I've always thought it very useful with dogs that are light enough to be
picked up to have a safe method of doing it. It's important that the dog
is used to it and knows what to expect, so it needs to be practiced.
My method:
Squat down but keep your back straight.
Assuming you are facing the left side of the dog, so its head is to your
left. Put your left arm under the dog's chest with your hand facing
upwards. This means turning your arm anticlockwise. With your left hand
hold the dog's front right leg quite firmly just below the shoulder. At
this stage it's awkward for you because your arm is turned as far
anticlockwise as far as it will go. Simultaneously sweep your right arm
leftwards towards the dog's bum, holding down the tail. Your arm will
then be supporting the dog at the top of the back legs/bum area.
Stand up keeping your back straight, and lifting the dog. Lift the front
of the dog higher than the back. That allows your arm to rotate
clockwise to a more comfortable position. The dog's weight should be
roughly the same on both of your arms. The dog should be comfortable
because its weight is on naturally load-bearing parts: the bum/back legs
and the front shoulders, rather than on the chest.
I don't know anyone else who lifts dogs this way but it works for me.
When I took Bella to the vets he was surprised at how easily I lifted
her onto the table and how calm she was about it. It does depend very
much on the dog being used to it though. My old labs used to come to me
when we reached an obstruction on a walk and ask to be lifted over. I
couldn't lift a lab now though! Bella is just about capable of climbing
in and out of the van but will scrounge a lift if she can get away with
it. (She tried to be a stowaway the other day; attempted to jump into
the back of the van when I wasn't looking. It ended ignominiously for her.)

Bill

On 24/09/2020 10:56, williamwright wrote:

I've always thought it very useful with dogs that are light enough to be
picked up to have a safe method of doing it. It's important that the dog
is used to it and knows what to expect, so it needs to be practiced.
My method:
Squat down but keep your back straight.
Assuming you are facing the left side of the dog, so its head is to your
left. Put your left arm under the dog's chest with your hand facing
upwards. This means turning your arm anticlockwise. With your left hand
hold the dog's front right leg quite firmly just below the shoulder. At
this stage it's awkward for you because your arm is turned as far
anticlockwise as far as it will go. Simultaneously sweep your right arm
leftwards towards the dog's bum, holding down the tail. Your arm will
then be supporting the dog at the top of the back legs/bum area.
Stand up keeping your back straight, and lifting the dog. Lift the front
of the dog higher than the back. That allows your arm to rotate
clockwise to a more comfortable position. The dog's weight should be
roughly the same on both of your arms. The dog should be comfortable
because its weight is on naturally load-bearing parts: the bum/back legs
and the front shoulders, rather than on the chest.
I don't know anyone else who lifts dogs this way but it works for me.
When I took Bella to the vets he was surprised at how easily I lifted
her onto the table and how calm she was about it. It does depend very
much on the dog being used to it though. My old labs used to come to me
when we reached an obstruction on a walk and ask to be lifted over. I
couldn't lift a lab now though! Bella is just about capable of climbing
in and out of the van but will scrounge a lift if she can get away with
it. (She tried to be a stowaway the other day; attempted to jump into
the back of the van when I wasn't looking. It ended ignominiously for her.)

Bill

The Jack Russell cross whatever that I see regularly, can jump up to
waist height when is delighted to see me, despite having diddly legs.

On 24/09/2020 11:11, Andrew wrote:
On 24/09/2020 10:56, williamwright wrote:



The Jack Russell cross whatever that I see regularly, can jump up to
waist height when is delighted to see me, despite having diddly legs.

For a Jack Russell you could adapt the DIY cat carrier constructed from
a hacksaw frame
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjJEMx_KJU

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 24/09/2020 10:56, williamwright wrote:

I've always thought it very useful with dogs that are light enough to be
picked up to have a safe method of doing it. It's important that the dog
is used to it and knows what to expect, so it needs to be practiced.
My method:
Squat down but keep your back straight.
Assuming you are facing the left side of the dog, so its head is to your
left. Put your left arm under the dog's chest with your hand facing
upwards. This means turning your arm anticlockwise. With your left hand
hold the dog's front right leg quite firmly just below the shoulder. At
this stage it's awkward for you because your arm is turned as far
anticlockwise as far as it will go. Simultaneously sweep your right arm
leftwards towards the dog's bum, holding down the tail. Your arm will
then be supporting the dog at the top of the back legs/bum area.
Stand up keeping your back straight, and lifting the dog. Lift the front
of the dog higher than the back. That allows your arm to rotate
clockwise to a more comfortable position. The dog's weight should be
roughly the same on both of your arms. The dog should be comfortable
because its weight is on naturally load-bearing parts: the bum/back legs
and the front shoulders, rather than on the chest.
I don't know anyone else who lifts dogs this way but it works for me.
When I took Bella to the vets he was surprised at how easily I lifted
her onto the table and how calm she was about it. It does depend very
much on the dog being used to it though. My old labs used to come to me
when we reached an obstruction on a walk and ask to be lifted over. I
couldn't lift a lab now though! Bella is just about capable of climbing
in and out of the van but will scrounge a lift if she can get away with
it. (She tried to be a stowaway the other day; attempted to jump into
the back of the van when I wasn't looking. It ended ignominiously for her.)

