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Confirm switch wiring, please
Light switch 2 gang both are 2-way.
The stair switch works ok at the top of stairs, at bottom stairs it only works dependent on the position of the upstair switch. I opened up and there appears to be a loose wire, can someone please confirm that the yellow wire is needing reconnected as per image. https://imgur.com/a/pnUTTWQ |
Confirm switch wiring, please
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 10:36:11 +0000, ss wrote:
Light switch 2 gang both are 2-way. The stair switch works ok at the top of stairs, at bottom stairs it only works dependent on the position of the upstair switch. I opened up and there appears to be a loose wire, can someone please confirm that the yellow wire is needing reconnected as per image. https://imgur.com/a/pnUTTWQ No I cannot anyway! Try prayer, or an oija board. https://circuitdigest.com/sites/defa...ire-method.png AB |
Confirm switch wiring, please
On 27/01/2019 10:36, ss wrote:
Light switch 2 gang both are 2-way. The stair switch works ok at the top of stairs, at bottom stairs it only works dependent on the position of the upstair switch. I opened up and there appears to be a loose wire, can someone please confirm that the yellow wire is needing reconnected as per image. https://imgur.com/a/pnUTTWQ Highly likely especially if there is the end of the broken wire in the terminal. |
Confirm switch wiring, please
Also of course if you get it wrong the cb will ping and there are not that
many choices to try. I know it sounds daft but one has to have fun and you have also proved the cb works as well! Brian -- ----- -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "Bob Minchin" wrote in message ... On 27/01/2019 10:36, ss wrote: Light switch 2 gang both are 2-way. The stair switch works ok at the top of stairs, at bottom stairs it only works dependent on the position of the upstair switch. I opened up and there appears to be a loose wire, can someone please confirm that the yellow wire is needing reconnected as per image. https://imgur.com/a/pnUTTWQ Highly likely especially if there is the end of the broken wire in the terminal. |
Confirm switch wiring, please
ss wrote:
Light switch 2 gang both are 2-way. The stair switch works ok at the top of stairs, at bottom stairs it only works dependent on the position of the upstair switch. I opened up and there appears to be a loose wire, can someone please confirm that the yellow wire is needing reconnected as per image. https://imgur.com/a/pnUTTWQ Yes. (With a very high degree of probability, and little chance of harm.) -- Roger Hayter |
Confirm switch wiring, please
Roger Hayter wrote:
ss wrote: Light switch 2 gang both are 2-way. The stair switch works ok at the top of stairs, at bottom stairs it only works dependent on the position of the upstair switch. I opened up and there appears to be a loose wire, can someone please confirm that the yellow wire is needing reconnected as per image. https://imgur.com/a/pnUTTWQ Yes. (With a very high degree of probability, and little chance of harm.) PS And tighten the other five terminal screws while you are there. -- Roger Hayter |
Confirm switch wiring, please
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 10:55:03 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote: Also of course if you get it wrong the cb will ping and there are not that many choices to try. I know it sounds daft but one has to have fun and you have also proved the cb works as well! Brian Er! The cables look like nothing I have seen in a 2 Way switch arrangement. The fact that one has come adrift means that the whole caboodle is suspect. A positive ID for each switch cable wouldn't take long and like PPE MCB's should be a last resort as regards safety. If an RCD or Breaker needs testing, keep it at that. Dont test one unknown against another. A pretty poor job would be to test the breaker first, then rely on it for protection. Even worse is combining the two. No short cuts I'm afraid. Get the meter out and check every terminal in the process. AB |
Confirm switch wiring, please
On Sunday, 27 January 2019 10:36:14 UTC, ss wrote:
Light switch 2 gang both are 2-way. The stair switch works ok at the top of stairs, at bottom stairs it only works dependent on the position of the upstair switch. I opened up and there appears to be a loose wire, can someone please confirm that the yellow wire is needing reconnected as per image. https://imgur.com/a/pnUTTWQ 2 way 2 gang switch requires 6 connections, the yellow coming off is certainly the most likely explanation. NT |
Confirm switch wiring, please
On 27/01/2019 11:29, wrote:
On Sunday, 27 January 2019 10:36:14 UTC, ss wrote: Light switch 2 gang both are 2-way. The stair switch works ok at the top of stairs, at bottom stairs it only works dependent on the position of the upstair switch. I opened up and there appears to be a loose wire, can someone please confirm that the yellow wire is needing reconnected as per image. https://imgur.com/a/pnUTTWQ 2 way 2 gang switch requires 6 connections, the yellow coming off is certainly the most likely explanation. NT OK now sorted and switch working ok now, it was the yellow wire come loose. |
Confirm switch wiring, please
