We report, you decide.

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles...duce-heat.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therma...igh-power_LEDs

Spalted Walt wrote:
We report, you decide.

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles...duce-heat.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therma...igh-power_LEDs



Ok, So it seems that LEDS waste about 70% of the energy that they consume
and that energy becomes heat.

Unless they are IR LEDs

In so much that the typical LED, and all of the ones I have purchased, use
10% or much less energy than a comparable incandescent light I have not
witnessed any heat at all. My sampling has included 3-4 ribbons of LEDs,
multiple strings of LED Christmas lights all plugged into each other, and a
couple of out door 60 watt incandescent coach lights replaced with
equivalency light out put LED bulbs. The biggest consumers of electricity
of this sampling is 7 watts and even those might only be producing about
1/3 the amount of heat of a typical 7 watt incandescent light bulb.


Show me a single LED that consumed 180 watts by itself and I think it, the
LED itself and not the transformer or other involved electronics, will get
hot enough to equal a common 60 watt incandescent light bulb.

On Mon, 9 May 2016 06:37:55 -0500, Leon wrote:


Spalted Walt wrote:
We report, you decide.

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles...duce-heat.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therma...igh-power_LEDs



Ok, So it seems that LEDS waste about 70% of the energy that they consume
and that energy becomes heat.

Unless they are IR LEDs

In so much that the typical LED, and all of the ones I have purchased, use
10% or much less energy than a comparable incandescent light I have not
witnessed any heat at all. My sampling has included 3-4 ribbons of LEDs,
multiple strings of LED Christmas lights all plugged into each other, and a
couple of out door 60 watt incandescent coach lights replaced with
equivalency light out put LED bulbs. The biggest consumers of electricity
of this sampling is 7 watts and even those might only be producing about
1/3 the amount of heat of a typical 7 watt incandescent light bulb.


Show me a single LED that consumed 180 watts by itself and I think it, the
LED itself and not the transformer or other involved electronics, will get
hot enough to equal a common 60 watt incandescent light bulb.

You will need more sensitve equipment than your fingers to actually
measure the heat produced. If you wanted to argue about it someone
could, but not me.

Leon wrote:

Show me a single LED that consumed 180 watts by itself and I think it, the
LED itself and not the transformer or other involved electronics, will get
hot enough to equal a common 60 watt incandescent light bulb.

100 watt LED gets VERY hot, very quickly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIBIqaeiE2M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxnP-6EZ3ZQ

On 5/9/2016 6:50 AM, Markem wrote:
On Mon, 9 May 2016 06:37:55 -0500, Leon wrote:


Spalted Walt wrote:
We report, you decide.

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles...duce-heat.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therma...igh-power_LEDs



Ok, So it seems that LEDS waste about 70% of the energy that they consume
and that energy becomes heat.

Unless they are IR LEDs

In so much that the typical LED, and all of the ones I have purchased, use
10% or much less energy than a comparable incandescent light I have not
witnessed any heat at all. My sampling has included 3-4 ribbons of LEDs,
multiple strings of LED Christmas lights all plugged into each other, and a
couple of out door 60 watt incandescent coach lights replaced with
equivalency light out put LED bulbs. The biggest consumers of electricity
of this sampling is 7 watts and even those might only be producing about
1/3 the amount of heat of a typical 7 watt incandescent light bulb.


Show me a single LED that consumed 180 watts by itself and I think it, the
LED itself and not the transformer or other involved electronics, will get
hot enough to equal a common 60 watt incandescent light bulb.

You will need more sensitve equipment than your fingers to actually
measure the heat produced. If you wanted to argue about it someone
could, but not me.

Well, I just checked an 60 W equivalent LED in the kitchen and it gets
warm around the base. However, when I found a 60 W incandescent it
didn't take but about a minute to get too hot to touch. Checking the
card a replacement in the drawer is on it says that the 60 W equivalent
LED uses 9.5 W. So the answer to the original question, whether LEDs
produce heat, is yes. But they produce much less heat than
incandescents. I don't expect that a small LED would produce enough heat
to be easily detectable by hand.

Bill

On 5/9/2016 6:50 AM, Markem wrote:
On Mon, 9 May 2016 06:37:55 -0500, Leon wrote:


Spalted Walt wrote:
We report, you decide.

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles...duce-heat.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therma...igh-power_LEDs



Ok, So it seems that LEDS waste about 70% of the energy that they consume
and that energy becomes heat.

