Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope

As I mentioned earlier, I installed a Harbor Freight "truck crane" on
my truck. When trying to lift a 300 lbs rotary table into my truck,
using the crane, the winch jammed. It jammed because somehow the drum
went off its axis by about 1-2 mm.

Its other problem is that the hub ot the Harbor Freight winch was very
thin (less than 1 inch, for a 1/4 inch cable). As a result, the cable
would not wind nicely around the drum and it was a mess causing some
kinks.

After this jamming, I briefly considered fixing the winch, but decided
against it.

Instead, I bought a McMaster winch 3644T53. I also bought a cover for
it (shown on same page 1388). The price was $28 + $7.

I did not fit existing holes on HF crane exactly, so I had to mill
one hole bigger, about 2mm in one direction.

The result is much nicer -- it looks way better with a cover, and the
hub is 2 inches thick, so the wire rope wraps very nicely around the
hub without kinking.

That said, I am now considering replacing HF rope also, and would like
to know if "all wire rope is the same", or perhaps some wire rope is
more flexible than other kinds of wire rope. I have been reading
McMaster's description of various wire rope construction methods (6x37
etc) and it seems that this Harbor Freight wire rope is not
greatest. (which I sort of expected).

For those who would offer a snide remark such as "why did you buy this
crane if so many components are crap", I would answer that the crane
body does seem to be very sturdy, and a comparable brand name crane
would cost way above $1,000. I have never seen them sold, used.

Anyone has any experience? Would I gain anything from spending to buy
more expensive wire rope?

i
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Default Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope

Ignoramus9168 wrote:
As I mentioned earlier, I installed a Harbor Freight "truck crane" on
my truck. When trying to lift a 300 lbs rotary table into my truck,
using the crane, the winch jammed. It jammed because somehow the drum
went off its axis by about 1-2 mm.

Its other problem is that the hub ot the Harbor Freight winch was very
thin (less than 1 inch, for a 1/4 inch cable). As a result, the cable
would not wind nicely around the drum and it was a mess causing some
kinks.

After this jamming, I briefly considered fixing the winch, but decided
against it.

Instead, I bought a McMaster winch 3644T53. I also bought a cover for
it (shown on same page 1388). The price was $28 + $7.

I did not fit existing holes on HF crane exactly, so I had to mill
one hole bigger, about 2mm in one direction.

The result is much nicer -- it looks way better with a cover, and the
hub is 2 inches thick, so the wire rope wraps very nicely around the
hub without kinking.

That said, I am now considering replacing HF rope also, and would like
to know if "all wire rope is the same", or perhaps some wire rope is
more flexible than other kinds of wire rope. I have been reading
McMaster's description of various wire rope construction methods (6x37
etc) and it seems that this Harbor Freight wire rope is not
greatest. (which I sort of expected).

For those who would offer a snide remark such as "why did you buy this
crane if so many components are crap", I would answer that the crane
body does seem to be very sturdy, and a comparable brand name crane
would cost way above $1,000. I have never seen them sold, used.

Anyone has any experience? Would I gain anything from spending to buy
more expensive wire rope?

i


The finer the individual wire strands the more flexible the cable.
However the downside is that the finer wires break easier as well.
There is a 6/26 construction that tries to mitigate this by using fine
wire inside and covering it with a heavier outer wire wrap. Gives the
stuff some armor BUT it also makes it stiffer.

I use a 7/19 stainless 5/16" as the winch cable on the Blazer and we
use the same stuff on the winch on the rescue we have in the station.
Works great and is tough stuff.
Got it from. http://www.farmtek.com/farm/supplies/home


--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York
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Default Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope


"Ignoramus9168" wrote in message
...
As I mentioned earlier, I installed a Harbor Freight "truck crane" on
my truck. When trying to lift a 300 lbs rotary table into my truck,
using the crane, the winch jammed. It jammed because somehow the drum
went off its axis by about 1-2 mm.

