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Default Lifting huge stone flag....


"Any suggestions on how to approach? "

Sneak up on it, is my recommendation. Don't let the bugger know you're coming.

Bill.
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Default Lifting huge stone flag....

I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
necessary.

I can dig under the front edge if necessary, the sides are flower
beds so digging is limited & the rear edge is tight against the
house.

Any suggestions on how to approach?

TIA
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Default Lifting huge stone flag....

On 19/02/2019 16:10, Jim K.. wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
necessary.


That's going to be something like 350kg if its a uniform 4" thick!

I can dig under the front edge if necessary, the sides are flower
beds so digging is limited & the rear edge is tight against the
house.

Any suggestions on how to approach?


Sounds like you will need to lever it up from the front edge (propping
as you go) until you can get it on end, so you can relay the supporting
screed.

To relay it, treat it like you would a large shower tray. Slap a couple
of runners into the screed so the tops stand proud of the wet mortar.
Say a couple of lengths of 40mm waste pipe running front to back. Get
and end of the slab on the runners, and then slide it into position.
Then pull the runners out to drop it onto the mortar bed. You may need
someone on a long level to take the weight off the edge to get the
runner out.




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Default Lifting huge stone flag....

On 19/02/2019 16:10, Jim K.. wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
necessary.

I can dig under the front edge if necessary, the sides are flower
beds so digging is limited & the rear edge is tight against the
house.

Any suggestions on how to approach?


Get someone to send a really convincing anonymous tip to the police that
the previous occupier...


--
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Default Lifting huge stone flag....

Gawd this takes me back.
I seem to recall the council at least starting the lift using a big thick
plank to place a couple of jack things on which went to blades pushed under
the stone, then it was kind of tilted up until some kind of clamp could be
attached and a winch on the back of a tractor hoisted it almost vertically.
It looked bloody dangerous to me at the time.


I often wonder how councils cope when they need to dig up these wonderful
looking town squares made from Genuine Chinese York Stone faced paving
slabs.
Brian

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"Jim K.." wrote in message
o.uk...
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
necessary.

I can dig under the front edge if necessary, the sides are flower
beds so digging is limited & the rear edge is tight against the
house.

Any suggestions on how to approach?

TIA
--
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Default Lifting huge stone flag....

On 19/02/2019 16:39, John Rumm wrote:
On 19/02/2019 16:10, Jim K.. wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
* thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
* necessary.


That's going to be something like 350kg if its a uniform 4" thick!

I can dig under the front edge if necessary, the sides are flower
* beds so digging is limited & the rear edge is tight against the
* house.

Any suggestions on how to approach?


Sounds like you will need to lever it up from the front edge (propping
as you go) until you can get it on end, so you can relay the supporting
screed.

To relay it, treat it like you would a large shower tray. Slap a couple
of runners into the screed so the tops stand proud of the wet mortar.
Say a couple of lengths of 40mm waste pipe running front to back. Get
and end of the slab on the runners, and then slide it into position.
Then pull the runners out to drop it onto the mortar bed. You may need
someone on a long level to take the weight off the edge to get the
runner out.



If I've found the right density and done the sums right[1] it's around
360kg. I can see 40mm uPVC taking that when spread evenly over the 2
lengths but wondered about when the slab is only partly on. Fill the
pipes first?

[1] 0.15 cu m at 2400 kg/cu m

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Default Lifting huge stone flag....

On 19/02/2019 16:10, Jim K.. wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
necessary.

I can dig under the front edge if necessary, the sides are flower
beds so digging is limited & the rear edge is tight against the
house.

Any suggestions on how to approach?

TIA

Lidl had some inflatable air bags recently, don't know if that sort of
thing would help. Like these...

https://www.rutlands.co.uk/sp+hand-t...utlands+dk7082


Cheers
--
Clive
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Default Lifting huge stone flag....

On 19/02/2019 16:10, Jim K.. wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
necessary.

I can dig under the front edge if necessary, the sides are flower
beds so digging is limited & the rear edge is tight against the
house.

Any suggestions on how to approach?

TIA

I was having a coffee in a place on Piccadilly Gardens, Manchester a few
weeks ago and outside the shop council workmen were renovating the big
heavy flagstone pavement and replacing the broken stones. (I mentioned
the location so if you don't know it you can look at it on Streetview.)

