that 30% of those receiving the placebo reported
side effects. That's not just tenderness at the injection site, but
headaches as well. Whilst it sounds a bit wimpish (no, a lot wimpish!),
it may be understandable if they were on edge because they thought they
were taking a completely brand new vaccine rather than a drop of saline.






It sounds the placebo is more dangerous than the vaccine?

On 22/10/2020 11:43, GB wrote:
On 21/10/2020 19:22, Fredxx wrote:
On 21/10/2020 18:55:15, Andrew wrote:
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/pa...ine-trial-dies



Which says: "AZ has just revealed that the patient who died received a
placebo, not the actual vaccine."

I'm taking part in the Novavax phase 3 trial, so I read up the results
of the phase 1/2 trial. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2026920

What is striking is that 30% of those receiving the placebo reported
side effects. That's not just tenderness at the injection site, but
headaches as well. Whilst it sounds a bit wimpish (no, a lot wimpish!),
it may be understandable if they were on edge because they thought they
were taking a completely brand new vaccine rather than a drop of saline.

Well all hail the mighty placebo! Without which the homoeopathic and
crank market would not survive!






It sounds the placebo is more dangerous than the vaccine?



--
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

On 22/10/2020 11:43, GB wrote:
On 21/10/2020 19:22, Fredxx wrote:
On 21/10/2020 18:55:15, Andrew wrote:
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/pa...ine-trial-dies



Which says: "AZ has just revealed that the patient who died received a
placebo, not the actual vaccine."


Well they would say that, wouldn't they? :-)

I'm taking part in the Novavax phase 3 trial, so I read up the results
of the phase 1/2 trial. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2026920

What is striking is that 30% of those receiving the placebo reported
side effects. That's not just tenderness at the injection site, but
headaches as well. Whilst it sounds a bit wimpish (no, a lot wimpish!),
it may be understandable if they were on edge because they thought they
were taking a completely brand new vaccine rather than a drop of saline.

Ah well, saline raises yer blood pressure.



It sounds the placebo is more dangerous than the vaccine?



--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

On Thu, 22 Oct 2020 11:43:44 +0100, GB
wrote:

On 21/10/2020 19:22, Fredxx wrote:
On 21/10/2020 18:55:15, Andrew wrote:
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/pa...ine-trial-dies


Which says: "AZ has just revealed that the patient who died received a
placebo, not the actual vaccine."

I'm taking part in the Novavax phase 3 trial, so I read up the results
of the phase 1/2 trial. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2026920

What is striking is that 30% of those receiving the placebo reported
side effects. That's not just tenderness at the injection site, but
headaches as well. Whilst it sounds a bit wimpish (no, a lot wimpish!),
it may be understandable if they were on edge because they thought they
were taking a completely brand new vaccine rather than a drop of saline.

It sounds the placebo is more dangerous than the vaccine?

I thought AstraZenica was more than 50%, Remember the ordinary flu
vaccine causes side effects too.

Our 'placebo' is meningitis vaccine, which is well tried and tested.

Virtually all pharmaceuticals are accompanied by a list of side
effects. Anyone who looks at these in isolation without considering
the implications of the disease itself is missing the point.

On 22/10/2020 12:08, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 22/10/2020 11:43, GB wrote:
On 21/10/2020 19:22, Fredxx wrote:
On 21/10/2020 18:55:15, Andrew wrote:
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/pa...ine-trial-dies




Which says: "AZ has just revealed that the patient who died received
a placebo, not the actual vaccine."

I'm taking part in the Novavax phase 3 trial, so I read up the results
of the phase 1/2 trial.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2026920

What is striking is that 30% of those receiving the placebo reported
side effects. That's not just tenderness at the injection site, but
headaches as well. Whilst it sounds a bit wimpish (no, a lot
wimpish!), it may be understandable if they were on edge because they
thought they were taking a completely brand new vaccine rather than a
drop of saline.

Well all hail the mighty placebo! Without which the homoeopathic and
crank market would not survive!






It sounds the placebo is more dangerous than the vaccine?



Also makes it possible to conduct clinical trials (usually).

On 21/10/2020 19:22, Fredxx wrote:
On 21/10/2020 18:55:15, Andrew wrote:
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/pa...ine-trial-dies

Which says: "AZ has just revealed that the patient who died received a
placebo, not the actual vaccine."

It sounds the placebo is more dangerous than the vaccine?

I think you are referring to a nocebo, rather than a placebo. ;-)

--

Jeff