Hello,

We have a stone post, roughly 4' tall by 1' by 1'. It's an old
gatepost but purely ornamental. It has two hinge pins inserted but the
bottom one is so near the base that it is buried. If the post was
raised sufficient to allow the bottom pin to be used, the post simply
would not be secure in the ground. So I can only imagine that the post
was originally bigger but some broke off the bottom, rendering it
ornamental only.

SWMBO wants to rearrange the garden and move this post to give us more
room. Obviously it is very heavy. What are the safe ways to move it?
Breaking it up (angle grinder!) is one option, but I am told these can
be sold, so keeping it intact might be better. That said, are they
only worth something when they can be used?

A farm jack could be used to lift it, only I don't own one and I they
seem to cost £75, which is a bit much for a one off job (and would I
need two: one for each end?).

I did buy an electric winch from Aldi a long time ago, thinking it
would be useful for something one day. I've never known what to secure
it to, to use it. I think the picture on the box shows it being used
to lift a car engine, which is something I have never done and I am
unlikely to ever do. Perhaps they think that people who know how to
disconnect engines will know how to fit a winch? Perhaps they think
mechanics will weld their own frame?

Perhaps a metal frame on wheels, designed that it will not topple
over, would work but as I have never welded it is outside my
capabilities. I guess another thing to consider with such a design
would be a way to brake the wheels to stop the frame running away and
running someone over or smashing into obstacles.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Stephen.

On Aug 12, 5:04*pm, Stephen wrote:
We have a stone post, roughly 4' tall by 1' by 1'.

Something crude involving a shedload of pallets. Provided that you
design so that everything is always in simple vertical compression,
never relying on them as a beam in bending, or with any sideways
forces, this isn't as hazardous as one might think.

or:

Take my engine crane (£200, a bargain, used regularly, sometimes even
for engines) and set that up around the post to lift it. Although
it's meant to sit on a tricycle of four wheels (two close-set), the
frame's also pretty stable as two sides of a triangle even on soft
ground. Then drop the post onto a trolley made of a pallet with four
big casters fastened to it (handy things).

I have one of those electric winches. Rarely use it as the engine
crane is generally far more useful. I've a high-lift jack too, which
is one of the most dangerous bits of kit I own, on a par with
chainsaws.

On Aug 12, 5:04*pm, Stephen wrote:
Hello,

We have a stone post, roughly 4' tall by 1' by 1'. It's an old
gatepost but purely ornamental. It has two hinge pins inserted but the
bottom one is so near the base that it is buried. If the post was
raised sufficient to allow the bottom pin to be used, the post simply
would not be secure in the ground. So I can only imagine that the post
was originally bigger but some broke off the bottom, rendering it
ornamental only.

SWMBO wants to rearrange the garden and move this post to give us more
room. Obviously it is very heavy. What are the safe ways to move it?
Breaking it up (angle grinder!) is one option, but I am told these can
be sold, so keeping it intact might be better. That said, are they
only worth something when they can be used?

A farm jack could be used to lift it, only I don't own one and I they
seem to cost 75, which is a bit much for a one off job (and would I
need two: one for each end?).

I did buy an electric winch from Aldi a long time ago, thinking it
would be useful for something one day. I've never known what to secure
it to, to use it. I think the picture on the box shows it being used
to lift a car engine, which is something I have never done and I am
unlikely to ever do. Perhaps they think that people who know how to
disconnect engines will know how to fit a winch? Perhaps they think
mechanics will weld their own frame?

2x4 timber's plenty strong enough for that

Perhaps a metal frame on wheels, designed that it will not topple
over, would work but as I have never welded it is outside my
capabilities. I guess another thing to consider with such a design
would be a way to brake the wheels to stop the frame running away and
running someone over or smashing into obstacles.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Stephen.

I'd be more inclined to dig around it, placing crates so it falls over
gracefully, then let the buyer take it from there. Buyer must have the
means to move it.


NT

Stephen wrote:
Perhaps a metal frame on wheels, designed that it will not topple
over, would work but as I have never welded it is outside my
capabilities. I guess another thing to consider with such a design
would be a way to brake the wheels to stop the frame running away and
running someone over or smashing into obstacles.

Any ideas?

Back of an envelope says under half a ton, so if the ground you want to
move it over is hard and level, hire a commercial engine crane for the
day you want to move it, or use the chocked engine crane for lifting and
a heavy duty trolley or trailer to move it. A lifting strap wrapped
round the middle of it connected to the crane hook will lift it, and
either stand clear or use ropes to steady it as it comes out of the hole.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Sun, 12 Aug 2012 17:04:24 +0100, Stephen wrote:

We have a stone post, roughly 4' tall by 1' by 1'.

How much more is in the ground? Add another 1.5 cuft to the 4 cuft you
can see and the weight will be around 350kg...

I don't think a farm jack could handle that and how do you spread the
load enough close enough to the post to stop the end of the jack just
sinking into the ground? That's assuming a farm ack is rated that high...

I did buy an electric winch from Aldi a long time ago,

Max lift rating? Need a very strurdy frame, and the problems of spreading
the load again so the wheels down sink in.

I also have a gate post that could do with moving but I'll just ask one
of the local farmers with a front bucket on a tractor to come along with
a strop or two. Access isn't a problem...

If that isn't an option for you I suggest Egyption/Stone age methods with
rollers on boards, ropes and several strong blokes. ie the lump doesn't
have to be actually lifted very much at all. Pivoted at groundlevel
against a steep ramp down onto onto a set of rollers on boards the pushed
shoved to the new location and the end lowered by
wedging/levering/blocking up the top end.

Just remember if it wants to go in any given direction you won't be able
to stop it just get the F out of the way. So you need to think about how
the direction it wants to go is also the direction you want as well.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Stephen wrote:
Hello,

We have a stone post, roughly 4' tall by 1' by 1'. It's an old
gatepost but purely ornamental. It has two hinge pins inserted but the
bottom one is so near the base that it is buried. If the post was
raised sufficient to allow the bottom pin to be used, the post simply
would not be secure in the ground. So I can only imagine that the post
was originally bigger but some broke off the bottom, rendering it
ornamental only.

SWMBO wants to rearrange the garden and move this post to give us more
room. Obviously it is very heavy. What are the safe ways to move it?
Breaking it up (angle grinder!) is one option, but I am told these can
be sold, so keeping it intact might be better. That said, are they
only worth something when they can be used?

A farm jack could be used to lift it, only I don't own one and I they
seem to cost £75, which is a bit much for a one off job (and would I
need two: one for each end?).

I did buy an electric winch from Aldi a long time ago, thinking it
would be useful for something one day. I've never known what to secure
it to, to use it. I think the picture on the box shows it being used
to lift a car engine, which is something I have never done and I am
unlikely to ever do. Perhaps they think that people who know how to
disconnect engines will know how to fit a winch? Perhaps they think
mechanics will weld their own frame?

Perhaps a metal frame on wheels, designed that it will not topple
over, would work but as I have never welded it is outside my
capabilities. I guess another thing to consider with such a design
would be a way to brake the wheels to stop the frame running away and
running someone over or smashing into obstacles.

It's highly unlkikely that anyone would want it.
It weighs approx 260kg, so crack it into two pieces and lob it in a skip

On Sun, 12 Aug 2012 09:25:55 -0700 (PDT), Andy Dingley
wrote:

my engine crane (=A3200, a bargain, used regularly, sometimes even
for engines) and set that up around the post to lift it. Although
it's meant to sit on a tricycle of four wheels (two close-set), the
frame's also pretty stable as two sides of a triangle even on soft
ground. Then drop the post onto a trolley made of a pallet with four
big casters fastened to it (handy things).

Is your crane something like this?
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/pr...workshop-crane

That's the kind of thing I had in mind but I don't have one ;(

I have one of those electric winches. Rarely use it as the engine
crane is generally far more useful.

