On 27/01/2019 19:48, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 19:36:25 +0000, ARW
wrote:

On 27/01/2019 19:20, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 19:09:45 +0000, ARW
wrote:

On 27/01/2019 11:13, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 10:55:03 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Also of course if you get it wrong the cb will ping and there are not that
many choices to try. I know it sounds daft but one has to have fun and you
have also proved the cb works as well!

Brian

Er! The cables look like nothing I have seen in a 2 Way switch
arrangement.

But they look like 50% of the thousands of two way switches I have seen.

RGB?


Ones exposure to domestic wiring is a trifle limited, but I have not
come across those colours in a home before.

Whatever the colour, cables do not just "drop out".



RYB.

I did not watch them on TV.

I stand corrected. Apologies, although I must admit I saw the insides
of a lot more TV sets than light switches :-)

What happens if the phases are switched, does the room go darker in
the daytime?


It's single phase. There is no phase to switch/short circuit to.






--
Adam

On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 20:15:55 +0000, ARW
wrote:

On 27/01/2019 19:48, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 19:36:25 +0000, ARW
wrote:

On 27/01/2019 19:20, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 19:09:45 +0000, ARW
wrote:

On 27/01/2019 11:13, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 10:55:03 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Also of course if you get it wrong the cb will ping and there are not that
many choices to try. I know it sounds daft but one has to have fun and you
have also proved the cb works as well!

Brian

Er! The cables look like nothing I have seen in a 2 Way switch
arrangement.

But they look like 50% of the thousands of two way switches I have seen.

RGB?


Ones exposure to domestic wiring is a trifle limited, but I have not
come across those colours in a home before.

Whatever the colour, cables do not just "drop out".



RYB.

I did not watch them on TV.

I stand corrected. Apologies, although I must admit I saw the insides
of a lot more TV sets than light switches :-)

What happens if the phases are switched, does the room go darker in
the daytime?


It's single phase. There is no phase to switch/short circuit to.

Single phase is brown and blue.

Three phase is brown black and grey, or in old money RYB

If on an RYB connected motor, I switch to RBY, then the motor runs the
other way.

Logic suggests that with RYB cables, motors can be made to run
backwards, vacuum cleaners will blow, fridges will heat food and light
bulbs will emit dark instead of sucking it.


AB

On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 07:14:47 +1100, "Steven" wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message ...
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 06:43:14 +1100, "Steven" wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 17:35:06 GMT, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

It happens that Roger Hayter formulated :
The contact failed because either;

- it was never screwed up properly (and this would not stop it working
for an uncertain period);

- vibration from switching caused the screw to unscrew;

- or the copper gradually deformed under pressure;

It looks to me as if the copper core failed and snapped, leaving the
copper part still in the terminal. Possibly the installer nicked the
copper as he stripped the insulation and it subsequently snapped. Poor
or careless technique.

Probably repeated in other parts of the installation.

But it isn't actually viable to completely redo all the terminals in the
entire house now. Given that the wiring standards are fail safe by
design, it make more sense to fix any others that do fail when they do.

You steamin' great pillock! Fail safe by design?? No such bloody
thing unless you are working to ATEX standards.

Have you seen a glass rod conduct electricity to the point where it
melts and arcs.

Doesn't happen in the sort of house the fault was in.

The laws of physics are universal, they apply in everyones house.


Have you examined insulation that has been drenched and suddenly
become conductive.

The RCBO system fails safe in that situation.

No it does not.

Wothout an earth path the MCB has no clue whether the couple of kW is
a genuine heating element or a L-N leakage path.

Isnt going to happen with that 2 way light switch circuit.

Likewise although a switch alone is perfectly capable of providing an
audio visual indication of a gas build up, a loose connection will
give the indication a lot earlier and with a higher level of success.

Yeah, yeah, the entire house should be completely rewired now that that
one wire was clearly not as competently done as it should have been.

Only the circuit that was done when that switch was installed. I would
hope that it was an "add on".


Easy to see why no one would employ you in britain and you had to
move to ireland and then even they noticed how unemployable you are.

I am actually employed in Britain, on a much higher salary than I was
with my previous British company.

