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Default Why do LEDs generate heat?

On Friday, 25 October 2019 20:47:07 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 15 Oct 2019 10:46:34 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Monday, 14 October 2019 20:07:25 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 11:49:46 +0100, Max Demian wrote:

On 10/10/2019 00:16, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 22:33:40 +0100, Max Demian
wrote:

On 09/10/2019 16:54, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 9 October 2019 14:59:22 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:


So what do washing machines use, AC or DC?

Water and some sort of cleaning chemicals dependent on personal choice.

A few years ago Which? reviewed a washing machine that didn't use
detergent: it sort of passed an electric current through the water.. I
don't know how good it was: apparently washing normally with detergent
uses some kind of electric charge to clean fabric as just passing the
water through the fibres isn't enough to remove the dirt.

Do you have a link? Google ain't working.

For the latter, I was thinking of the following - click on "show
transcript":
https://www.abc.net.au/radionational...t-one/10994412

This amused me!

"But theres another surprising advantage of not making lots of fur. Fur is made from proteins. If youre not putting your protein into fur, well, you can use it to bulk up your brain. Maybe losing our body fur made us into the clever folk we are today."

So I was right, hairy folk are Neanderthal ****wits.


yes and why most of us have evolved without fur, which is a trade-off which means we get cold quicker, because the energy we used to use just to keep us warm now goes into feeding our brain rather than wasted in produciung heat.


Bull****, we can produce heat as and when required.

Only to a limited degree that's why lots of explorers died at the North and south poles over the years.

But with fur, you can't cool down with sweat.


yes yuo can, through a tongnue or nose and eleephantsb use their ears.

In summer you're ****ed, which is why cats doze off all the time.

So they don;t have to waste energy to heat themselves unlike you which means less energy for the brain, which can be used for other things, which is why the human being in general is the most evolved species on the planets because of the brain, but I can understand why you are jealous. So why not learn from superior inteligence of teh human race rather that sit in a stream of cold water and thinking you've evolved more than everyone else as most of us don't see the point unless it;s some sort of festish you have.


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Default Troll-feeding Senile ASSHOLE Alert!

On Mon, 28 Oct 2019 05:24:48 -0700 (PDT), whisky-depraved, the notorious,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

FLUSH the two retarded idiots' latest retarded bull****

....and better air in here again!
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Default Why do LEDs generate heat?

On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 23:52:39 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.z9vdytajwdg98l@glass...
On Sun, 13 Oct 2019 22:16:39 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 21:22:14 +0100, AlexK wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news For example a pulse width modulated voltage, which is only either 0V
or
12V, is still DC.

Its still DC when the direction of the current changes with
an agitating direct drive top loading washing machine.

It's not a steady DC, but the current's only traveling one way.

Not with an agitating direct drive top loading washing machine.

I guess it depends for how long it flows each way. If it's required to
change direction for the motor to work, it's AC.

In fact its not either and your original question is simplistic.

In spades with universal motors which can be driven with AC or DC.


My question was quite simple,


Mindlessly simplistic, actually, as usual.

what is a washing machine motor driven with?


Electricity, stupid.

You can draw a graph if you want.


I dont.


So you claim to know a lot about them but can't be bothered telling anyone. Great. Why are you in here again?

and had to be compensated for if you wanted unity PF.

There is no point in the cost of doing that with domestic
appliances.

I know, I just thought that was the only way to remove the PF
of
any
motor.

The other obvious way is to drive it with the electronics
instead of having it on the mains. Most obviously with
a stepper motor, although that isnt what is used in
washing machines.

Depends what the electronics is as to whether it blocks the PF?

Its not blocking that matters, what matters in this
context is what the mains sees of the entire appliance.

That's my point. Can PF be seen through a transformer or power
supply?

No it cant with those fancy motors in washing machines etc now..

I thought I'd try to find out a typical power factor for a domestic
street, so I checked https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

That doesn't show that for domestic streets.

Although it doesn't have power factor measured, I was interested to
see
that at the current time (3pm Wed 9th Oct 2019), wind power is
generated
one THIRD of the UK's usage. I thought renewables were pitiful.....

Any idea where I can find out what a typical home's power factor is
nowadays?

Only real way to do that would be to measure
it and its unlikely that anyone does that much.

I thought power companies liked to know these things for transmission
line efficiency

They don't bother with houses. Just accept
the fact that its never going to be 1.

How come expensive power supplies intended for gaming enthusiasts

What are they powering ?


12VDC devices, such as a large graphics card and CPU.


OK, didnt realise that you meant those desktop PSs.

have good power factor?


They dont.

Its very far from clear that they do.


"Power Factor
This factor is the result of the ratio between effective power and
apparent power, falling somewhere between 0 (worst) and 1 (ideal). Thus,
the higher the power factor the less energy goes wasted back to the mains
network. Although residential consumers do not have to pay for apparent
power, in order to minimize apparent power usage, the EU standard
EN61000-3-2 states that all switched mode power supplies with output power
of more than 75W


Thats not "expensive power supplies intended for gaming enthusiasts"

must include a passive PFC converter. In addition, 80 PLUS certification
requires a power factor of 0.9 or more. Some years ago, many PSU
manufacturers used passive PFC in their products. PPFC uses a filter that
passes current only at line frequency, 50 or 60Hz, so the harmonic current
is reduced and the nonlinear load is transformed to a linear load. Then,
with the usage of capacitors or inductors, the power factor can be brought
close to unity. The disadvantage of PPFC is that it attains smaller power
factors than APFC and requires a voltage doubler for the PSU to be
compatible with 115/230V. On the contrary, PPFC has higher efficiency than
APFC, something that probably most of you didnt know. But that doesn't
mean PPFC-equipped PSUs are more efficient than APFC ones, since PPFC
units are often based on older designs that cannot compete with the
performance of modern APFC PSUs."

From:
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...de,2916-4.html

They're only going to be connected to a domestic supply.

If they do have good power factors, it would be by accident,
not because they are designed to have good power factors.


It would be because of regulations, as per what I quoted above.


Thats not "expensive power supplies intended for gaming enthusiasts"


Yes it is. If you buy a Corsair PSU (or similar good make) for your desktop PC, it will have a good high wattage and be able to produce that maximum power continuously, and simply switch off if you overload it, and also have good power factor correction. They seem to go hand in hand - better built supplies. But buy some cheap **** by Alpine, and you'll find it goes bang if you run it at over 50% of its rating for very long, plus the power factor correction is non existant.

- hence business are charged extra for a bad PF.

But houses don't.

This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

You can turn that off

New computer and I forgot.

and it isnt an email, it's a usenet post.

Tell AVG that.

They arent interested.

Well don't tell me because I can't change the way AVG works.

You can certainly change whether it ends up; in your usenet posts and
have
done.