When you do use it, what is it fastened to?I might use mine (not for
this but for other jobs) if only I could work out what to fix it to!

I've a high-lift jack too, which
is one of the most dangerous bits of kit I own, on a par with
chainsaws.

Are we talking about something like this:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/farm-jack-...questid=214863

I hadn't seen or heard of these before, until I googled for ideas of
how to move it. Looking at this photo, it doesn't look like the
lifting "arm" protrudes very far, so I would need something to go
underneath and if I could lift it to put something underneath, I
wouldn't be asking how to lift it!

Why do you say they are as dangerous as a chainsaw? Is it the
consequences of the object being lifted falling off and on top of you
or something else?

Thanks,
Stephen.

On Sun, 12 Aug 2012 09:27:39 -0700 (PDT), NT
wrote:

2x4 timber's plenty strong enough for that

Bolt the winch to 2x4? I could certainly try that, even if not for
this job but other applications. I hear people talking about winches,
though I suspect ones bolted to their cars, being used to pull out
tree stumps and all sorts of things but I could never work out what to
fit mine to, to do these.

let the buyer take it from there. Buyer must have the
means to move it.

I was thinking that!

On Sun, 12 Aug 2012 17:41:12 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

I don't think a farm jack could handle that and how do you spread the
load enough close enough to the post to stop the end of the jack just
sinking into the ground? That's assuming a farm ack is rated that high...

I hadn't heard of farm jacks until today and your point about them
sinking is one I had not thought of. There are several on Amazon rated
to 3000kg (I can't work out how to quote Amazon urls they seem to be
so long; does all of it need to be copied and pasted or is some
session information?)

So I think the weight would be within the limits of a farm jack.
Though as I don't have a farm jack and as you and others have
highlighted possible problems, I don't think I will be going down this
route.

I also have a gate post that could do with moving but I'll just ask one
of the local farmers with a front bucket on a tractor to come along with
a strop or two. Access isn't a problem...

I wonder whether something with a bucket was used to get it in place
originally, though there is only a narrow gate, not much larger than a
doorway. Do slim machines exist that could get through such a small
space?

I had a quick look on ebay, and this sort of thing seems to go for
around £100-ish. I think that probably sets a limit on how much you
should pay for gear to unearth it - ie not very much.

It's not very DIY, but I'd stick it on ebay with a 99p start and a
condition that the buyer digs it up and takes it away.

Stephen wrote:
On Sun, 12 Aug 2012 09:25:55 -0700 (PDT), Andy Dingley
I've a high-lift jack too, which
is one of the most dangerous bits of kit I own, on a par with
chainsaws.

Are we talking about something like this:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/farm-jack-...questid=214863

Why do you say they are as dangerous as a chainsaw? Is it the
consequences of the object being lifted falling off and on top of you
or something else?

You could start with that, then add in the probability that at some
point the ratchet *will* fail under load, dropping whatever's being
supported from a great height. The ratchet is also prone to getting
jammed by mud and dirt.

One common use for them is to lift a Land Rover out of deep ruts, then
push sideways to let the jack fall over and hope that the Land Rover
will land on higher ground. Half the time, the base kicks out sideways
and gets you in the shins or worse, while the Land Rover just drops back
into the ruts.

The safest way to use them is as a sort of short pull winch, with one
end attached to something solid, and the cable attached to the arm. Even
then, you need to watch them like a hawk.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Stephen wrote:
On Sun, 12 Aug 2012 17:41:12 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

I don't think a farm jack could handle that and how do you spread the
load enough close enough to the post to stop the end of the jack just
sinking into the ground? That's assuming a farm ack is rated that high...

I hadn't heard of farm jacks until today and your point about them
sinking is one I had not thought of. There are several on Amazon rated
to 3000kg (I can't work out how to quote Amazon urls they seem to be
so long; does all of it need to be copied and pasted or is some
session information?)

So I think the weight would be within the limits of a farm jack.
Though as I don't have a farm jack and as you and others have
highlighted possible problems, I don't think I will be going down this
route.

I also have a gate post that could do with moving but I'll just ask one
of the local farmers with a front bucket on a tractor to come along with
a strop or two. Access isn't a problem...

I wonder whether something with a bucket was used to get it in place
originally, though there is only a narrow gate, not much larger than a
doorway. Do slim machines exist that could get through such a small
space?

Installing them is simple. You put them on a trolley, dig a hole to take
the base, then tip them into the hole. With a bit of careful measuring
and a few blokes hanging round, it's not a big deal.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 12/08/2012 19:43, Phil L wrote:
Stephen wrote:
Hello,

We have a stone post, roughly 4' tall by 1' by 1'. It's an old
gatepost but purely ornamental. It has two hinge pins inserted but the
bottom one is so near the base that it is buried. If the post was
raised sufficient to allow the bottom pin to be used, the post simply
would not be secure in the ground. So I can only imagine that the post
was originally bigger but some broke off the bottom, rendering it
ornamental only.

SWMBO wants to rearrange the garden and move this post to give us more
room. Obviously it is very heavy. What are the safe ways to move it?
Breaking it up (angle grinder!) is one option, but I am told these can
be sold, so keeping it intact might be better. That said, are they
only worth something when they can be used?

A farm jack could be used to lift it, only I don't own one and I they
seem to cost £75, which is a bit much for a one off job (and would I
need two: one for each end?).

I did buy an electric winch from Aldi a long time ago, thinking it
would be useful for something one day. I've never known what to secure
it to, to use it. I think the picture on the box shows it being used
to lift a car engine, which is something I have never done and I am
unlikely to ever do. Perhaps they think that people who know how to
disconnect engines will know how to fit a winch? Perhaps they think
mechanics will weld their own frame?

Perhaps a metal frame on wheels, designed that it will not topple
over, would work but as I have never welded it is outside my
capabilities. I guess another thing to consider with such a design
would be a way to brake the wheels to stop the frame running away and
running someone over or smashing into obstacles.

It's highly unlkikely that anyone would want it.
It weighs approx 260kg, so crack it into two pieces and lob it in a skip


Buyer collects!....To get it out prop it up in the direction you wish it
to fall so that it cant fall. (ropes wood whatever) then dig away the
soil at the base at the side you wish it to fall, then take away the
props and push it. You could ensure it falls onto old scaffold pipe and
you could easily manoevre this around quite easily.

On 12/08/2012 20:43, Stephen wrote:
On Sun, 12 Aug 2012 17:41:12 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

I don't think a farm jack could handle that and how do you spread the
load enough close enough to the post to stop the end of the jack just
sinking into the ground? That's assuming a farm ack is rated that high...

I hadn't heard of farm jacks until today and your point about them
sinking is one I had not thought of. There are several on Amazon rated
to 3000kg (I can't work out how to quote Amazon urls they seem to be
so long; does all of it need to be copied and pasted or is some
session information?)

So I think the weight would be within the limits of a farm jack.
Though as I don't have a farm jack and as you and others have
highlighted possible problems, I don't think I will be going down this
route.

I also have a gate post that could do with moving but I'll just ask one
of the local farmers with a front bucket on a tractor to come along with
a strop or two. Access isn't a problem...

I wonder whether something with a bucket was used to get it in place
originally, though there is only a narrow gate, not much larger than a
doorway. Do slim machines exist that could get through such a small
space?

The little mini diggers weigh about a ton, so they might be able to pick
it up with the back-hoe, as long as they can get close. Could also add
ballast to the other end.

For a farm jack, just put the base on a railway sleeper and that would
spread the load.

On 12/08/2012 21:13, John Williamson wrote:
Stephen wrote:
On Sun, 12 Aug 2012 09:25:55 -0700 (PDT), Andy Dingley
I've a high-lift jack too, which
is one of the most dangerous bits of kit I own, on a par with
chainsaws.

Are we talking about something like this:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/farm-jack-...questid=214863

Why do you say they are as dangerous as a chainsaw? Is it the
consequences of the object being lifted falling off and on top of you
or something else?

You could start with that, then add in the probability that at some
point the ratchet *will* fail under load, dropping whatever's being
supported from a great height. The ratchet is also prone to getting
jammed by mud and dirt.

One common use for them is to lift a Land Rover out of deep ruts, then
push sideways to let the jack fall over and hope that the Land Rover
will land on higher ground. Half the time, the base kicks out sideways
and gets you in the shins or worse, while the Land Rover just drops back
into the ruts.

The safest way to use them is as a sort of short pull winch, with one
end attached to something solid, and the cable attached to the arm. Even
then, you need to watch them like a hawk.

I reckon they are *more* dangerous than a chainsaw. At least with them,
you know exactly which bit to avoid, and the kickback brake should
protect you from the most common accident

On Aug 12, 5:04*pm, Stephen wrote:
Hello,

We have a stone post, roughly 4' tall by 1' by 1'. It's an old
gatepost but purely ornamental. It has two hinge pins inserted but the
bottom one is so near the base that it is buried. If the post was
raised sufficient to allow the bottom pin to be used, the post simply
would not be secure in the ground. So I can only imagine that the post
was originally bigger but some broke off the bottom, rendering it
ornamental only.

SWMBO wants to rearrange the garden and move this post to give us more
room. Obviously it is very heavy. What are the safe ways to move it?
Breaking it up (angle grinder!) is one option, but I am told these can
be sold, so keeping it intact might be better. That said, are they
only worth something when they can be used?

A farm jack could be used to lift it, only I don't own one and I they
seem to cost 75, which is a bit much for a one off job (and would I
need two: one for each end?).

I did buy an electric winch from Aldi a long time ago, thinking it
would be useful for something one day. I've never known what to secure
it to, to use it. I think the picture on the box shows it being used
to lift a car engine, which is something I have never done and I am
unlikely to ever do. Perhaps they think that people who know how to
disconnect engines will know how to fit a winch? Perhaps they think
mechanics will weld their own frame?

Perhaps a metal frame on wheels, designed that it will not topple
over, would work but as I have never welded it is outside my
capabilities. I guess another thing to consider with such a design
would be a way to brake the wheels to stop the frame running away and
running someone over or smashing into obstacles.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Stephen.

No ones mentioned Wally Wallington....

http://www.theforgottentechnology.com

Cheers
Adam

On Sun, 12 Aug 2012 22:29:17 +0100, newshound wrote:

For a farm jack, just put the base on a railway sleeper and that would
spread the load.

But make damn sure the base of the jack *cannot* slip.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 12 Aug 2012 21:41:16 +0100, ss wrote:

To get it out prop it up in the direction you wish it to fall so that
it cant fall. (ropes wood whatever) then dig away the soil at the base
at the side you wish it to fall, then take away the props and push it.
You could ensure it falls onto old scaffold pipe and you could easily
manoevre this around quite easily.

At least three bits of scaff pole under it at all time so you need four
bits and the poles on boards or they will just squidge into the ground
and not act as rollers at all. 300kg is 47 stone...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 12 Aug 2012 21:41:16 +0100, ss wrote:

To get it out prop it up in the direction you wish it to fall so that
it cant fall. (ropes wood whatever) then dig away the soil at the base
at the side you wish it to fall, then take away the props and push it.
You could ensure it falls onto old scaffold pipe and you could easily
manoevre this around quite easily.

At least three bits of scaff pole under it at all time so you need four
bits and the poles on boards or they will just squidge into the ground
and not act as rollers at all. 300kg is 47 stone...




--
Cheers
Dave.

On 12/08/2012 17:04, Stephen wrote:
Hello,

We have a stone post, roughly 4' tall by 1' by 1'. It's an old
gatepost but purely ornamental. It has two hinge pins inserted but the
bottom one is so near the base that it is buried. If the post was
raised sufficient to allow the bottom pin to be used, the post simply
would not be secure in the ground. So I can only imagine that the post
was originally bigger but some broke off the bottom, rendering it
ornamental only.

SWMBO wants to rearrange the garden and move this post to give us more
room. Obviously it is very heavy. What are the safe ways to move it?
Breaking it up (angle grinder!) is one option, but I am told these can
be sold, so keeping it intact might be better. That said, are they
only worth something when they can be used?
....
Any ideas?

Several big blokes and a crate of beer.

Colin Bignell

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 12 Aug 2012 22:29:17 +0100, newshound wrote:

For a farm jack, just put the base on a railway sleeper and that would
spread the load.

But make damn sure the base of the jack *cannot* slip.

It will anyway, but you'll feel better having tried to stop it.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Aug 12, 8:33 pm, Stephen wrote:
Is your crane something like this?http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/pr...0-1-tonne-fold...

That's the kind of thing I had in mind but I don't have one ;(

Something like that. Older model Clarke I think, as my narrow wheels
are closer set.

They're good things. Talk your richest anvil-owning mate into buying
one, then borrow it. It's one of my most-borrowed tools.


I have one of those electric winches. Rarely use it as the engine
crane is generally far more useful.

When you do use it, what is it fastened to?I might use mine (not for
this but for other jobs) if only I could work out what to fix it to!

I mostly mount it on the floor. It's often used for winching,
sometimes for lifting from down in holes, occasionally by going up and
then down again over a pulley. Some extra pulley blocks makes it a
lot more use. Next planned use is to pull a steel girder portal frame
upright around a garage roller shutter.

For overhead mounts, usually fasten it to solid things by a couple of
big U bolts. Timber roof trusses or horizontal scaffold poles. I
noticed that Amazon also had people selling a £40 slewing jib to go
with it, that mounted on a vertical upright, post or solid wall.
Looked like a useful thing to have over the big lathe.

Like most of these things, it's useless on its own until you've been
to a cheap farm auction and picked up a bagful of assorted strops and
shackles.


I've a high-lift jack too, which
is one of the most dangerous bits of kit I own, on a par with
chainsaws.

Are we talking about something like this:http://www.screwfix.com/p/farm-jack-...questid=214863

Yes.

The base is small, so it needs an extension baseplate to spread the
load.

It's _very_ prone to toppling. Really, really prone to toppling.
Assume that _anything_ you lift with it is just planning to fall off
and either land on you, or break itself - from workshop anvils up to
Range Rovers.

It's a swine and a half to switch it from lift to lower. Mine is
packed with a wrap-around cover over the oily bit for storage and this
cover includes pockets for both the instruction manual (and disclaimer
forms) and also a 1lb copper hammer to clout the reversing pawls with.

These things are just evil. I won't lend these to people who I don't
trust with firearms and chainsaws.

On Aug 13, 1:33*am, Nightjar
wrote:
Several big blokes and a crate of beer.

Possibly how it was installed.

It's easier though with fewer, bigger, blokes (I used cage fighters
last time I needed this). Rugby players have a fair lifting capacity
each, but they're too wide to get many of them near it at once. It's
much easier if the post has a hole through it, because you can then
put a needle through it (scaff pole etc.) and then have your BBs
spaced out along the pole.

On 13/08/2012 11:17, Andy Dingley wrote:
On Aug 13, 1:33 am, Nightjar
wrote:
Several big blokes and a crate of beer.

Possibly how it was installed.

It's easier though with fewer, bigger, blokes (I used cage fighters
last time I needed this). Rugby players have a fair lifting capacity
each, but they're too wide to get many of them near it at once. It's
much easier if the post has a hole through it, because you can then
put a needle through it (scaff pole etc.) and then have your BBs
spaced out along the pole.

The local tug of war team might be more useful for what I had in mind -
an A frame to convert horizontal pull to vertical lift. Nobody needs to
be near the post when it comes out of the ground and you can put as many
people as you can get hold of onto a long rope.

Colin Bignell