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 11:17:45 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote: If it was working the chances are that it was OK just strange wire or whatever. Why look for trouble above that which presents itself. Brian In my early days I ran an MOD NAMAS accredited calibration department. I used to do audits on the work and being as "hands on" as the rest of the staff, it was more than just a paperwork excercise. "insignificant problems" like a screw missing or dessicant that was past it's best were not in themselves problems. The case would be secure, the odd bit of damp would have no effect in a lot of the gear. Those little problems were often very good indicators of something more serious because the shortcuts would appear in the critical areas also. The solution, rejection and a full recal. A philosophy that has served me very well over the years and prevented many serious failiures in my other jobs. I have yet to see anything wrong with my approach. Some work is shoddy and potentially hazardous because of the location of the wiring I recently found a lghting cable twisted together and insulated with Silicone rubber. There were other problems with the same system so it wasn't too much of a surprise. Removing the plasterboard ceiling to find it wasn't with the intention of investigating the cable though, it was for a totally different reason. My risk assessment of the system did not conclude that removing a ceiling under a flat roof was going to be worthwhile. The risks were low, but who's to know what load of flammables might have been left in the recess. AB |
Confirm switch wiring, please
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 11:32:36 +0000, ss wrote:
On 27/01/2019 11:29, wrote: On Sunday, 27 January 2019 10:36:14 UTC, ss wrote: Light switch 2 gang both are 2-way. The stair switch works ok at the top of stairs, at bottom stairs it only works dependent on the position of the upstair switch. I opened up and there appears to be a loose wire, can someone please confirm that the yellow wire is needing reconnected as per image. https://imgur.com/a/pnUTTWQ 2 way 2 gang switch requires 6 connections, the yellow coming off is certainly the most likely explanation. NT OK now sorted and switch working ok now, it was the yellow wire come loose. You are not concerned as to why? The yellow wire was just sitting in a light switch back box, perfectly sound doing it's job, then one day it falls out. I must have missed the acceptable time period requirements for cable retention when I did the 17th :-) AB |
Confirm switch wiring, please
On 27/01/2019 10:46, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 10:36:11 +0000, ss wrote: Light switch 2 gang both are 2-way. The stair switch works ok at the top of stairs, at bottom stairs it only works dependent on the position of the upstair switch. I opened up and there appears to be a loose wire, can someone please confirm that the yellow wire is needing reconnected as per image. https://imgur.com/a/pnUTTWQ No I cannot anyway! Try prayer, or an oija board. https://circuitdigest.com/sites/defa...ire-method.png That is a deprecated way of wiring a two way switched system, and also as evidenced from the use of 3&E in the OPs photo, not what is being used here. The more appropriate diagram would be the second one in this section: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...tching_circuit -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Confirm switch wiring, please
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 14:15:40 +0000, John Rumm
wrote: On 27/01/2019 10:46, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote: On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 10:36:11 +0000, ss wrote: Light switch 2 gang both are 2-way. The stair switch works ok at the top of stairs, at bottom stairs it only works dependent on the position of the upstair switch. I opened up and there appears to be a loose wire, can someone please confirm that the yellow wire is needing reconnected as per image. https://imgur.com/a/pnUTTWQ No I cannot anyway! Try prayer, or an oija board. https://circuitdigest.com/sites/defa...ire-method.png That is a deprecated way of wiring a two way switched system, and also as evidenced from the use of 3&E in the OPs photo, not what is being used here. The more appropriate diagram would be the second one in this section: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...tching_circuit Hard to say how it is wired, I have never seen yellow used in a lighting circuit, I can only assume the cable was left over after some ancient three phase control project. The piccy strongly suggests further investigation is needed, not just stick the wire in what looks like an appropriate hole and screw it up. DIY or professional, there should be no uncertainties with electrical power. AB |
Confirm switch wiring, please
In article ,
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote: Hard to say how it is wired, I have never seen yellow used in a lighting circuit, I can only assume the cable was left over after some ancient three phase control project. Triple and earth is often used domestically. Two way lighting circuits and thermostats. Two lighting circuits on the same switch to the same room, and so on. Anywhere where it is more economical. -- *Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Confirm switch wiring, please
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 11:32:36 +0000, ss wrote: On 27/01/2019 11:29, wrote: On Sunday, 27 January 2019 10:36:14 UTC, ss wrote: Light switch 2 gang both are 2-way. The stair switch works ok at the top of stairs, at bottom stairs it only works dependent on the position of the upstair switch. I opened up and there appears to be a loose wire, can someone please confirm that the yellow wire is needing reconnected as per image. https://imgur.com/a/pnUTTWQ 2 way 2 gang switch requires 6 connections, the yellow coming off is certainly the most likely explanation. NT OK now sorted and switch working ok now, it was the yellow wire come loose. You are not concerned as to why? The yellow wire was just sitting in a light switch back box, perfectly sound doing it's job, then one day it falls out. I must have missed the acceptable time period requirements for cable retention when I did the 17th :-) AB The wiring regs certainly envisage screw terminals failing, and don't seem to mandate cable retention in light switches at all. The contact failed because either; - it was never screwed up properly (and this would not stop it working for an uncertain period); - vibration from switching caused the screw to unscrew; - or the copper gradually deformed under pressure; The wire fell out when the switch was opened for examination. Nothing out of the ordinary. -- Roger Hayter |