Then you only needed your first sentence: "You can turn that off"


And I did the other one too. You get to like that of lump it.


You didn't need to say it, all you've done is start a childish contradiction.
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Default Why do LEDs generate heat?



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.0ad0cfi0wdg98l@glass...
On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 23:52:39 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.z9vdytajwdg98l@glass...
On Sun, 13 Oct 2019 22:16:39 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 21:22:14 +0100, AlexK wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news For example a pulse width modulated voltage, which is only either 0V
or
12V, is still DC.

Its still DC when the direction of the current changes with
an agitating direct drive top loading washing machine.

It's not a steady DC, but the current's only traveling one way.

Not with an agitating direct drive top loading washing machine.

I guess it depends for how long it flows each way. If it's required
to
change direction for the motor to work, it's AC.

In fact its not either and your original question is simplistic.

In spades with universal motors which can be driven with AC or DC.


My question was quite simple,


Mindlessly simplistic, actually, as usual.

what is a washing machine motor driven with?


Electricity, stupid.

You can draw a graph if you want.


I dont.


So you claim to know a lot about them


I made no such claim.

but can't be bothered telling anyone.


Cant be bothered pandering to your pathetic excuse for trolling, actually.

Great. Why are you in here again?


To **** on you from a great height.

and had to be compensated for if you wanted unity PF.

There is no point in the cost of doing that with domestic
appliances.

I know, I just thought that was the only way to remove the
PF
of
any
motor.

The other obvious way is to drive it with the electronics
instead of having it on the mains. Most obviously with
a stepper motor, although that isnt what is used in
washing machines.

Depends what the electronics is as to whether it blocks the
PF?

Its not blocking that matters, what matters in this
context is what the mains sees of the entire appliance.

That's my point. Can PF be seen through a transformer or power
supply?

No it cant with those fancy motors in washing machines etc now.

I thought I'd try to find out a typical power factor for a
domestic
street, so I checked https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

That doesn't show that for domestic streets.

Although it doesn't have power factor measured, I was interested
to
see
that at the current time (3pm Wed 9th Oct 2019), wind power is
generated
one THIRD of the UK's usage. I thought renewables were
pitiful....

Any idea where I can find out what a typical home's power factor
is
nowadays?

Only real way to do that would be to measure
it and its unlikely that anyone does that much.

I thought power companies liked to know these things for
transmission
line efficiency

They don't bother with houses. Just accept
the fact that its never going to be 1.

How come expensive power supplies intended for gaming enthusiasts

What are they powering ?

12VDC devices, such as a large graphics card and CPU.


OK, didnt realise that you meant those desktop PSs.

have good power factor?


They dont.

Its very far from clear that they do.


"Power Factor
This factor is the result of the ratio between effective power and
apparent power, falling somewhere between 0 (worst) and 1 (ideal). Thus,
the higher the power factor the less energy goes wasted back to the
mains
network. Although residential consumers do not have to pay for apparent
power, in order to minimize apparent power usage, the EU standard
EN61000-3-2 states that all switched mode power supplies with output
power
of more than 75W


Thats not "expensive power supplies intended for gaming enthusiasts"

must include a passive PFC converter. In addition, 80 PLUS certification
requires a power factor of 0.9 or more. Some years ago, many PSU
manufacturers used passive PFC in their products. PPFC uses a filter
that
passes current only at line frequency, 50 or 60Hz, so the harmonic
current
is reduced and the nonlinear load is transformed to a linear load. Then,
with the usage of capacitors or inductors, the power factor can be
brought
close to unity. The disadvantage of PPFC is that it attains smaller
power
factors than APFC and requires a voltage doubler for the PSU to be
compatible with 115/230V. On the contrary, PPFC has higher efficiency
than
APFC, something that probably most of you didnt know. But that doesn't
mean PPFC-equipped PSUs are more efficient than APFC ones, since PPFC
units are often based on older designs that cannot compete with the
performance of modern APFC PSUs."

From:
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...de,2916-4.html

They're only going to be connected to a domestic supply.

If they do have good power factors, it would be by accident,
not because they are designed to have good power factors.

It would be because of regulations, as per what I quoted above.


Thats not "expensive power supplies intended for gaming enthusiasts"


Yes it is.


Bull****.

If you buy a Corsair PSU (or similar good make) for your desktop PC, it
will have a good high wattage and be able to produce that maximum power
continuously, and simply switch off if you overload it, and also have good
power factor correction.


Nothing to do with gaming enthusiasts, stupid.

They seem to go hand in hand - better built supplies.


Not necessarily with power factor correction.

But buy some cheap **** by Alpine, and you'll find it goes bang if you run
it at over 50% of its rating for very long,


Mine never did.

plus the power factor correction is non existant.


Hardly surprising with the cheaper power supplys
and again, nothing to do with gaming enthusiasts.

- hence business are charged extra for a bad PF.

But houses don't.

This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

You can turn that off

New computer and I forgot.

and it isnt an email, it's a usenet post.

Tell AVG that.

They arent interested.

Well don't tell me because I can't change the way AVG works.

You can certainly change whether it ends up in your usenet posts and
have done.

Then you only needed your first sentence: "You can turn that off"


And I did the other one too. You get to like that of lump it.


You didn't need to say it, all you've done is start a childish
contradiction.


Wrong, as always.

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Default FLUSH another 236 !!! Lines of the two Sociopath's sick ****!

FLUSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

--
Typical retarded "conversation" between the Scottish ****** and the senile
Ozzietard:

Birdbrain: "Horse **** doesn't stink."

Senile Rodent: "It does if you roll in it."

Birdbrain: "I've never worked out why, I assumed it was maybe meateaters
that made stinky ****, but then why does vegetarian human **** stink? Is it
just the fact that we're capable of digesting meat?"

Senile Rodent: "Nope, some cow **** stinks too."

Message-ID:


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Default Why do LEDs generate heat?

On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 10:58:58 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Monday, 21 October 2019 21:02:48 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2019 13:01:29 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Friday, 11 October 2019 20:08:35 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 14:04:03 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 9 October 2019 01:08:01 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 07 Oct 2019 12:59:03 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Friday, 4 October 2019 16:34:01 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 04 Oct 2019 16:28:06 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:


I just tested one of mine with a meter, and it gave a power factor of 1.00, at 256V, 9.8W.


I doubt that it's just the LED, you shouldn't include the PSU in such calculations especailly if running off mains AC, because you're including the LED+PSU so not really gettign any info about the actual LED.

Why should I not include the whole unit? Surely that's all that matters.

That depends on the statement yuo wish to make.
If you want to test the power factor of an LED then that is what you test for.
If you want to test the power factor of an PSU then that is what you test for.
otherwise the test is pretty meaningless.

All we care about is the power factor of the whole unit. You don't have LEDs on their own.

I do in fact most products have LEDs that aren;t directly connected to mains voltages.
Think or all the LEDS in a TV screen 1000s of them, and in phones.
How about car headlights ?

But what does power factor mean in those circumstances?

Little to the user, but the designer would be interested.


Does it even make sense? Can a DC device even have a power factor?


Yes it can.


What does it mean? I can understand lagging or leading current in AC, but how can that happen in DC?

The only thing that matters is the power factor presented to the mains supply,

which could depend on teh rest of the circuit.

on the other side of the LED power circuitry.

whatever that means, do you know.


I mean what the mains sees.


The mains will see what power is taken by whatever yuo are using as a power supply rather than the actual LED.


Surely the power supply doesn't completely hide its load? If you put an inductive load onto the secondary of a simple transformer, or a resistive load on the same transformer, can't you detect the difference on the primary side?
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Default Why do LEDs generate heat?



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.0awg1ojnwdg98l@glass...
On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 10:58:58 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Monday, 21 October 2019 21:02:48 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2019 13:01:29 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Friday, 11 October 2019 20:08:35 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 14:04:03 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Wednesday, 9 October 2019 01:08:01 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
On Mon, 07 Oct 2019 12:59:03 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Friday, 4 October 2019 16:34:01 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
On Fri, 04 Oct 2019 16:28:06 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:


I just tested one of mine with a meter, and it gave a power
factor of 1.00, at 256V, 9.8W.


I doubt that it's just the LED, you shouldn't include the PSU
in such calculations especailly if running off mains AC,
because you're including the LED+PSU so not really gettign
any info about the actual LED.

Why should I not include the whole unit? Surely that's all
that matters.

That depends on the statement yuo wish to make.
If you want to test the power factor of an LED then that is what
you test for.
If you want to test the power factor of an PSU then that is what
you test for.
otherwise the test is pretty meaningless.

All we care about is the power factor of the whole unit. You
don't have LEDs on their own.

I do in fact most products have LEDs that aren;t directly connected
to mains voltages.
Think or all the LEDS in a TV screen 1000s of them, and in phones.
How about car headlights ?

But what does power factor mean in those circumstances?

Little to the user, but the designer would be interested.

Does it even make sense? Can a DC device even have a power factor?


Yes it can.


What does it mean? I can understand lagging or leading current in AC, but
how can that happen in DC?

The only thing that matters is the power factor presented to the
mains supply,

which could depend on teh rest of the circuit.

on the other side of the LED power circuitry.

whatever that means, do you know.

I mean what the mains sees.


The mains will see what power is taken by whatever yuo are using as a
power supply rather than the actual LED.


Surely the power supply doesn't completely hide its load?


Yes it can.

If you put an inductive load onto the secondary of a simple transformer,
or a resistive

load on the same transformer, can't you detect the difference on the
primary side?

Yes, but that's not the only sort of power supply possible.

A perfect power supply that is completely power factor corrected
and which produced DC which is inverted to say drive an inductive
load like a motor will completely hide its load.

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Default Lonely Psychotic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert!

On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 07:28:13 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH 93 !!! lines of the two prize idiots' latest troll**** unread


--
Another retarded "conversation" between Birdbrain and senile Rodent:

Senile Rodent: " Did you ever dig a hole to bury your own ****?"

Birdbrain: "I do if there's no flush toilet around."

Senile Rodent: "Yeah, I prefer camping like that, off by myself with
no dunnys around and have always buried the ****."

MID:
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Default Why do LEDs generate heat?

On Thursday, 7 November 2019 19:42:55 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 10:58:58 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Monday, 21 October 2019 21:02:48 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2019 13:01:29 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Friday, 11 October 2019 20:08:35 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 14:04:03 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 9 October 2019 01:08:01 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 07 Oct 2019 12:59:03 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Friday, 4 October 2019 16:34:01 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 04 Oct 2019 16:28:06 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:


I just tested one of mine with a meter, and it gave a power factor of 1.00, at 256V, 9.8W.


I doubt that it's just the LED, you shouldn't include the PSU in such calculations especailly if running off mains AC, because you're including the LED+PSU so not really gettign any info about the actual LED.

Why should I not include the whole unit? Surely that's all that matters.

That depends on the statement yuo wish to make.
If you want to test the power factor of an LED then that is what you test for.
If you want to test the power factor of an PSU then that is what you test for.
otherwise the test is pretty meaningless.

All we care about is the power factor of the whole unit. You don't have LEDs on their own.

I do in fact most products have LEDs that aren;t directly connected to mains voltages.
Think or all the LEDS in a TV screen 1000s of them, and in phones.
How about car headlights ?

But what does power factor mean in those circumstances?

Little to the user, but the designer would be interested.

Does it even make sense? Can a DC device even have a power factor?


Yes it can.


What does it mean? I can understand lagging or leading current in AC, but how can that happen in DC?


I't doesn't and that is why it has a power factor of 1 (ONE)

The phase differance between the current & voltage is zero degs, the cosine of zero is one.
In AC the power factor can be up to ONE but not above ONE.




The only thing that matters is the power factor presented to the mains supply,

which could depend on teh rest of the circuit.

on the other side of the LED power circuitry.

whatever that means, do you know.

I mean what the mains sees.


The mains will see what power is taken by whatever yuo are using as a power supply rather than the actual LED.


Surely the power supply doesn't completely hide its load?


No it doesn't.

If you put an inductive load onto the secondary of a simple transformer, or a resistive load on the same transformer, can't you detect the difference on the primary side?


No idea and I care even less.


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Default Troll-feeding Senile Asshole Alert!

On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 03:52:44 -0800 (PST), whisky-depraved, the notorious,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


No idea and I care even less.


ONLY in your senile "mind", troll-feeding senile idiot! BG


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Default Why do LEDs generate heat?

On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 11:07:14 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Monday, 21 October 2019 23:12:36 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 15 Oct 2019 10:39:18 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Monday, 14 October 2019 19:58:12 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 16:54:28 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 9 October 2019 14:59:22 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:


So what do washing machines use, AC or DC?

Water and some sort of cleaning chemicals dependent on personal choice.

Did you not understand the question?

Yes and my answer made as much sense as the question.


The question only had four possible answers - "AC", "DC", "both", or "neither".


I don't know of any washing machine that plugs into a DC supply.


The motor silly.

They may exist I don;t know and care about as much.
Older washing machines were usually run by women turning handles and rubbing clothes on rocks or wash boards.


Were they naked?

I know all about current flow, holes in semiconductors etc. But that's irrelevant. I asked if the flow was one way or both.


Work it out yourself.


Not possible without dismantling the machine.

Any idea where I can find out what a typical home's power factor is nowadays?

I thought you claimed you could measure it.

But how do I know I have a typical home?

How does anyone know.


My point exactly. For typical we need data on many homes.