First, there were a lot of workmen so DON'T try and do it by yourself.
Second, they had some pretty neat equipment including suction grippers
and frames to lift the flags and turn them and roll them out of the way.

I have no idea if a hire shop would have them/get them for you/know what
you were talking about but I think I'd start there. If that fails try
the local council highways dept? Now that our council hasn't any money
they are getting much more collaborative with residents about getting
things done and if they have the kit (and maybe a couple of experienced
blokes they could hire out for the day) it could be a goer.

Hope this helps.

Nick


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Default Lifting huge stone flag....

On 19/02/2019 16:10, Jim K.. wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
necessary.

I can dig under the front edge if necessary, the sides are flower
beds so digging is limited & the rear edge is tight against the
house.

Any suggestions on how to approach?

TIA


Lever up with mattock
https://www.toolstation.com/roughnec...-handle/p20759

Slide a plank of wood under the bit you have just levered up - repeat so
you have two planks under the edge. Use the mattock to lever up and out
from the opposite edge. The slab should slide on the planks. If too
heavy to lift use a car jack to push it further on to the planks.

Whatever you do always prop up the edges you have levered up on wood
blocks, or similar, so if you fail to lift it you still have room to
remove your fingers when dropping the slab back down again. I have
moved slabs much smaller than yours and they were effing heavy.

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Default Lifting huge stone flag....

On 19/02/2019 16:10, Jim K.. wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
necessary.


Is it rocking? Ff so just level up the side that appears to drop and
shovel in the mortar on that edge/corner. Bearing in mind the weight
and size I doubt if you need to re-bed the whole slab - gravity will
keep it in place.



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Default Lifting huge stone flag....

In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:
Gawd this takes me back. I seem to recall the council at least starting
the lift using a big thick plank to place a couple of jack things on
which went to blades pushed under the stone, then it was kind of tilted
up until some kind of clamp could be attached and a winch on the back of
a tractor hoisted it almost vertically. It looked bloody dangerous to me
at the time.



I often wonder how councils cope when they need to dig up these wonderful
looking town squares made from Genuine Chinese York Stone faced paving
slabs. Brian


I thought it was genuine Indian York stone.

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Default Lifting huge stone flag....

On Tuesday, 19 February 2019 16:10:29 UTC, JimK wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
necessary.
I can dig under the front edge if necessary, the sides are flower
beds so digging is limited & the rear edge is tight against the
house.
Any suggestions on how to approach?


Pictures of lots of exciting things here

https://www.safetyliftingear.com/cat...rb---slab-grab

pick one that looks suitable and then try a local hire place.

Owain
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Default Lifting huge stone flag....

On 19/02/2019 16:55, Robin wrote:
On 19/02/2019 16:39, John Rumm wrote:
On 19/02/2019 16:10, Jim K.. wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
* thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
* necessary.


That's going to be something like 350kg if its a uniform 4" thick!

I can dig under the front edge if necessary, the sides are flower
* beds so digging is limited & the rear edge is tight against the
* house.

Any suggestions on how to approach?


Sounds like you will need to lever it up from the front edge (propping
as you go) until you can get it on end, so you can relay the
supporting screed.

To relay it, treat it like you would a large shower tray. Slap a
couple of runners into the screed so the tops stand proud of the wet
mortar. Say a couple of lengths of 40mm waste pipe running front to
back. Get and end of the slab on the runners, and then slide it into
position. Then pull the runners out to drop it onto the mortar bed.
You may need someone on a long level to take the weight off the edge
to get the runner out.



If I've found the right density and done the sums right[1] it's around
360kg. I can see 40mm uPVC taking that when spread evenly over the 2
lengths but wondered about when the slab is only partly on. Fill the
pipes first?


Slap some wooden battens down them if unsure. Having said that, I can
easily stand on a solvent weld pipe without crushing it or making much
impression at all - and that is 100 kg as a point load. You could just
use timber, but the pipe would probably be more slippery.

[1] 0.15 cu m at 2400 kg/cu m



--
Cheers,

John.

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Default Lifting huge stone flag....

On 19/02/2019 17:00, Clive Arthur wrote:
On 19/02/2019 16:10, Jim K.. wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
* thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
* necessary.