Bill

Well it does rather depend on the size and breed of the dog. Ex-racing
greyhounds are very used to being handled and normally put up zero
resistance (although my current, old one is the exception: any attempt
to pick him up results in the greyhound scream of death). But for normal
greyhounds the technique is to pretend to be a fork lift truck. Bend
elbows at 90 degrees, taking due care of one's own back slide one arm
behind front legs into crook of elbow, and the other in front of back
legs similarly and then it is a straight lift.

Racing greyhounds typically weigh between 30 and 40 kg (depends on sex)
so you do need to be fit, and it's best if you have been properly
trained for industrial lifting.

On 24/09/2020 11:11, Andrew wrote:
The Jack Russell cross whatever that I see regularly, can jump up to
waist height when is delighted to see me, despite having diddly legs.

Jack Russells dont realise they are small dogs :-)
They can jump to a height of 5 feet and will dig under fences to escape.
They are rocket propelled nut jobs.

On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 10:56:35 +0100, williamwright
wrote:


I've always thought it very useful with dogs that are light enough to be
picked up to have a safe method of doing it.

snip

Given your recent reply regarding live stock recently:

"If I and many others were to be deprived of our steaks we would
have two thoughts: 1. How can I beat the system and get steak?, and 2.
I hate the *******s who caused this shortage of steak."

So I would have thought you wouldn't bother lifting the animal at all,
but just drag it by one leg manually, or if it was an adult animal you
were moving, just drag it with a tractor or forklift?

Or do you practice (logically inconsistent) speciesism?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciesism

Just wonderin ...

Cheers, T i m

Yes I had a lab Retriever cross. Do beware of dog straight out of river
syndrome, not only a lot heavier, but very smelly and wet.

Brian

--
--
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"williamwright" wrote in message
...

I've always thought it very useful with dogs that are light enough to be
picked up to have a safe method of doing it. It's important that the dog
is used to it and knows what to expect, so it needs to be practiced.
My method:
Squat down but keep your back straight.
Assuming you are facing the left side of the dog, so its head is to your
left. Put your left arm under the dog's chest with your hand facing
upwards. This means turning your arm anticlockwise. With your left hand
hold the dog's front right leg quite firmly just below the shoulder. At
this stage it's awkward for you because your arm is turned as far
anticlockwise as far as it will go. Simultaneously sweep your right arm
leftwards towards the dog's bum, holding down the tail. Your arm will then
be supporting the dog at the top of the back legs/bum area.
Stand up keeping your back straight, and lifting the dog. Lift the front
of the dog higher than the back. That allows your arm to rotate clockwise
to a more comfortable position. The dog's weight should be roughly the
same on both of your arms. The dog should be comfortable because its
weight is on naturally load-bearing parts: the bum/back legs and the front
shoulders, rather than on the chest.
I don't know anyone else who lifts dogs this way but it works for me. When
I took Bella to the vets he was surprised at how easily I lifted her onto
the table and how calm she was about it. It does depend very much on the
dog being used to it though. My old labs used to come to me when we
reached an obstruction on a walk and ask to be lifted over. I couldn't
lift a lab now though! Bella is just about capable of climbing in and out
of the van but will scrounge a lift if she can get away with it. (She
tried to be a stowaway the other day; attempted to jump into the back of
the van when I wasn't looking. It ended ignominiously for her.)

Bill

On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 12:02:27 +0100, newshound
wrote:

snip

I've always thought it very useful with dogs that are light enough to be
picked up to have a safe method of doing it. It's important that the dog
is used to it and knows what to expect, so it needs to be practiced.
snip

Well it does rather depend on the size and breed of the dog.

The two Bull Mastives that daughter had to collect on behalf of the
local council that had actually been 'dumped' at the side of the road
had to be slid up a ramp into the back of the van because they were so
heavy and in such a bad condition.

They looked like they were a breeding pair and (she) had been bread to
near death and both were covered in cuts and sores.

They took them to the vets and the vat said their was nothing he could
do for either of them, other then allow them to go to sleep forever.

Daughter asked if she could stay and had the bitches head in arm and
was stoking her. The vet said she could go but she preferred to stay,
so she could at least give the dog a little bit of love at the end of
what was obviously a highly exploited life. ;-(

The Pomchi that was my stepdaughters (before she died of cancer last
year) you could pick up by sliding one hand under her chest and
holding her to you, assuming she wasn't trying to get free and get at
something / one. The Cavashon that was also hers needed two arms, like
a forlkift, under her bum and chest. She would sometimes put one paw
over your arm, as per Bills dog.

Ex-racing
greyhounds are very used to being handled and normally put up zero
resistance (although my current, old one is the exception: any attempt
to pick him up results in the greyhound scream of death).

Yeah, we are still looking after the lurcher that was collected as a
stray (cut and bruised and hiding under a hedge) and you pick him up
the same way as the Cavashon (and how we normally pick up most dogs in
fact) but he's more like a big bundle of legs.

But for normal
greyhounds the technique is to pretend to be a fork lift truck. Bend
elbows at 90 degrees, taking due care of one's own back slide one arm
behind front legs into crook of elbow, and the other in front of back
legs similarly and then it is a straight lift.

I tend to do it from the outside so they sort of sit on you arm and
you are also holding them under the front shoulders.