So go find it.


Google failed me.

An average is better - some people might have lots of motors and others lots of electronics. For an accurate result it would need to be measured across many houses.

and cultures.


that would be even better, but not necessary.


It would be necessary for a meaningful result.


No, only for a very meaningful result.
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Default Why do LEDs generate heat?

On Sunday, 10 November 2019 20:53:12 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 11:07:14 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Monday, 21 October 2019 23:12:36 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 15 Oct 2019 10:39:18 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Monday, 14 October 2019 19:58:12 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 16:54:28 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 9 October 2019 14:59:22 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:


So what do washing machines use, AC or DC?

Water and some sort of cleaning chemicals dependent on personal choice.

Did you not understand the question?

Yes and my answer made as much sense as the question.

The question only had four possible answers - "AC", "DC", "both", or "neither".


I don't know of any washing machine that plugs into a DC supply.


The motor silly.


Every washing machine that I have seen that plugs in has a 3 pin plug on it designed to work from AC.


They may exist I don;t know and care about as much.
Older washing machines were usually run by women turning handles and rubbing clothes on rocks or wash boards.


Were they naked?


No. Is that one of your fantasies... AC/DC ?



I know all about current flow, holes in semiconductors etc. But that's irrelevant. I asked if the flow was one way or both.


It's both in AC, it's not in DC



Work it out yourself.


Not possible without dismantling the machine.


can't you look at the label or instructions.
Something like this applience needs to be connected to....
There's usually some clue somewhere.
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On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 03:03:11 -0800 (PST), whisky-depraved, the notorious,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


Were they naked?


No. Is that one of your fantasies... AC/DC ?


Is that why you KEEP sucking the ****** off, time and again,
whisky-depraved?
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Default Why do LEDs generate heat?

On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 20:28:13 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.0awg1ojnwdg98l@glass...
On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 10:58:58 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Monday, 21 October 2019 21:02:48 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2019 13:01:29 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Friday, 11 October 2019 20:08:35 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 14:04:03 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Wednesday, 9 October 2019 01:08:01 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
On Mon, 07 Oct 2019 12:59:03 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Friday, 4 October 2019 16:34:01 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
On Fri, 04 Oct 2019 16:28:06 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:


I just tested one of mine with a meter, and it gave a power
factor of 1.00, at 256V, 9.8W.


I doubt that it's just the LED, you shouldn't include the PSU
in such calculations especailly if running off mains AC,
because you're including the LED+PSU so not really gettign
any info about the actual LED.

Why should I not include the whole unit? Surely that's all
that matters.

That depends on the statement yuo wish to make.
If you want to test the power factor of an LED then that is what
you test for.
If you want to test the power factor of an PSU then that is what
you test for.
otherwise the test is pretty meaningless.

All we care about is the power factor of the whole unit. You
don't have LEDs on their own.

I do in fact most products have LEDs that aren;t directly connected
to mains voltages.
Think or all the LEDS in a TV screen 1000s of them, and in phones.
How about car headlights ?

But what does power factor mean in those circumstances?

Little to the user, but the designer would be interested.

Does it even make sense? Can a DC device even have a power factor?

Yes it can.


What does it mean? I can understand lagging or leading current in AC, but
how can that happen in DC?

The only thing that matters is the power factor presented to the
mains supply,

which could depend on teh rest of the circuit.

on the other side of the LED power circuitry.

whatever that means, do you know.

I mean what the mains sees.

The mains will see what power is taken by whatever yuo are using as a
power supply rather than the actual LED.


Surely the power supply doesn't completely hide its load?


Yes it can.

If you put an inductive load onto the secondary of a simple transformer,
or a resistive

load on the same transformer, can't you detect the difference on the
primary side?

Yes, but that's not the only sort of power supply possible.

A perfect power supply that is completely power factor corrected
and which produced DC which is inverted to say drive an inductive
load like a motor will completely hide its load.


I guess that makes sense. Sort of. I'm sure some detectable fluctuations in power usage would get back through to the supply, not enough to call it a bad power factor, but enough so you could detect what load is running from the power supply.
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Default Why do LEDs generate heat?



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.0a5t8zqewdg98l@glass...
On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 20:28:13 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.0awg1ojnwdg98l@glass...
On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 10:58:58 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Monday, 21 October 2019 21:02:48 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2019 13:01:29 +0100, whisky-dave

wrote:

On Friday, 11 October 2019 20:08:35 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 14:04:03 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Wednesday, 9 October 2019 01:08:01 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
On Mon, 07 Oct 2019 12:59:03 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Friday, 4 October 2019 16:34:01 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
On Fri, 04 Oct 2019 16:28:06 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:


I just tested one of mine with a meter, and it gave a
power
factor of 1.00, at 256V, 9.8W.


I doubt that it's just the LED, you shouldn't include the
PSU
in such calculations especailly if running off mains AC,
because you're including the LED+PSU so not really gettign
any info about the actual LED.

Why should I not include the whole unit? Surely that's all
that matters.

That depends on the statement yuo wish to make.
If you want to test the power factor of an LED then that is
what
you test for.
If you want to test the power factor of an PSU then that is
what
you test for.
otherwise the test is pretty meaningless.

All we care about is the power factor of the whole unit. You
don't have LEDs on their own.

I do in fact most products have LEDs that aren;t directly
connected
to mains voltages.
Think or all the LEDS in a TV screen 1000s of them, and in
phones.
How about car headlights ?

But what does power factor mean in those circumstances?

Little to the user, but the designer would be interested.

Does it even make sense? Can a DC device even have a power factor?

Yes it can.

What does it mean? I can understand lagging or leading current in AC,
but
how can that happen in DC?

The only thing that matters is the power factor presented to the
mains supply,

which could depend on teh rest of the circuit.

on the other side of the LED power circuitry.

whatever that means, do you know.

I mean what the mains sees.

The mains will see what power is taken by whatever yuo are using as a
power supply rather than the actual LED.

Surely the power supply doesn't completely hide its load?


Yes it can.

If you put an inductive load onto the secondary of a simple transformer,
or a resistive

load on the same transformer, can't you detect the difference on the
primary side?

Yes, but that's not the only sort of power supply possible.

A perfect power supply that is completely power factor corrected
and which produced DC which is inverted to say drive an inductive
load like a motor will completely hide its load.


I guess that makes sense. Sort of.


Not just sort of, completely.

I'm sure some detectable fluctuations in power usage would get back
through to the supply,


But not the POWER FACTOR.

not enough to call it a bad power factor, but enough so you could detect
what load is running from the power supply.


Not when the load doesn't vary.



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On Wed, 13 Nov 2019 09:25:22 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH another 122 !!! lines of the two clinically insane idiots' endless
bull****

--
Typical retarded "conversation" between the Scottish ****** and the senile
Ozzietard:

Birdbrain: "Horse **** doesn't stink."