Confirm switch wiring, please
In article ,
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote: On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 14:15:40 +0000, John Rumm wrote: On 27/01/2019 10:46, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote: On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 10:36:11 +0000, ss wrote: Light switch 2 gang both are 2-way. The stair switch works ok at the top of stairs, at bottom stairs it only works dependent on the position of the upstair switch. I opened up and there appears to be a loose wire, can someone please confirm that the yellow wire is needing reconnected as per image. https://imgur.com/a/pnUTTWQ No I cannot anyway! Try prayer, or an oija board. https://circuitdigest.com/sites/defa...ire-method.png That is a deprecated way of wiring a two way switched system, and also as evidenced from the use of 3&E in the OPs photo, not what is being used here. The more appropriate diagram would be the second one in this section: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...tching_circuit Hard to say how it is wired, I have never seen yellow used in a lighting circuit, I can only assume the cable was left over after some ancient three phase control project. the three core (+ECC) cable I bought in about 1980 (for 2way switching of lights) certainly had yellow as one of its cores. Blue & white for the other two. -- from KT24 in Surrey, England "I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle |
Confirm switch wiring, please
In article ,
Roger Hayter wrote: Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote: On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 11:32:36 +0000, ss wrote: On 27/01/2019 11:29, wrote: On Sunday, 27 January 2019 10:36:14 UTC, ss wrote: Light switch 2 gang both are 2-way. The stair switch works ok at the top of stairs, at bottom stairs it only works dependent on the position of the upstair switch. I opened up and there appears to be a loose wire, can someone please confirm that the yellow wire is needing reconnected as per image. https://imgur.com/a/pnUTTWQ 2 way 2 gang switch requires 6 connections, the yellow coming off is certainly the most likely explanation. NT OK now sorted and switch working ok now, it was the yellow wire come loose. You are not concerned as to why? The yellow wire was just sitting in a light switch back box, perfectly sound doing it's job, then one day it falls out. I must have missed the acceptable time period requirements for cable retention when I did the 17th :-) AB The wiring regs certainly envisage screw terminals failing, and don't seem to mandate cable retention in light switches at all. The contact failed because either; - it was never screwed up properly (and this would not stop it working for an uncertain period); met this in our village hall - a professional installation - vibration from switching caused the screw to unscrew; met this at home -- from KT24 in Surrey, England "I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle |
Confirm switch wiring, please
It happens that Roger Hayter formulated :
The contact failed because either; - it was never screwed up properly (and this would not stop it working for an uncertain period); - vibration from switching caused the screw to unscrew; - or the copper gradually deformed under pressure; It looks to me as if the copper core failed and snapped, leaving the copper part still in the terminal. Possibly the installer nicked the copper as he stripped the insulation and it subsequently snapped. Poor or careless technique. |
Confirm switch wiring, please
The wire fell out when the switch was opened for examination. Nothing out of the ordinary. Methinks your approach to electrical work is fundamentally flawed if you consider cables falling out an "ordinary" event. AB |
Confirm switch wiring, please
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 17:35:06 GMT, Harry Bloomfield
wrote: It happens that Roger Hayter formulated : The contact failed because either; - it was never screwed up properly (and this would not stop it working for an uncertain period); - vibration from switching caused the screw to unscrew; - or the copper gradually deformed under pressure; It looks to me as if the copper core failed and snapped, leaving the copper part still in the terminal. Possibly the installer nicked the copper as he stripped the insulation and it subsequently snapped. Poor or careless technique. Probably repeated in other parts of the installation. AB |
Confirm switch wiring, please