Its other problem is that the hub ot the Harbor Freight winch was very
thin (less than 1 inch, for a 1/4 inch cable). As a result, the cable
would not wind nicely around the drum and it was a mess causing some
kinks.

After this jamming, I briefly considered fixing the winch, but decided
against it.

Instead, I bought a McMaster winch 3644T53. I also bought a cover for
it (shown on same page 1388). The price was $28 + $7.

I did not fit existing holes on HF crane exactly, so I had to mill
one hole bigger, about 2mm in one direction.

The result is much nicer -- it looks way better with a cover, and the
hub is 2 inches thick, so the wire rope wraps very nicely around the
hub without kinking.

That said, I am now considering replacing HF rope also, and would like
to know if "all wire rope is the same", or perhaps some wire rope is
more flexible than other kinds of wire rope. I have been reading
McMaster's description of various wire rope construction methods (6x37
etc) and it seems that this Harbor Freight wire rope is not
greatest. (which I sort of expected).

For those who would offer a snide remark such as "why did you buy this
crane if so many components are crap", I would answer that the crane
body does seem to be very sturdy, and a comparable brand name crane
would cost way above $1,000. I have never seen them sold, used.

Anyone has any experience? Would I gain anything from spending to buy
more expensive wire rope?

i


Yes. You would get better rope made of better steel. As a former crane
operator, I can tell you that using it wrong will mess up even a good rope
on its first use. Watch how it feeds into the spool, and try to guide it
like a level wind fishing line. Keep your hand at least a foot away from
the spool. I saw a guy lose four fingers like that once on a big air
tugger, but same principle. Some of HF stuff is good for what it's good
for. I bought an electric winch for my cabin that has about a 500# capacity
on a straight line. I don't like the looks of the pulley enough to trust it
by doubling the cable. So far, so good, but we just use it to make lifts of
less than 100#. Still, every once in a while I pay out all the line, and
then reload the reel using the level wind technique. You did good by
spending some extra bucks. A hammer is a hammer, but there's a lot of
difference in hoists. And if you have a problem with stuff after it's off
the deck, you got a problem.

Steve


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Default Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope

On Nov 30, 3:05 pm, Ignoramus9168
wrote:
As I mentioned earlier, I installed a Harbor Freight "truck crane" on
my truck. When trying to lift a 300 lbs rotary table into my truck,
using the crane, the winch jammed. It jammed because somehow the drum
went off its axis by about 1-2 mm.


Gosh - thats a big rotary table - what size is it, whats it originally
from.....

Andrew VK3BFA.
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Default Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope

On Nov 29, 11:05 pm, Ignoramus9168
wrote:
As I mentioned earlier, I installed a Harbor Freight "truck crane" on
my truck. When trying to lift a 300 lbs rotary table into my truck,
using the crane, the winch jammed. It jammed because somehow the drum
went off its axis by about 1-2 mm....

i


I've had no problems with an even cheaper Homier boat trailer winch
but consider replacing the wire rope with kernmantle mountaineering
rope which won't scratch your truck or cut your hand when a strand
breaks. I'd use a piece long enough to wrap around and lift a washing
machine. Tie a bowline or figure-eight loop in the end and clip in a
carabiner to replace the hook.

8mm Static Line doesn't stretch much and is rated for 10X your load
limit.
http://www.pelicanrope.com/polyesterropes.html

West Marine has excellent rope and fittings, too.

The per-foot price can be high but climbing and yachting stores may
have cutoffs and reel ends cheaper. I've found short pieces of really
nice rope with a minor slub in it at surplus stores.

Jim Wilkins


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Default Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope

Just a thought, I use "blue" rope on my ATV winch. It's supposed to be
stronger than the cable, and will not snap back if broken. I can also
go around a small radius drum without effort. I used to use cable when
using a snow plow on my ATV, but the cable could not handle the almost
right angle bend from the fairlead to the plow and broke. I've used the
rope for two years without breaking. The only negative is the price
(expensive). Look at
http://www.newircusers.com/store/rk2...nch _Line.jsp
for one source.