I can dig under the front edge if necessary, the sides are flower
* beds so digging is limited & the rear edge is tight against the
* house.

Any suggestions on how to approach?

TIA

Lidl had some inflatable air bags recently, don't know if that sort of
thing would help.* Like these...

https://www.rutlands.co.uk/sp+hand-t...utlands+dk7082



Perhaps there is another expanding foam storey in the making... like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQbRmMxQ0tY




--
Cheers,

John.

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Default Lifting huge stone flag....

On 19/02/2019 18:36, John Rumm wrote:
snip

If I've found the right density and done the sums right[1] it's around
360kg. I can see 40mm uPVC taking that when spread evenly over the 2
lengths but wondered about when the slab is only partly on. Fill the
pipes first?


Slap some wooden battens down them if unsure. Having said that, I can
easily stand on a solvent weld pipe without crushing it or making much
impression at all - and that is 100 kg as a point load. You could just
use timber, but the pipe would probably be more slippery.


Thanks John.

It seems even the oddment of uPVC I had is inferior to your pipe


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Default Lifting huge stone flag....

On Tuesday, 19 February 2019 19:05:24 UTC, JimK wrote:
Yeah ta, though what do you lift it with once you've grabbed it
with one of those?


Burley bloke or blokette on each side

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIen0LlzMN0

Owain


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Default Lifting huge stone flag....

On Tuesday, 19 February 2019 19:17:43 UTC, wrote:
Burley bloke or blokette on each side

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIen0LlzMN0


https://www.hss.com/hire/p/vacuum-slab-lift-two-man

£76 for first day.

But I bet a couple of council blokes would do it for twenty quid and a bacon roll.

Owain
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Default Lifting huge stone flag....

John Rumm Wrote in message:
On 19/02/2019 17:00, Clive Arthur wrote:
On 19/02/2019 16:10, Jim K.. wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
necessary.

I can dig under the front edge if necessary, the sides are flower
beds so digging is limited & the rear edge is tight against the
house.

Any suggestions on how to approach?

TIA

Lidl had some inflatable air bags recently, don't know if that sort of
thing would help. Like these...

https://www.rutlands.co.uk/sp+hand-t...utlands+dk7082



Perhaps there is another expanding foam storey in the making... like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQbRmMxQ0tY


Ha!
Though, in essence, is what he was putting under those slabs any
different from the canned variety often mentioned on
here?
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Default Lifting huge stone flag....

alan_m Wrote in message:
On 19/02/2019 16:10, Jim K.. wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
necessary.


Is it rocking? Ff so just level up the side that appears to drop and
shovel in the mortar on that edge/corner. Bearing in mind the weight
and size I doubt if you need to re-bed the whole slab - gravity will
keep it in place.


Not rocking, it "just" needs raising 50mm to accommodate a new
paving scheme.

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Default Lifting huge stone flag....

On 19/02/2019 16:10, Jim K.. wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
necessary.

I can dig under the front edge if necessary, the sides are flower
beds so digging is limited & the rear edge is tight against the
house.

Any suggestions on how to approach?


Sub contract it to a Polish/Latvian/Estonian before Brexit and make a
bit of free money.


--
Adam
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Default Lifting huge stone flag....

Wrote in message:
On Tuesday, 19 February 2019 19:17:43 UTC, wrote:
Burley bloke or blokette on each side

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIen0LlzMN0

https://www.hss.com/hire/p/vacuum-slab-lift-two-man

76 for first day.


Upto 150kg
What's it attached to?

But I bet a couple of council blokes would do it for twenty quid and a bacon roll.


Thats 50 quid!!


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Default Lifting huge stone flag....



"Robin" wrote in message
...
On 19/02/2019 16:10, Jim K.. wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
necessary.

I can dig under the front edge if necessary, the sides are flower
beds so digging is limited & the rear edge is tight against the
house.

Any suggestions on how to approach?


Get someone to send a really convincing anonymous tip to the police that
the previous occupier...


They'd just break it up.

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Default Lifting huge stone flag....



"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 19/02/2019 16:10, Jim K.. wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
necessary.

I can dig under the front edge if necessary, the sides are flower
beds so digging is limited & the rear edge is tight against the
house.

Any suggestions on how to approach?

TIA


Lever up with mattock
https://www.toolstation.com/roughnec...-handle/p20759

Slide a plank of wood under the bit you have just levered up - repeat so
you have two planks under the edge. Use the mattock to lever up and out
from the opposite edge. The slab should slide on the planks. If too heavy
to lift use a car jack to push it further on to the planks.


Thats not going to work replacing it on the new mortar.

Whatever you do always prop up the edges you have levered up on wood
blocks, or similar, so if you fail to lift it you still have room to
remove your fingers when dropping the slab back down again. I have moved
slabs much smaller than yours and they were effing heavy.



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wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 19 February 2019 16:10:29 UTC, JimK wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
necessary.
I can dig under the front edge if necessary, the sides are flower
beds so digging is limited & the rear edge is tight against the
house.
Any suggestions on how to approach?


Pictures of lots of exciting things here

https://www.safetyliftingear.com/cat...rb---slab-grab


Cant see any of those being viable given that they all grab
two opposite sides and his only has one edge available.

The suction system looks much more viable if
the top surface is good enough for it to work.

pick one that looks suitable and then try a local hire place.



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Default Lonely Psychotic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert! LOL

On Wed, 20 Feb 2019 07:17:36 +1100, 2987fr, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote:


Those dont have to put it back on the new mortar.

A forklift will get it out, its putting it back thats the harder part.


Not as hard as getting you perverted senile pest out of all the groups that
you infest!

--
Bill Wright to Rot Speed:
"That confirms my opinion that you are a despicable little ****."
MID:
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Default Lonely Psychotic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert! LOL

On Wed, 20 Feb 2019 07:15:54 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


Lidl had some inflatable air bags recently, don't know if that sort of
thing would help. Like these...

https://www.rutlands.co.uk/sp+hand-t...utlands+dk7082


Not going to work


In auto-contradicting mode again, you perverted senile idiot from Oz? LOL

--
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"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
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On Wed, 20 Feb 2019 07:25:33 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


Thats not going to work replacing it on the new mortar.


That's not for a senile trolling asshole like you to decide!

--
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"Do you practice arguing with yourself in an empty room?"
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Default Lonely Psychotic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert! LOL

On Wed, 20 Feb 2019 07:35:52 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:

Pictures of lots of exciting things here

https://www.safetyliftingear.com/cat...rb---slab-grab


Cant see


We CAN see that you are a ridiculous auto-contradicting senile pest, senile
Rot!

Take one of those, cretin:
https://thetravellingtiles.files.wor...b6f9820001.jpg

--
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"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:
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Default Lifting huge stone flag....

On 2019-02-19 1:25 p.m., Rod Speed wrote:


"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 19/02/2019 16:10, Jim K.. wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
* thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
* necessary.

I can dig under the front edge if necessary, the sides are flower
* beds so digging is limited & the rear edge is tight against the
* house.

Any suggestions on how to approach?

TIA


Lever up with mattock
https://www.toolstation.com/roughnec...-handle/p20759


Slide a plank of wood under the bit you have just levered up - repeat
so you have two planks under the edge. Use the mattock to lever up and
out from the opposite edge. The slab should slide on the planks.* If
too heavy to lift use a car jack to push it further on to the planks.


Thats not going to work replacing it on the new mortar.

Whatever you do always prop up the edges you have levered up on wood
blocks, or similar, so if you fail to lift it you still have room to
remove your fingers when dropping the slab back down again.* I have
moved slabs much smaller than yours and they were effing heavy.



wimp
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Default Lifting huge stone flag....

On 19/02/2019 16:55, Robin wrote:
On 19/02/2019 16:39, John Rumm wrote:
On 19/02/2019 16:10, Jim K.. wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
* thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
* necessary.


That's going to be something like 350kg if its a uniform 4" thick!

I can dig under the front edge if necessary, the sides are flower
* beds so digging is limited & the rear edge is tight against the
* house.

Any suggestions on how to approach?


Sounds like you will need to lever it up from the front edge (propping
as you go) until you can get it on end, so you can relay the
supporting screed.