Unless they are IR LEDs

In so much that the typical LED, and all of the ones I have purchased, use
10% or much less energy than a comparable incandescent light I have not
witnessed any heat at all. My sampling has included 3-4 ribbons of LEDs,
multiple strings of LED Christmas lights all plugged into each other, and a
couple of out door 60 watt incandescent coach lights replaced with
equivalency light out put LED bulbs. The biggest consumers of electricity
of this sampling is 7 watts and even those might only be producing about
1/3 the amount of heat of a typical 7 watt incandescent light bulb.


Show me a single LED that consumed 180 watts by itself and I think it, the
LED itself and not the transformer or other involved electronics, will get
hot enough to equal a common 60 watt incandescent light bulb.

You will need more sensitve equipment than your fingers to actually
measure the heat produced. If you wanted to argue about it someone
could, but not me.



LOL.. which is why I mentioned that If my fingers feel no heat at all
there for the most part the LEDs that I have used produce no appreciable
heat.

I measure heat this way. I feel nothing, I feel a little warmth, I feel
something hot that I don't want to touch.

The 7 watt single bulbs get a little warm where the ballast/transformer
is located near the screw in base but the bulb itself only gets warm
when the sun shines on it. I leave these lights on 24/7 also.

On 5/9/2016 7:43 AM, Spalted Walt wrote:
Leon wrote:

Show me a single LED that consumed 180 watts by itself and I think it, the
LED itself and not the transformer or other involved electronics, will get
hot enough to equal a common 60 watt incandescent light bulb.

100 watt LED gets VERY hot, very quickly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIBIqaeiE2M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxnP-6EZ3ZQ



Well even a blind hog.....LOL

On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 9:42:06 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 5/9/2016 7:43 AM, Spalted Walt wrote:
Leon wrote:

Show me a single LED that consumed 180 watts by itself and I think it, the
LED itself and not the transformer or other involved electronics, will get
hot enough to equal a common 60 watt incandescent light bulb.

100 watt LED gets VERY hot, very quickly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIBIqaeiE2M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxnP-6EZ3ZQ



Well even a blind hog.....LOL

I think a detailed spreadsheet is in order...any volunteers?

On 5/9/2016 7:43 AM, Spalted Walt wrote:
Leon wrote:

Show me a single LED that consumed 180 watts by itself and I think it, the
LED itself and not the transformer or other involved electronics, will get
hot enough to equal a common 60 watt incandescent light bulb.

100 watt LED gets VERY hot, very quickly.

So does a 60 watt incandescent blub. LEDs with equivalent light output
of common home incandescent lights do not.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIBIqaeiE2M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxnP-6EZ3ZQ

On Mon, 9 May 2016 08:37:12 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 5/9/2016 6:50 AM, Markem wrote:
On Mon, 9 May 2016 06:37:55 -0500, Leon wrote:


Spalted Walt wrote:
We report, you decide.

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles...duce-heat.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therma...igh-power_LEDs



Ok, So it seems that LEDS waste about 70% of the energy that they consume
and that energy becomes heat.

Unless they are IR LEDs

In so much that the typical LED, and all of the ones I have purchased, use
10% or much less energy than a comparable incandescent light I have not
witnessed any heat at all. My sampling has included 3-4 ribbons of LEDs,
multiple strings of LED Christmas lights all plugged into each other, and a
couple of out door 60 watt incandescent coach lights replaced with
equivalency light out put LED bulbs. The biggest consumers of electricity
of this sampling is 7 watts and even those might only be producing about
1/3 the amount of heat of a typical 7 watt incandescent light bulb.


Show me a single LED that consumed 180 watts by itself and I think it, the
LED itself and not the transformer or other involved electronics, will get
hot enough to equal a common 60 watt incandescent light bulb.

You will need more sensitve equipment than your fingers to actually
measure the heat produced. If you wanted to argue about it someone
could, but not me.



LOL.. which is why I mentioned that If my fingers feel no heat at all
there for the most part the LEDs that I have used produce no appreciable
heat.

I measure heat this way. I feel nothing, I feel a little warmth, I feel
something hot that I don't want to touch.