Dave



Ignoramus9168 wrote:
As I mentioned earlier, I installed a Harbor Freight "truck crane" on
my truck. When trying to lift a 300 lbs rotary table into my truck,
using the crane, the winch jammed. It jammed because somehow the drum
went off its axis by about 1-2 mm.

Its other problem is that the hub ot the Harbor Freight winch was very
thin (less than 1 inch, for a 1/4 inch cable). As a result, the cable
would not wind nicely around the drum and it was a mess causing some
kinks.

After this jamming, I briefly considered fixing the winch, but decided
against it.

Instead, I bought a McMaster winch 3644T53. I also bought a cover for
it (shown on same page 1388). The price was $28 + $7.

I did not fit existing holes on HF crane exactly, so I had to mill
one hole bigger, about 2mm in one direction.

The result is much nicer -- it looks way better with a cover, and the
hub is 2 inches thick, so the wire rope wraps very nicely around the
hub without kinking.

That said, I am now considering replacing HF rope also, and would like
to know if "all wire rope is the same", or perhaps some wire rope is
more flexible than other kinds of wire rope. I have been reading
McMaster's description of various wire rope construction methods (6x37
etc) and it seems that this Harbor Freight wire rope is not
greatest. (which I sort of expected).

For those who would offer a snide remark such as "why did you buy this
crane if so many components are crap", I would answer that the crane
body does seem to be very sturdy, and a comparable brand name crane
would cost way above $1,000. I have never seen them sold, used.

Anyone has any experience? Would I gain anything from spending to buy
more expensive wire rope?

i

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Default Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope


"Ignoramus9168" wrote in
message
...
As I mentioned earlier, I installed a Harbor Freight
"truck crane" on
my truck. When trying to lift a 300 lbs rotary table into
my truck,
using the crane, the winch jammed. It jammed because
somehow the drum
went off its axis by about 1-2 mm.

Its other problem is that the hub ot the Harbor Freight
winch was very
thin (less than 1 inch, for a 1/4 inch cable). As a
result, the cable
would not wind nicely around the drum and it was a mess
causing some
kinks.

After this jamming, I briefly considered fixing the winch,
but decided
against it.

Instead, I bought a McMaster winch 3644T53. I also bought
a cover for
it (shown on same page 1388). The price was $28 + $7.



If the McMaster winch turns out to be less than perfect,
take a look at
Dutton-Lainson brake winches. Holds a suspended load even
if
you let go of the handle. A little more money, but worth
it.


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Default Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope

On 2007-11-30, BillM wrote:

If the McMaster winch turns out to be less than perfect, take a look
at Dutton-Lainson brake winches. Holds a suspended load even if you
let go of the handle. A little more money, but worth it.


Bill, I will try it this weekend, but I have hopes that it will work
as advertised (unlike the HF winch). It is made in USA, also. I looked
at the Dutton winches, they look very nice and if I knew, I might have
bought one, but as it stands, I think that I have a combo that can do
its job.

I will try the crane in a day or two.

i
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Default Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope

On 2007-11-30, Jim Wilkins wrote:
I've had no problems with an even cheaper Homier boat trailer winch
but consider replacing the wire rope with kernmantle mountaineering
rope which won't scratch your truck or cut your hand when a strand
breaks. I'd use a piece long enough to wrap around and lift a washing
machine. Tie a bowline or figure-eight loop in the end and clip in a
carabiner to replace the hook.


Jim, I did not realize how strong fiber line could be. Very
interesting. I am seriously looking at them.

i
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Default Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope

On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:25:59 -0600, Ignoramus22774
wrote:

On 2007-11-30, Jim Wilkins wrote:
I've had no problems with an even cheaper Homier boat trailer winch
but consider replacing the wire rope with kernmantle mountaineering
rope which won't scratch your truck or cut your hand when a strand
breaks. I'd use a piece long enough to wrap around and lift a washing
machine. Tie a bowline or figure-eight loop in the end and clip in a
carabiner to replace the hook.


