On 15/01/2020 10:20, Tim Lamb wrote:
OK so we listened to the news, read the discussion on 10 upgrade but how
to explain this mornings 250mB update?

More seriously, is W7 32 bit going to sensibly change to W10?
windows 10 is crap....

On 15/01/2020 18:16, Andy Burns wrote:
JoeJoe wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

I've updated a couple of dozen machines 7-10 in the last year, most
of them got a HD-SSD upgrade at the same time, so the original disk
was there as a backup in case of issues, but was never needed. they
were all allowed to upgrade for free, despite the official free offer
being long gone.

How do you do that?Â* I also want to upgrade Win7-10 as a clean
install on a new SSD.

Didn't do them as clean installs, cloned HD-SSD (reducing partition
size if required) removed HD and stuck on shelf, then perform a win10
upgrade install in-place over win7, using ISO or USB stick generated by
the Microsoft media creation tool.Â* Later put the HD back in and
reformat as D: drive.

How does the "allowed to upgrade for free" work?

It's just down to Microsoft not really checking, so you get away with
it, these were all machines with "good" win7 pro licences to start with.

Thanks, worth a shot as all my machines have legit Win 7 licences.

Is there a downside to an upgrade, rather than a clean install?

On 15/01/2020 13:42, Tim Lamb wrote:
Apart from Turnpike, most of my stuff is either open source or related
to the printer.

Worth giving linux mint a spin then

You can clone your current machines W7 and run it as a virtual machine
if you want to keep an archive, just don't go online with it (although I
do with my old XP as I keep an old email client which I use to backup my
gmail account)

On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 20:28:14 +0000, AJH wrote:

On 15/01/2020 13:42, Tim Lamb wrote:
Apart from Turnpike, most of my stuff is either open source or related
to the printer.

Worth giving linux mint a spin then

You can clone your current machines W7 and run it as a virtual machine
if you want to keep an archive, just don't go online with it (although I
do with my old XP as I keep an old email client which I use to backup my
gmail account)

I have just this moment shut down my Windows 7 desktop for the last time.

Windows 10 installation begins once the new disks are installed in 10
minutes' time.




--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 15/01/2020 20:35, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 20:28:14 +0000, AJH wrote:

On 15/01/2020 13:42, Tim Lamb wrote:
Apart from Turnpike, most of my stuff is either open source or related
to the printer.

Worth giving linux mint a spin then

You can clone your current machines W7 and run it as a virtual machine
if you want to keep an archive, just don't go online with it (although I
do with my old XP as I keep an old email client which I use to backup my
gmail account)

I have just this moment shut down my Windows 7 desktop for the last time.

Windows 10 installation begins once the new disks are installed in 10
minutes' time.




You'll probably notice quite an improvement in disk and graphics
performance over W7 if you stay with the same kind of disk technology

I was going to buy a new PC rather than update around this time but I
was forced to update to W10 early last summer as there was some MS
software I had to use that didn't support Win7. So a few bob spent on a
1TB SSD and 16GB of RAM and this 7 year old i7 flies again and no need
for a new PC now.

In message , AJH
writes
On 15/01/2020 13:42, Tim Lamb wrote:
Apart from Turnpike, most of my stuff is either open source or
related to the printer.

Worth giving linux mint a spin then

You can clone your current machines W7 and run it as a virtual
machine if you want to keep an archive, just don't go online with it
(although I do with my old XP as I keep an old email client which I use
to backup my gmail account)

I'm a user rather than a geek!
My initial thinking is to stick with W7 and pay for some better
protection.

--
Tim Lamb

Andy Burns wrote:
Brian Gaff wrote:

most users will carry on no
doubt until third party software support stops as with xp

browsers have stopped supporting winxp, I think chrome has said they'll
only support win7 until 2021, it won't be long after that that old web
browsers start to lose compatibility with more security conscious web
servers ... for most users, why cling to the past?


In my case because my pc €œjust works€� and does what I want (which isnt
much). Also, last time I updated it to W10 it turned my PC into a
non-working ornament. Once bitten...

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 15/01/2020 21:21, Tim Lamb wrote:
I'm a user rather than a geek!
My initial thinking is to stick with W7 and pay for some better protection.