"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in message ... On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 11:17:45 -0000, "Brian Gaff" wrote: If it was working the chances are that it was OK just strange wire or whatever. Why look for trouble above that which presents itself. Brian In my early days I ran an MOD NAMAS accredited calibration department. I used to do audits on the work and being as "hands on" as the rest of the staff, it was more than just a paperwork excercise. "insignificant problems" like a screw missing or dessicant that was past it's best were not in themselves problems. The case would be secure, the odd bit of damp would have no effect in a lot of the gear. Those little problems were often very good indicators of something more serious because the shortcuts would appear in the critical areas also. The solution, rejection and a full recal. A philosophy that has served me very well over the years and prevented many serious failiures in my other jobs. I have yet to see anything wrong with my approach. Yes, you actually are that stupid. His setup does require 6 wires and clearly the yellow wire had come adrift and all it needed was to put it back where it had come out of. Some work is shoddy and potentially hazardous because of the location of the wiring I recently found a lghting cable twisted together and insulated with Silicone rubber. There were other problems with the same system so it wasn't too much of a surprise. Removing the plasterboard ceiling to find it wasn't with the intention of investigating the cable though, it was for a totally different reason. My risk assessment of the system did not conclude that removing a ceiling under a flat roof was going to be worthwhile. In his case there is nothing like that, just one terminal not fully screwed in. The risks were low, but who's to know what load of flammables might have been left in the recess. Yeah, best to demolish the house and start again on a bare block of land. |
Confirm switch wiring, please
"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in message ... On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 11:32:36 +0000, ss wrote: On 27/01/2019 11:29, wrote: On Sunday, 27 January 2019 10:36:14 UTC, ss wrote: Light switch 2 gang both are 2-way. The stair switch works ok at the top of stairs, at bottom stairs it only works dependent on the position of the upstair switch. I opened up and there appears to be a loose wire, can someone please confirm that the yellow wire is needing reconnected as per image. https://imgur.com/a/pnUTTWQ 2 way 2 gang switch requires 6 connections, the yellow coming off is certainly the most likely explanation. NT OK now sorted and switch working ok now, it was the yellow wire come loose. You are not concerned as to why? The yellow wire was just sitting in a light switch back box, perfectly sound doing it's job, then one day it falls out. Because that screw had not been fully tightened initially. I must have missed the acceptable time period requirements for cable retention when I did the 17th :-) |
Confirm switch wiring, please
On 27/01/2019 17:35, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
It happens that Roger Hayter formulated : The contact failed because either; - it was never screwed up properly (and this would not stop it working for an uncertain* period); - vibration from switching caused the screw to unscrew; - or the copper gradually deformed under pressure; It looks to me as if the copper core failed and snapped, leaving the copper part still in the terminal. Possibly the installer nicked the copper as he stripped the insulation and it subsequently snapped. Poor or careless technique. Which is what I think has happened, I have checked others at various times when decorating and always make sure the screws are tight. Other than that I leave things as they are. The wiring is probably original from the late 80s when the house was built. |
Confirm switch wiring, please
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 05:40:06 +1100, "Steven" wrote:
"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in message ... On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 11:17:45 -0000, "Brian Gaff" wrote: If it was working the chances are that it was OK just strange wire or whatever. Why look for trouble above that which presents itself. Brian In my early days I ran an MOD NAMAS accredited calibration department. I used to do audits on the work and being as "hands on" as the rest of the staff, it was more than just a paperwork excercise. "insignificant problems" like a screw missing or dessicant that was past it's best were not in themselves problems. The case would be secure, the odd bit of damp would have no effect in a lot of the gear. Those little problems were often very good indicators of something more serious because the shortcuts would appear in the critical areas also. The solution, rejection and a full recal. A philosophy that has served me very well over the years and prevented many serious failiures in my other jobs. I have yet to see anything wrong with my approach. Yes, you actually are that stupid. His setup does require 6 wires and clearly the yellow wire had come adrift and all it needed was to put it back where it had come out of. Some work is shoddy At least you do seem to have a level of awareness. Shoddy work can lead to unreliability and danger. There are acceptable standards to any job, there are no excuses for not adhering to them. and potentially hazardous because of the location of the wiring I recently found a lghting cable twisted together and insulated with Silicone rubber. There were other problems with the same system so it wasn't too much of a surprise. Removing the plasterboard ceiling to find it wasn't with the intention of investigating the cable though, it was for a totally different reason. My risk assessment of the system did not conclude that removing a ceiling under a flat roof was going to be worthwhile. In his case there is nothing like that, just one terminal not fully screwed in. If it was a quality job, all the terminals would not be screwed in. As only one terminal is unscrewed in the system, are we to assume that Schrodingers pussy tipped the balance? Quality job or not, every part of that circuit would be checked were I to have responsibility for the property or work. The risks were low, but who's to know what load of flammables might have been left in the recess. Yeah, best to demolish the house and start again on a bare block of land. What makes you say that? It's just exaggeration, which is another word for lying. Are you a Brexiter? AB |