To relay it, treat it like you would a large shower tray. Slap a
couple of runners into the screed so the tops stand proud of the wet
mortar. Say a couple of lengths of 40mm waste pipe running front to
back. Get and end of the slab on the runners, and then slide it into
position. Then pull the runners out to drop it onto the mortar bed.
You may need someone on a long level to take the weight off the edge
to get the runner out.



If I've found the right density and done the sums right[1] it's around
360kg. I can see 40mm uPVC taking that when spread evenly over the 2
lengths but wondered about when the slab is only partly on. Fill the
pipes first?

[1] 0.15 cu m at 2400 kg/cu m


Mmm. yes. I think your calcs are OK

This is levers and fulcrums time. or a crane or digger




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who talks little,When his work is done, his aim fulfilled,They will say,
We did this ourselves.

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Default Lifting huge stone flag....



"Jim K.." wrote in message
o.uk...
Wrote in message:
On Tuesday, 19 February 2019 16:10:29 UTC, JimK wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
necessary.
I can dig under the front edge if necessary, the sides are flower
beds so digging is limited & the rear edge is tight against the
house.
Any suggestions on how to approach?


Pictures of lots of exciting things here

https://www.safetyliftingear.com/cat...rb---slab-grab

pick one that looks suitable and then try a local hire place.

Owain


Yeah ta, though what do you lift it with once you've grabbed it
with one of those?


Any sort of crane system. I'd use sheerlegs in the adjacent garden
bends or a stabilised inverted U frame in the garden beds but
without a photo, its hard to say if that would be practical.

Access (& cash ;-)) is very tight...


dirt cheap cost wise, chain block and tackle, trivially hireable.



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Default Lifting huge stone flag....

On 19/02/2019 19:03, Jim K.. wrote:
alan_m Wrote in message:
On 19/02/2019 16:10, Jim K.. wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
necessary.


Is it rocking? Ff so just level up the side that appears to drop and
shovel in the mortar on that edge/corner. Bearing in mind the weight
and size I doubt if you need to re-bed the whole slab - gravity will
keep it in place.


Not rocking, it "just" needs raising 50mm to accommodate a new
paving scheme.


Level up each edge - insert 50mm supporting blocks at each corner and
check levels.

Pack in some fairly dry mortar very tightly using a short plank to push
it in. Lever up slab again to remove spacer block. Check for level and
fill the gaps left by the spacer blocks with more mortar.

Make sure that you don't bridge your damp proof course where the slab
meets your wall.

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wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 19 February 2019 19:05:24 UTC, JimK wrote:
Yeah ta, though what do you lift it with once you've grabbed it
with one of those?


Burley bloke or blokette on each side

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIen0LlzMN0


Not really viable with a 400kg flag.

Chain block like used with car engines etc would be better.

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Default Lifting huge stone flag....

On Tuesday, 19 February 2019 19:22:29 UTC, JimK wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIen0LlzMN0

https://www.hss.com/hire/p/vacuum-slab-lift-two-man
Ł76 for first day.

Upto 150kg
What's it attached to?


There is the option for presumably a crane for repeated use, but if you watch the video two blokes handle a slab quite easily. The vacuum part is battery powered.

Owain
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Default Lifting huge stone flag....



"Jim K.." wrote in message
...
"Rod Speed" Wrote in message:


"Clive Arthur" wrote in message
...
On 19/02/2019 16:10, Jim K.. wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
necessary.

I can dig under the front edge if necessary, the sides are flower
beds so digging is limited & the rear edge is tight against the
house.

Any suggestions on how to approach?

TIA

Lidl had some inflatable air bags recently, don't know if that sort of
thing would help. Like these...

https://www.rutlands.co.uk/sp+hand-t...utlands+dk7082


Not going to work putting the flag back on the new mortar.



I rather think it would.


Only if you leave it under the flag. That would work.

Still reckon its better to rent one of those vacuum things
and a chain block using sheer legs, mainly because that
is a lot easier with the initial lift.

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Default Lonely Psychotic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert! LOL

On Wed, 20 Feb 2019 08:02:52 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


Any sort of crane system. I'd use sheerlegs in the adjacent garden
bends or a stabilised inverted U frame in the garden beds but
without a photo, its hard to say if that would be practical.


YOU all-knowing senile asshole can say it even without ANY photo and data!
It's your HALLMARK, sicko!

--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing senile Rot:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID:


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