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  #161   Report Post  
Old October 9th 19, 04:54 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Why do LEDs generate heat?

On Wednesday, 9 October 2019 14:59:22 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:


So what do washing machines use, AC or DC?


Water and some sort of cleaning chemicals dependent on personal choice.



since they can rotate either way, does that mean they have to be DC? Or
can it be AC using different coils?

Or driven differently. Is a stepper motor DC or AC ?

I don't know. I've only used them briefly in radio control models, but
not looked at the circuitry in great detail.


You don't need to. You know the basics of how they are
driven. The problem is with whether that is called AC or DC.
Strictly speaking it isnt either.


Does the current flow one way or both?


I'm guessing it flows the way it wants, usually from a hight potentail differnce to a lower potential differnce.
Depending on whther you are talking about real current or conventail current.


Any idea where I can find out what a typical home's power factor is nowadays?


I thought you claimed you could measure it.


  #162   Report Post  
Old October 9th 19, 05:10 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Troll-feeding Senile ASSHOLE Alert!

On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 08:54:28 -0700 (PDT), whisky-depraved, the notorious,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


I thought you claimed you could measure it.


*I* claim that you are a troll-feeding ASSHOLE. And YOU keep proving it,
time and again, sick asshole!
  #163   Report Post  
Old October 9th 19, 06:55 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 71
Default Why do LEDs generate heat?



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 08 Oct 2019 00:35:08 +0100, AlexK wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 06 Oct 2019 22:42:41 +0100, AlexK wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sun, 06 Oct 2019 06:02:46 +0100, AlexK wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sun, 06 Oct 2019 00:05:40 +0100, AlexK wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news I thought all motors created the same inductive load,

But not necessarily on the mains, that's what matters
with the more sophisticated motors used in stuff like
washing machines etc now.

Are they fed by altered AC or by DC?

They arent on the mains. They are driven by the electronics.
Similar to the difference between a conventional transformered
power supply and a modern switch mode power supply instead.

I know they don't get driven directly from the mains, as they need to
go
different speeds.

So their power factor is no longer relevant to the mains.

But are they DC or AC?

It isnt the black and white with those. Same with universal motors.


Explain.


Universal motors run on AC or DC, that's where the name comes from.


So what do washing machines use, AC or DC?


It isnt that black and white with the more fancy
motors used in the best washing machine designs.

since they can rotate either way, does that mean they have to be DC?
Or
can it be AC using different coils?

Or driven differently. Is a stepper motor DC or AC ?

I don't know. I've only used them briefly in radio control models, but
not looked at the circuitry in great detail.


You don't need to. You know the basics of how they are
driven. The problem is with whether that is called AC or DC.
Strictly speaking it isnt either.


Does the current flow one way or both?


That's not what determines if its AC or DC.

and had to be compensated for if you wanted unity PF.

There is no point in the cost of doing that with domestic
appliances.

I know, I just thought that was the only way to remove the PF of any
motor.

The other obvious way is to drive it with the electronics
instead of having it on the mains. Most obviously with
a stepper motor, although that isnt what is used in
washing machines.

Depends what the electronics is as to whether it blocks the PF?

Its not blocking that matters, what matters in this
context is what the mains sees of the entire appliance.

That's my point. Can PF be seen through a transformer or power supply?


No it cant with those fancy motors in washing machines etc now.


I thought I'd try to find out a typical power factor for a domestic
street, so I checked https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/


That doesn't show that for domestic streets.

Although it doesn't have power factor measured, I was interested to see
that at the current time (3pm Wed 9th Oct 2019), wind power is generated
one THIRD of the UK's usage. I thought renewables were pitiful....


Any idea where I can find out what a typical home's power factor is
nowadays?


Only real way to do that would be to measure
it and its unlikely that anyone does that much.

This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com


You can turn that off and it isnt an email, it's a usenet post.

  #164   Report Post  
Old October 9th 19, 07:27 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,315
Default Why do LEDs generate heat?

On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 18:55:22 +0100, AlexK wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 08 Oct 2019 00:35:08 +0100, AlexK wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sun, 06 Oct 2019 22:42:41 +0100, AlexK wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sun, 06 Oct 2019 06:02:46 +0100, AlexK wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sun, 06 Oct 2019 00:05:40 +0100, AlexK wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news I thought all motors created the same inductive load,

But not necessarily on the mains, that's what matters
with the more sophisticated motors used in stuff like
washing machines etc now.