AB

"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message ...
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 07:14:47 +1100, "Steven" wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message ...
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 06:43:14 +1100, "Steven" wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 17:35:06 GMT, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

It happens that Roger Hayter formulated :
The contact failed because either;

- it was never screwed up properly (and this would not stop it
working
for an uncertain period);

- vibration from switching caused the screw to unscrew;

- or the copper gradually deformed under pressure;

It looks to me as if the copper core failed and snapped, leaving the
copper part still in the terminal. Possibly the installer nicked the
copper as he stripped the insulation and it subsequently snapped. Poor
or careless technique.

Probably repeated in other parts of the installation.

But it isn't actually viable to completely redo all the terminals in the
entire house now. Given that the wiring standards are fail safe by
design, it make more sense to fix any others that do fail when they do.

You steamin' great pillock! Fail safe by design?? No such bloody
thing unless you are working to ATEX standards.

Have you seen a glass rod conduct electricity to the point where it
melts and arcs.

Doesn't happen in the sort of house the fault was in.

The laws of physics are universal, they apply in everyones house.

There isnt a high enough voltage in that house to melt any glass rod.

Have you examined insulation that has been drenched and suddenly
become conductive.

The RCBO system fails safe in that situation.

No it does not.

Wothout an earth path the MCB has no clue whether the couple of kW is
a genuine heating element or a L-N leakage path.

Isnt going to happen with that 2 way light switch circuit.

Likewise although a switch alone is perfectly capable of providing an
audio visual indication of a gas build up, a loose connection will
give the indication a lot earlier and with a higher level of success.

Yeah, yeah, the entire house should be completely rewired now that that
one wire was clearly not as competently done as it should have been.

Only the circuit that was done when that switch was installed.

Which was almost certainly done when the whole
house was wired when it was built in the 1980s.

I would
hope that it was an "add on".

It wasn't.


Easy to see why no one would employ you in britain and you had to
move to ireland and then even they noticed how unemployable you are.

I am actually employed in Britain, on a much higher salary than I was
with my previous British company.

Only until they too notice how completely unemployable you are,
just like the Irish did so quickly.

On 27/01/2019 19:09, ARW wrote:
On 27/01/2019 11:13, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 10:55:03 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Also of course if you get it wrong the cb will ping and there are not
that
many choices to try. I know it sounds daft but one has to have fun
and you
have also proved the cb works as well!

Brian

Er! The cables look like nothing I have seen in a 2 Way switch
arrangement.

But they look like 50% of the thousands of two way switches I have seen.





My 1976-built house has Red+Yellow+Blue 3+E wiring for the
2-way switching and the (now disconnected) Wired thermostat too.

It did however have a borrowed neutral which I have fixed.

On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 07:42:45 +1100, "Steven" wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message ...
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 07:14:47 +1100, "Steven" wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message ...
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 06:43:14 +1100, "Steven" wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 17:35:06 GMT, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

It happens that Roger Hayter formulated :
The contact failed because either;

- it was never screwed up properly (and this would not stop it
working
for an uncertain period);

- vibration from switching caused the screw to unscrew;

- or the copper gradually deformed under pressure;

It looks to me as if the copper core failed and snapped, leaving the
copper part still in the terminal. Possibly the installer nicked the
copper as he stripped the insulation and it subsequently snapped. Poor
or careless technique.

Probably repeated in other parts of the installation.

But it isn't actually viable to completely redo all the terminals in the
entire house now. Given that the wiring standards are fail safe by
design, it make more sense to fix any others that do fail when they do.

You steamin' great pillock! Fail safe by design?? No such bloody
thing unless you are working to ATEX standards.

Have you seen a glass rod conduct electricity to the point where it
melts and arcs.

Doesn't happen in the sort of house the fault was in.

The laws of physics are universal, they apply in everyones house.

There isnt a high enough voltage in that house to melt any glass rod.

There is, I have seen it, and repeated the event under "controlled "
conditions.

I have also measured the Voltage on the old RS build your own dropper
elements. Start to take a few hundre mA and you could measre the
Voltage on the Ceramic insulator.

Have you examined insulation that has been drenched and suddenly
become conductive.

The RCBO system fails safe in that situation.

No it does not.