Confirm switch wiring, please
On 27/01/2019 18:40, Steven wrote:
"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in message ... On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 11:17:45 -0000, "Brian Gaff" wrote: If it was working the chances are that it was OK just strange wire or whatever. Why look for trouble above that which presents itself. Brian In my early days I ran an MOD NAMAS accredited calibration department. I used to do audits on the work and being as "hands on" as the rest of the staff, it was more than just a paperwork excercise. "insignificant problems" like a screw missing or dessicant that was past it's best were not in themselves problems. The case would be secure, the odd bit of damp would have no effect in a lot of the gear. Those little problems were often very good indicators of something more serious because the shortcuts would appear in the critical areas also. The solution, rejection and a full recal. A philosophy that has served me very well over the years and prevented many serious failiures in my other jobs. I have yet to see anything wrong with my approach. Yes, you actually are that stupid. His setup does require 6 wires and clearly the yellow wire had come adrift and all it needed was to put it back where it had come out of. Some work is shoddy and potentially hazardous because of the location of the wiring I recently found a lghting cable twisted together and insulated with Silicone rubber. There were other problems with the same system so it wasn't too much of a surprise. Removing the plasterboard ceiling to find it wasn't with the intention of investigating the cable though, it was for a totally different reason. My risk assessment of the system did not conclude that removing a ceiling under a flat roof was going to be worthwhile. In his case there is nothing like that, just one terminal not fully screwed in. The risks were low, but who's to know what load of flammables might have been left in the recess. Yeah, best to demolish the house and start again on a bare block of land. I can well imagine AB sucking teeth, shaking head, and advising homeowner that he really needs to inspect every connection in every switch, socket etc in the the house else there's a risk of the entire household (and the neighbours too if there's gas in use) suffering a fatal accident. -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
Confirm switch wiring, please
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 18:57:00 +0000, Robin wrote:
On 27/01/2019 18:40, Steven wrote: "Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in message ... On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 11:17:45 -0000, "Brian Gaff" wrote: If it was working the chances are that it was OK just strange wire or whatever. Why look for trouble above that which presents itself. Brian In my early days I ran an MOD NAMAS accredited calibration department. I used to do audits on the work and being as "hands on" as the rest of the staff, it was more than just a paperwork excercise. "insignificant problems" like a screw missing or dessicant that was past it's best were not in themselves problems. The case would be secure, the odd bit of damp would have no effect in a lot of the gear. Those little problems were often very good indicators of something more serious because the shortcuts would appear in the critical areas also. The solution, rejection and a full recal. A philosophy that has served me very well over the years and prevented many serious failiures in my other jobs. I have yet to see anything wrong with my approach. Yes, you actually are that stupid. His setup does require 6 wires and clearly the yellow wire had come adrift and all it needed was to put it back where it had come out of. Some work is shoddy and potentially hazardous because of the location of the wiring I recently found a lghting cable twisted together and insulated with Silicone rubber. There were other problems with the same system so it wasn't too much of a surprise. Removing the plasterboard ceiling to find it wasn't with the intention of investigating the cable though, it was for a totally different reason. My risk assessment of the system did not conclude that removing a ceiling under a flat roof was going to be worthwhile. In his case there is nothing like that, just one terminal not fully screwed in. The risks were low, but who's to know what load of flammables might have been left in the recess. Yeah, best to demolish the house and start again on a bare block of land. I can well imagine AB sucking teeth, shaking head, and advising homeowner that he really needs to inspect every connection in every switch, socket etc in the the house else there's a risk of the entire household (and the neighbours too if there's gas in use) suffering a fatal accident. I didn't say that. Try to keep to the thread. AB |
Confirm switch wiring, please
