The previous occupants of my newly acquired electric only flat had the
night storage heaters removed.
They were replaced with these fairly insubstantial panel heaters from
Aldi.
"EasyHome Panel Heaters Model Number PH-ET07H"
https://www.aldi.co.uk/easy-home-wal...81567188621900

ATM I can't quite understand why this was done.
The flat still has the Economy 7, 2 rate meters
I don't know if this metering system is still operating in any valid
sense.

I also don't know if the flat's night storage circuitry has been
replaced or just utilized to supply these new heating panels.

Either way I'm hoping that I can reverse the process and get the night
storage system back without to much disruption and cost.

Any advice on this would be much appreciated.
--

Mike

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On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 08:09:52 +0100, Mike Halmarack wrote:

Either way I'm hoping that I can reverse the process and get the night
storage system back without to much disruption and cost.

Any advice on this would be much appreciated.

Have you seen how much storage heaters are now?
And, you will also likely have to give them a peak electric supply as
well as the off-peak. Modern ones use 2 supplies to control them.

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 02:29:42 -0500, Alan wrote:

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 08:09:52 +0100, Mike Halmarack wrote:

Either way I'm hoping that I can reverse the process and get the night
storage system back without to much disruption and cost.

Any advice on this would be much appreciated.

Have you seen how much storage heaters are now?

Yes, about 600 quid each, which is quite pricey. I discussed this
regarding energy supplier options on moneysavingexpert and folks there
seemed to think that the cheap (to buy) panels in place now would be
inadequate for the task.

And, you will also likely have to give them a peak electric supply as
well as the off-peak. Modern ones use 2 supplies to control them.

I don't know what this would mean in terms of work and cost.
--

Mike

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On Sunday, 15 September 2019 08:50:52 UTC+1, Mike Halmarack wrote:
And, you will also likely have to give them a peak electric supply as
well as the off-peak. Modern ones use 2 supplies to control them.
I don't know what this would mean in terms of work and cost.

Not that much if there is a nearby 13 amp socket which can be spurred from, and the flat electrics are up to some heating load on the socket circuits. I think the largest Quantum is 2kW load so you can get a couple on a 30A ring okay.

You may be able to get pre-LOT20 secondhand storage heaters cheaply if you can collect from nearby ebay/gumtree sellers.

Depends on how the metering is arranged - it's possible the supplier has turned off the E7 function on the meter and it's now supplying all circuits 24 hours at the same rate. A photo of the intake/meter/consumer units may provide further insight.

Owain

On 15/09/2019 08:09, Mike Halmarack wrote:
The previous occupants of my newly acquired electric only flat had the
night storage heaters removed.
They were replaced with these fairly insubstantial panel heaters from
Aldi.
"EasyHome Panel Heaters Model Number PH-ET07H"
https://www.aldi.co.uk/easy-home-wal...81567188621900

ATM I can't quite understand why this was done.
The flat still has the Economy 7, 2 rate meters
I don't know if this metering system is still operating in any valid
sense.

I also don't know if the flat's night storage circuitry has been
replaced or just utilized to supply these new heating panels.

Either way I'm hoping that I can reverse the process and get the night
storage system back without to much disruption and cost.

Any advice on this would be much appreciated.


The problem with night storage heaters is they dont.
Store. Or heat.

Lovely in the mornings... icy cold by sunset

You need somethong with more thermal capacity than that, but you cant
fit it in the small flats.

Air source heatpump might be a better bet


--
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other ideas but to the massive onslaught of circumstance"

- John K Galbraith

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 01:11:06 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Sunday, 15 September 2019 08:50:52 UTC+1, Mike Halmarack wrote:
And, you will also likely have to give them a peak electric supply as
well as the off-peak. Modern ones use 2 supplies to control them.
I don't know what this would mean in terms of work and cost.

Not that much if there is a nearby 13 amp socket which can be spurred from, and the flat electrics are up to some heating load on the socket circuits. I think the largest Quantum is 2kW load so you can get a couple on a 30A ring okay.