Wothout an earth path the MCB has no clue whether the couple of kW is
a genuine heating element or a L-N leakage path.

Isnt going to happen with that 2 way light switch circuit.

Likewise although a switch alone is perfectly capable of providing an
audio visual indication of a gas build up, a loose connection will
give the indication a lot earlier and with a higher level of success.

Yeah, yeah, the entire house should be completely rewired now that that
one wire was clearly not as competently done as it should have been.

Only the circuit that was done when that switch was installed.

Which was almost certainly done when the whole
house was wired when it was built in the 1980s.

I would
hope that it was an "add on".

It wasn't.

Choose your insurance carefully!



Easy to see why no one would employ you in britain and you had to
move to ireland and then even they noticed how unemployable you are.

I am actually employed in Britain, on a much higher salary than I was
with my previous British company.

Only until they too notice how completely unemployable you are,
just like the Irish did so quickly.

On my next foray to Ireland I most certainly will not be looking to
start work!

Britain might not see too much of me either you will no doubt be glad
to hear, but if I need to depart fairly soon, I would have every
confidence that light switches will be the least of your worries.

AB

On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 06:07:06 +1100, Steven, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote:

Not when there are 6 wires involved, a common config used in that situation.

DIY or professional, there should be no uncertainties with electrical
power.

There isnt when there are clearly 6 wires involved and one of them
has clearly come adrift from where it would be in a 6 wire config.

In auto-contradicting mode again, senile Ozzietard? LOL
--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing senile Rot:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 05:40:06 +1100, Stevencantankerous trolling geezer Rot
Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


In his case there is nothing like that, just one terminal not fully screwed
in.

YOU are simply terminally screwed, senile Ozzie cretin! LOL

--
dennis@home to know-it-all Rot Speed:
"You really should stop commenting on things you know nothing about."
Message-ID:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 05:42:57 +1100, Steven, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote:



Because that screw had not been fully tightened initially.

NO screw could be as untightened as the one in your senile head, Ozzietard!

--
Norman Wells addressing senile Rot:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:

On 27/01/2019 19:17:18, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 06:07:06 +1100, "Steven" wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 14:15:40 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 27/01/2019 10:46, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 10:36:11 +0000, ss wrote:

Light switch 2 gang both are 2-way.
The stair switch works ok at the top of stairs, at bottom stairs it
only
works dependent on the position of the upstair switch.
I opened up and there appears to be a loose wire, can someone please
confirm that the yellow wire is needing reconnected as per image.

https://imgur.com/a/pnUTTWQ

No I cannot anyway! Try prayer, or an oija board.

https://circuitdigest.com/sites/defa...ire-method.png

That is a deprecated way of wiring a two way switched system, and also
as evidenced from the use of 3&E in the OPs photo, not what is being
used here.

The more appropriate diagram would be the second one in this section:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...tching_circuit

Hard to say how it is wired,

But it is clear that 6 wires are involved, so it can't be your config.

I have never seen yellow used in a
lighting circuit, I can only assume the cable was left over after some
ancient three phase control project.

The piccy strongly suggests further investigation is needed, not just
stick the wire in what looks like an appropriate hole and screw it up.

Not when there are 6 wires involved, a common config used in that situation.

DIY or professional, there should be no uncertainties with electrical
power.

There isnt when there are clearly 6 wires involved and one of them
has clearly come adrift from where it would be in a 6 wire config.

Er, sorry I didn't think it necessary to explain. One two way switch
= 3 wires Two two way switches = six wires, or maybe five and a link.

Anyway if I'm forgiven for my overestimation of your abilities perhaps
you would care to use this.

http://www.math.com/students/calcula...urce/basic.htm

AB

Why is it obsessive, fanatic remain supporters abuse those around them
more than anyone else?

On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 21:43:45 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 27/01/2019 19:17:18, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 06:07:06 +1100, "Steven" wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 14:15:40 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 27/01/2019 10:46, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 10:36:11 +0000, ss wrote:

Light switch 2 gang both are 2-way.
The stair switch works ok at the top of stairs, at bottom stairs it
only
works dependent on the position of the upstair switch.
I opened up and there appears to be a loose wire, can someone please
confirm that the yellow wire is needing reconnected as per image.

https://imgur.com/a/pnUTTWQ

No I cannot anyway! Try prayer, or an oija board.

https://circuitdigest.com/sites/defa...ire-method.png

That is a deprecated way of wiring a two way switched system, and also
as evidenced from the use of 3&E in the OPs photo, not what is being
used here.