"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in message ... On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 14:15:40 +0000, John Rumm wrote: On 27/01/2019 10:46, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote: On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 10:36:11 +0000, ss wrote: Light switch 2 gang both are 2-way. The stair switch works ok at the top of stairs, at bottom stairs it only works dependent on the position of the upstair switch. I opened up and there appears to be a loose wire, can someone please confirm that the yellow wire is needing reconnected as per image. https://imgur.com/a/pnUTTWQ No I cannot anyway! Try prayer, or an oija board. https://circuitdigest.com/sites/defa...ire-method.png That is a deprecated way of wiring a two way switched system, and also as evidenced from the use of 3&E in the OPs photo, not what is being used here. The more appropriate diagram would be the second one in this section: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...tching_circuit Hard to say how it is wired, But it is clear that 6 wires are involved, so it can't be your config. I have never seen yellow used in a lighting circuit, I can only assume the cable was left over after some ancient three phase control project. The piccy strongly suggests further investigation is needed, not just stick the wire in what looks like an appropriate hole and screw it up. Not when there are 6 wires involved, a common config used in that situation. DIY or professional, there should be no uncertainties with electrical power. There isnt when there are clearly 6 wires involved and one of them has clearly come adrift from where it would be in a 6 wire config. |
Confirm switch wiring, please
On 27/01/2019 11:13, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 10:55:03 -0000, "Brian Gaff" wrote: Also of course if you get it wrong the cb will ping and there are not that many choices to try. I know it sounds daft but one has to have fun and you have also proved the cb works as well! Brian Er! The cables look like nothing I have seen in a 2 Way switch arrangement. But they look like 50% of the thousands of two way switches I have seen. -- Adam |
Confirm switch wiring, please
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 06:07:06 +1100, "Steven" wrote:
"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in message ... On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 14:15:40 +0000, John Rumm wrote: On 27/01/2019 10:46, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote: On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 10:36:11 +0000, ss wrote: Light switch 2 gang both are 2-way. The stair switch works ok at the top of stairs, at bottom stairs it only works dependent on the position of the upstair switch. I opened up and there appears to be a loose wire, can someone please confirm that the yellow wire is needing reconnected as per image. https://imgur.com/a/pnUTTWQ No I cannot anyway! Try prayer, or an oija board. https://circuitdigest.com/sites/defa...ire-method.png That is a deprecated way of wiring a two way switched system, and also as evidenced from the use of 3&E in the OPs photo, not what is being used here. The more appropriate diagram would be the second one in this section: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...tching_circuit Hard to say how it is wired, But it is clear that 6 wires are involved, so it can't be your config. I have never seen yellow used in a lighting circuit, I can only assume the cable was left over after some ancient three phase control project. The piccy strongly suggests further investigation is needed, not just stick the wire in what looks like an appropriate hole and screw it up. Not when there are 6 wires involved, a common config used in that situation. DIY or professional, there should be no uncertainties with electrical power. There isnt when there are clearly 6 wires involved and one of them has clearly come adrift from where it would be in a 6 wire config. Er, sorry I didn't think it necessary to explain. One two way switch = 3 wires Two two way switches = six wires, or maybe five and a link. Anyway if I'm forgiven for my overestimation of your abilities perhaps you would care to use this. http://www.math.com/students/calcula...urce/basic.htm AB |
Confirm switch wiring, please
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 19:09:45 +0000, ARW
wrote: On 27/01/2019 11:13, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote: On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 10:55:03 -0000, "Brian Gaff" wrote: Also of course if you get it wrong the cb will ping and there are not that many choices to try. I know it sounds daft but one has to have fun and you have also proved the cb works as well! Brian Er! The cables look like nothing I have seen in a 2 Way switch arrangement. But they look like 50% of the thousands of two way switches I have seen. RGB? Ones exposure to domestic wiring is a trifle limited, but I have not come across those colours in a home before. Whatever the colour, cables do not just "drop out". AB |
Confirm switch wiring, please
On 27/01/2019 19:20, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 19:09:45 +0000, ARW wrote: On 27/01/2019 11:13, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote: On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 10:55:03 -0000, "Brian Gaff" wrote: Also of course if you get it wrong the cb will ping and there are not that many choices to try. I know it sounds daft but one has to have fun and you have also proved the cb works as well! Brian Er! The cables look like nothing I have seen in a 2 Way switch arrangement. But they look like 50% of the thousands of two way switches I have seen. RGB? Ones exposure to domestic wiring is a trifle limited, but I have not come across those colours in a home before. Whatever the colour, cables do not just "drop out". RYB. I did not watch them on TV. -- Adam |
Confirm switch wiring, please
"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in message ... On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 17:35:06 GMT, Harry Bloomfield wrote: It happens that Roger Hayter formulated : The contact failed because either; - it was never screwed up properly (and this would not stop it working for an uncertain period); - vibration from switching caused the screw to unscrew; - or the copper gradually deformed under pressure; It looks to me as if the copper core failed and snapped, leaving the copper part still in the terminal. Possibly the installer nicked the copper as he stripped the insulation and it subsequently snapped. Poor or careless technique. Probably repeated in other parts of the installation. But it isn't actually viable to completely redo all the terminals in the entire house now. Given that the wiring standards are fail safe by design, it make more sense to fix any others that do fail when they do. |
Confirm switch wiring, please
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 19:36:25 +0000, ARW
wrote: On 27/01/2019 19:20, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote: On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 19:09:45 +0000, ARW wrote: On 27/01/2019 11:13, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote: On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 10:55:03 -0000, "Brian Gaff" wrote: Also of course if you get it wrong the cb will ping and there are not that many choices to try. I know it sounds daft but one has to have fun and you have also proved the cb works as well! Brian Er! The cables look like nothing I have seen in a 2 Way switch arrangement. But they look like 50% of the thousands of two way switches I have seen. RGB? Ones exposure to domestic wiring is a trifle limited, but I have not come across those colours in a home before. Whatever the colour, cables do not just "drop out". RYB. I did not watch them on TV. I stand corrected. Apologies, although I must admit I saw the insides of a lot more TV sets than light switches :-) What happens if the phases are switched, does the room go darker in the daytime? AB |
Confirm switch wiring, please
"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in message ... On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 05:40:06 +1100, "Steven" wrote: "Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in message ... On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 11:17:45 -0000, "Brian Gaff" wrote: If it was working the chances are that it was OK just strange wire or whatever. Why look for trouble above that which presents itself. Brian In my early days I ran an MOD NAMAS accredited calibration department. I used to do audits on the work and being as "hands on" as the rest of the staff, it was more than just a paperwork excercise. "insignificant problems" like a screw missing or dessicant that was past it's best were not in themselves problems. The case would be secure, the odd bit of damp would have no effect in a lot of the gear. Those little problems were often very good indicators of something more serious because the shortcuts would appear in the critical areas also. The solution, rejection and a full recal. A philosophy that has served me very well over the years and prevented many serious failiures in my other jobs. I have yet to see anything wrong with my approach. Yes, you actually are that stupid. His setup does require 6 wires and clearly the yellow wire had come adrift and all it needed was to put it back where it had come out of. Some work is shoddy At least you do seem to have a level of awareness. Shoddy work can lead to unreliability and danger. There are acceptable standards to any job, there are no excuses for not adhering to them. and potentially hazardous because of the location of the wiring I recently found a lghting cable twisted together and insulated with Silicone rubber. There were other problems with the same system so it wasn't too much of a surprise. Removing the plasterboard ceiling to find it wasn't with the intention of investigating the cable though, it was for a totally different reason. My risk assessment of the system did not conclude that removing a ceiling under a flat roof was going to be worthwhile. In his case there is nothing like that, just one terminal not fully screwed in. If it was a quality job, all the terminals would not be screwed in. As only one terminal is unscrewed in the system, are we to assume that Schrodingers pussy tipped the balance? Quality job or not, every part of that circuit would be checked were I to have responsibility for the property or work. Yes, you actually are stupid enough to redo every single termination in the entire house to ensure that no other wire was nicked at installation. The risks were low, but who's to know what load of flammables might have been left in the recess. Yeah, best to demolish the house and start again on a bare block of land. What makes you say that? It's just exaggeration, which is another word for lying. Are you a Brexiter? AB |
Confirm switch wiring, please
"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in message ... On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 18:57:00 +0000, Robin wrote: On 27/01/2019 18:40, Steven wrote: "Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in message ... On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 11:17:45 -0000, "Brian Gaff" wrote: If it was working the chances are that it was OK just strange wire or whatever. Why look for trouble above that which presents itself. Brian In my early days I ran an MOD NAMAS accredited calibration department. I used to do audits on the work and being as "hands on" as the rest of the staff, it was more than just a paperwork excercise. "insignificant problems" like a screw missing or dessicant that was past it's best were not in themselves problems. The case would be secure, the odd bit of damp would have no effect in a lot of the gear. Those little problems were often very good indicators of something more serious because the shortcuts would appear in the critical areas also. The solution, rejection and a full recal. A philosophy that has served me very well over the years and prevented many serious failiures in my other jobs. I have yet to see anything wrong with my approach. Yes, you actually are that stupid. His setup does require 6 wires and clearly the yellow wire had come adrift and all it needed was to put it back where it had come out of. Some work is shoddy and potentially hazardous because of the location of the wiring I recently found a lghting cable twisted together and insulated with Silicone rubber. There were other problems with the same system so it wasn't too much of a surprise. Removing the plasterboard ceiling to find it wasn't with the intention of investigating the cable though, it was for a totally different reason. My risk assessment of the system did not conclude that removing a ceiling under a flat roof was going to be worthwhile. In his case there is nothing like that, just one terminal not fully screwed in. The risks were low, but who's to know what load of flammables might have been left in the recess. Yeah, best to demolish the house and start again on a bare block of land. I can well imagine AB sucking teeth, shaking head, and advising homeowner that he really needs to inspect every connection in every switch, socket etc in the the house else there's a risk of the entire household (and the neighbours too if there's gas in use) suffering a fatal accident. I didn't say that. Yes you did, just a moment ago, to me. Quality job or not, every part of that circuit would be checked were I to have responsibility for the property or work. And don't try claiming that that says circuit, because the same argument applies to every circuit in the entire house. |
Confirm switch wiring, please
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
The wire fell out when the switch was opened for examination. Nothing out of the ordinary. Methinks your approach to electrical work is fundamentally flawed if you consider cables falling out an "ordinary" event. AB I hope none of the high-integrity equipment you inspected contained screw terminals. They are not reliable. -- Roger Hayter |
Confirm switch wiring, please
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 06:43:14 +1100, "Steven" wrote:
"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in message ... On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 17:35:06 GMT, Harry Bloomfield wrote: It happens that Roger Hayter formulated : The contact failed because either; - it was never screwed up properly (and this would not stop it working for an uncertain period); - vibration from switching caused the screw to unscrew; - or the copper gradually deformed under pressure; It looks to me as if the copper core failed and snapped, leaving the copper part still in the terminal. Possibly the installer nicked the copper as he stripped the insulation and it subsequently snapped. Poor or careless technique. Probably repeated in other parts of the installation. But it isn't actually viable to completely redo all the terminals in the entire house now. Given that the wiring standards are fail safe by design, it make more sense to fix any others that do fail when they do. You steamin' great pillock! Fail safe by design?? No such bloody thing unless you are working to ATEX standards. Have you seen a glass rod conduct electricity to the point where it melts and arcs. Have you examined insulation that has been drenched and suddenly become conductive. Wothout an earth path the MCB has no clue whether the couple of kW is a genuine heating element or a L-N leakage path. Likewise although a switch alone is perfectly capable of providing an audio visual indication of a gas build up, a loose connection will give the indication a lot earlier and with a higher level of success. AB |
Confirm switch wiring, please
|
Confirm switch wiring, please
"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in message ... On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 06:43:14 +1100, "Steven" wrote: "Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in message ... On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 17:35:06 GMT, Harry Bloomfield wrote: It happens that Roger Hayter formulated : The contact failed because either; - it was never screwed up properly (and this would not stop it working for an uncertain period); - vibration from switching caused the screw to unscrew; - or the copper gradually deformed under pressure; It looks to me as if the copper core failed and snapped, leaving the copper part still in the terminal. Possibly the installer nicked the copper as he stripped the insulation and it subsequently snapped. Poor or careless technique. Probably repeated in other parts of the installation. But it isn't actually viable to completely redo all the terminals in the entire house now. Given that the wiring standards are fail safe by design, it make more sense to fix any others that do fail when they do. You steamin' great pillock! Fail safe by design?? No such bloody thing unless you are working to ATEX standards. Have you seen a glass rod conduct electricity to the point where it melts and arcs. Doesn't happen in the sort of house the fault was in. Have you examined insulation that has been drenched and suddenly become conductive. The RCBO system fails safe in that situation. Wothout an earth path the MCB has no clue whether the couple of kW is a genuine heating element or a L-N leakage path. Isnt going to happen with that 2 way light switch circuit. Likewise although a switch alone is perfectly capable of providing an audio visual indication of a gas build up, a loose connection will give the indication a lot earlier and with a higher level of success. Yeah, yeah, the entire house should be completely rewired now that that one wire was clearly not as competently done as it should have been. Easy to see why no one would employ you in britain and you had to move to ireland and then even they noticed how unemployable you are. |
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