Me too but I have used linux probably since we last met a couple of
decades ago.

The modern renditions are just like windows, loading new software can
be a pain but once you've done one...

On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 21:02:00 +0000, mm0fmf wrote:

On 15/01/2020 20:35, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 20:28:14 +0000, AJH wrote:

On 15/01/2020 13:42, Tim Lamb wrote:
Apart from Turnpike, most of my stuff is either open source or
related to the printer.

Worth giving linux mint a spin then

You can clone your current machines W7 and run it as a virtual
machine if you want to keep an archive, just don't go online with it
(although I
do with my old XP as I keep an old email client which I use to backup
my gmail account)

I have just this moment shut down my Windows 7 desktop for the last
time.

Windows 10 installation begins once the new disks are installed in 10
minutes' time.




You'll probably notice quite an improvement in disk and graphics
performance over W7 if you stay with the same kind of disk technology

I don't use it often enough to notice. It's there because I work with
various other people, mainly volunteering on various things (food bank,
guest lectures, Barefoot Computing).

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 15/01/2020 18:19, Andy Burns wrote:
JoeJoe wrote:

How does the "allowed to upgrade for free" work?

According to this
https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/soft...load/windows10 "a [win
10] license is required".

theoretically correct, in practice never known a machine that starts
with a valid Win7 licence to need to buy a win10 licence, no guarantee
of course.

Wasn't there a get around anyway after the free update period ended -
stating that you needed to use assistive technologies?

SteveW

On 15/01/2020 19:30, JoeJoe wrote:
On 15/01/2020 18:16, Andy Burns wrote:
JoeJoe wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

I've updated a couple of dozen machines 7-10 in the last year, most
of them got a HD-SSD upgrade at the same time, so the original disk
was there as a backup in case of issues, but was never needed. they
were all allowed to upgrade for free, despite the official free
offer being long gone.

How do you do that?Â* I also want to upgrade Win7-10 as a clean
install on a new SSD.

Didn't do them as clean installs, cloned HD-SSD (reducing partition
size if required) removed HD and stuck on shelf, then perform a win10
upgrade install in-place over win7, using ISO or USB stick generated
by the Microsoft media creation tool.Â* Later put the HD back in and
reformat as D: drive.

How does the "allowed to upgrade for free" work?

It's just down to Microsoft not really checking, so you get away with
it, these were all machines with "good" win7 pro licences to start with.

Thanks, worth a shot as all my machines have legit Win 7 licences.

Is there a downside to an upgrade, rather than a clean install?

Once it has upgraded, it should licence itself (assuming that that still
works). From then on, you can wipe it and install from scratch and as it
has already recorded the machine as licenced on the MS servers, it'll
re-activate automatically.

SteveW

On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 16:19:12 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 15/01/2020 14:37, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 14:31:42 +0000, T i m wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 14:01:19 +0000, Andrew
wrote:

snip

I just clicked on the 'DownLoad Windows 10 Now' on the Microsoft site
and chose 'Update this PC now' and left it to do its business for a
couple of hours.

Recently?

I used that page and downloaded ISO images last week.

I did it a couple of hours ago...

Still not done it myself (only the original in-situ upgrade and the
manual / fresh one) hence why I was checking the way I believe you
described a while back was still working.

That said, whilst we have several W7 installs here, I can't think of
one I'd want to try / do it on (because the users are happy as they
are and I don't want *any* aggravation because of something that might
not work or is now done even slightly differently. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

On 15/01/2020 11:51, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote:

Yes my only issue with windows 10 is that they have a forced policy of
making some software like Outlook Express not work and trashing it, If they

Outlook express has not worked since win 7 (at least not without
manually installing the missing DLLs it requires)

had offered a paid for copy of Outlook with data and account transfer, I'd

They do have a paid for version of outlook... (in fact all versions of
outlook are paid for). Outlook 2007 or higher works with all versions of
windows from the last decade or more.

go with it as at every new version of windows 10 it trashes it again even
though the damn thing works with just a few tweaks far better than the
crappy windows email client does, which has no filters and no newsgroup
support and keeps on crashing. Microsoft could very easily have modified
Outlook express with extra security and satisfied Google and left things
alone I'd have thought for a lot less cost than designing a rubbish
replacement, and don't even get me started on what they have done to Skype.
Brian



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 15/01/2020 18:13, JoeJoe wrote:
On 15/01/2020 18:08, JoeJoe wrote:
On 15/01/2020 11:04, Andy Burns wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:

OK so we listened to the news, read the discussion on 10 upgrade but
how to explain this mornings 250mB update?

The only update I see for win7 this year is a dotnet update.

Whether yesterday's crypto vulnerability is seen as serious enough
that they do fix it in win7, or whether they'll use it as a big lever
to tell joe public to move to win10 will be interesting ...

More seriously, is W7 32 bit going to sensibly change to W10?

I've updated a couple of dozen machines 7-10 in the last year, most
of them got a HD-SSD upgrade at the same time, so the original disk
was there as a backup in case of issues, but was never needed. they
were all allowed to upgrade for free, despite the official free offer
being long gone.

How do you do that? I also want to upgrade Win7-10 as a clean
install on a new SSD.

How does the "allowed to upgrade for free" work?

According to this
https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/soft...load/windows10 "a [win
10] license is required".

https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=799445

That will download Windows10Upgrade9252.exe

MD5 Hash: AE21A2989E1EF2EABA2F35EB21DF7EF5

That will update a valid Win7 installation to Win10. Once 10 is
installed and verified it will keeps a digital licence on its servers
for your specific hardware.

If you want a clean install just install from a Win10 ISO after that and
it should be automatically licensed.

John Rumm wrote:

They do have a paid for version of outlook

But it doesn't do usenet.

On 15/01/2020 21:58, Steve Walker wrote:
On 15/01/2020 19:30, JoeJoe wrote:
On 15/01/2020 18:16, Andy Burns wrote:
JoeJoe wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

I've updated a couple of dozen machines 7-10 in the last year,
most of them got a HD-SSD upgrade at the same time, so the
original disk was there as a backup in case of issues, but was
never needed. they were all allowed to upgrade for free, despite
the official free offer being long gone.

How do you do that?Â* I also want to upgrade Win7-10 as a clean
install on a new SSD.

Didn't do them as clean installs, cloned HD-SSD (reducing partition
size if required) removed HD and stuck on shelf, then perform a win10
upgrade install in-place over win7, using ISO or USB stick generated
by the Microsoft media creation tool.Â* Later put the HD back in and
reformat as D: drive.

How does the "allowed to upgrade for free" work?

It's just down to Microsoft not really checking, so you get away with
it, these were all machines with "good" win7 pro licences to start with.

Thanks, worth a shot as all my machines have legit Win 7 licences.

Is there a downside to an upgrade, rather than a clean install?

Once it has upgraded, it should licence itself (assuming that that still
works). From then on, you can wipe it and install from scratch and as it
has already recorded the machine as licenced on the MS servers, it'll
re-activate automatically.

I think you can get away with a clean install in the first place. Just
don't bother entering a win 10 key during installation, but then go back
to the activation page after, and select the option to enter a new
license and enter the Win 7 / 8 key then. (last time I tried it it
worked ok in a "blank" virtual machine)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 14:37:16 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
wrote:

snip

I have a Win7 VM. Haven't used it for over a year.

Why do you have it in the first place though?

It's a hangover from when I used to test stuff for work

And that's my point, there is still quite a lot of 'Windows Only'
stuff out there and so many people will need to have access to Windows
for something. On the flip side very few people need Linux to do
something *they* can't under Windows (most will have never heard of
Linux of course).


snip

The shame is that the Linux fraternity couldn't get together and unify
even one distro / spin that the software developers could hang their
hats on then it might be doing better than ~5% of the desktop market
after all these years.

The "killer app" for Linux would be an equivalent for Outlook.

Whist I've always been happy with Thunderbird (or Netscape Communicator
before that (was it?)), I agree re the requirement for Outlook by many.



So what happens. Does Thunderbird get maintained and made to work like
Outlook. No. It's dumped. Meaning Linux has no reliable integrated email/
calendar/MS Exchange program.

;-(

That would allow 70% of business users of Windows to switch with nary a
whisper.

That and MS Office.

The LibreOffice stuff is serviceable and in the right arena.

Sure. I installed it on 6 office machines for a mate ... who then went
out and bought 6 full copies of MS Office and used that instead
because people were sending him stuff and he wanted to minimise any
compatibility issues (and the chances are any business will be running
a fair recent version).

But the
problem is Outlook is installed before any of that. It's the very first
building block in a standard office build PC.

Quite.

It's the alpha and omega of business use.

The total swerve given by the Linux community to such a project tells me
all I need to know about where it's headed.

(IF you are talking Linux) ... On the same old 'minority interest' 5%
path it's been on for years.

And that's a big shame. I say that who has the choice of Windows and
Linux (typically Mint) dual-boot across and range of machines and it's
always what it can't do, over what it can / does do (and often pretty
well) that is the problem for many.

I really haven't needed Windows since I started with Mint myself

I would because I have yet to find anything that works as well as
Forte Agent (Pan is close but no cigar and is very slow on a couple of
PC's for some reason) and Irfanview has no Linux equal that I have
found so far. I don't use iTunes myself but I do look after several
Apple products for people and so do need access to it and then we have
all the OBD tools and games ... one person used some Karaoke software
that was Windows only (and the list really goes on ...).

Like I said, if you are a coder and / or just (mainly) use your PC as
a web terminal / WP then Linux will probably be sufficient.

My Multi-Boot pen drive has several Lini (32/64 bit, MATE / Cinnamon
etc) and W10 (32/64).

I can't think how many Linux boot DVD's I've given away and the
frustration I have when someone calls me with a Windows issue that I
could help them with remotely (over the phone) if they used Linux the
Linux DVD but hear they have thrown it away because they didn't want /
like it?

I finally got around to a boot image which has SSH enabled by default (I
still can't quite work out why there isn't one as standard). It's a
godsend for plug-boot-fix. Yes, you need the command line (much like
Microsoft have just invented) but that shouldn't scare a geek.

;-)

I upgraded the little PC I keep round Mums tonight to Mint 19.3 (I
think it was). The tense moment was accepting the 'Recommended'
graphics driver (as many times that has left me at some terminal
prompt and I don't have the skills, time or interest to try to fix it
so that often requires a complete re-install and a reminder not to
touch the video drivers!

Daughter and I watched 3 episodes of 'Veganville' via iPlayer (Web) on
Linux tonight and it worked fine (on low res, it's only a low powered
mini box). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 15:46:21 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

snip

Happy as ever to pop over etc. ;-)

I plan to ask you to look at the hp probook anyway.

Scrub that! It has W 7 home premium and I couldn't find the RAM size.

Control Panel System General Tab?

Cheers, T i m

On 15/01/2020 23:10, John Rumm wrote:
On 15/01/2020 21:58, Steve Walker wrote:
On 15/01/2020 19:30, JoeJoe wrote:
On 15/01/2020 18:16, Andy Burns wrote:
JoeJoe wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

I've updated a couple of dozen machines 7-10 in the last year,
most of them got a HD-SSD upgrade at the same time, so the
original disk was there as a backup in case of issues, but was
never needed. they were all allowed to upgrade for free, despite
the official free offer being long gone.

How do you do that?Â* I also want to upgrade Win7-10 as a clean
install on a new SSD.

Didn't do them as clean installs, cloned HD-SSD (reducing partition
size if required) removed HD and stuck on shelf, then perform a
win10 upgrade install in-place over win7, using ISO or USB stick
generated by the Microsoft media creation tool.Â* Later put the HD
back in and reformat as D: drive.

How does the "allowed to upgrade for free" work?

It's just down to Microsoft not really checking, so you get away
with it, these were all machines with "good" win7 pro licences to
start with.

Thanks, worth a shot as all my machines have legit Win 7 licences.

Is there a downside to an upgrade, rather than a clean install?

Once it has upgraded, it should licence itself (assuming that that
still works). From then on, you can wipe it and install from scratch
and as it has already recorded the machine as licenced on the MS
servers, it'll re-activate automatically.

I think you can get away with a clean install in the first place. Just
don't bother entering a win 10 key during installation, but then go back
to the activation page after, and select the option to enter a new
license and enter the Win 7 / 8 key then. (last time I tried it it
worked ok in a "blank" virtual machine)

You certainly could, but I'm not sure I'd trust that now, when the free
upgrade has supposedly ended. People are saying that an upgrade works
and I'd be reluctant to try a clean install route, as it may sort the
licencing in a different way.

SteveW

On 15/01/2020 22:58, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 16:19:12 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 15/01/2020 14:37, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 14:31:42 +0000, T i m wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 14:01:19 +0000, Andrew
wrote:

snip

I just clicked on the 'DownLoad Windows 10 Now' on the Microsoft site
and chose 'Update this PC now' and left it to do its business for a
couple of hours.

Recently?

I used that page and downloaded ISO images last week.

I did it a couple of hours ago...

Still not done it myself (only the original in-situ upgrade and the
manual / fresh one) hence why I was checking the way I believe you
described a while back was still working.

That said, whilst we have several W7 installs here, I can't think of
one I'd want to try / do it on (because the users are happy as they
are and I don't want *any* aggravation because of something that might
not work or is now done even slightly differently. ;-(

Clone the working one onto a spare driver first, then you have an easy
way back :-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 15/01/2020 14:37, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 13:57:18 +0000, T i m wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 13:37:39 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
wrote:

snip

Install Linux (Mint being my distro of choice for a laptop,
Debian for a server) and never worry about Microsoft again.

Except for those Windows Only things that you end up running in WINE,
Dual boot or a Windows VM and you are still running Windows?

I have a Win7 VM. Haven't used it for over a year.

Why do you have it in the first place though?

It's a hangover from when I used to test stuff for work


snip

The shame is that the Linux fraternity couldn't get together and unify
even one distro / spin that the software developers could hang their
hats on then it might be doing better than ~5% of the desktop market
after all these years.

The "killer app" for Linux would be an equivalent for Outlook.

Whist I've always been happy with Thunderbird (or Netscape Communicator
before that (was it?)), I agree re the requirement for Outlook by many.



So what happens. Does Thunderbird get maintained and made to work like
Outlook. No. It's dumped. Meaning Linux has no reliable integrated email/
calendar/MS Exchange program.

Thiunderbirtd still works and has a calendar and is still maintained.

Doesnt talk to exchange of course, excxept via POP, but what ever did?



That would allow 70% of business users of Windows to switch with nary a
whisper.

That and MS Office.

The LibreOffice stuff is serviceable and in the right arena. But the
problem is Outlook is installed before any of that. It's the very first
building block in a standard office build PC.

Is it? Never used it in an office ever


It's the alpha and omega of business use.

The total swerve given by the Linux community to such a project tells me
all I need to know about where it's headed.

(IF you are talking Linux) ... On the same old 'minority interest' 5%
path it's been on for years.

And that's a big shame. I say that who has the choice of Windows and
Linux (typically Mint) dual-boot across and range of machines and it's
always what it can't do, over what it can / does do (and often pretty
well) that is the problem for many.

I really haven't needed Windows since I started with Mint myself

I have.
There is no reliable 3D CAD program that runs onLinux nor can I bear to
part with Corel Draw

And Barclays Bank software still doesn't play nice with linux.

So I kleep some XP on a VM tucked away for all that.


My Multi-Boot pen drive has several Lini (32/64 bit, MATE / Cinnamon
etc) and W10 (32/64).

I can't think how many Linux boot DVD's I've given away and the
frustration I have when someone calls me with a Windows issue that I
could help them with remotely (over the phone) if they used Linux the
Linux DVD but hear they have thrown it away because they didn't want /
like it?

I finally got around to a boot image which has SSH enabled by default (I
still can't quite work out why there isn't one as standard). It's a
godsend for plug-boot-fix. Yes, you need the command line (much like
Microsoft have just invented) but that shouldn't scare a geek.



--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

On 15/01/2020 21:21, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , AJH
writes
On 15/01/2020 13:42, Tim Lamb wrote:
Apart from Turnpike, most of my stuff is either open source or
relatedÂ* to the printer.

Worth giving linux mint a spin then

You can cloneÂ* your current machines W7Â* and run it as a virtual
machine if you want to keep an archive, just don't go online with it
(although I do with my old XP as I keep an old email client which I
use to backup my gmail account)

I'm a user rather than a geek!


Thats why he said Linux Mint


My initial thinking is to stick with W7 and pay for some better protection.

That's what MS wanst you to do,.



--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

Windows 7 had a big extra update on Tuesday night and I installed it
yesterday, the the sky has not fallen in.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 11:04:55 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

Whether yesterday's crypto vulnerability is seen as serious enough that
they do fix it in win7, or whether they'll use it as a big lever to tell
joe public to move to win10 will be interesting ...

The irony is that, apparently, the vulnerability isn't there in Windows 7.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

I don't think in most cases there is any need to run 16bit apps now as all
the main offenders long ago made them 32bit.
I guess there might be a few almost dos level things floating about, but by
far the biggest killer of xp was the loss of support for very popular amd
chips, which meant that many bits of software will crash if one of those
processors without the sse2 instruction set are in use.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Dr S Lartius" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 15 January 2020 11:22:34 UTC, John Rumm wrote:


Win 10 is not too much additional overhead compared to Win 7 - so there
is a reasonable chance many machines with 7 will still work with 10.
Much depends on what kind of spec machine it is. You will also need
about 15GB spare drive space to do an in place upgrade. Having said
that, a clean install of the 64bit version might make more sense.


However, users of elderly systems, perhaps updated from even older
systems, may still be using some 16-bit executables; maybe not as major
applications, but possibly as small but essential components.

AIUI, all Windows before Windows 10 can natively run 16-bit executables,
but 64-bit Windows cannot.

I should shortly be updating a neighbour's Windows 7 system to Windows 10,
and currently intend to get 32-bit, if I can see how.


--
(c) Dr. S. Lartius, UK. Gmail: dr.s.lartius@ |

Well its not crap, its basically an extended 7, but the way its updated so
major every six months is crap, as it means that you have to go through the
hoops of backing up and restoring programs that will work but windows 10
does not want you to use. Bah Humbug. I guess windows like any shell system
is a resource hog, but if you want the non tech folk to use a computer you
have to dumb it down.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
On 15/01/2020 10:20, Tim Lamb wrote:
OK so we listened to the news, read the discussion on 10 upgrade but how
to explain this mornings 250mB update?

More seriously, is W7 32 bit going to sensibly change to W10?
windows 10 is crap....

On 15/01/2020 23:51, Steve Walker wrote:

You certainly could, but I'm not sure I'd trust that now, when the free
upgrade has supposedly ended.


It works fine but it depends. When I last upgraded (2013) I didn't have
the time to self build the machine as normal so I bought a ready built
one with Windows pre-installed. I update this to Win10Pro64 1903 last
June. Compared to Win7, Win10 is significantly faster on the same hardware.

Major machine vendors (Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc.) have been building
Windows licencing info in the BIOS to simplify their installation
processes for years. It's why you could use the reinstallation media on
these machines without being asked for the licence info as the installer
was able to check the BIOS. You could reinstall the same version of
Windows again but not a better version i.e. bought Win 7 Home 32 could
not reinstall Win 7 Pro 64. To do that you'd need a new licence key.

MS called this originally Digital Entitlement and now Digital Licencing.

I lifted these rules from a website:

Windows 10 will use the €œdigital license€� (digital entitlement)
activation method, if one of the following is true:

Youre upgrading a genuine copy of Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 to
Windows 10 for free.
Youve purchased a copy of Windows 10 in the Windows Store and
successfully activated Windows 10.
Youve purchased a Windows 10 Pro upgrade in the Windows Store and
successfully activated Windows 10.
Youre part of the Windows Insider Program and you have upgraded
your genuine activated copy Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 to the latest
Windows 10 Insider Preview build.

Windows 10 will use the product key activation method, if one of the
following is true:

You have obtained a copy of Windows 10 from an authorized retailer.
You have obtained a digital copy of Windows 10 from an authorized
retailer.
Youre using the Volume Licensing agreement for Windows 10 or MSDN
subscription.
You have purchased a new computer running Windows 10.
Genuine copies

You can ask why MS is happy to allow people to get a new version for
free. Replies will range from conspiracy theories of better monitoring
of what people are doing to simple business of reducing the money spent
on having to support so many different versions of Windows. And, the
number of people competent to do an install or upgrade is not
significant against the number who will just buy a new PC.

In message , "Brian Gaff (Sofa 2)"
writes
Windows 7 had a big extra update on Tuesday night and I installed it
yesterday, the the sky has not fallen in.

And a further 3.9 meg. update this morning.

--
Tim Lamb

In message , T i m
writes
On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 15:46:21 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

snip

Happy as ever to pop over etc. ;-)

I plan to ask you to look at the hp probook anyway.

Scrub that! It has W 7 home premium and I couldn't find the RAM size.

Control Panel System General Tab?

Probably:-)
It has gone back in the drawer.

--
Tim Lamb

On 15/01/2020 14:31, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 14:01:19 +0000, Andrew
wrote:

snip

I just clicked on the 'DownLoad Windows 10 Now' on
the Microsoft site and chose 'Update this PC now'
and left it to do its business for a couple of hours.

Recently?

Cheers, T i m


Yesterday, at about 9AM (15/1/2020)

It was quiet painless. Took far less time than GParted took
to shuffle my C,D and E partitions beforehand.

Now I am struggling to find the Windows 10 controls that existed
in Win7 that allowed me to alter all the systems fonts used to
control windows borders, frames, text displays etc.

I have even had to set Tbird to 'dark' mode to make it readable.

Well Win10 Pro/32 still runs Heatloss manager 1998 on my PC !,
and Lightroom 3.6, Photoshop elements 9, Micrografx Picture Publisher 8
and Irfanview still work.

Windows 10 refused to play with an ATI front panel that came with the
2011 Gigabyte Motherboard and something else I had forgotten I had
downloaded and that is it.

Andrew



On 16/01/2020 07:20, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote:
I don't think in most cases there is any need to run 16bit apps now as all
the main offenders long ago made them 32bit.
I guess there might be a few almost dos level things floating about, but by
far the biggest killer of xp was the loss of support for very popular amd
chips, which meant that many bits of software will crash if one of those
processors without the sse2 instruction set are in use.
Brian

I had a look at the the Windows Event Log after upgrading to Win10
Pro/32 and all the logs had been cleared out and started afresh from the
time that Win10 was installed.

the Applications log contains numerous events described as Win7-** !

Andrew

On 16/01/2020 07:24, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote:
Well its not crap, its basically an extended 7, but the way its updated so
major every six months is crap, as it means that you have to go through the
hoops of backing up and restoring programs that will work but windows 10
does not want you to use. Bah Humbug. I guess windows like any shell system
is a resource hog, but if you want the non tech folk to use a computer you
have to dumb it down.
Brian

On 16/01/2020 09:49, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , T i m
writes
On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 15:46:21 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

snip

Happy as ever to pop over etc. ;-)

I plan to ask you to look at the hp probook anyway.

Scrub that! It has W 7 home premium and I couldn't find the RAM size.

Control Panel System General Tab?

Probably:-)
Â*It has gone back in the drawer.


Doesn't the screen show the bios info before Windows starts ?.
Mine does, shows the amount of RAM, its checked status and the
attached disks.

On 16/01/2020 09:41, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , "Brian Gaff (Sofa 2)"
writes
Windows 7 had a big extra update on Tuesday night and I installed it
yesterday, theÂ* the sky has not fallen in.

And a further 3.9 meg. update this morning.


And a full screen NAG about no more protection on Wednesday morning
just before I switched to Win 10.

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 16/01/2020 09:49, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , T i m
writes
On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 15:46:21 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

snip

Happy as ever to pop over etc. ;-)

I plan to ask you to look at the hp probook anyway.

Scrub that! It has W 7 home premium and I couldn't find the RAM size.

Control Panel System General Tab?

Probably:-)
It has gone back in the drawer.


Doesn't the screen show the bios info before Windows starts ?.
Mine does, shows the amount of RAM, its checked status and the
attached disks.

Plenty of bios dont.

On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 23:51:28 +0000, Steve Walker
wrote:

snip
I think you can get away with a clean install in the first place. Just
don't bother entering a win 10 key during installation, but then go back
to the activation page after, and select the option to enter a new
license and enter the Win 7 / 8 key then. (last time I tried it it
worked ok in a "blank" virtual machine)

You certainly could, but I'm not sure I'd trust that now, when the free
upgrade has supposedly ended.

I typically do that (so I can see if W10 works on that particular HW
before wasting a COA) and have done so quite recently (a couple of
weeks).

Cheers, T i m

On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 01:16:22 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

snip

Still not done it myself (only the original in-situ upgrade and the
manual / fresh one) hence why I was checking the way I believe you
described a while back was still working.

That said, whilst we have several W7 installs here, I can't think of
one I'd want to try / do it on (because the users are happy as they
are and I don't want *any* aggravation because of something that might
not work or is now done even slightly differently. ;-(

Clone the working one onto a spare driver first, then you have an easy
way back :-)

Yeah, that's what I generally do anyway if a drive contains *anything*
that the owner considers important.

A mate gave me his laptop recently for it's 'MOT / general cleanup'
and after I'd given it back he asked where the stuff in the recycle
bin had gone?

I explained that if he didn't actually want to risk the deletion of
such files he create a 'Junk' folder on the desktop and stick it in
there instead. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 10:18:40 +0000, Andrew
wrote:

On 15/01/2020 14:31, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 14:01:19 +0000, Andrew
wrote:

snip

I just clicked on the 'DownLoad Windows 10 Now' on
the Microsoft site and chose 'Update this PC now'
and left it to do its business for a couple of hours.

Recently?

Cheers, T i m


Yesterday, at about 9AM (15/1/2020)

Ta.

It was quiet painless. Took far less time than GParted took
to shuffle my C,D and E partitions beforehand.

Yes, that can take a time, especially if there is any data to move
with it. With an empty drive it's nearly instant. ;-)

Now I am struggling to find the Windows 10 controls that existed
in Win7 that allowed me to alter all the systems fonts used to
control windows borders, frames, text displays etc.

Yup, that's one of the frustrating things about W10, getting back to
all the basic stuff you need just to do what you want is more
complicated.

I have even had to set Tbird to 'dark' mode to make it readable.

Sounds about right.

Cheers, T i m

On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 06:11:16 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 15/01/2020 21:21, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , AJH
writes
On 15/01/2020 13:42, Tim Lamb wrote:
Apart from Turnpike, most of my stuff is either open source or
related* to the printer.

Worth giving linux mint a spin then

You can clone* your current machines W7* and run it as a virtual
machine if you want to keep an archive, just don't go online with it
(although I do with my old XP as I keep an old email client which I
use to backup my gmail account)

I'm a user rather than a geek!


Thats why he said Linux Mint

Whilst Mint is ok for most people to use OOTB, it's still Linux under
the DE and therefore little better than the best user Lini re fixing
things if / when they go wrong or doing things that are often Windows
Centric in the first place.

Like, if a man in a shed hasn't made something easier by writing a GUI
interface for some Linux CLI stuff, for most users it's all just
gobbledygook.

Cheers, T i m

On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 22:01:06 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

snip

Doesn't the screen show the bios info before Windows starts ?.
Mine does, shows the amount of RAM, its checked status and the
attached disks.

Plenty of bios don’t.

Plenty of BIOS's can be set to if they don't by default.

Cheers, T i m

On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 22:01:06 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Doesn't the screen show the bios info before Windows starts ?.
Mine does, shows the amount of RAM, its checked status and the
attached disks.

Plenty of bios don¢t.

LOL Auto-contradicting clinically insane idiot!

--
Marland about senile Rodent's tall stories:
"Do you really think people believe your stories you come up with to boost
your self esteem."
Message-ID: