On 2019-02-19 2:07 p.m., Rod Speed wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 19 February 2019 19:05:24 UTC, JimKÂ* wrote:
Yeah ta, though what do you lift it with once you've grabbed it
Â*with one of those?

Burley bloke or blokette on each side

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIen0LlzMN0

Not really viable with a 400kg flag.

Chain block like used with car engines etc would be better.

no it wouldn't

On 2019-02-19 2:14 p.m., Rod Speed wrote:


"Jim K.." wrote in message
...
"Rod Speed" Wrote in message:


"Clive Arthur" wrote in message
...
On 19/02/2019 16:10, Jim K.. wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
Â* thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
Â* necessary.

I can dig under the front edge if necessary, the sides are flower
Â* beds so digging is limited & the rear edge is tight against the
Â* house.

Any suggestions on how to approach?

TIA

Lidl had some inflatable air bags recently, don't know if that sort of
thing would help.Â* Like these...

https://www.rutlands.co.uk/sp+hand-t...utlands+dk7082


Not going to work putting the flag back on the new mortar.



I rather think it would.

Only if you leave it under the flag. That would work.

Still reckon its better to rent one of those vacuum things
and a chain block using sheer legs, mainly because that
is a lot easier with the initial lift.

no it isn't

On Wed, 20 Feb 2019 08:07:13 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


Not really viable with a 400kg flag.

So, how do you know its weight, senile Mr Know-it-all?


--
pamela about Rot Speed:
"His off the cuff expertise demonstrates how little he knows..."
MID:

"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 19/02/2019 19:03, Jim K.. wrote:
alan_m Wrote in message:
On 19/02/2019 16:10, Jim K.. wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
necessary.

Is it rocking? Ff so just level up the side that appears to drop and
shovel in the mortar on that edge/corner. Bearing in mind the weight
and size I doubt if you need to re-bed the whole slab - gravity will
keep it in place.

Not rocking, it "just" needs raising 50mm to accommodate a new
paving scheme.


Level up each edge

Not that easy to do with 3 of the edges. Makes more
sense to use a vacuum thing and a chain block.

- insert 50mm supporting blocks at each corner

Also not that easy to do.

and check levels.

Pack in some fairly dry mortar very tightly using a short plank to push it
in. Lever up slab again to remove spacer block. Check for level and fill
the gaps left by the spacer blocks with more mortar.

No need to remove the spacer blocks if its done using those,
just use concrete slab spacer blocks and leave them there.

Make sure that you don't bridge your damp proof course where the slab
meets your wall.

Not that easy to do that either.

On Tuesday, February 19, 2019 at 4:10:29 PM UTC, JimK wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
necessary.

I can dig under the front edge if necessary, the sides are flower
beds so digging is limited & the rear edge is tight against the
house.

Any suggestions on how to approach?


Could you use four car jacks, one at each corner, placed in holes dug inderneath. Raise it up, push in mortar etc (keepinng away from jacks) then lower the jacks to get the required position and allow mortar to set. Then remove jacks.

Or, use levers to wedge it at the required position and then pour "flowing grout" into the gap and allow it to harden. Then remove wedges.


R

wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 19 February 2019 19:22:29 UTC, JimK wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIen0LlzMN0
https://www.hss.com/hire/p/vacuum-slab-lift-two-man
�76 for first day.
Upto 150kg
What's it attached to?

There is the option for presumably a crane for repeated use,
but if you watch the video two blokes handle a slab quite easily.

Thats not a 400kg flag.

The vacuum part is battery powered.

On 2019-02-19 2:43 p.m., Rod Speed wrote:


"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 19/02/2019 19:03, Jim K.. wrote:
alan_m Wrote in message:
On 19/02/2019 16:10, Jim K.. wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
Â*Â* thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
Â*Â* necessary.

Is it rocking? Ff so just level up the side that appears to drop and
shovel in the mortar on that edge/corner.Â* Bearing in mind the weight
and size I doubt if you need to re-bed the whole slab - gravity will
keep it in place.

Not rocking, it "just" needs raising 50mm to accommodate a new
Â* paving scheme.


Level up each edge

Not that easy to do with 3 of the edges. Makes more
sense to use a vacuum thing and a chain block.

- insert 50mm supporting blocks at each corner

Also not that easy to do.

and check levels.

Pack in some fairly dry mortar very tightly using a short plank to
push it in. Lever up slab again to remove spacer block. Check for
level and fill the gaps left by the spacer blocks with more mortar.

No need to remove the spacer blocks if its done using those,
just use concrete slab spacer blocks and leave them there.

Make sure that you don't bridge your damp proof course where the slab
meets your wall.