The more appropriate diagram would be the second one in this section:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...tching_circuit

Hard to say how it is wired,

But it is clear that 6 wires are involved, so it can't be your config.

I have never seen yellow used in a
lighting circuit, I can only assume the cable was left over after some
ancient three phase control project.

The piccy strongly suggests further investigation is needed, not just
stick the wire in what looks like an appropriate hole and screw it up.

Not when there are 6 wires involved, a common config used in that situation.

DIY or professional, there should be no uncertainties with electrical
power.

There isnt when there are clearly 6 wires involved and one of them
has clearly come adrift from where it would be in a 6 wire config.

Er, sorry I didn't think it necessary to explain. One two way switch
= 3 wires Two two way switches = six wires, or maybe five and a link.

Anyway if I'm forgiven for my overestimation of your abilities perhaps
you would care to use this.

http://www.math.com/students/calcula...urce/basic.htm

AB

Why is it obsessive, fanatic remain supporters abuse those around them
more than anyone else?

It isn't abuse. I am merely trying to assist. Some people can be so
overawed with the technology that they overlook the fact that if one
switch has three wires then two switches must
have....................!


How many times do I have to tell you lot, I did not vote remain. If
there is a referendum I simply will not vote this time either.

Come to think of it I am not on the electors register anyway, I have
refused to participate in the farce.

I trust you will not back down and tow Europes line, you must play
your part like a true Brit. You fully deserve a no deal Brexit. Show
Europe you mean it, petition your MP.

You are no doubt still clueless over the whole affair, but any UK
derived income you are goind to get has had a fair proportion
squandered in the name of Brexit. The waste is unbelievable, enough to
keep hundreds of migrant families on benefits for a lifetime :-)

Your tabloid rubbish doesn't report that though does it?

AB

"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message ...
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 07:42:45 +1100, "Steven" wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message ...
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 07:14:47 +1100, "Steven" wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message ...
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 06:43:14 +1100, "Steven" wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote
in
message ...
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 17:35:06 GMT, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

It happens that Roger Hayter formulated :
The contact failed because either;

- it was never screwed up properly (and this would not stop it
working
for an uncertain period);

- vibration from switching caused the screw to unscrew;

- or the copper gradually deformed under pressure;

It looks to me as if the copper core failed and snapped, leaving the
copper part still in the terminal. Possibly the installer nicked the
copper as he stripped the insulation and it subsequently snapped.
Poor
or careless technique.

Probably repeated in other parts of the installation.

But it isn't actually viable to completely redo all the terminals in
the
entire house now. Given that the wiring standards are fail safe by
design, it make more sense to fix any others that do fail when they
do.

You steamin' great pillock! Fail safe by design?? No such bloody
thing unless you are working to ATEX standards.

Have you seen a glass rod conduct electricity to the point where it
melts and arcs.

Doesn't happen in the sort of house the fault was in.

The laws of physics are universal, they apply in everyones house.

There isnt a high enough voltage in that house to melt any glass rod.

There is, I have seen it,

Not in normal houses you havent.

and repeated the event under "controlled "
conditions.

I have also measured the Voltage on the old RS build your own dropper
elements.

Not used in normal houses built in the 1980s like that one was.

Start to take a few hundre mA and you could measre the
Voltage on the Ceramic insulator.

Have you examined insulation that has been drenched and suddenly
become conductive.

The RCBO system fails safe in that situation.

No it does not.

Wothout an earth path the MCB has no clue whether the couple of kW is
a genuine heating element or a L-N leakage path.

Isnt going to happen with that 2 way light switch circuit.

Likewise although a switch alone is perfectly capable of providing an
audio visual indication of a gas build up, a loose connection will
give the indication a lot earlier and with a higher level of success.

Yeah, yeah, the entire house should be completely rewired now that that
one wire was clearly not as competently done as it should have been.

Only the circuit that was done when that switch was installed.