Jim, I did not realize how strong fiber line could be. Very
interesting. I am seriously looking at them.

i


Spectra and kevlar are both considerably stronger than steel of same
diameter, and a lot more flexible. The downsides are that they crush
more on the spool, don't stack or lay well and they do not resist
abrasion well at all.


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Default Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope

On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:37:48 GMT, "BillM"
wrote:


"Ignoramus9168" wrote in
message
m...
As I mentioned earlier, I installed a Harbor Freight
"truck crane" on
my truck. When trying to lift a 300 lbs rotary table into
my truck,
using the crane, the winch jammed. It jammed because
somehow the drum
went off its axis by about 1-2 mm.

Its other problem is that the hub ot the Harbor Freight
winch was very
thin (less than 1 inch, for a 1/4 inch cable). As a
result, the cable
would not wind nicely around the drum and it was a mess
causing some
kinks.

After this jamming, I briefly considered fixing the winch,
but decided
against it.

Instead, I bought a McMaster winch 3644T53. I also bought
a cover for
it (shown on same page 1388). The price was $28 + $7.



If the McMaster winch turns out to be less than perfect,
take a look at
Dutton-Lainson brake winches. Holds a suspended load even
if
you let go of the handle. A little more money, but worth
it.


Can be considerably cheaper in the long run. Think 3 days in hospital
for orthopedic hand reconstruction after being hit by a runaway boat
winch handle. (Been there, done that!)

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Default Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope

On 2007-11-30, Don Foreman wrote:
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:25:59 -0600, Ignoramus22774
wrote:

On 2007-11-30, Jim Wilkins wrote:
I've had no problems with an even cheaper Homier boat trailer winch
but consider replacing the wire rope with kernmantle mountaineering
rope which won't scratch your truck or cut your hand when a strand
breaks. I'd use a piece long enough to wrap around and lift a washing
machine. Tie a bowline or figure-eight loop in the end and clip in a
carabiner to replace the hook.


Jim, I did not realize how strong fiber line could be. Very
interesting. I am seriously looking at them.

i


Spectra and kevlar are both considerably stronger than steel of same
diameter, and a lot more flexible. The downsides are that they crush
more on the spool, don't stack or lay well and they do not resist
abrasion well at all.


I see. Well, I think that the most prudent course of action, right
now, would be to do nothing and keep the existing Harbor Freight wire
rope. Thanks Don.

i
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Default Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope

On Nov 30, 12:39 pm, Don Foreman
wrote:
....
Spectra and kevlar are both considerably stronger than steel of same
diameter, and a lot more flexible. The downsides are that they crush
more on the spool, don't stack or lay well and they do not resist
abrasion well at all.


That's why I suggested rock-climbing rope, specifically Static Line
which doesn't stretch or twist under load like the usual hardware-
store Nylon rope.
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Default Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope

On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:08:11 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus22774 quickly quoth:

On 2007-11-30, BillM wrote:

If the McMaster winch turns out to be less than perfect, take a look
at Dutton-Lainson brake winches. Holds a suspended load even if you
let go of the handle. A little more money, but worth it.


Bill, I will try it this weekend, but I have hopes that it will work
as advertised (unlike the HF winch). It is made in USA, also. I looked
at the Dutton winches, they look very nice and if I knew, I might have
bought one, but as it stands, I think that I have a combo that can do
its job.


I looked at your McMaster link and saw the winches which used
strapping. I had never seen that before and think that is a GREAT
idea. I've been bitten by stray needles from wire rope before.

GIFs at 11, I suppose?

--
Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries
or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.
-- William Faulkner
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Default Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope

On 2007-11-30, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:08:11 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus22774 quickly quoth:

On 2007-11-30, BillM wrote:

If the McMaster winch turns out to be less than perfect, take a look
at Dutton-Lainson brake winches. Holds a suspended load even if you
let go of the handle. A little more money, but worth it.