The 7 watt single bulbs get a little warm where the ballast/transformer
is located near the screw in base but the bulb itself only gets warm
when the sun shines on it. I leave these lights on 24/7 also.
Well, I can tell you a 60 watt LED array produces enough (radiant)
heat that you can feel it 5 feet away. (LED aircraft landing / taxi
lighting). 10 WATTS PRODUCES ABOUT 30000 CANDELLA AND 1000 LUMENS.

So imagine 60 watts!!!!!!!

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 5/9/2016 7:43 AM, Spalted Walt wrote:
Leon wrote:

Show me a single LED that consumed 180 watts by itself and I think it, the
LED itself and not the transformer or other involved electronics, will get
hot enough to equal a common 60 watt incandescent light bulb.

100 watt LED gets VERY hot, very quickly.

So does a 60 watt incandescent blub. LEDs with equivalent light output
of common home incandescent lights do not.

Not surprising considering an A19 60W equiv LED consumes 8 - 9.5W and produces
no IR.

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 5/9/2016 7:43 AM, Spalted Walt wrote:
Leon wrote:

Show me a single LED that consumed 180 watts by itself and I think it, the
LED itself and not the transformer or other involved electronics, will get
hot enough to equal a common 60 watt incandescent light bulb.

100 watt LED gets VERY hot, very quickly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIBIqaeiE2M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxnP-6EZ3ZQ



Well even a blind hog.....LOL

Another 100W LED 'blind hog' dealing with the heat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaJQ2fo4poU

On 5/9/2016 10:24 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 9 May 2016 08:37:12 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 5/9/2016 6:50 AM, Markem wrote:
On Mon, 9 May 2016 06:37:55 -0500, Leon wrote:


Spalted Walt wrote:
We report, you decide.

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles...duce-heat.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therma...igh-power_LEDs



Ok, So it seems that LEDS waste about 70% of the energy that they consume
and that energy becomes heat.

Unless they are IR LEDs

In so much that the typical LED, and all of the ones I have purchased, use
10% or much less energy than a comparable incandescent light I have not
witnessed any heat at all. My sampling has included 3-4 ribbons of LEDs,
multiple strings of LED Christmas lights all plugged into each other, and a
couple of out door 60 watt incandescent coach lights replaced with
equivalency light out put LED bulbs. The biggest consumers of electricity
of this sampling is 7 watts and even those might only be producing about
1/3 the amount of heat of a typical 7 watt incandescent light bulb.


Show me a single LED that consumed 180 watts by itself and I think it, the
LED itself and not the transformer or other involved electronics, will get
hot enough to equal a common 60 watt incandescent light bulb.

You will need more sensitve equipment than your fingers to actually
measure the heat produced. If you wanted to argue about it someone
could, but not me.



LOL.. which is why I mentioned that If my fingers feel no heat at all
there for the most part the LEDs that I have used produce no appreciable
heat.

I measure heat this way. I feel nothing, I feel a little warmth, I feel
something hot that I don't want to touch.

The 7 watt single bulbs get a little warm where the ballast/transformer
is located near the screw in base but the bulb itself only gets warm
when the sun shines on it. I leave these lights on 24/7 also.
Well, I can tell you a 60 watt LED array produces enough (radiant)
heat that you can feel it 5 feet away. (LED aircraft landing / taxi
lighting). 10 WATTS PRODUCES ABOUT 30000 CANDELLA AND 1000 LUMENS.

So imagine 60 watts!!!!!!!



I have got to imagine voltage plays a large part. My 16' string uses
about 48 watts, 12 volt to light up over 500 3528 LEDs. No heat when
off the real.

On Mon, 9 May 2016 06:37:55 -0500, Leon wrote:


Spalted Walt wrote:
We report, you decide.

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles...duce-heat.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therma...igh-power_LEDs



Ok, So it seems that LEDS waste about 70% of the energy that they consume
and that energy becomes heat.

Unless they are IR LEDs

In so much that the typical LED, and all of the ones I have purchased, use
10% or much less energy than a comparable incandescent light I have not
witnessed any heat at all. My sampling has included 3-4 ribbons of LEDs,
multiple strings of LED Christmas lights all plugged into each other, and a
couple of out door 60 watt incandescent coach lights replaced with
equivalency light out put LED bulbs. The biggest consumers of electricity
of this sampling is 7 watts and even those might only be producing about
1/3 the amount of heat of a typical 7 watt incandescent light bulb.


Show me a single LED that consumed 180 watts by itself and I think it, the
LED itself and not the transformer or other involved electronics, will get
hot enough to equal a common 60 watt incandescent light bulb.


Exploding LED lights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUTUa8Ngt-M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsZWNM1Iuig

When bread boarding LED's I have burnt my fingers more than once on an
over driven LED, the bulbs can take more than the ribbon stuff does.

Just thought I'd throw this into the conversation.

On Mon, 9 May 2016 08:37:12 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 5/9/2016 6:50 AM, Markem wrote:
On Mon, 9 May 2016 06:37:55 -0500, Leon wrote:


Spalted Walt wrote:
We report, you decide.

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles...duce-heat.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therma...igh-power_LEDs



Ok, So it seems that LEDS waste about 70% of the energy that they consume
and that energy becomes heat.

Unless they are IR LEDs

In so much that the typical LED, and all of the ones I have purchased, use
10% or much less energy than a comparable incandescent light I have not
witnessed any heat at all. My sampling has included 3-4 ribbons of LEDs,
multiple strings of LED Christmas lights all plugged into each other, and a
couple of out door 60 watt incandescent coach lights replaced with
equivalency light out put LED bulbs. The biggest consumers of electricity
of this sampling is 7 watts and even those might only be producing about
1/3 the amount of heat of a typical 7 watt incandescent light bulb.


Show me a single LED that consumed 180 watts by itself and I think it, the
LED itself and not the transformer or other involved electronics, will get
hot enough to equal a common 60 watt incandescent light bulb.

You will need more sensitve equipment than your fingers to actually
measure the heat produced. If you wanted to argue about it someone
could, but not me.



LOL.. which is why I mentioned that If my fingers feel no heat at all
there for the most part the LEDs that I have used produce no appreciable
heat.

I measure heat this way. I feel nothing, I feel a little warmth, I feel
something hot that I don't want to touch.

The 7 watt single bulbs get a little warm where the ballast/transformer
is located near the screw in base but the bulb itself only gets warm
when the sun shines on it. I leave these lights on 24/7 also.

The worst LED bulbs I have used were the C9 replacement for night
lights. It melted the plastic fixture, so they went in file 13.

On 5/9/2016 10:32 AM, Spalted Walt wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 5/9/2016 7:43 AM, Spalted Walt wrote:
Leon wrote:

Show me a single LED that consumed 180 watts by itself and I think it, the
LED itself and not the transformer or other involved electronics, will get
hot enough to equal a common 60 watt incandescent light bulb.

100 watt LED gets VERY hot, very quickly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIBIqaeiE2M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxnP-6EZ3ZQ



Well even a blind hog.....LOL

Another 100W LED 'blind hog' dealing with the heat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaJQ2fo4poU



Understood but none of the mega LEDs are anywhere near a home lighting
fixture.

On Mon, 09 May 2016 10:34:46 +0000
Spalted Walt wrote:

We report, you decide.

they produce heat

will they get to 451 farenheit is what wood workers wanna know


what do the data sheets say at digikey

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

Understood but none of the mega LEDs are anywhere near a home lighting
fixture.

I agree 100%.


Leon wrote:

Show me a single LED that consumed 180 watts by itself and I think it, the
LED itself and not the transformer or other involved electronics, will get
hot enough to equal a common 60 watt incandescent light bulb.

Electric Comet wrote:

On Mon, 09 May 2016 10:34:46 +0000
Spalted Walt wrote:

We report, you decide.

they produce heat

will they get to 451 farenheit is what wood workers wanna know


what do the data sheets say at digikey

http://www.cree.com/led-components-a.../XLampXML2.pdf

On Mon, 9 May 2016 11:20:27 -0700, Electric Comet
wrote:

On Mon, 09 May 2016 10:34:46 +0000
Spalted Walt wrote:

We report, you decide.

they produce heat

will they get to 451 farenheit is what wood workers wanna know

No, but they don't have to get even close to that hot, to burn your
house down.

what do the data sheets say at digikey

On Mon, 09 May 2016 10:34:46 +0000
Spalted Walt wrote:

We report, you decide.

also leds can damage your eyes

make sure and check the data sheets

Electric Comet wrote:

also leds can damage your eyes

So can the sun, yet I find it usefull.

http://machinedesign.com/blog/3-myth...ounding-leds-0
http://eyebulletin.com/study-says-th...mage-the-eyes/

On Wed, 11 May 2016 18:03:57 +0000
Spalted Walt wrote:

http://machinedesign.com/blog/3-myth...ounding-leds-0
http://eyebulletin.com/study-says-th...mage-the-eyes/

lets get a group of physicists and engineers together and have them
stare into some leds for a few hours just to prove to us how
harmless they are

On 5/11/2016 3:38 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 18:03:57 +0000
Spalted Walt wrote:

http://machinedesign.com/blog/3-myth...ounding-leds-0
http://eyebulletin.com/study-says-th...mage-the-eyes/

lets get a group of physicists and engineers together and have them
stare into some leds for a few hours just to prove to us how
harmless they are


Or better yet, let's get some research to find out where the
statement that LEDs can damage your eyes came from. What
documented danger is there?

Bill

On Thu, 12 May 2016 08:09:36 -0500, Bill Gill
wrote:

On 5/11/2016 3:38 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 18:03:57 +0000
Spalted Walt wrote:

http://machinedesign.com/blog/3-myth...ounding-leds-0
http://eyebulletin.com/study-says-th...mage-the-eyes/

lets get a group of physicists and engineers together and have them
stare into some leds for a few hours just to prove to us how
harmless they are


Or better yet, let's get some research to find out where the
statement that LEDs can damage your eyes came from. What
documented danger is there?

Let us see, an over current driven LED can pop and spread plastic
shrapnel....

next

On Thu, 12 May 2016 08:09:36 -0500
Bill Gill wrote:

Or better yet, let's get some research to find out where the
statement that LEDs can damage your eyes came from. What
documented danger is there?

conduct your own
get some leds and stare into them

On 5/12/16 7:09 AM, Bill Gill wrote:
On 5/11/2016 3:38 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 18:03:57 +0000
Spalted Walt wrote:

http://machinedesign.com/blog/3-myth...ounding-leds-0
http://eyebulletin.com/study-says-th...mage-the-eyes/


lets get a group of physicists and engineers together and have them
stare into some leds for a few hours just to prove to us how
harmless they are


Or better yet, let's get some research to find out where the
statement that LEDs can damage your eyes came from. What
documented danger is there?

Bill

Not based on digging up any document, but high intensity LEDs produce
light in the ultra violet (UV) portion of the spectrum (more efficient).
The change to visible light occurs in the phosphors used to cover the
LEDs. The primary difference between manufacturers devices lies in this
proprietary mix which determines the color and CRI. The coating also
needs to not degrade and withstand the intense heat. Cheap coatings can
fail, exposing the intense UV light. Phillips makes some A19 style bulbs
with this coating on the outer glass, away from the LED in the center.
Some of the bulb 'tear downs' (where they examine the quality of the
components remark on how nasty the exposed LED looks with this outer
glass removed.

I doubt a fully exposed LED would cause immediate damage like with a
laser, but it is similar to arc welding without proper eye protection.

-BR

On 5/12/16 7:09 AM, Bill Gill wrote:
On 5/11/2016 3:38 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 18:03:57 +0000
Spalted Walt wrote:

http://machinedesign.com/blog/3-myth...ounding-leds-0
http://eyebulletin.com/study-says-th...mage-the-eyes/


lets get a group of physicists and engineers together and have them
stare into some leds for a few hours just to prove to us how
harmless they are


Or better yet, let's get some research to find out where the
statement that LEDs can damage your eyes came from. What
documented danger is there?

Bill


Just to be complete:

http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cr..._EyeSafety.pdf

Of course many of these warnings are CYA statements.


-BR

Some LEDS have UV light. That can strain eyes.
They mix colors in the unit to balance color.

Color is based on the physical thickness between layers in
semi. Red was easy - large structure. Blue was tough.
had to be small and special dopant.
The blue might have some UV in it.

The tough ones - I have detected lasers used as LEDS.
That is a problem. They put them in diffusion lenses but
small beams are dangerous.

Martin

On 5/12/2016 8:09 AM, Bill Gill wrote:
On 5/11/2016 3:38 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 18:03:57 +0000
Spalted Walt wrote:

http://machinedesign.com/blog/3-myth...ounding-leds-0
http://eyebulletin.com/study-says-th...mage-the-eyes/


lets get a group of physicists and engineers together and have them
stare into some leds for a few hours just to prove to us how
harmless they are


Or better yet, let's get some research to find out where the
statement that LEDs can damage your eyes came from. What
documented danger is there?

Bill