Racing greyhounds typically weigh between 30 and 40 kg (depends on sex)
so you do need to be fit, and it's best if you have been properly
trained for industrial lifting.

Yeah, we meet a couple on our walks and they are big as ponys and make
the lurcher looks quite small!

It's funny to see the lurcher and daughters terrier walking. The (mid
sized) terrier looks like he's got clockwork legs with his head on
some sort of auto-aiming gimbal, nose always 10 thou off the ground.
The lucher walks like a horse with a much longer 'trot' stride (and
runs like the wind of course).

He's fun to watch when playing with a load of other dogs because he is
*sooo* manoeuvrable. You see him running in / round / between / over /
under all the others, seemingly turning 90 degrees or even 180 degrees
in an instant. Nothing else has yet been able to keep up with him,
with the other owners surprised as they thought 'they' had the fastest
dog on the block. ;-)

That said, sisters big whippet leaves him for standing (and you need a
pretty big field to get her safely get up to full speed) but I don't
think she's a manoeuvrable as the lurcher.

The terrier doesn't like anything he thinks could be aggression, like
if two dogs are playing a bit boisterously, running between them like
a referee. Mrs came back with him from a walk earlier as a mate
dropped something off and the Terrier was just sitting on the front
door mat with mate half way down the path and the Mrs by the front
door. Mate made a move, (punching his own hand) and the terrier
jumped up and barked at him because he sensed it was an 'aggressive'
action (and could have been done towards the Mrs).

If only they could really talk and tell you what they went though
before they came to you ... ;-(

Cheers, T i m

williamwright wrote:

I've always thought it very useful with dogs that are light enough to be
picked up to have a safe method of doing it. It's important that the dog
is used to it and knows what to expect, so it needs to be practiced.
My method:
Squat down but keep your back straight.
Assuming you are facing the left side of the dog, so its head is to your
left. Put your left arm under the dog's chest with your hand facing
upwards. This means turning your arm anticlockwise. With your left hand
hold the dog's front right leg quite firmly just below the shoulder. At
this stage it's awkward for you because your arm is turned as far
anticlockwise as far as it will go. Simultaneously sweep your right arm
leftwards towards the dog's bum, holding down the tail. Your arm will
then be supporting the dog at the top of the back legs/bum area.
Stand up keeping your back straight, and lifting the dog. Lift the front
of the dog higher than the back. That allows your arm to rotate
clockwise to a more comfortable position. The dog's weight should be
roughly the same on both of your arms. The dog should be comfortable
because its weight is on naturally load-bearing parts: the bum/back legs
and the front shoulders, rather than on the chest.
I don't know anyone else who lifts dogs this way but it works for me.
When I took Bella to the vets he was surprised at how easily I lifted
her onto the table and how calm she was about it. It does depend very
much on the dog being used to it though. My old labs used to come to me
when we reached an obstruction on a walk and ask to be lifted over. I
couldn't lift a lab now though! Bella is just about capable of climbing
in and out of the van but will scrounge a lift if she can get away with
it. (She tried to be a stowaway the other day; attempted to jump into
the back of the van when I wasn't looking. It ended ignominiously for her.)

Bill


It depends on the size but the basic idea is similar until you get to large
dogs.

Small ones, a hand between the front legs, from the side, and another to
support the rear.


Slightly larger dogs, you adjust this mainly as it isnt so easy to contain
them in your hands so you need to involve your forearms. Once you do it a
few times, it becomes natural.

Larger still, you either scoop up their legs or place forearms under chest
and belly or around rear, depending on reach / dog size.

The dog needs to feel secure but not crushed.

A good vet will show you.

The beauty of the above methods are the adapt as the dog grows and, should
you need to, they make it easy to hand the dog to someone else.

On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 23:42:34 +0000, Radio Man wrote:

williamwright wrote:

I've always thought it very useful with dogs that are light enough to
be picked up to have a safe method of doing it. It's important that the
dog is used to it and knows what to expect, so it needs to be
practiced.
My method:
Squat down but keep your back straight.
Assuming you are facing the left side of the dog, so its head is to
your left. Put your left arm under the dog's chest with your hand
facing upwards. This means turning your arm anticlockwise. With your
left hand hold the dog's front right leg quite firmly just below the
shoulder. At this stage it's awkward for you because your arm is turned
as far anticlockwise as far as it will go. Simultaneously sweep your
right arm leftwards towards the dog's bum, holding down the tail. Your
arm will then be supporting the dog at the top of the back legs/bum
area.
Stand up keeping your back straight, and lifting the dog. Lift the
front of the dog higher than the back. That allows your arm to rotate
clockwise to a more comfortable position. The dog's weight should be
roughly the same on both of your arms. The dog should be comfortable
because its weight is on naturally load-bearing parts: the bum/back
legs and the front shoulders, rather than on the chest.
I don't know anyone else who lifts dogs this way but it works for me.
When I took Bella to the vets he was surprised at how easily I lifted
her onto the table and how calm she was about it. It does depend very
much on the dog being used to it though. My old labs used to come to me
when we reached an obstruction on a walk and ask to be lifted over. I
couldn't lift a lab now though! Bella is just about capable of climbing
in and out of the van but will scrounge a lift if she can get away with
it. (She tried to be a stowaway the other day; attempted to jump into
the back of the van when I wasn't looking. It ended ignominiously for
her.)

Bill


It depends on the size but the basic idea is similar until you get to
large dogs.

Small ones, a hand between the front legs, from the side, and another to
support the rear.


Slightly larger dogs, you adjust this mainly as it isnt so easy to
contain them in your hands so you need to involve your forearms. Once
you do it a few times, it becomes natural.

Larger still, you either scoop up their legs or place forearms under
chest and belly or around rear, depending on reach / dog size.

The dog needs to feel secure but not crushed.

A good vet will show you.

The beauty of the above methods are the adapt as the dog grows and,
should you need to, they make it easy to hand the dog to someone else.

I used to pick up my standing Dobermann by putting my arms around his 4
legs and scoop him up, with body resting in a cradle like pose.

Smolley wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 23:42:34 +0000, Radio Man wrote:

williamwright wrote:

I've always thought it very useful with dogs that are light enough to
be picked up to have a safe method of doing it. It's important that the
dog is used to it and knows what to expect, so it needs to be
practiced.
My method:
Squat down but keep your back straight.
Assuming you are facing the left side of the dog, so its head is to
your left. Put your left arm under the dog's chest with your hand
facing upwards. This means turning your arm anticlockwise. With your
left hand hold the dog's front right leg quite firmly just below the
shoulder. At this stage it's awkward for you because your arm is turned
as far anticlockwise as far as it will go. Simultaneously sweep your
right arm leftwards towards the dog's bum, holding down the tail. Your
arm will then be supporting the dog at the top of the back legs/bum
area.
Stand up keeping your back straight, and lifting the dog. Lift the
front of the dog higher than the back. That allows your arm to rotate
clockwise to a more comfortable position. The dog's weight should be
roughly the same on both of your arms. The dog should be comfortable
because its weight is on naturally load-bearing parts: the bum/back
legs and the front shoulders, rather than on the chest.
I don't know anyone else who lifts dogs this way but it works for me.
When I took Bella to the vets he was surprised at how easily I lifted
her onto the table and how calm she was about it. It does depend very
much on the dog being used to it though. My old labs used to come to me
when we reached an obstruction on a walk and ask to be lifted over. I
couldn't lift a lab now though! Bella is just about capable of climbing
in and out of the van but will scrounge a lift if she can get away with
it. (She tried to be a stowaway the other day; attempted to jump into
the back of the van when I wasn't looking. It ended ignominiously for
her.)

Bill


It depends on the size but the basic idea is similar until you get to
large dogs.

Small ones, a hand between the front legs, from the side, and another to
support the rear.


Slightly larger dogs, you adjust this mainly as it isnt so easy to
contain them in your hands so you need to involve your forearms. Once
you do it a few times, it becomes natural.

Larger still, you either scoop up their legs or place forearms under
chest and belly or around rear, depending on reach / dog size.

The dog needs to feel secure but not crushed.

A good vet will show you.

The beauty of the above methods are the adapt as the dog grows and,
should you need to, they make it easy to hand the dog to someone else.

I used to pick up my standing Dobermann by putting my arms around his 4
legs and scoop him up, with body resting in a cradle like pose.


Thats it, you scoop up their legs, if you can reach. Picking up a full
grown Doberman is hardwork ;-)
As for exercise......

Which brings me to a pet hate of mine:

I do worry when I see people with several dogs whether they have the space
at home for them to run around etc. Keeping even a small dog in a pokey
flat is like putting it in prison yet, so called, animal lovers, keep
several dogs in pokey flats.

Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) wrote:
Yes I had a lab Retriever cross. Do beware of dog straight out of river
syndrome, not only a lot heavier, but very smelly and wet.

Brian


Both lovely breeds.

ss wrote:
On 24/09/2020 11:11, Andrew wrote:
The Jack Russell cross whatever that I see regularly, can jump up to
waist height when is delighted to see me, despite having diddly legs.

Jack Russells dont realise they are small dogs :-)
They can jump to a height of 5 feet and will dig under fences to escape.
They are rocket propelled nut jobs.



Probably one of the funniest dogs to watch play with a ball. Give one a
large football, they love it.

On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 08:06:07 -0000 (UTC), Radio Man
wrote:

snip

Which brings me to a pet hate of mine:

You have a load of those don't you Brain?

I do worry when I see people with several dogs whether they have the space
at home for them to run around etc.

What about if they have one dog?

Keeping even a small dog in a pokey
flat is like putting it in prison yet,

Is it? What's that like then, prison?

How would a 'poky flat' be compared with say having to live with you
(and their constant fear of being killed and eaten) or being left
outside in a kennel or being left alone in a crate in big house all
day?

so called, animal lovers, keep
several dogs in pokey flats.

Sorry, have you just read a news headline in the Sun or something?

See, again, what you aren't able to see is the 'bigger picture', like
what actually matters to a dog and how you treat dogs (say)
differently to lambs, piglets, calves or chicks and chickens?

https://ibb.co/fG4MVBJ

https://ibb.co/N2zFBJh

Most dogs, especially older ones (and even greyhounds) are quite happy
to sleep much of the day, as long as they are getting sufficient (and
that varies by breed, age, health etc) exercise *and* enrichment.

Like, taking your dog on a long walk may not be sufficient exercise,
if it's the sort of dog that likes to run (like the lurcher we are
currently giving convalescence to). We can walk both him and the
terrier 5 miles (and do most days), the terrier would be happy with
that (but would also be happy to carry on walking or doing stuff, if
there was stuff to do) whereas the lurcher still wouldn't settle
without a free run (ideally with other dogs).

Step daughters cavashon lived in a flat but the flat was right next to
a park so was out the front door and off the lead straight away.
However, if you took her out for a reasonable walk in the morning, she
wouldn't want (and would go back to the flat) if you tried to take her
out again, or if it was cold / raining in any case.

So, in between the walks, you need puzzles and games, hiding treats
around the house, putting treats in puzzles, play fighting and
throwing toys for fetch, if they like that sort of thing.

So what matters more (ITRW) than how large your home or garden, but
how much of a home you give your dog and what sort of life and love
and attention it gets.

And it's not just dogs of course, most animals are inquisitive, can be
trusting (even 'wild' animals) until something happens to them to
change that (or they are killed).

The worst thing is when they are made to suffer and / or killed, just
for peoples pleasure. ;-(

https://ibb.co/G2cZx1G

Cheers, T i m

On 24/09/2020 23:45:56, T i m wrote:

snip

Daughter asked if she could stay and had the bitches head in arm and
was stoking her. The vet said she could go but she preferred to stay,
so she could at least give the dog a little bit of love at the end of
what was obviously a highly exploited life. ;-(

So the solution is to ban pet ownership. Then there would be no further
exploitation by people like you.

No more animals dumped on the road to be put down by a vet. What's there
not to like?

T i m wrote:
On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 08:06:07 -0000 (UTC), Radio Man
wrote:

snip

Which brings me to a pet hate of mine:

You have a load of those don't you Brain?

I do worry when I see people with several dogs whether they have the space
at home for them to run around etc.

What about if they have one dog?

Keeping even a small dog in a pokey
flat is like putting it in prison yet,

Is it? What's that like then, prison?

How would a 'poky flat' be compared with say having to live with you
(and their constant fear of being killed and eaten) or being left
outside in a kennel or being left alone in a crate in big house all
day?

so called, animal lovers, keep
several dogs in pokey flats.

Sorry, have you just read a news headline in the Sun or something?

See, again, what you aren't able to see is the 'bigger picture', like
what actually matters to a dog and how you treat dogs (say)
differently to lambs, piglets, calves or chicks and chickens?

https://ibb.co/fG4MVBJ

https://ibb.co/N2zFBJh

Most dogs, especially older ones (and even greyhounds) are quite happy
to sleep much of the day, as long as they are getting sufficient (and
that varies by breed, age, health etc) exercise *and* enrichment.

Like, taking your dog on a long walk may not be sufficient exercise,
if it's the sort of dog that likes to run (like the lurcher we are
currently giving convalescence to). We can walk both him and the
terrier 5 miles (and do most days), the terrier would be happy with
that (but would also be happy to carry on walking or doing stuff, if
there was stuff to do) whereas the lurcher still wouldn't settle
without a free run (ideally with other dogs).

Step daughters cavashon lived in a flat but the flat was right next to
a park so was out the front door and off the lead straight away.
However, if you took her out for a reasonable walk in the morning, she
wouldn't want (and would go back to the flat) if you tried to take her
out again, or if it was cold / raining in any case.

So, in between the walks, you need puzzles and games, hiding treats
around the house, putting treats in puzzles, play fighting and
throwing toys for fetch, if they like that sort of thing.

So what matters more (ITRW) than how large your home or garden, but
how much of a home you give your dog and what sort of life and love
and attention it gets.

And it's not just dogs of course, most animals are inquisitive, can be
trusting (even 'wild' animals) until something happens to them to
change that (or they are killed).

The worst thing is when they are made to suffer and / or killed, just
for peoples pleasure. ;-(

https://ibb.co/G2cZx1G

Cheers, T i m




Dont parks normally require dogs to be on leads? Irresponsible dog OWNERS
are a real problem.

Fancy not taking the dog out if it is raining.

On 24/09/2020 14:27:21, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 10:56:35 +0100, williamwright
wrote:


I've always thought it very useful with dogs that are light enough to be
picked up to have a safe method of doing it.

snip

Given your recent reply regarding live stock recently:

"If I and many others were to be deprived of our steaks we would
have two thoughts: 1. How can I beat the system and get steak?, and 2.
I hate the *******s who caused this shortage of steak."

So I would have thought you wouldn't bother lifting the animal at all,
but just drag it by one leg manually, or if it was an adult animal you
were moving, just drag it with a tractor or forklift?

The difference between you and me, and quite possibly Bill, if I would
do my best to stop the practice of lifting an animal, or dragging it by
one leg manually whilst an animal is aware of it's surroundings.

Whereas you would wank over any video of such animal abuse and use it to
further your campaign to force on others your enforced veganism.

You don't give a **** about animals. It's all about your jealousy to
anyone whose loved ones allow them to eat meat.

On 25/09/2020 09:06, Radio Man wrote:
I do worry when I see people with several dogs whether they have the space
at home for them to run around etc. Keeping even a small dog in a pokey
flat is like putting it in prison yet, so called, animal lovers, keep
several dogs in pokey flats.