Not that easy to do that either.

yes it is

On 19/02/2019 19:03, Jim K.. wrote:
alan_m Wrote in message:
On 19/02/2019 16:10, Jim K.. wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
necessary.

Is it rocking? Ff so just level up the side that appears to drop and
shovel in the mortar on that edge/corner. Bearing in mind the weight
and size I doubt if you need to re-bed the whole slab - gravity will
keep it in place.

Not rocking, it "just" needs raising 50mm to accommodate a new
paving scheme.

Are your new paving slabs thin enough to go on top of the current one?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 19/02/2019 18:36, John Rumm wrote:
On 19/02/2019 16:55, Robin wrote:
On 19/02/2019 16:39, John Rumm wrote:
On 19/02/2019 16:10, Jim K.. wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
Â* thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
Â* necessary.

That's going to be something like 350kg if its a uniform 4" thick!

I can dig under the front edge if necessary, the sides are flower
Â* beds so digging is limited & the rear edge is tight against the
Â* house.

Any suggestions on how to approach?

Sounds like you will need to lever it up from the front edge
(propping as you go) until you can get it on end, so you can relay
the supporting screed.

To relay it, treat it like you would a large shower tray. Slap a
couple of runners into the screed so the tops stand proud of the wet
mortar. Say a couple of lengths of 40mm waste pipe running front to
back. Get and end of the slab on the runners, and then slide it into
position. Then pull the runners out to drop it onto the mortar bed.
You may need someone on a long level to take the weight off the edge
to get the runner out.



If I've found the right density and done the sums right[1] it's around
360kg. I can see 40mm uPVC taking that when spread evenly over the 2
lengths but wondered about when the slab is only partly on. Fill the
pipes first?

Slap some wooden battens down them if unsure. Having said that, I can
easily stand on a solvent weld pipe without crushing it or making much
impression at all - and that is 100 kg as a point load. You could just
use timber, but the pipe would probably be more slippery.

[1] 0.15 cu m at 2400 kg/cu m



But the underside will be *very* uneven, I can't see waste pipe
surviving, even the thicker solvent weld. It would be scaffold poles for me.

On 19/02/2019 21:09, wrote:
On Tuesday, 19 February 2019 19:22:29 UTC, JimK wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIen0LlzMN0
https://www.hss.com/hire/p/vacuum-slab-lift-two-man
�76 for first day.
Upto 150kg
What's it attached to?

There is the option for presumably a crane for repeated use, but if you watch the video two blokes handle a slab quite easily. The vacuum part is battery powered.


but that looks to me like a 600m flag - perhaps 75 kg. If I'm right the
OP's slab is c. 360kg then it's going to need a lot more than 1 of those
lifters and 2 blokes.


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

John Rumm Wrote in message:
On 19/02/2019 19:03, Jim K.. wrote:
alan_m Wrote in message:
On 19/02/2019 16:10, Jim K.. wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
necessary.

Is it rocking? Ff so just level up the side that appears to drop and
shovel in the mortar on that edge/corner. Bearing in mind the weight
and size I doubt if you need to re-bed the whole slab - gravity will
keep it in place.

Not rocking, it "just" needs raising 50mm to accommodate a new
paving scheme.

Are your new paving slabs thin enough to go on top of the current one?



The new are going adjacent to it.
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Wrote in message:
On Tuesday, February 19, 2019 at 4:10:29 PM UTC, JimK wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
necessary.

I can dig under the front edge if necessary, the sides are flower
beds so digging is limited & the rear edge is tight against the
house.

Any suggestions on how to approach?


Could you use four car jacks, one at each corner, placed in holes dug inderneath. Raise it up, push in mortar etc (keepinng away from jacks) then lower the jacks to get the required position and allow mortar to set. Then remove jacks.

Or, use levers to wedge it at the required position and then pour "flowing grout" into the gap and allow it to harden. Then remove wedges.


R



"Flowing grout" ? Wossat then?
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Wed, 20 Feb 2019 08:14:33 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


Only if you leave it under the flag. That would work.

Still reckon its better to rent one of those vacuum things
and a chain block using sheer legs, mainly because that
is a lot easier with the initial lift.

You NEED psychiatric treatment, you ridiculous "all-knowing" senile asshole!
LOL

--
pamela about Rot Speed:
"His off the cuff expertise demonstrates how little he knows..."
MID:

On Wed, 20 Feb 2019 08:43:04 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


Level up each edge

Not that easy to do

The senile auto-contradicting asshole knows it ALL better ...AGAIN! LMAO

--
Bod addressing abnormal senile quarreller Rot:
"Do you practice arguing with yourself in an empty room?"
MID:

On Wed, 20 Feb 2019 08:44:31 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:

Upto 150kg
What's it attached to?

