On Sunday, 15 September 2019 23:54:05 UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote:
Is this common for the signalling link between the timeswitch and the
meter to be a neutral alone?

I think so, it helps to prevent abstraction.

On mine it is a single live (they are
already both connected to the incoming neutral.) is it possible that
the link from the timeswitch to the meter should be two wires; or even a
single live inapkpropriately implemented with black wire?

It's a switched neutral - I checked the wiring instructions for that meter model.

Owain

On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 10:04:03 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

Even moggies, if you can get £6.60 per kitten, you break even and get the
heating effect for free.

Wouldn¢t work here.

"Here"? In Australia? Then take yourself and your senile stench off to an
Australian ng, you filthy trolling senile pest!

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On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 13:36:38 +1000, jeikppkywk, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

I would just replace the Aldi panel heaters with higher output plug-in
ones say 2kW. Shouldn't cost more than £100.

Very expensive way to heat a house unless its super insulated
and even that is very expensive with an existing house/flat.

In auto-contradicting mode again, you abnormal senile pest? LOL

--
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MID:

On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 00:52:44 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Sunday, 15 September 2019 23:54:05 UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote:
Is this common for the signalling link between the timeswitch and the
meter to be a neutral alone?

I think so, it helps to prevent abstraction.

On mine it is a single live (they are
already both connected to the incoming neutral.) is it possible that
the link from the timeswitch to the meter should be two wires; or even a
single live inapkpropriately implemented with black wire?

It's a switched neutral - I checked the wiring instructions for that meter model.

Owain

I only wish you were here to do the job Owain.
But such a wish is a sacrilege for a DIYer.

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On 15/09/2019 22:05, jeikppkywk wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 15/09/2019 10:36, Andrew wrote:
On 15/09/2019 10:33, Mike Halmarack wrote:
On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 10:15:25 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Well a look at the meter readings and the bill tariffs would be a
good clue.
Sounds a little bonkers considering the cost of new storage heaters
is not
insignificant, they surely all cannot have been faulty?

Brian

They may have been put in with the original build, which was early to
mid seventies. There were 3 and with any luck there will be 3 again,
since a can't think of a preferable arrangement.


Hope the 'removers' hoovered up any asbestos dust that may
have been disturbed during removal.

I nver found any asbestos in my storage heaters.
Just heavy blocks and a little bit of rockwool

None in mine either., No rockwool either, very unusual
semi rigid very bright white insulation, allegedly the
same stuff used in the space shuttle heat shields etc.
Very light.

well that could be refractory ceramic fibre, and the jurys out as
to whether this is as dangerous as asbestos :-

http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalop...99/267_3v2.htm

My gazco log-effect gas fire originally came with a pack of this
white fluffy stuff which was placed around the 'logs' to simulate
'ash'.

latest models don't use this, but I think the logs are still made
from it, but being 'solid' they aren't such a risk.

On 15/09/2019 18:11, Tufnell Park wrote:
On 15/09/2019 08:09, Mike Halmarack wrote:
The previous occupants of my newly acquired electric only flat had the
night storage heaters removed.
They were replaced with these fairly insubstantial panel heaters from
Aldi.
"EasyHome Panel Heaters Model Number PH-ET07H"
https://www.aldi.co.uk/easy-home-wal...81567188621900

ATM I can't quite understand why this was done.
The flat still has the Economy 7, 2 rate meters
I don't know if this metering system is stillÂ* operating in any valid
sense.

I also don't know if the flat's night storage circuitry has been
replaced or just utilized to supply these new heating panels.

Either way I'm hoping that I can reverse the process and get the night
storage system back without to much disruption and cost.

Any advice on this would be much appreciated.


I would just replace the Aldi panel heaters with higher output plug-in
ones say 2kW. Shouldn't cost more than £100.

This sounds like a 1970's build flat, which means bugger all insulation
because offpeak leccy was sooo 'cheap' back then.

The Offpeak circuit has been disabled so he is going to spending a
fortune keeping warm.

You cannot have cavity wall insulation unless the freeholder has done it
(unlikely). Only gutting and drylining with a couple of inches of
celotex is the only effective way to insulate (assuming DG fitted).

If the OP has moved in already then he could only consider doing the
non-kitchen+bathrooms one by one, but only if he is capable of the DIY
required. If you have to pay someone it isn't economic unless you are
going to stay there for a longish time, like 20+ years.

On Monday, 16 September 2019 11:41:45 UTC+1, Mike Halmarack wrote:
I only wish you were here to do the job Owain.

Hah! Have you *seen* my wiring???

I hate working with meter tails, I blunted my best breadknife trying to cut them.

Owain

On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 07:43:24 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Monday, 16 September 2019 11:41:45 UTC+1, Mike Halmarack wrote:
I only wish you were here to do the job Owain.

Hah! Have you *seen* my wiring???

I hate working with meter tails, I blunted my best breadknife trying to cut them.

Owain


That's just what we need more of though, cabling with character.
--

Mike

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On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 02:29:42 -0500, Alan wrote:

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 08:09:52 +0100, Mike Halmarack wrote:

Either way I'm hoping that I can reverse the process and get the night
storage system back without to much disruption and cost.

Any advice on this would be much appreciated.

Have you seen how much storage heaters are now?
And, you will also likely have to give them a peak electric supply as
well as the off-peak. Modern ones use 2 supplies to control them.

Isn't that for the ones that have a separate supplementarty convection
heater included as back up?

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On 16/09/2019 16:32, Mike Halmarack wrote:
On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 07:43:24 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Monday, 16 September 2019 11:41:45 UTC+1, Mike Halmarack wrote:
I only wish you were here to do the job Owain.

Hah! Have you *seen* my wiring???

I hate working with meter tails, I blunted my best breadknife trying to cut them.

Owain


That's just what we need more of though, cabling with character.


There's character and there's character. If you want Gormenghast I
could be just the chap.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 15/09/2019 18:11, Tufnell Park wrote:

I would just replace the Aldi panel heaters with higher output plug-in
ones say 2kW. Shouldn't cost more than £100.

£100 each.

--
Adam

On 15/09/2019 14:03, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 05:23:57 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

The easiest way of rewiring this for E7 or E10 is to replace the meter
so you might want to look at a smart meter tariff) which will have both
24-hour and off-peak-switched live outputs.

No the easiest way is to feed the CU for the heaters via the main
(switched) contacts of the time switch.

The OP also needs to look at his electricity bill to see if he is
still on an E7 tarrif. Hopefully he is(*) and essentially all that is
required is the above wiring change at the board and installation of
new storeage heaters. New high heat retention heaters will need a
permenant supply but with two rings and three heaters that should be
possible to derive from the rings. I suspect one ring is kitchen and
the other rest of flat. Put one heater on the "kitchen" ring, the
other two on the "rest of flat" one.

(*) All consumption during the off peak period, that the meter still
"knows about" from the time switch, will be at the lower price.
Without the large heating load this isn't likely top be economic,
broadly you need to use 2/3 of your total consumption during the off
peak period to break even on E7.


The boost heater is 850W is for a 2kW Quantum storage heater so not a
problem on either of the ring (I would assume that the rings are kitchen
and rest of house). The reason I added separate timers was because there
were no local sockets it was cheaper to spend £50 on 3 timers than my
labour to run trunking all over the place.

If the op is happy with trunking or flex clipped to the top of the
skirting to the nearest socket then the easiest way to do the job is
connect the heater CU back into the time clock and do it that way.

--
Adam

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 15/09/2019 22:05, jeikppkywk wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 15/09/2019 10:36, Andrew wrote:
On 15/09/2019 10:33, Mike Halmarack wrote:
On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 10:15:25 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Well a look at the meter readings and the bill tariffs would be a
good clue.
Sounds a little bonkers considering the cost of new storage heaters
is not
insignificant, they surely all cannot have been faulty?

Brian

They may have been put in with the original build, which was early to
mid seventies. There were 3 and with any luck there will be 3 again,
since a can't think of a preferable arrangement.


Hope the 'removers' hoovered up any asbestos dust that may
have been disturbed during removal.

I nver found any asbestos in my storage heaters.
Just heavy blocks and a little bit of rockwool

None in mine either., No rockwool either, very unusual
semi rigid very bright white insulation, allegedly the
same stuff used in the space shuttle heat shields etc.
Very light.

well that could be refractory ceramic fibre,

Nope, no fiber involved at all.

and the jurys out as to whether this is as dangerous as asbestos :-

Nope, because there are no fibers involved. It has the
same consistency as polyfoam, although obviously with
a very different response to very high temperatures.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalop...99/267_3v2.htm

My gazco log-effect gas fire originally came with a pack of this
white fluffy stuff

Mine isnt fluffy at all. Its solid like polyfoam.

which was placed around the 'logs' to simulate 'ash'.

So nothing like whats in mine.

latest models don't use this, but I think the logs are still made from it,
but being 'solid' they aren't such a risk.

On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 04:17:33 +1000, jeikppkywk, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:


Nope

Nope? LOL

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