I have a large house, which use to house two dogs. Once the daily 'hunt'
had been undertaken, they ate their dinners, and went to sleep. When
they woke up one would stare out of an upstairs window at what was
happening outside, and the other would laze round doing not much. They
never 'ran around'.



--
€œThe urge to save humanity is almost always only a false face for the
urge to rule it.€�
€“ H. L. Mencken

On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 09:00:37 -0000 (UTC), Radio Man
wrote:

snip for the lazy troll

Don’t parks normally require dogs to be on leads?

Not always, depending on the park. Many bylaws state they must simply
be 'Under control' and the owners must clear up after them.

Irresponsible dog OWNERS
are a real problem.

Absolutely.

Fancy not taking the dog out if it is raining.

Me, no probs, the dog might (and can, if it chooses to) have a
different view on it.

Our rescue whippet was petrified of umbrellas so I'm guessing you
would force her out in the rain eh? Probaby hit with one by her PO (it
wasn't you was it, for her not wanting to go out in the rain)?

Cheers, T i m

On 25/09/2020 12:07, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 09:00:37 -0000 (UTC), Radio Man
wrote:

snip for the lazy troll

Dont parks normally require dogs to be on leads?

Not always, depending on the park. Many bylaws state they must simply
be 'Under control' and the owners must clear up after them.

Irresponsible dog OWNERS
are a real problem.

Absolutely.

Fancy not taking the dog out if it is raining.

Me, no probs, the dog might (and can, if it chooses to) have a
different view on it.

Our rescue whippet was petrified of umbrellas so I'm guessing you
would force her out in the rain eh? Probaby hit with one by her PO (it
wasn't you was it, for her not wanting to go out in the rain)?

Cheers, T i m

that is a chunk of the problem...

On 25/09/2020 10:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/09/2020 09:06, Radio Man wrote:
I do worry when I see people with several dogs whether they have the
space
at home for them to run around etc. Keeping even a small dog in a pokey
flat is like putting it in prison yet, so called, animal lovers, keep
several dogs in pokey flats.

I have a large house, which use to house two dogs. Once the daily 'hunt'
had been undertaken, they ate their dinners, and went to sleep. When
they woke up one would stare out of an upstairs window at what was
happening outside, and the other would laze round doing not much. They
never 'ran around'.




Which one did you divorce ?.

On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 10:05:37 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 24/09/2020 14:27:21, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 10:56:35 +0100, williamwright
wrote:


I've always thought it very useful with dogs that are light enough to be
picked up to have a safe method of doing it.

snip

Given your recent reply regarding live stock recently:

"If I and many others were to be deprived of our steaks we would
have two thoughts: 1. How can I beat the system and get steak?, and 2.
I hate the *******s who caused this shortage of steak."

So I would have thought you wouldn't bother lifting the animal at all,
but just drag it by one leg manually, or if it was an adult animal you
were moving, just drag it with a tractor or forklift?

The difference between you and me, and quite possibly Bill, if I would
do my best to stop the practice of lifting an animal, or dragging it by
one leg manually whilst an animal is aware of it's surroundings.

Yes, you are right. You are a pussaaayy so pay someone to do the dirty
work for you and I don't, so you are right, we are very different.

Whereas you would wank over any video of such animal abuse and use it to
further your campaign to force on others your enforced veganism.

And you won't even watch them, that's how much a pussayy you are.
Fking only Youtube videos as well! Seriously kid, does mommy know you
are on her PC?

You don't give a **** about animals.

Other than not killing them, like you do you mean?

It's all about your jealousy to
anyone whose loved ones allow them to eat meat.

Aww, bless, like a psychopath like you knows anything about love or
any other human feeling. (well, other than how much pleasure you get
from killing innocent animals of course).

Cheers, T i m

On 24/09/2020 23:45, T i m wrote:
I've always thought it very useful with dogs that are light enough to be
picked up snip

Well it does rather depend on the size and breed of the dog.

Like I said

Bill

On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 22:30:21 +0100, williamwright
wrote:

On 24/09/2020 23:45, T i m wrote:
I've always thought it very useful with dogs that are light enough to be
picked up snip

Well it does rather depend on the size and breed of the dog.

Like I said

You do know I didn't write that don't you Bill?

Cheers, T i m

On 25/09/2020 22:20:48, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 10:05:37 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 24/09/2020 14:27:21, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 10:56:35 +0100, williamwright
wrote:


I've always thought it very useful with dogs that are light enough to be
picked up to have a safe method of doing it.

snip

Given your recent reply regarding live stock recently:

"If I and many others were to be deprived of our steaks we would
have two thoughts: 1. How can I beat the system and get steak?, and 2.
I hate the *******s who caused this shortage of steak."

So I would have thought you wouldn't bother lifting the animal at all,
but just drag it by one leg manually, or if it was an adult animal you
were moving, just drag it with a tractor or forklift?

The difference between you and me, and quite possibly Bill, if I would
do my best to stop the practice of lifting an animal, or dragging it by
one leg manually whilst an animal is aware of it's surroundings.

Yes, you are right. You are a pussaaayy so pay someone to do the dirty
work for you and I don't, so you are right, we are very different.

Quite, we are very different. You seem happy for such practices to
continue. I don't.

Whereas you would wank over any video of such animal abuse and use it to
further your campaign to force on others your enforced veganism.

And you won't even watch them, that's how much a pussayy you are.
Fking only Youtube videos as well! Seriously kid, does mommy know you
are on her PC?

You don't give a **** about animals.

Other than not killing them, like you do you mean?

As long as they are stunned or bolted so unaware of the process. Yes. It
is perfectly natural way to have a naturally balanced diet.

It's all about your jealousy to
anyone whose loved ones allow them to eat meat.

Aww, bless, like a psychopath like you knows anything about love or
any other human feeling. (well, other than how much pleasure you get
from killing innocent animals of course).

Is that an admission that you envy those who are allowed to eat meat?

On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 23:12:57 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

snip

Yes, you are right. You are a pussaaayy so pay someone to do the dirty
work for you and I don't, so you are right, we are very different.

Quite, we are very different.

Damn right, animal killer.

You seem happy for such practices to
continue.

What, by not wanting animals killed when you do, yeah, that sounds
right (not).

I don't.

That's *exactly* what you want ... and do!

snip

Other than not killing them, like you do you mean?

As long as they are stunned or bolted so unaware of the process.

And what about when separating mother from child, what about the ride
in the truck to the slaughterhouse, what about the smell of death into
the slaughterhouse, what about he noises from the other animals as
they are gassed or the stunning doesn't work.

You really think it's just like it shows you in your Ladybird Book of
the farm don't you?

Yes. It
is perfectly natural way to have a naturally balanced diet.

Along with the animal pain, suffering and death, pollution and waste
of resources. Agreed.

It's all about your jealousy to
anyone whose loved ones allow them to eat meat.

Aww, bless, like a psychopath like you knows anything about love or
any other human feeling. (well, other than how much pleasure you get
from killing innocent animals of course).

Is that an admission that you envy those who are allowed to eat meat?

To a psychopath, I guess it could be twisted to mean that. To a normal
person that wasn't in denial and suffering the side effects of their
cognitive dissonance, no.

But carry on making a fool of yourself troll, you are doing a great
job.

Cheers, T i m

On 25/09/2020 23:44:52, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 23:12:57 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

snip

Yes, you are right. You are a pussaaayy so pay someone to do the dirty
work for you and I don't, so you are right, we are very different.

Quite, we are very different.

Damn right, animal killer.

You seem happy for such practices to
continue.

What, by not wanting animals killed when you do, yeah, that sounds
right (not).

I don't.

That's *exactly* what you want ... and do!

snip

Other than not killing them, like you do you mean?

As long as they are stunned or bolted so unaware of the process.

And what about when separating mother from child, what about the ride
in the truck to the slaughterhouse, what about the smell of death into
the slaughterhouse, what about he noises from the other animals as
they are gassed or the stunning doesn't work.

You really think it's just like it shows you in your Ladybird Book of
the farm don't you?

Yes. It
is perfectly natural way to have a naturally balanced diet.

Along with the animal pain, suffering and death, pollution and waste
of resources. Agreed.

For the avoidance of doubt, the difference between you and me, and quite
possibly Bill, if I would do my best to stop the practice of lifting an
animal, or dragging it by one leg manually whilst an animal is aware of
it's surroundings.

So we are agreed you would do nothing to stop the practice of lifting an
animal, or dragging it by one leg manually whilst an animal is aware of
it's surroundings.

It's all about your jealousy to
anyone whose loved ones allow them to eat meat.

Aww, bless, like a psychopath like you knows anything about love or
any other human feeling. (well, other than how much pleasure you get
from killing innocent animals of course).

Is that an admission that you envy those who are allowed to eat meat?

To a psychopath, I guess it could be twisted to mean that. To a normal
person that wasn't in denial and suffering the side effects of their
cognitive dissonance, no.

To you, anyone who eats meat is a psychopath. Given we are the norm and
vegans are a minority it's not clear what you are saying.

Normal people eat meat. Fanatical vegans who want to force their way of
life onto others are by very definitions psychopaths.

On Sat, 26 Sep 2020 00:08:13 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 25/09/2020 23:44:52, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 23:12:57 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

snip

Yes, you are right. You are a pussaaayy so pay someone to do the dirty
work for you and I don't, so you are right, we are very different.

Quite, we are very different.

Damn right, animal killer.

You seem happy for such practices to
continue.

What, by not wanting animals killed when you do, yeah, that sounds
right (not).

I don't.

That's *exactly* what you want ... and do!

snip

Other than not killing them, like you do you mean?

As long as they are stunned or bolted so unaware of the process.

And what about when separating mother from child, what about the ride
in the truck to the slaughterhouse, what about the smell of death into
the slaughterhouse, what about he noises from the other animals as
they are gassed or the stunning doesn't work.

You really think it's just like it shows you in your Ladybird Book of
the farm don't you?

Yes. It
is perfectly natural way to have a naturally balanced diet.

Along with the animal pain, suffering and death, pollution and waste
of resources. Agreed.

For the avoidance of doubt, the difference between you and me, and quite
possibly Bill, if I would do my best to stop the practice of lifting an
animal, or dragging it by one leg manually whilst an animal is aware of
it's surroundings.

WTF do you keep coming up with all this bull**** of trying to compare
what you or any meat eater supports with something someone who doesn't
eat meat condones?

No animals are pulled along by their legs by me or anything else, just
for you and the other meat eaters.

But hey, you have admitted you don't actually GAF about animals
elsewhere so anything you come out with here is now mute.

So we are agreed you would do nothing to stop the practice of lifting an
animal, or dragging it by one leg manually whilst an animal is aware of
it's surroundings.

No, we don't agree, because you actually support that and more, and I
don't support that or any of it.

It's all about your jealousy to
anyone whose loved ones allow them to eat meat.

Aww, bless, like a psychopath like you knows anything about love or
any other human feeling. (well, other than how much pleasure you get
from killing innocent animals of course).

Is that an admission that you envy those who are allowed to eat meat?

To a psychopath, I guess it could be twisted to mean that. To a normal
person that wasn't in denial and suffering the side effects of their
cognitive dissonance, no.

To you, anyone who eats meat is a psychopath.

No. Anyone who eats meat and tries to suggest it doesn't come at a
massive cost (death) and suffering to the animals is a psychopath. So
mostly that's you.

Given we are the norm and
vegans are a minority it's not clear what you are saying.

I don't need to say anything now you have finally admitted the truth.

You can fcuk off and find someone / thing else to troll.

Normal people eat meat.

Nope.

Fanatical vegans who want to force their way of
life onto others are by very definitions psychopaths.

Only a psychopath could suggest that someone who wants to *STOP* the
abuse of a voiceless and innocent creature is in some way bad? Plus
many people care for the environment, world resources and what mess we
will leave to our children, much of which is made worse by all the
live stock. You only GAF about YOU.

Have a look at yourself FFS, you really shouldn't like what you see
and if you do, that confirms you are a psychopath / troll.

Cheers, T i m

On 25/09/2020 22:37, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 22:30:21 +0100, williamwright
wrote:

On 24/09/2020 23:45, T i m wrote:
I've always thought it very useful with dogs that are light enough to be
picked up snip

Well it does rather depend on the size and breed of the dog.

Like I said

You do know I didn't write that don't you Bill?

Cheers, T i m

I realised as I sent.

Bill

On Sat, 26 Sep 2020 13:51:51 +0100, williamwright
wrote:

snip

I realised as I sent.

Np.

Given you do obviously care about animals, or dogs at least, can you
please explain (genuine question) how you differentiate between say
caring, loving and protecting a dog, and 'happily' (assuming it
doesn't weigh on your conscious), killing a cow for your lump of
steak?

I ask because that sounds like a 'logical inconsistency, caring for
one species of animal but not for another, to the point where you
would actually kill and eat it?

By comparison, those that are known to eat *anything* (I once heard
something said along the lines of one cultural group that 'If it has 4
legs and isn't a table, swims but isn't submarine and fly's but isn't
an aeroplane ... they'll eat it', is at least, 'logically consistent?

For me (suffering the same 'logical inconsistency for most of my life)
it was a matter of doing what I believe many do and 'prefer not to
think about it' (the fact that an animal has to die for us to eat
them) or, as others have suggested here, that the whole process is
'ok', 'RSPCA / Red Tractor' or whatever assured and that conjured up
animals frolicking in natural circumstances but eventually having one
bad day. The truth for the vast majority of live stock is that it's
far form that 'natural' and *never* humane (you can't take an animals
life against it's will, 'humanely' etc) so after cutting out dairy for
heath reasons a few years ago and never being a big meat eater, I (we)
took the opportunity of trying cutting out meat and eggs completely in
Veganuary with our daughter and have stayed on it ever since.

In so doing, we have looked closer into all the goings on behind the
scenes re live stock and given the rapidly growing number of
non-animal, plant-based alternatives now out there, the whole global
warming thing (with WAY more mammals on the planet than their ever
were, specifically the *trillions* of live stock we raise to kill and
eat, many producing loads of methane (20%, more than all
transportation) and huge quantities of waste) and the morality of
taking an animals life when it's unnecessary 'these days', it was
really a big weight off our shoulders, not being part of the problem
any more.

This is especially so when you compare the characteristics of the
animals we do seem perfectly happy to eat over here, namely pigs, cows
and sheep when it's known that pigs for example are as or are more
intelligent than a dog, so it can't be us rating them on that?

We know part of the reason those particular animals were chosen to be
domesticated for us to eat, was the fact that they are generally
docile but that make it worse that we would use that very trait
against them, especially when it comes to slaughter time. Imagine
trying to take a new-born gorilla [1] baby away from it's mother for
example?

I 'get' if you think we (humans) are in some way 'above' all the other
animals we share this rock with ... and that then gives us the right
to take their lives, just because we like how they taste but that
doesn't seem logical when you also have dogs as companion animals?

https://ibb.co/N2zFBJh

Cheers, T i m

[1] folivore (FAH-lih-vor)

Noun

herbivore that eats mainly leaves.

On 25/09/2020 09:06, Radio Man wrote:
ss wrote:
On 24/09/2020 11:11, Andrew wrote:
The Jack Russell cross whatever that I see regularly, can jump up to
waist height when is delighted to see me, despite having diddly legs.

Jack Russells dont realise they are small dogs :-)
They can jump to a height of 5 feet and will dig under fences to escape.
They are rocket propelled nut jobs.



Probably one of the funniest dogs to watch play with a ball. Give one a
large football, they love it.

they have a chunk of a time...

On 24/09/2020 10:56, williamwright wrote:

what is this to do with d-i-y