Senile Rodent: "It does if you roll in it."

Birdbrain: "I've never worked out why, I assumed it was maybe meateaters
that made stinky ****, but then why does vegetarian human **** stink? Is it
just the fact that we're capable of digesting meat?"

Senile Rodent: "Nope, some cow **** stinks too."

Message-ID:
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Default Why do LEDs generate heat?

On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 22:25:22 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.0a5t8zqewdg98l@glass...
On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 20:28:13 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.0awg1ojnwdg98l@glass...
On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 10:58:58 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Monday, 21 October 2019 21:02:48 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2019 13:01:29 +0100, whisky-dave

wrote:

On Friday, 11 October 2019 20:08:35 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 14:04:03 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Wednesday, 9 October 2019 01:08:01 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
On Mon, 07 Oct 2019 12:59:03 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Friday, 4 October 2019 16:34:01 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey
wrote:
On Fri, 04 Oct 2019 16:28:06 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:


I just tested one of mine with a meter, and it gave a
power
factor of 1.00, at 256V, 9.8W.


I doubt that it's just the LED, you shouldn't include the
PSU
in such calculations especailly if running off mains AC,
because you're including the LED+PSU so not really gettign
any info about the actual LED.

Why should I not include the whole unit? Surely that's all
that matters.

That depends on the statement yuo wish to make.
If you want to test the power factor of an LED then that is
what
you test for.
If you want to test the power factor of an PSU then that is
what
you test for.
otherwise the test is pretty meaningless.

All we care about is the power factor of the whole unit. You
don't have LEDs on their own.

I do in fact most products have LEDs that aren;t directly
connected
to mains voltages.
Think or all the LEDS in a TV screen 1000s of them, and in
phones.
How about car headlights ?

But what does power factor mean in those circumstances?

Little to the user, but the designer would be interested.

Does it even make sense? Can a DC device even have a power factor?

Yes it can.

What does it mean? I can understand lagging or leading current in AC,
but
how can that happen in DC?

The only thing that matters is the power factor presented to the
mains supply,

which could depend on teh rest of the circuit.

on the other side of the LED power circuitry.

whatever that means, do you know.

I mean what the mains sees.

The mains will see what power is taken by whatever yuo are using as a
power supply rather than the actual LED.

Surely the power supply doesn't completely hide its load?

Yes it can.

If you put an inductive load onto the secondary of a simple transformer,
or a resistive
load on the same transformer, can't you detect the difference on the
primary side?

Yes, but that's not the only sort of power supply possible.

A perfect power supply that is completely power factor corrected
and which produced DC which is inverted to say drive an inductive
load like a motor will completely hide its load.


I guess that makes sense. Sort of.


Not just sort of, completely.

I'm sure some detectable fluctuations in power usage would get back
through to the supply,


But not the POWER FACTOR.

not enough to call it a bad power factor, but enough so you could detect
what load is running from the power supply.


Not when the load doesn't vary.


Oh alright, you're completely correct.
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On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 11:03:11 -0000, whisky-dave wrote:

On Sunday, 10 November 2019 20:53:12 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 11:07:14 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Monday, 21 October 2019 23:12:36 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 15 Oct 2019 10:39:18 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Monday, 14 October 2019 19:58:12 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 16:54:28 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 9 October 2019 14:59:22 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:


So what do washing machines use, AC or DC?

Water and some sort of cleaning chemicals dependent on personal choice.

Did you not understand the question?

Yes and my answer made as much sense as the question.

The question only had four possible answers - "AC", "DC", "both", or "neither".

I don't know of any washing machine that plugs into a DC supply.


The motor silly.


Every washing machine that I have seen that plugs in has a 3 pin plug on it designed to work from AC.


The motor usually does not have a plug on it.

They may exist I don;t know and care about as much.
Older washing machines were usually run by women turning handles and rubbing clothes on rocks or wash boards.


Were they naked?


No.


No point in having two sets of clothes, just take them off, wash them, then put them back on to dry. Bloody prudes.

Is that one of your fantasies... AC/DC ?


TENS machines are AC.

I know all about current flow, holes in semiconductors etc. But that's irrelevant. I asked if the flow was one way or both.


It's both in AC, it's not in DC


And which is it in the motor?
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"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.0a72lprhwdg98l@glass...
On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 11:03:11 -0000, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Sunday, 10 November 2019 20:53:12 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 11:07:14 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Monday, 21 October 2019 23:12:36 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 15 Oct 2019 10:39:18 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Monday, 14 October 2019 19:58:12 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 16:54:28 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Wednesday, 9 October 2019 14:59:22 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey
wrote:


So what do washing machines use, AC or DC?

Water and some sort of cleaning chemicals dependent on personal
choice.

Did you not understand the question?

Yes and my answer made as much sense as the question.

The question only had four possible answers - "AC", "DC", "both", or
"neither".

I don't know of any washing machine that plugs into a DC supply.

The motor silly.


Every washing machine that I have seen that plugs in has a 3 pin plug on
it designed to work from AC.


The motor usually does not have a plug on it.

They may exist I don;t know and care about as much.
Older washing machines were usually run by women turning handles and
rubbing clothes on rocks or wash boards.

Were they naked?


No.


No point in having two sets of clothes,


I've got a hell of a lot more than just two sets.

just take them off, wash them,


No thanks, too cold in winter.

then put them back on to dry.


Much more convenient to hang them on
something to dry, specially in winter.

Bloody prudes.


Stupid streaker.

Is that one of your fantasies... AC/DC ?


TENS machines are AC.

I know all about current flow, holes in semiconductors etc. But
that's irrelevant. I asked if the flow was one way or both.


It's both in AC, it's not in DC


And which is it in the motor?


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On Thu, 14 Nov 2019 15:05:25 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH of the two clinically insane prize idiots' clinically insane idiotic
blather

--
Another typical retarded "conversation" between the two resident idiots:

Birdbrain: "But imagine how cool it was to own slaves."

Senile Rodent: "Yeah, right. Feed them, clothe them, and fix them when
they're broken.
After all, you paid good money for them. Then you've got to keep an eye
on them all the time."

Birdbrain: "Better than having to give them wages on top of that."

Senile Rodent: "Specially when they make more slaves for you
and produce their own food and clothes."

MID:


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Default Why do LEDs generate heat?

On Thursday, 14 November 2019 02:02:07 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 11:03:11 -0000, whisky-dave wrote:

On Sunday, 10 November 2019 20:53:12 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 11:07:14 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Monday, 21 October 2019 23:12:36 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 15 Oct 2019 10:39:18 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Monday, 14 October 2019 19:58:12 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 16:54:28 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 9 October 2019 14:59:22 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:


So what do washing machines use, AC or DC?

Water and some sort of cleaning chemicals dependent on personal choice.

Did you not understand the question?

Yes and my answer made as much sense as the question.

The question only had four possible answers - "AC", "DC", "both", or "neither".

I don't know of any washing machine that plugs into a DC supply.

The motor silly.


Every washing machine that I have seen that plugs in has a 3 pin plug on it designed to work from AC.


The motor usually does not have a plug on it.


How do you know, I'd assume most are conencted to a mother board or PCB of some sort using a connector that could be described as a plug that fits into a socket.



They may exist I don;t know and care about as much.
Older washing machines were usually run by women turning handles and rubbing clothes on rocks or wash boards.

Were they naked?


No.


No point in having two sets of clothes, just take them off, wash them, then put them back on to dry. Bloody prudes.


Is that what you were doing waiting in the cold stream for your clothes to dry ?
Do you only have one set of clothes too.



Is that one of your fantasies... AC/DC ?


TENS machines are AC.


https://tensmachineuk.com/tens-vagin... aAhDNEALw_wcB

Well good luck with it hope you enjoy it.


I know all about current flow, holes in semiconductors etc. But that's irrelevant. I asked if the flow was one way or both.


It's both in AC, it's not in DC


And which is it in the motor?


That would depend on the type of motor.


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On Thu, 14 Nov 2019 05:00:17 -0800 (PST), whisky-depraved, the notorious,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

FLUSH the two prize idiots' useless endless idiotic blather


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Default Why do LEDs generate heat?

On Thu, 14 Nov 2019 13:00:17 -0000, whisky-dave wrote:

On Thursday, 14 November 2019 02:02:07 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 11:03:11 -0000, whisky-dave wrote:

On Sunday, 10 November 2019 20:53:12 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 11:07:14 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Monday, 21 October 2019 23:12:36 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 15 Oct 2019 10:39:18 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Monday, 14 October 2019 19:58:12 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 16:54:28 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 9 October 2019 14:59:22 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:


So what do washing machines use, AC or DC?

Water and some sort of cleaning chemicals dependent on personal choice.

Did you not understand the question?

Yes and my answer made as much sense as the question.

The question only had four possible answers - "AC", "DC", "both", or "neither".

I don't know of any washing machine that plugs into a DC supply.

The motor silly.

Every washing machine that I have seen that plugs in has a 3 pin plug on it designed to work from AC.


The motor usually does not have a plug on it.


How do you know, I'd assume most are conencted to a mother board or PCB of some sort using a connector that could be described as a plug that fits into a socket.


Not a "3 pin plug on it designed to work from AC".

They may exist I don;t know and care about as much.
Older washing machines were usually run by women turning handles and rubbing clothes on rocks or wash boards.

Were they naked?

No.


No point in having two sets of clothes, just take them off, wash them, then put them back on to dry. Bloody prudes.


Is that what you were doing waiting in the cold stream for your clothes to dry ?
Do you only have one set of clothes too.


I didn't take any with me, well only shorts.

Is that one of your fantasies... AC/DC ?


TENS machines are AC.


https://tensmachineuk.com/tens-vagin... aAhDNEALw_wcB

Well good luck with it hope you enjoy it.


How odd that was the first thing that came to your mind. They're actually used for many things - pain relief for example. I know a woman who has one attached to her back for most of the day. It prevents the muscles cramping up.

Of course you can also torture folk with them.

I know all about current flow, holes in semiconductors etc. But that's irrelevant. I asked if the flow was one way or both.

It's both in AC, it's not in DC


And which is it in the motor?


That would depend on the type of motor.


Evasion again.
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On Thu, 14 Nov 2019 04:05:25 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.0a72lprhwdg98l@glass...
On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 11:03:11 -0000, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Sunday, 10 November 2019 20:53:12 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 11:07:14 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Monday, 21 October 2019 23:12:36 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 15 Oct 2019 10:39:18 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Monday, 14 October 2019 19:58:12 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 16:54:28 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Wednesday, 9 October 2019 14:59:22 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey
wrote:


So what do washing machines use, AC or DC?

Water and some sort of cleaning chemicals dependent on personal
choice.

Did you not understand the question?

Yes and my answer made as much sense as the question.

The question only had four possible answers - "AC", "DC", "both", or
"neither".

I don't know of any washing machine that plugs into a DC supply.

The motor silly.

Every washing machine that I have seen that plugs in has a 3 pin plug on
it designed to work from AC.


The motor usually does not have a plug on it.

They may exist I don;t know and care about as much.
Older washing machines were usually run by women turning handles and
rubbing clothes on rocks or wash boards.

Were they naked?

No.


No point in having two sets of clothes,


I've got a hell of a lot more than just two sets.


Are you female?

just take them off, wash them,


No thanks, too cold in winter.


Are you female?

then put them back on to dry.


Much more convenient to hang them on
something to dry, specially in winter.


No, that's an extra step.

Bloody prudes.


Stupid streaker.


It's the way we were born. Clothes are unnatural.
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On Thursday, 14 November 2019 22:00:06 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 14 Nov 2019 13:00:17 -0000, whisky-dave wrote:

On Thursday, 14 November 2019 02:02:07 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 11:03:11 -0000, whisky-dave wrote:

On Sunday, 10 November 2019 20:53:12 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 11:07:14 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Monday, 21 October 2019 23:12:36 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 15 Oct 2019 10:39:18 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Monday, 14 October 2019 19:58:12 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 16:54:28 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 9 October 2019 14:59:22 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:


So what do washing machines use, AC or DC?

Water and some sort of cleaning chemicals dependent on personal choice.

Did you not understand the question?

Yes and my answer made as much sense as the question.

The question only had four possible answers - "AC", "DC", "both", or "neither".

I don't know of any washing machine that plugs into a DC supply.

The motor silly.

Every washing machine that I have seen that plugs in has a 3 pin plug on it designed to work from AC.

The motor usually does not have a plug on it.


How do you know, I'd assume most are conencted to a mother board or PCB of some sort using a connector that could be described as a plug that fits into a socket.


Not a "3 pin plug on it designed to work from AC".


But that still won't tell you if a motor is AC or DC.
Most people buy washing machines that plug into the AC mains.




Is that one of your fantasies... AC/DC ?

TENS machines are AC.


https://tensmachineuk.com/tens-vagin... aAhDNEALw_wcB

Well good luck with it hope you enjoy it.


How odd that was the first thing that came to your mind.


It was one of the first things that came up.

They're actually used for many things - pain relief for example.


Do you have a pain in yuor vagina ?

I know a woman who has one attached to her back for most of the day. It prevents the muscles cramping up.


IS it AC or DC ?


Of course you can also torture folk with them.


Torture pleasure, there;s a thin line to cross.
I guess you've never been to the torture garden.


I know all about current flow, holes in semiconductors etc. But that's irrelevant. I asked if the flow was one way or both.

It's both in AC, it's not in DC

And which is it in the motor?


That would depend on the type of motor.


Evasion again.


yuo can buy both AC & DC motors.




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On Thursday, 14 November 2019 22:17:27 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 14 Nov 2019 04:05:25 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:




Bloody prudes.


Stupid streaker.


It's the way we were born. Clothes are unnatural.


Only on animals generally speaking, us humans prefer to use energy to power our brains rather than keep us warm, our[1] inteligence has evolved enough for us to be able to work out how to keep warm without wasting energy.


[1] some seem to have missed this in their evolution advancement
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In message ,
whisky-dave writes




yuo can buy both AC & DC motors.

Does your PC come with Auto-Contradict mode already installed, or do you
have to download it and install it yourself?
--
Ian
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On Friday, 15 November 2019 13:21:33 UTC, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message ,
whisky-dave writes




yuo can buy both AC & DC motors.

Does your PC come with Auto-Contradict mode already installed, or do you
have to download it and install it yourself?
--
Ian


spit I use a Mac.
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On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 04:26:03 -0800 (PST), whisky-depraved, the notorious,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


[1] some seem to have missed this in their evolution advancement


You miss a LOT of things, troll-feeding senile asshole!
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On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 04:14:32 -0800 (PST), whisky-depraved, the notorious,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

FLUSH the two prize idiots' endless idiotic blather unread




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On Friday, 15 November 2019 16:28:21 UTC, Peeler wrote:
On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 04:26:03 -0800 (PST), whisky-depraved, the notorious,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


[1] some seem to have missed this in their evolution advancement


You miss a LOT of things, troll-feeding senile asshole!


I'm certainly missing any intellectual or useful comments from you , I think we all are.
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On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 08:44:22 -0800 (PST), whisky-depraved, the notorious,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


You miss a LOT of things, troll-feeding senile asshole!


I'm certainly missing any intellectual or useful comments from you , I think we all are.


LOL!!! Is this troll-feeding, endlessly blithering idiot for real? One can
encounter THAT much stupidity ONLY on Usenet!
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Default Why do LEDs generate heat?

On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 12:26:03 -0000, whisky-dave wrote:

On Thursday, 14 November 2019 22:17:27 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 14 Nov 2019 04:05:25 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:

Bloody prudes.

Stupid streaker.


It's the way we were born. Clothes are unnatural.


Only on animals generally speaking, us humans prefer to use energy to power our brains rather than keep us warm, our[1] inteligence has evolved enough for us to be able to work out how to keep warm without wasting energy.

[1] some seem to have missed this in their evolution advancement


Wasting energy? You mean like heating your house?
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On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 12:14:32 -0000, whisky-dave wrote:

On Thursday, 14 November 2019 22:00:06 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 14 Nov 2019 13:00:17 -0000, whisky-dave wrote:

On Thursday, 14 November 2019 02:02:07 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 11:03:11 -0000, whisky-dave wrote:

On Sunday, 10 November 2019 20:53:12 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 11:07:14 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Monday, 21 October 2019 23:12:36 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 15 Oct 2019 10:39:18 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Monday, 14 October 2019 19:58:12 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 16:54:28 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 9 October 2019 14:59:22 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:


So what do washing machines use, AC or DC?

Water and some sort of cleaning chemicals dependent on personal choice.

Did you not understand the question?

Yes and my answer made as much sense as the question.

The question only had four possible answers - "AC", "DC", "both", or "neither".

I don't know of any washing machine that plugs into a DC supply.

The motor silly.

Every washing machine that I have seen that plugs in has a 3 pin plug on it designed to work from AC.

The motor usually does not have a plug on it.

How do you know, I'd assume most are conencted to a mother board or PCB of some sort using a connector that could be described as a plug that fits into a socket.


Not a "3 pin plug on it designed to work from AC".


But that still won't tell you if a motor is AC or DC.
Most people buy washing machines that plug into the AC mains.


I was considering the operation of the motor, not the whole washing machine.

Is that one of your fantasies... AC/DC ?

TENS machines are AC.

https://tensmachineuk.com/tens-vagin... aAhDNEALw_wcB

Well good luck with it hope you enjoy it.


How odd that was the first thing that came to your mind.


It was one of the first things that came up.


You dirty old man.

They're actually used for many things - pain relief for example.


Do you have a pain in yuor vagina ?


they can be connected elsewhere.

I know a woman who has one attached to her back for most of the day. It prevents the muscles cramping up.


IS it AC or DC ?


AC. Pulses of 1 to 100 Hz. Apparently the cheap **** ones are DC (as in the pulses always flow the current one way), these can damage muscles.

Of course you can also torture folk with them.


Torture pleasure, there;s a thin line to cross.


Huh?

I guess you've never been to the torture garden.


The what?

I know all about current flow, holes in semiconductors etc. But that's irrelevant. I asked if the flow was one way or both.

It's both in AC, it's not in DC

And which is it in the motor?

That would depend on the type of motor.


Evasion again.


yuo can buy both AC & DC motors.


Presumably it's more common for one of them to be in a washing machine.
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On Fri, 08 Nov 2019 11:52:44 -0000, whisky-dave wrote:

On Thursday, 7 November 2019 19:42:55 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 10:58:58 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Monday, 21 October 2019 21:02:48 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2019 13:01:29 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Friday, 11 October 2019 20:08:35 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 14:04:03 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 9 October 2019 01:08:01 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 07 Oct 2019 12:59:03 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Friday, 4 October 2019 16:34:01 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 04 Oct 2019 16:28:06 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:


I just tested one of mine with a meter, and it gave a power factor of 1.00, at 256V, 9.8W.


I doubt that it's just the LED, you shouldn't include the PSU in such calculations especailly if running off mains AC, because you're including the LED+PSU so not really gettign any info about the actual LED.

Why should I not include the whole unit? Surely that's all that matters.

That depends on the statement yuo wish to make.
If you want to test the power factor of an LED then that is what you test for.
If you want to test the power factor of an PSU then that is what you test for.
otherwise the test is pretty meaningless.

All we care about is the power factor of the whole unit. You don't have LEDs on their own.

I do in fact most products have LEDs that aren;t directly connected to mains voltages.
Think or all the LEDS in a TV screen 1000s of them, and in phones.
How about car headlights ?

But what does power factor mean in those circumstances?

Little to the user, but the designer would be interested.

Does it even make sense? Can a DC device even have a power factor?

Yes it can.


What does it mean? I can understand lagging or leading current in AC, but how can that happen in DC?


I't doesn't and that is why it has a power factor of 1 (ONE)

The phase differance between the current & voltage is zero degs, the cosine of zero is one.
In AC the power factor can be up to ONE but not above ONE.


So DC doesn't have a power factor. Just up there you said it could.

The only thing that matters is the power factor presented to the mains supply,

which could depend on teh rest of the circuit.

on the other side of the LED power circuitry.

whatever that means, do you know.

I mean what the mains sees.

The mains will see what power is taken by whatever yuo are using as a power supply rather than the actual LED.


Surely the power supply doesn't completely hide its load?


No it doesn't.

If you put an inductive load onto the secondary of a simple transformer, or a resistive load on the same transformer, can't you detect the difference on the primary side?


No idea and I care even less.


Then start doing so.


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On Friday, 15 November 2019 18:36:48 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 12:26:03 -0000, whisky-dave wrote:

On Thursday, 14 November 2019 22:17:27 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 14 Nov 2019 04:05:25 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:

Bloody prudes.

Stupid streaker.

It's the way we were born. Clothes are unnatural.


Only on animals generally speaking, us humans prefer to use energy to power our brains rather than keep us warm, our[1] inteligence has evolved enough for us to be able to work out how to keep warm without wasting energy.

[1] some seem to have missed this in their evolution advancement


Wasting energy? You mean like heating your house?


Why is that wasting energy ?
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On Friday, 15 November 2019 21:34:56 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 12:14:32 -0000, whisky-dave wrote:

On Thursday, 14 November 2019 22:00:06 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 14 Nov 2019 13:00:17 -0000, whisky-dave wrote:

On Thursday, 14 November 2019 02:02:07 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 11:03:11 -0000, whisky-dave wrote:

On Sunday, 10 November 2019 20:53:12 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 11:07:14 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Monday, 21 October 2019 23:12:36 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 15 Oct 2019 10:39:18 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Monday, 14 October 2019 19:58:12 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 16:54:28 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 9 October 2019 14:59:22 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:


So what do washing machines use, AC or DC?

Water and some sort of cleaning chemicals dependent on personal choice.

Did you not understand the question?

Yes and my answer made as much sense as the question.

The question only had four possible answers - "AC", "DC", "both", or "neither".

I don't know of any washing machine that plugs into a DC supply.

The motor silly.

Every washing machine that I have seen that plugs in has a 3 pin plug on it designed to work from AC.

The motor usually does not have a plug on it.

How do you know, I'd assume most are conencted to a mother board or PCB of some sort using a connector that could be described as a plug that fits into a socket.

Not a "3 pin plug on it designed to work from AC".


But that still won't tell you if a motor is AC or DC.
Most people buy washing machines that plug into the AC mains.


I was considering the operation of the motor, not the whole washing machine.


Why.

When most people do the washing they have to use the whole washing machine not just the motor in it.



Is that one of your fantasies... AC/DC ?

TENS machines are AC.

https://tensmachineuk.com/tens-vagin... aAhDNEALw_wcB

Well good luck with it hope you enjoy it.

How odd that was the first thing that came to your mind.


It was one of the first things that came up.


You dirty old man.


I'd never heard of TENS before as a company or supplier.


They're actually used for many things - pain relief for example.


Do you have a pain in yuor vagina ?


they can be connected elsewhere.


I've never used that company or it's products, at last there's something you know more about, I['m happy for you.




I know a woman who has one attached to her back for most of the day. It prevents the muscles cramping up.


IS it AC or DC ?


AC. Pulses of 1 to 100 Hz. Apparently the cheap **** ones are DC (as in the pulses always flow the current one way), these can damage muscles.


'Apparently' how do pulses flow and in which direction ?
Seems like a ripoff product sold to the clueless.



Of course you can also torture folk with them.


Torture pleasure, there's a thin line to cross.


Huh?


Yes, Exactly.


I guess you've never been to the torture garden.


The what?


Yes, Exactly.



I know all about current flow, holes in semiconductors etc. But that's irrelevant. I asked if the flow was one way or both.

It's both in AC, it's not in DC

And which is it in the motor?

That would depend on the type of motor.

Evasion again.


yuo can buy both AC & DC motors.


Presumably it's more common for one of them to be in a washing machine.


no **** sherlock.



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On Saturday, 16 November 2019 22:30:44 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 08 Nov 2019 11:52:44 -0000, whisky-dave wrote:

On Thursday, 7 November 2019 19:42:55 UTC, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 10:58:58 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Monday, 21 October 2019 21:02:48 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2019 13:01:29 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Friday, 11 October 2019 20:08:35 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 14:04:03 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 9 October 2019 01:08:01 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 07 Oct 2019 12:59:03 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Friday, 4 October 2019 16:34:01 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 04 Oct 2019 16:28:06 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:


I just tested one of mine with a meter, and it gave a power factor of 1.00, at 256V, 9.8W.


I doubt that it's just the LED, you shouldn't include the PSU in such calculations especailly if running off mains AC, because you're including the LED+PSU so not really gettign any info about the actual LED.

Why should I not include the whole unit? Surely that's all that matters.

That depends on the statement yuo wish to make.
If you want to test the power factor of an LED then that is what you test for.
If you want to test the power factor of an PSU then that is what you test for.
otherwise the test is pretty meaningless.

All we care about is the power factor of the whole unit. You don't have LEDs on their own.

I do in fact most products have LEDs that aren;t directly connected to mains voltages.
Think or all the LEDS in a TV screen 1000s of them, and in phones.
How about car headlights ?

But what does power factor mean in those circumstances?

Little to the user, but the designer would be interested.

Does it even make sense? Can a DC device even have a power factor?

Yes it can.

What does it mean? I can understand lagging or leading current in AC, but how can that happen in DC?


I't doesn't and that is why it has a power factor of 1 (ONE)

The phase differance between the current & voltage is zero degs, the cosine of zero is one.
In AC the power factor can be up to ONE but not above ONE.


So DC doesn't have a power factor.


At last.

Just up there you said it could.


No.

It's like the pint being half full or half empty that is valid.
But to say the pint is 100% full and there;s for 0% emprty just doesn't make sense and the phrase wouldn't be used.

I've done a similar thing with studetmns in order to teach them.
In one lab they learn how and why a fuse blows.
If they come to me with a blown fuse and ask me for another I give them a blown fuse.
That teaches them the differnce between a blown fuse and a working one.

If I were working in a pub and someone places an empty glass down and says same again, I'd give them an empty pint glass then they'd get the same again as they asked for.


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On Mon, 18 Nov 2019 03:36:46 -0800 (PST), whisky-depraved, the notorious,
troll-feeding, senile asshole, blabbered again:


Wasting energy? You mean like heating your house?


Why is that wasting energy ?


Why are BOTH of you driveling prize idiots? BG
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On Mon, 18 Nov 2019 03:46:36 -0800 (PST), whisky-depraved, the notorious,
troll-feeding, senile asshole, blabbered again:


no **** sherlock.


Sure, it's HIS **** in YOUR mouth, senile idiot! tsk
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