Bill, I will try it this weekend, but I have hopes that it will work
as advertised (unlike the HF winch). It is made in USA, also. I looked
at the Dutton winches, they look very nice and if I knew, I might have
bought one, but as it stands, I think that I have a combo that can do
its job.


I looked at your McMaster link and saw the winches which used
strapping. I had never seen that before and think that is a GREAT
idea. I've been bitten by stray needles from wire rope before.


I also think that it is a great idea, but I do not think that it will
work with this "crane".

GIFs at 11, I suppose?


I can take some pix this weekend. This winch looks nice in its black
cover.

i


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Default Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope

On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 15:33:41 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus22774 quickly quoth:

On 2007-11-30, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:08:11 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus22774 quickly quoth:

On 2007-11-30, BillM wrote:

If the McMaster winch turns out to be less than perfect, take a look
at Dutton-Lainson brake winches. Holds a suspended load even if you
let go of the handle. A little more money, but worth it.

Bill, I will try it this weekend, but I have hopes that it will work
as advertised (unlike the HF winch). It is made in USA, also. I looked
at the Dutton winches, they look very nice and if I knew, I might have
bought one, but as it stands, I think that I have a combo that can do
its job.


I looked at your McMaster link and saw the winches which used
strapping. I had never seen that before and think that is a GREAT
idea. I've been bitten by stray needles from wire rope before.


I also think that it is a great idea, but I do not think that it will
work with this "crane".


You'd have to fab (and weld-on) a fairlead roller/guide to the crane
boom nose, of course, but it'd work fine.


GIFs at 11, I suppose?


I can take some pix this weekend. This winch looks nice in its black
cover.


Bueno, bwana.

--
Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries
or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.
-- William Faulkner
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Default Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope

"Ignoramus9168" wrote in
message
om...
As I mentioned earlier, I installed a Harbor Freight
"truck crane" on
my truck. When trying to lift a 300 lbs rotary table into
my truck,
using the crane, the winch jammed.


Did you happen to notice how much deflection you had on the mast where it
meets the pickup side rail?

Steve


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Default Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope

On 2007-12-01, SteveB wrote:
"Ignoramus9168" wrote in
message
news:54udnThxHOqfEdLanZ2dnUVZ_j2dnZ2d@giganews. com...
As I mentioned earlier, I installed a Harbor Freight
"truck crane" on
my truck. When trying to lift a 300 lbs rotary table into
my truck,
using the crane, the winch jammed.


Did you happen to notice how much deflection you had on the mast where it
meets the pickup side rail?


Steve, unfortunately, I did not, I was preoccupied by the winch jam. I
will check tomorrow when I will unload said table.

i
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Default Harbor Freight winch vs. McMaster winch, and wire rope


"Ignoramus22774" wrote in message
...
On 2007-12-01, SteveB wrote:
"Ignoramus9168" wrote in
message
news:54udnThxHOqfEdLanZ2dnUVZ_j2dnZ2d@giganews .com...
As I mentioned earlier, I installed a Harbor Freight
"truck crane" on
my truck. When trying to lift a 300 lbs rotary table into
my truck,
using the crane, the winch jammed.


Did you happen to notice how much deflection you had on the mast where it
meets the pickup side rail?


Steve, unfortunately, I did not, I was preoccupied by the winch jam. I
will check tomorrow when I will unload said table.

i


lol. Yeah, when stuff starts flying, sometimes you miss some things. I
laugh because I've been there, done it. I would suggest testing it with a
comparable load, but only lifting it about two or three inches off whatever
it's sitting on. The ground, the bed, the tailgate, whatever. That way,
you'll only be looking at one aspect and making those observances. Although
it would be noteworthy to see how it does during a full travel of its
parameter of rotation. Lift it from as many different positions of the boom
as you can. Know how it acts so if there's a point where it flexes a little
too much, you won't be surprised when making that lift in a real time
scenario. Keep your toes clear!

Steve


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