I'm removing rotten wood, pine, plaster, foam, car body filler etc from an old bay window.

I'm thinking to replace just the rotten bits, not the whole thing,
copying the shape of the old bits.

I have some old oak beams which could be 100 or 200 or 300 years old,
how hard would this be to cut?

Maybe a new Freud blade for my table saw?

Or buy new oak which would be softer,
but how much would it warp as it drys out?

advice please

Photo and video on my facebook at:
https://www.facebook.com/dicegeorge/...58317257739882

George

On 24/05/2020 16:51, George Miles wrote:
I'm removing rotten wood, pine, plaster, foam, car body filler etc from an old bay window.

I'm thinking to replace just the rotten bits, not the whole thing,
copying the shape of the old bits.

I have some old oak beams which could be 100 or 200 or 300 years old,
how hard would this be to cut?

bloody hard. But you can do it.
watch out for nails...

Maybe a new Freud blade for my table saw?

Or buy new oak which would be softer,
but how much would it warp as it drys out?

don't use green oak.
advice please

Photo and video on my facebook at:
https://www.facebook.com/dicegeorge/...58317257739882

George



--
"What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
"I don't."
"Don't what?"
"Think about Gay Marriage."

On 24/05/2020 16:51, George Miles wrote:
I'm removing rotten wood, pine, plaster, foam, car body filler etc from an old bay window.

I'm thinking to replace just the rotten bits, not the whole thing,
copying the shape of the old bits.

I have some old oak beams which could be 100 or 200 or 300 years old,
how hard would this be to cut?

Maybe a new Freud blade for my table saw?

Or buy new oak which would be softer,
but how much would it warp as it drys out?

advice please

Photo and video on my facebook at:
https://www.facebook.com/dicegeorge/...58317257739882

George

you are lucky that is wet rot ...

On 24/05/2020 16:51, George Miles wrote:
I'm removing rotten wood, pine, plaster, foam, car body filler etc from an old bay window.

I'm thinking to replace just the rotten bits, not the whole thing,
copying the shape of the old bits.

I have some old oak beams which could be 100 or 200 or 300 years old,

how hard would this be to cut?

Its harder to work by hand than some other hardwoods, but it machines
nicely.

Maybe a new Freud blade for my table saw?

Try what you have first - you may be surprised.

Or buy new oak which would be softer,

Don't count on it (unless its green, and then not suitable for window
frames). Oak is quite hard and dense.

but how much would it warp as it drys out?

It will likely be kiln dried to a moisture content in the low teens. If
anything it would be likely to get wetter rather than drier in this
application.

advice please

Photo and video on my facebook at:
https://www.facebook.com/dicegeorge/...58317257739882

Yup, not much left to patch - so letting in a whole new bit looks
sensible. (and scarf in some new bottom ends to the mullions as well buy
the looks of it).

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Monday, May 25, 2020 at 1:16:14 AM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/05/2020 16:51, George Miles wrote:
I'm removing rotten wood, pine, plaster, foam, car body filler etc from an old bay window.

I'm thinking to replace just the rotten bits, not the whole thing,
copying the shape of the old bits.

I have some old oak beams which could be 100 or 200 or 300 years old,

how hard would this be to cut?

Its harder to work by hand than some other hardwoods, but it machines
nicely.

Maybe a new Freud blade for my table saw?

Try what you have first - you may be surprised.

Or buy new oak which would be softer,

Don't count on it (unless its green, and then not suitable for window
frames). Oak is quite hard and dense.

but how much would it warp as it drys out?

It will likely be kiln dried to a moisture content in the low teens. If
anything it would be likely to get wetter rather than drier in this
application.

advice please

Photo and video on my facebook at:
https://www.facebook.com/dicegeorge/...58317257739882

Yup, not much left to patch - so letting in a whole new bit looks
sensible. (and scarf in some new bottom ends to the mullions as well buy
the looks of it).

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

I just replaced the seat and back of an old cast iron garden bench with some reclaimed solid oak wood. Whoops. The cast iron is reacting with the tannin in the oak and giving black stain, but it was such a p.i.t.a. job it can bloody stay that way
Also there is a difference between American Oak and European Oak. The latter is more weather resistant ISTR

I just replaced the seat and back of an old cast iron garden bench with some reclaimed solid oak wood. Whoops. The cast iron is reacting with the tannin in the oak and giving black stain, but it was such a p.i.t.a. job it can bloody stay that way
Also there is a difference between American Oak and European Oak. The latter is more weather resistant ISTR

Make sure you use brass fixings, things like steel screws will simply rust away. If using screws always drill correct pilot and clearance holes and drive a steel screw in first before replacing with a brass one. Use a traditional wood screw to form the threads for the brass screw rather than the more modern twin threads and self drilling screws.

Richard

On 25/05/2020 10:32, Tricky Dicky wrote:
I just replaced the seat and back of an old cast iron garden bench with some reclaimed solid oak wood. Whoops. The cast iron is reacting with the tannin in the oak and giving black stain, but it was such a p.i.t.a. job it can bloody stay that way
Also there is a difference between American Oak and European Oak. The latter is more weather resistant ISTR

Make sure you use brass fixings, things like steel screws will simply rust away. If using screws always drill correct pilot and clearance holes and drive a steel screw in first before replacing with a brass one. Use a traditional wood screw to form the threads for the brass screw rather than the more modern twin threads and self drilling screws.

Richard

.... or stainless steel, but the same advice applies about running a
regular screw through beforehand - the bu&&ers shear much more easily
than the usual non s/s screws. Once sheared you need to core out the
area around the remains, plug the hole, and drill a slightly-larger
clearance and pilot before using the new screw - a PITA.

Slightly off thread: my plug cutters only work in a pillar drill, are
there any that will work in a hand drill?

On 24/05/2020 16:51, George Miles wrote:
I'm removing rotten wood, pine, plaster, foam, car body filler etc from an old bay window.

I'm thinking to replace just the rotten bits, not the whole thing,
copying the shape of the old bits.

I have some old oak beams which could be 100 or 200 or 300 years old,
how hard would this be to cut?

Maybe a new Freud blade for my table saw?

Or buy new oak which would be softer,
but how much would it warp as it drys out?

advice please

Photo and video on my facebook at:
https://www.facebook.com/dicegeorge/...58317257739882

George

Try what's in the shed, it should be OK with sharp tools but, if it's
too cracked, wormed, nailed or hard work then buy some more.
I've recently replaced some oak window sills and needed to buy a final
1.8m length of 80x80 sawn oak to machine down to the right profile.
Quotes from two saw mills were in the region of £54 and £44 for
kiln-dried, but eventually I found a local guy and paid £15 for some
well-seasoned air-dried ... so ask around.

On 25/05/2020 09:39, fred wrote:

I just replaced the seat and back of an old cast iron garden bench
with some reclaimed solid oak wood. Whoops. The cast iron is
reacting with the tannin in the oak and giving black stain, but it

Yup, had the problem in the past. Outside the blackness will fade a bit
with time.

was such a p.i.t.a. job it can bloody stay that way Also there is a
difference between American Oak and European Oak. The latter is more
weather resistant ISTR

I have often heard similar, although quite often they are both rated as
"Durable" - so there may not be that much practical difference in many
cases. English oak (rather than just "European") tends to perform very
well in wet service applications (boats in particular) or when in
contact with the ground.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 25/05/2020 10:55, wrote:
On 25/05/2020 10:32, Tricky Dicky wrote:
I just replaced the seat and back of an old cast iron garden bench
with some reclaimedÂ* solid oak wood. Whoops. The cast iron is
reacting with the tannin in the oak and giving black stain, but it
was such a p.i.t.a. job it can bloody stay that way
Also there is a difference between American Oak and European Oak. The
latter is more weather resistant ISTR

Make sure you use brass fixings, things like steel screws will simply
rust away. If using screws always drill correct pilot and clearance
holes and drive a steel screw in first before replacing with a brass
one. Use a traditional wood screw to form the threads for the brass
screw rather than the more modern twin threads and self drilling screws.

Richard

.... or stainless steel, but the same advice applies about running a
regular screw through beforehand - the bu&&ers shear much more easily
than the usual non s/s screws. Once sheared you need to core out the
area around the remains, plug the hole, and drill a slightly-larger
clearance and pilot before using the new screw - a PITA.

Slightly off thread: my plug cutters only work in a pillar drill, are
there any that will work in a hand drill?

The main problem is keeping them on centre...

One workaround is to use the plug cutter to make a hole (or a row of
holes) through some 1/2" ply in the pillar drill. Then when wanting to
use the plug cutter free hand, clamp the ply to the stock you want to
make plugs from, and use it to guide the plug cutter.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Monday, 25 May 2020 12:20:55 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/05/2020 10:55, wrote:
On 25/05/2020 10:32, Tricky Dicky wrote:
I just replaced the seat and back of an old cast iron garden bench
with some reclaimedÂ* solid oak wood. Whoops. The cast iron is
reacting with the tannin in the oak and giving black stain, but it
was such a p.i.t.a. job it can bloody stay that way
Also there is a difference between American Oak and European Oak. The
latter is more weather resistant ISTR

Make sure you use brass fixings, things like steel screws will simply
rust away. If using screws always drill correct pilot and clearance
holes and drive a steel screw in first before replacing with a brass
one. Use a traditional wood screw to form the threads for the brass
screw rather than the more modern twin threads and self drilling screws.

Richard

.... or stainless steel, but the same advice applies about running a
regular screw through beforehand - the bu&&ers shear much more easily
than the usual non s/s screws. Once sheared you need to core out the
area around the remains, plug the hole, and drill a slightly-larger
clearance and pilot before using the new screw - a PITA.

Slightly off thread: my plug cutters only work in a pillar drill, are
there any that will work in a hand drill?

The main problem is keeping them on centre...

One workaround is to use the plug cutter to make a hole (or a row of
holes) through some 1/2" ply in the pillar drill. Then when wanting to
use the plug cutter free hand, clamp the ply to the stock you want to
make plugs from, and use it to guide the plug cutter.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

This is what I use for cutting plugs. It's relatively cheap, works as my old support for vertical drilling doesn't take my modern drill.

Jonathan

On 25/05/2020 12:20, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/05/2020 10:55, wrote:
On 25/05/2020 10:32, Tricky Dicky wrote:
I just replaced the seat and back of an old cast iron garden bench
with some reclaimedÂ* solid oak wood. Whoops. The cast iron is
reacting with the tannin in the oak and giving black stain, but it
was such a p.i.t.a. job it can bloody stay that way
Also there is a difference between American Oak and European Oak.
The latter is more weather resistant ISTR

Make sure you use brass fixings, things like steel screws will simply
rust away. If using screws always drill correct pilot and clearance
holes and drive a steel screw in first before replacing with a brass
one. Use a traditional wood screw to form the threads for the brass
screw rather than the more modern twin threads and self drilling screws.

Richard

.... or stainless steel, but the same advice applies about running a
regular screw through beforehand - the bu&&ers shear much more easily
than the usual non s/s screws. Once sheared you need to core out the
area around the remains, plug the hole, and drill a slightly-larger
clearance and pilot before using the new screw - a PITA.

Slightly off thread: my plug cutters only work in a pillar drill, are
there any that will work in a hand drill?

The main problem is keeping them on centre...

One workaround is to use the plug cutter to make a hole (or a row of
holes) through some 1/2" ply in the pillar drill. Then when wanting to
use the plug cutter free hand, clamp the ply to the stock you want to
make plugs from, and use it to guide the plug cutter.


Thanks, that hadn't occurred to me.
FYI, from a quick look around it seems that there are some cutters out
there with a centre pin, but they seem to be mostly a US thing

On Monday, 25 May 2020 15:26:50 UTC+1, wrote:
On 25/05/2020 12:20, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/05/2020 10:55, wrote:
On 25/05/2020 10:32, Tricky Dicky wrote:

Slightly off thread: my plug cutters only work in a pillar drill, are
there any that will work in a hand drill?

no, think about how they work

The main problem is keeping them on centre...

One workaround is to use the plug cutter to make a hole (or a row of
holes) through some 1/2" ply in the pillar drill. Then when wanting to
use the plug cutter free hand, clamp the ply to the stock you want to
make plugs from, and use it to guide the plug cutter.


Thanks, that hadn't occurred to me.
FYI, from a quick look around it seems that there are some cutters out
there with a centre pin, but they seem to be mostly a US thing

how would they be functional with a centre pin?


NT

On 25/05/2020 16:07, wrote:
On Monday, 25 May 2020 15:26:50 UTC+1, wrote:
On 25/05/2020 12:20, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/05/2020 10:55, wrote:
On 25/05/2020 10:32, Tricky Dicky wrote:

Slightly off thread: my plug cutters only work in a pillar drill, are
there any that will work in a hand drill?

no, think about how they work

The main problem is keeping them on centre...

One workaround is to use the plug cutter to make a hole (or a row of
holes) through some 1/2" ply in the pillar drill. Then when wanting to
use the plug cutter free hand, clamp the ply to the stock you want to
make plugs from, and use it to guide the plug cutter.


Thanks, that hadn't occurred to me.
FYI, from a quick look around it seems that there are some cutters out
there with a centre pin, but they seem to be mostly a US thing

how would they be functional with a centre pin?

The pin retracts once the cut is started:

https://www.montanabrandtools.com/pr...c-plug-cutters




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 25/05/2020 15:26, wrote:
On 25/05/2020 12:20, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/05/2020 10:55, wrote:
On 25/05/2020 10:32, Tricky Dicky wrote:
I just replaced the seat and back of an old cast iron garden bench
with some reclaimedÂ* solid oak wood. Whoops. The cast iron is
reacting with the tannin in the oak and giving black stain, but it
was such a p.i.t.a. job it can bloody stay that way
Also there is a difference between American Oak and European Oak.
The latter is more weather resistant ISTR

Make sure you use brass fixings, things like steel screws will
simply rust away. If using screws always drill correct pilot and
clearance holes and drive a steel screw in first before replacing
with a brass one. Use a traditional wood screw to form the threads
for the brass screw rather than the more modern twin threads and
self drilling screws.

Richard

.... or stainless steel, but the same advice applies about running a
regular screw through beforehand - the bu&&ers shear much more easily
than the usual non s/s screws. Once sheared you need to core out the
area around the remains, plug the hole, and drill a slightly-larger
clearance and pilot before using the new screw - a PITA.

Slightly off thread: my plug cutters only work in a pillar drill, are
there any that will work in a hand drill?

The main problem is keeping them on centre...

One workaround is to use the plug cutter to make a hole (or a row of
holes) through some 1/2" ply in the pillar drill. Then when wanting to
use the plug cutter free hand, clamp the ply to the stock you want to
make plugs from, and use it to guide the plug cutter.


Thanks, that hadn't occurred to me.
FYI, from a quick look around it seems that there are some cutters out
there with a centre pin, but they seem to be mostly a US thing

Should have also said, another way is if you have a forstner bit of the
same diameter - drill a shallow hole with that first, then follow with
the plug cutter.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 25/05/2020 21:10, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/05/2020 15:26, wrote:
On 25/05/2020 12:20, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/05/2020 10:55, wrote:
On 25/05/2020 10:32, Tricky Dicky wrote:
I just replaced the seat and back of an old cast iron garden bench
with some reclaimedÂ* solid oak wood. Whoops. The cast iron is
reacting with the tannin in the oak and giving black stain, but
it was such a p.i.t.a. job it can bloody stay that way
Also there is a difference between American Oak and European Oak.
The latter is more weather resistant ISTR

Make sure you use brass fixings, things like steel screws will
simply rust away. If using screws always drill correct pilot and
clearance holes and drive a steel screw in first before replacing
with a brass one. Use a traditional wood screw to form the threads
for the brass screw rather than the more modern twin threads and
self drilling screws.

Richard

.... or stainless steel, but the same advice applies about running a
regular screw through beforehand - the bu&&ers shear much more
easily than the usual non s/s screws. Once sheared you need to core
out the area around the remains, plug the hole, and drill a
slightly-larger clearance and pilot before using the new screw - a
PITA.

Slightly off thread: my plug cutters only work in a pillar drill,
are there any that will work in a hand drill?

The main problem is keeping them on centre...

One workaround is to use the plug cutter to make a hole (or a row of
holes) through some 1/2" ply in the pillar drill. Then when wanting
to use the plug cutter free hand, clamp the ply to the stock you want
to make plugs from, and use it to guide the plug cutter.


Thanks, that hadn't occurred to me.
FYI, from a quick look around it seems that there are some cutters out
there with a centre pin, but they seem to be mostly a US thing

Should have also said, another way is if you have a forstner bit of the
same diameter - drill a shallow hole with that first, then follow with
the plug cutter.

Somehow I have a box of metric forstner bits and a box of imperial plug
cutters - c'est la vie :-(

On Monday, May 25, 2020 at 10:32:51 AM UTC+1, Tricky Dicky wrote:
I just replaced the seat and back of an old cast iron garden bench with some reclaimed solid oak wood. Whoops. The cast iron is reacting with the tannin in the oak and giving black stain, but it was such a p.i.t.a. job it can bloody stay that way
Also there is a difference between American Oak and European Oak. The latter is more weather resistant ISTR

Make sure you use brass fixings, things like steel screws will simply rust away. If using screws always drill correct pilot and clearance holes and drive a steel screw in first before replacing with a brass one. Use a traditional wood screw to form the threads for the brass screw rather than the more modern twin threads and self drilling screws.

Richard

The slats were through bolted with stainless steel bolts

On Monday, 25 May 2020 20:45:18 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/05/2020 16:07, tabbypurr wrote:
On Monday, 25 May 2020 15:26:50 UTC+1, wrote:
On 25/05/2020 12:20, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/05/2020 10:55, wrote:
On 25/05/2020 10:32, Tricky Dicky wrote:

Slightly off thread: my plug cutters only work in a pillar drill, are
there any that will work in a hand drill?

no, think about how they work

The main problem is keeping them on centre...

One workaround is to use the plug cutter to make a hole (or a row of
holes) through some 1/2" ply in the pillar drill. Then when wanting to
use the plug cutter free hand, clamp the ply to the stock you want to
make plugs from, and use it to guide the plug cutter.


Thanks, that hadn't occurred to me.
FYI, from a quick look around it seems that there are some cutters out
there with a centre pin, but they seem to be mostly a US thing

how would they be functional with a centre pin?

The pin retracts once the cut is started:

https://www.montanabrandtools.com/pr...c-plug-cutters

30 bucks, I got a pillar drill for less than that.


NT