Which was almost certainly done when the whole
house was wired when it was built in the 1980s.

I would
hope that it was an "add on".

It wasn't.

Choose your insurance carefully!

Don't need to.

Easy to see why no one would employ you in britain and you had to
move to ireland and then even they noticed how unemployable you are.

I am actually employed in Britain, on a much higher salary than I was
with my previous British company.

Only until they too notice how completely unemployable you are,
just like the Irish did so quickly.

On my next foray to Ireland I most certainly will not be looking to
start work!

Just as well given that they have noticed how completely unemployable you
are.

Britain might not see too much of me either you will no doubt be glad
to hear, but if I need to depart fairly soon, I would have every
confidence that light switches will be the least of your worries.

Britain will do fine whatever the brexit result, and if it stays in the EU
too.

On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 06:53:36 +1100, Steven, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote:

Quality job or not, every part of that circuit would be checked were I
to have responsibility for the property or work.

Yes, you actually are stupid enough to redo every single termination in
the entire house to ensure that no other wire was nicked at installation.

Hey, senile Rot, tell him about your NEWEST nym "2987fr", so he can put you
in his killfile again! LMAO!

--
Norman Wells addressing senile Rot:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 09:06:08 +1100, "Steven" wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message ...
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 07:42:45 +1100, "Steven" wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message ...
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 07:14:47 +1100, "Steven" wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message ...
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 06:43:14 +1100, "Steven" wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote
in
message ...
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 17:35:06 GMT, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

It happens that Roger Hayter formulated :
The contact failed because either;

- it was never screwed up properly (and this would not stop it
working
for an uncertain period);

- vibration from switching caused the screw to unscrew;

- or the copper gradually deformed under pressure;

It looks to me as if the copper core failed and snapped, leaving the
copper part still in the terminal. Possibly the installer nicked the
copper as he stripped the insulation and it subsequently snapped.
Poor
or careless technique.

Probably repeated in other parts of the installation.

But it isn't actually viable to completely redo all the terminals in
the
entire house now. Given that the wiring standards are fail safe by
design, it make more sense to fix any others that do fail when they
do.

You steamin' great pillock! Fail safe by design?? No such bloody
thing unless you are working to ATEX standards.

Have you seen a glass rod conduct electricity to the point where it
melts and arcs.

Doesn't happen in the sort of house the fault was in.

The laws of physics are universal, they apply in everyones house.

There isnt a high enough voltage in that house to melt any glass rod.

There is, I have seen it,

Not in normal houses you havent.

Want a bet?

and repeated the event under "controlled "
conditions.

I have also measured the Voltage on the old RS build your own dropper
elements.

Not used in normal houses built in the 1980s like that one was.

Oh yes they were. I finished using them in the late 1970's, but they
were pretty substantial so I would expect them to last ten years or
more. The homeowner was usually ignorant of their use, but they had a
quality job. Sadly they fell by the wayside with BEAB.

Start to take a few hundre mA and you could measre the
Voltage on the Ceramic insulator.

Have you examined insulation that has been drenched and suddenly
become conductive.

The RCBO system fails safe in that situation.

No it does not.

Wothout an earth path the MCB has no clue whether the couple of kW is
a genuine heating element or a L-N leakage path.

Isnt going to happen with that 2 way light switch circuit.

Likewise although a switch alone is perfectly capable of providing an
audio visual indication of a gas build up, a loose connection will
give the indication a lot earlier and with a higher level of success.

Yeah, yeah, the entire house should be completely rewired now that that
one wire was clearly not as competently done as it should have been.

Only the circuit that was done when that switch was installed.

Which was almost certainly done when the whole
house was wired when it was built in the 1980s.

I would
hope that it was an "add on".

It wasn't.

Choose your insurance carefully!

Don't need to.

As you wish, I hope you never have to study the small print.

Easy to see why no one would employ you in britain and you had to
move to ireland and then even they noticed how unemployable you are.

I am actually employed in Britain, on a much higher salary than I was
with my previous British company.

Only until they too notice how completely unemployable you are,
just like the Irish did so quickly.

On my next foray to Ireland I most certainly will not be looking to
start work!

Just as well given that they have noticed how completely unemployable you
are.

Britain might not see too much of me either you will no doubt be glad
to hear, but if I need to depart fairly soon, I would have every
confidence that light switches will be the least of your worries.

Britain will do fine whatever the brexit result, and if it stays in the EU
too.

I am sure it will, serenity and happiness all the way! Except maybe
that the countries thugs will not be happy at the death of only one
MP.

Methinks "fine" is not quite the word.

From this point, for Britain, everything is bad, some options worse
than others.

If you want my advice you will go for no deal, but as I can't be
bothered voting myself, please dont feel obliged to moan at your MP on
my behalf.

AB

On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 06:58:03 +1100, Steven, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote:



I didn't say that.

Yes you did, just a moment ago, to me.

To which one of your three nyms did he say it? To Rot, to Steven or to
2987fr? BG

--
"Anonymous" to trolling senile Rot Speed:
"You can **** off as you know less than pig **** you sad
little ignorant ****."
MID:

On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 07:42:45 +1100, Steven, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote:


Only until they too notice how completely unemployable you are

Oh, the IRONY! LOL

--
dennis@home to know-it-all Rot Speed:
"You really should stop commenting on things you know nothing about."
Message-ID:

On 27/01/2019 21:58:37, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 21:43:45 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 27/01/2019 19:17:18, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 06:07:06 +1100, "Steven" wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 14:15:40 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 27/01/2019 10:46, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 10:36:11 +0000, ss wrote:

Light switch 2 gang both are 2-way.
The stair switch works ok at the top of stairs, at bottom stairs it
only
works dependent on the position of the upstair switch.
I opened up and there appears to be a loose wire, can someone please
confirm that the yellow wire is needing reconnected as per image.

https://imgur.com/a/pnUTTWQ

No I cannot anyway! Try prayer, or an oija board.

https://circuitdigest.com/sites/defa...ire-method.png

That is a deprecated way of wiring a two way switched system, and also
as evidenced from the use of 3&E in the OPs photo, not what is being
used here.

The more appropriate diagram would be the second one in this section:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...tching_circuit

Hard to say how it is wired,

But it is clear that 6 wires are involved, so it can't be your config.

I have never seen yellow used in a
lighting circuit, I can only assume the cable was left over after some
ancient three phase control project.

The piccy strongly suggests further investigation is needed, not just
stick the wire in what looks like an appropriate hole and screw it up.

Not when there are 6 wires involved, a common config used in that situation.

DIY or professional, there should be no uncertainties with electrical
power.

There isnt when there are clearly 6 wires involved and one of them
has clearly come adrift from where it would be in a 6 wire config.

Er, sorry I didn't think it necessary to explain. One two way switch
= 3 wires Two two way switches = six wires, or maybe five and a link.

Anyway if I'm forgiven for my overestimation of your abilities perhaps
you would care to use this.

http://www.math.com/students/calcula...urce/basic.htm

AB

Why is it obsessive, fanatic remain supporters abuse those around them
more than anyone else?

It isn't abuse.

That's the issue, you're in denial it is abuse.

On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 09:06:08 +1100, Steven, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote:

Britain might not see too much of me either you will no doubt be glad
to hear, but if I need to depart fairly soon, I would have every
confidence that light switches will be the least of your worries.

Britain will do fine whatever the brexit result, and if it stays in the EU
too.

That's not even what many Brexiters claim, senile Ozzietard! BTW, don't you
have some Australian issues to worry about, you perverted 85-year-old senile
sow? BG

--
dennis@home to know-it-all Rot Speed:
"You really should stop commenting on things you know nothing about."
Message-ID:

On 27/01/2019 10:46, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 10:36:11 +0000, ss wrote:

Light switch 2 gang both are 2-way.
The stair switch works ok at the top of stairs, at bottom stairs it only
works dependent on the position of the upstair switch.
I opened up and there appears to be a loose wire, can someone please
confirm that the yellow wire is needing reconnected as per image.

https://imgur.com/a/pnUTTWQ

No I cannot anyway! Try prayer, or an oija board.

https://circuitdigest.com/sites/defa...ire-method.png

That is a deprecated way of wiring a two way switched system, and also
as evidenced from the use of 3&E in the OPs photo, not what is being
used here.

The more appropriate diagram would be the second one in this section:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...tching_circuit




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sunday, 27 January 2019 17:52:55 UTC, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:


The wire fell out when the switch was opened for examination.

Nothing out of the ordinary.


Methinks your approach to electrical work is fundamentally flawed if
you consider cables falling out an "ordinary" event.

AB

It is an ordinary event unfortunately. The approach to electrical work that's fudamentally flawed is obviously that of the installer, not the OP here.


NT

On Sunday, 27 January 2019 18:56:59 UTC, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 05:40:06 +1100, "Steven" wrote:
"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message ...

The solution, rejection and a full recal.

A philosophy that has served me very well over the years and prevented
many serious failiures in my other jobs.

I have yet to see anything wrong with my approach.

Yes, you actually are that stupid. His setup does require 6
wires and clearly the yellow wire had come adrift and all
it needed was to put it back where it had come out of.

Some work is shoddy

At least you do seem to have a level of awareness.

Shoddy work can lead to unreliability and danger. There are acceptable
standards to any job, there are no excuses for not adhering to them.

I've encountered plenty of excuses for bad work. Have you not?


and potentially hazardous because of the location of the wiring I
recently found a lghting cable twisted together and insulated with
Silicone rubber. There were other problems with the same system so it
wasn't too much of a surprise. Removing the plasterboard ceiling to
find it wasn't with the intention of investigating the cable though,
it was for a totally different reason. My risk assessment of the
system did not conclude that removing a ceiling under a flat roof was
going to be worthwhile.

In his case there is nothing like that, just one terminal not fully screwed
in.

If it was a quality job, all the terminals would not be screwed in.

?

As only one terminal is unscrewed in the system, are we to assume that
Schrodingers pussy tipped the balance?

?

Quality job or not, every part of that circuit would be checked were I
to have responsibility for the property or work.

but you don't

The risks were low, but who's to know what load of flammables might
have been left in the recess.

Yeah, best to demolish the house and start again on a bare block of land.

What makes you say that? It's just exaggeration, which is another word
for lying.

it's called reductio ad absurdum.

Are you a Brexiter?

no relevance


NT

On Sunday, 27 January 2019 19:07:18 UTC, Steven wrote:
"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message ...

DIY or professional, there should be no uncertainties with electrical
power.

There are. Welcome to the real world.

On Sunday, 27 January 2019 20:00:18 UTC, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 06:43:14 +1100, "Steven" wrote:

But it isn't actually viable to completely redo all the terminals in the
entire house now. Given that the wiring standards are fail safe by
design, it make more sense to fix any others that do fail when they do.

You steamin' great pillock! Fail safe by design?? No such bloody
thing unless you are working to ATEX standards.

Have you seen a glass rod conduct electricity to the point where it
melts and arcs.

it's how Nernst lamps work, though most are ceramic rather than glass

Have you examined insulation that has been drenched and suddenly
become conductive.

paper based insulation being especially vulnerable to this

Wothout an earth path the MCB has no clue whether the couple of kW is
a genuine heating element or a L-N leakage path.

with an earth it's similarly clueless

Likewise although a switch alone is perfectly capable of providing an
audio visual indication of a gas build up,

??

a loose connection will
give the indication a lot earlier and with a higher level of success.

???


NT

On Sunday, 27 January 2019 21:58:40 UTC, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 21:43:45 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

Why is it obsessive, fanatic remain supporters abuse those around them
more than anyone else?

It isn't abuse. I am merely trying to assist. Some people can be so
overawed with the technology that they overlook the fact that if one
switch has three wires then two switches must
have....................!

could be 2 or 3 wires in the 2nd switch, often there are more.


NT

On 28/01/2019 00:55, wrote:
On Sunday, 27 January 2019 19:07:18 UTC, Steven wrote:
"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message ...

DIY or professional, there should be no uncertainties with electrical
power.

There are. Welcome to the real world.


That's gonna shock him.

On 27/01/2019 20:23, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:

Single phase is brown and blue.

Three phase is brown black and grey, or in old money RYB

But brown black and grey does not necessarily indicate a three phase
circuit.

Three phase circuits USE brown black and grey conductors, or in old
money RYB but it's not exclusively used for 3 phase circuits.

As others have pointed out the preferred way of wiring 2 way switches is
with 3 core and earth cable as in
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...tching_circuit

If you go and buy some 3 core and earth it will have brown black and
grey conductors (or red, yellow and blue if you'd bought it several
years ago). I'm confident that you won't find anyone selling it with one
blue and two brown conductors, so brown black and grey is what you use
to wire up two way switches in the currently preferred way.

To be strictly compliant I suppose the blue and yellow conductors in the
OP's switch should have been provided with a bit of red sleeving to
indicate switched live but it's not unusual for it to be omitted.

In article ,
charles wrote:
the three core (+ECC) cable I bought in about 1980 (for 2way switching of
lights) certainly had yellow as one of its cores. Blue & white for the
other two.

Older cable was usually red blue yellow. The old three phase colours.

--
*Half the people in the world are below average.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

I think for the time being I'll stick to JB's. I really do like the
challenge of trying to match the holes to the cables in those round
boxes.


Come to think of it, a 30A JB was not included in the test to
destruction. I would guess that the cables would go first.


AB




Too easy to cross thread the screw in the slotted terminals.

If you follow the wiring diagram John pointed to in the Wiki, then the colours are immaterial as they all end up as switched lives and both black and grey should be sleeved brown. The only need for the colours is to differentiate which core is which making sure the same wire connects COM to COM, L1 to L1 and L2 to L2. The same applies if you are using the old RYB 3 core + E.

Richard

On 28/01/2019 10:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
charles wrote:
the three core (+ECC) cable I bought in about 1980 (for 2way switching of
lights) certainly had yellow as one of its cores. Blue & white for the
other two.

Older cable was usually red blue yellow. The old three phase colours.

I still have some left on the end of my reel of 1.5mm^2 3&E... :

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...onnections.jpg




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 28/01/2019 15:03, Tricky Dicky wrote:

If you follow the wiring diagram John pointed to in the Wiki, then
the colours are immaterial as they all end up as switched lives and
both black and grey should be sleeved brown. The only need for the
colours is to differentiate which core is which making sure the same
wire connects COM to COM, L1 to L1 and L2 to L2. The same applies if
you are using the old RYB 3 core + E.

I would say that if using Blue + Brown for a switch drop wire, then the
blue should be sleeved brown since you are not using it for its normal
purpose.

However using 3&E, all the cores have "live" colours[1], and so only
need over sleeving should one be re-purposed as a neutral.

[1] Although there is an argument for addition sleeving if being used in
and installation that mixes old and new colour schemes.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 15:21:22 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
Hard to say how it is wired, I have never seen yellow used in a
lighting circuit, I can only assume the cable was left over after some
ancient three phase control project.

Triple and earth is often used domestically. Two way lighting circuits and
thermostats. Two lighting circuits on the same switch to the same room,
and so on. Anywhere where it is more economical.

Thank you, I have not come across this. All the switch wiring I have
dealt with was using red and black or the new stuff.

I did ensure the circuits were wired correctly regardless of
colour.:-)


AB

On 28/01/2019 10:53, Mike Clarke wrote:

To be strictly compliant I suppose the blue and yellow conductors in the
OP's switch should have been provided with a bit of red sleeving to
indicate switched live but it's not unusual for it to be omitted.


It should have been. However on an EICR the fact that it missing is now
nothing more than a note on the report.

page 17 of this for your info.


"Departures from the requirements of the current edition of BS 7671 that
do not give rise to danger or need improvement"

https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.or...ce-guide-4.pdf




--
Adam

Tricky Dicky wrote:

If you follow the wiring diagram John pointed to in the Wiki, then the
colours are immaterial as they all end up as switched lives and both black
and grey should be sleeved brown. The only need for the colours is to
differentiate which core is which making sure the same wire connects COM
to COM, L1 to L1 and L2 to L2. The same applies if you are using the old
RYB 3 core + E.

Richard
It doesn't actually matter if L1 one switch is connected to L2 on the
other. Especially if there are intermediate switches the orientation of
the switches is unpredictable anyway. But since cable with two of the
same colour is not readily available this is an academic point.


--

Roger Hayter