You may be able to get pre-LOT20 secondhand storage heaters cheaply if you can collect from nearby ebay/gumtree sellers.

Depends on how the metering is arranged - it's possible the supplier has turned off the E7 function on the meter and it's now supplying all circuits 24 hours at the same rate. A photo of the intake/meter/consumer units may provide further insight.

Owain

I'll make that the first job after breckie, ta
--

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Mike Halmarack wrote:
The previous occupants of my newly acquired electric only flat had the
night storage heaters removed.
They were replaced with these fairly insubstantial panel heaters from
Aldi.
"EasyHome Panel Heaters Model Number PH-ET07H"
https://www.aldi.co.uk/easy-home-wal...81567188621900

ATM I can't quite understand why this was done.
The flat still has the Economy 7, 2 rate meters
I don't know if this metering system is still operating in any valid
sense.

I also don't know if the flat's night storage circuitry has been
replaced or just utilized to supply these new heating panels.

Either way I'm hoping that I can reverse the process and get the night
storage system back without to much disruption and cost.

Any advice on this would be much appreciated.

'Modern' economy 7 systems don't usually use separate wiring, just (as
you seem to have) a meter which switches rates for overnight
consumption.

So there needn't be any explicitly separate wiring for the heaters
(except in that it must ba capable of handling the load). My *guess*
would be that all you need to do is install heaters and get your
electricity supplier to switch you to an Economy 7 type tariff.

--
Chris Green
·

On 15/09/2019 09:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/09/2019 08:09, Mike Halmarack wrote:


You need somethong with more thermal capacity than that, but you cant
fit it in the small flats.

Air source heatpump might be a better bet


I was going to say that. Especially if it gets hot in the summer, with
one of the "reversible" systems there's a double benefit.

On Sunday, 15 September 2019 09:19:27 UTC+1, Mike Halmarack wrote:
Depends on how the metering is arranged - it's possible the supplier
has turned off the E7 function on the meter and it's now supplying
all circuits 24 hours at the same rate. A photo of the intake/meter/
consumer units may provide further insight.
I'll make that the first job after breckie, ta

Found you on MSE.

Your meter is a two rate meter but the rate changeover is controlled by an external time/teleswitch between terminal 5 (thin wire) and Neutral.

You then have to arrange your own off-peak load switching which might be by the same time/teleswitch used for the rate change, or a separate timeswitch which has to be kept in synch with the rate change switch, or your off-peak load will be charged at peak rates.

It therefore seems likely that an electrician will have rewired the off-peak circuits to an on-peak supply as part of the customer's wiring, rather than this having been achieveed by the supplier setting the off-peak supply to 24 hour.

Owain

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 09:11:25 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 15/09/2019 08:09, Mike Halmarack wrote:
The previous occupants of my newly acquired electric only flat had the
night storage heaters removed.
They were replaced with these fairly insubstantial panel heaters from
Aldi.
"EasyHome Panel Heaters Model Number PH-ET07H"
https://www.aldi.co.uk/easy-home-wal...81567188621900

ATM I can't quite understand why this was done.
The flat still has the Economy 7, 2 rate meters
I don't know if this metering system is still operating in any valid
sense.

I also don't know if the flat's night storage circuitry has been
replaced or just utilized to supply these new heating panels.

Either way I'm hoping that I can reverse the process and get the night
storage system back without to much disruption and cost.

Any advice on this would be much appreciated.


The problem with night storage heaters is they dont.
Store. Or heat.

Lovely in the mornings... icy cold by sunset

You need somethong with more thermal capacity than that, but you cant
fit it in the small flats.

Air source heatpump might be a better bet

Ahhh, thank you for bringing back fond memories of Machynlleth.

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On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 01:32:39 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Sunday, 15 September 2019 09:19:27 UTC+1, Mike Halmarack wrote:
Depends on how the metering is arranged - it's possible the supplier
has turned off the E7 function on the meter and it's now supplying
all circuits 24 hours at the same rate. A photo of the intake/meter/
consumer units may provide further insight.
I'll make that the first job after breckie, ta

Found you on MSE.

Your meter is a two rate meter but the rate changeover is controlled by an external time/teleswitch between terminal 5 (thin wire) and Neutral.

You then have to arrange your own off-peak load switching which might be by the same time/teleswitch used for the rate change, or a separate timeswitch which has to be kept in synch with the rate change switch, or your off-peak load will be charged at peak rates.

It therefore seems likely that an electrician will have rewired the off-peak circuits to an on-peak supply as part of the customer's wiring, rather than this having been achieveed by the supplier setting the off-peak supply to 24 hour.

Owain

Owain, I'm always deeply impressed with the extent and complexity of
your knowlege in these matters. Consequently, it'll take me a bit of
time to digest and comprehend the implications of the first 2 lines of
your answer.

Regarding the third line on the subject of whether it would be the
local electrician or supplier who caused the current situation.
I'm supposing that a call to the supplier would confirm this one way
or the other?
--

Mike

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On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 09:28:51 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 15/09/2019 09:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/09/2019 08:09, Mike Halmarack wrote:


You need somethong with more thermal capacity than that, but you cant
fit it in the small flats.

Air source heatpump might be a better bet


I was going to say that. Especially if it gets hot in the summer, with
one of the "reversible" systems there's a double benefit.

Not that I doubted Natch in any way but you adding your agreement with
the idea has made it more interesting as a possibility.
--

Mike

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On 15/09/2019 09:11, wrote:
On Sunday, 15 September 2019 08:50:52 UTC+1, Mike Halmarack wrote:
And, you will also likely have to give them a peak electric supply as
well as the off-peak. Modern ones use 2 supplies to control them.
I don't know what this would mean in terms of work and cost.

Not that much if there is a nearby 13 amp socket which can be spurred from, and the flat electrics are up to some heating load on the socket circuits. I think the largest Quantum is 2kW load so you can get a couple on a 30A ring okay.


It also depends what was done with the existing storage heater supplies
and the type of E7.

The last one I did had a separate fuse box (yes fuses) for the storage
heater supplies. I was able to set it up so that instead of the fuse box
been switched on at night it was on all day and I used the existing
storage heater supplies to provide the 24hr supply together with an
immersion heater timer to provide the E7 timing for the storage elements
at night.




--
Adam

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 09:24:44 +0100, Chris Green wrote:

Mike Halmarack wrote:
The previous occupants of my newly acquired electric only flat had the
night storage heaters removed.
They were replaced with these fairly insubstantial panel heaters from
Aldi.
"EasyHome Panel Heaters Model Number PH-ET07H"
https://www.aldi.co.uk/easy-home-wal...81567188621900

ATM I can't quite understand why this was done.
The flat still has the Economy 7, 2 rate meters
I don't know if this metering system is still operating in any valid
sense.

I also don't know if the flat's night storage circuitry has been
replaced or just utilized to supply these new heating panels.

Either way I'm hoping that I can reverse the process and get the night
storage system back without to much disruption and cost.

Any advice on this would be much appreciated.

'Modern' economy 7 systems don't usually use separate wiring, just (as
you seem to have) a meter which switches rates for overnight
consumption.

So there needn't be any explicitly separate wiring for the heaters
(except in that it must ba capable of handling the load). My *guess*
would be that all you need to do is install heaters and get your
electricity supplier to switch you to an Economy 7 type tariff.

What a cheering and most encouraging idea, thanks.

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On Sunday, 15 September 2019 09:33:28 UTC+1, Mike Halmarack wrote:
Ahhh, thank you for bringing back fond memories of Machynlleth.

That's my laugh for the day.

Owain

Well a look at the meter readings and the bill tariffs would be a good clue.
Sounds a little bonkers considering the cost of new storage heaters is not
insignificant, they surely all cannot have been faulty?

Brian

--
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Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Mike Halmarack" wrote in message
...
The previous occupants of my newly acquired electric only flat had the
night storage heaters removed.
They were replaced with these fairly insubstantial panel heaters from
Aldi.
"EasyHome Panel Heaters Model Number PH-ET07H"
https://www.aldi.co.uk/easy-home-wal...81567188621900

ATM I can't quite understand why this was done.
The flat still has the Economy 7, 2 rate meters
I don't know if this metering system is still operating in any valid
sense.

I also don't know if the flat's night storage circuitry has been
replaced or just utilized to supply these new heating panels.

Either way I'm hoping that I can reverse the process and get the night
storage system back without to much disruption and cost.

Any advice on this would be much appreciated.
--

Mike

---
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Yes well mine don't thank goodness.
Brian

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Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Alan" wrote in message
o.uk...
On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 08:09:52 +0100, Mike Halmarack wrote:

Either way I'm hoping that I can reverse the process and get the night
storage system back without to much disruption and cost.

Any advice on this would be much appreciated.

Have you seen how much storage heaters are now?
And, you will also likely have to give them a peak electric supply as
well as the off-peak. Modern ones use 2 supplies to control them.

On 15/09/2019 08:09, Mike Halmarack wrote:
The previous occupants of my newly acquired electric only flat had the
night storage heaters removed.
They were replaced with these fairly insubstantial panel heaters from
Aldi.
"EasyHome Panel Heaters Model Number PH-ET07H"
https://www.aldi.co.uk/easy-home-wal...81567188621900

ATM I can't quite understand why this was done.
The flat still has the Economy 7, 2 rate meters
I don't know if this metering system is still operating in any valid
sense.

I also don't know if the flat's night storage circuitry has been
replaced or just utilized to supply these new heating panels.

Either way I'm hoping that I can reverse the process and get the night
storage system back without to much disruption and cost.

Any advice on this would be much appreciated.


There are an awful lot of very stupid people out there.

The same sort of people watch 'Homes under the Hammer' and
get the ideas from that program -

"BAxi Bermuda BAck boiler = BAD, Combo Boiler = Good"
Ditto storage radiators.

If your electric *tariff* is still E7 then just acquire some
storage heaters and connect them back up. I'll be surprised
if you still are on an E7 tariff though.

I just have an immersion heater on a time switch set for the off peak times
and with an over ride if needed at other times.
Brian

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Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"ARW" wrote in message
...
On 15/09/2019 09:11, wrote:
On Sunday, 15 September 2019 08:50:52 UTC+1, Mike Halmarack wrote:
And, you will also likely have to give them a peak electric supply as
well as the off-peak. Modern ones use 2 supplies to control them.
I don't know what this would mean in terms of work and cost.

Not that much if there is a nearby 13 amp socket which can be spurred
from, and the flat electrics are up to some heating load on the socket
circuits. I think the largest Quantum is 2kW load so you can get a couple
on a 30A ring okay.


It also depends what was done with the existing storage heater supplies
and the type of E7.

The last one I did had a separate fuse box (yes fuses) for the storage
heater supplies. I was able to set it up so that instead of the fuse box
been switched on at night it was on all day and I used the existing
storage heater supplies to provide the 24hr supply together with an
immersion heater timer to provide the E7 timing for the storage elements
at night.




--
Adam

On 15/09/2019 09:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The problem with night storage heaters is they dont.
Store. Or heat.

How ever poor their storage is, it is infinitatley better
than the replacement panel rads.

On 15/09/2019 10:27, Andrew wrote:
On 15/09/2019 09:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The problem with night storage heaters is they dont.
Store. Or heat.

How ever poor their storage is, it is infinitatley better
than the replacement panel rads.

But those can at least be fired up in the daytime
And evenings

--
€œBut what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an
hypothesis!€�

Mary Wollstonecraft

On 15/09/2019 09:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Air source heatpump might be a better bet

But not in a flat, even below the 4th floor.

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 10:15:25 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Well a look at the meter readings and the bill tariffs would be a good clue.
Sounds a little bonkers considering the cost of new storage heaters is not
insignificant, they surely all cannot have been faulty?

Brian

They may have been put in with the original build, which was early to
mid seventies. There were 3 and with any luck there will be 3 again,
since a can't think of a preferable arrangement.
--

Mike

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Alan submitted this idea :
Have you seen how much storage heaters are now?
And, you will also likely have to give them a peak electric supply as
well as the off-peak. Modern ones use 2 supplies to control them.

The difference between peak and off-peak charges as gradually reduced
too, so off-peak heating might not produce the saving it once did.

On 15/09/2019 10:33, Mike Halmarack wrote:
On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 10:15:25 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Well a look at the meter readings and the bill tariffs would be a good clue.
Sounds a little bonkers considering the cost of new storage heaters is not
insignificant, they surely all cannot have been faulty?

Brian

They may have been put in with the original build, which was early to
mid seventies. There were 3 and with any luck there will be 3 again,
since a can't think of a preferable arrangement.


Hope the 'removers' hoovered up any asbestos dust that may
have been disturbed during removal.

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 10:23:14 +0100, Andrew
wrote:

On 15/09/2019 08:09, Mike Halmarack wrote:
The previous occupants of my newly acquired electric only flat had the
night storage heaters removed.
They were replaced with these fairly insubstantial panel heaters from
Aldi.
"EasyHome Panel Heaters Model Number PH-ET07H"
https://www.aldi.co.uk/easy-home-wal...81567188621900

ATM I can't quite understand why this was done.
The flat still has the Economy 7, 2 rate meters
I don't know if this metering system is still operating in any valid
sense.

I also don't know if the flat's night storage circuitry has been
replaced or just utilized to supply these new heating panels.

Either way I'm hoping that I can reverse the process and get the night
storage system back without to much disruption and cost.

Any advice on this would be much appreciated.


There are an awful lot of very stupid people out there.

The same sort of people watch 'Homes under the Hammer' and
get the ideas from that program -

"BAxi Bermuda BAck boiler = BAD, Combo Boiler = Good"
Ditto storage radiators.

If your electric *tariff* is still E7 then just acquire some
storage heaters and connect them back up. I'll be surprised
if you still are on an E7 tariff though.

Would that be a click at supplier HQ, or yet another rewire here?
--

Mike

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On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 10:36:18 +0100, Andrew
wrote:

On 15/09/2019 10:33, Mike Halmarack wrote:
On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 10:15:25 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Well a look at the meter readings and the bill tariffs would be a good clue.
Sounds a little bonkers considering the cost of new storage heaters is not
insignificant, they surely all cannot have been faulty?

Brian

They may have been put in with the original build, which was early to
mid seventies. There were 3 and with any luck there will be 3 again,
since a can't think of a preferable arrangement.


Hope the 'removers' hoovered up any asbestos dust that may
have been disturbed during removal.

Bejasus, killers in the carpets! Thank the lord I'm 72, so maybe old
age will get me before the asbestos, climate and air pollution do.
--

Mike

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On 15/09/2019 10:29, Andrew wrote:
On 15/09/2019 09:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Air source heatpump might be a better bet

But not in a flat, even below the 4th floor.

Why?


--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"

On 15/09/2019 10:36, Andrew wrote:
On 15/09/2019 10:33, Mike Halmarack wrote:
On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 10:15:25 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Well a look at the meter readings and the bill tariffs would be a
good clue.
Sounds a little bonkers considering the cost of new storage heaters
is not
insignificant, they surely all cannot have been faulty?

Brian

They may have been put in with the original build, which was early to
mid seventies. There were 3 and with any luck there will be 3 again,
since a can't think of a preferable arrangement.


Hope the 'removers' hoovered up any asbestos dust that may
have been disturbed during removal.

I nver found any asbestos in my storage heaters.
Just heavy blocks and a little bit of rockwool



--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"

On 15/09/2019 10:29, Andrew wrote:
On 15/09/2019 09:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Air source heatpump might be a better bet

But not in a flat, even below the 4th floor.

Do flats not have air around them?

--
Adam

On 15/09/2019 10:36, Mike Halmarack wrote:


Would that be a click at supplier HQ, or yet another rewire here?



How many fuse boxes/CUs have you got?

--
Adam

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 08:09:52 +0100, Mike Halmarack wrote:

"EasyHome Panel Heaters Model Number PH-ET07H"
https://www.aldi.co.uk/easy-home-wal...81567188621900

425 W !!! You sat on the sofa watching telly are likely to be pushing
out more heat!

How many are there?
Is the flat warm enough for you?
Have been in it for a winter yet?

ATM I can't quite understand why this was done.

Previous owner hadn't a clue and fell for the "economical" and "low
running costs" sales points. Both true as such, the things takes
bugger all power so is going to be "economical" and have "low running
costs" at the expense of not having a warm place to live.

The flat still has the Economy 7, 2 rate meters
I don't know if this metering system is still operating in any valid
sense.

Need to sort out how things are now connected up and look at what
your bills say regarding tarrif. The supply wiring for the storeage
heaters would almost certainly have been individual circuits from a
seperate consumer unit. The supply to which would have been switched
on/off under control of the time switch that also controlled which
register the meter used to record consumption.

I also don't know if the flat's night storage circuitry has been
replaced or just utilized to supply these new heating panels.

It may have been re-wired to a permenant supply. Or not depending on
how stupid the person doing the chnage of heaters was.

Either way I'm hoping that I can reverse the process and get the night
storage system back without to much disruption and cost.

Should be possible. Modern "high heat retention" storeage heaters are
much better than the old, barely insulated, pile of bricks. But they
don't come cheap and need a second, permenant, supply.

This second supply could be from a nearby ring via switched
connection unit provided that any given ring doesn't have more than a
couple of heaters on it. This supply not only keeps the electroncs
powered but is also used for "boost" heating if required.

ARW has suggested a workaround with the existing heater supplies
wired to permenant mains and suitable, individual, timeswitches
fitted at each heater to "fake" the E7 period switched supply.
That'll work but you need to make sure that the timeswitches and
tarrif clock are set for the same "on" period and don't drift for any
reason (clock accuracy, power cuts...).

Wonder if there are any "one to many" remote mains switches of
suitable switching capacity available? Preferably using the mains
wiring for signalling. X10?

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 15/09/2019 09:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Air source heatpump might be a better bet

Probably not.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 15/09/2019 10:54, ARW wrote:
On 15/09/2019 10:29, Andrew wrote:
On 15/09/2019 09:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Air source heatpump might be a better bet

But not in a flat, even below the 4th floor.

Do flats not have air around them?


Yes, but they tend to be leasehold and getting the freeholders
permission for something that might cause a nuisance to the
other flat owners is not easy.

On 15/09/2019 11:13, alan_m wrote:
On 15/09/2019 09:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Air source heatpump might be a better bet

Probably not.


How extremely informative you are today.
Why not?


--
€œProgress is precisely that which rules and regulations did not foresee,€�

€“ Ludwig von Mises

On 15/09/2019 11:24, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/09/2019 11:13, alan_m wrote:
On 15/09/2019 09:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Air source heatpump might be a better bet

Probably not.


How extremely informative you are today.
Why not?



It's a flat, probably leasehold, so you don't 'own'
the outer wall. The freeholder is responsible for that.

On 15/09/2019 11:11, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 08:09:52 +0100, Mike Halmarack wrote:

"EasyHome Panel Heaters Model Number PH-ET07H"
https://www.aldi.co.uk/easy-home-wal...81567188621900

425 W !!! You sat on the sofa watching telly are likely to be pushing
out more heat!


And a bit of thread drift...

http://www.c60design.co.uk/many-cats...passive-house/

--
Adam

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 11:11:10 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 08:09:52 +0100, Mike Halmarack wrote:

"EasyHome Panel Heaters Model Number PH-ET07H"
https://www.aldi.co.uk/easy-home-wal...81567188621900

425 W !!! You sat on the sofa watching telly are likely to be pushing
out more heat!

How many are there?
Is the flat warm enough for you?
Have been in it for a winter yet?

ATM I can't quite understand why this was done.

Previous owner hadn't a clue and fell for the "economical" and "low
running costs" sales points. Both true as such, the things takes
bugger all power so is going to be "economical" and have "low running
costs" at the expense of not having a warm place to live.

The flat still has the Economy 7, 2 rate meters
I don't know if this metering system is still operating in any valid
sense.

Need to sort out how things are now connected up and look at what
your bills say regarding tarrif. The supply wiring for the storeage
heaters would almost certainly have been individual circuits from a
seperate consumer unit. The supply to which would have been switched
on/off under control of the time switch that also controlled which
register the meter used to record consumption.

I also don't know if the flat's night storage circuitry has been
replaced or just utilized to supply these new heating panels.

It may have been re-wired to a permenant supply. Or not depending on
how stupid the person doing the chnage of heaters was.

Either way I'm hoping that I can reverse the process and get the night
storage system back without to much disruption and cost.

Should be possible. Modern "high heat retention" storeage heaters are
much better than the old, barely insulated, pile of bricks. But they
don't come cheap and need a second, permenant, supply.

This second supply could be from a nearby ring via switched
connection unit provided that any given ring doesn't have more than a
couple of heaters on it. This supply not only keeps the electroncs
powered but is also used for "boost" heating if required.

ARW has suggested a workaround with the existing heater supplies
wired to permenant mains and suitable, individual, timeswitches
fitted at each heater to "fake" the E7 period switched supply.
That'll work but you need to make sure that the timeswitches and
tarrif clock are set for the same "on" period and don't drift for any
reason (clock accuracy, power cuts...).

Wonder if there are any "one to many" remote mains switches of
suitable switching capacity available? Preferably using the mains
wiring for signalling. X10?

Wow Dave, that looks a lot of useful info.
It'll take me a while to work my way through it. Big thanks.
--

Mike

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On 15/09/2019 11:19, Andrew wrote:
On 15/09/2019 10:54, ARW wrote:
On 15/09/2019 10:29, Andrew wrote:
On 15/09/2019 09:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Air source heatpump might be a better bet

But not in a flat, even below the 4th floor.

Do flats not have air around them?


Yes, but they tend to be leasehold and getting the freeholders
permission for something that might cause a nuisance to the
other flat owners is not easy.


The tone of your original post suggested they would not work, not that
they might not be allowed




--
There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale
returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.

Mark Twain

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 01:11:06 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Sunday, 15 September 2019 08:50:52 UTC+1, Mike Halmarack wrote:
And, you will also likely have to give them a peak electric supply as
well as the off-peak. Modern ones use 2 supplies to control them.
I don't know what this would mean in terms of work and cost.

Not that much if there is a nearby 13 amp socket which can be spurred from, and the flat electrics are up to some heating load on the socket circuits. I think the largest Quantum is 2kW load so you can get a couple on a 30A ring okay.

You may be able to get pre-LOT20 secondhand storage heaters cheaply if you can collect from nearby ebay/gumtree sellers.

Depends on how the metering is arranged - it's possible the supplier has turned off the E7 function on the meter and it's now supplying all circuits 24 hours at the same rate. A photo of the intake/meter/consumer units may provide further insight.

Owain

Thanks for all the info Owain.
Here's what I've managed to glean so far, including a bill from the
electrician.

https://postimg.cc/gallery/mp6g689a/
--

Mike

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