There is the option for presumably a crane for repeated use,
but if you watch the video two blokes handle a slab quite easily.

That¢s not a 400kg flag.

Yes, it is, you auto-contradicting senile idiot!

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

Rod Speed Wrote in message:
On 2019-02-19 2:43 p.m., Rod Speed wrote:


"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 19/02/2019 19:03, Jim K.. wrote:
alan_m Wrote in message:
On 19/02/2019 16:10, Jim K.. wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
necessary.

Is it rocking? Ff so just level up the side that appears to drop and
shovel in the mortar on that edge/corner. Bearing in mind the weight
and size I doubt if you need to re-bed the whole slab - gravity will
keep it in place.

Not rocking, it "just" needs raising 50mm to accommodate a new
paving scheme.


Level up each edge

Not that easy to do with 3 of the edges. Makes more
sense to use a vacuum thing and a chain block.

- insert 50mm supporting blocks at each corner

Also not that easy to do.

and check levels.

Pack in some fairly dry mortar very tightly using a short plank to
push it in. Lever up slab again to remove spacer block. Check for
level and fill the gaps left by the spacer blocks with more mortar.

No need to remove the spacer blocks if its done using those,
just use concrete slab spacer blocks and leave them there.

Make sure that you don't bridge your damp proof course where the slab
meets your wall.

Not that easy to do that either.

yes it is


You appear to be contradicting #your own# observations woddles...
:-D:-D:-D:-D
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

"Jim K.." wrote in message
news
Rod Speed Wrote in message:
On 2019-02-19 2:43 p.m., Rod Speed wrote:


"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 19/02/2019 19:03, Jim K.. wrote:
alan_m Wrote in message:
On 19/02/2019 16:10, Jim K.. wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
necessary.

Is it rocking? Ff so just level up the side that appears to drop and
shovel in the mortar on that edge/corner. Bearing in mind the weight
and size I doubt if you need to re-bed the whole slab - gravity will
keep it in place.

Not rocking, it "just" needs raising 50mm to accommodate a new
paving scheme.


Level up each edge

Not that easy to do with 3 of the edges. Makes more
sense to use a vacuum thing and a chain block.

- insert 50mm supporting blocks at each corner

Also not that easy to do.

and check levels.

Pack in some fairly dry mortar very tightly using a short plank to
push it in. Lever up slab again to remove spacer block. Check for
level and fill the gaps left by the spacer blocks with more mortar.

No need to remove the spacer blocks if its done using those,
just use concrete slab spacer blocks and leave them there.

Make sure that you don't bridge your damp proof course where the slab
meets your wall.

Not that easy to do that either.

yes it is


You appear to be contradicting #your own# observations woddles...
:-D:-D:-D:-D

Then you need new glasses, ****wit.

Its not that easy to ensure that you don't bride the damp proof course
if it happens to be just above the flag before you move the flag.

On 19/02/2019 22:13, Jim K.. wrote:
John Rumm Wrote in message:
On 19/02/2019 19:03, Jim K.. wrote:
alan_m Wrote in message:
On 19/02/2019 16:10, Jim K.. wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
necessary.

Is it rocking? Ff so just level up the side that appears to drop and
shovel in the mortar on that edge/corner. Bearing in mind the weight
and size I doubt if you need to re-bed the whole slab - gravity will
keep it in place.

Not rocking, it "just" needs raising 50mm to accommodate a new
paving scheme.

Are your new paving slabs thin enough to go on top of the current one?



The new are going adjacent to it.

I was suggesting that rather than try and lift the existing one by 50mm,
use it as a base and slab right over it. So once the new slabs are down,
the original is covered by them.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 19/02/2019 22:16, Robin wrote:
On 19/02/2019 21:09, wrote:
On Tuesday, 19 February 2019 19:22:29 UTC, JimKÂ* wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIen0LlzMN0
https://www.hss.com/hire/p/vacuum-slab-lift-two-man
�76 for first day.
Upto 150kg
What's it attachedÂ* to?

There is the option for presumably a crane for repeated use, but if
you watch the video two blokes handle a slab quite easily. The vacuum
part is battery powered.


but that looks to me like a 600m flag - perhaps 75 kg.Â* If I'm right the
OP's slab is c. 360kg then it's going to need a lot more than 1 of those
lifters and 2 blokes.

Indeed - at that weight its more like shifting heavy machine tools in a
workshop. Lots of small movements with lots of leverage, and propping /
supporting at every stage.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:

Indeed - at that weight its more like shifting heavy machine tools in a
workshop. Lots of small movements with lots of leverage, and propping /
supporting at every stage.