Are they fed by altered AC or by DC?

They arent on the mains. They are driven by the electronics.
Similar to the difference between a conventional transformered
power supply and a modern switch mode power supply instead.

I know they don't get driven directly from the mains, as they need to
go
different speeds.

So their power factor is no longer relevant to the mains.

But are they DC or AC?

It isnt the black and white with those. Same with universal motors.

Explain.

Universal motors run on AC or DC, that's where the name comes from.


So what do washing machines use, AC or DC?


It isnt that black and white with the more fancy
motors used in the best washing machine designs.

since they can rotate either way, does that mean they have to be DC?
Or
can it be AC using different coils?

Or driven differently. Is a stepper motor DC or AC ?

I don't know. I've only used them briefly in radio control models, but
not looked at the circuitry in great detail.

You don't need to. You know the basics of how they are
driven. The problem is with whether that is called AC or DC.
Strictly speaking it isnt either.


Does the current flow one way or both?


That's not what determines if its AC or DC.


Yes it is. For example a pulse width modulated voltage, which is only either 0V or 12V, is still DC. It's not a steady DC, but the current's only traveling one way.

and had to be compensated for if you wanted unity PF.

There is no point in the cost of doing that with domestic
appliances.

I know, I just thought that was the only way to remove the PF of any
motor.

The other obvious way is to drive it with the electronics
instead of having it on the mains. Most obviously with
a stepper motor, although that isnt what is used in
washing machines.

Depends what the electronics is as to whether it blocks the PF?

Its not blocking that matters, what matters in this
context is what the mains sees of the entire appliance.

That's my point. Can PF be seen through a transformer or power supply?

No it cant with those fancy motors in washing machines etc now.


I thought I'd try to find out a typical power factor for a domestic
street, so I checked https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/


That doesn't show that for domestic streets.

Although it doesn't have power factor measured, I was interested to see
that at the current time (3pm Wed 9th Oct 2019), wind power is generated
one THIRD of the UK's usage. I thought renewables were pitiful....


Any idea where I can find out what a typical home's power factor is
nowadays?


Only real way to do that would be to measure
it and its unlikely that anyone does that much.


I thought power companies liked to know these things for transmission line efficiency - hence business are charged extra for a bad PF.

This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com


You can turn that off


New computer and I forgot.

and it isnt an email, it's a usenet post.


Tell AVG that.
  #165   Report Post  
Old October 9th 19, 07:53 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,531
Default More Heavy Trolling by Senile Nym-Shifting Rodent Speed!

On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 04:55:22 +1100, AlexK, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH another 118 !!! lines of retarded troll****

....and much better air in here again!


--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:


  #166   Report Post  
Old October 9th 19, 09:22 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Sep 2019
Posts: 71
Default Why do LEDs generate heat?



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 18:55:22 +0100, AlexK wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 08 Oct 2019 00:35:08 +0100, AlexK wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sun, 06 Oct 2019 22:42:41 +0100, AlexK wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sun, 06 Oct 2019 06:02:46 +0100, AlexK wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sun, 06 Oct 2019 00:05:40 +0100, AlexK wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news I thought all motors created the same inductive load,

But not necessarily on the mains, that's what matters
with the more sophisticated motors used in stuff like
washing machines etc now.

Are they fed by altered AC or by DC?

They arent on the mains. They are driven by the electronics.
Similar to the difference between a conventional transformered
power supply and a modern switch mode power supply instead.

I know they don't get driven directly from the mains, as they need
to
go
different speeds.

So their power factor is no longer relevant to the mains.

But are they DC or AC?

It isnt the black and white with those. Same with universal motors.

Explain.

Universal motors run on AC or DC, that's where the name comes from.

So what do washing machines use, AC or DC?


It isnt that black and white with the more fancy
motors used in the best washing machine designs.

since they can rotate either way, does that mean they have to be DC?
Or
can it be AC using different coils?

Or driven differently. Is a stepper motor DC or AC ?

I don't know. I've only used them briefly in radio control models,
but
not looked at the circuitry in great detail.

You don't need to. You know the basics of how they are
driven. The problem is with whether that is called AC or DC.
Strictly speaking it isnt either.

Does the current flow one way or both?


That's not what determines if its AC or DC.


Yes it is.


No it isnt.

For example a pulse width modulated voltage, which is only either 0V or
12V, is still DC.


Its still DC when the direction of the current changes with
an agitating direct drive top loading washing machine.

It's not a steady DC, but the current's only traveling one way.


Not with an agitating direct drive top loading washing machine.

and had to be compensated for if you wanted unity PF.

There is no point in the cost of doing that with domestic
appliances.

I know, I just thought that was the only way to remove the PF of
any
motor.

The other obvious way is to drive it with the electronics
instead of having it on the mains. Most obviously with
a stepper motor, although that isnt what is used in
washing machines.

Depends what the electronics is as to whether it blocks the PF?

Its not blocking that matters, what matters in this
context is what the mains sees of the entire appliance.

That's my point. Can PF be seen through a transformer or power
supply?

No it cant with those fancy motors in washing machines etc now.


I thought I'd try to find out a typical power factor for a domestic
street, so I checked https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/


That doesn't show that for domestic streets.

Although it doesn't have power factor measured, I was interested to see
that at the current time (3pm Wed 9th Oct 2019), wind power is generated
one THIRD of the UK's usage. I thought renewables were pitiful....


Any idea where I can find out what a typical home's power factor is
nowadays?


Only real way to do that would be to measure
it and its unlikely that anyone does that much.


I thought power companies liked to know these things for transmission line
efficiency


They don't bother with houses. Just accept
the fact that its never going to be 1.

- hence business are charged extra for a bad PF.


But houses don't.

This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com


You can turn that off


New computer and I forgot.

and it isnt an email, it's a usenet post.


Tell AVG that.


They arent interested.

  #167   Report Post  
Old October 9th 19, 09:46 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,531
Default FLUSH 160 !!! Lines of the Two Clinically Insane Idiots' Troll****!

....and much better air in here, again!

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 85-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/
  #168   Report Post  
Old October 9th 19, 10:33 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,890
Default Why do LEDs generate heat?

On 09/10/2019 16:54, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 9 October 2019 14:59:22 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:


So what do washing machines use, AC or DC?


Water and some sort of cleaning chemicals dependent on personal choice.


A few years ago Which? reviewed a washing machine that didn't use
detergent: it sort of passed an electric current through the water. I
don't know how good it was: apparently washing normally with detergent
uses some kind of electric charge to clean fabric as just passing the
water through the fibres isn't enough to remove the dirt.

--
Max Demian
  #169   Report Post  
Old October 10th 19, 12:16 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,315
Default Why do LEDs generate heat?

On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 22:33:40 +0100, Max Demian wrote:

On 09/10/2019 16:54, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 9 October 2019 14:59:22 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:


So what do washing machines use, AC or DC?


Water and some sort of cleaning chemicals dependent on personal choice.


A few years ago Which? reviewed a washing machine that didn't use
detergent: it sort of passed an electric current through the water. I
don't know how good it was: apparently washing normally with detergent
uses some kind of electric charge to clean fabric as just passing the
water through the fibres isn't enough to remove the dirt.


Do you have a link? Google ain't working.
  #170   Report Post  
Old October 10th 19, 11:49 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,890
Default Why do LEDs generate heat?

On 10/10/2019 00:16, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 22:33:40 +0100, Max Demian
wrote:

On 09/10/2019 16:54, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 9 October 2019 14:59:22 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey* wrote:


So what do washing machines use, AC or DC?

Water and some sort of cleaning chemicals dependent on personal choice.


A few years ago Which? reviewed a washing machine that didn't use
detergent: it sort of passed an electric current through the water. I
don't know how good it was: apparently washing normally with detergent
uses some kind of electric charge to clean fabric as just passing the
water through the fibres isn't enough to remove the dirt.


Do you have a link?* Google ain't working.


For the latter, I was thinking of the following - click on "show
transcript":
https://www.abc.net.au/radionational...t-one/10994412
https://www.abc.net.au/radionational...t-two/11020360

Not electrical, as I (mis)remembered: The detergent (presumably - it
doesn't actually say) loosens the dirt in the tiny channels in the
fabric, then, when rinsing in clean water, the detergent diffuses out
taking the dirt with it. So it's the rinsing that removes the dirt: it's
not just to remove the detergent.

I can't find a reference to Which?'s "electric washing machine." It was
some years ago.

--
Max Demian


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