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| UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Name that screw
I have a need to find a replacement screw
Luckily thread is nothing esoteric M4 x 8 If a Phillip head .... but the head is fairly wide ~10mm and pretty thin. Anybody know if there is a name for this type of screw ... https://flic.kr/p/2jXJRyz |
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#2
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Name that screw
On 21/10/2020 18:17, rick wrote:
I have a need to find a replacement screw Luckily thread is nothing esotericÂ*Â* M4 x 8 If a Phillip head .... but the head is fairly wide ~10mm and pretty thin. Anybody know if there is a name for this type of screwÂ* ... https://flic.kr/p/2jXJRyz I would call that a bolt of some sort, rather than a screw. Does it taper at all at the 'sharp' end ?. Difficult to say from the pic. |
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#3
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Name that screw
rick wrote:
Anybody know if there is a name for this type of screwÂ* ... flat wafer head gets you close ... |
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#4
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Name that screw
Andy Burns wrote:
rick wrote: Anybody know if there is a name for this type of screwÂ* ... flat wafer head gets you close ... or low wafer head |
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#5
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Name that screw
On 21/10/2020 18:19, Andrew wrote:
On 21/10/2020 18:17, rick wrote: I have a need to find a replacement screw Luckily thread is nothing esotericÂ*Â* M4 x 8 If a Phillip head .... but the head is fairly wide ~10mm and pretty thin. Anybody know if there is a name for this type of screwÂ* ... https://flic.kr/p/2jXJRyz I would call that a bolt of some sort, rather than a screw. Does it taper at all at the 'sharp' end ?. Difficult to say from the pic. Machine screw. But then much like the difference between a ship and a boat, I don't think it has ever been detailed when a machine screw becomes a bolt. |
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#6
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Name that screw
On 21/10/2020 18:17, rick wrote:
I have a need to find a replacement screw Luckily thread is nothing esotericÂ*Â* M4 x 8 If a Phillip head .... but the head is fairly wide ~10mm and pretty thin. Anybody know if there is a name for this type of screwÂ* ... https://flic.kr/p/2jXJRyz Wafer head. https://preview.tinyurl.com/yylj4vee Which is :- https://www.google.com/search?q=M4+w...nt=firefox-b-d |
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#7
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Name that screw
On 21/10/2020 18:17, rick wrote:
I have a need to find a replacement screw Luckily thread is nothing esotericÂ*Â* M4 x 8 If a Phillip head .... but the head is fairly wide ~10mm and pretty thin. Anybody know if there is a name for this type of screwÂ* ... https://flic.kr/p/2jXJRyz Try ebay with a search of black wafer head screw m4 -- mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk |
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#8
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Name that screw
In article ,
soup wrote: On 21/10/2020 18:19, Andrew wrote: On 21/10/2020 18:17, rick wrote: I have a need to find a replacement screw Luckily thread is nothing esoteric M4 x 8 If a Phillip head .... but the head is fairly wide ~10mm and pretty thin. Anybody know if there is a name for this type of screw ... https://flic.kr/p/2jXJRyz I would call that a bolt of some sort, rather than a screw. Does it taper at all at the 'sharp' end ?. Difficult to say from the pic. Machine screw. But then much like the difference between a ship and a boat, I don't think it has ever been detailed when a machine screw becomes a bolt. I was taught a bolt isn't threaded all the way. One that is is a machine screw. -- *There are 3 kinds of people: those who can count & those who can't. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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#9
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Name that screw
Bolts have an unthreaded section, screws do not, not able to see the pick,
but there are a lot of special heads around. Thin profile Cheeseheads were used a lot on some radar gear. Also some serrated head countersunk ones that gripped the holes. I guess somebody will make almost anything if there is a demand for them. My pet hate are security screws with completely illogical tools needed to take them out. Brian -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "Andrew" wrote in message ... On 21/10/2020 18:17, rick wrote: I have a need to find a replacement screw Luckily thread is nothing esoteric M4 x 8 If a Phillip head .... but the head is fairly wide ~10mm and pretty thin. Anybody know if there is a name for this type of screw ... https://flic.kr/p/2jXJRyz I would call that a bolt of some sort, rather than a screw. Does it taper at all at the 'sharp' end ?. Difficult to say from the pic. |
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#10
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Name that screw
On 21/10/2020 18:55, soup wrote:
On 21/10/2020 18:19, Andrew wrote: On 21/10/2020 18:17, rick wrote: I have a need to find a replacement screw Luckily thread is nothing esotericÂ*Â* M4 x 8 If a Phillip head .... but the head is fairly wide ~10mm and pretty thin. Anybody know if there is a name for this type of screwÂ* ... https://flic.kr/p/2jXJRyz I would call that a bolt of some sort, rather than a screw. Does it taper at all at the 'sharp' end ?. Difficult to say from the pic. Â*Machine screw. Â*But then much like the difference between a ship and a boat, I don't think it has ever been detailed when a machine screw becomes a bolt. A bolt usually has a 6 sided head on it for a spanner, while a screw has a slot or similar for a screwdriver. |
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#11
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Name that screw
Even setscrews can have different profile and thickness heads of course.
Brian -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "Jimk" wrote in message o.uk... Jimk Wrote in message: Andrew Wrote in message: On 21/10/2020 18:17, rick wrote: I have a need to find a replacement screw Luckily thread is nothing esoteric M4 x 8 If a Phillip head .... but the head is fairly wide ~10mm and pretty thin. Anybody know if there is a name for this type of screw ... https://flic.kr/p/2jXJRyz I would call that a bolt of some sort, rather than a screw. Does it taper at all at the 'sharp' end ?. Difficult to say from the pic. Set screw Or machine screw? -- Jimk ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
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#12
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Name that screw
On 21/10/2020 18:17, rick wrote:
I have a need to find a replacement screw Luckily thread is nothing esotericÂ*Â* M4 x 8 If a Phillip head .... but the head is fairly wide ~10mm and pretty thin. Anybody know if there is a name for this type of screwÂ* ... https://flic.kr/p/2jXJRyz Use a normal screw and a big washer. Bill |
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#13
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Name that screw
On 21/10/2020 18:34, Andy Burns wrote:
Andy Burns wrote: rick wrote: Anybody know if there is a name for this type of screwÂ* ... flat wafer head gets you close ... or low wafer head Agreed. Might you get away with a pan head? Perhaps with the help of a file. |
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#14
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Name that screw
On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 20:21:57 +0100, RobH wrote:
On 21/10/2020 18:55, soup wrote: On 21/10/2020 18:19, Andrew wrote: On 21/10/2020 18:17, rick wrote: I have a need to find a replacement screw Luckily thread is nothing esotericÂ*Â* M4 x 8 If a Phillip head .... but the head is fairly wide ~10mm and pretty thin. Anybody know if there is a name for this type of screwÂ* ... https://flic.kr/p/2jXJRyz I would call that a bolt of some sort, rather than a screw. Does it taper at all at the 'sharp' end ?. Difficult to say from the pic. Â*Machine screw. Â*But then much like the difference between a ship and a boat, I don't think it has ever been detailed when a machine screw becomes a bolt. A bolt usually has a 6 sided head on it for a spanner, while a screw has a slot or similar for a screwdriver. Tell that to a coach screw! No, a bolt has an unthreaded section. A screw is threaded all the way along. There are machine screws, and wood screws, and grub screws, and... -- My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message. Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org *lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor |
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#15
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Name that screw
On 21/10/2020 18:17, rick wrote:
I have a need to find a replacement screw Luckily thread is nothing esotericÂ*Â* M4 x 8 If a Phillip head .... but the head is fairly wide ~10mm and pretty thin. Anybody know if there is a name for this type of screwÂ* ... https://flic.kr/p/2jXJRyz try "pan head". -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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#16
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Name that screw
Andrew Wrote in message:
On 21/10/2020 18:17, rick wrote: I have a need to find a replacement screw Luckily thread is nothing esoteric M4 x 8 If a Phillip head .... but the head is fairly wide ~10mm and pretty thin. Anybody know if there is a name for this type of screw ... https://flic.kr/p/2jXJRyz I would call that a bolt of some sort, rather than a screw. Does it taper at all at the 'sharp' end ?. Difficult to say from the pic. Set screw -- Jimk ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
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#17
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Name that screw
Jimk Wrote in message:
Andrew Wrote in message: On 21/10/2020 18:17, rick wrote: I have a need to find a replacement screw Luckily thread is nothing esoteric M4 x 8 If a Phillip head .... but the head is fairly wide ~10mm and pretty thin. Anybody know if there is a name for this type of screw ... https://flic.kr/p/2jXJRyz I would call that a bolt of some sort, rather than a screw. Does it taper at all at the 'sharp' end ?. Difficult to say from the pic. Set screw Or machine screw? -- Jimk ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
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#18
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Name that screw
On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 20:22:40 +0100, Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) wrote:
Even setscrews can have different profile and thickness heads of course. Brian Pan head screw. |
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#19
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Name that screw
On 21/10/2020 18:55, soup wrote:
I don't think it has ever been detailed when a machine screw becomes a bolt. When it has a piece of plain unthreaded shank. -- The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about. Anon. |
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#20
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Name that screw
"soup" wrote in message ... But then much like the difference between a ship and a boat, I don't think it has ever been detailed when a machine screw becomes a bolt. A bolt is threaded into a nut to tighten it, A screw is threaded into a female thread, or as in the case of woodscrews creates it own female thread. Because a bolt can be used to join components through an unthreaded hole there's no necessity for the thread to go all the way to the end. However this is purely incidental. Standard pattern woodscrews are plain at the end but are still screws. Whereas machine screws can be used with nuts through unthreaded holes, in which case they're functioning as bolts. michael adams .... |
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#21
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Name that screw
On Wednesday, 21 October 2020 18:17:32 UTC+1, rick wrote:
I have a need to find a replacement screw Luckily thread is nothing esoteric M4 x 8 If a Phillip head .... but the head is fairly wide ~10mm and pretty thin. Anybody know if there is a name for this type of screw ... https://flic.kr/p/2jXJRyz This link takes you to numerous forms of pan head screw: https://www.accu.co.uk/en/161-pan-head-screws Good, clear pictures. |
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#22
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Name that screw
On 22/10/2020 08:27:31, michael adams wrote:
"soup" wrote in message ... But then much like the difference between a ship and a boat, I don't think it has ever been detailed when a machine screw becomes a bolt. A bolt is threaded into a nut to tighten it, A screw is threaded into a female thread, or as in the case of woodscrews creates it own female thread. Because a bolt can be used to join components through an unthreaded hole there's no necessity for the thread to go all the way to the end. However this is purely incidental. The convention is that a bolt is not wholly threaded along it's length. If it is, them it would normally be called a machine screw. It's not normally considered 'coincidental'? Standard pattern woodscrews are plain at the end but are still screws. Whereas machine screws can be used with nuts through unthreaded holes, in which case they're functioning as bolts. I have always believed that bolts were designed to assist in location, apart from being cheaper to make than machine screws. Unfortunately the wikipedia entry for Machine Screws is ASME / US based. |
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#23
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Name that screw
On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 18:17:27 +0100, rick
wrote: I have a need to find a replacement screw Luckily thread is nothing esoteric M4 x 8 If a Phillip head .... but the head is fairly wide ~10mm and pretty thin. Anybody know if there is a name for this type of screw ... https://flic.kr/p/2jXJRyz Fulton Mackay? |
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#24
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Name that screw
In article ,
michael adams wrote: "soup" wrote in message ... But then much like the difference between a ship and a boat, I don't think it has ever been detailed when a machine screw becomes a bolt. A bolt is threaded into a nut to tighten it, A screw is threaded into a female thread, or as in the case of woodscrews creates it own female thread. Because a bolt can be used to join components through an unthreaded hole there's no necessity for the thread to go all the way to the end. However this is purely incidental. Standard pattern woodscrews are plain at the end but are still screws. Whereas machine screws can be used with nuts through unthreaded holes, in which case they're functioning as bolts. Never worked on a car engine? You'll find plenty bolts on that - only part threaded - that go into a casting. So no nut. The non threaded part is larger than the thread so helps to locate what it's fixing more accurately. The reason - apart from strength - that a bolt is used. -- *Acupuncture is a jab well done* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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#25
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Name that screw
In article ,
John Rumm wrote: On 21/10/2020 18:17, rick wrote: I have a need to find a replacement screw Luckily thread is nothing esoteric M4 x 8 If a Phillip head .... but the head is fairly wide ~10mm and pretty thin. Anybody know if there is a name for this type of screw ... https://flic.kr/p/2jXJRyz try "pan head". Pan head is perhaps the most common none CSK type. I'd guess the OP is looking for a larger diameter head than that. The sort used for fixing sheet materials of various types. -- *Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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#26
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Name that screw
"Fredxx" wrote in message ... On 22/10/2020 08:27:31, michael adams wrote: "soup" wrote in message ... But then much like the difference between a ship and a boat, I don't think it has ever been detailed when a machine screw becomes a bolt. A bolt is threaded into a nut to tighten it, A screw is threaded into a female thread, or as in the case of woodscrews creates it own female thread. Because a bolt can be used to join components through an unthreaded hole there's no necessity for the thread to go all the way to the end. However this is purely incidental. The convention is that a bolt is not wholly threaded along it's length. If it is, them it would normally be called a machine screw. It's not normally considered 'coincidental'? It is purely "incidental". The different threading on nuts and bolts is a direct result of the different functions they were designed to perform. Nobody decided to produce fasteners where the threading only went three quarters of the way along and then worked out what they could be used for - joining components through unthreaded holes which could then be tightened with a nut. What they needed to produce was something which could join components through an unthreaded hole which could be tightened with a nut - which is what we call a bolt. The fact that the threading on this fastner doesn't need to cover the entire length is purely incidental. The bolt could work equally well if it was threaded over its entire length, What defines nuts and bolts is the way they're used, not their appearance My previous explanation was entirely OTTOHM. However logical sounding definitions. once encountered, seem to stick in the memory.. quote A bolt is an externally threaded fastener designed for insertion through holes in assembled parts, and is normally intended to be tightened or released by torquing a nut. A screw is an externally threaded fastener capable of being inserted into holes in assembled parts, of mating with a preformed internal thread or forming its own thread, and of being tightened or released by torquing the head. Machinery's Handbook quote https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw#...bolt_and_screw Standard pattern woodscrews are plain at the end but are still screws. Whereas machine screws can be used with nuts through unthreaded holes, in which case they're functioning as bolts. I have always believed that bolts were designed to assist in location, apart from being cheaper to make than machine screws. Eh ? Its precisely the opposite. Provided the nut and the bolt head are big enough there's no necessary connection whatsoever between the bolt diameter and the hole through which its put, Even more so, if oversize washers are also used at either end. michael adams .... |
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#27
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Name that screw
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , michael adams wrote: "soup" wrote in message ... But then much like the difference between a ship and a boat, I don't think it has ever been detailed when a machine screw becomes a bolt. A bolt is threaded into a nut to tighten it, A screw is threaded into a female thread, or as in the case of woodscrews creates it own female thread. Because a bolt can be used to join components through an unthreaded hole there's no necessity for the thread to go all the way to the end. However this is purely incidental. Standard pattern woodscrews are plain at the end but are still screws. Whereas machine screws can be used with nuts through unthreaded holes, in which case they're functioning as bolts. Never worked on a car engine? You'll find plenty bolts on that - only part threaded - that go into a casting. The fact that they may look like bolts is immaterial. They in fact function as screws quote A bolt is an externally threaded fastener designed for insertion through holes in assembled parts, and is normally intended to be tightened or released by torquing a nut. A screw is an externally threaded fastener capable of being inserted into holes in assembled parts, of mating with a preformed internal thread or forming its own thread, and of being tightened or released by torquing the head. Machinery's Handbook quote https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw#...bolt_and_screw So no nut. The non threaded part is larger than the thread so helps to locate what it's fixing more accurately. The reason - apart from strength - that a bolt is used. Calling a particular machined fastener a "bolt" doesn't in fact make it any stronger than an identical machined fastener that someone else, more correctly I would suggest, calls a "screw". michael adams .... |
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#28
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Name that screw
On 22/10/2020 11:47:10, michael adams wrote:
"Fredxx" wrote in message ... On 22/10/2020 08:27:31, michael adams wrote: "soup" wrote in message ... But then much like the difference between a ship and a boat, I don't think it has ever been detailed when a machine screw becomes a bolt. A bolt is threaded into a nut to tighten it, A screw is threaded into a female thread, or as in the case of woodscrews creates it own female thread. Because a bolt can be used to join components through an unthreaded hole there's no necessity for the thread to go all the way to the end. However this is purely incidental. The convention is that a bolt is not wholly threaded along it's length. If it is, them it would normally be called a machine screw. It's not normally considered 'coincidental'? It is purely "incidental". The different threading on nuts and bolts is a direct result of the different functions they were designed to perform. I wouldn't call two entirely different functions 'coincidental'. Nobody decided to produce fasteners where the threading only went three quarters of the way along and then worked out what they could be used for - joining components through unthreaded holes which could then be tightened with a nut. I don't get your point. Bolts are generally cheaper to make and many bolts I have come across are intended to provide an element of location. A good example is attaching two castings together. There need be no nit where one is threaded and the other plain and a close fit to the bolt. What they needed to produce was something which could join components through an unthreaded hole which could be tightened with a nut - which is what we call a bolt. The fact that the threading on this fastner doesn't need to cover the entire length is purely incidental. The bolt could work equally well if it was threaded over its entire length, What defines nuts and bolts is the way they're used, not their appearance My previous explanation was entirely OTTOHM. However logical sounding definitions. once encountered, seem to stick in the memory.. quote A bolt is an externally threaded fastener designed for insertion through holes in assembled parts, and is normally intended to be tightened or released by torquing a nut. A screw is an externally threaded fastener capable of being inserted into holes in assembled parts, of mating with a preformed internal thread or forming its own thread, and of being tightened or released by torquing the head. Machinery's Handbook quote https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw#...bolt_and_screw Which I have already stated is USA centric. Standard pattern woodscrews are plain at the end but are still screws. Whereas machine screws can be used with nuts through unthreaded holes, in which case they're functioning as bolts. I have always believed that bolts were designed to assist in location, apart from being cheaper to make than machine screws. Eh ? Its precisely the opposite. Provided the nut and the bolt head are big enough there's no necessary connection whatsoever between the bolt diameter and the hole through which its put, Even more so, if oversize washers are also used at either end. Ah, I can see the problem. I can assure you a bolt, with a non-threaded portion can be used for location, whereas the indeterminate true diameter of a thread is going to be a sloppy fit. I can assure you a bolt can be used in castings and made captive without a nut. As Dave has said it seems you haven't worked much on cars. There is usually a very strong correlation between the hole size and bolt/screw. Anything else would be considered a bodge. |
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#29
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Name that screw
On 21/10/2020 21:21, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 20:21:57 +0100, RobH wrote: On 21/10/2020 18:55, soup wrote: On 21/10/2020 18:19, Andrew wrote: On 21/10/2020 18:17, rick wrote: I have a need to find a replacement screw Luckily thread is nothing esotericÂ*Â* M4 x 8 If a Phillip head .... but the head is fairly wide ~10mm and pretty thin. Anybody know if there is a name for this type of screwÂ* ... https://flic.kr/p/2jXJRyz I would call that a bolt of some sort, rather than a screw. Does it taper at all at the 'sharp' end ?. Difficult to say from the pic. Â*Machine screw. Â*But then much like the difference between a ship and a boat, I don't think it has ever been detailed when a machine screw becomes a bolt. A bolt usually has a 6 sided head on it for a spanner, while a screw has a slot or similar for a screwdriver. Tell that to a coach screw! No, a bolt has an unthreaded section. A screw is threaded all the way along. There are machine screws, and wood screws, and grub screws, and... I was in steelwork engineering for most of my working life, so what do I know.. i didn't say anything about the thread. |
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#30
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Name that screw
"Fredxx" wrote in message ... On 22/10/2020 11:47:10, michael adams wrote: "Fredxx" wrote in message ... On 22/10/2020 08:27:31, michael adams wrote: "soup" wrote in message ... But then much like the difference between a ship and a boat, I don't think it has ever been detailed when a machine screw becomes a bolt. A bolt is threaded into a nut to tighten it, A screw is threaded into a female thread, or as in the case of woodscrews creates it own female thread. Because a bolt can be used to join components through an unthreaded hole there's no necessity for the thread to go all the way to the end. However this is purely incidental. The convention is that a bolt is not wholly threaded along it's length. If it is, them it would normally be called a machine screw. It's not normally considered 'coincidental'? It is purely "incidental". The different threading on nuts and bolts is a direct result of the different functions they were designed to perform. I wouldn't call two entirely different functions 'coincidental'. Nobody decided to produce fasteners where the threading only went three quarters of the way along and then worked out what they could be used for - joining components through unthreaded holes which could then be tightened with a nut. I don't get your point. Bolts are generally cheaper to make and many bolts I have come across are intended to provide an element of location. A good example is attaching two castings together. There need be no nit where one is threaded and the other plain and a close fit to the bolt. What they needed to produce was something which could join components through an unthreaded hole which could be tightened with a nut - which is what we call a bolt. The fact that the threading on this fastner doesn't need to cover the entire length is purely incidental. The bolt could work equally well if it was threaded over its entire length, What defines nuts and bolts is the way they're used, not their appearance My previous explanation was entirely OTTOHM. However logical sounding definitions. once encountered, seem to stick in the memory.. quote A bolt is an externally threaded fastener designed for insertion through holes in assembled parts, and is normally intended to be tightened or released by torquing a nut. A screw is an externally threaded fastener capable of being inserted into holes in assembled parts, of mating with a preformed internal thread or forming its own thread, and of being tightened or released by torquing the head. Machinery's Handbook quote https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw#...bolt_and_screw Which I have already stated is USA centric. It's very simple really and there's nothing USA centric about it. A bolt is something you push through a hole with a thread on the end. That's it. It doesn't move after that. You shove a nut on the other end and you turn the nut to tighten the bolt. A screw is something you er screw into a threaded hole until you can't screw it in any further. Spot the difference ? Standard pattern woodscrews are plain at the end but are still screws. Whereas machine screws can be used with nuts through unthreaded holes, in which case they're functioning as bolts. I have always believed that bolts were designed to assist in location, apart from being cheaper to make than machine screws. Eh ? Its precisely the opposite. Provided the nut and the bolt head are big enough there's no necessary connection whatsoever between the bolt diameter and the hole through which its put, Even more so, if oversize washers are also used at either end. Ah, I can see the problem. I can assure you a bolt, with a non-threaded portion can be used for location, whereas the indeterminate true diameter of a thread is going to be a sloppy fit. I can assure you a bolt can be used in castings and made captive without a nut. As Dave has said it seems you haven't worked much on cars. They're screws not bolts. Like Dave and all the other "experts" you're understandably confused because they do admittedly look like bolts. However that's only going by appearences However like Dave, when you were screwing these "bolts" into these cylinder heads did you never stop and think "hold on, if I'm screwing these bolts into this cylinder head rather than just pushing them in and tightening them on the other side with a nut, like I do with all other bolts, why are they called "bolts" and not "screws" ? There is usually a very strong correlation between the hole size and bolt/screw. Anything else would be considered a bodge. But at least it *is* possible bodge with genuine bolts whereas it clearly isn't with the kind of nuts which you insist on calling bolts based solely on their appearance. michael adams .... |
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#31
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Name that screw
In article ,
michael adams wrote: Never worked on a car engine? You'll find plenty bolts on that - only part threaded - that go into a casting. The fact that they may look like bolts is immaterial. They in fact function as screws quote A bolt is an externally threaded fastener designed for insertion through holes in assembled parts, and is normally intended to be tightened or released by torquing a nut. A screw is an externally threaded fastener capable of being inserted into holes in assembled parts, of mating with a preformed internal thread or forming its own thread, and of being tightened or released by torquing the head. Machinery's Handbook quote Hmm. So why do we have nuts and bolts if a bolt describes the whole thing? -- *When did my wild oats turn to prunes and all bran? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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#32
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Name that screw
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , michael adams wrote: Never worked on a car engine? You'll find plenty bolts on that - only part threaded - that go into a casting. The fact that they may look like bolts is immaterial. They in fact function as screws quote A bolt is an externally threaded fastener designed for insertion through holes in assembled parts, and is normally intended to be tightened or released by torquing a nut. A screw is an externally threaded fastener capable of being inserted into holes in assembled parts, of mating with a preformed internal thread or forming its own thread, and of being tightened or released by torquing the head. Machinery's Handbook quote Hmm. So why do we have nuts and bolts if a bolt describes the whole thing? Eh ? Where does "a bolt" describe the whole thing. You push the bolt through the hole and then place a nut on the end, and then tighten the nut. If you don't screw a nut on the end and tighten it, then the bolt may possibly work loose and eventually fall out. Admittedly what you call cylinder head "bolts" don't have nuts. But that's only because they're screws and and not bolts. Whereas cylinder head "studs", which are first screwed into the head, then do then function as "bolts"; as they don't move any further, and are secured by cylinder head nuts. michael adams .... |
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#33
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Name that screw
On 22/10/2020 13:16:43, michael adams wrote:
"Fredxx" wrote in message ... On 22/10/2020 11:47:10, michael adams wrote: "Fredxx" wrote in message ... On 22/10/2020 08:27:31, michael adams wrote: "soup" wrote in message ... But then much like the difference between a ship and a boat, I don't think it has ever been detailed when a machine screw becomes a bolt. A bolt is threaded into a nut to tighten it, A screw is threaded into a female thread, or as in the case of woodscrews creates it own female thread. Because a bolt can be used to join components through an unthreaded hole there's no necessity for the thread to go all the way to the end. However this is purely incidental. The convention is that a bolt is not wholly threaded along it's length. If it is, them it would normally be called a machine screw. It's not normally considered 'coincidental'? It is purely "incidental". The different threading on nuts and bolts is a direct result of the different functions they were designed to perform. I wouldn't call two entirely different functions 'coincidental'. Nobody decided to produce fasteners where the threading only went three quarters of the way along and then worked out what they could be used for - joining components through unthreaded holes which could then be tightened with a nut. I don't get your point. Bolts are generally cheaper to make and many bolts I have come across are intended to provide an element of location. A good example is attaching two castings together. There need be no nit where one is threaded and the other plain and a close fit to the bolt. What they needed to produce was something which could join components through an unthreaded hole which could be tightened with a nut - which is what we call a bolt. The fact that the threading on this fastner doesn't need to cover the entire length is purely incidental. The bolt could work equally well if it was threaded over its entire length, What defines nuts and bolts is the way they're used, not their appearance My previous explanation was entirely OTTOHM. However logical sounding definitions. once encountered, seem to stick in the memory.. quote A bolt is an externally threaded fastener designed for insertion through holes in assembled parts, and is normally intended to be tightened or released by torquing a nut. A screw is an externally threaded fastener capable of being inserted into holes in assembled parts, of mating with a preformed internal thread or forming its own thread, and of being tightened or released by torquing the head. Machinery's Handbook quote https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw#...bolt_and_screw Which I have already stated is USA centric. It's very simple really and there's nothing USA centric about it. A bolt is something you push through a hole with a thread on the end. That's it. Only in the uninformed world. It doesn't move after that. You shove a nut on the other end and you turn the nut to tighten the bolt. A bolt doesn't have a nut. It can quite easily be screwed into a casting or similar. Quite, like a machine screw. A screw is something you er screw into a threaded hole until you can't screw it in any further. The purpose of a bolt or machine screw is for retention. I put a bolt into a threaded hold and can screw until I can't screw it in any further too. That would be the point of a bolt too. Spot the difference ? Yes, a bolt has a plain shank, sometimes used for location and a machine screw is fully threaded, aprt from say the top 1mm or so. Standard pattern woodscrews are plain at the end but are still screws. Whereas machine screws can be used with nuts through unthreaded holes, in which case they're functioning as bolts. I have always believed that bolts were designed to assist in location, apart from being cheaper to make than machine screws. Eh ? Its precisely the opposite. Provided the nut and the bolt head are big enough there's no necessary connection whatsoever between the bolt diameter and the hole through which its put, Even more so, if oversize washers are also used at either end. Ah, I can see the problem. I can assure you a bolt, with a non-threaded portion can be used for location, whereas the indeterminate true diameter of a thread is going to be a sloppy fit. I can assure you a bolt can be used in castings and made captive without a nut. As Dave has said it seems you haven't worked much on cars. They're screws not bolts. They would be called bolts in the UK and I would purchase bolts; where a portion of the bolt is plain and not threaded. Like Dave and all the other "experts" you're understandably confused because they do admittedly look like bolts. However that's only going by appearences I'm not an expert any more than you. You go to a supplier of fasteners and ask for machine screws or set screws and you'll get a fully threaded item. Ask for bolts and there will be a plain part. If critical it would be prudent to find out how long the plan part is. I believe there is an ISO standard. However like Dave, when you were screwing these "bolts" into these cylinder heads did you never stop and think "hold on, if I'm screwing these bolts into this cylinder head rather than just pushing them in and tightening them on the other side with a nut, like I do with all other bolts, why are they called "bolts" and not "screws" ? You are now saying a cylinder head bolt is a screw because retention is not by a nut. This is in the face of centuries of UK tradition. There is usually a very strong correlation between the hole size and bolt/screw. Anything else would be considered a bodge. But at least it *is* possible bodge with genuine bolts whereas it clearly isn't with the kind of nuts which you insist on calling bolts based solely on their appearance. I think you're getting confused with nuts and bolts. I have never called a nut a bolt or visa-versa. This might assist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_screw Your beliefs are USA centric. This link may help: https://www.accu.co.uk/en/p/131-diff...rews-and-bolts If you live in the UK I find it best to follow UK convention. YMMV |
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#34
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Name that screw
On 21/10/2020 19:16, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , soup wrote: On 21/10/2020 18:19, Andrew wrote: On 21/10/2020 18:17, rick wrote: I have a need to find a replacement screw Luckily thread is nothing esoteric M4 x 8 If a Phillip head .... but the head is fairly wide ~10mm and pretty thin. Anybody know if there is a name for this type of screw ... https://flic.kr/p/2jXJRyz I would call that a bolt of some sort, rather than a screw. Does it taper at all at the 'sharp' end ?. Difficult to say from the pic. Machine screw. But then much like the difference between a ship and a boat, I don't think it has ever been detailed when a machine screw becomes a bolt. I was taught a bolt isn't threaded all the way. One that is is a machine screw. I have plenty of hexagon-headed bolts where the thread goes right uup to the head though. |
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#35
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Name that screw
On 22/10/2020 08:27, michael adams wrote:
A bolt is threaded into a nut to tighten it, A screw is threaded into a female thread, or as in the case of woodscrews creates it own female thread. Is a cylinder head bolt, a bolt or a machine screw ?. |
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#36
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Name that screw
"Andrew" wrote in message ... On 22/10/2020 08:27, michael adams wrote: A bolt is threaded into a nut to tighten it, A screw is threaded into a female thread, or as in the case of woodscrews creates it own female thread. Is a cylinder head bolt, a bolt or a machine screw ?. Possibly this may help clarify things. Functionally its a screw, as its screwed into a thread; rather than being secured with a nut as is a bolt. The fact that people mistakenly refer to them as "bolts" based solely on their appearance rather than on their function is unfortunate. Whereas cylinder head "studs", which are first screwed into the head, then do then function as "bolts"; as they don't move any further, and are secured by cylinder head nuts. michael adams .... |
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#37
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Name that screw
"michael adams" wrote in message ... "Andrew" wrote in message ... On 22/10/2020 08:27, michael adams wrote: A bolt is threaded into a nut to tighten it, A screw is threaded into a female thread, or as in the case of woodscrews creates it own female thread. Is a cylinder head bolt, a bolt or a machine screw ?. Possibly this may help clarify things. Functionally its a screw, as its screwed into a thread; rather than being secured with a nut as is a bolt. The fact that people mistakenly refer to them as "bolts" based solely on their appearance rather than on their function is unfortunate. Whereas cylinder head "studs", which are first screwed into the head, Oops ! Make that screwed into the block. Doubtless other posters will be along in hours to come, to point out this error. then do then function as "bolts"; as they don't move any further, and are secured by cylinder head nuts. michael adams ... |
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#38
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Name that screw
In article ,
michael adams wrote: Hmm. So why do we have nuts and bolts if a bolt describes the whole thing? Eh ? Where does "a bolt" describe the whole thing. You push the bolt through the hole and then place a nut on the end, and then tighten the nut. But you've said a bolt is only a bolt if it has a nut. No nut, it's not a bolt but a machine screw. -- *Of course I'm against sin; I'm against anything that I'm too old to enjoy. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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#39
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Name that screw
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
... In article , michael adams wrote: Hmm. So why do we have nuts and bolts if a bolt describes the whole thing? Eh ? Where does "a bolt" describe the whole thing. You push the bolt through the hole and then place a nut on the end, and then tighten the nut. But you've said a bolt is only a bolt if it has a nut. No nut, it's not a bolt but a machine screw. What *is* the correct distinction between a bolt (which is intended to be screwed into a nut, sandwiching something between bolt head and nut)) and a machine screw which is designed to be screwed into a larger frame? I presume both a bolt and a machine screw of a given diameter and thread pitch can be used interchangeably in either role. |
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#40
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Name that screw
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , michael adams wrote: Hmm. So why do we have nuts and bolts if a bolt describes the whole thing? Eh ? Where does "a bolt" describe the whole thing. You push the bolt through the hole and then place a nut on the end, and then tighten the nut. But you've said a bolt is only a bolt if it has a nut. No nut, it's not a bolt but a machine screw. Indeed. So if cylinder head bolts don't require nuts then they're not bolts but screws; as I said . As to the precise definition of machine screws as against any other type of screw, say set screws, I have no strong opinions either way. The generic term "screw" will suffice. BTW you seemed to have overlooked my rather unfortunate error in saying that studs are threaded into cylinder heads; rather than what I should have said, threaded into cylinder blocks. michael adams .... -- *Of course I'm against sin; I'm against anything that I'm too old to enjoy. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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