An issue which hasn't been mentioned yet is the strength of the
slab. Is there is any danger of it fracturing under its own
weight if only supported at the edges whilst being moved?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

"Rod Speed" Wrote in message:


"Jim K.." wrote in message
news
Rod Speed Wrote in message:
On 2019-02-19 2:43 p.m., Rod Speed wrote:


"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 19/02/2019 19:03, Jim K.. wrote:
alan_m Wrote in message:
On 19/02/2019 16:10, Jim K.. wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
necessary.

Is it rocking? Ff so just level up the side that appears to drop and
shovel in the mortar on that edge/corner. Bearing in mind the weight
and size I doubt if you need to re-bed the whole slab - gravity will
keep it in place.

Not rocking, it "just" needs raising 50mm to accommodate a new
paving scheme.


Level up each edge

Not that easy to do with 3 of the edges. Makes more
sense to use a vacuum thing and a chain block.

- insert 50mm supporting blocks at each corner

Also not that easy to do.

and check levels.

Pack in some fairly dry mortar very tightly using a short plank to
push it in. Lever up slab again to remove spacer block. Check for
level and fill the gaps left by the spacer blocks with more mortar.

No need to remove the spacer blocks if its done using those,
just use concrete slab spacer blocks and leave them there.

Make sure that you don't bridge your damp proof course where the slab
meets your wall.

Not that easy to do that either.

yes it is


You appear to be contradicting #your own# observations woddles...
:-D:-D:-D:-D

Then you need new glasses, ****wit.

Nope, you need new wits.... Have a look FFS

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

John Rumm Wrote in message:
On 19/02/2019 22:13, Jim K.. wrote:
John Rumm Wrote in message:
On 19/02/2019 19:03, Jim K.. wrote:
alan_m Wrote in message:
On 19/02/2019 16:10, Jim K.. wrote:
I need to lift a huge yorkstone flag, approx 4ft by 4 ft by 4 inch
thick, by about 2 inches, & rebed on mortar etc as
necessary.

Is it rocking? Ff so just level up the side that appears to drop and
shovel in the mortar on that edge/corner. Bearing in mind the weight
and size I doubt if you need to re-bed the whole slab - gravity will
keep it in place.

Not rocking, it "just" needs raising 50mm to accommodate a new
paving scheme.

Are your new paving slabs thin enough to go on top of the current one?



The new are going adjacent to it.

I was suggesting that rather than try and lift the existing one by 50mm,
use it as a base and slab right over it. So once the new slabs are down,
the original is covered by them.

Yes I got that.
The flag is a feature to be retained.
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Chris J Dixon Wrote in message:
John Rumm wrote:

Indeed - at that weight its more like shifting heavy machine tools in a
workshop. Lots of small movements with lots of leverage, and propping /
supporting at every stage.

An issue which hasn't been mentioned yet is the strength of the
slab. Is there is any danger of it fracturing under its own
weight if only supported at the edges whilst being moved?

Chris

I'd be rather surprised if it broke under its own weight, but I
think excess lifting strain concentrated in small areas could do
it eventually, though it would have to be a few tons of force (or
a pre-existing fracture line/fault)... I shall take it steady &
spread out my tackle! :-)
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Wed, 20 Feb 2019 13:33:55 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:

You appear to be contradicting #your own# observations woddles...
:-D:-D:-D:-D

Then you need new glasses, ****wit.

Its not that easy to ensure that you don't bride the damp proof course
if it happens to be just above the flag before you move the flag.

What IS sure is that you are an obnoxious trolling piece of senile ****,
Rot!

--
Sqwertz to Rot Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:

Chris J Dixon wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

Indeed - at that weight its more like shifting heavy machine tools in a
workshop. Lots of small movements with lots of leverage, and propping /
supporting at every stage.

An issue which hasn't been mentioned yet is the strength of the
slab. Is there is any danger of it fracturing under its own
weight if only supported at the edges whilst being moved?

Chris
Unlikely given its so thick. And easy to be safe by using a vacuum lifter.

On 20/02/2019 08:33, Chris J Dixon wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

Indeed - at that weight its more like shifting heavy machine tools in a
workshop. Lots of small movements with lots of leverage, and propping /
supporting at every stage.

An issue which hasn't been mentioned yet is the strength of the
slab. Is there is any danger of it fracturing under its own
weight if only supported at the edges whilst being moved?

Chris

Its thicker than many similar cap stones in e.g. passage graves.

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-ne...111812543.html


--
€œIt is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established
authorities are wrong.€�

ۥ Voltaire, The Age of Louis XIV

On 20 Feb 2019 09:46:36 GMT, BillD, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote:


Unlikely given it¢s so thick. And easy to be safe by using a vacuum lifter.

It can't be as thick as you though, senile Rot!

--
Bill Wright to Rot Speed:
"That confirms my opinion that you are a despicable little ****."
MID: